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*** UPDATE 1 *** From the DSCC…
IS ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF MARK KIRK’S MOUTH THE TRUTH?
Kirk’s Embellishments, Lies, And Misstatements Could Fill A Phone Book
Illinois Voters Deserve Someone Who They Can Trust To Tell The Truth
Republican Congressman Mark Kirk, already under fire for embellishing details of his military and teaching records, found himself on the front page of the Chicago Tribune this morning, in an startling piece calling into question even further Kirk’s uncomfortable relationship with the truth. As the paper reported, Kirk repeatedly speaks of an incident in his youth, when a boat he was piloting capsized in Lake Michigan and was subsequently rescued by the Coast Guard. However, Kirk’s account of the story has changed over time and has been “embellished” frequently, to the point where Kirk’s account contradicts those of other bystanders and even contradicts the facts of medical science.
“Kirk’s embellishments, lies, and misstatements could fill a phone book,” said Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee Communications Director Eric Schultz. “Mark Kirk may be on the wrong side of nearly every issue but he also has an aversion to telling the truth. The people of Illinois deserve a Senator who they can trust to always be honest.”
*** UPDATE 2 *** From the Giannoulias campaign…
In light of today’s story in Chicago Tribune regarding Mark Kirk’s latest embellishment, Alexi for Illinois spokesman Matt McGrath released the following statement:
“Now Congressman Kirk has been caught in another embellishment — this time an apparent fish story that was his basis for going into public service in the first place. Whether he’s lying about his military record or claiming to be a fiscal conservative when his votes helped triple the national debt, one thing is clear: Congressman Kirk apparently can’t tell the truth about anything.”
* I highly recommend that you read the entire Tribune article about Congressman Mark Kirk today. He has obviously embellished his core story about why he decided to pursue a career in public service. Kirk has claimed from the time he first ran for Congress that being saved from drowning by the Coast Guard when he was a teenager changed his entire life.
It’s not a comfortable read at all, but it’s an absolute must-read. Excerpts…
In the most recent instance, the 50-year-old North Shore congressman told a boating magazine that he stood on his overturned sailboat and watched the sun set, when in fact he was rescued in midafternoon on June 15, 1976.
Kirk also has said he swam up to a mile in 42-degree water and that he was rescued with his body temperature hovering two degrees from death. Those declarations are questionable, based on interviews with an eyewitness and medical experts.
Those declarations aren’t just “questionable,” they sound impossible.
And he doesn’t just mention the darkness. It’s an important element to his story…
In the story, Kirk twice refers to being on the water as darkness fell.
“I lost the halyard and ended up watching the sunset standing on the upside-down boat with only a ski belt on,” Kirk said, according to the quote in the story and the recording Landry played for the Tribune.
Kirk also noted a teenager on shore saw him struggling with the sailboat and called for help. “It was unusual because Sunfishes come home at night and this one wasn’t,” Kirk told the magazine.
And this is the most telling aspect of the Tribune piece. Kirk has to retract when he realizes the interview was recorded…
Pressed on the timing of the rescue, Kirk told the Tribune the magazine reporter must have made a mistake. Informed the interview was recorded, Kirk then said he did not watch the sunset but denied embellishing his story.
I’d be interested to know how much time transpired between those two statements. Seconds? Days?
Anyway, go read the whole thing.
…Adding… I just noticed a private e-mail from someone high up in the Kirk campaign. He claims statements and information the campaign provided weren’t included. Stay tuned.
…Adding more… Apparently, Kirk told the Tribune that he helped his friend swim to shore after the boat first capsized. He was on a private beach and decided he needed to go back out to the boat to avoid getting into trouble (he was 16, so that’s understandable) and that’s where the problems started.
Kirk has posted a statement on his campaign website…
“Over 30 years ago, when I was 16 years old, I nearly drowned in Lake Michigan and was rescued by the Coast Guard. It was a life-changing experience. Multiple statements by eyewitnesses confirm my rescue. It’s unfortunate that some reporters had a pre-conceived premise that led to a ridiculous story about an event that is indisputable. Voters will see this story for what it is and I will continue to focus on the issues that matter and how I will serve the people of Illinois.”
Statement by his mother…
In the afternoon of June 15, 1976, I received a phone call from Evanston Hospital letting me know that my son, Mark, was in the Emergency Room. He had been rescued by the Coast Guard in Lake Michigan and was being treated for hypothermia.
When I got to Evanston Hospital, I saw my son in a hospital bed under a special warming blanket. His lips were blue. I had never seen that before. I remember his body temperature was in the 80s and they were slowly bringing him back up.
I stayed there, watching his color return to his lips and body. Later in the day, he was discharged and sent home. Mark’s father, Frank, was working downtown at the time and took an afternoon Metra to meet us. I remember Frank was very upset, saying again and again to Mark: You never leave the boat.
As a mother, this was a traumatic experience. It was a life-changing event for Mark and for our entire family.
Statement by his friend who was out on the boat with him…
In the early afternoon of June 15, 1976, I left Kenilworth Beach in a sunfish sailboat with my high school best friend, Mark Kirk, for an afternoon sail in Lake Michigan.
I learned a lot that day – about the unpredictability of weather and about the fragility of life.
During our sail, the weather turned and we encountered what I would describe as a squall. At some point, our sailboat capsized and we entered the cold water. Mark acted quickly to stabilize the boat and brought us to safety at a beach along the Winnetka shore.
Mark was concerned for my safety, and after warming up on the beach he urged me to walk home while he would get the sunfish back to Kenilworth.
I protested but Mark refused to let me go with him. I walked home and Mark took care of the boat.
A couple of hours later, I was in the Emergency Room at Evanston Hospital. I saw Mark under warming blankets – I remember his body temperature being roughly 89 degrees at the time. It was about an hour after he arrived in the Emergency Room and he was speaking gibberish.
It was a life-changing experience. At that moment, I realized we are not immortal – life is fragile at any age.
Later on, I remember recounting the experience with Mark. He told me how he thought he was going to die and had given up just before his rescue.
This was a major event in both of our lives – one I will never forget.
Statement about hypothermia…
Centers for Disease Control: Moderate hypothermia is diagnosed when the core body temperature is 82-90 degrees Fahrenheit.
Princeton University: 86-82 degrees – Symptoms: Muscle rigidity; semiconscious; stupor; loss of awareness of others; pulse and respiration rate decrease; possible heart fibrillation.
Statement by Dr. Jay Alexander
It is completely preposterous for anyone to say they can prove or disprove what Mark Kirk’s body temperature was on June 15, 1976 without knowing detailed statistics, including Mr. Kirk’s exact body mass index at the time, his exact time in the water, the exact temperature of the water, the exact weight and type of clothing Mr. Kirk was wearing, the exact wind speeds and air temperatures throughout the experience and the vigor and duration of any activity conducted by Mr. Kirk in the water. Body temperature reflects a balance between heat production and heat loss both of which would be almost impossible to predict without a detailed knowledge of all the factors and events that took place that day and short of having all of these facts certain or an official medical document from 1976, there’s no credible scientist or physician who could speak with certainty on this matter.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:01 am
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Wow is there a life story he hasn’t embellished on???
Comment by Donald Wareham Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:10 am
If he would just be understated in his life story, he would stay one up on Alexi.
Comment by flabergasted Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:20 am
Sounds kinda like Hillary and the snipers firing at her.
Comment by Bosco Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:25 am
It’s downright pathological at this point. JFK had some good writers puff up his PT 109 story a bit, but c’mon. This is ridiculous.
No one has ever called him on any of this before, I guess he figured no one ever would. Oops.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:41 am
Um, a Sunfish sailboat can’t sink, and if it capsizes, you can right it by just putting your weight on the daggerboard. It pops right back up, unless you have buried the mast tip into a mud bank. To do that means you are in less than 15 feet of water, meaning, you are by definition just off shore. It is about as idiot-proof a boat as you can find. Part of the fun of Sunfish sailing is deliberately dunking the boat to cool off on a hot day. If Kirk lost the halyard, (the rope that controls raising the sail) , he could have just pulled the mast out of it’s hole and paddled or kicked the boat to shore, like it was a surfboard.
What I get from the Kirk evolving story thing is that this is a guy that likes drama and has an inferiority complex. The plain truth is never enough for Kirk, everything has to be embellished a tad. If he loses his race, it’s because he can’t be happy being who he already is.
Comment by Sunfish sailor Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:48 am
Please let us have a primary do-over, please please just this once!
Comment by Excessively Rabid Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:48 am
I fail to see how this needs a huge exposé like this. When I was 14 or 15, I was on a flight that had to be diverted because one of the engines failed. This scared the daylights out of me, but it is what got me interested in aviation. I’d better not run for office, because the Tribune might find out that I was actually 13 and the plane was a DC9 not an MD80!
Comment by Sent from my iPhone Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:51 am
Goofy story. But just confirms the meme - which is, everything Kirk says is suspect as an embellishment or outright lie. The guy has serious confidence issues. Regardless, as usual, it all comes down to money. Alexi better start raking it in if he wants to get this meme out to people beyond CapFax and us poli-geeks.
Comment by Sucka free Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 7:54 am
For a minute there I thought this was going to be the premise for the movie “Ordinary People” with Mary Tyler Moore and Judd Hirsch.
Comment by Cheswick Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:05 am
So the Tribune is provided with a statement from an eyewitness who says that Kirk’s body temp was 89 degrees an hour after he got to the ER, and they don’t see fit to include it?
I always thought you were unfair to the Tribune, Rich, maybe I was wrong.
Comment by well Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:12 am
Wow
CommandoMakeItUp is really rolling now. What sort of psycho has to lie about every facet of his life? Can’t someone tell him to stop? Hey they just caught the GOP Senate Candidate on plagarism. Why not look at CommandoMakeItUp’s writings.
It is good to see the Tribune using their “Get The Trash Out Early” program so by the fall all we will see is the Commando walking on water, dagger in teeth ready to fight all bad guys bare chested
Yikes…we just scared ourselves.
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:15 am
man, republicans worked hard to ditch the liars label during the reagan era. i guess kirk decided it was important to reclaim it. i’m starting to be greatly disturbed that the u.s. navy trusts kirk, he seems to be pathological in his deceitfulness…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:16 am
Is Lake Michigan really 42 degrees in June? Seems kind of chilly. Don’t people start swimming in the lake in May?
Comment by is there a sailor in the house? Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:17 am
So he was not qualified to pilot a Sunfish at age 16, and he’s not qualified to be a Senator today. Nothing has really changed.
Comment by Sharog Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:20 am
When you start attacking this guy on what he remembered when he was 16 years old and obviously almost drowned, or most certainly had a life-threatening situation as a teen-ager; you, and the Tribune are now just “piling” on. I’m a conservative Republican and realize Kirk is not perfect, but this continuation of attack on this story from a 16-year old, makes me certain to vote for Kirk, who served our country well.
Comment by Oppossum Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:23 am
I believe that since he has a note from his mom, this story is over. Nothing can trump the note from mom.
Comment by The Ticket Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:26 am
===this continuation of attack on this story from a 16-year old===
He ain’t 16 now.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:29 am
When you start attacking this guy on what he remembered when he was 16 years old
If he doesn’t want to be attacked for his blatant factual inaccuracies, then he shouldn’t make it such a focal point of his campaign and how he got into public service.
Comment by dave Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:37 am
=I believe that since he has a note from his mom, this story is over. Nothing can trump the note from mom.=
He also has a statement from an eyewitness who was out on the lake with him, and who saw him in the ER after he was brought in.
Comment by give me a break Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:38 am
This quote-”a classic near-death experience — reviewed my life, began to see the light” as a lifelong GOPer, I know that feeling.
Comment by Belividere Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:38 am
34 years ago as a 16-year-old, this is the way I remember it.
This is the answer.
We are talking about an autobiographic statement, not a factual one. These stories are not about time, date, temperature, miles, boating number, swimming style, clothing worn, or any such details.
And they are not supposed to be!
Every single autobiography contains within in it the author’s perceptions and feelings. That is the purpose of an autobiography! If we wanted to read facts, then we can pick up a newspaper account of the facts, or we can read an biographer’s accounting.
You are confusing the purpose behind autobiographical information and biographical or reporting, in order to present someone as a liar. That is a standard we do not apply to anyone else. However, we have been seeing politics played on this over the past decade.
Remember Clinton’s book, My Life? Remember how fact checkers combed through it? Remember how fact checkers combed through Sarah Palin’s autobiographical account of her campaign? Remember how many fact checkers there were on Obama’s Dreams Of My Father? None? Why would that be? I guarantee you that his next book will be railed as a long list of lies by his political opponents!
We are missing the point. An autobiographical accounting is not supposed to be based entirely on a detailed accounting of events. It is about the person’s recollections, feelings and thoughts about an event in their life!
I really am beginning to hate how we are allowing opinion makers to tear down an important part of our literature based on autobiographies. They are doing this for political purposes. They are stumbling into stupidity with this method of reporting.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:39 am
Don’t you folks get it? it is inherent of all politicians to embelish their stories. I don’t thin Kirk is any more or less guilty than anyone else.
Comment by Bman Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:39 am
The tribune empties barrells of ink whining about how there are no serious policymakers in Illinois and all the problems the state has, then when it gets a serious policymaker and leader ready to solve the problems it torches him over a boating incident.
Hypocrisy 101.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:42 am
Reminds me of my buddy Dan that embellishes most of his stories. Not a bad guy, but for whatever reason he adds some sugar on him. Kirk seems to be the same. I still like him better than Alexi G.
Comment by Officer Karkovice Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:44 am
If we are going to start bashing people’s personal accounts of what they experienced, then we can stop believing all interviews - because that is the purpose of an interview!
Are we going to start seeing folks showing up on Oprah!, with their lawyers in order not to be attacked as liars when she interviews them about how they felt after losing a loved one?
Are we going to start seeing Rachel Ray attacked as a liar because some of her recipes are not as yum-oh, as she claimed?
This US Senate race is in a dumpster because it seems that both political parties have nothing to offer voters except ridiculous personal smears against the other guy. Is this how newspaper editors think they are going to keep the presses running - ginning up phoney controversies on political figures?
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:49 am
Does Alexi remember which side of his mouth he was drooling out that day?
Comment by Sent from my iPhone Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:50 am
I am absolutely sure that absolutely every word in Obama’s absolutely fabulous autobiography is absolutely true. Absolutely.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:56 am
But the core of the underlying story is still true:
The 16 year-old Mark Kirk made an important and lasting decision about how he would live his life after he was rescued by some brave men in uniform.
And of course I’m referring to his life-long lifestyle choice of public service.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:57 am
Look, many folks embellish. But Kirk has two huge problems here. He didn’t tell the truth about his military experience - a major societal taboo - and therefore everything he says now is under the microscope. Taken separately, this is not much of a story. But since he made it his defining moment in life, and considering what has happened so far this summer, everything he says is now fair game. Deal with it.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:58 am
===Remember how many fact checkers there were on Obama’s Dreams Of My Father? None? Why would that be?===
That is simply not true VM. Then-Tribune reporter Dave Mendell spent a couple of weeks in Hawaii in 2004 combing through every detail in the book, from the basketball team to the drug use. Interviewed his grandmother about her recollections. Even though Obama used composite characters, Mendell met with most of the people those characters were based on.
===I really am beginning to hate how we are allowing opinion makers to tear down an important part of our literature based on autobiographies. They are doing this for political purposes. They are stumbling into stupidity with this method of reporting.===
That is among your most bone-headed statements ever VM. We’re supposed to believe the self-told life stories of our politicians? And you call this tripe “literature?” How gullible are you? Sheesh. Have some more coffee and snap out of it man.
You think Kirk is the only pol who’s bio is being fact-checked? It is SOP and has been for 100 years.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:59 am
I believe that not only do too many reporters fail to understand the purpose of primary sources for their reporting, I believe that too many of them also fail to understand the purpose behind differing kinds of information in which to build a credible report.
This foolish fact-checking of autobiographical personal interviews reveals serious misunderstanding among our mainstream reporters of their jobs.
I don’t want fact checking on what Alexi thought when he won a big basketball game. I don’t want fact checking on what Brady thought when he built his first house. I don’t want fact checking on what Quinn thought when he first noticed that he was going bald.
Good journalism understands how to report. This Tribune story fails that basic test.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:59 am
You think Kirk is the only pol who’s bio is being fact-checked?
Where did I ever make that claim? Please reread the bipartisan and non political examples I have written.
As to anyone fact checking Dreams, that person is guilty of the same kind of BS that has been passing for important reporting for the past decade. Utter nonsense.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:02 am
Rich - between this story and just the overall coverage of Illinois politicians lately, wondering if you could end the week with “Learn to Swim” by Tool.
Comment by Anon Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:05 am
I’ll be right back. I’m going to see if Alexi ever embellished about how many points he scored in a basketball game (in a rec game or overseas). Once I find out, Lynn Sweed will be the first to know.
Comment by Goodie Gumdrops Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:05 am
We’re supposed to believe the self-told life stories of our politicians?
We are all perfectly capable after a lifetime of listening to story telling to discriminate between fact, hope, fantasy and fable. Personal accounts are viewed through fun-house mirrors. Everyone knows that. Making a political case out of every personal accounting by a politician is foolish.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:09 am
VM, do you still believe the cherry tree story about George Washington?
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:10 am
Wow even his mom’s statement calls him a liar in the very first sentence, “in the afternoon of June 15, 1976 …”
Is his staff even trying anymore?
Comment by Screwball Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:11 am
Again, what is the biggest issue in the senate campaign? The horrendous shape of our state and country and the question of who is best to lead us out of this. Blago embellished nothing, how did that work out for us? Same thing on stroger, the clowns that run the springfield show?
The real focus of the tribune should be the direction we take, and since Alexi has nothing to say other than “I play hoops with the president, and some empty dc talking points”, this should be the focus.
Not one attacker, not one, of the congressman’s resume or these embellishments has in anyway told me how that has prevented him from anything short of a stellar congressional career.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:15 am
Here’s the other problem — Kirk’s just making his stories TOO detailed.
When I was younger — maybe 11, maybe 12, somewhere in there — I almost drowned in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Riviera Beach, Florida. I’d walked out too far on a sandbar, didn’t realize the current was pushing me further and further to the right, and eventually fell off the sandbar. There was a riptide, and I couldn’t get back to shore, and a German pilot jumped in the ocean and saved me.
All of that is true. All of that is a good story. And if that’s the type of story Mark Kirk was putting forth, he’d be just fine.
The problem is, he gives too many specifics (and yes, I know that’s counter-intuitive). He’s claiming to EXACTLY remember EVERYTHING that happened *35* years ago. It’s much better for him to admit he doesn’t quite recall, because it’s been so long, than to try and be certain about each detail. Especially now that he’s been ‘caught’ making up certain parts of his other life stories (military service, etc).
One thing that frustrates me about our elected politicians, as a whole, is their complete inability to admit when they’re wrong. Another thing that frustrates me about our elected politicians, as a whole, is that they show no interest in learning about the world around them — or learning from their mistakes.
Kirk made a mistake with the military stuff…and is repeating that mistake, time and time again. Fact is, sometimes it’s okay for the truth to be a bit vague.
Comment by Concerned Observer Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:18 am
The sad thing is that Kirk does have a history of embellishing his experiences to his detriment. But this election isn’t about who tells the most compelling story either true or embellished, but who will represent the State of Illinois in the U.S. Senate.
Neither Cmdr Kirk or Alexi”Jump Shot”Giannoulias have spent much time telling us what their positions are or how they will try to solve the pressing problems facing the United States. I guess its easier to debate body core temperatures and bank loan approvals that the deficit, unemployment and war. As my mother used to say, “You get what you pay for”.
Comment by WRMNpolitics Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:23 am
Bman: i have never known any politician to exaggerate as much as mark kirk. the guy’s pathological, and no one should trust him. (given the fact that he’s relatively inconsequential in congress, this doesn’t matter much — he’s not the only member of congress that can’t accomplish much there.)
shore: the biggest issue in the campaign hasn’t changed, as much as mark kirk keeps trying to change the subject. and that is this: does illinois want to be represented by someone who will join our favorite son in changing washington, d.c. and the country or do we want to send someone to the senate who will say no to every bit of hope and change that barack obama indeeds to bring to this country? this is not about mark kirk being a lightweight or a pathological liar. nor is it about alexi giannoulias and all the attacks that michael madigan threw at him in 2006. this is quite simply whether we want america to go forward into the 21st century or backward to wherever the social conservatives in charge of the republican party want to take us (13th century?). mark kirk won’t tell you that he’ll be mitch mcconnell’s stooge because he’s not exactly honest about himself…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:24 am
@Screwball - Kirk’s mom said he dumped the boat in the afternoon, but she didn’t say that the sun couldn’t have set three or four hours earlier than usual that day.
Please consider yourself rebuttalled.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:25 am
Was the interview for the boating magazine made before the ‘dash through the kitchen’ and the later apology for embellishing?
Obviously an interview proven to have some faults (or at least questionable ones) in it and given after the last revealed boo-boo acknowledgement and apology would speak to a lack of sincerity in any apologizes.
Comment by Cindy Lou Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:32 am
Most people here seem to be missing the point, it is that Kirk embellished a story. It’s that he ALWAYS embellishes a story.
Kirk is gifting wrapping this Senate seat for the totally (imo) uninspiring Alexi Giannoulias. Amazing. This is like watching the 2003 NLCS all over again.
Comment by The 'Dale to HPark Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:36 am
These embellishment stories have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the real issue in this campaign which is how we fix the problems confronting the state and country. If the tribune, which has endorsed kirk in 7 out of 7 competitive primary and general election races that he’s run in, can please tell me how this has any impact on Kirk’s afghan policy or plan to create jobs in Illinois, I am all ears.
Alexi’s bank was a big issue because it was his entire resume and body of work, prior to his election to a down ballot office no one cares about or understands. We’re 4 months past the time for the media to start asking him tough questions on his policy ideas so that we can cut through his bull and see the kid who is not ready for dc prime time.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:37 am
CO @9:18, did the pilot look like Mark Kirk? Did he jump out of a plane to save you?
Comment by And I Approved This Message Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:41 am
@MrJM - maybe the sun went offline for a maintenance upgrade and a reboot around 1:30 that day.
Comment by Screwball Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:41 am
Does it seem to anyone else that the statements from Mom & best friend are too similar? Almost like talking points.
Comment by Highland, IL Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:42 am
kirk’s pattern of exaggerations absolutely matter because they prove, without question, that he won’t tell us the truth about what he will do in the senate. we can’t trust him, and we shouldn’t trust him, because he will be throwing illinois’ vote away and do whatever mitch mcconnell and the extreme right wing in the senate want him to do. mark kirk won’t be like scott brown, who votes his state, he will be just another republican lightweight who basically does whatever he is told by the conservative republican leadership of the senate. kirk’s lies prove that we can’t trust him, no matter what he says…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:43 am
At least George Washington didn’t make up the story about the cherry tree. Parson Weems did that.
Comment by Aldyth Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:48 am
yeah, but george washington didn’t need to see himself as a hero. the fact that he actually was a hero underscores the unbelievable contrast with kirk and his need to think he’s better than everybody else…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:50 am
===These embellishment stories have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the real issue in this campaign which is how we fix the problems confronting the state and country. ===
Yes, they do. The question is whether we can believe what Kirk says he’ll do about the issues you list. The stories suggest that we’d better look very closely at all his policy pronouncements.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:52 am
I think the media is trying a little too hard to play the “gotcha” game and their getting silly.
Comment by Ahoy Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:53 am
kirk supported kagan this morning, bored, how right wing is that?
thanks for playing.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:54 am
He’s in the same “Truth” category as Blago! Is that what you want as your U S Senator?
Comment by obamalac Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:55 am
In order to provide some balance, I offer:
Mob Banker
STAR Bonds
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:55 am
Here’s a thought, wouldn’t it be nice to “trust” the person you are voting for? I certainly don’t trust Kirk - he can’t tell the truth to save his life. As for Alexi…well…well… Can we have a primary do over?
Comment by GetOverIt Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:57 am
Kirk is looking creepier each week. other than the mention in the favorable Kondracke commentary, i saw no mainstream media ccverage of the outing after the DADT vote, but Kirk’s explicit statement in response to Andy Martin’s allegations during the primary that he’s “not gay” is now an invitation to find the men quoted in the outing.
Why didn’t he just say the allegations merit no response?
“You talk too much, you never shut up!”-Run-D.M.C.
Comment by corvax Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:57 am
again, this race is not just between two horses, both of which are simply hay burners that need to be put out to pasture. though he has no money (i imagine) i am voting for LeAlan Jones. there is a mental block out there that people only have two choices, democrat or republican and that is simply not the case. my vote may not get him elected but i would never, ever consider voting for the republican or democrat in this race
Comment by bdogg Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:57 am
@Cincinnatus - get a grip. It’s hard to find any bank out there that hasn’t given a loan to a questionable group mob or not. How about this…Kirk = LIAR!
Comment by GetOverIt Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:59 am
If this race becomes about alexi versus kirk on policy and ideas, you’ll need the best surgeon in the country because kirk will rip him apart.
Whereas Kirk’s spent 10 years having to face the best educated district in the state through 4 brutal primary and general election campaigns and worked on issues for 30 years, alexi has nothing beyond what his dc lackeys feed his mouth and if you’ve seen the few rare instances where he’s been asked about substantive issues (his time sitting on the bench in a greek hoops league is not a foreign policy issue), he’s looked like a deer lost in the headlights.
If the media can show how these resume issues have anything to do with his record as a congressman, I’ll shut up and let you eat his guts for breakfast, lunch and dinner, until then there are a 100 days left of this campaign and reporters owe it to voters to focus on real issues affecting the state and country and not this cosmetic crap.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:01 am
AIATM: Can’t remember what he looked like. I DO know he didn’t jump out of a plane — he’d been laying on the beach.
I get the feeling that if you asked Kirk a question like that regarding his story, he’d draw you a sketch of the Coast Guard officer’s face.
Comment by Concerned Observer Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:02 am
Anyone’s memories of a frantic, traumatic event can be jumbled. The problem with Kirk is that his story changes all the time, making him sound more heroic in each telling.
Reagan told ridiculous stories all the time, but most just figured the old man was spinning yarns and let it slide.
You gotta give Kirk and his folks credit for coming back blasting with all barrels in a hurry. I think they knew it was coming.
But it will be another rock on the pile when it makes the TV rounds and Alexi puts out the “Kirk Lies Again” spot with the Trib logo on it.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:04 am
VM, do you still believe the cherry tree story about George Washington?
Washington never said that story. It was created by Mason Weems in this biography of Washington.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:10 am
Rich: I fully agree with you regarding closely looking at Kirk’s policy pronouncements based on his track record of embellishment, but this also hold true for Giannoulias based on his performance as a bank executive of a failed institution, and his role, or lack thereof in approving loans to questionable individuals.
Comment by WRMNpolitics Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:10 am
I figured there was probably a problem with the near-drowning story too.
This guy has no business even trying to get into the senate. He needs to be seeking professional help.
Comment by just sayin' Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:13 am
Incredible-
The trib chooses not to include information from eyewitnesses to the event about there being a squall on the lake and Kirk’s body temp being in the 80s. But then it’s a lot harder to call Kirk’s recollections “questionable” when you include information that supports Kirk’s memories.
This is just another example of the kind of gotcha journalism that Brietbart was called out for.
Comment by 10th Indy Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:18 am
WRMNpolitics,
Amen. Why don’t we see an analysis of Alexi’s performance in his current job, too? How much did Alexi’s management of his bank cost the taxpayer? Given Alexi’s close relationship with Obama, can we expect him to rubberstamp Obama proposals on legislation, taxes and spending? What legislative experience does Alexi have that will help in in the Senate? How does Alexi’s stated refusal to accept PAC money square with his fundraising in Canada with trial lawyers? Who is donating to Alexi?
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:18 am
VM ~
Given that we’re at the beginning of the end of the trial of a pathological-lying governor, I’m shocked to hear you defending Mark Kirk’s pathology.
Kirk isn’t reporting his feelings or perceptions…he’s once-again inventing facts.
And they aren’t inconsequential lies…once again they are lies which Mark Kirk says are at the core of who he is and why he is qualified to serve.
Perhaps most importantly to me in this story is that it raises serious doubts about the core of this story: 34 years after-the-fact, Mark Kirk says that this life-changing experience is the reason he decided to become a public servant.
Based on the fact that he didn’t begin his public service until more than a decade later,claim seems pretty fishy to me.
This story only raises more questions about Kirk, starting with “Mark Kirk: If your near-death rescue is what inspired your public service, why is it you remember so many details down to how far you swam and your body temperature, but can’t remember the names of any of the public servants whom you say not only saved but inspired your life?”
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:19 am
Kirk would be a heck of a fiction writer wouldn’t he? Or maybe a TV script writer. He can sure embellish with the best.
I think he should take Blago’s comments about talking too much as a warning to himself. A simple unadorned answer to the reporter about the boating mishap would have resulted in none of the scrutiny of the story.
As a retired teacher, I can remember young children taking a situation I also witnessed and making up quite a tale for others to hear. Most grow up and learn not to embellish the truth.
Maybe Kirk has some delayed development issues.
Comment by Nearly Normal Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:22 am
just sayin’,
I think “professional help” is overstating it. I think the pattern of lies will cost him votes and perhaps the election, but I used the word “creepy” above because it’s fascinating to me how trivial the “embellishments” are and yet how many there are, calling into question a far better-than-average resume.
Rather than someone who needs help, he seems like the second cousin you avoid at family reunions unless you need eye-rolling exercise. It’s this deep unlikeability that will alienate many casual voters.
Comment by corvax Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:23 am
All,
Remember TARP funds went to some financial institutions in order to prevent bank failure. It does not go to banks after they fail.
Once a bank has failed, the FDIC insurance fund kicks in, thus there is no loss to taxpayers. This is true, unless of course the bank was a recipient of TARP and subsequently fails. I do not believe Alexi’s bank falls into this category. If it does, then the fact is fair game!
Comment by GetOverIt Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:32 am
Alexi, Charles Schumer is backing Charlie Rangel in his defense from ethics charges. How do you feel about this?
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:36 am
Alexi, please explain how the President’s healthcare plan will effect small business hiring in the state of Illinois?
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:39 am
Alexi, the federal budget is out of balance to the tune of over a trillion dollars. Do you think that the government will have to raise taxes and cut spending to balance the budget? Name one program you would cut to save money. Name a tax you would increase to help balance the budget.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:43 am
By the way, I’d like Kirk to answer these same questions, let’s compare the responses.
What “estate” could ask these questions, I wonder… Oh, wait, they’re too busy…
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:46 am
I’m shocked to hear you defending Mark Kirk’s pathology.
It isn’t pathology. It is political spin. Take a look at the updates Rich has posted. The Democrats have decided to use anything controversial to paint Kirk as a liar. Kirk’s problem is that anything he says is being spun as a lie by his political opponents. Even when it isn’t a lie.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:46 am
===Even when it isn’t a lie. ==
How can you tell? lol
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:50 am
GetOverIt,
Alexi’s mismanagement of his bank by approving questionable loans caused it to fail. This allowed Alexi to take a giant tax credit. Money lost to the taxpayer…
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:52 am
Ok, gotta ask: how is ” he stood on his overturned sailboat and watched the sun set” political spin , VMan?
Comment by Cindy Lou Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:54 am
People, and yes I’m referring to many commenters here on both the right and the left, are soooo disingenuous.
Shore, VMan, Cinci, others - if the shoe was on the other foot, I have zero doubt that you’d be trumpeting the Democrat’s “lies”
Alexi backers (sorry, I don’t pay enough attention to you to know your handles), if the Republican had been a principal at a failed bank, you’d be all over it like white on rice.
Aside from the fact that we have two crappy major-party candidates, that’s the problem. People take their positions on partisanship and what they wish for rather than reality.
The reality is, Kirk embellishes…a lot. That’s an issue. He’s already flipped on Cap & Trade; what else is out there? If he says he’s for health care reform repeal or Kagan or sending anteaters to the moon, why believe him? Credibility is an issue whether you like it or not. Kirk is no longer credible.
Alexi was the VP of the family bank, more than likely made a bunch of questionable loans that caused the bank to fail, lost a ton of money in Bright Start that could’ve been saved (I’ve seen the details - he could’ve done better), and whose claim to fame is being a one-time FOB and a fair-to-middling basketball player.
Y’all need to wake up and see reality and stop shilling up talking points for your candidates. Feeding into the partisan frenzy is why bipartisanship is mostly dead and compromises can’t be reached on the most important issues facing the nation.
Comment by Thoughts... Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:01 am
Alexi’s mismanagement of his bank by approving questionable loans caused it to fail.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your “reality.”
Comment by dave Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:02 am
Hey Cincy…Wow, a lot of what ifs and innuendo from you today…must getting hot over in right-wing land. I mean its been a hell of a week for you guys.
I take it you’re gonna vote for the lying RINO?
Comment by Deep South Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:13 am
Sounds like Mark Kirk has participated in some sleep-overs at Rod & Patti’s house. Call it a coaching session!
Comment by Northside Bunker Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:23 am
The problem isn’t embellishment, it is the lies. If the water was 42 degrees and he was as off shore as he says, he and his friend wouldn’t have made it to shore. But if they did, they would have been so cold that no one in their right mind with sound judgment would have gone back for a swim out to the boat. Additionally, no sailor would leave the boat and no decent sailor would have any difficulty righting a sunfish, especially if the “sudden squall” story about what swamped the boat is true.
Clearly, Kirk made some dumb decisions and put his life in jeapordy foolishly. Any parent called to the hospital to find their 16 year old in the ER under a warming blanket would be tramuatized, and would likely not have a detailed recall of the facts.
We all know people who can’t help themselves when it comes to story telling, they lie to make it a better story. If you are going to serve the public trust I think it is fair game to put your public statements under a microscope. He embellished to advance his political career, this was not cocktail party amusement time.
And of course the biggest lie is already “out” there.
Comment by truthteller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:31 am
I don’t understand why Kirk fans are so upset about all of this. They should be comforted by the thought that even if Kirk loses, he’ll probably still think he won, or at least say so. Its a win-win situation, keep your chins up.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:38 am
shore writes: “kirk supported kagan this morning, bored, how right wing is that?”
i suppose if you’re going to defend a liar, you may as well lie about what other people write. it provides greater insight into why you support kirk.
of course, i didn’t say that mark kirk was a right winger. you made that up (perhaps as a salute to kirk!). i don’t think kirk has any ideology. as i’ve written before, my impression is that mark kirk is taken with very powerful men, falling under their spell, as it were, doing their bidding. but that’s what he does in washington.
in illinois, which doesn’t seem to care much about what happens in d.c., he plays a completely different game. he’s apparently charming to people who don’t have much experience with the nation’s capitol. he pretends to be all kinds of things — whatever will impress you the most, i suspect.
sure, mark kirk *says* he would support kagan, if he had a vote. but we can’t trust him, can we? see, to me, it doesn’t matter if you think he’s lying about this or not, because he’s not in the senate and not under the spell of the southern conservative gop leadership in the senate.
yet.
what we do know is that mark kirk was complicit in the greatest failure in american military intelligence, largely (i’d argue) because he was under the spell of donald rumsfeld and george w. bush. not only did he defend this failure, but he exaggerated to his fellow members and his constituents in order to bully people to buy into that failure. shore, you want to believe that kirk’s lies are meaningless, but any thought of kirk’s independence and willingness to work with both sides of the aisle went out the window when he lied to congress (and us) to participate in this great failure in military intelligence. no democrat can trust what he says, ESPECIALLY in washington, and we can’t either.
always happy to play when the future of the country is at stake.
and if you think that kirk can tear giannoulias apart on policy and ideas, you simply aren’t that intelligent. mark kirk, who runs from the press and refuses to take questions from conservative voters downstate, surely won’t be eager to debate alexi. i don’t think anybody believes that kirk can “rip him apart.” kirk can’t even handle questions from people inclined to believe and support him! kirk will undoubtedly argue to have as few “joint appearances” as he can get away with, because he’s scared of alexi, the press and the electorate. he’ll hide AGAIN.
Cincinnatus: feel free to provide evidence that alexi either exaggerated his position in terms of the bank’s loans to unsavory people or bright start. in fact, it’s not the giannoulias campaign that is exaggerating here, but (again) the kirk campaign. soo-prise, soo-prise! mark kirk proves again that he is, well, mark kirk. you almost have to wonder how he tells these lies with a straight face! the audacity of another dope, i suppose.
meanwhile, the same organization finds what giannoulias has said about kirk to have been true!
that you think that alexi mismanaged (or even manageed) broadway bank is just cute. either you are intellectually dishonest, or you are simply too ignorant of the facts to speak about this race. i’m betting on the intellectual dishonest option, but pick ‘em…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:46 am
Of course Kirk’s people knew it was coming! The Trib interviewed him about making up another story! NEWSFLASH: Almost every story ever written about someone that person knew it was coming because they are called by the reporter and asked questions! Hello!
Kirk says he’d support Kagan… but I’m 100% sure he’s lying.
Comment by The 'Dale to HPark Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:50 am
===These embellishment stories have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the real issue in this campaign which is how we fix the problems confronting the state and country. ===
Yes, they do. The question is whether we can believe what Kirk says he’ll do about the issues you list. The stories suggest that we’d better look very closely at all his policy pronouncements.
- Rich Miller
Thanks Rich, for helping folks to understand exactly what’s at stake.
Mark Kirk appears remarkably adept - even for a politician - at telling folks whatever they want to hear in order to get them to vote for him.
That’s especially relevant because many of Kirk’s political statements during this campaign are at odds with his statements and actions as Congressman.
If elected, will Kirk be Pro-Life or Pro-Choice? Pro-environment or Pro-Oil? Pro-Tea Party or Anti-Tea Party? We just don’t know.
Update
A Coast Guard helicopter has gone down in Lake Michigan with 5 aboard, MSNBC reports. Oh boy.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 11:52 am
In “Sons of our Fathers” Obama claimed to be a professor of law at the University of Chicago. UC needed to put out a correction. Obama was a part-time lecturer.
Lie or embellishment. What did it say about Obama?
Discuss.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:02 pm
Dr. Jay Alexander is a loyal Kirk supporter and committed Republican. Kirk dragged him to his healthcare town hall meetings last summer. Alexander has contributed to Kirk’s campaigns starting in 2000. He also has given money to Bob Dold.
Comment by mom52 Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:09 pm
@Cincinnatus - Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 10:52 am:
“GetOverIt,
Alexi’s mismanagement of his bank by approving questionable loans caused it to fail. This allowed Alexi to take a giant tax credit. Money lost to the taxpayer… ”
You don’t want me to go Brady on you, do you?
Comment by GetOverIt Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:14 pm
There are none so blind as those who will not see; none so deaf as those who will not hear. I put the truth about Mark Kirk before Illinois voters. Thery did not want to listen or see the truth. Republicans deserve what they are getting.
Andy Martin
Comment by Andy Martin Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:16 pm
Sir who posted at 12:16,
Please don’t use that handle, this blog may be subject to lawsuit.
Thanks.
Comment by Scooby Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:25 pm
Scooby, Andy comments here occasionally.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:32 pm
Thanks Andy Martin for the reminder that as bad as Kirk is, it could have been worse. They could have nominated you.
Comment by girllawyer Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:33 pm
Each additional statement post Tribune story shows the research the Trib writers engaged in was less than thorough, leading to less than accurate conclusions on their part.
So . . . . . . The event happened. Kirk was in the water longer than the story claims, and even went back into the water after helping his boat mate to shore. The boat capsized. He was in fact rescued by the Coast Guard. Now there are at least two additional sources of body temperature and lips being blue while in the hospital. And for anyone who hasn’t gone swimming in Lake Michigan or any body of water not surrounded by concrete and artificial heating devices, the farther and deeper you go out, the lower the temperature of the water.
We also now have differing definitions of hyperthermia from medical experts, including one which states “loss of awareness” which may explain the “sunset” statements. We now have a medical opinion which attacks the junk science used by the Tribune to try to attack Kirk’s story.
Interesting how all the involved parties to this incident are rushing to Kirk’s defense. The same thing happened to the attacks on his military record, which is how the fervor of those attacks died down.
I seem to recall when Senator Kerry was “swiftboated” some of the vets who with him were contesting his version of events. Somehow, that isn’t happening with Kirk, unless it is a desk jockey reviewing paperwork.
Now let’s get down to the real issue of Kirk’s character shall we? Is it true that he stole a red crayon from a little pony-tailed girl in first grade? And made her cry? Was he admonished by his teacher for that without having been sent to the principal’s office, since everyone involved knew that someday he would be a respected U.S. Congressman? Was he given special treatment back then?
As the National Enquirer used to say: Enquiring minds want to know! Little did they know that the Chicago Tribune would be nipping at their heels to run these kind of stories.
Sheesh!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 12:50 pm
If you’re explaining, you’re losing
Comment by Verdicto Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 1:00 pm
Bored, you should have a conversation with yourself and your fellow kirk haters because I’ve said for 2 years that you guys would screw yourselves again by calling him a conservative in the morning, a moderate at lunch and a bush conservative at night. I didn’t realize your candidate would make alan keyes look like a senator and that would be the reason you would lose, but you’ve out done yourself, even for a democrat.
I’ve not heard one person on this blog or in the 3 months of character and resume assassination against congressman kirk mention in ANYWAY how this affects the campaign or reasons he should not be a senator. A decade of cavity checks on the congressman have turned up no scandal, no inappropriate behavior, only a fine record that frankly beats the pants off of obama or any other guy who’s run for senate here.
This line of attack that because his resume he’s somehow untrustworthy or lying about his policy positions is loaded crap and an excuse to enter this garbage into a race. Look at what he said he was about in 2000 and look at what he’s done as a congressman. Exact same stuff. As former minnesota vikings coach dennis green said “he is who we thought he is”.
If the media wants grownups in government as they’ve been whining about since the advent of the blago/stroger era, they should start covering it like one and focusing on the issues and policy solutions of the candidate instead of what kind of gatorade alexi has when he plays hoops with obama at the east bank club and this drivel.
Comment by shore Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 1:11 pm
I use the same criteria as William F Buckley in the voting booth: vote for the rightward most viable candidate. Unfortunately that candidate happens to be Mark Kirk, the John Kerry of the Republican party. Now both major parties will have pathological liars as senators.
Maybe Kirk and Kerry can trade war stories.
Comment by Angry Republican Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 1:12 pm
===I’ve not heard one person on this blog ===
Then you’ve been reading with your eyes closed.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 1:14 pm
- Maybe Kirk and Kerry can trade war stories. -
It would be difficult for them to trade since Kerry was actually in combat. Y’all seem to forget that the attacks on Kerry were proven to be lies.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 1:15 pm
According to the City of Chicago Water Department the Lake Michigan temp at the inlet to the crib was 56-57 degrees that day.
There’s quite a difference between in 42 degree water and 56 degree water.
Although, if Kirk did get to shore and then go back in, it makes sense the water was warmer than 42 degrees.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:18 pm
shore: i get a kick how you can lie about what *i* said, and then try to pin the blame on others. does kirk provide lessons for that in secret meetings of the cult of saint kirk?
i didn’t call kirk a conservative. i didn’t call him a moderate. i don’t think he has an ideology. i think he has ambition — not that there’s anything wrong with that — but he doesn’t have enough confidence in himself to believe that he can achieve those ambitions without lying to us.
i *know* what he’s done, and that is line up behind powerful men and make pretty presentations advancing what they want. i want my senator to be more than an errand boy.
i can only assume that you haven’t been around too many campaigns. trust happens to be a critical element in getting elected, especially for elevated positions.
quite frankly, mark kirk is an idiot. for most people, his record is sufficient. no scandal, no accomplishments, but, then, no independence or anything remarkable. as i said months ago, feel free to name any whipped bill that he’s voted on without his leadership’s permission. i can acknowledge that he’s taken a couple of positions that were different from the gop’s position, but in every instance of a whipped bill, mark kirk had to ask for — and receive — permission to vote against his leadership.
every single time. there’s no courage there and there certainly is no independence.
there is nothing to be proud about there.
mark kirk is, as they say in washington, a lightweight. he won’t have any impact on the senate, and will simply be another pretty face vying for television time on sunday mornings. he won’t achieve any leadership position, and won’t produce anything of value for illinois. he will jump as high as mitch mcconnell wants, every single time.
this does not matter to the kirk cult. you believe he walks on water. i simply understand that he won’t do anything in d.c. there is absolutely no risk in voting for alexi giannoulias, even if we don’t know what he is capable of doing. whatever he does will be more for illinois than mark kirk.
hands down. sorry, i just can’t vote for someone simply because they have a pretty face…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:22 pm
Kirk has an emotional or neurological problem that manifests itself this way.
Kirk’s image of himself and his desire for reality to conform to his belief system distorts his perceptions.
Kirk’s brain can’t receive and process information that contradicts what he already believes.
During 2002, when the Bush administration was making the case to invade Iraq, Kirk told people he had seen classified information that definitively showed Iraq had WMD capability.
This would be an example of Kirk’s perception problem interfering with his duties as U.S. Senator.
And since the Israel Lobby wants the United States to take a hard line with Iran, probably wanting the U.S. military to bomb Iran…
And since Kirk is the errand boy for the Israel Lobby…
If Kirk were to be elected to the U.S. Senate, it seems Kirk’s perception problem would lead to more people being killed.
Kirk should get whatever therapy, support and medications he needs to participate in society as a person who is managing his condition. I assume retired members of Congress have good health plans.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:26 pm
For the love of Phil Crane would someone look into Kirk’s b.s. 9/11 day story!? If anyone’s ever heard it, it’s just too perfect to be (all) true.
Comment by Pioneer P. Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:37 pm
Never heard of it. Illuminate us.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:43 pm
Just Googled it. I guess I had forgotten that one.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 2:57 pm
There have been some claims on the Internet that Kirk was in some sort of meeting with Rumsfeld at the Pentagon during the morning of 9/11. I remember hearing that Kirk was in the parking lot with Rumsfeld at or around the time of the strike on the Pentagon. I have no idea if Kirk actually made the claim himself or if someone just said he did. It’s not one of his repertoire stories, which if he was there, all by itself, knowing his storytelling track record, is noteworthy. Why tell all sorts of stories, but not this one?
Comment by Ellen Beth Gill Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:18 pm
===There have been some claims on the Internet ===
Actually, the Tribune did a story on it…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0109120255sep12,0,4843837.story
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:27 pm
The Tribune version is different, having Kirk already on the road and not in the parking lot at the time of the strike, but I never liked the story I found and never used it as the basis for any research or post because it wasn’t sourced.
Comment by Ellen Beth Gill Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:37 pm
For those who claim embellishing like this doesn’t matter, particularly in an autobiographical context, consider this - Franklin Pierce was bascially elected by virtue of a campaign biography. Problem is, it was a pack of embellishments that hid his rampant alcoholism and unstable mental state.
I realize people think that we’re past all that with our modern media, but the fact Milorad got elected twice tells us that there’s still lots of opportunities for pathological liars in American politics. So when someone has a serious character flaw - like a need to constantly overstate every aspect of their life, from their backstory to their military service to their legislative and employment accomplishments - it should be thoroughly investigated to make sure we don’t put another sociopath into a position of power.
Comment by Berkeley Bear Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:39 pm
FOIA request for Kirk’s 9/11/01 schedule in 3-2-1…
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:45 pm
Shore, VMan, Cinci, others - if the shoe was on the other foot, I have zero doubt that you’d be trumpeting the Democrat’s “lies”.
If you read my examples, you would see that I obviously wouldn’t. You need to doubt a lot more.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 3:51 pm
I honestly (pardon the pun) don’t think these embellishments mean a whole heck of a lot in the big scheme of things.
Kirk is not the best candidate. Period. But I have met him on several occasions, and I find him to be an earnest man and a hard working politician. Being from a liberal district, he has not voted the way I’d like much of the time. I would not work for his campaign simply because of his cap-and-trade vote. However, Kirk’s greatest strength in my book is that he is very knowledgeable about the ways of Washington, and having a Republican in the senate will help arrest the overreaching Democrat agenda.
Alexi is too young, inexperienced and wet behind the years for us to make any judgement on how he would represent Illinois. I think he will be in the hip pocket of Obama, and Durbin. With them, we already have that view of the state covered, we don’t need Alexi there to. Just like Clinton was a successful president in no small means because he worked WITH the Republicans in congress, I think sending Kirk is better for the state because we will be covered if the Republicans take over congress. Balance, in a word.
We have already seen what happens when we send newbies to the senate. I, for one, do not want to send another young Democrat to Washington.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:03 pm
Maybe there was a solar eclipse that day.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:03 pm
For those who claim embellishing like this doesn’t matter, particularly in an autobiographical context, consider this - Franklin Pierce was bascially elected by virtue of a campaign biography.
If you are telling us that we should be concerned over autobiographical interpretation, you need to use an different example than Pierce’s biographical campaign tract. Or campaign propaganda.
An autobiographical accounting is a person’s interpretation of the author’s personal feelings and beliefs. This information serves a different useful purpose in understanding an individual than if the author went over the facts of their life without any embellishment. Personal autobiographical interviews such as the one being discussed today, are not lectures about Lake Michigan water temperatures, weather events which occured on a specific date, or anything currently being presented as a “lie”.
There is no rule that says says we are to fact check a political candidate’s 34 year old personal memories because the candidate has been questioned earlier on other embellishments. You don’t suspend rules which guide journalistic integrity on a whim.
You don’t fact check autobiographical interviews except in a court of law under threat of perjury, and even then cross-examination is used to clarify statements. You certainly should not do it in a newspaper and believe you are exposing any untruths.
The Tribune blew it.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:10 pm
lol. so the tribune shouldn’t have written about *another* example of kirk exaggerating his life experiences, even though this particular example demonstrates that kirk’s exaggerations aren’t limited to his military career or congressional record.
got it. VM, you don’t really believe in democracy, do you? the rest of us are grateful that the tribune has taken its responsibilities as the fourth estate seriously, even if it was just this once…
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:25 pm
This is not 1967. Your personal opinion needs a little fact checking, but I’d not call you a liar.
You seem to have missed that the Fourth Estate has been going out of business and have been repeatedly exposed as willing to sell out their integrity regarding political coverage, quickening their decline. The Tribune filed bankruptsy, and now chases after readers promising news stories as informative as this drivel.
As for Democracy - see, Internet; Modern Media for it’s future.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:38 pm
(again) i didn’t say that you called me a liar. and i’m not a fan of the tribbie, but they got one right (kirk exaggerates, about *everything*). good for them!
Comment by bored now Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 4:47 pm
WHO CARES…do i want a guy who ran a bank into the ground costing tax payers dollars and made loan to people with questionable moral character. Or a guy who at the age of 16 may have embellished the truth a little bit. Remember the things Kirk has embellished has been nothing to the extreme Alexis has embellished and cost us tax payers money. Is this the best the democratic committee can come up with. Come on Rich your taking the bait right along with the trib. Once again WHO CARES..GET TO THE ISSUES…if the dems will let us……. Shmae on Kirk for embellishing his “fishing” stories…
Comment by dumb ol' country boy Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 8:15 pm
@Louis Atsevas: “Interesting how all the involved parties to this incident are rushing to Kirk’s defense. The same thing happened to the attacks on his military record, which is how the fervor of those attacks died down.”
There was only one person with him during the actual event, his high school buddy. Yes. That guy said he recalled Kirk’s body temp was 89*.
But Mrs. Kirk wasn’t in the water that day so other than defending her son because he’s her son she wasn’t an eye witness.
And the Coast Guard report says the OPPOSITE of what Kirk claimed re seeing the sunset (til he learned the interview was on tape). I wonder, was he looking toward the Illinois shore or the Michigan shore when saw that didn’t-happen sunset.
LOL
more @Louis Atsevas: “I seem to recall when Senator Kerry was “swiftboated” some of the vets who with him were contesting his version of events. Somehow, that isn’t happening with Kirk, unless it is a desk jockey reviewing paperwork.”
You have a bad memory.
There was one guy who served near Kerry who for years agreed with Kerry’s version of events.
Then suddenly when Kerry ran for prez and that gazillionaire conservative funded the Swiftliars for Fibs that guy changed his tune. Dollars will do that to some people.
All the other people making up that sludge about Kerry never served with him just like all but one or two of the military people who are now defending Kirk NEVER served with him.
The only military guy I recall that served with Kirk was his former CO that nominated his UNIT for that award. That guy is now a defense contractor and Kirk is a Congressman with the power of the purse trying to become a Senator with even more appropriations juice.
Bottom line Louis is why are making this &%$# up?
Comment by G. Willickers Friday, Jul 23, 10 @ 9:52 pm
So, we are attacking Kirk’s memory as a 16-yr old in the middle of a clearly traumatic incident that necessitated medical treatment? I don’t even like Kirk, but this is getting ridiculous. Character assassination > discussing issues, I guess.
Comment by Liandro Saturday, Jul 24, 10 @ 2:24 am
How exactly is a boating accident relevant to an election? The cost of Coast Guard rescue from the lake has to be far less than the Feds taking over Alexi’s failed Broadway Bank which was once owned by his family.
What will the next revelation be? Mark Kirk used Cliff Notes rather than reading “Great Expectations” in high school?
This is getting silly. If Kirk can be tied to an actual scandal relating to politics, please let us know. We all know how well Alexi managed the college savings program as Treasurer.
Comment by Honest Abe Saturday, Jul 24, 10 @ 11:44 pm