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*** UPDATE *** Sen. Ira Silverstein, who is Jewish, is not amused by Boch’s antics…
“This is a poor analogy, a very poor analogy,” said Silverstein (D-Chicago), who is Jewish and represents numerous Holocaust survivors in his district that includes Rogers Park and Skokie. “It brings back horrible memories. To compare this to Lisa Madigan is totally absurd.
“It offended not only me but a lot of Jewish individuals and non-Jewish individuals who know the history of the Holocaust. [This group] should think before they print these things,” he said.
But Boch refused to back down…
“That image on the front of GunNews says a whole lot. The FOID card information that could be made public is identifying Illinois gun owners. It’s the first step toward what happened in Germany in the 1930s,” he said.
Boch criticized Silverstein, husband of newly elected North Side Ald. Debra Silverstein, for objecting to the analogy.
“What is offensive is people wielding the victimhood card against others and trying to intimidate others out of their First Amendment rights. Sen. Silverstein ought to be thanking us for our advocacy of his First and Second Amendment rights, not whining and crying that he feels offended,” Boch said. “He doesn’t have a copyright on Holocaust imagery.”
Boch truly is utterly, wholly clueless. He accuses a Jew of “playing the victimhood card” after Boch had the audacity to compare the attorney general to Hitler just because she responded to an Associated Press FOIA request in a way in which he didn’t approve? Boch predicted Madigan’s actions will lead to the genocide of gun owners, but it’s Silverstein who’s playing the victim for objecting? Mr. Boch, you’ve got it completely backwards. You are playing the victim here. And a hugely obnoxious one at that.
Silverstein has a right to be offended and to express his offense. Boch has a right to say what he wants, but if he’s going to be this ridiculous, then he should be called out for it.
On a more practical note, however, the NRA’s Todd Vandermyde had better muzzle his extremists before they tube his bill.
* Bernie Schoenburg has a column today about some truly weird people. Bernie is Jewish, and he was jarred when he saw an edition of GunNews distributed at the Statehouse with a front-page photo of a “a replica of the Jewish star-shaped patch, with the word ‘Jude’ in the center, that some Jews in Nazi-dominated Europe were forced to wear on their clothes.” The GunNews article was about Attorney General Lisa Madigan’s ruling that only the names of FOID card holders should be released to the public via the Freedom of Information Act.
John Boch publishes GunNews and runs Guns Save Life. You may have seen this group’s Burma Shave-style billboards along Illinois’ interstate highways. Boch defended the front page…
[Boch] said release of names of FOID cardholders would harass and demonize them, just as Jews were in World War II.
“I don’t believe … that people of the Jewish faith have a monopoly on the symbols of the religion,” said Boch, a Christian.
“Given the opinions of those on the political left in our society,” he added, “frankly, I think a lot of people in our society would like to see gun owners either imprisoned or exterminated.”
Man, that’s some serious paranoia. Release of FOID card names would result in Nazi-style death camps? A lot of people want to see gun owners exterminated? What country does he think we live in?
And it gets even weirder…
[Boch] also referred me to one of his affiliated groups I hadn’t heard of — Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. A message of that group, according to its website, is how some governments historically have deprived people of firearms and then “wiped them from the face of the earth.”
Bob Meier, interim executive director, who splits time between Chicago and DeKalb, said he’s Lutheran
Um, the head of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership is a Lutheran? Really?
* Meanwhile, on a more serious note…
A 2009 Illinois State Police report cited “significant information gaps” in the state’s ability to detect and screen out people with serious mental illnesses who might go on a shooting rampage. A state police official testified last week that those gaps still exist.
Illinois falls short in its reporting of psychiatric hospital admissions to the FBI as required by a federal law passed after the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings, according to the ISP report. Gaps also exist in reporting by health professionals and nursing homes of dangerous mentally ill people who should be disqualified from gun ownership under Illinois law.
Last week, Illinois State Police Firearms Bureau Chief John Coffman told lawmakers at a hearing that the reporting problems still exist and have caused him “some sleepless nights.”
“The concern is the name of a prohibited person would be found in a queue someplace after an event,” Coffman said in an official audio recording of the April 14 hearing provided to The Associated Press. “We are concerned about the existence of some gaps and the potential tragedy that could occur as a result.”
Richard Pearson of the Illinois State Rifle Association said the info gaps are small and said people were making “a mountain out of a molehill because they don’t want to have concealed carry in Illinois.”
Thoughts?
* Related…
* State Police can’t keep track of their stuff: An audit of the Illinois State Police released April 7 shows problems with inventory control, information security and more, but ISP says it lacks the resources to address some problems.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:03 am
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Kooky fanatics are in every camp. Hatemongers, peace lovers, Dems, Repubs, Lutherans, Atheists, etc.
(Can’t we all just get along?)
Comment by Damfunny Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:13 am
Yeah that guy isn’t helping those of us who may believe citizens should be able to own guns.
Comment by Levois Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:15 am
Serious paranoia?
How many Jews in Germany in the 1920s would ever guess their government would gas them in showers or machinegun them and their families, right down to infants?
This symbolism with the Holocaust is fair in that the slippery slope for the Jews in Germany began first with their identification, then disarmament then annihilation. Under Attorney General Madigan’s plan, Illinois gun owners will be identified publicly and will stand on the precipice of their own slippery slope towards ends unknown.
It’s interesting how some folks wield the victimhood of others as a weapon quite effectively.
Truly, sadly, a shame.
The article which formerly appeared in the April 2011 issue of GunNews on the http://www.gunssavelife.com website described how Lisa Madigan proposed - er, no, ADVOCATED to release the names of all FOID card holders in Illinois to the press. Why? We’re not sure, but FOID card holders are not registered sex offenders. Actually, we’re registered gun owners. …As if owning a gun was some sort of crime in and of itself.
As we noted in our first update, the Jews were identified, then disarmed then annihilated in that order.
If some believe it’s in poor taste to use Holocaust imagery, that’s their opinion. We, as Guns Save Life, don’t advocate under their politically correct rule book.
These short-sighted dealers of the “victimhood” card should try to respect those of us who utilize our First Amendment rights to protect *their* First *and* Second Amendment rights, even if they choose not to exercise them.
Comment by Mr. Boch Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:16 am
This is the type of person who wants concealed-carry. Do we really want delusional paranoid people walking around with a hidden loaded weapon? I don’t want to sound over the top, but I really don’t want to make it legal for people like this to carry around weapons in public places.
Weird.
Comment by Ahoy Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:16 am
===Man, that’s some serious paranoia.===
That seems to be a common trait of the most vocal pro-gun advocates. It’s both odd and alarming.
I’m not necessarily pro-gun, but I have a FOID and own a shotgun, so I’m not anti-gun either, by a long stretch. The rhetoric from some of the strong supporters/leaders of the pro-gun crowd is the single greatest factor holding them back. If they stopped scaring the heck out of people we’d all be much better off.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:19 am
LOL. I encourage readers of CapitolFax download the April 2011 issue of GunNews and see our “paranoia” for yourselves. It’s not hard to find on the http://www.gunssavelife.com website.
The acting head of JPFO didn’t ask for the position, but was asked to be an interim head when Aaron Zelman passed away last December.
By the way, why the concern from Bernie over everyone’s religion?
Comment by Mr. Boch Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:25 am
Mr. Boch, you are welcome to comment here, but I’m going to remind you that we have strict rules. Stick to them or you’ll find yourself deleted.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:27 am
Attorney General Madigan just didn’t wake up one day and say, “Hey, let’s release all of the FOID cardholder names.” She was responding to a newspaper request of the State Police to release the records. She interpreted the FOIA law to say that those records must be released. In case you haven’t been following all of the FOIA stories, there are a lot of requests and rulings by the Attorney General related to FOIA. She didn’t “come after gun owners.” Do I think they should be released? No. But that is why lawmakers decided to try and change the law to exempt it from FOIA. I think people should try to keep their hyperbole to a bare minimum. Everyone always has to invoke the Nazi’s with everything. Get a grip.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:33 am
Heavily armed and heavily paranoid is no way to go through life.
Neither, for that matter, is Lutheran-pretending-to-be-Jewish.
Comment by South of Sherman Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:41 am
Why should the gun nuts have rights the rest of us don’t have? No one has to FOIA the list of registered lobbyists, for example. My insurance company doesn’t have to FOIA for my diving record. What do they have to hide, anyway? Judging from some of these posts and that crazy magazine many of them wouldn’t know which way to point the stupid gun in the first place.
Comment by Bill Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:42 am
Registered lobbyists are working with the government and are not the same as private citizens.
I believe when you sign an insurance policy, you are going the company permission to verify your driving record.
Given this, how do you compare gun owners these groups?
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:49 am
Mr. Boch, Demoralized addresses a major piece of the story that you mistakenly or purposely omit — Madigan is interpreting the FOIA related to public records — as Demoralized said, she didn’t wake up and decide on her own that the records need to be released.
Another major flaw in your logic is that in the 1930’s and 1940’s there was no master computer database of Jews — the government went out and started identifying Jews for the purposes of restricting their rights and then their extermination. In this case, the government already has the records of FOID holders — if it was the desire of the government to identify FOID holders, they don’t need to publicly release the information to gain access to the information — they already have that information.
When people criticize your arguments, it is not about being politically correct — it’s because your contentions are ludicrous and minimizes the Holocaust.
I’m speaking as both a Jew and a FOID holder.
Comment by Just Observing Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:49 am
I’m curious. Shortly after I applied for and received my IL FOID card, I started getting direct mail from certain sporting magazines and pro-gun organizations seeking subscriptions/memberships. Does ISP or any other state agency sell the FOID mailing lists to 3rd parties?
It’s entirely possible these groups got my name elsewhere. But if the state is making the data available to marketers, I see no reason they can’t make it public.
Does anyone know for sure about whether the FOID list is ever made available for 3rd party use?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:49 am
Demoralized - I agree completely!! It wasn’t even “the government” who requested the names; it was the press.
Government employees already have their names, salaries, and employer’s name publicly listed all over the place. Wouldn’t it be just as logical that criminals would go through those lists and look for people with high salaries to target for theft/crime? I certainly don’t think anyone (well, most, anyway!) asking for that information is asking because they think that working for the government is a crime.
Comment by Katiedid Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:51 am
Seems the anti-gunners are a bit selective in what they want to talk about, or quote.
The hearing was contrived by Rep. Osterman for the purpose of trying to use the FOID system as way to oppose concealed carry.
What came out at the hearing was that the 120,000 figure of missing records or those not in the system is a fabrication. A guess by others and the State Police dispute it.
The State Police figure they need about $7 Million to build a new computer system. They received a grant from DOJ for about $1.2 mill and have been hung up getting the project going because of HB-51 the new ethics and procurement reform. They are worried that not using the money in a timely fashion to update the system and records will cause them to lose out on future grants.
The estimated that a new system that would include a carry permit, would cost a bit more.
Illinois has complicated the mental health issue by putting in a standard that is much more subject and goes beyond the fact that a person has been adjudicated by a court or committed. It complicates things. But as DHS testified, some docs don’t report a dangerous person, because they won’t let a person get that far, because if they do they will commit them. So THEIR logic is why report someone I am treating, who is not a threat, but if they go over the edge why just report them and let it be as opposed to committing them for more treatment which automatically gets them reported to DHS.
What we also learned is that State Police expect to see 325,000 applicants for carry permits. This would net them $9.75 mill. That’s NET. That more than pays for a new system. Taking the State Police numbers, in years 6,7,8 with no new permitees and just renewals, that brings in about $3.25 annually. More than enough for maintenance and to cover costs, including personnel.
Does the FOID/FTIP system need to be upgraded? Yes. And we have a way to pay for it without taking money away from GRF. Matter of fact, the HB148 is more than revenue neutral these days, it’s a positive to the State Police. It would increase their headcount at FOID/FTIP/RTC. Build a better infrastructure and solve some of their problems.
So it looks like the anti-gunners are opposing the very thing they complain about, a revenue stream to fix a aging system.
Todd
Oh one more thing, isn’t this the same system that they want to dump or force all private sales into with Osterman’s bill? So on one hand they argue about it not being good enough, but then that is the system that we MUST force all private sales into. Hmmm
Comment by Todd Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:56 am
===Registered lobbyists are working with the government and are not the same as private citizens.===
What?
Have you ever read the 1st Amendment?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:56 am
It’s because these folks truly believe that “the government” is coming after them to put them in internment camps. It is all being orchestrated by Obama. Don’t believe me? Google Oathkeepers and read the blog comments. That stuff is a lot scarier.
I too believe people have the right to own a gun but crazy people shouldn’t. It’s sad that our state isn’t doing the job after the NIU tragedy.
Comment by Marcus Agrippa Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 11:59 am
Demoralize and 47 made great points. The Attorney General’s actions were legitimate and part of her duties. They are neither part of some grand conspiracy nor an effort to disarm anyone.
Yet, let’s pose this. What if we find through FOIA that somehow through a bureaucratic error (hard to imagine I know) a convicted felon has obtained a FOID card or someone who is under 21 got one without parents permission. Those are challenges that should be known and addressed. So I’m not totally opposed to the publication of FOID information.
47 is also right, the incendiary imagery “advocacy on our terms” doesn’t help you guys one bit.
Comment by siriusly Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:04 pm
The government (and its citizens) have the ability to restrict lobbyists access and provide reporting requirements, as have been demonstrated numerous times at the SCOTUS. Accountability you know. In order to provide their services, lobbyists give up those rights.
A principled argument can be made to get rid of the requirement to have lobbyist register with the government, and their names reported, and my libertarian leanings think this may be a good one to boot. Would you support it, Rich?
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:05 pm
Mr. Boch, please name ten Illinoisans who want to have gun owners exterminated.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:05 pm
47th, if a newspaper can request the list under FOIA, then so can marketers. Here in DeKalb — and no, I do not know Mr. Meier — more than half the FOIA requests are commercial requests (though it’s the public interest requests the public servants call “FOIA abuse”).
Comment by yinn Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:05 pm
yinn, mass marketers would have zero use for lists without addresses.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:07 pm
My bad.
Comment by yinn Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:09 pm
–after I applied for and received my IL FOID card, I started getting direct mail from certain sporting magazines and pro-gun organizations seeking subscriptions/memberships.–
47th,
I had the same experience with a fishing license. I am also curious to see if anyone answers your question.
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:11 pm
The State Police don’t release FOID card data. That’s what the FOIA fight is about. You may have filled out something else. Perhaps bought a gun or something or joined a certain group.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:14 pm
Rich, here’s one, for starters….
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2500418/posts
Comment by howie Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:15 pm
Thanks Rich. It was probably DNR then.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:16 pm
I said ten. Gimme ten. If you can’t at least do that, then forget about it.
You could easily name ten Germans who wanted to get rid of the Jews back in the 20s, so how about it? Ten Illinoisans. That’s all I’m asking for.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:16 pm
But does IDNR realease data? That would’ve been the source for the fishing related marketing I received.
If they do gun owners who are also sportsmen would have already been exposed.
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:18 pm
And now you’re worried that being a fisherman is endangering you somehow?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:19 pm
I miss the days when we accused our opponents of being commies when we ran out of rational arguments against them. It somehow seemed more civilized.
Comment by Pat Robertson Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:20 pm
Todd & Mr. Boch–Keep talking and posting. You’re demonstrating exactly why concealed carry is so frightening and who shouldn’t be granted “permission”. Sheesh, I can’t imagine trying to have this conversation w/ either of you and wondering whether you’ve got a Magnum in your back pocket! Talk about your 2nd Amendment trampling on my 1st Amendment…
Comment by D.P. Gumby Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:20 pm
I fully support GSL and JPFO. Great organizations. I wouldn’t personally equate the FOID/FOIA thing to the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germny, but I don’t think it is out of bounds and certainly doesn’t give me cause to question their sanity. Those made afraid should change their underwear and move on.
My take on such a privacy invasion is that it will likely be used in a discriminatory fashion. Apply for a job and not be considered because your name was published as a FOID card holder. Have your kid ostracized or denied entry to day care or Montessori school.
Comment by David Lawson aka Federal Farmer Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:28 pm
there is at least one national figure who is Jewish and very active in the gun rights movement.
can Todd please give sources for his figures on cost and revenue for State Police re gun related matters. I was under the impression that FOID cards were a big money loser so I’m wondering about other costs and revenues.
Comment by amalia Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:30 pm
Aren’t there two different issues here? One is whether the *CURRENT FOIA LAW* requires that the names of FOID cardholders are released. That is the question - and the only question - that the AG was opining on. The separate question is whether the names of FOID cardholders should or should not have their names exempted in general. The AG may or may not think that these names *should* be excluded under an ideal FOIA law; what her opinion said was that the current FOIA law required that they be released.
Comment by Katiedid Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:30 pm
D. P….
Are you really worried that someone you may disagree with, and whom may be a CCW permit holder, might resort to violence over a discussion? I hope, if you ever go out of state, that you refrain from talking politics. Talk about being paranoid…
Comment by howie Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:30 pm
Sometimes it takes extreme arguments to get people stirred up enough to discuss some topics. Ultimately it isn’t the law abiding citizens that are the problem. If you have been outside the states of Illinois or Wisconsin you have more than likely ate in a restaurant or pumped gas near someone legally carrying a concealed weapon.
While the question of whether concealed carry reduces crime it has been proven that there wasn’t a sudden spike in firearms crimes committed by all of the people legally carrying firearms for personal protection.
Comment by Kevin Highland Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:31 pm
With respect to the mental health records and RTC, this quote by IL State Sen. Dan Kowtowski reeks:
“The last thing we want to see happen is for someone with a mental health history to gain access, lawful access to a loaded, concealed gun,” said State Sen. Dan Kotowski (D-Park Ridge).
What exactly does “access to a loaded, concealed gun” mean? How does RTC contribute to this problem. Oh, the part “lawful access” qualifier. Now explain how “lawful access” to a gun hidden in your pants is any different from “unlawful access”?
From: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/04/21/opposition-mounts-to-illinois-concealed-carry/
Comment by David Lawson aka Federal Farmer Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:34 pm
===Are you really worried that someone you may disagree with, and whom may be a CCW permit holder, might resort to violence over a discussion?===
Only the crazy ones.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:35 pm
==And now you’re worried that being a fisherman is endangering you somehow? ==
Quite the opposite Rich.
I am pointing out that the outrage over AG Madigan’s FOIA decision is ridiculous. If DNR (not ISP) releases names and addresses in FOIA requests (suggested by me and 47th receiving mail from sportsmen/fishing advertisers after getting licenses), than tens of thousands of gun-owners already have their information exposed to the public.
Pro-guns advocates argued after Madigan’s FOIA decision that, the bad guys will use this information to steal guns from those homes, etc. If many (not all) gun-owners names and addresses are already available through DNR, than where was the outrage previously? And did we see any cases of the bad guys using this information to their benefit?
I don’t know what IDNR’s policy is, but that is why I asked.
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:37 pm
I think we can agree nobody wants “crazies” to be in possession of guns. Why, now, all of a sudden, are the state police saying they can’t keep up? If FOID is the problem then fix FOID. The anti-CCW crowd is running out of ammo, no pun intended.
Comment by howie Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:40 pm
I don’t think it’s fair to throw Todd in with Boch.
Boch needs to brush up on his German and American history a little bit. His analogy doesn’t pass any reasonable scrutiny.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:41 pm
So now I have to worry about those carrying concealed fishing poles? Sheesh!
Comment by A Citizen Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:42 pm
For some reason, I can’t get this Kinks song out of my head.
“Silly boy you got so much to live for
So much to aim for, so much to try for
You’re blowing it all with paranoia
You’re so insecure you self-destroyer”
Maybe for tomorrow’s send-off video?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:43 pm
Frankly, Howie, a guy who thinks that people who oppose him politically actually want to exterminate him physically and now wants to carry a concealed weapon certainly gives one pause. I’m mainly an agnostic on this issue, although I haven’t seen any real problems in states with reasonable CC regs (Arizona, where it’s legal to carry without any training, would be a different story). But if these are their poster children, then count me out.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:43 pm
===Maybe for tomorrow’s send-off video? ===
Tomorrow is a holiday. Today is gonna be it for awhile.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:45 pm
At $10/10 years, I can believe FOID loses money. Todd’s revenue stream would be from RTC. Those will be $100/5 years with renewal being $50/5 years. The 325,000 figure comes from ISP estimates. Personally I think that is high for starters, but will grow beyond that figure. States typically see 2% to 5% of population.
Comment by David Lawson aka Federal Farmer Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:45 pm
So, Rich, you disagree with the rhetoric. I would say there’s plenty of that coming from the left regarding this issue. Maybe you dislike the way he framed the issue, but I wholeheartedly agree the “slippery slope” argument has merit. Everything starts somewhere.
Comment by howie Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:48 pm
If you wanna call that crud “rhetoric,” then, I suppose. I prefer to call it dangerously delusional paranoia, but that’s just me. And that’s a pretty darned long slope, if you ask me. First they release names of FOID card holders and then we exterminate all of them! Yeah. OK. That sounds so very plausible.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:52 pm
“…but I wholeheartedly agree the “slippery slope” argument has merit. Everything starts somewhere. –
Howie, yes, everything starts somewhere. For example, the German Nazi Party started as a violent paramilitary organization founded on the principle of Aryan supremacy and a belief that Jews as a class were responsible for the country’s defeat in WWI and the post-war economic collapse.
I’m thinking that Lisa Madigan’s requested FOIA opinion doesn’t match up too well.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 12:57 pm
Here’s the problem with Slippery Slope. You don’t like A, so you say that A “could” lead to B, which could lead to C, all the way to Z. The argument is only valid AFTER you’ve proved a valid and reasonable progression of all the intermediate steps. Instead people throw it out there as a shield when they know that outright stating “Z” makes you sound like a nutter.
By claiming it has merit, you’re telling me you’re prepared to argue the likelihood of the Illinois State Police rounding up a group of citizens and putting them to death because they own a firearm.
Ok, go on…
Comment by Learning the Ropes Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:08 pm
===Bob Meier, interim executive director, who splits time between Chicago and DeKalb, said he’s Lutheran ===
I don’t think we should trust anybody named Bob Meier or Myers. I recently saw lobbyist Myers with a mixed drink in his hand. What’s that about?
Comment by Been There Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:10 pm
===I recently saw lobbyist Myers with a mixed drink in his hand. What’s that about? ===
When you work for the Beer Distributors, you quickly find out that drinking beer means that some influential member is gonna be upsst that you’re not drinking his beer.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:16 pm
A study on the gaps in the system that allow individuals with mental health issues to access guns.
http://content.thirdway.org/publications/69/Third_Way_Report_-_Missing_Records_-_Holes_in_the_Background_Check_System_-_How_They_Allow_Illegal_Buyers_to_Get_Guns.pdf
Comment by Seriously??? Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:16 pm
===means that some influential member is gonna be upsst that you’re not drinking his beer.===
Thats why I don’t own a horse
Comment by Been There Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:28 pm
Can someone help me here, I was not an English major. Is it “Guns Save Life” or “Guns Save Lives.”
Everytime I drive to Champaign is bugs the crap out of me. Reading it allowed, it just doesn’t make sense.
Thanks!
Comment by Anon Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:29 pm
can Todd please give sources for his figures on cost and revenue for State Police re gun related matters. I was under the impression that FOID cards were a big money loser so I’m wondering about other costs and revenues.
sure can. State police cited 325,000 as their projections in committee. The bill has $75 going to state police. $40 - $450 of that would be cost to run background checks based upon finger prints. The FBI charges about $19 currently.
that nets us $30 x 325,000 = $9,750,000.
Take the 325,000 and average it out over renewals and you get 65,000 per year. times a $50 renewal rate for $3,250,000 annually, if they just stay the same.
florida has about the same population and has 794,027 CCW licenses currently. so that is more than double Illinois projections with the same population. And we have the third largest city here.
So based upon the contents of the draft bill infront of me, and the projections of the state police, with some simple math, that is how I arrived at the numbers.
It is possible that they could go a bit lower or a LOT higher. If we hit the average of 4% of general pop, then we are at 475,000 licenses or $15 mill to the state police NET.
if you hired 10 people, and each of then cost $100,000 for the total package, benies, pension, wages, that’s still only $1 mill. I think the true cost will be about $65,000 - $75,000 per person but i don’t want to low ball costs.
No matter how you look at it, RTC/CC is a good revenue stream for the State Police. it will build them the system they need and be a benefit all the way around.
Comment by Todd Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:31 pm
===it just doesn’t make sense.===
It does if you think about a not so subtle connection to the pro-life groups. Then again, GunsSaveLives.com appears to be taken, but only by a place-holder.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:31 pm
Deleted Skeeter, that was one of the most bogus stories of the year. The entry was a typo and the columnist never called Todd. Drop it.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:41 pm
I have started to follow this blog for the same reasons I read the paper, watch the news and otherwise try to be aware of the world around me. Like watching Fox News I am not against paying attention to ideas I may not go along with. I have picked up Mr Boch’s little pamplet a few times out eating. While I feel this recent thing is out of wack it is in line with his outlook on the world. Most of the Gun News stuff is kind of preaching to the choir. Fox, the NRA, the GOP and others tend to bring to mind the lyrics of the Sting Song Da Do Do Do Da Da Da Da. ” Thier Eloquence Escapes Me, Their Logic Ties Me Up and Rapes Me”.
Comment by Bemused Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:46 pm
Anon. It also doesn’t make sense when reading it “aloud”. However, they are funny in an absurdist manner. I always think of Ionesco’s play “Rhinoceros”, which is also apt for this discussion. Of course, Mr. Boch is coming close to Franz Liebkind in the original Producers film–only from the other side of the coin.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 1:47 pm
I love those gun signs in the fields.
Always wished I could buy the next field and put up my own signs:
Hears a noise.
Grabbed my gun.
Shot in the dark.
Killed my son.
Guns Kill
Comment by piling on Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 2:06 pm
It’s Guns Save Life, not Guns Save Lives.
http://www.gunssavelife.com
Makes a big difference.
Comment by Mr. Boch Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 2:15 pm
Yeah, we know.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 2:17 pm
Every cause has outside the mainstream advocates. The cause can’t prevent it. Think the Left and Jane Fonda during Vietnam.
The Cause here in Illinois isn’t outside the mainstream. Neither is Todd. Mr Boch and his ilk are. They only get exposure because of their extremism. I would prefer we not play into their hands. I will listen to Todd’s thoughts, and the thoughts of many others on here, and consider them. I am not at all interested in what Mr Boch thinks, much less in responding to him.
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 2:42 pm
The mental health reporting issue is missing critical infromation. Is there any information which indicates somone with a mental illnes, who would kill somone, would act to kill only if they had a gun, but not if they had say a knife or a baseball bat?
Comment by Ghost Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 2:51 pm
Capt Fax
I know you ae having a lot of fun, but don’t forget that one of the “reporters” for Gun News is Lee Williams, the mope who poured all the slop on Bob Rita via the Illinois Policy Institute.
Comment by CircularFiring Squad Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 3:07 pm
Piling on…. Central IL farmland going for $7-12,000 an acre. Good luck with that.
Comment by Champaign Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 4:34 pm
“Yeah, we know.”
Lol Rich… me thinks he doesn’t get it.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 4:45 pm
He apparently doesn’t “get” a lot of things.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Apr 21, 11 @ 4:46 pm