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* Another flip-flop, or just good due diligence?…
Just a day after Republican Senate candidate Mark Kirk said he was “inclined” to vote for a $26 billion “jobs bill” to funnel federal money to the states to stave off teacher lay-offs, Kirk voted against it.
The Democratic-sponsored bill passed anyway.
“When I returned to Washington for this special session, I read [Senate] Leader Reid’s bill and found it spent more, taxed more and borrowed more than any of the past bills I supported,” Kirk said in a written statement. “I did not support the Reid bill because it added $16 billion in new Medicaid spending and levied another $9 billion in new, permanent tax increases. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the bill adds over $12 billion to our deficit. As a fiscal conservative, I could not support this bill and will work to cut spending, taxing and borrowing in this and future Congresses.”
Just about every story I’ve read about this issue says the CBO scoring found that it would reduce the deficit by $1.4 billion over ten years. That’s one part of the CBO scoring. Another part, dealing with the Pay as You Go statue, which you can read by clicking here, says the bill adds $12.6 billion to the deficit over ten years. But a footnote says this…
Excludes savings in Titles II and III that would result from changes to programs and rescissions of funds previously designated as emergency, which total about $14 billion over the 2010-2020 period.
It’s all DC Speak, but it looks like that $14 billion in savings more than wipes out the $12.6 billion deficit spending that Kirk pointed to. The Sun-Times talked to the CBO yesterday and was told the bill adds only $5 billion to the deficit in ten years. That’s $500 million a year, on average. Pennies to the feds. And Kirk is the same guy who is demanding an infinite extension of the Bush-era tax cuts, which if not paid for with corresponding budget cuts will deprive the federal governor of $3.5 trillion over ten years. Kirk hasn’t said how he’d like to pay for those tax cuts, by the way.
* Now, remember this ad?…
That ad attacking Giannoulias which is running this month is being paid for by the US Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber opposed the state aid bill because it’s partially paid for with a closure of an overseas business tax loophole. It would be tough for Kirk to vote against the Chamber while the Chamber was spending big bucks on his behalf. Just sayin…
* Alexi Giannoulias responded quickly…
“I am stunned that he would vote against an emergency bill to keep teachers in the classroom - a bill that is completely paid for and will save at least 5,700 teaching jobs right here in Illinois,” Giannoulias said.
* But will this bill actually save all those teacher jobs? Maybe not…
Three Southland superintendents say they believe the extra money coming into the state will be used to pay the general state aid they have already been promised. General state aid is money set aside for districts by the state, and is based on the number of students and the income-levels of each district.
In Mokena School District 159, 14 teachers were laid off earlier this year. District 159 Supt. Karen Perry believes the federal dollars will be used to pay money the district is already owed.
General state aid payments at District 159 have dwindled from $4 million five years ago to $900,000 this school year, she said, which amounts to only $500 per student.
“We don’t think we will see an extra dollar,” Perry said. “This will just help them meet their $500 obligation.”
Supt. Lawrence Wyllie also doubts the bill would be a big financial boon for Lincoln-Way High School District 210.
Lincoln-Way, which fired 35 teachers earlier this year, should receive an estimated $825,000 from the feds, according to preliminary estimates the state gave to U.S. Rep. Debbie Halvorson’s office.
“If they gave me that money, would I hire new teachers? Absolutely not. I would use it to fill the (district’s) deficit,” Wyllie said.
* Related…
* Quinn to review federal funding before acting on furloughs: The passage of a $26 billion federal jobs bill Tuesday failed to persuade Gov. Pat Quinn to immediately rescind a furlough order affecting 2,700 non-union state workers. The bill, which includes $550 million in additional federal Medicaid funding for Illinois, reverses most of the $750 million federal funding cut cited by Quinn as the reason he ordered 24 unpaid days off for the non-union employees in the current fiscal year. But Kelly Kraft, spokeswoman for Quinn’s budget office, said the governor’s furlough order still stands.
* Kirk flip-flops on jobs bill
* Kirk Changes Course on Jobs Bill, Votes Against It
* Kirk flips on stimulus vote
* Federal Bill Gives CPS Cash to Prevent Layoffs
* Dist. 220 looking to cuts, teachers contract for savings
* Parents ante $4.3 mil to save Cary District 26
* Kane County cuts half of its Health Department workers
* Ralph Martire: Pension debt a symptom of state’s problems — not cause
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:27 am
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mark kirk has *always* done this. said one thing in illinois, and been perfectly charming, and then gone off to d.c. and done another.
kirk has *never* voted against his party on a whipped vote without the whip’s express permission. sure, kirk could have been showing loyalty to the chamber, but he’s perfectly loyal to the house leadership.
which is just what you can expect if he wins this senate seat. he will be as close to the southern republican conservative leadership in the senate as one can be. oh, they’ll let him off the leash — when they don’t need him — so that he can “demonstrate independence.” because they know that they can count on him, when they need him. the house leadership wanted to make a point, and kirk was perfectly loyal. again.
what matters to kirk is what the republican leadership think of him. illinois doesn’t even rank a second thought…
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:37 am
So when you cut through all that Washington, D.C. double talk about spending and deficits, he bottom line is that it adds $5 billion over a period of 10 years to the deficit.
And now the Democrats who specialize in such double talk will attack Kirk who cut through the double talk instead of going along with it.
Interesting that banker Giannoulias states that the bill is “completely paid for.” He should have used a different line in his response.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:41 am
I’m not sure what to think about this bailout. You don’t want teachers to be laid off, but when I find online that a driver’s ed teacher in a Glen Ellyn high school is making 147K/year, I’m not pleased. (sidenote: that teacher has been there 34 years) I guess we’ll find out in time if this is effective, but I’m skeptical at the beginning. Also, will this have to happen again next year is the question in my head.
Comment by Davey Boy Smithe Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:43 am
He wasn’t a solid “yes,” so I can give him a pass on the flip-flop charge on this one.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:43 am
The $14B “savings” assumes future Congresses will take some sort of action in future years, specifically cutting spending raising taxes (normally not identified) that was talked about in the bill. So the only way this bill reduces the debt no is if a future Congress takes some nebulous action.
This is a typical, and dishonest, tactic often used in Federal budget calculations (on both sides of the aisle) that do not pan out in a vast majority of cases (I once heard approaching 100% of the time but I can’t put my finger on the reference).
Bottom line: the savings will never be realized and the bill will add to the deficit.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:45 am
and, yet, cincinnatus, kirk has voted both sides of this issue in the past. one *only* thing that he’s been consistent on is that he follows the lead of very powerful men. in the senate, that will be mitch mcconnell. illinois will have a vote for the southern republican conservative position. and it will be in the bank (he will never oppose them unless they give him permission to)…
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:58 am
We need to see the full interviews.
Maybe Kirk the prior day was asked about his position on whether it would be good for Ilinois. On the day of the vote, here then realized it would be bad for his his district.
I hear that happens sometimes.
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:00 am
when the congressman gets in trouble he starts voting erratically with the only guide being-what will serve my political interests best. Realize I say this as perhaps his biggest cheerleader here aside from team america. He was ok with the iraq war for 6 years then went to karl rove the day after dan seals nearly cost him his seat and said time to leave. He did the same thing on Afghanistan in 2008, which he has now re-flipped on and supports.
This was the only vote in congress this month so it’s not like his staff had nothing else to look at or figure out so the “last minute change of heart” thing does not really fly. Conservatives better get used to this because if the congressman wins, and I think he will, it’ll be 6 years of pulling your hair out on votes and hearing tortured excuses afterwards like this one.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:14 am
In this economic situation, it bodes well to be cautious, just as voters are being cautious with their own budgets. By voting no, Kirk is aligning himself closer to voters and their current gut reaction. It is a good move for him politically considering the current mood in the electorate.
As to Giannoulais, his answer was good, but this isn’t 2008. After two years of watching unsustainable government spending without meeting voter expectations, voters aren’t being moved by hitting their guilt buttons on education.
Democrats are moved by that, but GOP voters are not, and increasingly, a majority of independants aren’t being swayed by that.
Today, if an election was held, a candidate favoring business would beat a candidate favoring unions. In 2008, that would have been reversed. 2010 is finding these standard Democratic charges falling on deafer ears.
What Giannoulais has to do is point out Kirk’s lack of dependability on issue stands. Voters know they do not want a liberal in the Senate, so Giannoulias has to shake voters up by making them continue to question Kirk’s lack of a backbone.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:15 am
One other thing to think about with this vote, the legislation was created by Democrats in back rooms, and the text of the legislation was only made available at the last minute (not that we’ve ever seen that before).
I’m thinking that someone on Kirk’s staff read this bill, and Kirk changed his statements. Apparently, he thought the bill was paid for when he made his earlier comments, and changed his mind when he finally had a chance to review the funding shenanigans.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:18 am
VM,
“What Giannoulais has to do is point out Kirk’s lack of dependability on issue stands. Voters know they do not want a liberal in the Senate, so Giannoulias has to shake voters up by making them continue to question Kirk’s lack of a backbone.”
Good analysis. If I were Kirk I would counter with Alexi being Durbin’s stooge.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:20 am
Cincinnatus, the CBO report has been available and online since August 4th.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:20 am
Oh - and there is no way that any “saving” exists within any legislation being passed by any Democratically controlled legislature right now.
After two years of unsustainable government spending, they have no credibility with me regarding any claims of savings.
Democratic claims of savings within proposed legislation sound as unbelievable right now to me as if my wife told me she wants to double our credit card debt in order to buy reduced clearance items on sale.
Botton line - There isn’t any savings when you are spending, especially when the spender seems to have no sense of when to stop spending.
The current crop of Democrats in government have lost me completely here. I don’t believe them on this issue. As long as this is a major concern within the electorate, these Democrats are not going to be believed.
What we’ve seen over the past two years is “savings” being used as a political cover for more unsustainable government spending. After Obamacare, that line of bull is no longer working with a majority of voters.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:22 am
Good for Mark
He apparently recognized the kick the can approach this bill represents. Adding debt in the hopes of something magical happening in the next year is just what the Illinois legislators have been doing for the lat decade. Look where it has gotten us.
So what will the State do next year when the fairy dust from Washington does not reappear?
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:30 am
Oops, he did it again. The distance between lies shortens.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:31 am
===It would be tough for Kirk to vote against the Chamber while the Chamber was spending big bucks on his behalf. Just sayin…===
This is somewhat off topic but this statement is interesting in light of the Blagojevich trial going on right now. Now, I am not naive and I know how the system works. But how is the system SUPPOSE to work? Where is the line? Listening to the prosecutors, you would think that just knowing who gave you money and then voting for their cause, is a crime. I thought the most interesting part of the trial was going to be Blago’s defense that what he was doing was no different than what everyone else is doing. Fortunately for some and unfortunately for others who wanted to hear it, that story was not told.
Comment by Been There Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:35 am
===Oh - and there is no way that any “saving” exists within any legislation being passed by any Democratically controlled legislature right now.===
===Bottom line: the savings will never be realized and the bill will add to the deficit.===
I’ve been seeing this a lot from VanillaMan and Cinci. It used to be that we could agree on the facts, while disagreeing about their meaning. Now we cannot even agree on the facts.
Is the CBO lying? Or do you think VanillaMan and Cinci are so smart that they know more than the professional, nonpartisan bean counters at CBO?
You guys are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Please stop making things up and passing them off as reality. The GOP nationally has become very adept at creating its own reality and I for one am sick of the toadies here that mimic whatever nonsense fits their worldview at the moment.
And the implication of Kirk’s vote is: screw you, Illinois. Go ahead and raise taxes (property or income), or slash more spending. Illinois is on its own, and Mark Kirk is more concerned about protecting a Chamber of Commerce-supported tax break than he is about getting Illinois through this crisis.
Once again, on the really big issues, Kirk is wrong.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:46 am
I just assume there’s a dishonest motive behind anything Kirk says or does at this point. Saves a lot of time.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 10:57 am
Is the CBO lying? Or do you think VanillaMan and Cinci are so smart that they know more than the professional, nonpartisan bean counters at CBO?
Do you know that the CBO only measures what it is told to measure? It may be impartial, but it is incomplete when told to be. Additionally, reality has shown us that the people in office are afraid of their falling popularity. What is the Congressional approval number right now? Hey, they have reasons to be frightened.
So these frightened pols are now trying to save their hides by hiding behind illusions of “savings”, just as they hid behind it over the past two years as we get stuck with more misery, thanks to their corrupted legislation.
The CBO is an impartial tool that can be used to present incomplete results. The professionalism of the CBO isn’t being questioned. What I am questioning is the lack of results from past “savings” as passed by these very same legislators. There were no savings! As a result, an increasing majority of voters, (about 90% and rising), don’t believe Congress and it looks like there will be a change signaled in November.
But that’s reality again. Sorry if it offends you.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:04 am
“Cincinnatus, the CBO report has been available and online since August 4th.”
Sure, but do you think he had time to read it? You really expect that a candidate for the United States Senate will find time to do the job that he was elected to do? Come on. He’s been BUSY!
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:05 am
Rep. Kirk flip-flops about many issues. He ensured that the federal government spent money, in his district, for HUD, Headstart, Metra, and local police departments, but he says that he opposes all congressional earmarks. He says that he supports the Iraq war, but he opposed the surge. He probably changes his mind so that, when he campaigns, in different groups, he can say that he agreed with that group. He doesn’t mention the fact that he also agreed with an opposite group.
Comment by Conservative Veteran Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:16 am
And here I was thinking it might be a good idea to test whether or not Illinois could survive with less government employees toiling than what we have today.
You know, in case the bad economy continues into 2011 and there isn’t another bailout next year.
Comment by Leroy Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:20 am
===But that’s reality again.===
To quote the Dude: “Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.”
Everything you post here is your opinion. Please don’t speak for others and please stop making up facts.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:34 am
This is just a set-up of last minute drama intended to make headlines and try to show conservatives he’s one of them. I give it one star.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:46 am
i’m never certain if the cult of saint kirk are just spinning on things like this or they simply don’t understand reality.
the cbo score is what is required by PAYGO. complain all you want about whether or not it will actually pay for the legislation at hand — i mean supply-siders actually believe that tax cuts will “pay for themselves,” and have insisted on including that theory in cbo scores — but the fact is that these scoring rules have been in place for quite awhile, through both republican majorities and democratic majorities in both houses.
the reason why kirk is full of it here is that democrats re-instituted PAYGO, after republicans dropped the requirement during the bush years. and mark kirk has a solid record of voting with his leadership in dropping the PAYGO requirements.
last time i saw, the bush tax cuts and the wars (one of which was an elective war, based upon the greatest military intelligence failure in our history) were the largest contributors to our national debt. my understanding is that kirk wants to extend *all* of the bush tax cuts (which expire next year because not doing so would have shown their enormous costs over time) WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM.
fiscal conservative my arse (although the term is widely used by a lot of members of congress who can’t credibly make a claim to it). he only wants to cut the deficit when it doesn’t effect a program he supports. typical politician…
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:55 am
Hurry. Somebody help the President, Pelosi, and Reid hide that Doc fix before the CBO scores it.
=The CBO is an impartial tool that can be used to present incomplete results.=
That’s a fact. For example, double counting supposed savings and preventing the CBO from scoring the cost of the Medicare doc fix.
Giannoulias has zero credibility when it comes to math. He genuflects after Obama speaks. He repeats what he hears. Obama’s own Medicare actuaries can’t lie to cover the statements. Too bad Chicago’s own didn’t bring his own bean counters.
Comment by Brennan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:13 pm
Please don’t speak for others and please stop making up facts.
You forgot to add - “especially when they contradict what I want to believe.”
Saving money by not spending money is in vogue this year. You’ll see in November - but then again, are you one of the experts who think voters are too stupid to understand all this?
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:14 pm
===preventing the CBO from scoring the cost of the Medicare doc fix.===
If it ain’t in the bill, they can’t score it. Simple. And that wasn’t in the bill.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:14 pm
VanillaMan, you’re the one who thinks voters were too stupid to understand that Rod Blagojevich was a crook. Take a breath, dude.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:15 pm
Has Kirk always found religion with the right during election years or just in his run for senator during a rightward stampede in an off year election? Kirk really seems to have his finger to the right wind (windbags)? I am putting him in the weasel class with Johnny McCain.
Comment by Vole Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:40 pm
47th Ward,
My whole point is that the savings being realized can only result if a future Congress takes some other actions. A sitting Congress cannot bind a future Congress to perform some task.
So here’s what is happening, this bill “pays for itself, heck it even reduces the deficit” if a future Congress, which the current Congress cannot bind, either makes some cuts in future programs, or raises taxes. The current bill, in and of itself, costs tens of billions of dollars that do not have an appropriation of a real pot of money to support it. But, if some future Congress makes some cuts in something years in the future, the bill reduces the deficit.
As I said above, this is a despicable accounting trick used all the time by politicians on both the left and the right. Sadly, this current bill only temporarily bails out the states (and primarily the unions) without being paid for except by the very children we claim we are protecting.
Since August 4th, every dollar being spent for the rest of the year, every dollar paid to contracts, loaned to the states, bailed out to the auto industry, for defense, social spending IS BEING BORROWED and will have to be paid back by future generations.
EVERY. SINGLE. DOLLAR.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 12:57 pm
“will have to be paid back by future generations.”
Another myth. Much of our public debt will never be paid back.
Comment by Vole Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:08 pm
I figure he voted against the bill to satisfy his Republican friends but knew in his heart that it would pass anyway so he didn’t have to vote with his conscience and vote for it. Typical…
Comment by ah AH Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:11 pm
Wow, all caps and everything. I guess if you shout louder you win the argument, eh?
Bottom-line: Kirk’s vote protects companies that ship jobs overseas instead of helping states keep teachers, police and firefighters employed.
You can spin it any way you want, but you can’t change the fact that Kirk just gave Illinois the finger. And to think Senators used to represent state interests in Washington…
Oh, and I welcome your newfound disdain for deficits and borrowing. Forgive me for wondering where that’s been for most of this decade.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:12 pm
47th ward
How is taking from food stamps to keep union workers helping our state? The poor need the food stamps but the teachers gave a ton of money to the Democrats. It shows where their real interests are.
Comment by votecounter Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:34 pm
47th,
Had I discovered this blog while Bush was president, or when the Democrats took control of Congress in 2006, you would have found me saying that you can’t spend money you don’t have. Bush’s biggest mistake, bigger than the Afghan war, bigger than Iraq, was that he did not use the veto pen on government spending and big government growth.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:35 pm
Let’s be honest, here. Why should Kirk or any GOP legislator vote for an election year bailout for Democratic donors? The $26B “jobs” bill is a $26B hand-out to Democratic union donors to be shoveled right back into Democratic races this fall. This wasn’t about keeping teachers in classrooms in Illinois or anyplace else for that matter. Reid, Pelosi and Obama are shoring up their base anyway they can and this bill was another example.
And, yes, the GOP does the same thing. Blah, blah, blah.
Comment by SangamoGOP Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:42 pm
Fine Cinci, I’ll accept that you would have maintained some logical consistency had you been here all that time.
But I disagree on Bush: his biggest mistake was cutting taxes and then invading a country that didn’t attack us. Veto schmeto. You want to wage war? You have to pay for it. Those tax cuts are the biggest single reason we’re in such a hole today.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:44 pm
Here is a recent report from the IMF on the United States. It is actually easy to read, but I will summarize it here:
The US is essentially bankrupt:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2010/cr10248.pdf
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:45 pm
===The US is essentially bankrupt===
From the report…
Conclusions
Sizeable fiscal actions would be needed to close the U.S. fiscal and generational imbalances. Under current policies, the United States federal debt is projected to grow rapidly due to a combination of large budget deficits before and during the crisis, as well as, over the medium term, demographic factors and healthcare inflation. As part of the medium term adjustment, the authorities would need to raise taxes and/or cut transfers substantially to avoid an undesirable escalation of the debt-to-GDP ratio. The longer the wait, the larger the necessary adjustment will be and the greater the burden on future generations.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 1:55 pm
Hasn’t Kirk been in politics long enough to know that if you haven’t made up your mind on the way you are going to vote and are asked by the media for your position, the answer should be “I’m still reading the bill and will let you know my decision when I have finished my research.” Im sure the Navy taught him that you don’t give the enemy ammunition and then volunteer to become the target.
Comment by WRMNpolitics Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:02 pm
“The US is essentially bankrupt:”
U.S. 1 month T-Bill rate - 0.14%
U.S. 1 year T-Bill rate - 0.25%
U.S. 3 year rate - 0.81%
U.S. 10 year rate - 2.86%
Something’s not adding up.
Comment by MikeMacD Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:05 pm
The Fed is keeping interest rates low to stimulate the economy and recently monetized even more US debt which is like using your credit card to pay your mortgage. The Chinese just announced a slowdown of their economy and may slow future purchases of US debt.
This sounds good to you?
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:25 pm
We’re still the envy of the world Cinci. For good reason too. I thought you Tea Party folks were patriots?
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:31 pm
“which is like using your credit card to pay your mortgage.”
If I could print my own money I would concede your point. I can’t so I won’t.
“This sounds good to you?”
Ask again when the reality of the bond market catches up with your dreams of bankruptcy.
Comment by MikeMacD Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:40 pm
47th,
“We’re still the envy of the world Cinci. For good reason too. I thought you Tea Party folks were patriots?”
Is this what passes for serious discussion and understanding from liberals? Geesh, no wonder Democrats gonna take a beating this fall.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:42 pm
Yeah, that last one was probably one too many from me on this thread.
But seriously, as bad as things are economically in the U.S., we are still the envy of the world. And your predictions of doom run contrary to the optimism Reagan had for America. We’ll get through this crisis, Cinci, but I don’t expect much help from you or Mark Kirk.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 2:52 pm
Here we go again on the tax cuts for the rich….
Each and every time the US has cut taxes, more money has flowed into the treasury. It worked for Kennedy on thrrough Reagan and Bush. When you eliminate tax breaks the money goes back into safer places where it generates less profit, thus reduced money flowing into the treasury.
Besides when you drain money from the investment pool, you need fewer worker, so they get no money either. Its called a negative feedback loop.
So go ahead and eliminate the tax cuts for the rich which will hurt the small businessmen and women the most. See how the employment rated continue to erode.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 3:04 pm
==But Kelly Kraft, spokeswoman for Quinn’s budget office, said the governor’s furlough order still stands.==
To steal from Churchill, “Cannot rescind furlough days. New contrived excuse follows.”
Comment by Pat Robertson Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 3:07 pm
Plutocrat,
With all due respect, the Laffer curve is no longer applicable. It works when tax rates are two or three times higher than they are today. When Kennedy lowered the tax rate, the highest bracket was 90%. Under Reagan, the high capital gains bracket was close to 90%. When you cut a tax rate that high, the Laffer curve works.
When rates are historically low, as they are now, cutting them further does NOT produce more revenue. See Bush II. Or read these economists’ summaries from a variety of political views.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/08/where_does_the_laffer_curve_be.html
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 3:14 pm
47th Ward,
Sit down.
I agree that the supply-side argument may not be the be-all and end-all in the current environment.
There, I’ve said it.
I also believe the Keynsian argument has failed every time its been tried, including this current interation.
Spending is the current problem. It is robbing money from future generation, the government is crowding out investors, unpredictabilty is causing problems for businesses, possible fraud is rampant, especially in Medicare.
I truly believe that taxes are just about right now, spending must be reduced to meet the revenues brought in by the taxes.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 3:24 pm
Voters too stupid? Nope, I’m saying that the folks who actually knew Blagojevich, supported him in public, endorsed him, gave him $50 million bucks, refused to fight him, kissed his butt, and then skedaddled once he was handcuffed, are the ones who are stupid. Voters who never met the guy aren’t,
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 8:37 pm
The U.S. is bankrupt? Really? Who’s foreclosing and how are they collecting? They better pack a lunch, because it will be an all day job.
I’m flabbergasted every day by the stupidity of the bean counters on this blog. The United States is the wealthiest, most productive society ever on the face of the Earth. The drunks who ran the financial system got us in a mess, but it’s not the end of the world.
Since we didn’t string them up on the lampposts (not a bad idea) we have to let them sober up and adjust the numbers.
It’s just finance. It’s how you keep score. It means nothing when it comes to actual wealth or productivity. It’s pulled out of the air.
Back in the day, when Japan (remember them?) was taking over the world, Milton Friedman said: “We give them tiny pieces of green paper and they give us cars and electronics. Who’s the chump?”
Is your safe haven China? Give me a break. Even the city of Chicago still has a AA rating.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 9:17 pm
As a longtime resident of the 10th Congressional district, I can say that this kind of deceitful behaivior is typical of Kirk. Kirk doesn’t just lie about his military record, he lies about matters of public policy. He lied about health care reform, he lied about China drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico. Then Kirk apologizes for the lie and hopes everyone forgets about it.
I’m just glad the media is paying attention now and making people aware of when Kirk bends (or just ignores) the truth.
At least you know where Giannoulias stands on the issues. Kirk is just a lying flip-flopper.
I’m voting for Giannoulias all the way.
Comment by nick k. Wednesday, Aug 11, 10 @ 11:06 pm