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Question of the day

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Illinois

* The setup, from Doug Finke…

Some folks are screaming that the state should put its newly adopted recall amendment to good use and recall Gov. Pat Quinn.

It underscores one of the concerns people have about recall, namely that it could be used to oust someone just because they made an unpopular decision. Trying to avoid that is one reason the recall process now part of the state constitution is as convoluted as it is.

If you don’t like the income tax hike or that Quinn acceded to a much higher one than he talked about during the election, fine. Politics involves disagreements. But Quinn knows the state is in severe financial difficulty and took the steps, however unpopular, he thought best to deal with it.

Recall was aimed at dealing with the Rod Blagojeviches of the state. Whatever else you think of Quinn, he isn’t another Blagojevich.

* The Question: Agree or disagree? And, as always, make sure to explain yourself.

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:20 pm

Comments

Quinn is a terrible governor, but not a criminal. Save recalls for the crooks in office, not the incompetants. (And, in any case, it does not really matter since the weak legislators put so many hurdles in front of the recall provision that it would be nearly impossible to invoke anyway.)

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:23 pm
Agree,

Anyone who is calling for recall of Patt Quinn is a day late and a dollar short. Is Quinn goofy at times? Yes. Is Quinn impeachable, or deserving of recall? No. Finke is on target, only complete partisan loons (as far as I know) could possibly be calling for Quinn’s recall.

Comment by Living In Oklahoma Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:23 pm
Illinois doesn’t have a recall amendment. It has a piece of constitutional garbage written by the political class to make sure that a recall never actually happens.

That is what happens when the foxes, knowing that the hens are clucking, give them something to guarantee that the foxes keep running the hen house.

As for the point at hand, recall is a political tool, not a legal one. The standard is whether it can be pulled off, not whether Quinn did something wrong or illegal.

Even if IL had a recall amendment worth the name, Quinn wouldn’t be recalled for this. While hardly a mandate, the people voted to get take to the cleaners, and now they are getting what they voted for.

Comment by Bruno Behrend Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:28 pm
If we wanted to recall politicians who failed to keep campaign promises, we’d do nothing in this state but have recall elections. I agree that the new recall procedure is probably unconstitutional so there is really no need to even try to use it.

Comment by LouisXIV Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:32 pm
Quinn is like a bouncing ball on a gravel road. You never are certain about the direction. as far as I can surmise he did what anyone would have to do under the circumstances. It would be nice if he could drastically cut expenditures but not sure from where….so, here we are.

I think any recall effort is foolish at best. It could simply be a fund raising gimmick, but I fear it is simply vengeance or greed. Either way, it is beyond stupid.

Comment by Justice Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:35 pm
Silly season never ends in Illinois.

Comment by Aldyth Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:37 pm
Agree….Quinn is not like Blago, but thank the Lord, no one on the political scene is…you shake your head at Quinn, but you shook your fist at The Hair.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:42 pm
i agree. pat quinn is not anything like rod blagojevich, who clearly is a criminal and abused the power of the office.

but pat quinn isn’t bill brady, either, who already abused his office for personal gain. we should thank god every day that we didn’t elect another governor who was destined to end up in a federal penitentiary someday. we really need to end this practice of getting elected to office to pick the taxpayer’s pockets and derive some sort of personal gain. the one thing you can say about pat quinn is that at least he won’t end up in the federal pen…

Comment by bored now Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:50 pm
Agree. I cant believe we are even having to have this discussion. If you dont like what an elected official does, dont vote for that person. Or you could move like the Jimmy Johns guy. Recall is meant to deal with an elected official who engages in illegal activity while holding office.

Comment by anon Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:51 pm
“Whatever else you think of Quinn, he isn’t another Blagojevich.”

Agreed.

At worst, Quinn is the 1966 Chicago Cubs.

At best, Blago is the 1919 Chicago White Sox.

– MrJM

Note: Pitchers and catchers report in 23 days!

Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:52 pm
time to solve real problems, and Quinn is not a problem yet. disagree with him, maybe some do, but so far, not recall material.

Comment by amalia Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:55 pm
Once again we get to read some expert claim that we needed government to determine what is best to handle a problem that was created by government.

Do you believe in democracy? If an elected official makes an unpopular choice and a lame duck session passes it, why should they not recall? Quinn took a gamble. If enough voters consider it wreckless then yeah, start a recall.

If a majority wants someone out of office we need to remember that we do not have royalty. What are you afraid of? The same people who just voted him in?

Impeachment is for crooks. Recall is for incompetants.

Stop bashing democracy. We are smarter than they are. Bring it on. Let the people rule.

Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 1:56 pm
It doesn’t matter what recall was “aimed at”. Recall is and ought to be a *democratic prerogative* of an electorate. If the electorate believes that Quinn should be removed from office because he made a decision that they especially dislike, that is their right, and that should be their right.

I mostly agree with Mr. Behrend that the recall provision now in the constitution is designed to make sure it never happens. While I think recall should be difficult to implement, it should not be so absurdly difficult that it would essentially require a paid effort to pull it off. It should also not be so limited - all elected officials should be subject to recall, provided that the standards are stringent enough to make it improbable and yet not impossible.

Comment by Phil Huckelberry Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:01 pm
I agree with Finke and the first three comments here.

Recall as it is written here is a very high bar to reach - getting members of the GA of both parties to sign would require Blago-like malfeasance, not just unpopularity. I thought the recall requirements might have been too high at first, now they sort of make sense to me.

Comment by siriusly Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:03 pm
the recall thing is bs, elections have consequences.People had 2 years to judge quinn before he faced voters and still voted for him anyway. There are other means of more legitimate and substantial political action.

This, like a lot of stuff in Illinois politics is too much energy into a nonissue.

Comment by shore Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:07 pm
I agree that Quinn is not like Blago, but I disagree that people of the state cannot/should not use the recall amendment to get highly unpopular people out of office.

The recall amendment passed, weather the people with concerns like it or not. There is a process that is not easy, if someone is voted out, they most likely deserved it. It would at least be the will of the people.

Comment by Ahoy Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:09 pm
===Stop bashing democracy. We are smarter than they are. Bring it on. Let the people rule.===

Wow, what a load of gibberish. We are smarter than us? VM, are you wearing a tri-corner hat when you post?

To the question, I agree with Finke. Ironic that Quinn the populist, who in a previous career was a champion of gimmicks like recall, now may be the target of a recall effort.

Do you know what a conservative populist sounds like? Pay attention to VanillaMan’s comments.

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:10 pm
While I don’t think Quinn is as shallow and unintelligent as Blago was/is, he has shown a pattern of saying one thing one day and doing something completely contrary the next. Most regular people call that lying. Politicians are, of course, known for that, but most don’t completely toss what they said during a campaign as soon as they’re elected.

Quinn’s talk of a “mandate” to raise taxes after the election was also rather Blagojevich-esque since he won by less than a percentage point and didn’t even come close to getting half of those that voted.

I don’t think every Governor should be recalled every time they do something unpopular, but the law doesn’t say it’s there “to get rid of the Blagojeviches of the state.” It lays out what has to be done to get the process moving and to recall a governor.

This discussion is academic, though, because there’s no way the sitting legislature is going to try to oust Quinn with the alternative being a Gov. Simon.

Comment by Amuzing Myself Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:15 pm
While I disagree with PQ’s early decisions, I do not believe he has committed an impeachable offense.

In my mind, a governor would need to be reasonably guilty of a serious (eg felony) crime to be considered for impeachment.

Breaking campaign promises is a matter for the voters to deal with at the end of the term.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:17 pm
Agree. Elections have consequences. We have both elections and an impeachment process and between the two solutions, they should cover all possible scenarios. This isn’t a parlimentary system where people can call for votes of “no confidence” etc.

The recall amendment shouldn’t have passed. Even when it’s in place, it shouldn’t be used no matter how much I disagree with PQ’s policy decisions.

Comment by John Galt Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:19 pm
First of all, to Vman, we don’t live in a democracy, we live in a representative democracy, or a republic if you prefer. There’s a difference, a big one.

Our Constitution and our government was set up, in part, to protect both the minority and unpopular decisions made by government officials. If officials have to look over their shoulders every time they make a decision, they will not make the tough decisions. In Illinois case, that would mean spiraling further into debt (no, we can’t cut our way out).

For my part, I’ve always believed elections are the best form of recall.

Comment by Thoughts... Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:29 pm
“Impeachment is for crooks. Recall is for incompetants.”

VanMan is right but Quinn is niether-so bring it on all you sour grapers.

Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:36 pm
I find myself agreeing with Shore (and Finke).

Elections matter. Is the recall process difficult? Absolutely. Why? Because it shouldn’t be taken lightly. And it shouldn’t be the province of big moneyed interests with skin in the game.

Of course Quinn shouldn’t be recalled. That’s stupid. He took a legal and Constitutional step within the constraints of the legislative process to deal with a pressing state issue.

Comment by Bill F. Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:41 pm
Agree, While I disagree with Quinn’s actions he has done nothing close to warrant a recall YET. A year from now I may have a differing opinion.

Comment by downstate hack Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:43 pm
Full disclaimer: Not a PQ fan in even the lightest sense. However, due to the dysfunction of the ILGOP-he was elected fair and square.

We loose all credibility as a rational society when we get trigger happy with amendments such as this.
Give him time- I’m sure we’ll find several other ways to act on the amendment in the next couple of years and stronger supportive issues to send him to Fenwick high to teach. This is Illinois after all- anything goes.

Comment by Statesman Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:50 pm
Based upon the “democratic” voting on American Idol and the last teabag election, the last think we need is more “voting by clicker”–which is what recall really is. Recall encourages the petty and trivial response to individual issues as Gray Davis discovered. But even worse, it allows ambitious hacks like Darrel Issa, who funded the Gray Davis recall w/ the hope that he would become governor only to be trumped by Arnold. We have elections on a regularly scheduled basis that seem neverending now; we need not make them truly never ending.

Comment by D.P. Gumby Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 2:55 pm
Agree-
Quinn worked with the Legislature to pass this increase; there was nothing illegal about it. He did not do it by executive order. Blago listened to no one, failed to govern and manage the state, and hid at home. Quinn will face the consequences of his actions if he runs again, but did nothing to merit recall.

Comment by waitress practicing politics. . Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 3:26 pm
Doug Finke wrote: “More power to them, but just once it would be nice to see an actual plan from the Republicans on how they would deal with the deficit.”

Good for him. He’s absolutely right. The GOP is a joke in this state and I think people are getting sick of their lack of work and seriousness. And yet these same GOPers will all be shocked when 2012 and remap (combined with Obama on the ballot) is devastating for Illinois Republicans.

I honestly don’t know what it’s going to take to get some leadership on the R side.

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 4:50 pm
Agree,

PQ was elected - a fact I am unhappy with. What he is doing is in the regular course of business with the GA’s involvement and consent. I would rather the state did cost cutting up front along w/the tax increases. I know folk here say he has done that but we all know it ain’t enough, as we all know the tax increase ain’t enough.

I don’t like the idea of propositions or recalls. This is a representative republic. If we get involved in the day to day business of the state we would end up like, like, California, for cryin’ out loud. Propositions pop up there like mushrooms after a rain. Look how well that has worked out there.

I don’t like PQ. Didn’t vote for him. Won’t vote for him in the future. That is the kind of recall I think works best.

Comment by dupage dan Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 4:51 pm
I think the recall banter is ridiculous. PQ did nothing wrong, he violated no state law in signing the Income tax increase. This whole process highlights the insanity that has turned states like California into the basket cases they are now. People are passionate and knee-jerk.

Governments sometime have to make unpopular decisions. If we had a simple recall process. Illinois would be on the fast track to california like problems. Don’t even get me started on Ballot initiatives

Comment by uwaga Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 5:13 pm
I’m sorry guys, you aren’t going to get the 1M signatures on this even without the affadavit. Statewide recalls have happened twice in over a century. That’s not to say people haven’t tried. Probably a hundred times. Why are we crying about someone saying they want to recall him 3 months before they can and without any permission slip signed by the legislature?

Oh yeah, because we believe the people are the enemy and they must shut up.

So what if 20 people sign a recall petition, it doesn’t matter until they get 1M. Heck, try to get a petition with 500,000 signatures, it isn’t easy and just because someone threatens it, doesn’t mean it will happen.

And the idea if we had a “simple” recall process, we’d have all sorts of malfeasance sounds nice to the navel-gazing hate on the voters crowd, but over a century of history has shown it has never happened.

Comment by John Bambenek Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 5:25 pm
Thought there just was a recall effort called the election. Seems more people voted for him than the other candidates. Does that makes him the best option. Not necessarily, but he won with more votes from the people who bothered to vote. If a smaller group feels he is incompetent (or any other negative you care to choose) put the package together to make it happen. Probably a waste of time, but lately political discussions seemed to circle around a simple ‘throw em out’ or a rigid unchangeable philosophy. Complaining and yelling is much easier than actually having to do something.

Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 5:33 pm
Dupage Dan got it right. I do liken Blago and Quinn though because under both of them my family was threatened with economic torture. Only under Quinn was I laid off, while his hacks held two positions (one MC, one union). Quinn has no leadership skills, like Blago, and waffles like Blago. What most news stations and we are a laughing stock. There is still room to make cuts, but the elite will not allow those cuts. They raise our income tax but the politicos do this
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/bob-chapman-newsletter-jan-152011-slush-fund-of-top-politicians-found-at-vatican-bank-obama-clinton-roberts-legatus-split/ (sorry couldn’t link)

Comment by Ain't No Justice Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 5:41 pm
ANJ,

You’re kidding, right? Maybe my snark detector isn’t working properly, but that link is hilarious. Is that from the Onion?

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 6:44 pm
I agree that Quinn is not a crook, but I disagree that he is above recall. He has been Governor for two years now and has been by most accounts incompetent. While incompetence in itself is not an impeachable offense, it is reason to consider a possible recall given the state’s budgetary issues.

Had SLC not resigned as the Lt. Gov. nominee for the Democrats or had he not run as a third party candidate, I doubt that we would have Quinn as a Governor for four more years.

Supporters of the Governor need not worry though if the requirements for recall are actually as difficult to fulfill as many of the pundits say that they are.

Comment by Ryan from Carrollton Tuesday, Jan 25, 11 @ 7:33 pm