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House members propose county “opt-in” for concealed carry

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Illinois

* The NRA refused to back a county-by-county concealed carry “opt-in” compromise during the spring session, but some legislators are now going ahead with it anyway…

Three lawmakers who say carrying concealed weapons should be legal in Illinois are pursuing an alternative that would allow individual counties to decide the matter.

Republican state Reps. Bill Mitchell of Forsyth, Adam Brown of Decatur and Chapin Rose of Mahomet held a news conference Thursday in Clinton about their proposed legislation. They also made stops Thursday in Decatur, Tuscola, Monticello and Mahomet. […]

The new proposal is the same as HB 148 except it would give each of the state’s 102 counties the authority to decide.

“Our ultimate goal is to have conceal-and-carry throughout the state,” said Mitchell.

An opt-in bill would probably only require a simple majority in each chamber, rather than the three-fifths super-majorities required of the previous bill. The earlier legislation was deemed as overriding local home rule powers. This wouldn’t. Details…

As written, the bill would authorize sheriffs to issue concealed carry licenses — once the county board OKs it — to citizens who meet age requirements, complete training courses and pass criminal background tests. Once licensed, a person could carry a concealed handgun in any county that adopts the local option.

Concealed guns could not be carried in schools, courthouses, government buildings, churches, libraries, bars, stadiums and in gambling venues. Business owners would be able to prohibit concealed carry on their property as well.

* Gov. Pat Quinn, however, promised yesterday to veto any concealed carry bill…

Quinn stated that he has no plans to allow concealed weapons in Illinois and will veto any such legislation. Illinois is the only state where it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon.

* More…

“In too many places in Illinois there is a violence epidemic, and I believe that we need to address that,” Quinn said. “I do not believe that a law that would allow private individuals to carry loaded concealed weapons on their person in public places is the best way to deal with it.”

* Rep. Rose responded…

“The governor says he’s going to veto it. That’s easy for him to say. He’s got a state taxpayer-funded bodyguard,” Rose said. “There are certain counties in my district where on a Saturday night there is only one deputy sheriff for the whole county. This is about a fundamental right to protect yourself and protect your family from an attacker, an assailant.”

* Southtown Star columnist Phil Kadner supports concealed carry, but with reservations…

Even the thought that civilians are packing is enough to make the average criminal think twice about committing a crime, the concealed-carry crowd contends.

I doubt addicts needing money for a fix think that logically.

As for gang members, the fact that rival gangsters frequently carry guns never seems to deter them from making war on each other.

Would a rapist actually think twice about attacking a woman if concealed carry were the law? That could happen. But aren’t most rapists friends or relatives of the women they attack?

Maybe every person really does need a gun to keep the streets safe.

But if there are so many evil people walking around, if our neighbors cannot be trusted, if our police, courts and jails are inadequate, isn’t there something really wrong with this country?

Shouldn’t we be talking about that more and about concealed carry less?

It surprises me that more people don’t seem outraged by this turn of events.

Yes, carrying a gun may someday save your life. But more guns will not make this country a better place to live.

* Yet another reminder to commenters: This topic always seems to bring out the crazy in people. Bumper sticker slogans and drive-by comments are heavily frowned upon here. Keep your arguments elevated and try to come up with an original thought. Deletions will be swift and banishments will be sure.

* Related…

* Top Cop: Gun Laws Akin to ‘Racism‘

* Zorn: Time to revise Ald. Burke’s bodyguard agreement

* Chicago police union head: City not ready to host G-8, NATO summits: Michael Shields, the president of the Chicago police union, said summits like the G-8 and NATO bring a “bunch of wild, anti-globalist anarchists.”

* Memorial Day 911 tapes cite fighting near beach before closing

* Editorial: Gang roundup is a policy that works

* HIV prison population could grow just by changing a question

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 9:33 am

Comments

Great thinking by the CPD Brass. With all the media, internet and other ways people can communicate, good job hiding the facts/lying to the people. Stop feline-footing and report the facts. Now you look ridiiculous because you appear to be too PC/cowardly to report the news. Report the facts, we can deal with it. Instead, you let internet goofs spout off and they actually are given credibility by your stupidity!

Comment by Wumpus Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 9:58 am
Given support for the last conceal-carry legislation, a county opt-in bill could conceivably get enough votes to override a veto.

Take half a loaf (or more) now, and take your chances in federal court for the rest.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:00 am
This is a great compromise. Cook and surrounding counties can still refuse C&C while the rest of the state can adopt the policy. Neither urban or country areas will have to abide by policy set by the other.

Comment by SirLankselot Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:13 am
well, since Quinn has promised he will veto any concealed carry bill, unless the opposition gets something they really want in this bill and tells Quinn they are for the compromise, it’s done. It’s a good sign that the legislature wants to move ahead without the permission of the NRA, but law enforcement needs some get in the bill to. get to it Brady Campaign.

Comment by amalia Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:15 am
I don’t know if Quinn is thinking about running again, but he always gave off the impression that he was a bit more amenable to downstate issues.

Concealed carry would have been a great campaign issue for him vs. Lisa Madigan and a generic Republican. He would have gotten a lot of respect from the many downstate Democrats.

Comment by an nra member Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:21 am
===Rose said. “There are certain counties in my district where on a Saturday night there is only one deputy sheriff for the whole county.”===

Why?

Probably ’cause their ain’t no crime.

What counties Sen. Rose? Maybe we could check the crime stats…you know, just to be sure.

Comment by Deep South Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:23 am
Rep. Rose…sorry. Didn’t mean to promote the guy.

Comment by Deep South Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:24 am
I’m not sure this legislation wouldn’t still require a super-majority.

Municipalities have Home Rule prerogatives, and the change doesn’t really speak to that.

That said, smart of Chapin Rose to lead this effort.

My prediction: It’ll get MORE than enough votes to overcome a veto.

Part of the reason?

The “non-compact map” that Republicans love to complain about means there are a lot of lawmakers who represent both Cook County and the exurbs, both the city and rural areas.

The “Opt-in” bill provides a great compromise that allows them to represent the public opinion of both areas.

That said, not sure how ISRA feels about this one.

An opt-in bill could undermine their legal battle.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:24 am
Folks, if your choice is severe injury/death or dealing with the consequences of carrying, just go ahead and carry. At least you’ll be alive. When a law puts your life in danger you have no moral obligation to comply.

Comment by TJ Jackson Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:24 am
Sorry, but this proposal is ridiculous. Every morning I put a belt on. I don’t think about it, it’s just part of the routine. I have no doubt that if this were to become law, a person in a county where concealed carry is allowed could get so used to strapping their gun on in the morning that they wouldn’t really think about it. It would just become part of their routine. What then happens to that person if they get caught carrying in a county that doesn’t allow it? Carrying a concealed weapon is a serious crime. You have a good chance of going to prison for that. Are people going to go to prison because they unexpectedly entered a county and forgot to take their gun off?

It should either be whole hog or no hog. Or, at least, the penalty for carrying in a county that doesn’t allow it should be reduced to a simple misdemeanor for those who are permitted to carry in counties that allow it.

Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:31 am
Quinn is on the losing side. The NRA & SAF are going to win one or both of the two pending federal cases on basically the same grounds they won Heller and McDonald. Those cases will, in 2 or 3 years, result in a SCOTUS ruling that Illinois has to have either open carry or must issue concealed carry. You can take that to the bank.

A smart politician (and I’ve never accused Qlimiuinn of that) would make a deal now and get what he could in exchange for what is going to happen anyway …

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:36 am
So the counties that would most likely utilize C/C would not opt in? Okay, lets drill down and make it more specific. Opt at on the individual level.

Comment by Wumpus Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:36 am
typo … “Quinn”

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:37 am
“There are certain counties in my district where on a Saturday night there is only one deputy sheriff for the whole county.

So Rep. Rose is bemoaning the lack of resources in his district? Imagine that from a pro-budget cut guy.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:38 am
More political gimmicks from Chapin Rose and the others. More jingoistic rhetoric pitting downstaters against Chicagoans. So wrong. This is why the Dems keep winning and drawing the maps.

Chapin Rose hasn’t even gotten his milk crate bill passed yet. Does he really have time to be ginning up division and infighting amongst fellow Illinoisans?

Comment by just sayin' Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:38 am
–Every morning I put a belt on. I don’t think about it, it’s just part of the routine.–

That’s the analogy you want to go with, strapping on a gun is as routine as getting dressed, no thought put into it?

Any conceal-carry law that might pass will have plenty of exemptions where you’re just going to have to leave your guns behind.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:44 am
This is a horrible idea. Either you do it for the whole state or you don’t do it at all. I don’t see how you have one county with concealed carry and another county next door without it.

Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:46 am
“Chapin Rose hasn’t even gotten his milk crate bill passed yet.”

too funny!

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:48 am
I think every county south of I-80 would pass this with flying colors, so I don’t think anyone in southern IL would run into the issue of “accidentally” carrying it into a county where it isn’t permitted. Also, ccp holders are ultra aware of where they’re permitted or not permitted to carry, so I highly doubt this will be an issue.

I don’t see why any Chicago-area legislator would oppose this. Their counties won’t pass it, so they have nothing to worry about.

Comment by East Sider Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:52 am
Allowing law abiding citizens to carry firearms for personal protection is bad while secretly letting criminals out of prison early, a number of whom committed violent crimes once out, is ok? Not quite following the logic there Gov.

Comment by Ryan from Carrollton Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:56 am
===That’s the analogy you want to go with, strapping on a gun is as routine as getting dressed, no thought put into it?===

Without rattling off a long list of dangerous things people do without putting thought into it (like talking on a cell phone/texting while driving), yes, someone used to doing something every day will eventually do it without a second thought. A sign on the front of a building will remind you to leave your gun in the car. A small highway sign telling you you just entered a particular county might not be as good a reminder. Especially if that county is one you’re not that familiar with.

Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 10:58 am
Sounds like a bad idea to me. Remember that some cities in Illinois are in two or more counties. Chicago, as an example, is in two counties. That would mean that even the police could become confused as to where it is legal and where it is not legal (which part of town?). It should be a law for all or none of the state.

On the same topic, check out the statements of the new chief of police in Chicago. There is a new video of him on YouTube calling Illinois gun laws raceist.

Comment by Left Out Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:00 am
As if people who want to carry today do not because the law says no or they do not have a permit. If Morgan County votes for concealed and Sangamon County votes no, is there going to be an officer at each road coming into Sangamon checking for concealed? Probably not.

“There is only one deputy sheriff for the whole county.” That imply its a good thing for some guys in a bar to have concealed weapons to help the local cop maintain order? Sounds like any one of a hundred westerns.

whole idea sounds more like way to keep a name familiar for the next election cycle.

Comment by zatoichi Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:03 am
anybody know where there is evidence that criminals are the rocket scientists that phil kadner (and other proponents of concealed carry) assume?

but i have another question: if criminals are so smart that concealed carry could actually act as a deterrent (we know that this isn’t true, since there is no statistically significant difference between crime rights in areas that have and don’t have those laws — not to mention the fact that concealed carry certainly didn’t deter in any fashion the attempted assassination of a u.s. member of congress), why won’t they figure out another way to commit their crimes?

and people wonder why we say that voters are stupid…

Comment by bored now Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:06 am
–Chicago, as an example, is in two counties.–

Cook and…..?

–On the same topic, check out the statements of the new chief of police in Chicago. There is a new video of him on YouTube calling Illinois gun laws raceist. –

McCarthy said:

“I want you to connect one more dot on that chain of African-American history in this country, and tell me if I’m crazy: Federal gun laws that facilitate the flow of illegal firearms into our urban centers, across this country, that are killing black and brown children,” he said according to an WMAQ-Channel 5 story that aired Thursday.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:10 am
“Concealed carry isn’t about protecting one’s family from crime it’s about projecting testosterone from a barrel”

I suspect you might conclude differently if you have a gun to your head or to the head of one of your kids

Comment by TJ Jackson Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:13 am
Left Out, you really need to buy a map or hire a tutor or something. Chicago is in one county.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:31 am
Rich, you’re wrong about Chicago. Left Out knows that Chicago is in 2 counties. Chicago County and Cook County. LOL

Comment by dupage dan Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:45 am
BTW, I think word has it right here. Go with what you can accomplish with the political cards you have and litigate the rest over time. Once you get a foot in the door you have a better chance.

Besides, with the CPD chief making strong statements about the good citizens of Chicago being denied the rights that other Illinois citizens have in the state might make PQ think twice.

Comment by dupage dan Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:48 am
pardon the total ignorance of this question - I too need a tutor - but why concealed? Wouldn’t it be safer if guns were toted without concealment?

Two guys start arguing in a bar, leads to yelling, leads to shoving, leads to someone raising a fist, leads to the concealed carrier shooting the fist-raiser. If the gun was out in the open, it never would have gone that far.

Comment by Robert Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:54 am
For all practical purposes, Chicago is in Cook County, but there is that yet to be developed portion of O’Hare field that inches into Du Page.
That is probably splitting hairs. Will Chicago annex the emptied portion of Bensenville if the O’Hare expansion ever takes place?

Chicago’s new mayor and top cop do not look too good in terms of their lying about the unfortunate occurrences along the lake front on Memorial Day. The Tribune still seems to be deliberately downplaying everything, even after the release of the 9-1-1 tapes. The reporting in the Sun-Times is more realistic.

Comment by Esquire Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 11:56 am
I think it has to be the whole state or the whole state.

Phelps told the ILGA what was coming, now let the lawsuits proceed.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:05 pm
Most of Chicago is in Cook County (about 99% in is Cook County). The western section of O’hare Airport (which is a part of Chicago) is located in DuPage County.

In recent years there has been a long fight over expansion of the airport. That fight (court cases, etc.) was spearheaded by people in DuPage County as that is where much of the airport expansion is/will be centered. For a bit of history see the following:

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/396.html

which notes

“In 1946 Chicago acquired land for O’Hare Airport, including a portion of northeast DuPage.”

If you stand at the O’Hare termins and look west you will see a large hanger for United Airlines. The northeast corner of DuPage County is somewhere in or next to the UAL hanger. Several of the runways are partly in Cook County and partly in DuPage County.

Comment by Left Out Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:13 pm
Glory to the weasel words: “Subject only to the police power” and Glory to the Con-Con ‘70 for guaranteeing to Illinoisans a right to keep and bear arms that does not actually include the right to bear arms.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:13 pm
You can’t carry a concealed carry to O’Hare, The question is moot……

This is a silly conversation

Comment by I'm Just Saying Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:16 pm
—“In too many places in Illinois there is a violence epidemic, and I believe that we need to address that,…”—

So, Govna’ what’s the plan to address that violence epidemic? That’s what I thought. You got nothing but empty and baseless rhetoric.

Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:17 pm
@ Robert:

—why concealed? Wouldn’t it be safer if guns were toted without concealment?—

Not a dumb question at all. The logic is that with concealed carry, thugs cannot tell who is carrying and who is not. Makes them assume that everyone is potentially carrying a firearm. As such, everyone benefits from concealed carry, while under open carry those benefits are limited to just those that actually do carry.

BTW, anon 12:17 is my post.
—Two guys start arguing in a bar, leads to yelling, leads to shoving, leads to someone raising a fist, leads to the concealed carrier shooting the fist-raiser. If the gun was out in the open, it never would have gone that far.—

Probably won’t be allowed to carry in bars, so this will probably not be an issue.

Comment by Slick Willy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:22 pm
Jeez-Louise! I am sure wishing there was a preview option.

Comment by Slick Willy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:23 pm
The only Chicago residents in DuPage County are in St. Johannes Cemetery, and thus will not be applying for CCW anytime soon.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:23 pm
TJ, your idea about not having to obey laws that could put your life in danger is interesting. How about the draft?

Comment by steve schnorf Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:26 pm
>>>>So, Govna’ what’s the plan to address that violence epidemic?

So far we have early release of felons, a repeal of the death penalty, and a vow to keep the citizens defenseless when they’re out and about.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 12:34 pm
What do the (People) want?

I think it was last evening on Channel 20 Springfield that they quoted a poll number 65% of population of IL against CC. Who did the poll?

This is a number I have wondered about for awhile. You know the ole majority rule stuff.

Comment by Bemused Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 1:30 pm
Bemused … majority opinion shouldn’t have anything to do with a constitutional right … and most of us don’t even answer polls anymore.

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 1:42 pm
bored now,

Bernhard Goetz … regardless of your opinion of his actions, violent crime was almost half in NYC for the period of time he was unknown as the shooter of the punks who tried to rob him on the subway

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 1:48 pm
Steve,

Fair question. While selective service potentially forces you into harms way, it also intuitively allows for the right of armed defense. Indeed, armed self defense is a requirement in that setting.

Comment by TJ Jackson Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 1:48 pm
Couple of comments:
1.@ an nra member: agree with you,this is a big disappointment to me about Quinn, always thought he was more downstate friendly. Of course he got beat downstate, so maybe his feelings have changed, but to reject the “county” option outright is downstate dumb, especially when a lot of Democrats support it.

2. @ twofeetthick, automatically putting on the weapon is the whole point. One shouldn’t have to think about whether or not he is armed, she simply should be. Your argument about “forgetting” where you can carry is simplistic. I carry a pair of pliers throughout the week, automatically belting them on; I don’t put them on weekends, and I take them off when visiting my local courthouse. The same will be true with a handgun. And like someone else said, permit holders are going to be very aware of location.
3. @Robert: why concealed carry? Open carry safety-wise probably is better than concealed, but the reality is that open carry isn’t accepted (or going to be) in modern polite society. I would feel silly wearing my pliers to a church function, but the leatherman tool in my pocket feels fine.
After you laugh at the analogy, think about it: boots and jeans and pliers and handgun at the farm or hardware or grocery store-okay; boots and jeans and pliers and handgun at a wedding reception or Easter Sunday church-going to raise a lot of eyebrows-just not the right place for pliers or (visible) weapon.
The people writing these bills have taken this into consideration, hence concealed carry.
In theory,I agree with the NRA’s opposition, but
practically, what Cook count does with this option doesn’t affect me.

Comment by Downstate Commissioner Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:05 pm
Concealed carry on a county-by-county basis is an idea that is so stupid that only an academic would think of it. The mere task of trying to account for 102 county laws and knowing where the county boundaries are located would be monumental. How many people know when they cross the line from one county to another?

I can hear the conversation right now:
Arresting Officer: Do you have a fire arm in your vehicle?
Dupe: Yes sir, it is in my shoulder holster under my left arm.
Arresting Officer: Is the fire arm loaded?
Dupe: Yes sir, with a full magazine and one in the chamber.
Arresting Officer: May I see your FOID card and conceled carry permit?
Dupe: Here you go.
Arresting Officer: Please step out of the car and put your hands on the hood of the vehcile. You are in violation of XXX county laws against the carrying of a concealed fire arm.
Dupe: Aren’t I in YYY County? Where’s the county line?

Comment by Huh? Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:06 pm
We likely could have passed a concealed carry bill that did not preempt home-rule years ago since that requires only 60/30 votes. The NRA has insisted on preemption so we have nothing. I wish Rose and company well.

Comment by reform Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:08 pm
====How many people know when they cross the line from one county to another? ===

There’s usually a sign.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:08 pm
–The mere task of trying to account for 102 county laws and knowing where the county boundaries are located would be monumental.–

The way I read the proposal, there would be a state template that county boards could choose to adopt. There would not be 102 different sets of standards or exemptions.

You would just have to know who’s in and who’s out. My guess is it would be easy to count who’s not in on one hand.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:18 pm
I was surprised when I saw the headline about McCarthy’s speech linking gun laws and racism. The connection is well documented as can be read here:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=916

That McCarthy tried to spin the reality of that connection in favor of gun control is a neat trick.

Comment by Logic not emotion Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:33 pm
–Bemused … majority opinion shouldn’t have anything to do with a constitutional right …–

If conceal-carry is eventually found to be a Constitutional right, it will have been recently discovered.

My guess is that will come down to who is on the court in a couple of years. If Justice Scalia or Kennedy retires, that 5-4 Heller decision might not serve as a launching pad.

Local restrictions on guns have been in effect since the founding. I watched “Winchester 73,” last night, set in Dodge City, KS, July 4, 1876, and Marshal Earp was stacking up all the cowboys’ guns in his office — even that nice Jimmy Stewart’s.

They got them back when they left town.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:35 pm
I am not in favor of this legislation - I would prefer the whole state be uniform throughout. However, this is the best that can be done now and will allow at lease some law-abiding citizens to carry if they are appropriate to do so.

Anyone who is upset that they would have to worry about whether or not they are in a jurisdiction that allows CC or not is ignoring the plain reality staring them in the face. If you travel from one state thru another won’t you have to be concerned about that if you are packing? This is a responsibility you will bear if you choose to CC. It is a responsiblity for you to abide by other laws as well. Some states have different rules of the road, liquor laws, age of consent laws, tax laws - the list goes on. What is so special about restricted CC laws.

Again, I am not in favor of this proposed legislation but it’s the best we can do and it looks like it has legs.

Comment by dupage dan Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:37 pm
The gun issue is unique in that where one stands on it in Illinois is not a typical partisan Dem-Repub divide, but is much more a geographical city/downstate divide. Daily life really is different downstate and in the far collars with respect to being able to count on 911 response and the prompt availability of police and sheriff protection for a crime in progress. Whether you happen to be a D or R voter really is immaterial to this reality if you live beyond the metro area. I think a lot of people in Chicago still don’t get that, or even worse seem not to care. There’s a reason for that old saw, “walk a mile in my shoes.”

Comment by Responsa Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 2:59 pm
I wouldn’t want to be known as a Cook Co or Chicago ILGA critter that had a viewpoint extrapolated from votes to indicate that I think it’s important for downstate to have CCW yet it’s also important to deny the right to my constituents.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:04 pm
“Daily life really is different downstate and in the far collars with respect to being able to count on 911 response and the prompt availability of police and sheriff protection for a crime in progress. ”

Long 911 response times are encountered in Chicago, too, but for entirely different reasons.

People die while waiting for the police to arrive, in everywhere from lil’ Egypt to Roseland.

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:07 pm
RNUG
This is not something I lay awake at night worrying about one way or another but here is my logic.

The gun lobby has been effective at selling the idea to ILGA types that they can either be onboard with or against a groundswell of public opinion in favor of their position.

Now if I am in the ILGA and I think this is only favored by 35% of my people what is my position?

Comment by Bemused Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:31 pm
wordslinger,

I was making the point that rights should not depend on popular opinion; I wasn’t distinguishing between open and concealed. Sooner or later Illinois is going to have to allow one or the other …

And (dragging national politics into it), I’m assuming there will be a course correction at the top in 2012/13 … so any resignations at SCOTUS will most likely be replaced with a like minded person

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:38 pm
Won’t this pose problems for police officers pulling over people for whatever reason and having to approach every single vehicle under the assumption the person is armed? I realize they are very careful and alert already, but to think that every single person in a given vehicle could be armed would have to be somewhat worrisome. IMHO, no good can come out of allowing open-carry or concealed-carry.

Comment by Jimmer Freedette Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:39 pm
Bemused,

I understand … but I have trouble understanding who they are polling. Maybe that is just my bias. I have relatives who would never own guns but I have lots of friends and neighbors who own them; most the latter are either ex-military, retired law enforcement or hunters … so my sample may be self-selecting. But there are a lot of us out here …

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:44 pm
Jimmer Freedette,

law enforcement deals with that every day in the other states and don’t seem to have a problem with it. It’s not the law abiding citizen who is a problem … they respond honestly when asked.

Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:46 pm
If you’re unsure which county you’re in, I recommend checking your GPS before getting out of your car with a sidearm, if you are unsure.

And if you REALLY don’t know which county you’re in, you might want to get back in your vehicle, because you’re probably lost.

I’ve seen some pretty serious red herring arguments on this site, but this one takes the cake.

You guys must think that gun owners are complete and total idiots.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:47 pm
Huh? is right on. Here’s a fun exercise: assume Cook County would not be a county where CC is legalized. Assume you live and work in a collar county where it is. Load Google Maps. Focus on the Cook County border and zoom in close enough that you can see the towns. Notice how many communities are in Cook County on one side of a street, and a collar county on the other. One side of town is in Cook, the other side is in a collar. People in these areas pass back and forth between counties very frequently. This part of town you’re legal. That part of town you’re not. Don’t make a mistake while you’re absent-mindedly running errands or you could be looking at prison time. It would be better to not carry at all, which defeats the purpose of having a concealed carry law. Plus, how would you like to be a cop trying to enforce that?

Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:50 pm
===Assume you live and work in a collar county where it is===

I would then assume you knew where the heck you were.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 3:52 pm
Its a poorly written and concieved bill.

Kudos tomthe reps for trying tomstick upmfor their consituantes.

Quinn stillmhqs a tin ear for this state.

I will think about this more when i am back from vacation

Sent from my ipad poolside in the bahamas, cold beer in hqnd cuban cigar at the ready…….

Comment by Todd Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 4:06 pm
===I would then assume you knew where the heck you were.===

Yep. But having worked campaigns in the area - when you’re driving around with a map - it’s still pretty easy in some of those neighborhoods to lose track of whether you’re in, say, Cook County or Lake County at any given moment. Just be easier to leave the gun home.

Comment by TwoFeetThick Friday, Jun 24, 11 @ 4:09 pm