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* Once Wisconsin’s governor signs this bill into law, Illinois will be the only state without some form of concealed carry statute on the books…
Supporters of the measure in Wisconsin said the fact that none of the 48 other states with similar laws have had to repeal them shows opponents’ fears about concealed carry are unwarranted. […]
Under the Wisconsin bill, people who obtain a permit and go through training will be allowed to carry concealed weapons in most public buildings, including the state Capitol and city halls, unless there is a sign posted saying they are not permitted. The weapons would be barred anywhere within 1,000 feet of school grounds, police stations, jails and prisons, courthouses, secure mental health facilities, and beyond airport security checkpoints.
Current law would be loosened when it comes to keeping guns in cars. Under the bill, permit holders could keep loaded, uncased guns in their cars. Guns are currently only allowed in cars if they are unloaded and in a case. […]
Carrying a gun without a permit would be a misdemeanor.
Permit holders could carry guns in taverns and other places that sell alcohol, provided they were not drinking.
Under current law, guns are banned in schools, on school grounds and in school zones - the area 1,000 feet beyond school grounds. The bill would keep in place the ban on carrying guns in schools and on school grounds, but would allow permit holders to carry guns in areas just off school grounds.
Private businesses could post signs to keep guns out of their buildings. Signs could also be posted in government buildings, such as city halls and the state Capitol. But guns could not be banned from government-owned grounds, meaning they could be carried on the Capitol lawn or the Milwaukee Public Zoo. […]
State religious groups have said that the bill should have prohibited carrying concealed weapons in churches instead of requiring individual churches to post signs prohibiting concealed weapons. On May 24, the Wisconsin Catholic Conference, Wisconsin Council of Churches, Wisconsin Jewish Council and the Lutheran Office for Public Policy in Wisconsin sent a letter to lawmakers asking them to ban concealed weapons in churches.
* The state decided not to go with a “constitutional carry” bill, which would allow concealed carry without a permit. Four states allow that now. The “constitutional carry” bill apparently had some momentum, but Gov. Scott Walker signaled that he wouldn’t sign it. Still, the NRA is hoping to broaden the law in the future…
Once a proponent of training and permitting concealed carriers, the NRA is now on a mission to get rid of those mandates, putting the group more in line with groups like the Gun Owners of America and Wisconsin Gun Owners, which has in the past blasted the NRA for being too willing to compromise.
Eradicating the training and permitting mandates, LaSorte says, “will certainly be an aspiration of ours down the road.”
* But since the bill allows concealed carry in their Statehouse, you gotta wonder how long this new policy will remain in effect…
MADISON, Wis. — Authorities have removed metal detectors from the state Capitol’s entrances.
Capitol Police set up the detectors at three Capitol entrances and closed all the other ground floor doors after thousands of protesters descended on the building in February to demonstrate against Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to strip almost all public workers of their collective bargaining rights. […]
The metal detectors were in place Tuesday but were gone on Wednesday morning. Police allowed tourists and visitors to enter the building unimpeded.
* Background…
Since 1986, the NRA has been able to increase from eight to 38 the number of states that “shall issue” concealed carry permits, meaning they will issue permits to anyone who passes the criteria set by law. The NRA is working to change laws in eight other “may issue” states, which give discretion to law enforcement regarding who can receive a permit.
Last year, Arizona passed one of the most permissive concealed carry reform bills in the nation, rolling back training requirements and making the state, along with Alaska and Vermont, the only “constitutional carry” states in the nation. Wyoming made the list earlier this year, and while eight states have turned back attempts to throw out their permit requirements this year, proposed constitutional carry legislation is still on the table in Iowa, Ohio, Georgia and New Hampshire. […]
• Indiana enacted a law that makes it illegal for local governments to prohibit firearms in public libraries, on public transit, in some hospitals and in most local government buildings.
• Florida has adopted a law that prohibits health care providers from asking about or recording information about firearm ownership or the presence of firearms in the home.
• North Dakota enacted a law prohibiting employers from asking if customers or employees are carrying a gun.
• Utah passed a law that allows concealed firearms in parks and stadiums being used for K-12 school activities.
• Both Utah and Arizona have also adopted official state guns.
* From the Illinois State Rifle Association…
“By now, Illinois is used to coming in last place in nearly every form of endeavor,” said Pearson. “But one thing is for certain, Illinois comes in first place when it comes to placing politics before public safety.”
* A note to commenters: Bumper sticker slogans and quickie “drive by” comments are frowned upon here. Come up with an original thought, or don’t bother commenting. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:18 am
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Still waiting to learn how much Chicago’s lengthy litigation campaign against gun owners and gun manufacturers has cost the taxpayers. In the most recent 2nd Amendment case, the US Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that Chicago must pay the prevailing side’s attorney fees and costs. That could amount to a few million dollars. Daley’s vendetta will prove costly to Chicagoans when the city treasury desperately needs every last dollar and cent.
In my opinion, the two worst lawsuits filed at the behest of public officials were the unsuccessful gun ban suits (Richie Daley) and the unsuccessful attempt to halt motor voter registration (Jim Edgar). These lawsuits never stood a chance of being successful.
Comment by Esquire Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:31 am
Well, if every other state ends up having it, does that impact the case that was filed in court over it? Can you successfully argue that if every other state has a may to implement some that is derived from what the court has established as a constitutional right can a state ban it?
I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV, that is why I am asking.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:33 am
The ISRA is really great at preaching to the choir…keeping the faithful fired up. However, they need to change their over-the-top rhetoric if they plan on winning converts. That will probably mean a change in leadership. Otherwise, Illinois will continue to be in “first place.”
Comment by Deep South Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:34 am
Isn’t it “Scott” Walker not “Mark”?
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:34 am
Under the concept of federalism, states are supposed to experiment and do things differently. Therefore, the fact that “everyone else is doing it” is no reason for Illinois to do it. Didn’t your mother say, “If everyone else jumped off the garage roof, would you do it too?”
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:37 am
And another thing…what is this obsession w/ “concealed carry”? I’m vigorously opposed to “concealed”, but might be slightly less vigorously opposed to “open” carry which requires anyone carrying a weapon to do so openly and visibly so I can be warned whom to avoid!
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:41 am
I honestly wonder what the IL politicians will reply with when the oft stated ‘Wild West’ or ‘Bloodbath’ mentaility doesn’t occur in WI. The main crux of many of the naysayers seems to be that CC automatically results in massive public shootouts resulting in hundreds of innocent bystanders being slain and stacked like cordwood.
After a few months w/out any of the above coming true, perhaps they will realize that they are fearful for no reason. It’s just not going to happen.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:49 am
I thank you for giving us a place to vent Rich but we are wasting our breath as long as Chicago runs Illinois. I understand the mind set in the city but they need to understand it is not the legal gun owner that is the prolbem. Until Illinois joins the rest of the union and passes Concealed carry we will continue to live in a state that denies us what the rest of the country takes for granted, it’s second amendment rights!
Comment by nieva Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:50 am
Permit legislators to have conceal carry and the problem for the rest of us will resolve itself…if their recent behavior in the chambers is any indication.
I see no reason not to permit conceal carry. At least then it would be legal. And yes, I understand the idiot factor of conceal carry but perhaps that too would help cull the idiots.
Well…I’m heading to the garage roof.
Comment by Justice Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:51 am
D.P.Gumby,
Your logic re jumping off the garage is flawed. The entire nation has jumped off the garage. It is safe to assume that there is a large mattress on the ground to catch all of us - we know that cause the folks in the other 48 states have apparently landed without any of the horrible outcomes screamed at us by the anti-handgun folks. As the article mentioned, there would be a groundswell of support for the repeal of the CC carry laws in states where the whole thing has gone horribly wrong. Can you point out any state that has done so? The sky is falling folk are simply wrong, sir.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:53 am
As far as I am concerned, this just makes Illinois the last island of sanity in the country on the concealed carry issue. But for how long?
Comment by Dr Kilovolt Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:54 am
I wouldn’t be surprised if the NRA tries to change the WI law to allow firearms in the car in school zones arguing that the current provision creates a difficulty for permit holders dropping their kids off at school while on their way to work.
Comment by Ryan from Carrollton Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:55 am
“By now, Illinois is used to coming in last place in nearly every form of endeavor,”
I know this is a fire-upper for the base, who sees a lack of concealed carry as a moral failure of some kind, but this is the kind of eye-roll inducing rhetoric that works against a cause. If you want to get a contentious measure passed, do the leg work, assure constituencies, and build a coalition. The difference between Greg Harris’s work on Civil Unions and the ISRA’s work on concealed carry are staggering.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:56 am
Sorry that Anonymous was me. My cookies must have been cleaned!
Comment by Served Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 10:57 am
I do not know if it is still the case, but time was when public officials in Illinois, including Chicago aldermen, were permitted to carry handguns on account of their various public duties. This was publicized a few times during the 1980s.
Alderman Richard Mell reportedly has a prized gun collection and he is a familiar customer at several suburban gun stores and pistol ranges. I do not suggest that he routinely carries a gun.
Comment by Esquire Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:00 am
Served, the difference is that civil unions only required 60 and 30, while concealed carry required three-fifths. If cc had only required 60 to pass, they would’ve easily won that floor vote.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:00 am
–“By now, Illinois is used to coming in last place in nearly every form of endeavor,”–
Speak for yourself. We’re clearly at the top of the list in chronic whiners.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:09 am
this state is at a standstill. no concealed carry and no more legislation to support the powers of state law enforcement to regulate the purchase of guns, regulate the sellers, keeping records, etc. make a deal, people. read Scalia’s roadmap and move forward. even Scalia says regulate away. quit wasting money on litigation and confusing regulation. and that litigation part applies to both sides. regulate so people can have their rights on guns, and please let them regulate more ISRA et al.
Comment by amalia Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:11 am
I drove through East St. Louis the other day and wondered just how much crime has concealed carry stopped there. On the other hand, two Marines were mugged over in St Louis last night and no guns were involved.
So many questions yet so few answers
Comment by Bond_Player Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:15 am
No matter what your view on this is you have to give credit to the gun lobby. They have produced the perception you are either on the bus or about to be run over by it.
From experience I can tell you this. When I asked my members would they rather vote to support their paycheck or for someone endorsed by the NRA, very often the answer was NRA.
Comment by Bemused Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:16 am
Bond, unless I’m missing something East St. Louis doesn’t have conceal carry.
Comment by Ryan from Carrollton Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:18 am
Ok, one more time. While it is technically accurate to note that 49 other states have some form of concealed carry, it is not accurate to take that to mean there are people walking around everywhere but Illinois with firearms on their person. Just because it’s on the books, doesn’t mean you can do it. Some state’s concealed carry laws are so restrictive you might as well say they don’t have it. Some states will let you do it but greatly restrict where you can carry. Heading out into the woods? Lock-n-load. Heading into anywhere where there are other people? Forget it.
Here, the NRA says, “Hey, Illinois is backward, every other state allows this.” Go into another state and the argument may be, “Hey, X number of other states allow guns to be carried in bars, so this state is backward.” Pick whatever restriction you want in whatever state, and I’m sure the NRA is trying to make it look like that state is out-of-step with the rest of the country. Brilliant strategy, really.
And, before anyone starts frothing at the mouth at me, let me state that I’m pro concealed carry. I’m also pro facts.
Comment by TwoFeetThick Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:20 am
I don’t have much a problem with concealed carry, although the fact that we are the last State in the Union not to permit it now bothers me. I also don’t have a problem with the various restrictions imposed in other states, including no concealed carry in public buildings, arenas, and other venues.
I don’t own a gun and never cared about owning one. I do support the right of gun ownership as a general principle. I also feel that if I change my mind someday, I would want the right to own a gun. I don’t see myself ever going out and getting a permit for concealed carry. But that is just me.
With the usual overheated arguments both for and against, can anyone come up with a few bloodbaths in other states that resulted from someone who had a permit to conceal carry? I’m not convinced that if we had concealed carry that a few bloodbaths in Illinois would have been stopped or minimized (Northern Illinois University for example).
Just some of my thoughts.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:22 am
concealed carry is not a constitutional right, but it is a public safety issue. i often hear from the gun nuts that concealed carry would reduce crime — apparently on the assumption that criminals are rocket scientists who would give careful thought to the possibility (however likely that it would be) that prospective victims might be armed — but there’s little proof that criminals are intelligent (or even aware of local gun laws), let alone significantly smarter than their victims.
in the end, who cares what other states are doing? for the last 11 years, all i’ve heard is that illinois is different, illinois is special, illinois is unique. so why not retain our unique status is a tangible way? i mean, after all, *we* deserve it! what happens outside of illinois doesn’t matter, right???
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:22 am
–With the usual overheated arguments both for and against, can anyone come up with a few bloodbaths in other states that resulted from someone who had a permit to conceal carry? –
I don’t I’ve ever read, certainly not here, anyone in opposition to conceal carry who claimed that it would lead to “bloodbaths” or “the Wild West.”
Those strawmen phrases are often brought up by proponents.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:27 am
Why did concealed carry need 3/5ths of a vote to pass? Was that the only reason it failed to catch on this year?
Comment by Levois Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:37 am
Up to the last day of school, over 210 children in the Chicago Public Schools had been shot during the year. Of those 24 are known to have been killed. A good question to ask is how many of those shooting and deaths would have been avoided if Illinois had a concealed carry law.
Comment by Left Out Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:49 am
Market it as a plan to generate revenue for C/C permits. What is the problem with law abiding citizens carrying? Criminals already do it. Luckily for me, my hands and feet are registered deadly weapons. I am like a modern day Remo Williams.
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:51 am
–A good question to ask is how many of those shooting and deaths would have been avoided if Illinois had a concealed carry law.–
How many do you think, and what would you base that on?
By the way, you make it sound like all of these kids were shot at school. That’s not the case at all.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:56 am
Trying to find new and original ways to defend Illinois’ position on firearms must be getting really difficult for those on the left. Really amazing that Illinois is so totally backward on this issue. I hope that isn’t a drive by comment, just my honest thoughts on the issue.
Comment by John A Logan Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 11:58 am
word,
I have heard, here and elsewhere, the claim by opponents that road rage incidents involving 2 persons with handguns could lead to shoot-outs and the like. Would that qualify as something out of the “Wild West”?
Besides, the person writing was asking if there were any incidents that have occured, he didn’t ask if those were things folk feared. One is fact based, one is conjectural. So, the question stands - have there been incidents where a CC licensee used a handgun in the commission of a crime? What type of crime? What percentage of CC licensees have been involved in a crime using a concealed firearm?
It is the paucity of these incidents that are used as evidence that the opponents claims that the CC laws increase the liklihood of violence are, in fact, overblown.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 12:04 pm
==A good question to ask is how many of those shooting and deaths would have been avoided if Illinois had a concealed carry law.==
So we’re supposed to be okay with kids carrying? I don’t think so.
Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 12:59 pm
Rich - they could pass conceal carry with a simple majority but that would allow home-rule municipalities to opt out of it.
Seems ironic to me that the ISRA is opposed to local governance, I would think that by giving most of their downstate members CCW rights and allowing some suburbs to opt out that might be a “Win” but for some reason Todd seems to want IL to have most aggressive CCW laws in the land. That’s why he’ll never win.
Comment by siriusly Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:04 pm
I repeat my question: “Why CONCEALED instead of OPEN carry?” If you want to carry it, do it in the open. What’s wrong w/ that?
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:23 pm
Probably better to not allow local opt out.
Look at the patchwork of cell phone laws. You can be on your phone and be in and out of different laws every five minutes. Just makes it harder for a law abiding gun owner to stay legal.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:24 pm
Dupage, the operative word is could. I could also beat the heck out of someone with my bear hands in a road rage incident or gouge their eyes out with my keys. But I have not…yet.
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:31 pm
DP I am betting that concealed does not draw as much attention. ie; The Thursday afternoon ladies bridge club is walking down the street. None of them are discussing gun laws as they unknowingly pass twelve people carrying concealed weapons.
Now picture the same group walking down the street passing the same twelve folks packing in plain sight. Now they are aware and concerned. They may write their legislator to complain.
The NRA knows the power of organized bridge clubs. so they are going for concealed.
It’s the old out of sight out of mind adage.
Comment by Irish Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:44 pm
“Why CONCEALED instead of OPEN carry?”
With concealed carry, the argument is that a criminal will think twice about attacking anyone, because he never knows who is packing.
With open carry, a criminal can easily target someone without a gun and the argument is that it puts citizens not carrying a gun in danger.
Comment by Frank Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:55 pm
—By the way, you make it sound like all of these kids were shot at school. That’s not the case at all.—
I see your point, but does it change L.O’s point? If they were not in school and legally able to protect themselves, the number of deaths cited would probably be lower. While I cannot tell you with any certainty what the magnitude of the reduction would be, we can agree that there is strong certainty that at least one of these people could have prevented their own death/shooting. Right?
Comment by Slick Willy Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:58 pm
“Why CONCEALED instead of OPEN carry?”
Why does it matter? Honest question.
Comment by Slick Willy Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 1:59 pm
–If they were not in school and legally able to protect themselves, the number of deaths cited would probably be lower.–
Is the proposal then to allow children to carry concealed weapons?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 2:04 pm
Levois: Why did concealed carry need 3/5ths of a vote to pass? Was that the only reason it failed to catch on this year?
It needed a supermajority since overruled home rule. Yes. As Rich mentioned, it had more than enough votes for a majority.
Left Out: Up to the last day of school, over 210 children in the Chicago Public Schools had been shot during the year. Of those 24 are known to have been killed. A good question to ask is how many of those shooting and deaths would have been avoided if Illinois had a concealed carry law.
Maybe none. Another and possibly better way of looking at it is how many of those 210 / 24 shootings / deaths were prevented by the existing very restrictive laws. Obviously, none.
Rich had a good section recently regarding the effectiveness on prohibition on alcohol and drugs. The gun control efforts have had similar success. The bad guys don’t obey the law anyway so it just penalizes the law abiding and makes them less able to defend themselves against attack. Obviously our goal is not to make the victims more vulnerable; but that is what the gun control regulations do.
Comment by Logic not emotion Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 2:12 pm
We all know downstate is going to approve this, and there’s no shortage of statutes that except Chicago and/or Cook, so why not permit the rest of the State and give Chicago/Cook wat they want?
Comment by Shemp Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 2:23 pm
@Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 12:59 pm:
“So we’re supposed to be okay with kids carrying? I don’t think so.”
Who said anything about kids carrying? You are kidding correct?
I’m sure you realize it’s illegal for people under 21 to OWN a handgun, much less carry one in Illinois?
Conceal carry would do nothing to change this fact.
So, I guess you are comforted now that you know that every ‘child’ that has a handgun in IL is carrying it illegal? Sure doesn’t seem to have made much of an impact on gang members having a gun on them.
It would be nice if the honest adults in IL were given the ability to protect themselves.
Comment by How Ironic Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 2:43 pm
@ Wumpus 1:31pm,
= Dupage, the operative word is could. I could also beat the heck out of someone with my bear hands in a road rage incident or gouge their eyes out with my keys. But I have not…yet =
Then maybe we should outlaw your hands or regulate your keys.
What would be more appropriate, making you keep your hands in your pockets (concealed carry) or requiring you to dangle your keys from a chain at your belt (open carry, AKA the nerd chain)?
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 2:51 pm
I do not disagree with the posts about open carry of handguns as opposed to concealed carry. In Arizona you may open carry, fully loaded, with 1 in the chamber and you can conceal carry with a permit. If OC with no permit, the handgun must be in a belt holster, and the holster must be “wholly or partially visible”. Basically, if it is readily clear you are wearing a handgun or holster, you are OK.
You may Open Carry a longgun, too, but it must be in a scabbard designed for the carrying of weapons, and also be “wholly or partially visible”.
In AZ loaded guns in cars (without CCW) must be either 1) in plain sight; 2) in a holster; 3) in a glovebox/center console box.
The open carry of a handgun without a license is generally lawful in twenty-four states. Eventually Illinois will allow open carry of weapons with the right of local governments to prohibit it within the limits of cities and towns.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 4:27 pm
Ryan from Carrollton: I wouldn’t be surprised if the NRA tries to change the WI law to allow firearms in the car in school zones arguing that the current provision creates a difficulty for permit holders dropping their kids off at school while on their way to work.
What is to be gained by making legal gun owners with CCW permits jump through hoops just to drive their kids to school? These aren’t people who will harm children. Shootings at schools are not done by CCW permit holders, they are done by criminals who know that nobody will be there to shoot back at them. Gun Free zones really do kill.
Now, as for my own point… I would sooner be around a CCW permit holder with a gun because there are things I know about this person, such as:
-They are law abiding as shown by the effort they made to get a permit.
-They have training, as required to get the permit.
-They have been background checked and found not to be felons.
Do I know these same things about non-CCW permit holders? No, for all I know they can be felons planning their next axe murder.
If you think that you will flip out and go on a shooting rampage, by all means do not buy a gun. As for the rest of us who are responsible adults, who love life and love our families, leave us alone and go find some other axe to grind.
Comment by Benny Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 4:45 pm
Willy, Frank, et al. The reason it matters is that I’d rather see the yahoo who’s carrying and not have to guess. If that means some criminal might be more likely to pick me cuz I’m not carrying, I’m willing to assume that risk because that’s no worse than exists now to hear proponents talk about the hordes of hoods prowling the streets (who of course are not in the country-which supports–but in the city–which opposes…explain that one).
Comment by D.P. Gumby Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 5:01 pm
@Frank -
Just as easy to make the counter argument — with OPEN carry, criminals know who poses a serious threat and won’t bother shooting us unarmed folks.
Frankly, unless atleast 1 in 20 folks are carrying concealed weapons, I’m not sure this three-card monty argument makes much sense.
In fact, I know it doesn’t, because 48 other states have concealed carry and many have violent crime rates higher than Illinois.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 5:26 pm
YDD: In fact, I know it doesn’t, because 48 other states have concealed carry and many have violent crime rates higher than Illinois.
Not many, just 4. Using your logic, Illinois should be the safest State in the Union because it doesn’t allow concealed carry, but it ranks fifth in violent crime.
Supporting stats…
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_vio_cri-crime-violent
Comment by Benny Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 6:18 pm
Every other state in the nation allows either open carry or concealed carry in some form. All of those citizens have a way to exercise their 2nd A rights should they choose to do. Some of those states have various regulations, etc. but none of them have an outright ban like Illinois.
As a result of the two currently active lawsuits, in 2 to 3 years Illinois is going to end up with a SCOTUS ruling that (a) open carry must be allowed or, in the alternative Illinois does not want to have open carry, then (b) Illinois has to have “must issue” concealed carry permits.
And while we’re discussing it, Rich’s drug legalization discussion does apply. Prior to about 1968 and the creation of the FOID system, Illinois had less restrictive gun laws than today. We all survived back then.
There are lots of people walking around today who take advantage of some Illinois court rulings about unloaded transport of weapons in “cases” like fanny packs and car consoles. If the semi-automatic clip type, those guns can be loaded in seconds.
And then there are the people who have concealed carry licenses from other States where they have a part time residence (like a lot of retirees). They are walking around Illinois with loaded weapons in their pockets. Haven’t seen any shootouts at the senior center recently … and most of them are from the WW2 / Korea / Vietnam generations that don’t put up with a lot of BS.
Bottom line: the guns are already out there in the public. The people who own them, by and large, are responsible citizens. They would prefer to be in compliance with Illinois law but have the attitude “better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6″ …
(apologies to Rich on the one slogan … but that is their mindset)
If the Illinois legislature is smart, they’ll pass either open or concealed carry now with enough votes to override home rule. Passing it without home rule with just lead to another McDonald vs Chicago (or Heller vs DC) type case, with Chicago again losing.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 6:47 pm
I have never really been presented with a cogent argument against concealed carry. Such arguments are usually nothing but “what ifs” etc.
I guess I would have to ask the opponents of concealed carry whether they believe that citizens have a right to defend themselves. If these opponents do believe in the right of self defense, could they please describe alternate means of self defense that would provide adequate protection against violent criminals?
Comment by Petey Pal Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 7:25 pm
Simply stupid that we think we know best when it comes to concealed carry. Where is the predicted chaos in the other states?
Comment by Birdseed Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 7:52 pm
According to a survey done a number of years ago by the DuPage County health department, about 5% of county residents carry concealed firearms. Interestingly, that is about the same percentage of citizens living in CCW states who get permits. DuPage County certainly isn’t the wild west.
Comment by Petey Pal Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 9:12 pm
“…gun nuts…” Must be one of the good old boy posters who can get away with any kind of insult without being deleted or banned. Just saying.
Comment by wishbone Wednesday, Jun 22, 11 @ 9:46 pm
My wife just wishes she was allowed to defend herself from attackers that could weigh 2x or 3x more than her while jogging. IL doesn’t allow to her to carry a weapon, a tazer, or even full strength pepper spray. Shouldn’t women have the right to defend themselves?
Comment by Allen Skillicorn Thursday, Jun 23, 11 @ 7:22 am
How Ironic - Actually you are wrong. A ten year old can carry a gun in the field unsupervised hunting if they have completed a hunter safety course.
Comment by Irish Thursday, Jun 23, 11 @ 10:09 am
Gov Quinn’s rhetoric on this issue has been downright embarrassing and childish. Holding a press conference with the widow of a slain Chicago police officer was very low class, too. She said she didn’t want other people to have to suffer as a victim like she is. Umm…did a concealed carry permit holder kill her husband? Or even someone who could qualify for a CCP? I think not.
Quinn also said something stupid like, “I can’t imagine living in a society where someone bumps into someone else in a crowded grocery store, loses their temper and opens fire.” Because that happens in the other 48 states all the time, right?
People are afraid of things they don’t understand. If people were more educated on guns, this would pass with few issues.
Comment by East Sider Thursday, Jun 23, 11 @ 10:56 am
Benny-
Your stats are off. You are referencing total violent crimes and not rates based on population. Total violent crimes are misleading because the top 5 including IL also happen to be the 5 most populous states.
Comment by Gish Thursday, Jun 23, 11 @ 3:57 pm