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* From WLS Radio…
Daniels told WLS Radio’s The Don and Roma Show, that while Mayor Rahm Emanuel wants a casino to stop Chicagoans from gambling in Hammond, Indiana, Emanuel should have other concerns.
“What he ought to worry more about is the stampede of businesses leaving Illinois. You know your traffic gal Wendy left out one traffic hazard, you stand near the state line now you might get hit by a moving van,” Daniels said Thursday.
“We are talking and signing up businesses left and right. The gambling revenue, I mean, pays a few of our bills but you don’t build a strong state on casinos. You build it on factories and new business startups and you know, places that provide really high paying jobs,” Daniels said.
Daniels also claimed he “never raised” taxes, which is simply not true. He did raise taxes. And if our state tax rates were as high as Indiana’s we’d have a huge surplus to pay off all those back bills. Not to mention that Indiana also allows local income taxes. Listen to the whole thing…
Thoughts?
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:34 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Governor Daniels, Mayor Emanuel on line one.
Comment by Way Way Down Here Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:39 am
So, now that Blago is on the witness stand WLS needs a new commentator on Don Wade & Roma? Daniels may think he has extra time for the gig since he isn’t going to run for POTUS.
Yeah, we got problems, but we’re not Indiana.
Comment by Nearly Normal Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:42 am
What’s that in your bed, Governor Daniels?
Comment by Rod sez I'm pork Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:47 am
Yeah, well, he said he could beat Obama, too. He said it the day after he passed on the race — for family considerations, of course.
Meanwhile, an Indy TV station recently won a Peabody for blowing the lid off Mitch’s phony job creation numbers:
–WTHR was honored for “Reality Check: Where are the Jobs?” 13 Investigates’ on-going series exposing how state leaders inflated Indiana job statistics through a quasi-state agency shrouded in secrecy. “Reality check: Where are the jobs?” revealed empty cornfields and abandoned factories where the Indiana Economic Development Corporation claimed there were thousands of new jobs.–
http://www.wthr.com/story/14359193/channel-13-honored-for-investigations-into-state-job-statistics?clienttype=printable
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:50 am
At least he’s picking on someone his own size.
Here are two guys with national contacts and lots of ambition, both with White House experience under their belts. But be honest, if this was midget wrestling, wouldn’t you bet on Rahm in a cage match?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:54 am
IL has substantially higher overall (income, property, sales, auto, etc.) taxes than IN.
Comment by Mark Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:57 am
Mark,
According to Wiki, I wouldn’t call it “substantially higher.” Illinois is ranked 28th, Indiana 34th. They pay about $170 less per capita per year in taxes than we do. Plus, you’d have to live there. For me, an extra $15 bucks a month to live in Illinois is more than worth it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_tax_levels_in_the_United_States
Sorry if the truth undermines your point Mark.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:05 am
The Wiki figures are from 2007. And total tax revenue is different than tax burden.
Comment by Mark Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:11 am
and we dont have to hear Jim nabors sing back home again in indiana
Comment by foster brooks Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:11 am
I wonder if Daniels winds up with a dead Asian Carp in a newspaper?
Comment by J Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:12 am
“If our state tax rates were as high as Indiana’s we’d have a huge surplus to pay off all those back bills.” That statement assumes fiscal restraint by responsible Illinois lawmakers. I do not believe that is possible. What happened to the surplus in the late 1990’s?
Comment by For the Birds Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:15 am
Rich,
Daniels proposed a temporary 1% increase in income tax on individuals and businesses earning over $100,000. The proposal was defeated in the legislature.
In Daniel’s early years, Indiana financed its deficit spending by reallocating $760 million in revenue that belonged to local government and school districts over the course of many years. The funds were gradually and fully restored to the municipal governments using the surplus money, and the state reserve fund was grown to $1.3 billion.
Daniels pushed a tax on liquor and beverages to fund the construction of the Lucas Oil Stadium and a tax on rental cars to expand the Indiana Convention Center.
Daniels raised the sales tax from 6% to 7%, to offset the caps he placed on personal property taxes. Daniels successfully pushed to enshrine the caps in the Indiana Constitution.
Despite the economic downturn, Daniels’s spending discipline has resulted in a $500,000,000.00 surplus.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:16 am
===What happened to the surplus in the late 1990’s? ===
The tech boom ended and then the USA was attacked.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:16 am
And total tax revenue is different than tax burden.
If you look at tax burden (using 2009 numbers), IL looks better and IN looks worse.
IL has a per capita tax revenue of $2,384.10, and a per capita income of $41,411, meaning a total tax burden of 5.8%.
IN has a per capita tax revenue of $2,210.91, and a per capita income of $33,725, meaning a total tax burden of 6.6%.
So yea, the truth does kinda’ suck. And yes, I understand that this is before the recent income tax increase.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:17 am
I pay taxes in IL and IN and my IN tax bill is always higher even with all the credits and deductions that appear to be deceiving- it never appeared to be .004 more than IL. Almost every locality with the exception of Lake County charges an additional tax. Also the cost of many services is higher as compared to the same in IL which can be equated to a use tax. School fees are very high for elementary, Jr. High, and high school. When he has cut funding in education, the districts have to make it up in other ways.
The unemployment office is very close to my house and it is generally busy- many times I have seen lines out the door- in the last couple years.
I have not seen job growth in NWI with exception of service industry jobs, i.e low wage jobs- which is similar to most everywhere.
I would like Daniels to actually cite all the businesses that have stampeded in mass across the state line. Please do tell.
Comment by carbaby Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:18 am
Daniels proposed a temporary 1% increase in income tax on individuals and businesses earning over $100,000. The proposal was defeated in the legislature.
Or in other words, he didn’t cut taxes.
Daniels pushed a tax on liquor and beverages … Daniels raised the sales tax from 6% to 7%
And in other words, he raised taxes.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:18 am
Mark-
You also fail to take into account the higher median income in Illinois. Looks to be over $7k a year. And look how much further Indiana’s fell from 2006-7 to 2008-2009 than Illinois’ did.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/incpovhlth/2009/statemhi2_09.xls
Comment by chi Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:19 am
There is no stampede of businesses leaving Illinois for Indiana. Rich, you’ve mentioned it time and again on this blog how Scott Walker, Chris Christie, and Mitch Daniels are liars when it comes to these tax rate issues. The roadside Lion’s Den shop is not the kind of business I’d want in my state. I’m fine with Illinois keeping Cat, Groupon, and others.
Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:19 am
The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:22 am
These comments place Illinois Republicans in a very awkward position. It’s one thing to bash politicians in your state of the opposite party, it’s another to support a politician from another state openly trying to take jobs out.
Comment by Shore Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:23 am
I’m sick and tired of these rubes from Indiana leaching off Chicago for business, jobs, culture, etc… The question you have to ask yourself is where would you rather live, Illinois or Indiana? Not much debate there….
Comment by West Side Don Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:24 am
I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems.
Comment by Jim Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:24 am
Rahm doesn’t give one French Lick about Daniels or the State of Indiana. He has enough on his plate to worry about in the city.
Comment by Jake From Elwood Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:34 am
Sounds like the casino possibility in Illinois really stings Daniels. Lashing out against another state isn’t smart and shows a lack of leadership. That holds for us as well.
We do have our problems but we have a great state. We just need to pay a bit more attention to how we spend our money and hold our leaders more accountable.
I never did like finger pointing and I sure as heck don’t like pitting one against the others. Only losers and whiners do that!
Illinois is a great place to live and raise families, and is a great place to work and play. We also enjoy visiting our neighbors and say to them…all the best!
Comment by Justice Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:36 am
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:22 am:
“The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year.”
We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated. Additionally, if we had more revenues, the GA and the Governor would spend even more. They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:43 am
“They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise.”
Did you notice the budget they just passed?
Comment by Montrose Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:44 am
I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems.
I find it amusing/revealing to read comments that refuse to deal with the substance of what we are saying. Daniels is lying, and Indiana is hardly the great economic state that he makes it out to be, as we are all pointing out.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:45 am
We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated.
Huh? If IL had several more billions per year over the last several years, there would be no deficit.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:47 am
- Montrose - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:44 am:
“They have shown no fiscal discipline to think otherwise.”
“Did you notice the budget they just passed?”
Yes I did. The budget is balanced only if the 2.8% growth rate happens. The rate of growth was recently downgraded to 1.8%, so the revenue ultimate is unrealistic. Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan. Plus the debt service is not included. Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded. But other than that, the budget is balanced.
- dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:47 am:
We’d still be in deficit and while all of our problems would be less, they wouldn’t be eliminated.
“Huh? If IL had several more billions per year over the last several years, there would be no deficit.”
Yeah, the well-know Springfield budget discipline would have kicked in and the past few Governors and GA’s would have spent within their means.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:52 am
The rate of growth was recently downgraded to 1.8%, so the revenue ultimate is unrealistic.
How much you want to bet that IL exceeds the House revenue projection?
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:54 am
- dave - Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:45 am:
I find it amusing/revealing to read all these comments attacking Daniels when everyone knows Illinois has been in self-destruct mode for years. Defending the indefensible won’t solve our problems.
“I find it amusing/revealing to read comments that refuse to deal with the substance of what we are saying. Daniels is lying, and Indiana is hardly the great economic state that he makes it out to be, as we are all pointing out.”
If you re-read my figures, you will see that Daniel’s has increased taxes (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire), as I show within context, and that Indiana has a budget surplus.
And for you Illinois chauvinists, I’m a bettin’ that Indianians probably same the say about living in Illinois. Different living patterns do not mean they are better or worse.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:01 pm
===Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded. ===
You’re reading a different budget than I am.
Also, dave is right about the revenue growth.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:08 pm
“Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan.”
Which is dead in the water, as has been well documented on here.
Comment by Montrose Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:17 pm
Plus $431,000,000.00 has be promised to be added to the Capital Plan. Plus the debt service is not included. Plus the pension obligations remain unfunded
Wrong. Wrong. And Wrong.
The $431M was not passed. Debt service was included. And pensions have been fully funded for FY12.
But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:33 pm
“And pensions have been fully funded for FY12.”
When you say fully funded, I assume you mean for the year 2012. What about the past underfunding?
There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:36 pm
“There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan.”
Right. How to get the capital plan passed without the Senate’s $431 million add on for programs.
Comment by Montrose Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:40 pm
When you say fully funded, I assume you mean for the year 2012.
Did you miss where I said “FY12.”
There was a story on CapFax that said a special session may yet be called to address the Capital Plan.
Correct… but that $430M hasn’t been promised to anything by anybody. And if it DOES happen, they will most likely find revenue elsewhere in order to do it.
Comment by dave Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 12:40 pm
Daniels sold the Indiana tollway for billions of dollars upfront.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:08 pm
= if our state tax rates were as high as Indiana’s we’d have a huge surplus to pay off all those back bills =
Herein lies EXACTLY the disconnect the left in Illinois has with reality. Because they have proven year after year they CANNOT actually CUT spending down to the point of a balanced budget, it doesn’t matter how much revenue we ever have. They will ALWAYS spend more than the state takes in.
You can argue if you want, but we have seen it EVERY YEAR for the last ten. Even if a miracle happened (which isn’t probably going to) and we suddenly had an influx of revenue, the legislature and the governor would INCREASE spending because “…we’ve been cutting corners for so long we HAVE to start ‘investing’ in these programs again…” Blah, blah, blah…
The game has grown exasperatingly predictable.
Comment by Amuzing Myself Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:16 pm
=== Blah, blah, blah…===
You should apply that to your own comment. Did you not see this year’s budget?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 2:24 pm
Subtle plug for your website… well played
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:35 pm
Not sure I get what you’re saying.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:37 pm
- The simple fact remains that if we had the same state tax rates as Indiana, Illinois would collect several billion more in revenues every year. -
Depends on what state tax rates you are looking at.
IN State Sales Tax 7%.
IL State Sales Tax 6.25%
In both states municipalities (and Cook County) can levy an additional tax, but the max in IN is 9% and IL is 11.5%. IN doesn’t tax groceries or prescription drugs. IL taxes groceries at 1% + many municipalities levy an additional tax. I think IL taxes some prescription drugs. IN & IL both send some of the State Income Tax money back to the municipalities.
IN State Income/Witholding Tax 3.4% Individuals
IL State Income/Witholding Tax 5.0% Individuals
Some IN counties levy an income tax, the greatest being 1%.
IN State Corp Income Tax 6.5%
IL State Corp Income Tax 7.0%.
IN Property Tax - Capped at 1% Residential value, 2% Rental & Farm, 3% Business.
I assume overall IN gas taxes are lower since their price per gallon is lower.
IL has higher overall taxes than IN.
Comment by Mark Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:41 pm
Yes, but ours are not “substantially higher,” are they? So you spent all day disproving your original comment. Good work.
Any thoughts on the income disparity between IL and IN? Would you pay a couple of hundred more in taxes if you could earn a couple of thousand more in salary?
For those of you who think Indiana is the utopia you’ve longed for all these years, it’s right there. Go ahead and move.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:46 pm
Having owned all or part of both Illinois and Indiana companies, my experience is that the total tax burden for companies has usually been higher in Indiana (depending on the local community), and that there are common complaints among the business community in Indiana about Daniels’ deals to attract out of state companies, that are not available to them. I know this has been a big campaign message for Daniels, (and some Illinois politicians), but there is no evidence that his state is actually attracting more companies or growing more jobs than Illinois.
Also, I have met business owners in Wisconsin, who like to complain that they are being treated worse than Illinois companies. And of course many Illinois companies will say the opposite. Perhaps the grass is always greener.
Comment by walkinfool Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 3:51 pm
IL taxes are substantially higher than IN.
Just have to add up all the taxes.
For instance the IL Personal Property Replacement Tax (added thru constitutional amendment in 1980).
- Corporations pay a 2.5 percent tax on income.
- Partnerships, trusts, and S corporations pay a
1.5 percent tax on income.
- Public utilities pay a 0.8 percent tax on
invested capital.
So:
IL State Corp Income Tax 7.0%
+
IL Personal Property Replacement Tax 2.5%
=
9.5% Effective IL State Corp Income Tax.
That is the 4th highest state corporate income tax in the US, and the 4th highest combined national+local corporate income tax in the industrialized world.
Comment by Mark Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 6:38 pm
I might just be a 30 something but it seems like when you go to campus in Columbus, Ann Arbor, Iowa City, Madison, Bloomington, West Layfette, etc, a ton more of the recent graduates make Chicago and Illinois their new residences. Sure, taxes might be a little higher but so are the wages where you end up making more here in Illinois. Also quality of life. Chicago is almost an international city. Indy is nicknamed Nap town.
Listen, if you want to move to Racine or East Chicago, nobody is stopping you.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:04 pm
hello utopia GARY
Comment by foster brooks Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:23 pm
Mitch Daniels: “What he ought to worry more about is the stampede of businesses leaving Illinois.”
Don’t worry Mitch, maybe the businesses will leave us for another state — but maybe after a few years with another, they’ll come back to Illinois.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:28 pm
Random question: what did Mitch and Indiana do with all the money they got from selling off their toll road adjacent to the Skyway? Have they spent most of that money already too?
Comment by hisgirlfriday Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 7:51 pm
hisgirlfriday,
They used the Tollway revenues to pay down the budget hole and debt left from previous governor.
Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 9:04 pm
=Chicago is almost an international city.=
Great Chicago’s becoming the new Danzig. Will they have their own currency soon, too?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:23 pm
“Will they have their own currency soon, too?”
I’ve got some Rubles sitting in a tin can that a friend brought back once from the Soviet Union. I was going to throw them in the trash, but now, maybe I’ll hang onto them just in case some Chicago beerkeeper wants to trade them for Vodka some day.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 10:40 pm
Rich,
I know it is late, but I just wanted to clarify my comment was directed towards Mighty Me’s not so subtle advertising of his website @ 3:33. I guess the riff-raff and spam artists come along with the recent spike in visitors to Capfax.
Sorry for any confusion.
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Thursday, Jun 2, 11 @ 11:49 pm