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A plan is not a bill

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Illinois

* Republicans dissed Gov. Pat Quinn’s budget proposals at a McLean County Republican Party lunch event this week…

“Gov. Quinn’s budget is a catastrophe,” said state Sen. Bill Brady of Bloomington, Quinn’s opponent in the 2010 election. “Under his plan we will be $20 billion in debt in four years.”

State Rep. Keith Sommers of Morton called on Quinn to work with everyone in the General Assembly on creating a good budget for the state.

State Rep. Dan Brady of Bloomington said a GOP proposal would cut $3.5 billion from the state’s budget by making “surgical cuts” to programs in education, Medicaid and general services.

“We can’t take a large chunk but let’s at least start by looking at how we can spread out the cuts,” Dan Brady said. “The first thing we have to do is stop digging the hole and making it bigger.”

There’s no denying that the governor’s budget proposal was a huge miscalculation and even a disaster. I’ll give Sen. Brady that.. Quinn proposed increasing state spending and borrowing billions of dollars. Not a great plan, and it’s been thoroughly rejected by both legislative chambers.

What we haven’t seen, however, are actual Republican bills that would cut Quinn’s budget. They speak of a plan, but a plan isn’t real until it’s in bill format. So far, nothing. I’m really getting tired of repeating myself, but until I see a bill, there’s no plan.

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 7:12 am

Comments

“What we haven’t seen, however, are actual Republican bills that would cut Quinn’s budget.”

Can the same be said about Pat’s budget? I did not know there were any bills associated with his budget, so like the Republicans, Quinn also has no plan…

Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:11 am
Cinci: The are multiple approp. bills that have been filed that reflect the Gov’s introduced budget and they are not shells.

Comment by Give Me A Break Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:15 am
Cincinnatus — Have you ever seen the state budget book? Sheesh.

Comment by soccermom Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:15 am
The Quinn budget plan is a joke. Vaught believes in just borrowing with little thought to paying back. The legacy of this undynamic duo portends an even more horrific financial legacy than the one they inherited.

Even if the republicans put some actual bills in I don’t see how this sorry mess has a good ending for anyone.

Comment by Realist Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:21 am
I agree that Quinn’s plan is not worthy of enacting. What I do not understand is Bill Brady’s reaction to it. During the campaign Brady said he had a plan. It is time for Brady to introduce this plan via legislation.

Comment by MOON Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:29 am
Can the same be said about Pat’s budget?

No.

I did not know there were any bills associated with his budget, so like the Republicans, Quinn also has no plan…

Your ignorance does not mean that Quinn has no plan.

Comment by dave Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:37 am
There ought to be a constitutional amendment requiring the submission of a budget, backed by bills for both the majority and the opposition.

Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:40 am
They’re going to cut “10% across the board” not tell you what it means or where the cuts will be. When pressed on the issue, they will deny they ever said it. When shown a video of them saying they would cut 10% across the board, they’ll claim they misspoke.

Why does anyone think they will put their “ideas” into a bill?

Comment by Ahoy Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:54 am
Just curious…does Madigan not have a plan then? I think he has spelled out his plan very clearly. They have a revenue estimate, allocations for certain areas of the budget and are working (in a bipartisan manner) to come up with appropriation bills. Is this not a plan simply because bills have yet to be filed? Hardly. Same with the Republicans. And despite what is said publicly, the Republicans and Democrats in the Senate are working together to craft budget bills. Everything else is just posturing that some have bought into for some reason. They should probably know better.

Comment by Eastside Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 8:54 am
Quinn’s budget may not be the final answer, but at least he has something in writing. Where is B Brady’s written alternative? And what are the D Brady ’surgical cuts’? Anyone on this blog can say the same things. Alternative budgets from special interest groups exist, so it should not be too hard to find a package these guys could put their name on. Or create their own. Otherwise it’s just campaigning talk.

Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:05 am
I genuinely believe the Republicans are playing this all wrong. I understand why they would rather strike backroom agreements than give political fodder to the Democrats in public– but if they believe that cuts are the answer, it is far past time to step up and show them. Cullerton and Quinn are never going to propose anything other than more spending with more borrowing. Credit where due, it seems that Madigan is at least trying to cut down some of the excesses, but that just beats the silent Republicans at their own game. Showing real leadership and proposing an alternative to the spend/borrow approach of the Democrats will win more votes than the pork cuts will lose.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:12 am
This is getting pretty funny. For so long the IL GOP slogan has been “The Dems won’t let us have a place at the table.” Now it seems they’re going to have to change it to “We’re afraid to sit at the table with the Dems.”

Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:14 am
There is not reason for the R’s to present a specific plan. Their message should be, simply, reduce spending, oppose massive borrowing, and let the majority party be responsible for the solution. It is a political win for them. R’s are in a good place, so why should they leave it?

Comment by Truth Seeker Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:23 am
The Republican leadership should create a plan that produces the 10% cuts and put it in Bill form. It would not be popular with everyone, and would have no chance of moving, but at least that gives them position to debate the issues from a much stronger position.

Comment by downstate hack Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:24 am
Cheer up! Just wait till bills start getting introduced and it’s still obvious that nobody has a plan.

Comment by Pat Robertson Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:30 am
- R’s are in a good place, so why should they leave it? -

Huh?

Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:36 am
The Republicans do have a plan. The plan is to keep pretending that they have the answers, and that if the Dems would just listen to them they would tell us what the plans are.

Comment by Tom Joad Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:39 am
The Republicans will sit at the table and get crumbs when the dust settle. Who will suffer when the Senate GOP bills go down in flames one at a time at the hands of the majority?

They offer to put 15 votes up on each proposal and they get ridiculed. The Democrat counter offer is? ( . . . crickets chirping . . . )

Who will suffer when this legislative session ends with the GOP proposals/bills going down in flames, one at a time?

We the people of the State of Illinois.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:40 am
Yep, no plans, just whining. That’s Bill Brady in a nutshell and it’s why he lost.

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:45 am
Did we call forget that NoTaxBill’s budget plan…if the bloggoofs think PQ is bad just imagine the nightmare of NoTaxBill at the controls
There is not enough silly sauce to cope with this one.
BTW it is good to see Keith “Silent Sam” Sommer has regain the use of his voice.

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:52 am
“- Truth Seeker - Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:23 am:

There is not reason for the R’s to present a specific plan. Their message should be, simply, reduce spending, oppose massive borrowing, and let the majority party be responsible for the solution. It is a political win for them. R’s are in a good place, so why should they leave it?”
TS-
This seems to be the current strategy, but why is it “a political win?” Without proposing bills, there is no chance of them passing, so how can that be a win?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 9:54 am
“Under Pat Brady’s budget I may have to pay some income taxes. This is the worst catastrophe ever in our state’s history if not in world history….Yes, everything does revolve around me.” - BB

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 10:00 am
Rough week at the blog for Cinci.

I agree with Rich, it is really hard to take a plan for something as large and complicated as a state budget seriously if no one even bothered to write it down.

Comment by Obamarama Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 10:00 am
Quinn’s budget. oops.

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 10:01 am
Predictions:

1. A budget will pass without a single Republican vote.

2. Madigan and Cullerton will make sure Republicans are on record opposing budget cuts.

3. Despite their press releases claiming that they were for less spending and more cuts, Republicans won’t be able to point to a specific plan of their own to compare with the Democrats nor specific votes for their plan.

4. The budget debate will be a wash with voters, and other factors will loom larger in 2012: employment figures, consumer confidence, the Democratic fundraising advantage, Presidential election turnout, a new map.

5. Democrats will make substantial but not sweeping gains in the Senate and House.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:00 am
Why throw out a plan as they have no power to introduce it anyway. This is what politics has become.

Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:08 am
TS-
This seems to be the current strategy, but why is it “a political win?”

Without proposing bills, there is no chance of them passing, so how can that be a win?

Anonymous - If the repubs file the bills there is still no chance of them passing. The Dems will just use this to say the repubs are “draconian” in cutting the budget. Then in two years the dems will put pics of Senator X pushing a senior down the stairs, and their walker on top of them. Why take the abuse and the “political lose” when we know the dems won’t vote for the bills? In the words of Sheen - Not losing is “winning”.

As the Repubs said these are ideas to sit down and start with. Re-institute budgeteers that worked all through the 1990’s. Let representatives of each caucus give their input, and maybe we have the first agreed to budget since George. If you look back, budgeteers gave use agreed to budgets through most of the 1990’s. Blago got rid of this process and it has never been re-instituted. I know that has to do with the Democrats controlling the exec branch and both houses. Look what that’s gotten us - the last two years the dems in the GA have sent lump sum budgets to Quinn who wouldn’t cut a dime. Shameful……

Comment by Moderate REpub Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:10 am
Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:00 am:

Predictions:

1. A budget will pass without a single Republican vote.

True.

2. Madigan and Cullerton will make sure Republicans are on record opposing budget cuts.

What? Wrong. I think the Ed boards have given the repubs plenty of credit on wanting to cut the budget. Its not going to be hard to explain a “No” vote because the Dems didn’t cut enough when our budget will still be upside down and the “temporary” tax will be on its way to being permanent..

3. Despite their press releases claiming that they were for less spending and more cuts, Republicans won’t be able to point to a specific plan of their own to compare with the Democrats nor specific votes for their plan.

So - what is your point? They don’t need to explain it beyond “the Dems didn’t make hard choices, they chose to limp along. “Vote republican - We have the balls to make the cuts”
And they do have a plan - Cut more than the Democrats did.

4. The budget debate will be a wash with voters, and other factors will loom larger in 2012: employment figures, consumer confidence, the Democratic fundraising advantage, Presidential election turnout, a new map.

You think in less than 2 years the presidents numbers are going to come out of the cellar? You think Consumer confidence is going to be twice what it now? Same with employment figures? You have listed everything that will be an advantage for republicans.

5. Democrats will make substantial but not sweeping gains in the Senate and House.

This may be true, but it will be because of the MAP nothing else.

Comment by Moderate REpub Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:21 am
Well you know the Senate GOP is less than clear on the concept when they put a trial lawyer from their caucus in charge of budget issues, or at least seems to be the spokesman. I’m talking about Matt Murphy. The small law firm where he’s listed is all torts it looks like. I wonder if Matt ever even took an accounting class.

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:29 am
- Not losing is “winning”. -

Fortunately, the IL GOP is pretty consistently losing.

Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:30 am
I thought the Senate GOP plan was a great start and think they should go all in, file bills, debate them on the merits in the open and call the roll, just like they drew it up in civics class.

Give folks an alternative. That’s how minority parties become majority parties.

The problem, I suspect, for Radogno in pursuing that course is that many members of that caucus absolutely refuse to take a tough vote, ever, on anything.

To them, it’s a good thing being in the minority — all the benefits of holding office without any of the responsibilities of governing.

That’s one way to go, but it ain’t no way to live.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:38 am
Posturing is not governing. It’s not a strategy either. It’s an abdication of responsibility and voters see right through it. The Illinois GOP will be a permanent minority party if they stick to this silly gamesmanship.

Wordslinger is correct: the SGOPs started well with a good list of specifics put out for discussion and debate. They’ve since moved backwards. That’s the opposite of leadership.

Legislators are elected to legislate, not pontificate. It’s time to get in the game, roll up your sleeves and test your ideas. Of course, that means your hands might get a little dirty, but that’s how you earn your paycheck in Springfield.

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:47 am
Winning can be just watching an opponent lose at a game that you are not playing in. True in sports and politics.

Comment by Nuance Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:13 pm
There are two voices in play here right now. The R’s have put forth their general plan with their 6B in cuts. Put it into legislation and debate it. Most D’s think the revenues are projected to be to high and want spending cut. Agreement can be had on a lot of things.

R’s seem to want stalemate, make Quinn look even more inept and not be able to get anything done.

It took legislative courage to vote for the tax increase. Nobody likes more taxes but where would the state’s deficit be without them.

Move forward, agree on the spending cuts and pay something to the vendors.

Comment by Barry S Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:17 pm
The plan of the majority party that controls all the processes of government is? ( . . . crickets still chirping . . . )

Or is the “plan” to debate the Republican proposals one by one, call them stupid one by one, and defeat them all one by one, leaving Republicans voting for needed cuts and Democrats not voting for them (or voting present as they did with the Workers’ Comp bill)? This process takes away any leverage the minority party this legislative session.

Or is the plan to adopt the Quinn budget Rich has labeled a “disaster” and a “huge miscalculation” and then blame the Republicans?

Either way, its time for the majority party controlling both legislative chambers in Springfield and the Governor’s office to get their act together on a budget.

They are in the driver’s seat. The minority party is in the back seat. Where they take us is ultimately their decision.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:17 pm
“Winning can be just watching an opponent lose at a game that you are not playing in,” said Charlie Sheen, spokesman for Sen. Bill Brady, R-Bloomington.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:17 pm
““Winning can be just watching an opponent lose at a game that you are not playing in,” said Charlie Sheen, spokesman for Sen. Bill Brady, R-Bloomington.”

Actually from Pat Quinn when Kirk Dillard lost in the primary:)

Comment by Nuance Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:24 pm
Republicans need to take some chances. Nothing to lose. Gobs of them are going to lose next year anyway in Illinois with redistricting and Obama back on the ballot in his home state.

Would anyone notice the difference if the Rs left Springfield? I don’t think the average person would. That’s why no one is really excited about redistricting, other than the lawmakers themselves who have an obvious personal interest.

Comment by just sayin' Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:28 pm
It’s been obvious from day one that Brady (candidate) knows nothing at all about the budget. Every number I’ve ever heard him quote has been way off. Murphy often just plays to the audience. Radogno is the credible GOP source, if you really want to know the facts.

Comment by walkinfool Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 12:38 pm
Yellow Dog D,

Your analysis of the budget situation is way off so let’s first start by differentiating the Senate R’s and the House R’s. The Senate R’s have their budget ideas that are a good start but as predicted by many will never be put into bill form. They have shown their hand and now they are just waving it around indiscriminately. They got trumped before the game started.

What is going on in the house is a completely different ballgame. It seems like Madigan and Cross are working together to put together a budget that can pass. They both co-sponsored the revenue estimate resolution. They both agreed to pass the parts of the budget that need to pass like pensions and Dept service. They both went to the Appropriations committees to explain to the various committees what was left for them to put in the budget. Now their respective budget staffs are working together on a budget.

What seems to be happening in the House is the way government should run. So when you say there will be no Republican votes on this budget I believe you are wrong. In the house I think you will see a mix of R’s and D’s that support the budget. Will this détente last? Who knows? I believe Madigan has the most to lose by breaking the truce. He allowed revenues to be pegged and has the full support of Cross and the House R’s so for him to change plans midstream could be mud in his eye.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 1:04 pm
Madigan “has the full support of Cross and the House R’s . . .”

Exactly the problem. One has to wonder why.

Comment by 42nd Ward Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 1:31 pm
I used to think that the people who we elect to State Goverment where good people who would make the right choices for the majority of thier voters. I’ve come to the conculsion that this isn’t the case. It seems that as soon as the elected politicians get down to Springfield they contract a disease that affects thier ability to govern. It’s called whats in it for me and if I do that will it make me more popular or less popular ( a very poor way to govern). Untill, we inact really strong and daconian cuts in the way we finance elections this will continue. There will be no plan from the R’s because there is no whats in it for me. There will be a choice by the D’s based upon whats more popular not whats the best solution. What a mess. Neither side will cave and the citizens will suffer from ineptitude.

Comment by Palatine Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 1:57 pm
–Or is the “plan” to debate the Republican proposals one by one, call them stupid one by one, and defeat them all one by one, leaving Republicans voting for needed cuts and Democrats not voting for them (or voting present as they did with the Workers’ Comp bill)?–

Louis, Senate Dems have been taking a beating on editorial pages across the state for the present votes on the Workers’ Comp. bill. I’d say the defeat of the bill strengthens the Senate GOP position on the subject for the future.

Now the Dems are on the hot seat to come up with something. That’s how you advance the ball when you’re in the minority, you stir it up.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 2:41 pm
@Nagidam -

The real cuts are coming in House Human Services Appropriations. Every report I’ve heard is that not a single Republican plans on voting for them.

Agreeing on the revenue estimates, even the mega appropriations is easy.

Voting for an actual bill that contains actual cuts to cherished programs — cherished on both sides of the aisle — isn’t just a whole ‘nother ball game. Its an entirely different sport.

Nope - when the time comes to eliminate funding for crisis nurseries, slash funding for domestic violence prevention, youth services…Democrats will be debating themselves while Republicans stand on the sidelines.

You can bet on it.

The alternative for Republicans is to exit the Neverland fantasy they’ve been living in for the past five years and admit that cuts to the state budget have real world consequences.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 3:01 pm
make that lie down…

Comment by Loop Lady Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 3:04 pm
@Yellow Dog D

I would have to look at the members on the Appropriations committee. You may be right when it comes to a committee vote as there are some fairly liberal R’s. My discussion is in the context of the overall budget vote on the House floor. There will be some city D’s and suburban R’s that will not vote for a budget that has these type of cuts. A coalition of conservative D’s and conservative R’s will get the budget passed.

You can bet on it.

Then let’s see what happens in the Senate. As I said Madigan has his troops all in so it will be hard for him to move off any potential agreement in the house. The real fun will be to see what happens with the Senate R’s. Will they align themselves with Cullerton, vote with the House, or stamp their feet in the corner.

Comment by Nagidam Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 3:32 pm
=== The alternative for Republicans is to exit the Neverland fantasy they’ve been living in for the past five years and admit that cuts to the state budget have real world consequences. = = =

Which Neverland fantasy got us into this mess on a State level these past 5 years? You have me a little confused.

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 4:18 pm
I have been watching the House Elem and Secondary Approp Committee. I have my doubts if they will be able to agree on line by line budget reductions for the Quinn proposed ISBE budget. You can’t simply cut 5 or 10% from each line, because some lines are linked to federal funding and if you go too low you may lose federal funds.

This Committee does not have the staff to look at these kind of detailed cuts. It is one thing to amend an appropriation bill by adding money, that is easy for a House Committee, but to actually cut what can be cut and not cut what can not be cut, well that is a different question.

Comment by Rod Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 5:06 pm
This is the same tactic that allowed Brady to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You cant just stand around yelling “They are wrong!”. You have to stand up and show what is the right way to go. Develop a plan, lay it out, and have the debate. The GOP in IL has learned nothing from 2010. If you want to build support, you have to put something out there for people to support.

Comment by SO IL M Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 6:43 pm
Here’s one plan that hopefully won’t become a bill: Quinn wants more borrowing…1 to 2 bln for energy efficiency.
http://bit.ly/eY2F4K

Comment by Precinct Captain Tuesday, Apr 19, 11 @ 11:34 pm