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The Sun-Times has a good roundup of the latest developments in the hate crimes commission fiasco.
A fifth member of the commission, attorney Alan J. Spellberg, plans to resign to protest Claudette Marie Muhammad’s continued presence on the panel and her reluctance to apologize for the Nation of Islam leader’s remarks, which critics have called anti-Semitic. […]Word of Spellberg’s resignation came as Muhammad, the Nation of Islam’s minister of protocol and a top Farrakhan aide, took to Chicago’s airwaves to explain why she won’t repudiate her leader’s assertion that “Hollywood Jews'’ promote homosexuality and other “filth.'’ […]
On Monday, as the story began attracting attention across the country, Blagojevich declined to say whether he had spoken to Muhammad after Farrakhan’s speech. He also would not answer whether his continued backing of her is tied to concerns over alienating African-American voters, who are vital to his winning re-election. […]
Meanwhile, the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Jewish United Fund/Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago, an umbrella organization representing 46 Jewish groups, praised those who quit the commission.
Read the whole thing.
Even Lt. Governor Pat Quinn is piling on.
“I think she should resign, and if she doesn’t resign the panel ought to be disbanded,” Quinn said Tuesday night. “The purpose of the commission is to bring people together and it’s clearly not serving its purpose.“Personally, I think Sister Muhammad has had ample time to repudiate the anti-Semitic remarks of Louis Farrakhan and she’s not doing that.”
But Rick Garcia of Equality Illinois continues to defend Muhammad, and he seems to have good reason.
Garcia said he attended the Saviours’ Day speech at Muhammad’s invitation, following the February commission meeting at which Muhammad suggested the panel ask the governor for a proclamation welcoming the Gay Games to Chicago in July. […]“If I did not know Claudette Muhammad, if she didn’t sit across the table from me, I could easily say, ‘Get rid of her,’” he said. “But I know her. I wish that she had had a stronger statement about Minister Farrakhan’s remarks. But I just go back to this: I have never, ever heard her say or seen her do anything that is antithetical to the mission of this commission.”
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 5:10 am
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The real issue is that the Emperor has no clothes. All style and no substance. Hiding out and avoiding the issue(s)he created just reinforces my belief that he is disinterested and unable to perform his official duties. His continued pandering to the ‘voting block of choice’ repulses me. Let’s just hope he joins the unemployment line this November.
Comment by Outraged, again Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:25 am
“…the honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan…”?
Sister Muhammad
Wow. She obviously is in lockstep agreement with everything he says. No wonder she won’t repudiate the “honorable” hate speech.
BTW - What are you getting out of this, Garcia? What’s your payoff for selling out?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:30 am
Wow it must ge election year Quinn has spoke.
Comment by DOWNSTATE Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:37 am
It is not just about how “out of touch” Blagojevich is with mistakes being made by his staff but, the most telling tale of it all is how Blagojevich lacks the ability or desire to fix the mistakes that they have been made. This “inappropriate appointment” that Blagojevich made based on the advice of one of his staff could have been easily and quickly corrected but Blago failed to do so. Why? Is it arrogance or ego? Could it simply be indifference? That is what this is really all about. Blago prefers to “skip over” or ignore his mistakes and blunders. That is the really frightening part of this story regarding Sister Muhammad. It is a bit like Nero continuing to fiddle while Rome burned. Indifference is the operative word for Rod Blagojevich.
Comment by Beowulf Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:51 am
“… Rod slammed the door of his (gas guzzling) SUV and drove off…”
HALLELUJAH!!!
We have have been waiting for the day that guy shut his mouth.
IT”S HERE!!!
Now if only he would keep it shut.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:15 am
Blagojevich can not ignore this. Obviously it’s an election year, but this is not going to go away until he resolves this by asking her to leave or dissolving the commission.
It’s an indefensible position, and it’s shameful.
Comment by Backyard Conservative Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:22 am
The biggest loser seems to be Lou Lang, the erstwhile Dem. gov. aspirant. Lang’s flip-flop last week, joining and withdrawing from the Commission with 24 hours was the buzz at my synagogue last week. This is on top of his flip-flopping on who he supports for governor. Last summer he was bad mouthing Blago. Recently he has been brownnosing him. Now I hear he’s supporting Eisendrath. Lang now has no credibility in the Jewish community. Now I wouldn’t vote for him for local dogcatcher. I, and many of my friends, have decided to vote for Richard Reeder for Niles Township Committeeman, a man of trust and integrity, someone who gives hiw word and stays with it.
Comment by emmes Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:23 am
Blago made a calculated decision not to alienate one group of voters that have consistently been favorable to him in the polls. Problem is: he did not anticipate the snowball effect. We’ll hear something from him as soon as the polls are effected. He loves his polls!
Comment by Shallow Pharnyx Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:26 am
Claudette Johnson suggested that the Commission ask the Governor for a proclamation welcoming the Gay Games? Boy, I sure see why you guys think she’s in lockstep with Farrakhan and should be booted from the Commission. I take back everything I said. She’s clearly a homophobe, so she must be anti-Semitic too.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:45 am
You can bet your bippy that Garcia is on the take concerning this one. He has lost almost as much credibility as sister Muhammad on this one and really is damaging his very own cause. He needs to get a dose of testicular verality!
Comment by Paul Powell Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:57 am
P.S. Emmes, your lies are shameful and you know it. Lang isn’t supporting Eisendrath, and if the Jewish community decides not to support Lang over this tempest in a teapot, it’s their loss. I have no doubt Lang will continue to support the Jewish community regardless, as he has his entire career, because that’s the kind of guy he is.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 8:01 am
I bet the good folks in McHenry would reconsider the Gay Boating games if we had Garcia rowing in a gally as punishment…
Blagojevich should resign and let Pat Quinn be gov.
Comment by Bill Baar Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 8:01 am
YDD:
Lang may be supportive of the Jewish community, but that makes him no less the buffoon for his two rather large flip flops. He can’t decide if it’s better for his career to love or hate the Governor, he can’t decide if he’s tolerant or intolerant of Sister Muhammed’s (sp?) non-decryment (if that’s a word) of Farrakhan’s speech.
The fact is that he’s been relatively wishy washy, and it may be a good idea to send him a message that the constituency is a little fed up with it. In this election, that message is voting for Reeder.
Comment by Nice Suit Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 8:26 am
Nice Suit -
Lang decided to support the Governor because he believed the Governor really has had a change of heart, and has started listening to and working with the Legislature. Did you notice that the Governor is backing a version of Lang’s plan to make college affordable?
And I take Lang at his word, because his word has always been good, that he accepted the appointment on the Commission because he hoped to moderate the controversy, and when he decided that his presence on the committee was creating more controversy than it solved, he left.
Lang is a great concensus builder, but even he understands that you can’t bring peace unless both sides want it. That’s why the U.N. Peacekeepers are called “Peacekeepers” and not “Peacemakers”.
And I don’t think that’s wishy-washy at all. In fact, when our President gets the country into a conflict where we are making things worse, not better, and refuses to admit it, I have harsh words for him.
Maybe you’d be happy if Lang acted more like Bush, and I guess that’s what Reeder offers.
Like I said, if voters decide not to support Lang, I think it’s their loss. But if they want to send him a message, rather than voting for a Bush protege like Reeder, I suggest they pick up the phone and call Lang at 847-673-1131 or e-mail RepLouLang@aol.com. Lang’s always been accessible and loves to hear from constituents.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 8:50 am
Yellow Dog Democrat—Are you nuts?
Rich Reeder has been a progreesive Democrat all his life. He was one of Jan Schakowsky’s early supporters in Niles Township. Now you’re calling him a “Bush protege”—that’s libelous and shame on you.
Comment by jabotinsky Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 9:12 am
YDD:
“Maybe you’d be happy if Lang acted more like Bush, and I guess that’s what Reeder offers.”
Definitely libelous. I’m certain that you haven’t read up on Reeders bio and his background. Judging books by their covers is inherently ignorant.
For the record, when I was one of Lang’s consituents, my calls to his office were sparsely replied to, and never by Lang himself. I thought it was because he was too busy doing the State’s business. When I moved to the City and into Fritchey’s district, I found out how a State Rep really interacts and supports his people.
And as for Lang being a great consensus builder, I’m curious to see what consensi he has built?
With respect to the Governor working with him, I think that’s pretty obvious that Rod realizes he needs Lang, and the voters that appear to blindly follow him. Up to this point, there have been no viable choices of opposition to his elected offices.
Realize YDD, Lang is still going to be your State Rep, but as far as committeeman…it might do you well to really investigate all of your options.
Comment by Nice Suit Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 9:36 am
I thought that Garcia’s comments concerning Sister Claudette’s position on the Commission in today’s Tribune webcast - I don’t buy the Trib - were the only classy remarks from the start of the conflagration.
“If I did not know Claudette Muhammad, if she didn’t sit across the table from me, I could easily say, ‘Get rid of her,’†he said. “But I know her. I wish that she had had a stronger statement about Minister Farrakhan’s remarks. But I just go back to this: I have never, ever heard her say or seen her do anything that is antithetical to the mission of this commission.â€
Comment by Pat Hickey Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 9:37 am
Garcia says he has never “heard her say or seen her do anything that is antithetical to the mission of this commission.â€
Perhaps Mr. Garcia should explain how being a high ranking official in a church that explicitly teaches that peace and equality among the races is impossible, and that now is the time for separation of whites and blacks in this nation is not antithetical of the commission’s mission. If there is an explanation, I’d like to hear it. But no one can tell me it’s not a valid question. And Ms. Johnson & her backers have yet to offer a direct answer.
Can anyone here offer one? YDD?
I think there is much more to this issue than just the anti-Semitism that Farrakhan regularly espouses in his sermons. This is about the very tenants of the NOI itself, which is very relevant to Johnson’s suitability for this commission because of her day job there. The NOI is about as racially tolerant as Bob Jones University. I am ashamed every time I see the pictures of Mr. Bush campaigning there. I don’t understand why YDD and his fellow partisans aren’t equally ashamed of the Governor’s defense of Ms. Johnson.
Someone help me out here.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 9:51 am
I would have to say that someone believes in, supports and follows “The Muslim Program” tenants as posted on the NOI site, then one does not have to make a verbal public statement to prove their position on the entire commission issue.
Just adhering to and not denouncing even a small portion of that manifesto says who and what you are. Plain and simple.
Comment by Papa Legba Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 10:52 am
sorry, my first sentance should read “someone who believes in”.
Comment by Papa Legba Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 10:54 am
Jabotinsky and Nice Suit -
It was Emmes who said that Reeder, like Bush, stays the course, even in situations like these where the current course isn’t working. If you don’t like the word protege, I’ll say that Reeder is modelled after Bush in this respect. Feel better?
GOP - I suggest that you go back and re-read Garcia’s comments, and the fact that it was Johnson who suggested the panel back the Gay Games. Clearly, she doesn’t hold all of Farrakhan’s views or the views of the NOI, just as not all Republican elected officials hold Pres. Bush’s views or the views of the Republican Party.
But it’s pure bigotry to hold one person to one standard and everybody else to a different standard. So, unless you also think that the ADL’s executive director should publicly disavow support for his organization’s anti-Arab views, etc., I suggest that you adopt a different line of attack.
By the way, there’s a word for folks who want to hold others to a standard they are unwilling to apply to themselves. Normally, you’re very above-board and I have great respect for your opinions. But I think the smell of blood in the water has everybody a little feverish, so please consider this:
Your party’s standardbearer in Illinois, Judy Baar Topinka, likes to call herself a moderate. By your standard, she can’t be unless she rebukes her own party’s leaders. So, when Judy Baar Topinka issues her press release blasting Bush and the administration for their intolerance toward gays and women’s rights, and the way they’ve allowed blacks in New Orleans to be segregated as second class citizens, you’ll have every right to call on Claudette Johnson to do the same with her organization.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:12 am
This Rick Garcia involvement is the most bizarre part of this entire episode and begs the question: What’s in it for him? Why is he defending this awful decision so aggressively? Could it be because he has Blago coming to an event on March 13th and doesn’t want to piss him off? Credibility is a tall price to pay for a silly meet and greet.
I pulled an old quote from online of Garcia attacking a some Catholic advocate during the gay rights bill debate: “You cloak your anti-gay sentiment in the name of religion.” It’s ironic, and more than strange, that he isn’t willing to use that quote now against the Nation of Islam.
Comment by Curious George Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:21 am
GOP-I’m not sure I answered your entire question. By your definition, no Republican can serve on the Commission without first rebuking President Bush, since the GOP Party platform - it’s “tenets” - are intolerant toward gays, women, and other minorities.
I’m not criticizing Johnson, because I take her at her word that she supports the Commission’s goals, which seems to be backed up by her actions, as Garcia points out. If the Governor had appointed Farrakhan or Claudette Johnson were publicly defending Farrakhan’s words, instead of merely refusing to publicly attack him, I would probably agree with you.
It’s the same benefit of the doubt that I like to give to members of your party who claim not to share the GOP’s bigoted views.
I don’t think Claudette Johnson should be deprived of that benefit-of-doubt just because she is a Muslim or black or a woman. She still has a mind of her own, despite what some people seem to think.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:24 am
Curious George -
Go back and reread the post. Claudette Johnson isn’t anti-gay. She proposed the panel back the Gay Games. It’s pretty evident that Garcia is judging Johnson on her actions, as I’ve suggested we should do all along. Clearly, she doesn’t share Farrakhan’s views as they’ve been portrayed by critics, as she said she supports the goals of the Commission.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:29 am
YDD: “Claudette Johnson were publicly defending Farrakhan’s words, instead of merely refusing to publicly attack him, I would probably agree with you.â€
From today’s Sun Times article:
“For those who try to condemn me because of the honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan’s remarks on Saviours’ Day, which were perceived by some as anti-Semitic, it’s ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous,'’ she (Ms. Johnson) told WVON-AM.
Isn’t saying that Farrakhan’s words as merely being “perceived by some as anti-Semetic†sort of like defending them?
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:30 am
By the way, if you want to chastise an official who does have dangerous views, go read the Sun-Times article on Steve Rauschenberger’s ongoing campaign to teach Creationism in Illinois public schools.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:32 am
Okay, Yellow Dog, let’s judge her by her actions. Her action is that she is a paid leader of the Nation of Islam which has a blantant, decades long history of anti-semitic and anti-gay statements. Her action is that she refuses to condemn one of the most bigoted men in public life. I’m willing to judge her based on those actions and base my decision that she should resign.
Comment by Curious George Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:39 am
YDD, please give me a link to one thing on the ADL’s website that is “anti-Arab.â€
If Ms. Johnson supports the Gay Games, more power to her. That’s great. I’d like to know if she really thinks all white people are sub-human, unevolved creatures created by a mad scientist, like the founder of her church taught. I’d like to know if she thinks it is impossible for whites and blacks to co-exist peaceably in this country, as her church proclaims in bold face font as one of it’s central beliefs.
And I’d like to know why you think these are questions out of line to be asked of a member of the Governor’s Commission on Hate Crimes and Discrimination.
This isn’t about Judy Baar or George Bush, or the people of New Orleans. This is about a person who is a high ranking official in a church that preaches racism and bigotry being appointed to our state’s Commission of Hate Crimes and Discrimination, and her refusal to issue anything other than a vague, non-committal statement regarding some rhetoric to which the state’s Jewish population took as greatly offensive.
I really think you are on the wrong side of this issue. And it has nothing to do with partisanship. It is simple common sense and decency.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:42 am
We can get to Steve later there, YDD. Right now, I’m more concerned about the high ranking official from a church that says my race is sub-human and that racial harmony is impossible and thus not even worth pursuing being appointed to the Commission on Hate Crimes and Discrimination. It may be a matter of opinion, but I think those views are more dangerous than Creationism.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:45 am
GOP -
First, she didn’t say “merely” perceived, she said “perceived”. In other words, she acknowledged the fact that people were hurt by his words while implying that he did not intend them as anti-Semitic. I know it doesn’t make sense to you or me, but it’s the exact same view that the Catholic church takes on homosexuality: hate the sin, love the sinner. In both faiths, it makes sense to them.
As for Johnson, you conveniently ignore that those views are the views of her church and it’s leader, not her own, and the only evidence that you offer is that she is a high-ranking official in the organization.
If we can so readily accept that a high-ranking Republican official does not share the views of George Bush or the Republican Party, only bigotry would lead us to deny Johnson the very same benefit of doubt.
As for which is more dangerous, the Nation of Islam and its segregationist views, or GOP Conservatives and their Creationist views, I’d say the chances of a separate black state being created are as close to zero as you can get, while Creationism is popping up all over the country and supported by 3 out of 4 GOP nominees for Governor in Illinois.
So, I’d say Creationism is clearly a bigger danger.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 12:03 pm
Why do Arab and Jewish homosexuals mix in Tel Aviv? Because Israel is the only country in the Middle East where homosexuals can live in freedom.
from Queers against Terror.
Garcia should take note.
Comment by Bill Baar Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 1:11 pm
Anybody interested in a sworn statement about Claudette Johnson and Minister Farrakhan? I can get you one.
Comment by Marty Kovarik Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 1:37 pm
Marty, call me.
Comment by Edwin E. Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 1:41 pm
YDD - This is not your personal blog. Please stop dominating it. Say what you want and get out. You obviously want the last word on everything. We do not want to keep reading your latest rant and comebacks. GOP - you’re getting to be a pest too - chill!
We already know how both you guys feel about this issue. Thankyouverymuch - move along.
Back to the point: Can anyone discover if there are ties between this administration and the NOI that warrant this kind of embarrassing support? It is so difficult for even me to believe that Blagojevich really thinks this entire disaster will just magically disappear. He must be getting something for his endorsement in some way.
Is is possible that Blagojevich has something even more embarrassing to cover if he demands his appointee to step down? Some kind of fear that the NOI has something on him to discredit him further than what he has already experienced?
I’m sounding conspiratorial, and I hate that. But when we are kept in the dark with no decent explaination as to why this injustice still stands, you start wondering what else is up.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 1:52 pm
YDD-
One more time. If Claudette Johnson believes in the tenents of the NOI mission statement, or “The Muslim Program”, and she does not denounce any of the contents, what does that ultimatly say about her?
I think it say it all.
Comment by Papa Legba Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 2:23 pm
Ultimately, it appears that YDD and I are getting stuck on one question that is preventing either of us from making any headway with the other: We disagree about the extent to which we can assume that a high ranking official of a church agrees with it’s teachings. I think it is safe to assume that, unless she explicitly says otherwise, Ms. Johnson believes in the beliefs of the church for which she is Minister of Protocol (btw, YDD, Churches tend to be a little stricter about this than political parties). Beliefs which, it would clearly seem, are incompatible with the goals of the commission.
VannillaMan, I hear you, and I apologize for my part in protracting this debate. You are right, I think I have made my case, and I doubt I’m going to change the minds of any posters here who disagree with me.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 2:47 pm
Yeah, let’s move on.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 2:49 pm
Well, Well, Well, someone welcome Lt. Governor Patrick Quinn to the State of Illinois.
It’s only about time that he take a stance or position for or against what happens in the Office of the Governor. Taking the dark quiet rode is not the solution to the problem which is how this mess got started from the beginning.
Further, Lt. Gov. Quinn has not said enough yet. Has he faced the Governor with his opinion?
Lastly, where is Attorney General Lisa Madigan who is also a member of the Commission. As the Illinois Attorney General and a member of the Commission if Rod can’t fix this, who can?
Question for Rod while I’m at it, Rod which one of your staff members appoints to Boards and Commissions? Why are they remaining quiet while this fiasco is going on? Why haven’t he or she stepped forward and admitted to being the person who started this and introduce a remedy to fix it.
Or will the Governor’s office continue to keep quiet while the entire country watches Illinois At War Over its Discrimination and Hate Crimes Commission?
There’s a lot more to be said, but I’ll hold off till later.
Comment by ONE MAN CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 4:14 pm
Nation of Islam and Dems
Why the hell do any Dems worry about this right wing nuthouse of an organization? It’s essentially a fundamentalist version of Islam crossed with a cult, a good dab of social conservatism, a platter of homophobia, a nice touch of…
Trackback by ArchPundit Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:07 pm
NOI is an extremist group. The extremes meet on the ideological circle.
An NOI official does not belong on a hate crime commission when its leader spews hate speech.
It’s intellectually lazy and bigoted to make no distinction between people of faith.
Comment by Backyard Conservative Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 6:49 pm
YDD: “It was Emmes who said that Reeder, like Bush, stays the course, even in situations like these where the current course isn’t working.”
What Emmes actually said:
“I, and many of my friends, have decided to vote for Richard Reeder for Niles Township Committeeman, a man of trust and integrity, someone who gives his word and stays with it.”
Ha, who knew character could be a vice!
Comment by Bears Fan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 7:19 pm
As a WASP, I don’t really have a god… I mean dog… in this fight, but I have to say I for one am fascinated at the total silence out of Team Blago since his initial words sticking up for Muhammad and the initial resignations.
While I’ve thought Blago really put his foot in his mouth a time or two during other crises with his “prizefight between accountants” and “testicular virility” soundbites, it is interesting to see the Blago response for once being to say and do nothing rather than say and do too much. I guess maybe they thought they said and did too much trying to get Lou Lang to mediate, but still very odd they would just let this story hang out there and not try and come up with something else to distract from it.
Comment by These are our choices? Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 9:34 pm
Rick Garcia is really the person who can lose the most out of this circus, all the work he has done for equal rights for the gay community will be forgotten and He is becoming irrelevant, He is a hypocrite who attacks the catholic church for its stand on gays but lets Louis Farrakhan off the hook. Read the gay message boards, they are furious with him. I heard he was afraid to come out to the first Friday events.
Comment by cubs fan Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:02 pm
Pardon my extreme ignorance, cubs fan, but where does one find gay message boards?
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Mar 8, 06 @ 11:06 pm
VanillaMan -
I’d rather not respond, but when folks direct their comments AT me or refer to me directly, it seems they are asking me to, so I oblige. I’m happy to agree to disagree with GOP, a wise and goodhearted soul.
Bearsfan - you left out a big part of that, the part where emmes criticizes Lang for joining and then leaving the Commission. Since emmes says Reeder, by contrast, is someone who “stays with it”, I can only conclude Reeder would have stayed on the Commission. Oh yes, and would either always support the Governor, no matter what he did, or never support the Governor, no matter what he did.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Mar 9, 06 @ 12:06 am
Rich a few boards are http://www.epitonic.com/message/message_board.jsp?MB.board_ref=2047
planet out message board http://www.planetout.com/msgbrd/list.html?board=45
but I really ment to say chat rooms, my bad.
Comment by cubs fan Thursday, Mar 9, 06 @ 12:14 am
Thanks, BTW GOP, for your civil debate. Although I’d disagree with you on how strict churches are about their leaders adhering to their faiths, in part because my great grandfather was and my grandmother is clergy, but mainly because the Catholic church has provided us with some pretty harsh evidence over the past decade or so that official church teachings don’t necessarily trickle down, especially between generations.
I will agree with others who have said that at this point, about the only way this moves forward is for Blagojevich to scrap the whole Commission and we start from scratch. I look forward to this debate in another three and a half years.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Mar 9, 06 @ 12:16 am
YDD - Thanks, well said
Comment by grand old partisan Thursday, Mar 9, 06 @ 8:44 am
Emmes, That great bastion of character, ethics and integrity, Rich Reeder, DID NOT file his required pre-election report with the State Board of Elections?
So what is Mr. Integrity hiding?
Comment by WTF Thursday, Mar 9, 06 @ 9:55 am
Nice
Comment by Zaharias Wednesday, Jun 6, 07 @ 4:25 am
Nice!
Comment by Harrys Wednesday, Jun 6, 07 @ 3:50 pm