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* Howard Stutz writes a column about gaming for the Las Vegas Review-Journal. He’ll kick off our gaming expansion discussion today…
Will Illinois become the next Pennsylvania, a case study for casino expansion where revenues have grown more than 54 percent in two years?
Or will Illinois become the next Ohio, where political infighting halted casino construction and could sink the state’s gaming potential?
Good questions. He doesn’t provide answers, but they’re still good questions.
* Steve Chapman kinda contradicts himself on gaming expansion…
Is Chicago likely to reap big economic gains? Not in this lifetime. A new casino may attract more visitors and create new jobs serving drinks and dealing cards. But money lost at the blackjack table can’t be spent on other types of recreation and entertainment. Jobs that spring up in gambling-related businesses may be lost in other sectors.
Casinos have been useful in reviving depressed areas, according to the 1999 National Gambling Impact Study Commission Report. That may have little relevance to Chicago, which is not exactly a declining Rust Belt relic.
The best hope is that the city will draw players who now venture to northwest Indiana, which has made itself a local gambling destination. But any gain here would come at the expense of the people in and around Gary, if that counts for anything.
A big part of the idea behind the Chicago casino is to stop the outflow of cash across our border to Indiana. If it keeps gaming revenue local, it’s a plus. We shouldn’t worry too much about Hammond.
* This doesn’t seem like a major concern to me…
The Illinois State Fairgrounds Grandstand would have to be remodeled if Gov. Pat Quinn proceeds with legislation to install slot machines, according to the state Department of Agriculture.
“It (slots) would have to be at the track, and the only structure at the track is the Grandstand,” said Jeff Squibb, a spokesman for Agriculture.
The grandstand doesn’t have any room for slot machines now, Squibb said.
“I think it’s apparent to anyone who’s been to the facility that there would have to be modifications made,” he said.
The far end of the grandstand which houses the media room is practically empty. Also, I assume some slots would fit easily into the current betting window area.
* The Pantagraph ignores the difficult political reality of passing a gaming bill…
If the bill had just focused on the Chicago casino, airport slot machines and additional gaming positions in existing venues, it would be easier to accept. But, in typical Illinois fashion — or, more fairly, typical political fashion — it attempts to offer something for everyone in its 400-page package.
A scaled-down version might make sense, but this monstrosity is a bad bet.
They’ve tried for the past 20 years to pass this bill. It ain’t easy politics. If it was, it would’ve passed two decades ago. Wishing it was easy doesn’t make it so.
* Good point by Finke…
Of course, governors still get the next-to-last-laugh if they either outright veto or make changes to legislation. Even then, there are people around the Statehouse who think the gaming bill never would have passed if lawmakers took the threat of a Quinn veto seriously.
* The Sun-Times has a wish list for a new casino site, but it’s not sure where it should go…
We see a site that is close to the Loop but not too close, well served by public transportation, and close to struggling residential neighborhoods that need jobs — but, again, not too close. We envision conventioneers by the thousands flocking to a casino there after a full day of product shows, seminars and Power Point presentations.
* But this is a good point by the Tribune editorial board…
And recall Michael Madigan’s insistence in 2007 that if Illinois is to have more casinos, it needs a more independent and muscular Gaming Board to combat corruption and mob influence? His plan had former federal judges and prosecutors nominating board members, plus insulation against pressure from governors (see Ryan, George, and Blagojevich, Rod) and legislators. A new bill triples casino capacity and orders the board to more rapidly roll out video gambling. This hurry-up risks corruption of an Illinois industry previously scarred by two scandals. Regulators already monitor 6,800 casino workers, execs and owners.
Quinn can raise this grade with a veto or an amendatory veto of the casino bill. We’re awarding an F+ instead of an F only because this bill, unlike an earlier version, doesn’t eliminate five Gaming Board members whose careful decisions had angered a pro-gambling legislator.
One reason for Madigan’s plan is because he believed at the time that we had a criminal in the governor’s office. He was right. But this bill is certainly on the light side on oversight.
* The editors of the Galesburg Register-Mail have an interesting debate in the paper between themselves over whether to expand gaming. This is Tom Martin’s opinion…
Supply and demand should settle the issue. If people want to gamble more and, for instance, are crossing state lines to do it, then why not expand the number of casinos and add thousands of wagering machines?
Opposing gambling for moral reasons is a legitimate stance, although I think it would be hypocritical for our state leaders to cry the horrors of more gambling while running a state lottery.
I don’t think we’ll become the Las Vegas of the Midwest, as some have said. Forty-eight states allow gambling these days, so it’s not like adding five more casinos is going to make Illinois unique. It’s the lure of easy money. And it means fewer tough choices for legislators — which is the only problem I have the expansion. It prevents the state from dealing with spending issues.
The gambling expansion conflict is more about the new casinos competing with existing casinos. The Chicago Tribune reports that the Grand Victoria Casino sent $2 million per month to the city of Elgin during boom times. The city now faces losing that revenue to new casinos.
Although I believe gambling should be regulated, I don’t think the government needs to protect one city against another. Demand will determine whether there’s more of a market out there. If there’s not, the revenue will be split among more entities. It happens all the time in business. If it’s not a money maker, casinos will close. Sign the bill.
* Related…
* Chicago worries its casino will attract mob
* How gambling expansion would change the suburbs
* Foes plan to attend Arlington Hts. meeting
* Saddling horse racing with slot machines
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 6:13 am
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–Supply and demand should settle the issue.–
Supply and demand have never had anything to do with legal gambling in Illinois.
There’s always been a demand, but for the most part if was always illegal, except for a few tracks. The legal world has slowly chipped away at the illegal industry, first with the lottery, then with OTB, then casinos.
The stated goal of legal gambling in the state has been government revenues and targeted economic development. Supply and demand has nothing to do with it.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 8:03 am
Could you make the Lt. Governor a board member?
Comment by OneMan Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 8:11 am
Funny how the GOP claimed we didn’t need the income tax increase, but even after that passed, so many Republicans voted for the gambling bill that will divert billions more to the state’s coffers and away from more productive pursuits.
Comment by just sayin' Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 8:22 am
Yes, like casinos in Hammond and Gary.. Then again using that logic we should ban the booze since that isn’t a productive pursuits.
Comment by OneMan Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 8:25 am
“Yes, like casinos in Hammond and Gary..”
Guess we should copy the Indy 500 and do it on the same day because we’re a state with people so petty and with such low self esteem that we just can’t stand the idea that a relatively small number of people might travel across state lines and throw some of their own bucks away over in Hammond. Hammond? Seriously?
Let’s recreate the Wisconsin Dells too because we’re losing go-kart and Duck dollars.
Or we could concentrate on what Illinois is good at. And no I’m not sure what that is anymore.
Comment by just sayin' Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 8:51 am
==Chicago worries its casino will attract mob==
This article is beyond asinine.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:05 am
Does anyone remember when off track betting was to be the savior of the race tracks?
Worked out well didn’t it?
The problem with the attention span of the average voter is that there is never a reckoning, reconciling the grandiose promises of the proponents of a new plan with the reality after it has reached an equilibrium. They never match.
The overblown revenue predictions will never be reached. The ancillary losses (other entertainment venues) will occur and the planners will move on to the next sure thing. (That alone sounds like gambling to me…) No one is ever held accountable for the failures of these kinds of grandiose plans.
The most important thing is that the campaign contributions will be made, palms will be greased and there will be new kingpins to reckon with.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:33 am
Does anyone think the Casino won’t go anywhere other than in Block 37? A casino might be the only thing to make that project viable.
Comment by Emanuel Collective Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:39 am
==Does anyone think the Casino won’t go anywhere other than in Block 37?==
MPEA has already come out against the proposal, but I think the McCormick Place East proposal is the best one out there. Lee Bey made the case a few weeks back…
http://www.wbez.org/blog/lee-bey/2011-05-25/mccormick-place-east-casino-royale-86995
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:46 am
I know I’m neither as well informed nor as smart as the Trib guys, but does anyone know what two gaming/casino scandals they are talking about?
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:53 am
Slots at the IL State Fairgrounds? Not sure I think it’s great idea but the world should not end. Facility upgrades would create some jobs so that is a plus. Think they could use some of the profits to get some good bands in the Grandstands?
Comment by Bemused Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 9:54 am
–I know I’m neither as well informed nor as smart as the Trib guys, but does anyone know what two gaming/casino scandals they are talking about?–
I wondered the same thing. Are they going back to racetrack stock?
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 10:10 am
ws, going back that far would be a stretch, wouldn’t it. Are they talking about the Flynns? That seemed to be a case of the Board doing their job, not a scandal.
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 10:33 am
Capt Fax is spot on with the high ceiling practically vacant north end of the first floor of the grandstand…besides the highly under used press room there is is the state fair museum.
Both could be moved to better locations.
Meanwhile Ag should hire qualified vendor to rent the space and set up the slots as soon as PQ bumps his head one more time and decides to sign this bill.
Then the gaming board can start crab walking all the new action through their nightmare
1. Des Plaines will get at least 2 years of no competition. This after 14 years of dormant revenue from the Silver Eagle license.
2. Chicago might see some money about 2014
3. Who knows if there are even real investors in Danville and Rockford.
4. South suburbs could spring ahead of bidders can take a search.
5. Horse folks should get going first and if they get stalled expect to see some shut downs.
6. BTW any new estimates when the action oriented gaming board will let us plunk down our first quarter on video poker or the Lottery will enter the new century?
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 10:49 am
The danger of increasing organized crime’s revenue stream is that it will facilitate political-criminal organizations taking over suburban school districts.
If you want to see what a school district can become when local political machines take over school districts, study Proviso Township.
But the Cook County State’s Attorney, FBI and U.S. Attorney (NID) are already lackadaisical in dealing with local corruption in the suburbs. That’s the underlying problem.
And giving organized crime more of a revenue stream could make it worse.
However, I think corporations are getting pretty good at running casinos.
If organized crime is going to capture revenue, I’m more concerned about gambling machines in bars and strip clubs.
Corporations will kickback gambling money to politicians. But that’s a problem across our political system, not particularly unique to the gaming industry. For example, the kickbacks on red light cameras concern me more than corporations managing casinos.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 11:18 am
“We shouldn’t worry too much about Hammond.”
As Illinois residents, agreed. But perhaps Chicago Tribune is worried about them because Hammond is considered part of the Chicago area/Trib circulation area?
Comment by Robert Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 11:57 am
Minor point but I thought the purpose of the Chicago casino was to get out of state tourists money, and that it was the south suburban casino that was supposed to stop the flow of gamblers to Gary. With all these new casino’s it gets hard to keep track of the purpose of each.
And there’s room at the Grandstand for slots. In that back alley/hallway where the betting windows are, the whole back wall is free. Not only where the windows are but even down that long hallway where the food/beverage vendors and the bathrooms are on the one side, and there’s nothing along the opposite wall. Unless my memory is faulty (which it often is) you could easily put yards of slots all in a row.
Comment by The Captain Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 12:05 pm
I thought there was going to be a big initial payment for the Chicago license — if that put a dent in the budget hole then in and of itself it’d be a plus. I do feel for Gary but the way to help them is with a regional authority and express train via the south shore line to expand Gary’s airport rather than build a third one in Peotone.
Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 12:12 pm
==Minor point but I thought the purpose of the Chicago casino was to get out of state tourists money, and that it was the south suburban casino that was supposed to stop the flow of gamblers to Gary. With all these new casino’s it gets hard to keep track of the purpose of each.==
Both south suburban and the Chicago casino will take business away from Gary/Hammond (NW Indiana). There are shuttle buses that run to the Horseshoe Casino in Hammond from Chicago, with pickups throughout the day in Chicago’s Northside, the Loop, and Chinatown (and probably other locations too). Also people I know who drive from Chicago to a casino to gamble generally head to NW Indiana now.
Comment by Robert Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 1:41 pm
The only gambling I am for is slots at racetracks because other states have slots at racetracks, and we need that to increase the purses and thus compete and stop horses from leaving this state, and bring back horses that did leave.
Plus, the existing casino’s would no longer have to rebate the race tracks, for cannibalizing race track business.
Illinois needs to reform spending in a serious way.
Comment by Mark Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 1:59 pm
Dial up internet should have hired some lobbyists and got some slot machines. Maybe that consumer rejected business could have stayed around a few more years like horse racing is being allowed to do with via their new subsidy.
Comment by just sayin' Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 2:51 pm
The idea of the mob getting its hands on gaming is not really that scary when you think about it. They are probably more ethical and better prepared to regulate gaming than the inept state police who have a choke-hold on it right now. -maybe one day this stupid state will wake up and make some meaningful changes to government…
Comment by Laughable Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 3:17 pm
===selling out our brand===
I might agree with you if I knew what “brand” you were talking about.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 3:22 pm
Just Sayin - Horseracing isn’t getting a “new” subsidy. The 10th and 3% money (both of which have never been realized by horsemen anyway) goes away if the tracks get slots.
Competition is good. Other states learned that they could enhance their “product” at their tracks if they offered bigger purses. They used slots to supplement those purses and tons of Illinois horsemen closed up shop here and moved to Delaware, NY, IN, FL… The only way to compete with those states is to play the game by the same rules, that means slots at tracks.
Horse racing is alive and very, very well in many states and it can be once again in IL.
The IL horsemen play a huge role in the agricultural industry here and they shouldn’t be pushed to the side. They are the ones who deserve this more than anyone else. Their jobs are worth fighting for.
Comment by Cam McAndrews Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 3:39 pm
===There are a lot of interesting stories here, but one aspect of this that has been ignored is that at 4,000 gaming positions, this legislation authorizes the creation of the largest casino in the United States right in downtown Chicago. Bigger than the Bellagio. Bigger than the Winn. Bigger than New York New York.===
Chicago Cynic, the “boat” in Hammond has over 5000 positions.
Comment by Been There Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 4:17 pm
The purpose of the five new casinos in Senate Bill 744 seems to be stopping the flow of gamblers to other states. So why haven’t the nine existing casinos in cities such as Joliet, Aurora, Elgin, and Rock Island kept Illinois people and their gambling dollars here? Maybe there is something about those casinos that sends our citizens out of state to gamble. I will be interested to see if the the new casino in suburban Des Plaines will keep the local gamblers in Illinois instead of going to Indiana, Wisconsin, or Iowa.
Comment by Ruby Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 4:32 pm
Ruby, all those casinos, including Des Plaines, are either way west or southwest of the city. The traffic is moving southeast.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 4:37 pm
yes, Ruby, you don’t pass Elgin, or even Rock Island on the way from the Loop to Hammond.
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 4:49 pm
Running the numbers from the State of the States survey from the American Gaming Association shows that even with these new gaming machines, Illinois will have 335 people per machine. That is still less per capita than Iowa (153:1) Indiana (278:1) Missouri (299:1) Michigan (301:1) and Wisconsin (317:1). I think people forget how large IL is with almost 13 million people. Maybe that is partly responsible for why our population goes to other states to gamble. “Las Vegas of the Midwest” my eye!
Comment by Cam McAndrews Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 4:53 pm
Rich, There are highways with lanes that allow traffic to travel West as well as East. Depending on where a person lives, Joliet, Aurora, Elgin, and Des Plaines are not that far for most people in the Chicago area.
Jumer’s Casino in Rock Island is near the Illinois and Iowa border and I hear that it and is drawing people from Iowa as well as Illinois.
Comment by Ruby Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 5:07 pm
Ruby, I live in Chicago and can be in Hammond in 15 minutes. The quickest I can be at one of the Illinois boats is 45 minutes.
But you are right about what the Illinois boats offer in comparison to Indiana’s. It amazes me how Harrahs offers bus rides to Hammond from Tinley and Orland when they could just as easily be sending them to their property in Joliet.
Comment by Been There Monday, Jun 6, 11 @ 5:58 pm
Gambling expansion is a very poor way to grow our economy. Why don’t they focus on creating manufacturing jobs instead.
Comment by Palatine Tuesday, Jun 7, 11 @ 7:23 am
Well if it helps keeping fire fighter and police and teachers from lossing there jobs I think it would be a great deal. What about the racetracks that have hendered for the last 20 years the were supose to get the boat that never opened. This bill will help them.
Comment by Andy Robinson Tuesday, Jun 7, 11 @ 11:05 am
I believe it was great idea to have a casino in the McCormick Place on or near cermack and the outer drive, south loop chicago. Great,Great location.
Comment by Karen Sawyer/ Kacyk Tuesday, Jun 7, 11 @ 1:08 pm
people who say the gambling bill is no good need to know it is the only bill passed by the house and senate in i dont know how may years that dosent cost the state anything, add jobs and saves thousands and thousands of jobs in the horse industry that now has people leaving the state everyday… there are more people in hammond in. gambling from illinois then indiana! we are already gambling why not keep the money here and move on to something else ! sign the bill as is
Comment by vinnie Tuesday, Jun 7, 11 @ 1:11 pm