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* As we discussed yesterday, there’s some dispute over whether Sen. Mike Jacobs punched Sen. Kyle McCarter with his fist or whether it was more of a poke or an open-handed whack during a Senate floor scuffle. Whatever the case, the matter has been referred to the state’s attorney’s office…
‘’The Capital police report will be fowarded to the Sangamon County States Attorney’s office for determination on filing charges. It could be as early as tommorow. It could be next week'’, said Henry Haupt, spokesperson for the Secretary of States Office. ‘’The investigator is being thorough and complete.'’
Sen. Kyle McCarter says he is pursuing charges against Jacobs, who he says confronted him after he called out the East Moline Senator for sponsoring a bill allowing utility companies to raise their rates without approval from the Illinois Commerce Commission.
* The possible consequences…
Under state law, assaulting a state employee in a public place could be charged as a Class A misdemeanor, which is punishable by under one year in jail or up to two years probation.
Threatening a public official is a Class 3 felony, punishable by two to five years in prison or up to 21/2 years probation.
* The Question: Should Sen. McCarter pursue charges against Sen. Mike Jacobs? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:02 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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They both should be spanked and denied playground use for a week. Time to grow up and take care of business.
Comment by Chuck Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:04 am
I’m sure things get heated of the floor, but come on…press charges. Stop being soooo sensitive. Time out chair for both!!!
Comment by gallerywalker Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:07 am
Dear God no. It is time to let it go. His point is made.
I am with Chuck. Time to act like adults. I don’t think that is too much to expect, is it?
Comment by Montrose Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:07 am
No. They were both acting like kids.
If they can’t act like reasonable adults, maybe they could revert to a historical solution: nominate seconds and have their seconds schedule a face-off in the middle of Spring Street. (I hope they don’t take this tongue-in-cheek suggestion seriously … that would make about as much sense as the rest of it.)
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:09 am
I agree with Chuck- I don’t agree with what Jacobs did but it’s time for McCarter to be the bigger man and let this go… they should be focusing on the budget or the problems at hand not their stupid playground BS
Comment by anon Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:15 am
He can do what he wants, but for his own reputation’s sake I’d advise him not to.
It just doesn’t look good to go running to the coppers for a poke in the chest from a 50-year-old man.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:16 am
This is what happens when grown adults start acting like children, and there’s no one there to straighten them out. If neither of these two guys is going to grow up, there has to be someone to step up and make these two, for lack of a better term, kiss and make up.
Beer summit, fishing trip, or whatever. This obviously isn’t a situation where Sen. McCarter (my state senator) suffered bodily harm or could be scared for his safety. A debate got heated, one guy felt it got personal and lost his temper. In the normal, non-partisan world, the guy who lost his temper apologizes for losing his temper and the guy apologizes for crossing a sensitive line. Lapse of communication and decorum acknowledged, handshakes, and we all go about our way.
Is there no such thing as “guy code” anymore?
Comment by Served Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:20 am
Come, come,
Fighting is as ingrained in American Politics as is lying. It is just that we don’t see as much anymore.
Comment by Old Hickory Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:21 am
Yes, I think charges should be pursued. This isn’t Taiwan. If any other “State worker” did this in their workplace, they’d be toast. I’m tired of our legislators thinking they’re something special and that they don’t have to follow the law. Jail time? No. Probation? Maybe. A fine? probably . Grow up? Most definitely, but I wouldn’t count on it.
Comment by Jechislo Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:21 am
Yes, if he was punched Jacobs should be charged. He is not above the law. If I go out and punch someone today, you know where I would be this afternoon, in jail. Mr. Jacobs has not even apologized and acts like it is a joke. Two other senators witnessed him throw the punch (Bivins and LaHood) and have stated the same. Jacobs should lose his seat at the very minimum. If not, we can expect to see a whole lot more of this behavior going on.
Comment by nobody's above the law Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:27 am
For what its worth I second “Served”. How about a little respect for the institution.
Comment by What's in a name? Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:27 am
Yes. Absolutely. And the State’s Attorney should prosecute. An assault and battery was committed. Maybe he wasn’t hurt; but where do you draw the line? These people should be conducting themselves as role models. Maybe they don’t; but they should.
Comment by Logic not emotion Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:31 am
Time for McCarter to put on his big boy pants and move on. Just seek an internal sanction or whatever if he must.
If I’m not mistaken I believe the current chairman of the IL GOP also got in trouble years ago for physically attacking an incumbent government official during a campaign. And in that case it was a state’s attorney who was physically attacked. So talking about the county’s top law enforcement official. (And of course this is exactly why the IL GOP is being uncharacteristically silent on this drama. Were it not for the chairman’s own past, you know there would have been another one of those silly petition drives about this from the state gop. Looks like even the state gop’s shamelessness knows some bounds.)
But I don’t think you’ll ever see McCarter complaining about anyone with an R by his or her name. Double standards seem fine.
Comment by just sayin' Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:31 am
Also, for what it’s worth, my fourth grade teacher used to poke me in the chest, hard, when I was in trouble. I didn’t press charges, and I was 10 years old.
Comment by Served Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:34 am
If we let these assaults continue, every law maker will be afraid to speak up. What will happen next, if you vote against my bill? Assaults will occur daily only the toughest will survive. If there is a problem lawmakers need to be able to speak out about it, and not fear reprisals. What will happen next, be challenged to a dual on the capital grounds. If a private citizen had assaulted a lawmaker he would been charged. Is there an exemption for lawmakers, do as say not as I do!
Comment by Bob Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:36 am
–Also, for what it’s worth, my fourth grade teacher used to poke me in the chest, hard, when I was in trouble. I didn’t press charges, and I was 10 years old.–
A lot of nuns back in the day would be doing time for assault with a deadly weapon the way they used to wield those rulers, lol.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:37 am
Jacobs is and always has been a bully. He lost his cool and threw a punch. If he did it in any other venue other than the floor of the Senate this wouldn’t be a question; he’d be hauled in and charged. Frankly I’m confused by all the macho posters who say this is just boys being boys. If, in your workplace, a co-worker walked up to your desk, got in your face, and then punched you, would you walk away?
Comment by National League Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:37 am
If one of my employees whacked another employee in the chest in anger, I’d be terminating him. I’d like to think that our elected legislators can be held to that standard.
Comment by Aldyth Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:40 am
While we’re at it we should file charges against all the GOP lawmakers in Springfield for taking government pay and providing no benefit in return.
Comment by just sayin' Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:40 am
Can someone check and see if Sen. Jacobs has even called McCarter to apologize or not? Can’t the Senate centure Jacobs or something? If you look at Jacobs on the TV immediately after he was smug and arrogant and even further insulted McCarter. In my opinion, this guy will get what he deserves. Bivins said he heard a “thud” when Jacobs punched him and he was knocked back (on quad city TV). That doesn’t sound like a simple “poke” to me. Let’s let law enforcement do its job and get to the bottom of this. Jacobs should swallow his pride and apologize for his actions that are not becomming of a statesman.
Comment by Apology? Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:43 am
Someone here yesterday (sorry, I forgot who and don’t want to go back to look it up) said it very well yesterday: by going to the State’s Attorney, McCarter is letting Cullerton off the hook. Dumb play.
He should force the Senate leadership to publicly discipline Jacobs and put the political heat on them to get their thuggish members under control. That way he can keep the moral high ground if and when little or no action is taken by Cullerton.
Can’t anyone in the IL GOP play this game?
I mostly stayed out of this yesterday, but for what it’s worth, Jacobs was way out of line, and clearly wrong in his behavior. But since then, McCarter hasn’t exactly distinguished himself as a leader either. Still and all, it’s a minor dust-up and goes forever into the folklore of the General Assembly.
For that I’m grateful.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:43 am
I think McCarter should have gone through the Sargent at Arms when asked if wanted the matter pursued.
Comment by Lil Enchilada Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:46 am
No- Should of hit back
Comment by x ace Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:47 am
Physical assault in the workplace (or anywhere for that matter) is not to be tolerated. If there is a credible allegation, it should be investigated, and should be prosecuted if appropriate. And the Senate should investigate and censure, if the allegations are true.
Comment by jake Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:47 am
For those of us in that field of law, a safe work place environment, even from attacks from co-employes, is a must. From what I am reading, Jacobs, who seems to be a repeat offender of sorts, who I don’t know, needs some serious anger management counseling and needs to understand not to put his hands on anyone in anger. The lack of contriteness on his part or owning up to his punch is troubling. An angry outburst is one thing. An angry outburst coupled with violence or threats of violence is another.
Is it worthy of a look by the local state’s attorney? I’m sure they have more serious cases to worry about. However, if Jacobs refuses to get himself some help, then perhaps dealing with the state’s attorney would be the wake up call he needs.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:48 am
Does anyone else think that it’s odd that the punishment for threatening a public employee is more severe than for assaulting them?
Comment by GoldCoastConservative Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:53 am
Of course Jacobs should be charged. He needs to realize he is not above the law. The charges will be pleaded and he may get a small slap on the wrist, but at least he will think twice before going too far the next time.
Comment by Just a Citizen Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:55 am
Wait a minute. There’s a venue issue here.
Since the action at issue took place in session — might the Senate’s own rules be controlling?
Unfortunately, the GA’s website has taken down the rules (at least for the moment.) http://www.ilga.gov/senate/rules.asp
Comment by Dooley Dudright Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:55 am
I’ve seen fights at work several times with different employers. Each time HR and direct supervisors got involved pretty quickly. Usually at least one of the people involved no longer had a job or was gone for some extended leave. What’s different here? I would think Senate leadership would be having a sit down with both of them with some clear outcomes.
Comment by zatoichi Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:56 am
While I agree that no one in the work place should fear physical intimidation if they voice their opinion - even more so in a governmental body that is founded on the basic premise that you speak for those you represent - I think this makes McCarter look like a puss. Whether that is right or wrong doesn’t really matter - unfortunately for McCarter its the public’s current perception. Just look at the comments in the newspapers. This issue has gone from discussing the incident and how shocking and shameful it was for one member to assault another member - to a “he said he said”. Was his fist clenched? Or was it an open hand?
If McCarter would have taken the high road Jacobs would have looked like the idiot he was in that instance - and everyone is an idiot at some point in life, one action does not define you as the man you are - unless you are a politician.
For this reason McCarter should have just asked for an apology and tossed it to the President to fix. There would have been no down side for Kyle and nothing but for Jacobs.
Comment by Moderate REpub Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:00 am
Anger management classes for Jacobs along with a quick refresher course in ‘how not to bait or be prepared for the catch’ for McCarter would be my vote.
Jacobs should not use phyiscal contact…there is absoultely no excuse or justification in doing so. On the other hand, listening to some of the floor debates this session (both floors) there are an uncalled for number of deliberate button pushing jabs that is coming unbecoming of our elected officials. Pointing out ‘info’ deemed pertinent to an issue is one thing, but the sneers and slams being made in the manner that I’ve heard them being made of late has gone overboard. I believe there is a way to present one’s views and all sides being represented and put out for knowledge without resorting to verbal punches and direct insults.
Comment by Cindy Lou Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:05 am
Yes. This is not “normal” behavior in the Senate or any workplace. And, since Jacobs seemed to think it was normal, this is a good way to show him it is neither normal nor acceptable.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:07 am
What about the charge that led to this confrontation? McCarter is obviously in a conflict of interest (and maybe a whole lot more) by sponsoring a bill his father was lobbying for.
Comment by tberry Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:11 am
Now that the process is started,playing it out is the way to either find it frivolous or significant.If stopped,there’ll just be question and supposition.
Comment by bob Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:12 am
- Lil Enchilada - Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 10:46 am:
I think McCarter should have gone through the Sargent at Arms when asked if wanted the matter pursued.
You know the Sergeant at arms doesn’t have police powers - and he is not allowed to carry a weapon (look it up in statute and Senate rules - it doesn’t preclude it but it certainly doesn’t grant it - which is what would be needed to have police powers)- this is clearly the SOS (CAP police) jurisdiction. As it was when the shooting took place, and as it is when a protestor is detained/ and or arrested. When a protestor is escorted from the gallery its the SOS that are called.
Joe is former police - but he doesn’t have police powers.
And I am not so sure that Joe asked McCarter if he he wanted to file charges. I think Joe asked McCarter if he was “ok” but I am not so sure he asked him clearly if he wanted to “press charges” or “file a report”. I am pretty sure neither of those phrases were actually used. Maybe Rich could follow up with Joe to find out exactly what was said. I was under the impression there were huge questions that day as to who had jurisdiction. I think this is the real part of the story that is missing. With all of the trouble and increases in security in the last several years I don’t know how there could be jurisdictional issues at this point. I think that looks bad on the Senate chamber that this is not clearly defined.
Comment by Moderate REpub Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:12 am
No.
1. It’s bad politics for McCarter.
2. It’s a waste of Sangamon County State’s Attorney time and resources.
3. He didn’t pursue the matter with the Senate sergeant at arms.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:14 am
No, but Jacobs needs to act like an adult, step up and put this behind all of us.
Specifically, Jacobs needs to privately apologize to McCarter for assaulting him verbally and physically, apologize to the Senate for his extraordinary breach of decorum, and apologize to his constituents and the larger public for letting them down by behaving as a thug.
With that, McCarter should accept the apology, drop the charges, and move on.
Comment by Coach Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:17 am
Yes. Physical thuggery has no place in the State House. Period.
Comment by Amuzing Myself Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:21 am
There are two violations in question here:
1. McCarter hurls personal insults at Jacobs in violation of Senate rules.
2. Jacobs confronts McCarter and pushes/shoves/punches/whatever McCarter in violation of Senate rules.
One thing is certain, we have two bullies here, a verbal bully - McCarter and a physical bully - Jacobs. Both behaviors are unacceptable and in violation of Senate rules of decorum. Censure them both, but criminal prosecution? No way.
Comment by anon sequitor Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:22 am
Bad politics aside, if any state worker had done this on the job to another state worker, there would be consequences. It is doubtful that charges would ever be made in such matters , someone either gets fired or loses pay. Since Jacobs can’t be fired lets give him an unpaid 2 week vacation.
Comment by Fed-Up Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:24 am
I voted no. From what I was told by a friend who saw it, it was more of a jab or poke than a punch. That said, physical altercations have no place in civil society, especially at work, and even more so on the Senate floor. However, the last days of any session in the G.A. are probably among the most stressful places to be of any job that doesn’t involve directly risking your life. Careers are being made, and destroyed. In my time there I saw staffers come to near blows, lobbyists come to near blows, and yes, even members. More so, I saw more threats made and screaming than I could even begin to recount. It’s a pressure cooker, and even the calmest, most reasonable person can lose themselves in the moment.
What usually happens is when things calm down, the parties involved realize how stupid they were acting, everyone apologizes and all goes back to normal.
In this case, if McCarter were injured, then, yes, charges are appropriate. But, he wasn’t, so I think both of them should realize the whole thing was out of line, they should apologize to each other and to the body and move on.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:33 am
To Moderate Repub
From Rich Miller at Capital Faz yesterday:
Hmm. An interesting statement from Joe Dominguez, Senate Sergeant-At-Arms…
The Senate Sergeant-At-Arms is charged with preserving the rules of decorum and orderly behavior in the Senate chamber. While incidents of disorderly conduct are rare, they are not tolerated on the Senate floor.
On Tuesday, immediately following the alleged confrontation between Senator Mike Jacobs and Senator Kyle McCarter, I approached Senator McCarter to inquire whether he wished to file a complaint. Senator McCarter responded that he did not. [Emphasis added]
Joe is top notch, by the way.
Comment by Lil Enchilada Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:38 am
Yes. It is against the law to use your fists or your finger or your open hand to strike someone. It’s assault. File charges against the criminal.
Comment by heet101 Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:43 am
mccarter should grow a pair. he should go tell his mommy that someone hurt him on the playground.
Comment by MC Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:45 am
The answer is yes. We hope he will learn from it.
Comment by Moliner Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:01 pm
I voted no.
Generally speaking, I’d agree that workplace violence of any sort ought not to be tolerated and there should be immediate reprisals to the appropriate aggressor.
That said, this isn’t a typical workplace, and the only overarching employer is the “people,” though for each Senator those people are different.
Rare is the job where it is acceptable, even encouraged, to verbally instigate confrontations, make personal attacks on the record (happens more than you think, just ask anyone who’s dealt with Rep. Mulligan recently), and generally provoke others to the point of conflagration.
To the point - McCarter looks bad politically for doing this, so I’d advise against it. Jacobs could probably use some anger management counseling. And, if there’s a way to handle it institutionally via censure or some other avenue (not sure there is), then that should be done.
FWIW, I witnessed the altercation Rich broke up Tuesday night - that sure as heck seemed a lot more heated than what I’ve heard about the McCarter/Jacobs fracas. And those two guys are already friends again, or will be soon.
Comment by Thoughts... Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:08 pm
He can pursue charges or not pursue charges as he wishes. But, if the State’s Attorney is going to be filing charges against everyone who engages in this level of conduct we need to raise taxes to hire more staff for the judicial system.
Comment by Bigtwich Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:17 pm
the General Assembly as a whole should try to not hamper the real world as much as possible. They should try to keep their petty squabbles under their dome as much as possible. a State ’s Attorney has real work . Now that session is over they should to try to leave us alone as much as possible. Take a vacation
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:26 pm
“Should Sen. McCarter pursue charges against Sen. Mike Jacobs?”
McCarter should offer to drop the charges provided Jacobs attends a court-sponsored anger management class. That would allow McCarter to seize the moral high ground while further humbling Jacobs.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:30 pm
The Weasel, formally known as Sen. McCarter is losing all credibility. If the SGOP wanted Sen. Jacobs to look bad, they should have made their big stink in the Senate Chamber, handling all business, publically, but internally and embarrassing Jacobs and forcing jacobs to apologize to the entire body, to McCarter and for the record.
However, now McCarter looks weak, feeble, and just like a trial lawyer’s dream. “Make no statement until we can see what we can get. In the meantime, put on a neck brace, go see ‘my’ doctor, and don’t do anything physical that people may see.”
At some point, Jacobs will be able to say, “I guess some men handle things like men, and some people get personal injury lawyers”
Jacobs did a wrong, but McCarter is just a fool.
Dope!
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:32 pm
I agree with an anger management program.
Comment by Truth Seeker Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:34 pm
I voted yes. However, I would prefer that the Senate leadership handle this internally. If Sen. Jacobs apologizes and takes an anger management course, Sen. McCarter should drop the charges.
Comment by Going nuclear Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:36 pm
If Jacobs would have just apologized all of this right away, the incident would have gone away quickly. Instead he said that McCarter was full of sh?! to a TV reporter. Now it is all over the news and the little known fact among “regular folks” that his father is a lobbyist for Com Ed is well known. I agree with other posters about the possibility of an ethics violation with that.
Naively I thought that the IL Senate was a gentlemen’s chamber. Not so. I vote yes.
Comment by A Regular Voter Speaks Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:45 pm
I didn’t vote in the poll but if the “charge” was for stupidity, I would have voted yes. But since the charge will be for assault I believe that is over the top. And just plain wimpy.
Comment by Been There Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:45 pm
Don’t press charges, but formally censure Jacobs, order him to apologize to the senator and the body at large in a resolution, and require him to go get some anger management counseling in the meanwhile. And maybe buy a book on how to win friends and influence people. If any of his constituents acted that way at their place of work, they’d likely be sacked, or at least forced to apologize.
Comment by Newsclown Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:54 pm
Hard ball at the state house. Someone seems a little too sensitive to me, if they can’t take the critism about their bill, without hitting someone. This is what makes Illinois government such a laughing stock everywhere.
Comment by Downstate Dem Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:55 pm
The question was “should Sen. McCarter file charges”, not is Jacobs guilty of something. The answer is no. Point made. Pursuing it further not in his political or personal interests.
Comment by vibes Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:56 pm
The Jacobs-McCarter kerfuffle ain’t nuthin’ compared to an 1856 incident in which U.S. Senator Charles Sumner was caned to within an inch of his life by Representative Preston Brooks.
“Brooks survived an expulsion vote in the House but resigned his seat, claiming both that he ‘meant no disrespect to the Senate of the United States’ by attacking Sumner and that he did not intend to kill him, for he would have used a different weapon if he had.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks
Comment by Dooley Dudright Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:57 pm
I voted yes. Here in the ‘ville we had a Councilman, Richard Furstenau, backhand a cop. He went on to sue the city claiming his rights were violated. Cost the city over a million bucks defending people that did nothing wrong other than tell the man he was way out of line. Nip this type of behavior in the bud before it becomes more common.
Now if you want to increase state revenue stream by presenting PPV cage matches between certain elected officials I’m sure we’d be out of this mess in no time. Who would the first bout be between?!
Comment by in the 'ville Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 12:57 pm
It is important to remember, that the Illinois Senate isn’t a chamber like the US Senate. It is not the deliberative body we think it is, because it is just political boundaries, basically the same as the representatives. We need something different.
How about each county having one state senetor? That would change the deliberation process significantly.
Comment by Downstate Dem Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:00 pm
===I voted yes. Here in the ‘ville we had a Councilman, Richard Furstenau, backhand a cop. He went on to sue the city claiming his rights were violated. Cost the city over a million bucks defending people that did nothing wrong other than tell the man he was way out of line. Nip this type of behavior in the bud before it becomes more common.===
It cost Naperville a million bucks, it went nowhere AND you voted that McCarter SHOULD persue criminal charges????
I guess the million bucks for nothing is WORTH it?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:01 pm
O.W.,
Your suggestion that the matter be handled in the Senate makes sense except neither McCarter nor his party have a voice there. Don’t you have to control the gavel to embarrass and force a member to apologize?
Comment by Easily Entertained Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:02 pm
I voted no. I would be very cautious in allowing anyone to bring charges in some forum outside the legislature for any action done by a legislator on the floor of the house or senate that isn’t life threatening or otherwise extremely serious in some manner I haven’t thought through. The legislature enforcing its own rules of behavior and decorum would be one thing, but allowing someone to threaten to call the cops is another. It’s the same notion as giving legislators immunity from arrest for any reason during session and from libel or slander charges for what they say on the floor.
Comment by Pat Robertson Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:06 pm
EE,
Do you think that the Sgt. at Arms asking if McCarter wanted to persue it further has ZERO relevence, and further, making a stink that a memeber of the majority party is not allowing an investigation of a physical altercation that most saw wouldn’t have legs?
So the new rule is, if someone from the minorty party gets “acosted” by a member of the majority party, that minority party agreeged member must dismiss the Sgt. at Arms and file criminal charges for the Sangamon county State’s Attorney to review.
Goodnes Gracious!!!
If you think Cullerton wouldn’t want this to pass as quickly as possible internally, and if that means Jacobs faces embarrassment, that would be fine and they all can move on.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:08 pm
No, I’m not defending Jacobs at all, but McCarter should let the police worry about real crimes. McCarter made his point, Jacobs got some horrible (and well deserved) press. Time to move on unless he wants a years long war with a fellow Senator on his hand. (And nobody wins those wars.)
Comment by Not a Newcomer Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:11 pm
I voted yes. If McCarter feels he was assaulted, he should absolutely pursue charges. I personally think it takes away from his chance to look like the bigger person, but it’s his call.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:16 pm
I believe charges should be filed. Physical assault should not be tolerated in any workplace. Let Sen. Jacobs have his day in court. Ordinary state employees know they would be terminated for throwing a punch at a colleague.
If Jacobs is that touchy about voting for ComEd when his father takes home a paycheck from them as their lobbyist, maybe he should have voted “no”.
Will this incident be on the annual ethics test?
Comment by DuPage Dave Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:41 pm
Since Senate Democrat leaders and the Senate Democrat caucus have refused to discipline their own member with either censure or expulsion, and since Jacobs has refused to apologies, and his only recorded statement was that McCarter should apologize to him for telling the truth about a potential conflict of interest of a bill’s sponsor, McCarter should indeed ask for charges, which I hope are the Class 3 Felony ones.
Anyone who has actually worked in the private sector knows, there is a Zero Tolerance workplace rule in every single business. Owners normally will require someone to sign an acknowledgment of this fact on initial employment. Owners do this to limit their liability. I’m pretty sure this is true in the public sector, perhaps a public sector employee would care to weigh in.
So:
McCarter rightfully calls out a possible conflict of interest.
Jacobs cannot take the heat, and rushes McCarter.
In front of multiple witnesses, including a former law enforcement official, Jacobs assaults McCarter.
Not only are Senate rules broken so is the law.
Jacob demands an apology from McCarter.
Senate President Cullerton says nothing.
Senate Democrat caucus members say nothing.
McCarter presses charges since Jacobs doesn’t apologies, and the Senate Democrats take a pass.
Posters on CapFax blame the assaulted party.
I hope Jacobs spends some time in jail, and only Democrats will be at fault for not discipling one of their own.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:43 pm
Jacobs earned this one, twice. Sponsoring a bill that your dad was lobbying for raises the appearance of conflict of interest, at the very least. And hitting a colleague is both a criminal act and a firing offense in most places. With that punch, shove, or whatever it was, Jacobs gave the GOP the gift that keeps on giving.
Comment by soccermom Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:49 pm
*All typing errors a result of Mac OS 10.7 - Lion
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:50 pm
We need to send a message to Sen. Jacobs and those like him that “we the people” will not tolerate such behavior unbecoming of a statesman. If anyone of us punched somebody at work we would be in jail, end of story. He has not shown one ounce of remorse nor made any attempt to apologize for his actions. We need more courageous people like McCarter to call their fellow lawmakers out when they are entangled with conflicts of interest at risk to their personal security. If we really want government to be accountable and transparent we need more like McCarter, seriously. Who is looking out for the people? Certainly not the powers that be, nor the media who would have let this whole entanglement pass by with little to no comment on the rate hike and the conflicts between the bill sponsor, com-ed and the sponsor’s father. Courage is rare in Springfield.
Comment by make an example Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:54 pm
The Senator who you refer to as “Formal Law Enforcement” HEARD a thump. Never SAW a punch. That’s what the quotes say in my local newspapers.
If this was the “worst thing he’d ever seen” as a law enforcement official, I am wondering he worked in Mayberry with Andy Fife back in the ’50’s.
Plus I read that it wasn’t even Jacobs bill to begin with. At the last minute someone else asked him to present it. Is that normal?
Comment by Lil Enchilada Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:59 pm
- Lil Enchilada - Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 11:38 am:
To Moderate Repub
From Rich Miller at Capital Faz yesterday:
Hmm. An interesting statement from Joe Dominguez, Senate Sergeant-At-Arms…
The Senate Sergeant-At-Arms is charged with preserving the rules of decorum and orderly behavior in the Senate chamber. While incidents of disorderly conduct are rare, they are not tolerated on the Senate floor.
On Tuesday, immediately following the alleged confrontation between Senator Mike Jacobs and Senator Kyle McCarter, I approached Senator McCarter to inquire whether he wished to file a complaint. Senator McCarter responded that he did not. [Emphasis added]
Joe is top notch, by the way.
Yeah I read that LE. Its a “statement” not an interview. I was looking for an interview not a statement written for Joe by the Presidents word smiths. I am saying there is doubt by many that Joe actually said those words. My reasoning is more thank watching the incident play out that day. I am saying that there was a lot of confusion - or planned confusion - on who has jurisdiction on the floor. There wouldn’t have been any confusion if Joe would have said the words he supposedly said. The two points can’t exist together.
And as Joe’s statement says he is responsible for decorum - but it doesn’t say he has any teeth to make people comply - because he doesn’t besides asking them to leave or calm down.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 1:59 pm
Sorry the anonymous post is from me.
Comment by Moderate REpublican Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:00 pm
===*All typing errors a result of Mac OS 10.7 - Lion===
I know this is tricky for you Cinci, especially since spell check doesn’t catch it for you (which is why I’m here):
“Democrat” is a noun, “democratic” is an adjective. I realize Republicans have great difficulty with this subject, but I’d hate to have anyone think less of you due to a simple grammatical error.
Beyond grammar though, I’m fine if people think less of you for suggesting that Jacobs did anything to warrant jail time.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:03 pm
- which I hope are the Class 3 Felony ones. -
For crying out loud Cinci, it’s not like he threatened to murder McCarter, which I’m guessing is what gets you a class 3 felony. And I’ve seen extremely few commenters blaming McCarter, must be more of that “careful” reading only you can do. He punched him in the chest, deplorable yes, but jail time? I thought you were a backer of Brady’s plan to bring back the “John Wayne America”, think this is what the Duke would have in mind?
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:04 pm
This is almost too good to be true…
Jacobs touts passage of his SB 2004 on his website, legislation which “increases the penalties for assaulting process servers.” What about penalty increases for assaulting a fellow lawmaker? Can he be held to his own standard? Let’s see.
Comment by Hipocrit Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:06 pm
===Yeah I read that LE. Its a “statement” not an interview. I was looking for an interview not a statement written for Joe by the Presidents word smiths. I am saying there is doubt by many that Joe actually said those words. My reasoning is more thank watching the incident play out that day. I am saying that there was a lot of confusion - or planned confusion - on who has jurisdiction on the floor. There wouldn’t have been any confusion if Joe would have said the words he supposedly said. The two points can’t exist together.===
Are WE blaming the Sgt. at Arms for Jacobs altercation, and therefor, because the Sgt. at Arms didn’t do, or doesn’t know, his job, its ok to file charges?
Ok, now, let’s blame the Sgt. at Arms for McCarter weaseling his way through this … Pathetic!
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:09 pm
Well if the senate won’t act to keep order and discipline it’s members and we know Cullerton won’t because Jacobs is one of his guys then I think it is acceptable for him to pursue charges. Culler ton should discipline his out of control member but he won’t so the courts may need to be used.
Comment by Fed up Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:10 pm
Have I been deleted?
Comment by soccermom Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:10 pm
I, for one, understand an argument many make that public officials be held to a higher standard than average folks, STL. Presumably, you subscribe to a theory that Jacob’s behavior, his elite status, or something else inoculates him from the same requirements as the average person. Certainly if you assaulted him in anger, you’d be looking for bail money. If Jacob smacked his wife, off to jail he would rightfully go. Even little Johnny would serve some time in detention or on suspension if he pushed another on the school playground.
Fact: Jacobs assaulted McCarter.
Fact: Cullerton has done nothing.
Fact: The Senate Democrat caucus has done nothing.
Fact: Jacobs has not apologized.
I don’t envy you having to defend this obnoxious Democrat.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:16 pm
- Presumably, you subscribe to a theory that Jacob’s behavior, his elite status, or something else inoculates him from the same requirements as the average person. -
- I don’t envy you having to defend this obnoxious Democrat. -
Did you miss the part where I said McCarter should press charges? I really think you need to work on your reading.
Furthermore, I’ve been punched, and I’ve punched others. No charges were filed in any of these situations, and I unless I’m forgetting any, I think we’re all on good terms these days.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:28 pm
Under Article IV, Sec. 12 of the Illinois Constitution, except in case of treason, felony or breach of peace, members shall be privileged from arrest going to, during, and returning from sessions of the GA, and shall not be held to answer before any other tribunal for any speech or debate.
Comment by Easily Entertained Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:43 pm
I lean no, but it bothers me that a State Senator would get away with this on the Senate floor when anyone else doing this to a state employee very well might face some sort of repercussion. Then again I’m sure things have happened to lower level employees that got taken care of quietly, so maybe it isn’t really a stretch.
I fully advocate punishing him at the ballot, though.
Comment by Liandro Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:53 pm
I agree with Cindy Lou - Anger Management Class for Jacobs.
Such classes helped the Cubs’ Pitcher Carlos Zambrano.
And a joint public apology from both of them.
And my answer would be the same irregardless of political affiliation.
What Jacobs did was clearly wrong and technically it seems he can pursue charges.
I just don’t think practically that’s the best solution.
Hopefully the Democratic and Republican leaders can get together with these two and figure something out quickly and move on.
Jacobs should be on a short leash though. Another such incident is unacceptable.
Comment by Mark Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:58 pm
Every conflict between people does not require prosecution, even if someone did something wrong. There is no purpose in dragging this through the criminal justice system. It serves no purpose. This is a good example of why we have so many juveniles wrapped up in prisons and detention when other solutions would yield better results.
Comment by bored with press Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:59 pm
1) Nobody throws the first punch for the chest.
2) If Mike Jacobs HAD punched McCarter, I think the bruises would be pretty evident.
3) The fact that whatever transpired went completely unnoticed by everyone else in the chamber undermines the seriousness of the charges.
4) In trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, McCarter ends up looking like a weasel.
5) This looks even more political if a Republican State’s Attorney presses charges.
6) We are all on-notice now that Senator McCarter does not like people in his personal space.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 2:59 pm
I have read nothing about the incident supporting YDD’s version of the facts. But what the what, democrats have the gavel so I guess their version of the facts is what counts.
Interestingly, the constitutional immunity granted legislators does not protect them from prosecution for prohibited interest in contracts.
Comment by Easily Entertained Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:14 pm
No. One should act one’s age, even when others do not.
Comment by Dirt Digger Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:33 pm
The perpetrator is unrepentant, if not defiant. The victim is entitled to legal redress.
I’m a Democrat who favors holding the perp fully accountable, and to base the sentence, should he be convicted, on his lack of remorse.
Comment by reformer Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:46 pm
And almost on queue, we get this story to show why Jacobs should be charged.
Comment by Cincinnatus Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:48 pm
Sen. McCarter should be careful or Sen. Jacobs will tell his dad!!
Comment by The Steamer Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:51 pm
Yes, Cinci, you’re right. It’s exactly the same thing. Too bad we’ve ended capital punishment or you might be arguing why Jacobs should be executed for his alleged assault.
Between yesterday and today, I don’t think more words have been used to discuss so minor a topic in this blog’s history.
Cinci, you might have too much time on your hands to search for a story like that and pretend it is in anyway related to an end-of-session brouhaha in Springfield. Apples and bowling balls.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 3:58 pm
You may or not believe that he should be charged, but the “if this happened anywhere else he would be” is a bit ridiculous.
Maybe I just hang out in some tough bars, but stuff like this happens often in the real world and nobody is charged.
To the question though — no, I do not believe he should be charged. However, I believe he deserves to be censured.
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 4:07 pm
“Does anyone else think that it’s odd that the punishment for threatening a public employee is more severe than for assaulting them?”
What I find odd is that threatening a public employee is more severe than threatening a non-public employee. Why are they more valuable than me?
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 4:11 pm
“Since Senate Democrat leaders and the Senate Democrat caucus”
If Cincy is going to use a name for the other side that they don’t like (as Cincy well knows, it is called the Democratic Party), I’m sure he would mind when I say that “Teabaggers” like him are taking this incident way too seriously.
Comment by Skeeter Friday, Jun 3, 11 @ 4:20 pm