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[I deleted the old post in which I made a grievous error. Not enough coffee, I suppose, because I reported on it correctly last week, but not this week. Sheesh. I need another break. So, with apologies, let’s try this again.]
* From Illinois Review…
Senator Matt Murphy (R-Palatine) says the bill he plans to introduce to repeal the Democrats’ tax hike isn’t a hopeless Hail Mary cause to save the state from becoming the highest taxing government in the industrial world as many may believe. KMOX radio reports:
He says with 54 republicans in the Illinois House and 24 G.O.P. members in the state senate along with some Democrats who support the repeal there is actually a majority opposition to the tax hike in both chambers of the general assembly.
[Begin new content]
Sen. Murphy is right and this could be a constant refrain among Republicans for the next two years, just like it has been in DC with “Obamacare.” Plus, the Republicans will now have something to hold over those Democrats who voted “No” on the income tax hike. If they “truly” are opposed to the tax hike, then, the logic will go, they should join with the GOP to repeal it.
It’ll all be a parliamentary nightmare, I’m sure. But since many Republicans deep down (actually, not so deep because I talk to many of them on a regular basis) don’t want to go back to the bad old days of gigantic budget deficits, it’ll probably be just that: Parliamentary maneuvers. Unless, that is, they actually come up with another plan. Don’t bet on it. That’s not been the game for the past couple of years.
Again, sorry for that first post. I don’t know what got into me.
* Meanwhile, the Jacksonville Journal-Courier publishes the most bizarre online letters to the editor you’ve ever seen. For instance…
“OK, you’re saying the state is raising taxes for the welfare programs and we should be mad at those receiving it for they are the reason our taxes went up. Well, then, you would be a racist, because the majority of the money handed out and the assistance goes to Hispanics who are illegal in this country in the first place, but our state has given them millions of dollars each year. Check it out. Those who are legal citizens and of this state do not receive assistance before an illegal does, check that out also. The state created the debt and now wants to further loot and rape you, the legal citizen.”
And…
“Stop paying state income taxes, get real. Stop state spending, get real. As long as these people keep having kids without insurance and no visible means of support except for state aid, taxes will have to be increased regularly to pay the bills. As long as liberals expect criminals to be spoon-fed while in jails and prisons state, taxes will have to be increased regularly to pay the bills. The problem is not state spending but our ‘do as you please society.’”
And…
“Get rid of this stupid tax hike that stupid Quinn and his other crooks are imposing on us poor people of Illinois. What is wrong with this dumb idiot?”
I don’t think you’ll ever seen an editorial in that paper asking for an elevated national public discourse.
Sheesh.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:30 am
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Many Jacksonville residents believe that “open line” is an embarrassment. I’m sure that there are more coherent people who call in but the editors appear to select only the most ridiculous ones for print which only serves to add fuel to the fire. I am a resident and dropped my newspaper subscription over this and other reporting that I felt went beyond the pale.
Comment by Fed-Up Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:33 am
It’s still a stunt. Trying to pick off a couple of “yes” votes in the days before the vote would have been much more effective if the true motivation was killing the tax hike.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:39 am
Our Senator Matt is a sharp cookie. If there’s anyone who has a chance of getting it repealed it will be him. Having said that, I think the increase is justified. The only thing that I don’t agree with is that as a State we should have moved to a graduated income tax. The flat tax is wrong.
Comment by Palatine Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:39 am
A future would-be dictator’s case: “Why Democracy is Doomed to Fail– People Are Too Dumb to Govern Themselves”. Exhibit 1: The Jacksonville Journal Courier. We really, really need to raise the level of civic literacy and discourse in this country. Really we do.
Comment by HoosierDaddy Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:45 am
Palatine @10:39,
I agree with you that a graduated income tax would be better and fairer than a flat tax, but I believe a constitutional amendment would be required to allow it.
Comment by Northsider Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:46 am
===Our Senator Matt is a sharp cookie. If there’s anyone who has a chance of getting it repealed it will be him. Having said that, I think the increase is justified.===
WHAT?!?!?!
You think he can do it, but its justified to have it, BUT you think we should get more “revenue” but you are not for the flat tax, and Illinois should go to a graduated tax, which has nothing to do with the “revenue” being justified or repealed …
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:51 am
That was my post, sorry
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:52 am
My Esteemed Jacksonvillian Friend,
We no longer spoon-feed criminals in jail. The repetitive motion lead to too many workers’ compensation claims. Thank you for your concern regarding this matter. I hope this clears up the confusion and leaves you more time and energy to devote to your Doctoral thesis in doasyoupleasism.
Sincerely,
Fertile Liberal
Comment by zatarain Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 10:56 am
Does this mean Murphy will be the first in line to refuse any new state dollars for his district from the tax increase, like some Republicans did in other states when they disagreed with the federal TARP spending? Are there any public employees, public schools, or state service providers or contractors who rely on state dollars who might disagree with him?
Is Sen. Murphy the new stand-in for former Sen. Pate Phillip? (Something along the lines of “my suburban turf is an island and we don’t care about or need the rest of the state?”)
Have we seen those specific real and realistic budget-balancing details and numbers from the GOP yet? (Still waiting, honorable colleagues, still waiting.)
Comment by Statewide Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:01 am
===The only thing that I don’t agree with is that as a State we should have moved to a graduated income tax. The flat tax is wrong.===
Palatine, agree on the graduated tax. That’s what we get when a tax bill get’s worked in the middle of the night the last day of the lame duck session. Instead of a well thought out transparant tax bill that could be tweaked, properly vetted, the IL legislature only gets results via threats, crisis, deals, payback, etc.-all bad leadership traits.
Comment by Soccertease Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:02 am
Sorry for the double post. First one stuck in the system for five mins!
Comment by Statewide Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:02 am
The graduated income tax is no more fair than me robbing the largest house in Champaign. Having tax rates as percentages mean that the rich pay more. For those of you assailing the literacy of letter-writers in the crank section of the Jacksonville daily, you might want to review 3rd grade math.
Our federal tax system has reached the point where almost a majority of the country pays no taxes. Democracies (and by extension, democratic republics) fail because the public just starts voting themselves benefits out of the public treasury.
Ask yourself, if you could sit around and comment on CapFax all day and have all your needs met, health care provided, free internet and a roof over your head, why would you work?
Comment by John Bambenek Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:03 am
Having respect for ones Senator doesn’t mean that I have to agree with his actions. I choose to disagree without being disagreeable. And the best post of the day is: Instead of a well thought out transparant tax bill that could be tweaked, properly vetted, the IL legislature only gets results via threats, crisis, deals, payback, etc.-all bad leadership traits. Shame on our leaders.
Comment by Palatine Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:24 am
An affluent man lives in a big house bordered by a long stretch of public road that needs maintenance, plowing, and utilities. He drives his car to the publicly subsidized airport regularly for his big meeting in NYC or a nice vacation and flies on planes that are subsidized. The police and fire department are at the ready to protect all of his stuff. He eats well, typically food that was grown in some faraway land that is subsidized and then transported on public roads and through subsidized ports. He buys fancy electronics from firms that don’t pay a lot of corporate income tax. His investments are rescued when Wall Street makes “mistakes.”
The lower middle-class man rents his residence, takes the bus, might have cable TV, never gets on a plane, never uses the interstates, doesn’t own a car, and has no investments. His police and fire protection typically pale in comparison to what is provided to the more affluent.
Who’s benefiting more from the government’s role in American society? Should they both pay the same relative cost?
Comment by Lefty Lefty Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:26 am
If the tax increase is repealed, what is Sen. Murphy’s alternative proposal to fix the problem?
Comment by One of the 35 Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:26 am
=Our federal tax system has reached the point where almost a majority of the country pays no taxes=
I’m so tired of hearing this. 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax. But the income tax isn’t the only federal tax people pay for, and of course there are state and lcoal taxes too. 47% of American’s aren’t earning a tax-free income.
Comment by Emanuel Collective Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:35 am
The rich pay more in taxes because they have the most to lose in case of a popular uprising or invasion by a foreign power.
Comment by cermak_rd Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:40 am
JB is absolutely right. Additionally, combine the urge to do something for everyone, with a willingness of many to play the system, add that with a legislature that continually kicks the can down the road, you have a train wreck. Couple this with a disastrous economy and the fingers come out of the pocket to point to anybody but me.
Things are getting so tough, just yesterday I saw a legislator with his hands in his own pocket.
We want the good life but we don’t want taxes. We want someone else to pay, but not us. Sorry folks but we are in over our heads and sinking fast. Tax or cut….only two choices, or tax and cut?
Comment by Justice Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:45 am
I think your original main points were still solid Rich. But it’s refreshing to see someone acknowledge an error, no matter how small and technical.
In contrast we have Matt Murphy. The fact remains he and other Republicans are just playing their latest game. It’s beyond shameless to me how they can pretend to be outraged at the tax hike, when they are in fact happy about the tax hike. I especially don’t like how they expect all the rest of us to drop to their level and play this dishonest game of pretend.
And if Murphy wants to repeal the tax hike, what’s his counter budget plan? Answer, he’s got no budget plan beyond more gambling, which is arguably even worse than this tax hike.
Totally irresponsible behavior from Murphy and other GOP lawmakers.
The IL GOP thinks politics is just an excuse to be frat boys again. Nothing but stunts and gimmicks. When will they get some adults?
Comment by just sayin' Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 11:53 am
If Matt Murphy is a smart cookie, then Jason Plummer is the Cookie Monster.
Comment by piling on Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:00 pm
What’s the Democrats plan to balance the budget? I mean, sure bag on the ILGOP all you want, that’s fine, I think they should introduce a plan.
But the fact is, even if this tax increase took effect (with the borrowing) at the beginning of this fiscal year, we’re still $2B in a deficit. Assuming the tax increase has absolutely no economic impact, in 4 years, we’ll have a $15-$25B deficit (largely depending on economic growth).
We kicked the can down the road, that’s all we did.
When the spending caps are set (and we all know we’ll be spending right to that cap every year) above even the rosiest expectations of revenue, we just ensured we’ll be right back at the same place just in time for the first chunk of the tax increase to expire. And what will the discussion be then? Another tax hike.
I’m still waiting for the ILGA to repeal and end all the programs that they indicted Blagojevich for creating.
Comment by John Bambenek Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:00 pm
@John -
More cuts are on the way, rest assured.
They’ll be debated this Spring and enacted in May.
I’ve suggested we introduce means testing for funding local school districts and municipalities.
If Republicans want to defund state government - okeedokee. State government should start by cutting funding to their districts. When property taxes skyrocket there, maybe they’ll rethink their position.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:09 pm
Tax shifting isn’t cutting. This idea that if we cut state funding then local funding will be increased misses the point.
First, if the locals want local projects, they SHOULD fund it themselves.
Second, the point is to cut programs, not simply rearrange how they are funded.
I’d start by setting a goal to eliminate half of the units of local government by the end of 2012. Since we have something like 5 times the number of units of local government as California does, if I recall correctly.
As far as cuts being on the way… I believe it when I see it. And I mean actual cuts, not simply avoiding paying bills. That said, even if X, Y and Z programs are cut, the spending caps are still set ABOVE (and well above at that) the level of revenue we can expect. If we simply cut a few programs and still spend to that cap, it’s rather meaningless.
Comment by John Bambenek Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:15 pm
=Our federal tax system has reached the point where almost a majority of the country pays no taxes=
Hey, lay off Sen. Brady.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:29 pm
Tax shifting isn’t cutting. This idea that if we cut state funding then local funding will be increased misses the point.
You mean…what Texas is proposing to do? Or what IL conservatives want to do when they say that they want to end the Local Government transfers?
Comment by dave Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:32 pm
==Our Senator Matt is a sharp cookie.==
rofl
Comment by Bill Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:34 pm
One thing that I rarely hear discussed in the argument about graduated rates is that people with higher incomes are already giving more to society than people with lower incomes. There’s a reason doctors make more than busboys. I’ve never heard a good response. Income from inherited wealth? An inheritance tax targets that problem better. By saving and investing, rather than spending the inheritance, heir is contributing to society. People choosing to teach our kids rather than make more in business? If that’s your issue, the proper response is to pay teachers a fair wage. Lottery winners? The state wants you to play! etc.
Comment by Pat Robertson Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:37 pm
dave-
As I understand it, Texas is just cutting off the spigot and letting the locals figure it out.
Now I support ending the local government transfers because I support ending all “free money” that government spends because it’s almost always inefficiently spent. But just because one source of funding dries up does not mean it’s time to shop for another.
Many of us when faced with income going down reduce expenditures.
Convince me that every dime of local, county and state money is spent efficiently on things that need to be spent on and then we can talk about cost shifting.
It’s probably a mostly moot point considering the state of the pensions will simply overtake all spending on services and the idea bankruptcy will save us from that is somewhat more optimistic than warranted.
Comment by John Bambenek Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 12:40 pm
Lefty lefty, you forgot about the tax subsidized sports stadiums the affluent man attends, while the lower middle class man cant afford to take his family to a game.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 1:00 pm
If the Senate Democrats want to be smart about this repeal effort, one or two of them should sign on as co-sponsers. Then the debate can begin in earnest. What gets cut. What doesn’t. Where do the revenues come from.
The debate the GA has been avoiding for several long years now.
Or we can keep on raising taxes and making fun of all the businessmen who state they will pick up and leave the state until we turn into Michigan.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 1:29 pm
What are the Republicans planning to do about the Democratic plan to borrow 8 (or even 12? per Cullerton). Perhaps a little repeal/recall talk is part of the saber-rattling, but $12 billion, added to the planned $2 billion in spending increases over the next four years is, well, noticeable money, when you add it to this substantial tax increase. What will the state do with the extra 6 billion after the service agencies are paid. Big raises for legislators and all state employees perhaps? With billions of extra in state coffers, I wouldn’t expect Democratic restraint.
Comment by cassandra Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 1:49 pm
Cassandra,
That borrowing is to pay the backlog of bills, basically all at once very quickly. Without it, the deficit continues going forward as per the U of I chart posted yesterday because while the state will have more money and be able to pay more bills, it won’t be able to pay them all in a timely basis. The tax increase included a provision for financing this borrowing, but the follow up legislation to authorize the borrowing didn’t pass because it needs Republican votes. the portion to pay off the backlog is “temporary’ for 14 years and would then go away unless extended.
so that makes it one of the big issues early for the new session. Republicans have been complaining about businesses and schools and others not getting paid what they’re owed from the state. (think back to Rep. Black and the Jamaica School District’s 4-day school week plan to save gas money because the local filling station won’t give them gas on credit anymore because state’s so far behind).
So here’s a plan to pay them all. But if they support it, it pretty much undercuts the political repeal argument they hope to make for the next two years.
Choices, choices.
Pay our bills or easy campaign issue?
Comment by piling on Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 2:11 pm
So this would be Murphy’s Law?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 2:11 pm
–Or we can keep on raising taxes and making fun of all the businessmen who state they will pick up and leave the state until we turn into Michigan.–
Illinois is a very diverse economy and will probably survive the possible departure of JJ to Florida (he’ll stay if the price is right).
Michigan comparisons are really silly. That great state was dominated by the nascent auto industry it pioneered, then war production (for us, the Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Free French, Free Poles, Soviets and partisans throughout Europe and Asia) through the end of WWII.
They built production lines and took on population to churn out the Arsenal of Democracy. With the unexpected post-war boom, the auto industry kept growing. In 1950, half of the automobiles in the world were produced in Detroit.
They’ve been gearing down for about 40 years — it couldn’t last. Unless, of course, we wanted to keep our boots on the necks of the Japanese and Germans, or cheat our southern cousins out of their Japanese and Korean auto plants, once the Northern states rescued them from their economic backwater through the New Deal and the Civil Rights revolution.
Michigan doesn’t deserve the shots it takes from the wiseguys of 2011. The folks there did more for the growth of this country, and freedom around the world, then most.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 2:18 pm
Mr. Murphy please go away until you have something serious to offer.
Comment by just sayin' Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 3:58 pm
JS, how dare you question the seriousness of Andrew McKenna Jr.’s running mate! He gave Jason Plummer a heck of run for his money in the GOP primary.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 4:11 pm
JB, I say this with all seriousness. Most of the time you seem smart as a whip and someone with whom I intellectually disagree to some extent on some things. Other times it almost seems you are reading talking points. What gives?
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Jan 20, 11 @ 6:03 pm