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* I got news for you, Mayor Daley, your city is already broke…
“I’m not going to listen to state government for financial advice, we’d be bankrupt.
Sell the parking meters and spend almost all the money in a year. Good one. Put half the city into a TIF district, thereby squeezing every budget, including the city government’s, for the sake of creating a mayoral slush fund. Excellent. Refuse to hire more cops during a horrific murderous crime spree. Sparkling.
More…
“We [should] not listen to them, your state senators or representatives. No way. Look what they’ve done with the state budget and now they’re telling us what to do with the city budget. No way.”
It seems clear that the inspiration for his caustic comments was State Rep. John Fritchey (D-Chicago). Fritchey, who is running for a seat on the Cook County board, held a news conference Sunday and called for a “major TIF overhaul” to funnel more tax dollars to the Chicago Public Schools.
But asked which Springfield critics he was referring to in his remarks Tuesday, Daley replied, “All of them, in general.”
Daley has a point about Fritchey and glass houses, but he should take his own advice. His reputation as a stellar manager is in tatters. The city is on a downward spiral, and maybe he should be looking for some solutions, rather than getting all defensive about the lousy job he’s done.
* Kass…
Ald. Scott Waguespack, 32nd, has two terrifying words for Mayor Richard Daley:
Forensic Audit.
It may not sound sexy. But having former IRS agents go through two decades worth of insider political deals and revealing it all to a tax base of voters that has been bled dry is something Daley and his boys would hate.
After spending months pointing out the corruption and waste of taxpayer dollars at City Hall —including that ridiculous parking meter deal that may have sparked a revolution — Waguespack, 40, is thinking about challenging Daley for mayor.
The first thing he’d do would be to add more police on the streets. But a forensic audit might be just what the doctor ordered.
Waguespack’s run for mayor is just another Kass fantasy…
Today is the first day for circulating nominating petitions to get on the February city election election, and Alderman Scott Waguespack said Monday he would seek signatures to run for four more years as 32nd Ward alderman — not for mayor. […]
The alderman, who narrowly defeated Daley-backed Ald. Ted Matlak in the 2007 election, had less than $20,000 in his campaign account at the end of June, according to documents filed with state officials.
But that doesn’t mean the audit isn’t a good idea. Daley was elected mayor 21 years ago. One can only imagine what an audit would find. Fritchey and Waguespack are feuding, but there’s no reason why Fritchey couldn’t push that idea as well. It the city won’t do it, maybe the state could help. And do one on itself, for that matter. I’ve been on the fence about this idea for a while now, but I’ve come around all the way. The state, city and county could all use one.
Sauk Village is broke, according to the mayor. “We’re just about out of money,” said Lewis Towers, 59, the part-time mayor who works full-time as director of the Cook County assessor’s Markham office. “We can make Friday’s payroll and that’s it. We have $150,000 in our general fund and an annual budget of $9.1 million.”
Towers said the village payroll is $160,000. He plans to lay off at least 10 of the village’s 60 employees and expected the village board to approve the cuts at a meeting last night.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:39 am
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This appears to be the start of a circular firing squad among Democrats.
Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:53 am
I’m not a fan of the media or the new york times especially but this comment was disgusting and shows a lot of arrogance for a mayor with all the problems you noted in addition to someone that spent 3 years on an olympic bid and came in dead last.
“”And he told this reporter that he should know how rough the recession has been on the Tribune because “you worked there before and they let you go.”
Informed that this reporter quit his job with the Tribune and was not laid off, Daley laughed and said, “Oh, didn’t they? OK, well, you were on the waiting list then.””"
Comment by shore Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:54 am
Interesting… Where have I heard about this forensic audit idea before???
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:54 am
RE: Sauk Village
“The village currently pays 100 percent of health care costs for its employees and 70 percent to 80 percent for dependents,” Towers said.
This is a town of 11k, with a staff of 60 people.
Assuming that the payroll is monthly, average pay per employee is $32k. If payroll is bi-monthly, average pay per employee is $64k. Median household income is $46k, per capita $16k.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:56 am
Have to admit that I’m a bit disappointed that Waguespack is not running for mayor, but it was pretty obvious from his reports. He hasn’t raised enough for re-election, muchless mayor. Time for his fundraising to kick into gear.
Can anybody confirm that anybody is circulating for mayor? I keep hearing that Fioretti is serious, but his numbers don’t show it and he likes to claim that he’s running for office and then back out. I’m having a tough time believing that Fioretti is going to do it.
Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 10:57 am
Can we deep six the term “forensic audit” before it’s too late?
I had never heard it until Bill Brady started using the term in the primaries. I understand it’s catchy, but it doesn’t accurately describe the kind of audit people are asking for.
Would it be too much to ask everyone to go back to the dictionaries and accounting textbooks, and find a catchy adjective that actually applies?
Comment by Just a Reader Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:00 am
Someone please run against Da Mare!
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:03 am
I don’t know. Waguespack was on Chicago Tonight last night giving Eddie Aruza every indication that a mayoral run is a possibility. He said he’s first going to get signatures for re-election then look into running for the big job. Said Daley running wouldn’t necessarily change his plans.
Very cryptic interview, but he definitely wants to be considered a Mayoral contender. Which I find laughable, but that’s just me.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:04 am
“Forensic” audit is the flavor of the month among people watching too much prime-time television. “CSI: Accounting.”
Just call it an independent audit, which can be very enlightening, until you hit the trail of specific fraud or criminal acts. Then you can get all forensic. Cue “Teenage Wasteland.”
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:07 am
Forensic audits are used to gather forensic evidence for proof of a crime, such as embezzlement or fraud.
Either Bill Brady thinks we have a deficit because $7 billion is being embezzled, or he doesn’t understand the term.
Comment by George Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:07 am
Waguespack isn’t ready for prime-time yet - I thought his appearance on Chicago Tonight last night showed he has a grasp of the right policies of transparency, TIF’s, and he was on the right side of the parking meter vote, but he wasn’t very passionate in making his case. I thought he came off as a knowledgeable wonk, not a leader - I hope he can develop further his skills. And he needs to stop calling them TIFs and start calling them Daley’s slush fund if he really wants attention.
just curious - why are Waguespack and Fritchey feuding? it seems that they’d agree that TIF money should be spent more wisely and openly than it has been.
Fritchey tweeted last night “I’m guessing that at the end of the day, all of these Aldermanic Mayoral aspirations amount to more bluster than substance.” - I actually thought Waguespack’s appearance was all substance but not enough bluster.
Comment by Robert Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:08 am
word - the name of the song is Baba O’Reilly. It’s on Who’s Next.
Comment by George Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:10 am
Listen folks the Mayor is not going anywhere. And Fritchy and Waguespack don’t like each other because of Matlack. Fritchy and Matlak are buds. In any event, the Mayor is right. Why would I want Springfield telling Chicago what to do? If the meters are not leased (not saying the price was right) we would really be in a hole. As it stands we are treading water. So Rich…Chicago is in the red, but we are not in oblivion, i.e. the state.
Comment by GetOverIt Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:16 am
Rich, here’s the Mayor’s full quote:
“Everybody wants to raid something,” Daley said. “I’m not going to listen to state government for financial advice. I’ll tell you one thing: The city of Chicago should not listen to the federal or state government for financial advice. We would be bankrupt today. We [should] not listen to them, your state senators or representatives. No way. Look what they’ve done with the state budget and now they’re telling us what to do with the city budget. No way.”
Here was part of my reply:
“My soon-to-be-former colleagues in Springfield should remember the following comments the next time CPS or the CTA come hat in hand to Springfield.”
Comment by Rep. John Fritchey Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:17 am
i also thought Waguespack was interesting but not quite ready for prime time. No money, and he voted for most of Daley’s TIFS.
When I hear the phrase “entrenched beauracracy for the chosen few”, I think of the Daley admnistration. I really doubt anyone can best him in the next race for Mayor.
Why is Fitzgerald concentrating on sociopath Rod when Hizzoner has way more to go after? Beats me…
Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:20 am
“Forensic audit is the flavor of the month”
I suppose forensic accounting might be a good career path for those who want to bust bad guys but are too squeamish to consider forensic science… after all wasn’t it a forensic accountant who discovered that Rod and Patti spent $400K on clothes?
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:21 am
Re: Forensic audit & Brady
I thought “forensic audit” was Adam Andrzejewski’s meme.
Comment by Joe from Joliet Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:22 am
To GetOverIt: Me and Matlak are buds?! Um yeah, ok. I don’t have time to waste on this today, but why don’t you learn your facts before making stupid comments. I’m pretty confident that the facts will be made clear soon enough. For now, I have to get back to work. Have a good day all.
Comment by Rep. John Fritchey Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:23 am
wasn’t it a forensic accountant who discovered that Rod and Patti spent $400K on clothes?
I assume all they did was look at their bank statement to find that out. If knowing how to read a bank statement is a coveted skill, sign me up!
Comment by George Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:23 am
John, you should have tossed in an OMG! and a WHATEV! to that post.
Comment by George Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:25 am
Let’s be honest about a forensic audit of the city, county, and state governments:
If they did that, they would have to triple the size of the Metropolitan Correctional Center with all the politicians that would be housed there awaiting trial. And some of the heaviest hitters would be in the biggest trouble.
That being said, I’M ALL FOR IT!!!! Let’s roll!
Comment by Logical Thinker Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:27 am
===Um yeah, ok. I don’t have time to waste on this today, but why don’t you learn your facts before making stupid comments.===
County Board Candidate Fritchey is way more entertaining than State Rep. Fritchey!
Comment by Obamarama Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:40 am
I used to think Daley was a good manager/fiscal conservative but I think that he did well during boom times (abundant real estate taxes and federal grant dollars) but once money tightened up he has shown no ability to adjust. He has chosen to attempt to balance the budget by not hiring police (to the tune of saving approx. $100,000/year) and figures that cameras will make up the difference. His reputation as a tough manager is repudiated by the fact he has shown no ability to layoff or cut services during the last few years, instead draining from the meter and skyway money. In his re-election campaign he will talk about cutting payroll when in reality all he has done is spent every dollar that has been saved by job-cutting and spending it one vendors. He prefers vendors to city workers, city workers are beneath him.
Comment by Jim Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 11:57 am
GetOverIt, is that why Matlak ran -against- Fritchey this last cycle, for Cook Cty Board? Is that why Matlak stooges (most likely) were putting up fake Fritchey / Stroger signs up on the western edge of the district, near primary day? I once ran into Mrs. Matlak and heard from her lips what Matlak thought about Fritchey. I don’t even know that much about Chicago politics, frankly, but I can shoot that one down from a mile away.
That one comment was 100% pure troll.
Comment by ZC Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:01 pm
@Fritchey…yeah, that was tongue and cheek there…To all, it is well established that Fritchey and Matlack are enemies. In other news…wouldn’t it be great if they were friends. Then again…
Comment by GetOverIt Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:04 pm
“Refuse to hire more cops during a horrific murderous crime spree.”
Kinda over-the-top don’tcha think Rich? I might agree with everything else in the post, but the murder rate is on par for the past three years in Chicago, if not just below.
Comment by bmcchgo Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:04 pm
ZC and all, I am a supporter of Flores and have participated in a few GOTV for Fritchey! Fritchey and Flores are buds…
Comment by GetOverIt Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:06 pm
A “forensic audit” means something specific and concrete. An earlier commenter pointed out it is most often used in the context of litigation. Say, for instance, you have a governor who was looking to monetize each and every governmental decision he made.
It is more than just an “independent audit” and those who think they are the same (or that a forensic audit is some invented term) simply know very little about accounting.
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:06 pm
bmcchgo, and that’s the excuse? Great. Go with that one.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:07 pm
Mayor Daley = Somebody
Waguespack = Nobody
Old Chicago political axiom: “You can’t beat Somebody with Nobody….”
Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:14 pm
Okay, GetOverIt, now I feel bad. To make up for it, I’ll let you buy me a beer sometime
Comment by Rep. John Fritchey Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:20 pm
JB, are you looking for some free fodder to file some lawsuits?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:20 pm
@Fritchey. No problem hermano…a beer after a 12th District Victory. I will identify myself next time I spot you.
Comment by GetOverIt Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:24 pm
Chicago shouldn’t listen to Springfield?? What these municipalities don’t get is that they are creatures of the state — they exist because the state allows them to and they derive all their power from the state. This even applies to home rule units of government, which Chicago is.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:24 pm
George and Word — isn’t the Who’s Next song we should be singing “Won’t Get Fooled Again?” Except VM would rewrite it to something like “Sure to Get Fooled Again.”
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:37 pm
I think the “forensic audit” thing is largely a crock. It’s just a way for candidates and public officials to put off doing their jobs. “Once we get that forensic audit, then we can really go to work!” It’s all about kicking the can down the road, a way to talk about waste, fraud and abuse in general terms, without being specific. A way to talk about reform without actually doing it.
Certain people, like that new kid on the block whose ego is on overdrive and who now thinks he’s Super Abe, has sold people a bill of goods. A forensic audit saves nothing by itself. You still have to have leaders willing to make the changes and the cuts. And everyone in office now knows where cuts could be made. It’s an issue of political will, not lack of reports. There’s already plenty of information and recommendations out there from a lot of serious people.
In states where cuts or savings were made, it wasn’t any audit that got the job done. That’s just a stack of papers, a static report of a snapshot in time. Where states acheived savings, it was the leaders not some report that made it happen.
Besides, as any auditor will tell you, every audit is really “forensic” by definition. And the state has auditors doing audits of state agencies all the time. Always has.
I think some charlatans have glommed onto this forensic audit thing because it strikes a chord with many of the tea partiers who were pushing the “Audit the Fed” thing. But it’s all a phony panacea that’s not going to have the results some well intentioned people think. The conspiracy theories that drive some of these things just aren’t reality.
Bottom line, state government is less efficient and wastes more money than the private sector. That’s why it’s called state government.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:38 pm
=== Bottom line, state government is less efficient and wastes more money than the private sector. ====
Govt could never hope to waste money like the pivate sector. This is my favorite myth/folklore.
SHow me this compnay without waste? you mean the bankrupt car companies and banks whose CEO’s traveled in private jets - any one of which cost more then the entire state fleet of planes - to washington while earning million dollar salaries plus multi million dollar bonuses and stock option and golden parachutes paying them huge sums if they are replaced?
Or you mean the private company sponsored event at 1000 dollar a night hotels with free food, and golf…or those free golf course and club memberships, luxury cars and paid vacations….
The private sector is all about wasting money. I would bet you cannot show me a single company with 50,000 plus employes that does not far exceed the State in wasteful spending. The State is streamlined and constrained compared to the private companies of the same size or larger.
Go read barbarians at the gate; and that was constrained spending compared to corporate culture today.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 12:53 pm
Waguespeck has less charisma than Dan Hynes. That might be negative charisma. I like him, but I can’t take him running for Mayor seriously,
As for Congressman Fritchey’s problems with Alderman Wags, oops I mean future Commissioner Fritchey, it probably either involves Wags independence from Fritchey or Fritchey’s jealousy that Wags can actually see his own reflection in a mirror.
Comment by Won't Be Matlaked again Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:00 pm
Under Mayor Daley’s logic, he should listen to? Governor Perry of Texas? That said, all we need is for the state legislature to deny otherwise worthy CTA funding increases, which hurts poorer Chicagoans in the pocketbook and, to the extent it drives more people to cars, hurts the environment and every other oil-related worthy cause.
Comment by lake county democrat Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:07 pm
Ghost: Absent from your argument is that private companies are exactly just that — private. Corporate jets and $1,000 a night hotel stays are the perogative of the company. But government must be even more mindful that they are not spending their money — they are spending taxpay money.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:08 pm
Just sayin-
Interestingly enough, after talking to mammy auditors including those in the Big 4, I can conclude with authority that you do not know what you are talking about. In the war against anonymous blog commenter Heroes and Super Abe, bet on Super Abe.
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:09 pm
– Interestingly enough, after talking to mammy auditors…–
I’m guessing their names were Al Jolson and Hattie McDaniel. Is this the next great thing after forensic audits?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:15 pm
Wordslinger-
It must be hard to interact with someone who doesn’t feel the knee-jerk reaction to tow the Mike Madigan line ever second…
Would you like a hug?
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:24 pm
Lighten up, JB, it’s just a bit of fun. Your mention of Madigan a non sequitur, but I can give you a categorical negatory on your question.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:30 pm
JO, I was addressing the myth that private companies do not waste money; that private companies are free to waste money is a different topic. That private companies are not spending tax dollars is inaccurate, a number of them are recievein tax dollars, but that said it is a red herring point.
Once againt, the privat sector wastes gobs of money, it is a myth that the private sectore ismore streamlined or efficient using profit as an perational guidline.
We could run the State for profit, just like a private compnay. No more “tax” dollars. We will just send bills for all the services. So instad of a percentage of your income, we will charge you a prorated fee forthe police, fire etc etc in your community, but we will set the aount so that we earn a profit
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:37 pm
wordslinger-
What makes you think I wasn’t having some fun at your expense? Do you really think I want to give you a hug?
Ghost-
Some services the state provides could very easily be turned into a self-funding model… say, for instance, McPier. Heck, almost everything in the Secretary of State office should be self-funding. But just because some could be self-funding, doesn’t mean all should be.
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:45 pm
Ghost: Your points are well taken and I would not argue that complete efficiency is possible in either the private or public sector. Though I would argue what many people refer to as waste in the public sector is not mere inneficients, but rather deliberate, highly questionable spending. Legislative scholarships would be one example. Cook County Circuit Court Clerk Dorothy Brown’s taxpayer funded entourage of security guards would be another. Highland Park Park District’s recent uncovering of grossly inflated salaries for their staff is yet another. Perhaps, it would be more accurate not to call this waste, but rather thoughtless spending.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:53 pm
JB I agree
I was attempting to illustarte a point about running govt under a for profit model and replacing the tax moel with a fee model would mostly be a semantical or more costly change.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 1:54 pm
we can still try to stop the TIF nonsense no matter who
does or does not run for mayor. even if Daley runs
unopposed, TIFs are of concern for municipalities and
finance.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 2:20 pm
Ghost, I think you’re talking about waste and boondoggles in publicly traded companies within the private sector, most of them involving do-nothing CEOs who’d finance lavish personal lifestyle’s on the company dime before being pushed out with the comfort of a golden parachute.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 2:24 pm
It’s time to get rid of Daley; I don’t really care who beats him or if we have to have the feds do the dirty work again. I just want my city back, which won’t happen until Daley is gone!
Comment by fedup dem Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 2:50 pm
Word as my primary illustrations yes.
I am all for cutting aste from governemnt and reviewing its spending….but I am on a personal crusade to end the myth that a large company is a streamlined machine of efficiency. Microsoft has mired itself in beuracracy to rival any governemnt; so much so that gates forced the x-box project into an independent operaion just show it could move forward without being strangeled to death by the home office.
perhaps govt just needs more TPS reports and red staplers…
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 3:50 pm
My sense is that the idea of Daley being a good manager is largely marketing. When he first ran for office, they couldn’t say he was an inspiration speaker and leader because it wasn’t true. They couldn’t say he would take political control and exert order, because while true, it wouldn’t get enough votes to win. So instead his team developed the marketing tag line “he’s a good manager” and repeated it as a mantra.
Lets face it many of our impressions of politicians has more to do with marketing than reality.
In the Mayor’s defense I don’t think he is a bad manager, but just average. I also truly believe he loves Chicago and wants the best for the City. I also don’t think he is getting kickbacks or is personally corrupt (But he likes helping his friends too much.)
Comment by Chicago Guy Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 4:13 pm
Government is the definition of inefficiency, Ghost.
There are commonly 3 criteria used to determine efficiency:
1.) Lowest unit cost production. Taking road construction as just one example, government insistence on “fair wage” provisions increase per mile construction costs by billions of dollars.
2.) There is a perfect balance between effects, e.g. no one is made better without someone being made worse. I guess we can consider the government almost perfectly efficient here since each program and government employee makes every taxpayer worse. Seriously, compare the DMV to the Apple Store to see the difference in service quality.
3.) No more can go out without some more going in. Again, I guess the government is perfectly inefficient here because we are always told that taxes must rise to maintain current levels of service.
I guess I’m really saying that efficiency isn’t the only metric that should be used to measure government, and it is really inappropriate to compare the public and private sector. The real measurement is bang for the buck, or as I have called it the appropriate role of government (I was beaten about the face and neck for talking about this on CapFax a few months ago). Assuming no fraud, all systems involving humans within an understandable range of efficiency. The major difference is in the private sector, inefficient use of assets is quickly corrected because input to the system is limited by the budgets allowed by the stakeholders. In the public sector, things linger on and on because one element is open ended, the input to the system is virtually unlimited, fueled by taxpayer dollars.
Comment by Cincinnatus Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 4:18 pm
“Forensic audit” in the 2010 version of “Zero Based Budgeting” … .
Both can work, but require so much time to implement they are impractical to be done government wide all at once. If Brady wins and orders a “Forensic audit” of the entire state, either: (1) it will be 2014 before it is done; or (2) the entire state will shut down for six - twelve months while service delivery staff answer questions. And are there enough “forensic auditors” to do this?
If they really want to save money, the “forensic audit” would start with “member initiatives” and “college scholarships” and “CDB projects” and “IDOT projects” … .
Comment by Smitty Irving Wednesday, Aug 25, 10 @ 8:12 pm
C those are not ineffciencies, they are pat of the market place protection which is required to make sure our economy does not collapse.
1. This is inefficient in the same way anti slavery provisions create inefficiency. We also proibt people from taking a constuction workers money and property at gun point.
2. The DMV people were very nice to me. The Apple store, I could not get ayone to wait on me or acknowledge I was in the store. when i complained abut my iphone 4 problem the head of the company said to stop whining and hold the phone differently!!! In the privat sector the highest rate of turnover is in call centers and customer servce where they can not keep employees for more then 2 years on avergae. I could also tell you baout thehorbbile customer service from comcast and other privat companies, but I digress.
This is another myth. people dislike the DMV, but they are not treated nay better at comcast, ATT&T or thelocal car dealer when they have a prolem.
Comment by Ghost Thursday, Aug 26, 10 @ 8:51 am