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* The setup…
After the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a handgun ban in Chicago last year, lawmakers in Springfield started off the year by pushing to give people the right to carry concealed firearms in public.
Similar legislation has been defeated in the past, but lawmakers have not given up. Some lawmakers in both chambers have introduced a slew of proposals to expand gun ownership rights.
House Bill 112, House Bill 148 and Senate Bill 82 are similar pieces of legislation, all of which would allow the county sheriff to issue permits to authorize the possession of concealed firearms. Applicants for the permit must be at least 21 and meet certain requirements, such as completing classes and training for live-firing exercises.
Co-sponsor of SB 82, state Sen. Kyle McCarter, R-Highland, said the majority of the people in his district support the right to carry firearms. He said the Supreme Court’s ruling made that clear.
* The Question: I know we’ve done this before, but attitudes may be changing, so let’s try it again: Do you support a right to carry a concealed gun?
Yesterday’s gun question fell flat. Maybe today’s will do better.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:30 am
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Yes,
Wish there was a way you can do a maturity test, but I don’t understand why we are one of the very few (if not only) without some sort of concealed carry. Are the people of this state that irresponsible as compared to folks in other places?
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:32 am
Yes. I belong to a gun club and have spent extensive time training. There should be no reason to limit my right to conceal carry.
Comment by wizard Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:37 am
No. Open carry is good enough. Business people have the right to refuse entry to those packing and concealed carry denies them that right by not allowing them to know if someone is, in fact, packing.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:39 am
48 states have concealed carry. 1 has open carry.
We’re the only one with no carry.
It is time public policy lose the irrebuttable presumption of guilt of the citizenry that’s used to justify some of these laws. Just because you can theoretically imagine some bad person doing something bad with their rights, it doesn’t justify cause to regulate (or ban) the rest of society.
Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:40 am
I definitely support it, but also support strict regulation for approval. Make me take classes, do a stringent background check and whatever else is necessary. In the end, if someone wants to commit a crime with a concealed weapon, they are going to do it, plain and simple. It’s us law abiding citizens that are hurt the most by this restriction.
Comment by Matt Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:42 am
This is one of the few issues that makes me glad I live in Illinois.
I do not support a right to carry a concealed gun and I hope the Illinois legislature can hold strong to its longheld opposition to that even after Daley is gone and no longer looming over this issue.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:44 am
No, but for a very different reason than gun control advocates have used.
The evidence is very murky whether concealed carry actually decreases crime, but it appears that crime does not go up because of concealed carry. So, it’s really hard to argue that concealed carry would lead to a worsening gun violence.
But there is a law enforcement angle to this. With concealed firearms being illegal in Illinois, police officers now have probable cause to deal with shady characters every time they spot one with a gun. If concealed carry became legal, it would not take long for criminal defense lawyers to start arguing that police lacked probable cause just because the suspect had a gun.
On a broader note, though, I don’t like concealed carry laws because they perpetuate a kind of swaggering, John Wayne mentality that encourages people to take justice into their own hands. That just leads to a vigilante society which, in the long term, leads to more crime not less.
Comment by the Other Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:44 am
Absolutely Not! No concealed carry. No open carry.
Comment by M Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:44 am
I’d be more comfortable with open carry. I’d like to know who’s carrying a gun when I’m out in public.
Also: just as you’re not allowed to carry a firearm into a courtroom, I would like to see it explicitly stated that you can’t carry weapons into schools, theaters, sports arenas, on public transporation and other public areas. And businesses should have the right to bar firearms on their premises.
If it’s good enough for judges, it’s good enough for everyone else, too.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:52 am
NO! We don’t need more people walking around with hidden loaded weapons. Hidden weapons don’t save lives.
Comment by Ahoy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:53 am
Another thing,
Go walk around Wal-Mart sometime and ask yourself, do I want these people walking around with loaded guns? If you answered yes, you might be a redneck.
Comment by Ahoy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:54 am
I support it, and will apply for it if it is passed, however that does not mean I HAVE to carry a gun with me at all times.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:57 am
Absolutely Not!
Comment by R Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:58 am
I’m fine with open carry, I don’t really understand why people feel the need to have concealed carry. I’m not necessarily opposed to it, but I do think the requirements to be licensed need to be more than having a pulse.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:59 am
Open carry. It is not a deterrent if hidden, it is fair to me that I know who carries and I can choose to avoid being around that person, and some people that are pro-concealed carry would probably not be seen carrying a weapon, so it may reduce the number of carried weapons.
Comment by Alexander cut the knot. Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:59 am
Yes.
“That just leads to a vigilante society which, in the long term, leads to more crime not less.”
Okay the Other Anonymous, you have 48 states worth of data at your disposal. Please provide the evidence that supports your claim.
Comment by grand old partisan Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:00 am
The real issue is what will public policy be toward gun shows tha sell magazines to mentally impaired folks that allow someone to shoot 30 bullets in a matter of seconds … when is public policy going to tighten up those laws?
Comment by NW Illinois Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:01 am
Illinois, Wisconsin, and District of Columbia are the only No-Issue jurisdictions for concealed carry. Is there something inherently dangerous about Illinoisans? Can we not be trusted with guns? Do I really want people riding the L with me having a gun underneath their coat?
I don’t know how to answer these questions but I do know that growing up in Chicago has certainly ingrained within me a certain avarice towards guns. However, I’m willing to give concealed carry a try. What’s the worst that could happen?
Comment by Wrigleytown Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:05 am
I’ll support concealed carry but only if these cowboys are required to wear spurs on their boots so we can hear them coming.
Any of you limited government types worried about county sheriffs doing background and mental health checks on you? How many more deputies will need to be hired to do that? Can sheriffs only grant permits for residents of their counties, or can we all get permits in the least restrictive county?
But sure, if you feel like you need to carry a gun on you to feel safe or whatever, fine. But please be careful because if you accidentally shoot me, I’ll take your house, your car and your dog.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:06 am
I support concealed carry
Comment by thechampaignlife Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:06 am
Yes. I support concealed carry, or open carry, or hide it in your glove box or lunch box carry.
Just don’t forget to protect the kids around you by storing it properly when you return home.
Concealed carry is working just fine in those states permitting it. I see no reason to believe it won’t work just fine here in Illinois.
An afterthought…I’ll never forget that rabbit that attacked and killed those knights in Monty Python’s movie. Had they been carrying a concealed gun, that wouldn’t have happened. You just can’t trust rabbits so best be prepared.
Comment by Justice Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:08 am
“On a broader note, though, I don’t like concealed carry laws because they perpetuate a kind of swaggering, John Wayne mentality that encourages people to take justice into their own hands. That just leads to a vigilante society which, in the long term, leads to more crime not less. ”
This is exactly why I do not travel outside Illinois and Wisconsin (only two non-conceal carry states left).
I’d love to take the family to Disneyworld, but the chance of getting caught up in a “wild west shootout” in a concealed carry state is just too risky. Ditto the Grand Canyon. I don’t want any family members being brought home in body bags.
It’s the Dells for us.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:08 am
I say yes, allow it under the conditions of training, etc. outlined.
That being said…
I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to claim that Illinois and until recently, Wisconsin are the “only” states that don’t allow concealed carry. Some states that have CCW on the books enforce it so strictly and issue permits so rarely that they might as well be in the same category as IL.
In general states take two approaches to CCW –”shall issue” policies meaning anyone who meets the legal qualifications MUST be granted a CCW permit; and “may issue” policies that leave it up to the discretion of a local authority to grant permits. I take it that the proposed IL law would be “may issue.”
The ease, or difficulty, of obtaining permits in “may issue” states varies widely. Just because a state has a CCW law on the books does NOT mean large numbers of average citizens actually are or will be carrying.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:09 am
I would support it only if people had to take a training class or at the very least we made sure that felons or mentally ill people don’t have the ability to conceal carry.
Comment by levois Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:10 am
No.
Veterans, remember the stupidest, most incompetent member of your basic training class? That dope passed an extensive and intensive government firearms training course. He passed it and he still endangered everyone on the live-fire range.
And at least in the Army you had the benefit of knowing when that witless menace was armed. You knew when his weapon was issued to him and you could keep him where you could see him.
I don’t want that clown — or the other clowns like him — carrying firearms around me or my family without my knowing it.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:10 am
I support concealed carry in counties with populations less than 100,000.
Comment by Obamarama Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:11 am
Absolutely Not! Pro forces claim it prevents crime–Arizona is the loosest and consider Tucson. How many more would have died in a shoot out, but no one fired except the shooter w/ mega-clips. The loose law only benefited the shooter making it easy to get a gun and big clip. Consider new poll 51% of likely Repub voters are “birthers”. Do you want those people armed?
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:13 am
Yes
I already carry….. In Indiana. I have a permit valid there. Concealed provides a tactical advantage.
Go to 48 other states and walk around a wal-mart. Someone may be carrying.
Comment by Champaign Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:13 am
I support right to carry. I think the obvious reason is simply the track record of History. 48 states cant be wrong. I would have no problem with Chicago opting out if they wanted too. I think Missouri has right to carry everywhere but St. Louis and Kansas City. Perhaps this map linked below will also help show that support for 2nd amendment rights is geographically supported in the majority of the state of Illinois.
http://www.pro2aresolution.com/id12.html
Comment by Living in Oklahoma Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:15 am
Personally I’d feel a lot safer if I could just carry a shotgun everywhere I go. I’m not that good with a handgun, but I can generally hit what I aim at with a shotgun.
If they pass it I will apply, but my guess is that I would almost never carry anywhere other than occasionally in my vehicle. I just don’t hang out in places where I feel that threatened.
Comment by Jaded Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:17 am
Here is the problem with concealed or open carry….if an officer rolls up on an armed robbery in progress and you have some self appointed goof that draws his handgun against the criminal conducting the robbery who is to say who the badguy is? Police need all the protection they can possibly have in order to do a difficult job in an unsafe world. The officer should not have to lose precious seconds to access who is the bad guy and who is the “law abiding” gun owner. As much as the detractors think this isnt always easy to tell
Comment by prairiestatedem Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:17 am
– Concealed provides a tactical advantage.–
For what?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:20 am
I am a downstater and I am totally against concealed or open carry although I’m part of a distinct minority down here.
Comment by Just Sayin' Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:21 am
Yes - CC
Comment by A Citizen Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:22 am
Yes. That comes after a decade of saying “no” to concealed carry. Individual state’s gun laws haven’t seemed to make a dent in mass shootings - does anyone here remember NIU - so I think its time for the non-criminals to have guns, too.
Comment by lincolnlover Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:24 am
No. For what purpose do people want to carry a gun? Protection against mugging when the attacker could get at your gun or worse, your child? The Wild West is long gone.
Comment by Bonsaso Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:26 am
Does anybody really think that the bad guys are going to not conceal carry just because it is illegal?
When thinking about conceal carry, I think about a Michigan Ave. jeweler (or those on Jeweler’s Row). With open carry, the owners could decide not to allow somebody in who has a weapon. But would that be effective? If somebody is going to a rob a store are they really not going to conceal carry just because it is illegal?
I still hold to the position that a great test for whether a person should have a weapon is if that person says they need one. Most people who claim to “need” them seem to have gone off the deep end.
But that doesn’t seem to be enough of a reason to bar them.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:28 am
It is still too soon for concealed carry in Illinois. We have enough trouble with inconsistent gun laws as is. There are too many fights between federal and state agencies over enforcement. Current laws and enforcement do not provide enough protection to keep guns out of the hands of violent individuals and the mentally unstable. Let’s get our house in order and build a foundation of solid, consistent laws before going headfirst into another murky debate.
Concealed carry is it’s own type of monster. A good concealed carry law is built upon good, consistent law. A move by Illinois to legalize concealed carry at this point in time is only going to serve as a temporary smoke-screen for our inadequate gun laws.
Comment by NIref Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:30 am
Yes for School Administration and Teachers. That way nuts will think twice before targeting our children.
Comment by Lady GaGa Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:35 am
Concealed carry seems to work everwhere else with minimal problems. Illinois wants to ignore statisical evidence that it does work.
Comment by Fed-Up Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:41 am
Yes! It’s time has come,48 other states can’t be wrong.
Comment by mokenavince Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:42 am
I’m wondering what advantage concealed carry has over open carry. Seems like for deterrence sake, open would be far better. Strap a gun on in open sight and walk around any neighborhood you like and I can just about guarantee none of the neighborhood criminals will bother you. The punks probably will just to mess with you since they know you can’t actually shoot them for any reason other than direct self-defense (IOW you can’t shoot folks just because you feel menaced).
It seems that concealed carry is more popular with the wants to carry a gun crowd because they are uncomfortable with everyone else knowing just how paranoid and/or messianic they are.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:42 am
To my liberal friends, why should “choice” be limited to abortion and civil unions? No one wants to force anyone to carry a firearm any more than you want to force anyone to abort or into a same-sex marriage.
Sen. Meeks wants choice when it comes to education; how about choice for concealed carry?
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:49 am
==I’m wondering what advantage concealed carry has over open carry==
Well, for ladies, open carry while in an evening gown is rather problematic. A gun in an evening bag not so much.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:55 am
In general, the people I know who are pro-conceal carry are the people I really, really wish didn’t own firearms. So no, not without some kind of maturity test.
Comment by Cheryl Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:55 am
I absolutely want to have the right to lawfully carry a concealed firearm. I abhor the tolerance of violent criminals and the lack of adequate police staffing. I hate to see our country have a third-world violent crime rate, and my relatives came to this country with no money, worked hard and obeyed the law, so I don’t subscribe to the poverty-violence excuse. I joined the ISRA when Chicago’s handgun ban was overturned. I hope it goes a step further.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:55 am
How insecure can a person be that they need to carry a gun to protect themselves? In the old west, guns were considered “Peacemakers.” Today, a better term would be “Adult Pacifiers” What chicken crap passes for macho.
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:56 am
reformer,
concealed carry gives all the choice to the one choosing to carry. Open carry gives the choice to everyone. It gives the person wanting to carry the right to do so and it gives the person running a place of business the right to allow in people carrying or not according to the business owner’s preference.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:57 am
I would support it in a second. Currently the only people in IL that conceal carry are the criminals. Why should they be the only ones?
And for those that fear ‘the wild west’ give me a break. That line MIGHT have worked before the 1st state went to CC. Now with 48 states that have some form of it…please give us a list of the ‘top 10 shootouts’ related to Conceal Carry.
They are just not happening. If you don’t want to carry a gun…don’t. But don’t interfere with my right to have a firearm.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:57 am
Responsa,
And the time needed to get at that gun in the bag to prevent a crime?
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:58 am
Of course allow concealed carry with reasonable background checks and required training. Concealed is much more effective in stopping crime than open carry: the bad guys have to guess who might have the means to defend themselves. Of course allow licensed guns in theaters. In fact, encourage vigilantism and summary executions against all talkers, texters, open mouth popcorn eaters, and cell phone surfers that ruin movies every day.
Comment by walter sobchak Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:01 pm
I support law-abiding citizens having the choice to carry firearms, concealed or open. I also support existing (not additional) registration, waiting period, and training requirements. That said, I will personally not choose to carry even if available.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:06 pm
Lighten up Cermak. You asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:07 pm
“To my liberal friends, why should “choice” be limited to abortion and civil unions?”
Reformer, I can’t speak for your liberal friends, but I suspect they might answer along the lines of “civil unions never killed anybody.” Just sayin.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:11 pm
Maybe, but only if there were extremely rigourous standards to qualify.
I’m more sympathetic to a woman who maybe works the night shift in a bad part of town wanting to carry. But I think some of the men are just on power trips and are trying to compensate for another deficiency but can’t afford a nice sports car. Seriously, how often does a normal guy really have to worry out on the street?
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:15 pm
An armed society is a polite society.
I like that thought and believe that Illinois would be a safer, better place with concealed and open carry options for law abiding citizens.
Comment by Joe Verdeal Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:16 pm
there were average citizens with guns at the site of the Giffords shooting in Tucson. the offender was taken down bodily. carry may not really help. the evidence on whether carry helps or hurt the crime rate is kind of all over the place so in that regard….meh.
the anti gun nuts talk about how horrible the atmosphere is in Texas with signs saying do not bring a gun in, etc. They are wrong too. it feels like Chicago, only a bit warmer and with no
ability to keep the roads from icing up.
I’d rather see the knife coming at me than from behind. Open carry or no carry.
Comment by amalia Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:19 pm
–In the old west, guns were considered “Peacemakers.” –
You actually couldn’t just walk around with guns in many towns in the Old West, depending on local ordinance.
That fact is a major plot point in some of your greatest Westerns, including “Unforgiven” and all your “Gunfight at the OK Corral” movies (the best being John Ford’s “My Darling Clementine,” followed by the uneven, but still very good, “Tombstone”).
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:20 pm
Concealed carry? Why? So gun deaths can proliferate? Folks can leave it in their pocket and have junior get ahold of it? I am proud that our State does not have concealed or open carry…
It’s like Lynyrd said, “Handguns were made for killin”…
Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:20 pm
Guys - I just got back from the killing fields of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and whoa boy, let me tell you those overly-macho cowboys there were so insecure, I am just happy to have made it back to my safe Chicago neighborhood in one piece.
It was just so confusing there in Fort Wayne, what with all the gun-fights breaking out all over the place, and then on top of that, Law Enforcement totally confused on who to stop in the gun-fights!
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:30 pm
Yes
Legal gun ownership requires registration, so we know who the gun owners are. Carry, whether concealed or not can have some reasonable training requirements. Furthermore I believe that the permit holders will value their certificates and will temper their behavior in a manner to assure their continued ability to carry.
Statistics ultimately tell the tale. Illinois is nowhere near the safest places to live in the US. There is no rational reason to believe that adding a carry law will drop the state in the safety rankings.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:43 pm
From my own experiance in Tx. I was there when the CC started. In less than 6 months Violent crime started to go down. In 2 years it dropped 14+% Even the chief of Police in Dallas was strongly against CC before two years after he was a strong suporter. With proper safe guards (Education, background checks etc) it is very efective at lowering crime. Why CC as opposed to OC is very simple. If the bad guy doesn’t know who has one they are more likly to not do it. Even those who chose not to carry are safer. Think about this. Women are often the target because they are percieved as an easier target. If they don’t know who the easy target is they will be more likely too go to something else.
Comment by belagarth Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:48 pm
The ole saying applies “If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.” Gangbangers don’t need permits do open fire and kill innocent people, do they?
What are the stats to back up increased crimes in states that ahve carry and conceal laws on the books? are firearms crimes lower, or higher than in Illinois? Lets look at the numebrs and make rational decisons with this, if its possible.
Comment by Pickles!! Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:49 pm
Yes, Not that I can see myself “packing”, but with gun safety training, stiff fines for not having the proper creditials and better background checks there is no reason why Illinoians should not be allowed to carry guns.
Comment by Jellybean Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:57 pm
Yes. I work in the South Loop, and I’m uneasy going home on late evenings. I’m ex-military, so I don’t get in a fluster over this issue. Let’s face reality:There seems to be fewer police officers everywhere, probably due to unsustainable benfits issues. Also, people are hurting financially, and it appears almost certain to get worse in coming years. Personal violence increase is inevitable. I’m 62, and I’m in no shape to play cowboy or run. Could i successfully use a concealed firearm if necessary? Who knows. But folks are less prone to get violent if they suspect their victim may have a firearm concealed under that coat.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:59 pm
Pickles -
Not possible.
And in the end, “rational” analysis is not our system, it’s not democracy, it’s not a republic. For better or worse, the issue, like most, will go the way of whichever side can inflame the most fear…
… I am reminded of the infamous WMD case made against Iraq before the UN by Bush II and his team. Same deal really on a larger scale. The reality of WMD (or lack thereof) was one thing, the FEAR of WMD was inflamed, and the rest is history.
Same deal here. You cant have a rational debate when “fear-mongering” is on the table. People are/were afraid of WMD. People were/are afraid of firearms.
The rational debate over those two issues (and any other that involves fear of personal security, really) is irrelevant and the academics can quote study-after-study this way or that way or the other, and it is, well, academic. My two cents.
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 12:59 pm
Yes for Concealed Carry!
We got a smoking ban because 11 or 12 other states had one.
At least 38 states have SHALL issue concealed carry and there isn’t the wild west, blood is not running in the streets. Illinois needs to join the vast majority of the country.
Comment by Kevin Highland Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:04 pm
I think that anyone who is passionate about the right to carry a concealed gun is probably a little off their rocker in the first instance.
Comment by the Answer Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:11 pm
Heck no. No way. For every responsible person that I would be fine with, there are 10 crazy people that I’m not. Too much time spent working in Florida to feel comfortable with this.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:12 pm
I have always had “mixed emotions” about this topic. My brother-in-law who lives in Kansas said that they found that a “well-regulated” concealed carry law has been very effective in lowering their crime rate. Concealed carry has also failed to cause rampant or increased shootings by Kansas people in the emotionally charged “heat of the moment” as many opponents of concealed carry had been warning would happen. My brother-in-law is a thoughtful and intelligent retired career military officer who is not some type of “gun-nut” or a “right-winger’s right-winger”. He is a quiet, mild kind of guy who always is open-minded about accepting new concepts or ideas. He said that Illinois would find out (like Kansas did) that concealed carry is not a bad thing if it is planned and well-regulated.
I also asked my northern Illinois county sheriff if he and the other Illinois county sheriffs are “for or against”concealed carry? He said that the Illinois county sheriffs association members are “for” concealed carry. They would want it to be well-thought out and regulated is all. For instance,a training course would be required to qualify for concealed carry. People with police records would be denied the concealed carry card. And, the other obvious rules & regulations that other states such as Kansas uses would be who Illinois models our concealed carry program after.
Comment by Renaldo Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:21 pm
==The answer==
Why do you have to denegrate those who don’t agree with you?
Comment by Fed-Up Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:22 pm
==48 states have concealed carry. 1 has open carry. We’re the only one with no carry.==
This is why Illinois has the highest crime rate in the nation, right?
/support concealed-carry anyhow.
Comment by JN Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:34 pm
Do people really believe that gun violence is going to decrease if we have concealed and carry? Is there long term data in each state that supports this theory?
To the argument that 48 states can’t be wrong, ever hear of the term group think? You should also be a little more informed if you’re a cap fax reader
and know that the NRA is legislative force that trumps the rational gun control groups.
Comment by Ahoy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:38 pm
–We got a smoking ban because 11 or 12 other states had one.–
I’m pretty sure we got a smoking ban because a half-century’s worth of research proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that second hand smoke caused cancer and because it was the right thing to do (this humble opinion coming from a smoker). The studies on concealed carry are not so convincing one way or another.
I don’t know where I stand on this issue, but think that Peter Snarker’s point on the fear-based argument is spot on. Violent crime is down nationwide and in Chicago. But if you poll citizens, time-and-time again they think crime is on the rise. That fear will be manipulated by both sides of the argument.
Comment by anonie Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:53 pm
Let’s see, none of the Chicago laws banning handguns did a thing to stop the criminal element from obtaining firearms. In fact, over 80% of crimes committed with guns in Chicago were committed by previously convicted felons who by law are not suppose to be able to get firearms. All it did was stop law abiding citizens from owning one.
Not sure if conceal and carry is the answer, but the answer is for sure not banning handguns from law abiding citizens.
Comment by Do ya feel lucky punk.... Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:54 pm
Yes, I support open carry or concealed carry.
The Second Amendment provides that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” This was a right specifically retained by the People under the Constitution, and, consequently, it is not the prerogative of government to narrow that right without a constitutional amendment.
If you oppose open or concealed carry, consider whether you would also support government limitations on the First Amendment. In my experience, many on the Left attribute different levels of importance to the First and Second Amendments. For example, some will defend the First Amendment right of Wikileaks to release sensitive information free from government prosecution while also arguing that law abiding citizens should not have a Second Amendment right to carry a weapon to defend themselves outside the home.
In reality, the rights of free speech and to bear arms were both specifically retained under the Constitution, and government has no greater authority to regulate one than the other. If we concede that government has the authority to regulate in areas where it plainly does not — even if as a matter of policy we agree with such regulation — we all end up less free.
If you want to restrict the right of law abiding citizens to bear arms, lobby for a constituional amendment.
Comment by Let Freedom Ring Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:57 pm
“If you oppose open or concealed carry, consider whether you would also support government limitations on the First Amendment.”
How about this: If you believe that the First Amendment is absolute, then you lack the knowledge and insight necessary to own a gun.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 1:59 pm
Jasper: OK, why should freedom of choice be limited to abortion?
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:01 pm
Is there long term data in each state that supports this theory? Why yes there is, Google is your friend.
From Florida that passed there CCW in April of 1999. From ‘99 to ‘09 as follows (per 100,000 inhabitants)
Violent Crime 854-612
Murder 5.7-5.5
Forcible Rape 46-29
Robery 211-166
Information from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm
And by the way, if the NRA has as much power as you think they do then why are we having this conversation anyway? Shouldn’t we have had ccw years ago? The NRA just scares Liberals because it’s comprised of 4+ million members that believe in the Constitution of this great country.
Comment by Eric Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:03 pm
Jasper: Your knee-jerk snark and hostility reveal more than the substance of your comment. The rights retained under the First Amendment are absolute, except to the extent the speech at issue infringes on the rights of others. In such cases, the balance of rights may be subject to legislation or adjudication.
Comment by Let Freedom Ring Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:06 pm
Reformer are you actually claiming that the only area of life where you have “freedom of choice” is abortion? Odd view. For instance, right now I am taking advantage of my freedom of choice to stop typing.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:06 pm
Let Freedom:
Are you claiming that guns don’t potentially infringe on the rights of others?
Seriously, LFR, if you don’t get it, you really should not be around sharp objects, much less guns.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:13 pm
Summing up everyone on this board, it basically comes down to:
(1) Are you more afraid of crime (Criminals bad, must be stopped!)?
OR
(2) Are you more afraid of guns (Guns bad, must be stopped!)?
You win the public’s hearts/minds on that one, you’ll get your pro or con legislation.
Stats are for fantasy baseball. Does anyone here believe we are operating in a system that is employing rational and cool logical analysis on, really, any issue?
I think both positions (1) and (2) can find rational support without stooping to name-calling, but, see immediately above re: rational debate. C’mon folks, that sort of reasoned analysis is for the junior class government in your local high school when determining what night to hold prom! Hahah.
Oh, and to answer Rich’s question - I support CC personally and also support severe penalties for violaters thereof.
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:23 pm
Louis Howe,
What is “macho” about having a concealed firearm on your person? Nobody knows it’s there thus there is no boasting to be had.
Ahoy,
I was at a wal mart two summers ago in MO with 12 other people and we were all carrying. Nobody was robbed or shot, can you imagine that?
Anyone here at capital fax that is opposed to conceal carry in IL I have a question for you. Have you ever been to another state besides IL?
Comment by Drylok Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:26 pm
After reading these comments for a couple hours and taking in the budget address the voices told me to get out my guns, clean them, and put them on. Now I weigh so much I can barely walk - but man, do I feel safer now. I love my guns, they are beautiful precision machining, works of art. On the few occasions I have felt the need to CC I have done so but never needed them. Gotta go now, voices want me to go to gun store.
Comment by A Citizen Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:37 pm
Corollary to my above post:
The statistical arguments:
(1) The stats say it may not make crime go down!
VS
(2) The stats say it may not make crime go up!
and then finally the personal attacks:
(1) You are an insecure red-neck who wants to kill people!
vs.
(2) You name-caller you! Debate the facts!
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:41 pm
“I was at a wal mart two summers ago in MO with 12 other people and we were all carrying. Nobody was robbed or shot, can you imagine that?”
Well I was at wal mart a few weeks ago with probably hundreds of people, none of whom were presumably packing, and no one was robbed or shot. In fact not once while checking out the racks of overly salty snacks did I say, “gee, I really wish I had a gun right now.”
I don’t get it. All the downstaters who care about this so much. It’s statistically nearly impossible that you’ll ever need to defend yourself on the street with a gun. Your home, maybe different story. But out on the street, much better chance you’ll be struck by lightning.
This is mostly just something gun enthusiasts want because they think it would be fun to do.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:44 pm
Just sayin @ 2:44
I agree! We need to immediately introduce legislation outlawing lighting rods because they are so unlikely to be needed!
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:49 pm
PS,
When a lightning rod panics at the sight of a dark sky and inadvertently sets three houses on fire, then we can address that issue.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 2:52 pm
I support legalizing the carrying of a weapon in this state. Concealed or open is the next question. Open carry seems to have some support amongst people here. I worry about open carry since it makes it easier to spot the carrier and, perhaps, target same for disarming. Also, bad guys know if anybody is carrying since it is obvious. With concealed carry, the bad guys in public don’t know who, if anybody, in public is carrying a weapon. That lack of knowledge is a deterrent.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:00 pm
Says Drylok…
“What is “macho” about having a concealed firearm on your person? Nobody knows it’s there thus there is no boasting to be had.”
I personally think it’s because in their pants they lack something else somebody can see, and they compensate for it by carrying a gun.
Comment by Louis Howe Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:07 pm
Yes. Mayor Daley will keep his taxpayer funded gun carrying security detail for the rest of his life. The only people in this State who are unprotected are the honest citizens.
Comment by wishbone Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:08 pm
Dear Howe
Please stop, my wifes 4th grade class is more mature than you’re acting.
Comment by Drylok Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:13 pm
Jasper -
So then naturally when you patronize a bank with an armed security guard you feel nervous that the guard may panic and shoot at suspicious people?
And around and around it goes. But I do understand your point, honestly, touche.
Oh! And thank you Mr. Louis Howe! Who woulda thunk it would have taken all the way to 3 PM today to hear the first accusation regarding genitalia size? Thank you for getting that cliche on the table!
Louis, curious, in your world does it that mean women on college campuses carrying mace or pepper spray are not well-endowed in the chest?
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:14 pm
Just say’n,
My point about the wal mart thing is that when you’re in the presense of law abiding citizens it poses no threat for them to carry firearms. They’re not the ones causing problem and they are the ones we are talking about licensing.
It’s just not a big deal plain and simple.
Comment by Drylok Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:15 pm
Yes. It’s just stupid that Illinois is the only State not to have it.
Comment by Palatine Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:20 pm
I support open and concealed carry.
Comment by waiting4spring Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:21 pm
“So then naturally when you patronize a bank with an armed security guard you feel nervous that the guard may panic and shoot at suspicious people?”
Not really, because I assume that the guard has some training and some experience unlike the person I more expect to see with a concealed weapon “Crazy Ed from Carroll County who thinks the guy who just walked by him on Michigan Ave. may have been eyeballin’ him, so best to just open fire now.”
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:23 pm
Jasper -
So then if the concealed carry legislation required (1) training and (2) experience akin to the level required for the guard at the bank, you would then be “OK” with concealed carry?
If yes, ok, I see your point, and our positions are actually in agreement, surprisingly enough.
If not, I dont understand your logic, frankly.
Just trying to draw you out on where your line is.
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:26 pm
Peter,
Go way up to the top of the top of this thread to see that I actually support CC. At the same time, most people who want to CC scare the heck out of me. Sounds like a contradiction, admittedly, but sometimes “it scares me” is not enough reason to make things illegal.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:30 pm
Japser - I totally agree. I dunno, for me it is like drugs and teen sex - it’s (in this case bad guys with guns regardless of what the law is) is gonna happen so let’s real and determine our response to that fact of life.
Ok - now that Jasper and I are in love and writing letters to the legislature on this issue, jointly, I am done here for the day.
Comment by Peter Snarker Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:33 pm
“Crazy Ed from Carroll County who thinks the guy who just walked by him on Michigan Ave. may have been eyeballin’ him, so best to just open fire now.”
Seriously Jasper? I guess that’s why when you go to states that allow law abiding citizens to carry you have to step over all the bodies lying in the streets. Grow up, think for yourself and for god’s sake open your eyes, the whole “It’ll be the wild west with blood running in the streets” thing doesn’t happen.
Comment by Eric Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:33 pm
–Anyone here at capital fax that is opposed to conceal carry in IL I have a question for you. Have you ever been to another state besides IL?-
Yes.
Thanks for playing, Carol Merrill has lovely parting gifts behind Door Number Three.
I’m not against someone having a gun in their home, I’m certainly not against hunting, I’m just not ready for everyone who feels like it packing in the public square.
Justice Scalia agrees with that. He’s certainly against guns in the courtroom, even by law-abiding citizens in civil cases.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:35 pm
If we are issuing FOID cards and allowing someone to purchase a gun, shouldn’t we be confident in their mental stability and judgement? It floors me that people are ok with gun ownership but not letting people carry their firearms. Why let them buy the gun in the first place if you don’t trust them to be responsible, cautious and level headed in carrying, transporting, storing and using their firearms?
The argument of enough guns on the street already is a crock. Criminals will carry a gun regardless of a concealed carry law. They disregard laws…that’s part of what makes them a criminal! What you would have is more law abiding citizens able to protect themselves should the need arise, instead we have criminals who know that they are dealing with unarmed citizens in most situations.
With the latest argument du jour regarding high capacity magazines… What is the difference between 1 30 round pistol magazine (as used in Arizona) versus 3 10 round magazines (which would remain legal after the proposed bans)? The answer is less than a second for someone proficient with firearms. Take a look at some youtube videos for reload drills. A professional shooter (Jerry Miculek) can fire a total of 12 rounds out of a 6 shot revolver (1 reload) and have all 12 rounds on target in less than 3 seconds. Granted your professional shooters are the exception. High capacity pistol magazines also have the secondary effect of reducing concealment. When you have a foot long magazine sticking out of the butt of the grip, it is hard to hide it in your waist band.
Banning the tools criminals use rather than going after the criminals themselves just does not make sense to me. In the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing was there a push to ban rentals of moving trucks? What about banning the sale of diesel fuel or fertilizer? These things combined caused a massive loss of life but banning them is ridiculous because they are very legal and logical. Firearms have caused losses of life, but have also prevented it. Firearms have perfectly valid and legal uses in hunting and recreational shooting, beyond the defense arguement.
I am fully in favor of concealed carry, in the shall issue flavor. I am also fully in favor of VERY stiff penalties for people who violate the laws and carry without a permit. Also I feel there should be very stiff penalties for parents who leave their guns in a place where children have access to them. This things give legal/responsible gun owners a bad reputation.
Comment by Notacop Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 3:43 pm
Can someone who is against CC in Illinois point to a place where I can read the news articles about all the random shootings that the kooky CC people are commiting in other states? Since Illinois and Wisconsin are the only states, there should be an abundance of true stories that describe the horror of some person, carrying a handgun legally, with a permit, going on a rampage or just pulling the gun out and terrorizing folk.
I keep an eye on national news, like many folks. I don’t recall such stories. It seems to me the anti-gun folk could provide us with some examples of the crime sprees that are occuring like some folk here worry about. Fears about the wierdos at Wal-Mart packing legal heat and going on shooting sprees just ain’t happening elsewhere. In states w/CC laws background checks, training and licensing are the order of the day. It ain’t the wild west out there, folks.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:01 pm
It’s a bad idea and would only increase weapon possession among those who shouldn’t be anywhere near firearms in the first place.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:02 pm
I support shall-issue concealed carry with a training requirement. I’m personally ambivalent about open carry.
And I’m appalled at some of the characterizations of gun owners and carry advocates being posted by certain of the earlier commenters. I hope they are proud that they’re so mature and superior.
Comment by Ken in Aurora Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:05 pm
- Eric -
You’re using one set of numbers from one state. That doesn’t really count for statistics. Also, what was Illinois’ gun violence down as well? Using one set of statistics that you found on google to support your argument is pretty short sighted and something i use to do in high school before I knew better.
The United States with 48 states that “can’t be wrong” have the highest gun crimes in the industrialized world. Interesting.
Comment by Ahoy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:10 pm
We were in Arizona last year and I was amazed at how many people openly carried guns. Of course that didn’t stop the Tucson shootings, nor did the Illinois law stop the guy at NIU from shooting students a few years back. Either way there are unstable people with access to guns.
Comment by Jellybean Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:14 pm
Wensicia,
48 other states allow for CC. If, in those other states, people who should not be carrying weapons are, indeed carrying them, we would expect to see an increase in problems. Problems lead to statistics. Please provide same. It will help the discussion.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:14 pm
YES!
I am an Illinois resident and (legally)conceal carry now as soon as I hit the Missouri border when traveling to the St. Louis area; and could legally carry if I were traveling to Indiana, Kentucky, etc.
Right now, any Illinois resident that can meet the requirements and successfully complete a one day CCW class given at select training facilities in Illinois, can get a Utah, Florida, or Pennsylvania CCW license that is honored in nearly 30 states (just like your driver’s license is honored in every state).
If I can legally carry in 30 states, why the heck can’t I carry in my own state?
It’s time for Illinois to quit living in a closet and allow its citizens their right to protect themselves.
Comment by Where's Mike? Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:16 pm
DD, as Secret has pointed out, the laws in the other states are quite different. Some are so restrictive that very few folks can actually get a CC permit.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 4:53 pm
“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!”
“Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six”
(’nuff said!)
Comment by Damfunny Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:05 pm
I suppport open carry and/or concealed carry. It is only the criminals that carry concealed weapons with no regard for the law. Overly estrictive gun laws only serve to put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:17 pm
Ahoy I realize that it is only one set of statistics I did that to simply show how easy it is for people to take a few seconds and do a little research. It just seems to me that everyone just jumps on the “OMG the sky is falling” bandwagon without useing, at least a small part, of their brain and making their own decisions.
Comment by Eric Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:24 pm
Yes definately on carrying either concealed or open, though I prefer concealed. I also believe that we should increase Posession of a Firearm by a Felon to a Class X Felony. Convicted felons now recieve as little as 2 years, which means they do 1, if that. That does nothing to deter a robber from carrying an illegal gun to commit more robberys, since it will be served concurrent to what time he will get anyway. Increase the penalty for a convicted felon in possesion of a firearm to a minimum of 10 years, and make them serve 85% of that. Mandatory to be served Consecutive to any other conviction and sentence he recieves. If you want to pass concealed carry and exclude Cook County form that, fine go ahead. I have to admit I did not read all of the prior posts, due to not alot of good arguements against concealed carry. Mainly just name calling of people who do prefer to protect themselves and their families, and the worn out arguements that compare law abiding citizens to criminals. We continue to protect criminals, and do not allow law abiding citizens to protect themselves.
So lets pass Concealed Carry, exempt Cook County, and tie to it a bill increasing the penalty on convicted felons who still carry a gun with no worrys. I do urge those opposed to letting law abiding citizens protect themselves to go and actually do some research, read a few issues of The American Rifleman. You dont even have to read the whole magazine, just the column on Armed American Citizens protecting themselves, its in there every month. Check out some of the people who are representatives of the ISRA, the NRA, and those who actually provide quality firearms training. Listen to what they have to tell you, read what they have written, and do so with an open mind. Then if you are still opposed, fine, but be opposed with all of the information and not just talking points and half-truths.
Comment by So IL M Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:31 pm
So IL M, I think excluding any political subdivision from concealed carry sia very, very bad idea.
Comment by Ken in Aurora Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:41 pm
Ken, I only think that it would make it easier to pass for the rest of us actually. The biggest hurdle to getting it through the House or Senate comes from Chicago. If they have the option of opting out we may get enough votes to pass. other than that I believe Chicagoans definately deserve and need the right to defend themselves just as the rest of us.
Comment by So IL M Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:46 pm
Ok one more thing, IL. Gun Owners Lobby Day is Thursday, March 10th!! Anyone in support of this issue should attend. ISRA.org for details.
Comment by So IL M Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:54 pm
Support both open & concealed carry. Should be a “must issue” if the appropriate training is met. I used to open carry a pistol on wooded farmland on a regular basis as protection from dog packs and coyotes; never had to shot (or even draw) but considered it a couple of times when a pack followed me. After watching a recent show about coyotes attacking humans, glad I never encountered that particular pack …
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 5:59 pm
Yes, I support concealed carry. Why does everyone think so poorly of people in Illinois? Obviously people don’t feel they are responsible enough to act like the rest of the nation who show concealed carry doesn’t cause wild west shoot outs.
Comment by Wanting to protect myself Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:09 pm
I strongly support a license to carry in Illinois. I’ve been to many states where their citizens are allowed to carry and I know many people who can carry in those other states. They are good, responsible people - more responsible than the general public. Indiana has had concealed carry for years and I don’t notice big problems over there. Although I too have a bit of concern about that mentally ill person, I truly believe that the current restrictions only hurt the law abiding individuals. It doesn’t really stop the criminals. I have read many books regarding the subject and I’ve done a bunch of research on it. There is a reason the state Sheriff’s Association supports concealed carry and why many, if not most, individual officers do. They realize that they normally can not be there to prevent the crime. It is up to the individuals and society to protect theirselves and each other. The best way to do that is to ensure they have access to means of doing so. Allowing people to carry is good public policy. Finally, there is also that constitutional right thing. The opponents do so on the basis of emotion not logic.
Comment by Logic not emotion Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:09 pm
With the Chicago block of legislators we will never get Concealed Carry. It will only come through an order/opinion/directive from the U.S.Supreme Court.
Comment by A Citizen Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:15 pm
Yes, people have the right to their lives, thus the right to defend their lives, thus the right to acquire, train with and use weapons for that purpose. I support both concealed and open carry.
Just a quick note for those saying that open carry should be enough, in two parts:
1. Most of you probably know this, but it’s not really an either-or proposition, because open carry is just as illegal as concealed carry in Illinois.
2. Open carry tends to create concealed carry in the political atmosphere of the last couple of decades. Missouri and, to a much greater extent, Ohio are examples of states that passed concealed carry ordinances partly because gun owners began exercising their legal right to carry openly and people reacted by trying to create incentives and opportunities to hide the guns from view in order not to frighten or disturb people who are frightened at the sight of a firearm.
Comment by Don Gwinn Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:22 pm
Yes, I support concealed carry. I look at it this way … similar legislation has been passed in the vast majority of states, beginning nearly 25 years ago. Illinois is way behind on this issue.
Also, I don’t look at it as the state legislature “giving” people the right to bear arms. The right exists and always has … this is more a matter of repealing prohibitions on exercising the right.
Many of the debates these days in the couple remaining states (IL and WI) border on senseless. All one has to do is look to the collective experiences of the 48 states with provisions for concealed carry. People are generally responsible and trustworthy … and irresponsible people will be irresponsible despite the law.
Comment by Carl from Chicago Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:46 pm
What are the public benefits or issues of concealed over open carry?
Also, over the years, I’ve been in many places in Illinois where folks were carrying firearms openly, including handguns. What’s new that’s being asked for here?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:48 pm
It’s our RIGHT given to us by our forefathers in the Constitution, not a priveledge! Illinois needs to take a long hard look at how they’re trampling on the rights of the citizens. 48-49 other states can’t be wrong now can they. I SUPPORT CONCEALED CARRY, so I can be more effective at protecting myself and my family members from danger in the event of an attack, robbery, mugging, etc.. If the criminals can carry concealed (which they are doing as we speak) then I should be able to do the same LEGALLY.
Comment by GB Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:53 pm
YES!
Illinois is the only state with neither open nor concealed carry. There are 3 or 4 may issue states where getting a permit is almost impossible for the average guy unless politically connected. I just don’t understand how anyone can be against allowing the right to carry open and/or concealed considering it is a fundamental right (SCOTUS). Those opposing carry might just as well re-institute the poll tax or black codes. If the right to protect your life has no meaning then all other rights are worthless.
Comment by Lockman Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 6:58 pm
–With the Chicago block of legislators we will never get Concealed Carry–
No snark, that interests me, and I wonder why that is.
I myself don’t know. But I know plenty of otherwise law abiding folks in Chicago who have own a handgun.
In fact, among men of a certain older age, I’d say the percentage of law-abiding Chicagoans who own a handgun is quite high.
Put it this way: just about everyone, of all ethnicities and in every neighborhood has one in the house.
What’s the reason and point of the disconnect with the elected officials?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:02 pm
I support concealed or open carry. Illinois needs to be a SHALL ISSUE state once appropriate safety training has been performed. The FOID system could be converted into a carry license with minor changes.
Comment by Fred B Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:02 pm
Wordslinger said: “Also, over the years, I’ve been in many places in Illinois where folks were carrying firearms openly, including handguns. What’s new that’s being asked for here?”
There are some exceptions for open carry in rural areas. But possession of firearms on any public lands without the permission of the chief security officer for that jurisdiction is a criminal trespass. Step onto the wrong property and all of the sudden you commit an aggravated UUW, so long gun rights! This would include State parks, county forest preserves, public nature areas, rest stop restroom etc., etc.
Comment by Lockman Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:05 pm
After reading this discussion all day, I need to amend my prior answer. In addition to the stated Crazy Ed from Carroll County who is going to shoot somebody who he thinks looked at him funny, the following should also be denied CC:
1. Anybody who thinks the constitutional issues are straight forward (those people are just not bright enough); and
2. Anybody who responded to this thread in all caps. If you can’t settle down enough to post a calm response, you sure should not be carrying a concealed weapon.
One serious note: It also might be reasonable to limit it to the city/county of issue. If you want a gun, keep it around your home town. If you think you need a gun to come into my town, I really don’t want you in my town. That seems like a resonable compromise.
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:12 pm
It’s easy. “Shall not be infringed”. I legally transport a weapon on a daily basis in IL. When I leave this state, other than to WI, I stop after crossing the state line, and begin to exercise my right, as endowed by our creator, and guaranteed by the Constitution (and helped by a PA RTC permit).
Comment by lordjoker1977 Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:14 pm
Joker, what does the First Amendment say? How has the First Amendment been interpreted?
Comment by Jasper Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:28 pm
Rich, I think this thread worked better.
1) I’m a Republican gun owner, hunter, 2d amendment strict constructionist.
2) If I had my way, every handgun in the U.S. would be destroyed.
To answer the question, no.
Comment by Park Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:35 pm
I am an avid shooter and collector and have dozens of firearms and a lot of experience conducting shooting competitions. However, I think “concealed carry” is idiotic and I do not support it. The last thing I want to see is some terrified fool pulling his piece and start blazing away.
Comment by Skirmisher Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:54 pm
YES I am for CCW in Illinois. I work late and have a long walk to my car in a high crime neighborhood. I really would like to be able to carry in my purse for the protection. I am only 5′01″ and 125lbs and there is nothing I would be able to do if God forbid..
Comment by lady4carry Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:55 pm
–This right is guaranteed by the Constitution but denied to me and my fellow citizens by the politicians elected in Cook County and the City of Chicago.–
There’s a great big conspiracy directed just at you to deny your Constitutional rights? Aren’t you a special kind of victim.
As someone with Top Secret clearance, someone should have filled you in how the super-secret concept of federalism works. With the laws and judicial review and such. Top secret.
The process doesn’t work quite like microwave popcorn, but it gets there soon enough. I’ll bet you’re packing anyway, so what’s the beef?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 7:59 pm
So let me get this straight.. I can have a M-16 tossed in my face and sent off to a foriegn land from the state of Illinois to fight and defend the very freedoms of the Constitution… but upon return I cant protect my family and little ones from the terrorist (criminals) in the streets? But.. the law making liberals that have never served can carry and protect their family?
Doesnt seem fair!
GIVE ME MY RIGHTS AND MY FREEDOMS BACK!
Comment by Veteran Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:04 pm
So let me get this straight.. I can have a M-16 tossed in my face and sent off to a foriegn land from the state of Illinois to fight and defend the very freedoms of the Constitution… but upon return I cant protect my family and little ones from the terrorist (criminals) in the streets? But.. the law making liberals that have never served can carry and protect their family?
Doesnt seem fair!
GIVE ME MY RIGHTS AND MY FREEDOMS BACK!
Comment by Veteran Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:04 pm
Bud, you’re all over the place, but I guarantee I respect everyone’s military service, to the hilt. You can peddle that slur somewhere else.
To suggest otherwise is a cheap strawman; the reason behind your argument can stand or fall on its own without trotting out your uniform.
I have enough respect for the Constitution and the federal process that if your rights are being violated, you’ll get relief in due time. It’s not like gun owners have been barred from Congress, courts, or the political process, that I’ve noticed.
I’m not even against gun ownership. But the fact that things haven’t played out exactly as you want them, immediately, is not a real beef.
Secondly, what is the point of the “counties” argument in Illinois elections, anyway? It’s beyond stupid. One person, one vote, right?
Or are you against that Constitutional right?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:28 pm
Skirmisher said: “I am an avid shooter and collector and have dozens of firearms and a lot of experience conducting shooting competitions. However, I think “concealed carry” is idiotic and I do not support it. The last thing I want to see is some terrified fool pulling his piece and start blazing away.”
Classic case of projection presented there. How come everyone else is incompetent? Over 40 states are open carry and/or concealed, the blood in the streets scenario caused by RTC is proven false by example.
Comment by Lockman Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:28 pm
Yes, I support it! Time to move into reality and out of fantasy land. Criminals already do it, and they know no one else does. That is a problem.
Comment by Paul S. Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:54 pm
I’d love to see the I.P. address history for this thread. ICHV and their sister organizations must be working overtime tonight on Capfax.
Comment by Champaign Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 8:57 pm
Yes
Comment by springfieldwatcher Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 9:04 pm
Wordslinger, all rhetoric aside, there are only three places where a private citizen in Illinois can legally carry or transport a loaded firearm to which he has “ready access,” whether it’s transported openly or “concealed”:
1. Private property (privately-owned dwellings, land, or places of business) with the permission of the owner, or
2. Officially recognized firing ranges, with a couple of minor caveats, or
3. Hunting with permission during season with a license, etc.
If you saw private citizens openly carrying firearms in public, on public streets or the like, then they were committing felonies. There are a couple of very narrow exceptions for things like VFW contingents in parades, but that’s the bottom line.
Concealed carry is illegal in Ilinois. Open carry is illegal in Illinois.
Comment by Don Gwinn Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 9:09 pm
Pro-Choice, its my constitutional right.
I support both open/concealed and agree concealed would keep the bad guys at bay and guessing.
I agree how is it fair that the law allows certain law makers ie..mayors/trustees/alderman ect… to get a CCW permit but every other law abiding tax payer cant?
The time is now for Illinois to follow the lead of the rest of the USA. Shouldve happened along time ago.
Comment by 2A Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 9:26 pm
Pro-Choice, its my constitutional right.
I support both open/concealed and agree concealed would keep the bad guys at bay and guessing.
I agree how is it fair that the law allows certain law makers ie..mayors/trustees/alderman ect… to get a CCW permit but every other law abiding tax payer cant?
The time is now for Illinois to follow the lead of the rest of the USA. Shouldve happened along time ago.
Comment by 2A Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 9:26 pm
Seems to me that people see the world through their own prism. Personally, I believe that the overwhelming majority of IL residents are good, lawful, and capable of responsible carry.
I support both concealed and open carry because I believe that the law abiding citizens of IL have a right to arm themselves, with a gun, for personal defense, if they so choose to.
There are some here, on this blog, who oppose this right, and clearly show their disposition towards others. Its unfortunate that these people think so lowly of their fellow citizens, but I’m glad that the US Supreme Court did not share this condescending view of “lowly, common, walmart, people” when it ruled McDonald V Chicago.
Comment by ILCitizen Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 9:35 pm
Fed Up: I was just kidding. I think that every person who is angry, “tea’d” off, and fed up should be permitted to carry a concealed gun.
Comment by the Answer Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:10 pm
Yes - absolutely it is time for law abiding citizens of IL to be allowed to carry concealed firearms for personal protection.
Comment by TomKoz Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 10:33 pm
Yes, I support the right of responsible IL residents to carry concealed firearms.
For those who are afraid of the possibility, all you have to do is visit Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan or Kentucky. There isn’t any blood in the streets, no shoot outs in traffic jams, etc. perpetuated by those that legally carry.
Why should City Aldermen in Chicago be allowed to carry concealed weapons while the rest of us cannot? Are we “less equal”?
Comment by milkforme Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:04 pm
here’s one thing that makes me want to revisit my wish for open carry…..why is the NRA so afraid of a nominee for ATF? stalling, opposing? stop it, NRA.
Comment by amalia Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:04 pm
Yes. I support the right to carry. Would I? We’ll have to wait and see…
Comment by soundguy Wednesday, Feb 16, 11 @ 11:48 pm
There have been no rivers of blood in the 49 other States that haven’t been brainwashed by the likes of Mayor Daley and the Brady Bunch.
If you ever traveled outside of Illinois, you most likely were standing next to a bunch of people with guns on their persons. Why didn’t you know this? That’s what the “concealed” part means in concealed carry.
Illinois has the strictest gun laws in the country by being the only State without any provision to carry, yet it is not the safest place to live. You have a better chance of being shot in Illinois with it’s no carry law, than in some States that allow carry. Source: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
This proves that Illinois’ ridiculous gun laws have no effect on gun crime, except to keep a fresh supply of victims for the criminals. It’s time for concealed carry in Illinois, the citizens deserve their right to defend themselves against assault, robbery, rape, and murder in Illinois.
Comment by Chief Wiggums Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 12:04 am
I would feel totally at ease knowing there is a person who has passed a background check and trained to use a gun responsibly in the same place such as a store or a bank, then to be in a room of hoplophobes when some person without any kind of a background screening decides that this is the day he’s going to make things very unpleasant for everyone else.
Comment by Don't want to be a victim Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 12:15 am
Yes. Absolutely yes.
Law-abiding citizens can carry firearms in 49 other states - EVERY other state except IL.
Is my life somehow less valuable here? Isn’t it interesting that IL Mayors and Chicago alderman are allowed to carry firearms, but us mere peasants aren’t? This is hypocrisy at its finest.
Anyone against law-abiding citizens carrying firearms has an irrational fear. Live in a non-rich neighborhood of Chicago for a few years - you’ll quickly learn that the criminals and gang bangers are ALREADY carrying firearms. Your irrational denial of fundamental rights is only affecting the law-abiding citizen. You’re not keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people.
Comment by mark Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 8:16 am
Those of you saying when presented with an assailant, you should just roll over and bow to their demands because it’s more dangerous to try to protect yourself…. You’re living a dream world.
EVERY… SINGLE…. PERSON who’s been the victim of a violent or sexual crime wishes they had a gun or other means of protection.
It’s easy to play armchair victim and surmise that you’re somehow morally superior for not resorting to violence, but when your life, or your childrens’ lives are at stake, you better believe your basic instincts will kick in and do whatever you need to do to survive.
A firearm levels the playing the odds in your favor. When a group of bangers starts closing in on you intent on raping you or giving you a beatdown for being the wrong color in “their” neighborhood, you won’t feel so morally superior for being unarmed.
Your life is worth protecting. I strongly recommend you read A Nation of Cowards by Jeffrey Snyder.
Comment by mark Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 8:24 am
Absolutely support it.
It’s worked well to provide people in the rest of the nation the choice of carrying the means to meaningfully defend themselves for many years.
Those opposed to it usually cite fears and hyperbole but the fact of the matter, those fears never materialize.
How many more poor black folks have to die before we get right-to-carry?
How many more women have to be raped before we get right-to-carry?
Comment by Templar Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 9:19 am
Wow, I see a lot of ad hominem attacks here by opponents of Right to Carry. I’ve was taught to recognize that as the last resort of those unable to provide a legitimate response.
To address a few of the more adult commenters:
1. Concealed is preferrable to Open from a tactical viewpoint. Statistics from other states informs us that at most 5% of the populace will choose to carry. If carry provides a deterrent, it stands to reason that keeping the offenders guessing is preferrable. Also, take for example the guy who went into that MO courthouse. He targeted cops first because he knew they had the means to stop him. Open carriers would have also drawn his fire.
2. As for ladies with guns in their handbags, take for example the Lane Bryant massacre. One of those 5 ladies was able to retrieve her cell phone from her bag, little good it did them. It could have been a much better outcome had she had a gun in her bag instead.
3. For me, crime rates are not the issue. The issue is whether one is better off or not if/when they find themselves facing a violent criminal. According to FBI statistics, you are. According to examples from other states, you are. Crime rates are affected by much larger forces than carry laws. If you examine the crime rates across the country though, despite them pretty much all falling in recent years, you’ll find they fall less in ‘gun free’ zones like DC and Chicago.
Comment by Federal Farmer Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 9:33 am
Yes, I support it and would love to see it approved. Any law only works for law abiding citizens. The criminal element already conceal carry.
Comment by Dr Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 9:40 am
–Those opposed to it usually cite fears and hyperbole but the fact of the matter, those fears never materialize.
How many more poor black folks have to die before we get right-to-carry?
How many more women have to be raped before we get right-to-carry?–
So “poor black folks” no longer die, and women are no longer raped, in states with c and c?
Talk about using fear and hyperbole.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 10:11 am
@ wordslinger - Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 10:11 am:
No worse than the over-the-top “Wild West” or “rivers of blood” comments above.
Comment by Ken in Aurora Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 10:57 am
@ wordslinger
> So “poor black folks” no longer die, and women are no longer raped, in states with c and c?
Of course bad things still happen to good people. Especially since, as stated, only about 5% of people arm themselves.
However, the individual who arms herself has a fighting chance. That individual may live to see another day, and may walk away without her body being violated.
This is not about a solution to a societal problem.
This is about the individual freedoms and rights of law-abiding citizens to CHOOSE to protect their lives, their families, and their loved ones.
Comment by ProtectIllinois.org Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 11:19 am
I live in inner-city Chicago and hold a concealed carry permit valid in over 30 States, shamefully not of course my own home nanny-State which would deem me a criminal this side of Indianapolis Blvd. Constitutional RIGHTS are just that, rights. That they can be denied to any group of law-abiding citizns is itself a criminal act. The decades long histories from all the rest of FREE America that have a form of concealed carry, to include Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan and soon Wisconsin refutes any of the scare-mongering ‘Wild West, rivers of blood’ nonsense spewed by the ill-informed. I FULLY support keeping guns away from sociopath criminals, but that goal is NEVER achieved by denying the RIGHTS of the law abiding citizen.
Comment by ChicagoRandy Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 11:24 am
Federal Farmer:
Thank you for your clear and concise points.
Wordslinger: I’d be interested in your remarks towards Federal Farmer’s.
Convince IL on why this is such a bad idea. You have lots of history to reference with IL being one of the last states. Surely you can find something that holds water. Something beyond hypothetical… What are the facts support your view?
Comment by ILCitizen Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 11:33 am
I support the right to carry a firearm. A peaceful individual should have the right to choose to carry concealed or openly. I encourage peacefully citizens to get the proper license and to carry in Iowa, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, and other states that don’t prohibit lawful carry. One of these days, Illinois may recognize the unitary right to keep and bear arms.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Feb 17, 11 @ 11:38 am