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* The setup…
Currently, universities set their own tuition rates and fees. However, Senate Republicans suggested as part of their recently unveiled budget plan that lawmakers should have some say in how the universities spend the money they collect from students. Sen. Matt Murphy, a Palatine Republican, said legislators should consider capping how much tuition revenue public universities can spend each year. […]
Tom Hardy, spokesman for the University of Illinois, said if the Republican plan were approved, some academic programs might have to be cut completely. “We’re going to lose ground,” Hardy said. University employees have not had a general salary increase since 2008, according to Hardy. […]
Murphy said, however, that under the Republican plan, tuition dollars would not be lumped into the general revenue fund and could not be diverted to other state costs. Instead, lawmakers would only have the power to limit how much tuition revenue universities could spend.
* The Question: Should the General Assembly have control over how much tuition money that universities can spend? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 5:05 am
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No - The GA is the main reason that the U of I has had to raise tuition. They’ve been decreasing the amount of state funding for higher education for years, and now they want to tell the university what to do with the tuition dollars? Please. The U of I at Urbana-Champaign is the state’s flagship and one of the top 5 engineering schools in the country. They know how to run a University, unlike Matt Murphy and his buds in the legislature who are, as usual being pennywise and pound foolish. Only the top students even get into the U of I, and they are sought-after by businesses, not only in Illinois, but nationwide. Don’t fix what ain’t broken. Instead, invest more towards the education of the state’s top students. It’ll pay many dividends in both the short and long term.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 6:23 am
Another example of Big Government conservatism.
Comment by someonehastosayit Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 6:34 am
Yes, Public Universities are the most unaccountable entity in government. There is no reasonable excuse for college tuition rising at 2 to 3 times the rate of inflation, rates even higher than health costs. These bureaucrats have an inflated opinion of themselves and their self-worth. Look at former Gov. Jim Edgar, collecting a $153,000 state pension and another $180,000 from the University of Illinois.
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 6:49 am
Two things.
First, is Murphy going to grow a beard to try to perfect is Steve Rauschenberger impersonation? They have a lot in common, Rauschy couldn’t win statewide either.
Second, Yes, the lack of state support for higher ed is a legitimate policy issue as is university spending (are GE classes really needed in 2011?).
But the recent focus on tuition increases ignores one key factor: the state passed a law guaranteeing freshmen pay the same tuition for four years. It was done because annual increases made it impossible for families to budget. So now universities have to pack four years of increases into each new freshman class.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 6:59 am
Tuition rising at 2-3 times the rate of inflation? Where do you get that figure Lou? Tuition is fixed for four years at U of I. Those figures that you have apparently taken very little time to examine, represent an approximate 2.7 percent annual increase year over year.
As for your absurd unaccountable allegation, the University, unlike other government entities, is in competition with other state and private universities around the country for the best students and professors, and there doing a great job at besting that competition in many areas.
As for Gov. Edgar collecting a state pension and teaching at the U of I, so what? He earned that pension through his work in state government, and now he’s earning his salary as a top professor of political science.
What I don’t get is the un-American attitude that a person can’t somehow work anywhere they’d like. He finished his government jobs and is collecting his accrued benefits. He has been hired because of his vast experience in the political arena, and he is now transferring that knowledge to his students, and getting paid for it. If he were working at a private institution, would you be alright with that? Or is it just a subset of employment opportunities that you’d like to exclude him from competing for. Isn’t that a clear restraint of free trade issue?
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:05 am
@Michele - “are GE classes really needed in 2011?” There not needed if you don’t think that whatever job you end up getting won’t require writing, and other communication skills. And it seems to me that we might want to teach our future business leaders a little bit more about history. I’d suggest a course or two on the Robber Barons of the early 20th century, for example.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:12 am
Opps…meant they’re…Gotta take another class in writing, I guess.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:13 am
If the state ever gets back to a balanced budget, fully funded pension plans and some accountability itself…then perhaps it will be time to have this discussio.
Comment by Greenbriar Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:39 am
No
lets be transparent here, the State has a number of special funds that are not placed in GRF. However when the State needed money it swept money out of those special dedicated funds. This pot of money would be to much for politcians. They would cut costs regardless of the impact to the university, build up the money pot then sweep it.
Besdies the politcians cant get the budget for the State right, lets not wreck our universities too.
Comment by Ghost Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:45 am
==a top professor of political science.==
Oh really? Where’s his Phd from? Where are his scholarly works?
The U of I is a sinkhole that gobbles up most of the dwindling higher ed dollars while other institutions, that do a much better job of educating undergraduates starve. The U of I sits on a billion dollar endowment, has most of its undergraduates taught by part-timers and grad assistants, and pays it administrators and athletic coaches bloated half million dollar salaries. If you think Edgar’s pension is bloated check out Ikenberry’s or Lou Henson’s.
By the way, how many students does Edgar actually teach per semester?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:49 am
No, but I do think the GA can control how much it spends, if it cares to.
I really don’t see any need or benefit for the GA to start micromanaging university budgets. It has enough on its own plate.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:50 am
No. Tuitiion is increasing because the state is not paying its bills, not because this money is misused in some vague way. As for “self worth”, the last time I checked university jobs were open for all to apply. If you want one, go apply for one.
Comment by Way Way Down Here Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:56 am
Yeah, sure. Just what we need. Lawmakers trying to manage a budget for higher education. Good grief, they can’t even manage their own budget.
But then again, this could be a cash cow for campaigns and fund sweeps.
What happened to focusing on the State budget deficit? Seems to me that is what these folks should be doing rather than trying to create distractions. But then again, if you don’t have a clue…..
Comment by Justice Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:59 am
Yes the universities are horribly inefficient and unaccountable. No it’s obvious that getting the GA involved is the one way to make it worse. And as far as GE classes, college freshmen on average have never been less prepared for college than they are today. Why that is is a different thread.
Comment by Excessively Rabid Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:12 am
Public Servant, keep in mind someone’s earning a pension while teaching “GE-E 101: Walking and Jogging” at our public universities.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:16 am
Absolutely Not.
Because it runs counter to the purpose of an academic institution. Mr. Murphy who seems desperate for press and to position himself for higher office, has no credentials to determine the validity of academic programs. A geology department with only a few students might not be politically popular, but having that area is part of why we have universities.
Comment by shore Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:24 am
Why shore!
How very liberal of you!
Comment by Bill Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:27 am
Justice,
The idea is one part of a whole plan to manage the state budget. Stay focused. Get a clue.
Comment by Old Milwaukee Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:29 am
FYI To PublicServant…See the following…CPI up 2.5 since 1978…Medical up 6 times…College costs up 10 fold.
I served on a regional college trustee board and can attest to the “Tuition Freeze” as a scam. College bureaucrats have little sympathy for parents or taxpayers and misrepresent allied fees and room and board charges.
“The inflation rates of general costs of living (for urban consumers; the CPI-U), medical costs (medical costs component of the consumer price index (CPI)), and college and tuition and fees for private four-year colleges (from College Board data) from 1978 to 2008. All rates are computed relative to 1978. [13]
Cost of living increased roughly 2.5-fold during this time; medical costs inflated roughly 6-fold; but college tuition and fees inflation approached 10-fold. Another way to say this is that whereas medical costs inflated at twice the rate of cost-of-living, college tuition and fees inflated at four times the rate of cost-of-living inflation. Thus, even after controlling for the effects of general inflation, 2008 college tuition and fees posed three times the burden as in 1978.
According to “College Board”, the average tuition price for a 4-year public college in 2008-2009 is now $6,585 compared to 2004 where the price was slightly above $5,000. The average price of in-state tuition vs out-of-state tuition for 2008-2009 was $6,585 for a in-state 4-year college to $17,452 for out-of-state 4 year college (collegeboard.com).
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:31 am
No. Apparently Murphy thinks the GA has been doing a pretty good job of budgeting for themselves?
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:33 am
Old Mil,
It all depends on whose ox is getting gored. Even staunch conservatives who love to run around yelling “cut everything, cut everythibg” immediately change their tune when the cuts would extend to their own personal priorities.
If you read the comments above it is pretty to pick out alumni and employees of U of I.
Comment by Bill Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:35 am
“The U of I is a sinkhole that gobbles up most of the dwindling higher ed dollars while other institutions, that do a much better job of educating undergraduates starve.”
What a stupid statement. UIUC has a 93% freshmen retention rate and an 84% graduation rate and …only about 20 percentage points higher than the next highest Illinois public university. Oh and then there is NEIU & CSU that have about a 20% grad rate.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:36 am
===Yes the universities are horribly inefficient and unaccountable. ===
Mr. Rabid: Care to back this up? C’mon, if it is so horrible, you shouldn’t have any trouble coming up with ten points to prove what you say.
Comment by Deep South Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:38 am
Bill,
The professors are active this morning.
Comment by Old Milwaukee Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:39 am
You mean the UIUC that gave Michael Jordan’s son an academic scholarship. Hey, the kid was smart and earned it. But really, if MJ’s kid needs help paying for college there is no hope for the real world. Most of us can’t go shoot a Hane’s commercial to cover tuition.
Comment by piling on Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:40 am
No. God help us if that idea ever got traction. Our universities are in bad enough shape thanks to those clowns. Imagine what would happen if they got their paws back on the universities’ budgets.
Comment by Ray del Camino Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:41 am
“And as far as GE classes, college freshmen on average have never been less prepared for college than they are today.”
Rubbish - Here’s what has changed - In 1980, 40% of High School grads enrolled in college. In 2008, that number had increased to 68.6%. College is a BIG business and is goofing up our k-12 system in an effort to get everyone to “go to college”. This in spite of the fact our nations employers tell the Bureau of Labor 22% of our workforce going forward needs a bachelors and an additional 5% requires an associates. And we wonder why the colleges complain about having to remediate students?!? College is BIG, BIG, business.
Comment by Just the Facts Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:51 am
the GA should have no further involvement in influencing tuition rates than they already do. they have exacerbated the situation that requires higher tuition as it is–$500 mil in arrears in state pmts, four year tuition guarantee, reduced funding.
Comment by Langhorne Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:56 am
Old Milwaukee….Sorry for that…Thanks for indicating you have a clue. Let me restate my position for your benefit:
Yeah, sure. Just what we need. Lawmakers trying to manage a budget for higher education. Good grief, they can’t even manage their own budget.
But then again, this could be a cash cow for campaigns and fund sweeps.
What happened to focusing on the State budget deficit? Seems to me that is what these folks should be doing rather than trying to create distractions. But then again, if you don’t have a clue…..
Comment by Justice Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 8:56 am
Justice,
I agree the legislature can’t manage a budget. That is obvious, and sad. This proposal is not an attempt to manage the budget of universities. It is an attempt to limit their ability to squeeze revenues out of middle class families to pay for huge salaries, exquisite presidential homes and faculty that don’t spend more than 15 hours a week in the classroom.
If you are one of them, sorry for hurting your feelings.
Comment by Old Milwaukee Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:09 am
PublicServant says…”He [Edgar] has been hired because of his vast experience in the political arena, and he is now transferring that knowledge to his students, and getting paid for it.”
You need a little enlightenment…Edgar’s “vast experience in the political arena” received a rocket boost by sucking up to Gov. Thompson and getting APPOINTED Sec. of State. He has a BS in History from Eastern Illinois and started his brief legislative career, once again, as an appointed State Representative. Edgar’s only real contested race was the 1990 Gubernatorial race which was Hartigan’s to lose, and he did.
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:10 am
The General Assembly ran more than a $13 billion deficit for 2 fiscal years. The General Assembly is on the hook for more than $84 billion in unfunded pension liability. The General Assembly trusts itself so little it had to adopt spending caps. The list goes on and on.
Anyone want to give them more authority?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:12 am
No. The last thing education needs is a state legislature deciding how a major university allocates its finances. If you need an example of a legislature out of control, just look to the North and imagine the consequences.
Comment by Geek Marine Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:14 am
No, The General Assembly can’t figure out how to spend their own money. Tuition money is the only thing keeping our Universities afloat because of the horrible spending plans coming from the Statehouse.
Comment by Ahoy Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:16 am
The more the Illinois GA messes with education, the better it will be for Indiana, Iowa, and Wisconsin. Those states will keep milking Illinois high-school graduates for their out-of-state tuition revenues. Hey, Illinois doesn’t need world-class public educational institutions. Who needs to slog through gen ed classes in literature or math to say “would you like fries with that”?
Comment by lakeview Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:19 am
Rich,
It looks like your April Fools joke has been very successful.
Waitaminnit… you’re serious… oh no… oh god, no!
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:20 am
Absolutely not. We’ve seen the legislature’s inability to effectively confront and deal with the state’s fiscal crisis in a timely manner. We’ve seen the legislature’s consistent failure to appropriately fund pension costs as they are earned and the situation we now face because of many years of irresponsible behavior with predictable outcomes. The last thing we need is to extend the scope of legislative involvement in matters such as these, especially those related to finances.
Comment by Customer Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:23 am
Lets not forget that the state held the Income funds in the state Treasury until 1998. The universities survived the bulk of their existence with the state appropriating their income funds - and appropriating monies in line items.
However, in these times, the income fund provides the flexibility for universities to survive the inability of the State to appropriate the money owed to universities. The GA forced these tuition increases by cutting the universities by over 20% since 2003. They charged them for health insurance on top of that and then require universities to eat most tuition waivers that used to be funded in the State’s budget.
So I say don’t take away the income fund until the state is cought up on thier bills to universites.
Lets not go to overboard here, as I said before the universities survived just fine for most of their existence with the state appropriating their income fund AND line item budgets. Now they have their income funds and get lump sum appropriations. It just doesn’t make sense right now to take that flexibility from them, not to mention when they are not spending the income funds as they get it, the universities earn more interest on these funds then the State could ever hope to. I just don’t see any financial sense in this idea right now.
Comment by Moderate REpub Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:30 am
There is virtually no oversight of how state universities spend their money. Saying “employees have not had a general wage increase” does not mean that university employees aren’t getting raises. I would like to see a person by person or position by position listing of salaries and wages from three years ago and today. Does this list exist and how is it accessed? These are public positions and these salaries and wages should be posted in the same manner as other state employees. A friend who works for a state university tells me substantial raises are routinely given for no additional duties.
Comment by 3 beers to Springfield Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:38 am
Deep south - start with browsing the front page of today’s SJ-R.
Comment by Excessively Rabid Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:39 am
@Louis Howe - If other sources of University funding aren’t considered, you’d have a point. But, sadly, that’s not the case. In 1970, the state provided $12.80 for every dollar collected in tuition. Today, the state pays 80 cents for every tuition dollar. State support for students has declined 37 percent in just 10 years, from $14,332 in 2001 to $9,067 this year. Ya think the above facts might account for a smidgen of the tuition increase that you’re railing about?
Far from a scam, the decrease in state support, and the fact that the state isn’t even paying that reduced amount to the universities on time, has forced the tuition increases. In addition, there hasn’t been a general salary increase at the U of I since August of 2008. You and others seem to be overly concerned with a few outlier salaries, so I thought I’d point that out. Finally, far from the quality of higher education being ubiquitous, I can assure you that it isn’t. UIUC is, in spite of the drastic reductions in state funding, one of the top 10 public universities in the country. It attracts students from all over the world. That’s something worth perserving…,and funding too.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:39 am
OT: Rich, your question of the day should be related to baseball. http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chicago-cubs-cant-believe-theyre-doing-this-again,19870/
Comment by Angry Republican Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:40 am
In one word NO!
Comment by mokenavince Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:42 am
Louis, I get it. You don’t think much of Governor Edgar. The professionals at U of I do. I’ll trust their judgement over yours any day.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:44 am
Yes. They should be able to cap it. Sad it has come to this, but these are public institutions and need to be accountable to someone. Sadly, it will be some pee-pee poor legislators or some of their cronies.
Do something with their tenure, make them work for a living and other cliches.
Comment by Wumpus Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:46 am
Yes. College tuition including state universities have been increasing at over 3x the rate of inflation the past decade. There is little or no accountability in our University system and with more money coming out of the pockets of students, there has to be some accountability for that money.
I agree with Senator Murphy on this one.
And the immediate knee jerk reaction of “oh, if this happens we will have to immediate cut back on educational programs” is the standard response of any educational institution, from college down to kindergarten. It’s old. It’s tired. It’s designed to frighten and not educate folks on the subject. It’s time they retire that overused line.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:48 am
Yes. As long as the state is subsidizing any activity, it’s going to have a say in how that activity is conducted. Better to have the mechanism for exercising this influence stated up front and in the open than hiding it.
Comment by Pat Robertson Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:59 am
I would think it’s something to consider, BUT the GA has proven over and over it can’t even manage the state’s money. How can Murphy even consider giving them more responsibility?? And especially for allocations in higher education, which the GA has consistently screwed already!
Comment by Liberal Lady Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 9:59 am
Of all the government service, public colleges and universities are more subject to free market economics than just about anything else. If tuition is higher than the education can justify, people will go elsewhere. If Jim Edgar has nothing to offer, no one will take his classes.
Public higher ed is far from perfect, but most of their fiscal problems can be traced back to the GA’s budget cuts, tuition caps, and other tinkering.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:00 am
No. The GA’s involvement is what makes Murphy’s plan unworkable and should immediately remove it from serious consideration. Now, had Murphy suggested that the control over spending be vested elsewhere: say a select group of smart seventh graders, or a committee composed of ice fishermen—–
Comment by Responsa Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:01 am
The question that comes to mind, that would in part influence my answer is. What other entities of the state collect a fee and get to use that fee as the entity determines?
Is it a lot, just higher ed? I am curious.
Comment by OneMan Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:08 am
Moderate REpub -
You are right. However, the General Assembly gave away that oversight (Mr. Schnorf would be helpful here) in return for the universities agreeing to pay Group Insurance premiums for employees paid from those Income funds (special state funds started paying Group Insurance premiums in FY 1987, and as of FY 1997 the Comptroller’s Office reports do not show the Universities paying). It seems to me this collectively cost the Universities in the range of $20 - $50 million, and in return for paying it the General Assembly gave up oversight of the Income funds. Mr. Schnorf? Anyone else?
Comment by Does anyone remember anything? Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:09 am
keep the GA out. but anything to increase transparency so the public can understand in a simple fashion how much revenue comes in and from what sources, and what is spent would be helpful. this is not particular to education, but all government funded entities. help the public understand financing, revenue
streams and expenditures.
Comment by amalia Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:15 am
amalia, I totally agree.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:17 am
GA used to have this control and they gave it up in 1996 when they realzed they were now the ones hiking tuition! Maybe if they take it back for a couple of years they will realize what they have done to public higher ed in this state.
Comment by been there done that Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:17 am
Certainly. The GA should absolutely take over the public universities . . . just as soon as they fix the mess they’ve created with the budget they do control.
Comment by BCross Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:21 am
Public universities need more accountability. The salaries of upper management and coaches are excessive. There is a great deal of waste at public universities. This is the primary reason I do not contribute to the ones that I attended.
Comment by So Blue Democrat Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:25 am
SBD - See Pot calling Kettle’s post above. That pretty much sums up the situation, and who universities are accountable to.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:29 am
No way! Hasn’t the General Assembly screwed up enough things already?
Comment by Anon Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:30 am
PublicServant,
You have not answered the key question. How many students does Edgar teach in a typical semester? What scholarly research has he accomplished? What is his annual salary?
Comment by So Blue Democrat Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:32 am
No. The State hasn’t been paying the Universities on time for years, leaving them cash strapped and on top of that the legislature want’s to control what revenue they have?
Comment by Bonsaso Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:35 am
Moderate REpub -
You are right. However, the General Assembly gave away that oversight (Mr. Schnorf would be helpful here) in return for the universities agreeing to pay Group Insurance premiums for employees paid from those Income funds (special state funds started paying Group Insurance premiums in FY 1987, and as of FY 1997 the Comptroller’s Office reports do not show the Universities paying). It seems to me this collectively cost the Universities in the range of $20 - $50 million, and in return for paying it the General Assembly gave up oversight of the Income funds. Mr. Schnorf? Anyone else?
Yes this is partially true, there were also other concessions but I guess I don’t understand what your point is? It wasn’t a secret, and I was staffing that issue at the time - so I feel pretty confident about it.
What I was referring to was in George’s last year in office, they sent the university system a bill for Group health, in the amount of $35 million. BHE set up the breakdown owed by each university. What was so great about it was it was not put into statute. They just send them a bill every year.
Comment by Moderate REpub Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:37 am
PublicServant says “You don’t think much of Governor Edgar. The professionals at U of I do. I’ll trust their judgment over yours any day.”
Spoken like a true academic bureaucrat. I am sure Edgar agrees, since he abolished the elected U of I Board of Trustees and then appointed his own friends. Perhaps that fact colored the judgment of “the professionals at the U of I.”
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:38 am
I know it’s April Fools Day…is this a trick question?
Absolutely not…as soon as the legislature is declared a bastion of financial ressponsibility by an independant watchdog for several years, then we can pose this as QOTD…
Comment by Loop Lady Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:40 am
Moderate REpub
My point is there is a history, and a deal, that the Senate GOP seems to be totally unaware of. No matter how “bad” this situation is, the General Assembly at the time agreed to. Something the current General Assembly should acknowledge.
Comment by Does anyone remember anything? Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:42 am
BTW, if enacted, would this provision be called Murphy’s Law?
Comment by Excessively Rabid Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:43 am
- Louis Howe - Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:38 am said:
PublicServant says “You don’t think much of Governor Edgar. The professionals at U of I do. I’ll trust their judgment over yours any day.”
Spoken like a true academic bureaucrat. I am sure Edgar agrees, since he abolished the elected U of I Board of Trustees and then appointed his own friends. Perhaps that fact colored the judgment of “the professionals at the U of I.”
Spoken like a true right wing zealot…
@SBD - I have no idea why you think that’s a key question, but if I knew, I’d tell you. How about supporting your statements?
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:52 am
Universities raise tuition to cover rising salaries that increase pensions that are covered by state taxpayers.
I see no reason for the General Assembly to step in.
Comment by piling on Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:53 am
The above comments show a lack of understanding of how top research universities work. UIUC tries to hire the best faculty in the world, and typically gets 100-200 applications for every faculty position. In engineering, the average faculty member writes proposals and brings in more than twice their salary in research grants, funded by government and industry. This grant money is used to hire graduate and undergraduate students to do research, run labs, and provide teaching assistance. Were the quality of the faculty to suffer, for example through legislative interference, the effects would ripple through the system and result in a downgrading of the quality of the whole enterprise.
Comment by OldIllini Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 10:58 am
PublicServant,
Since you think it is not a key question, I assume you think teachers should be paid for not teaching students.
Comment by So Blue Democrat Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 11:08 am
Absolutely not. Anyone complaining about the rise in tuition would do well to look at the private universities–they’re tuition is rising just as fast if not faster, so perhaps poor budgeting is not the problem.
But perhaps it would wind up with UIC getting a better deal and perhaps improving enough to eclipse that school down south.
Comment by cermak_rd Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 11:26 am
No to Murphy’s bill. The last thing universities need is more micromanaging from the General Assembly. These are state-supported universities, not state agencies. There is a world of difference.
If you want to ruin higher education in Illinois, let the General Assembly make the business decisions for its public universities. The market is doing a fine job of regulating tuition prices.
The sad fact is that the General Assembly, by coming up with bone-headed ideas like cohort pricing and reduced and delayed state funding, is more to blame for skyrocketing tuition than the universities.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 11:27 am
Hmmm…Who do I trust less holding the purse strings? Our state legislators or high level college administrators? This is kind of like asking who I would like to drive me home from the club - Amy Winehouse or Lindsay Lohan?
Comment by BigDoggie Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 11:40 am
I would sooner let the apes in Tropic World at Brookfield make budgetary decisions for universities than the GA.
I’m only kind of joking.
It’s like Congress setting postal rates. The GA would set tuition and fees at levels that are politically expedient, what is necessary.
I think one of the hard things for elected officials to feel out is the boundary between oversight and micromanaging. This is micromanaging.
Comment by Elmhurst Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 11:43 am
@SBD - “Since you think it is not a key question, I assume you think teachers should be paid for not teaching students.”
See OldIllini’s comment just above yours…He has it right.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 12:07 pm
Mr. Rabid….I looked at the SJR website and found no evidence of what you speak of. Yes, there is an article about some assault charges at UIS…but no examples that “universities are horribly inefficient and unaccountable.” So you’re still at zero.
Comment by Deep South Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 12:40 pm
Deep South,
Allow me to interpret.
UIS athletic staff leaves with no official explanation. Media asks why, told nothing.
Media wants answers. Goes to AG to force release, finds out students alleged sexual assault, finds out university paid $200,000 settlement. Wants to know more about use of public dollars. Forced to go to court to force disclosure.
Seem accountable to you?
Comment by piling on Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 12:50 pm
OldIllini…We not talking about the research facility, but rather, the number of VPs and other bureaucrats running the university.
Comment by Louis Howe Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 1:21 pm
No - university presidents understand they are dealing with tighter budgets and can make those conversations better than legislators can.
Comment by Robert Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 1:31 pm
No. As has been mentioned previously, these are the few public entities that are subject to market forces. If the student or the parents don’t want to pay the tuition, they can go to another cheaper school. If the GA takes control, they’d make our universities the laughingstock that State Government has already become.
Comment by Norseman Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 1:36 pm
Has anyone noticed that the House Higher Education Appropriations Committee is holding a hearing on the budgets of the UofI and ISU on the UofI campus on April 4 and NOT in the Capitol (or even the capital)? Who is in whose pocket here? Did Western Illinois University give its budget testimony in Macomb? Did Governors State University give its testimony on its campus? Plus, in a supposed budget crunch taxpayers get to foot the bill for the 19 committee members to travel to Champaign on a non-session day. Wonder what the UofI budget figures will be for FY12.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 1:48 pm
Piling on….
Probably not…but geez…aren’t you painting a pretty broad stroke using just one example? But OK, just to keep things going we’ll say that’s one, even though it hardly indicts the entire system. So…nine to go.
Comment by Deep South Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 2:33 pm
God no. The General Assembly deserves a lot of the blame for our universities’ funding problems.
Comment by TJ Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 3:38 pm
U of I’s Administrative costs are not out of line, Lou. I’m sure you believe that to be the case, but I, for one, would like to see some evidence supporting your off-the-cuff statements about “the number of VPs and other bureaucrats running the university.”
You “served on a regional college trustee board”? For someone with such a jaded outlook on higher education, that must have been some service. Did you go around making blanket statements without providing any evidence there too?
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 3:44 pm
Does anyone still think about students? Or is it just about the universities, the State Government and money?
UI lower-division undergrads paid better then 75% of their instructional costs according to IBHE’s cost study that year. They were crowded into Follinger Hall, seating about 600 to listen to a TA. They were massively subsidizing upper division students, and especially research. Have any of you seen what a UI research grant application looks like? You start with a modest $40k proposal and, when UI is done, you end-up with a $200k proposal.
So: let’s talk about tuition and tuition policy:
In the seventies (and before) the General Assembly set tuition rates, and students would come to the GA to make their case.
In the eighties, tuition became an appropriation from funds collected to the Universities Income Fund, (tuition and student fees), but still appropriated by the General Assembly. At the close of the eighties, UI managed to quash the GA setting university tuitions for students, but couldn’t prevent the Board of Higher Education from continuing to calculate just how much students were paying for their actual instructional costs.
I won’t reference the Illinois Student Association here, and rich would likely delete the comment if I did, but I must say that the current tuition policy, which permits universities to charge whatever the traffic will bear and ignores their public mission, is not a course that deserves public support.
Comment by david starrett Friday, Apr 1, 11 @ 7:01 pm