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* From a Post-Dispatch story about the clash between organized labor and Gov. Pat Quinn over Quinn’s halting of contractual wage increases for unionized public employees…
“We welcome them. They can stay as long as they want,” Quinn said of the [fleeing Wisconsin Democratic senators] in a February interview on MSNBC’s “Hardball with Chris Matthews.” Quinn in the interview lambasted anti-union sentiment in general, and his fellow governor Walker personally, accusing him of waging “a war on workers.”
“The people who teach our kids, who plow the snow off our interstates, those are working men and women and they deserve a decent pay and decent retirement,” Quinn said. “What Gov. Scott Walker’s doing in Wisconsin is just plain wrong.”
Some in the Illinois labor movement now view that interview with irony and bitterness — even to the point of comparing Quinn, unfavorably, with Walker.
“Whatever you think of what Scott Walker did … at least he changed the law (to do it). Pat Quinn is just ignoring the law, to flout collective bargaining rights,” said Anders Lindall, spokesman for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) of Illinois.
* The Question: Is it fair to compare Gov. Pat Quinn to Gov. Scott Walker this way? Take the poll and then please explain your answer in comments.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:26 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Agree with organized labor or not but a contract is a contract.
Comment by Spliff Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:35 pm
I generally am not supportive of the excessive demands of unions, especially AFSCME, but in this case they are right. Quinn broke a contract. He could have found the money for the raises by not filling positions or even eliminating merit comp, especially exempt, staff.
The budget office has not served Quinn right at all on this one and several other bad decisions.
Comment by Cassiopeia Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:39 pm
Pat Quinn on unions is a living example of the Phil Ochs line that a liberal is someone who’s five degrees to the left of center when times are good and five degrees to the right of center when it effects him personally. Collective bargaining is great for Wisconsin, but in Illinois, yanno, maybe we should, oh I don’t know, ignore the whole thing.
Comment by Draznnl (Rhymes with orange) Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:42 pm
It’s fair because the Quinn argument that he was forced to withhold the raises doesn’t make any sense. In 12 of the 14 agencies impacted, the money isn’t there to make it through the end of the year even without the raises, which means he still needs a big supplemental. The shot at labor was more a political convenience than a real attempt to solve the problem. There are other things the Gov could do to cut costs - like let inmates out of prison early. But I guess Quinn thinks that won’t play in the press like poking labor.
Comment by Paying Attention to the Budget Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:44 pm
Love, War and Labor Negotiations?
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:52 pm
Not fair. Walker is proudly anti-union–on principle. Quinn at least likes to think of himself as pro-union, and is just trying to bumble his way through the budget mess.
Comment by Ray del Camino Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:52 pm
It is absolutely fair to compare the two. Walker passed his law, and the his actions since then has not only saved Wisconsin and its municipalities millions of dollars, helping balance their budgets, but protected thousands of union jobs of, “[t]he people who teach our kids, who plow the snow off our interstates, those are working men and women…”
Pat Quinn, on the other hand, not so much…
Comment by Cincinnatus Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:52 pm
The comparison is an insult to Scott Walker’s organizational competence. Setting all considerations of pro/anti labor aside Walker is a lot better at getting things passed and he has a lot narrower margins in both chambers to work with.
Comment by Dirt Digger Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:53 pm
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Quinn asked for this and he got it. It seems that every day, it becomes more clear that we exchanged one self-serving blabbermouth for another.
Comment by aufjunk Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:58 pm
Completely fair. Both Governors are seeking the same end solution, but by different means.
Comment by Its Just Me Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 12:59 pm
I don’t see much difference between the two. Even with the new laws, Wisconsin employees pay less than Illinois employees toward their pensions. On the other hand, Quinn doesn’t advocate revoking collective bargaining, he just ignores the outcome of it.
Comment by Bill Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:00 pm
Quinn and walker are not the same thing. Walker is making decisions driven by a combination of reality and ideology, Quinn seems to be making decisions based on whatever is in his head at a moment. I would be interested from springfield whether you prefer quinn’s all over the place behavior to the blago administration since from reading this blog it doesn’t seem like quinn has been as hoped for.
Comment by Shore Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:00 pm
It’s very fair. Like they say in the TV courtrooms “Counsler, you opened the door.”
PQ opened the door when he took his potshots at Walker. He went on record with his statements: “The people who teach our kids, who plow the snow off our interstates, those are working men and women and they deserve a decent pay and decent retirement,” and “What Gov. Scott Walker’s doing in Wisconsin is just plain wrong.”
Quinn jumped at the photo-op/press-op to make the statements. So it’s only fair he gets painted with the brush he brought.
Comment by Irish Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:02 pm
It is not exactly fair to compare a guy (and his legislature) who stripped rights away from people to a guy who is trying to save jobs by not laying people off by canceling raises his legislature did not fund.
And, if a contract is a contract, the state appears to have an out that other entities do not necessarily have: appropriating power that must constantly be renewed.
Also, let’s remember that real anger here should be directed towards the clowns in the general assembly.
Comment by PrecinctCaptain Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:05 pm
It’s a fair comparison…Quinn is violating a collective bargaining agreement AND singling out union employees in agencies that won’t be able to get through the fiscal year as if that is the fault of only the union employees in those agencies…I know it’s fashionable to rein crap on union employees in all levels of government in hard times, but he’s gonna pay the next time he runs for office…
Comment by Loop Lady Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:08 pm
At least Walker said what he was going to do during his campaign unlike Quinn who took literally millions of dollars from unions only to turn on them.
Comment by Cheese Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:08 pm
It’s not fair in the sense that Scott Walker had a clear objective to break the unions in his state, whereas Pat Quinn is doing his usual bumbling over every issue.
Comment by Waco Kid Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:10 pm
No. The comparison is wrong. Both sought to change union contracts. One did it through legislation. The other by proclaiming he would not follow agreements he previously promised to honor.
But you should have played the “what if” game.
What if Pat Quinn were a Republican?
If Pat Quinn were a Republican, the shrieking, screaming and recall demands in this State would rival Wisconsin’s. But he is a Democrat so he gets a pass for simply deciding to not follow what he previously agreed to or break his word.
Walker changed the law through the legislative process and gets recall petitions for his efforts. Quinn ignores contracts and prior agreements and . . . . gets a lawsuit, some grumping and some mild mannered opposition.
Only in Illinois!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:11 pm
Unfair to Walker who, agree or not, kept his promise as opposed to Quinn who did not.
Comment by Madame Defarge Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:13 pm
===But he is a Democrat so he gets a pass ===
From whom?
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:18 pm
When you live in glass houses! Walker was up front with what he wanted to do. Quinn took money from the unions and was less than honest about his intentions. So maybe it isn’t fair to Walker.
Comment by Kerfuffle Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:19 pm
Not Fair. In addition to what Precinct Captain said, we are talking about one pay increase.
For the get rid of exemp employees…um why would we not ire salary employees who can be made to work 60-80 hrs a week to fund union jobs which go to overtime once the work 37.5 hrs? In fact, we have employees in 100,000-120,000 a year jobs who now get time and a half for work that in the private sector is considered a salaried job. The State needs to retake exempt positions back from the union.
To the a contract is a contract folks…an illegal contract is not enfroceable under the law. Contract with the State can not e entered for more then 1 year without legislative permission since you can not enter a contract without money approrpiated to cover it. If you sign a contract that has no approrpiation behind it, the contract is illegal.
The labor law says a multi-year contract can be entered into, but only to the extent money is approrpiated to cover. No approrpriation no contract.
otherwise Quinn could sign a contract tomorrow to replace every road and bridge in IL; if he doesnt need money and all his contracts are bidning, why not?
Comment by Ghost Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:20 pm
==From whom?==
Fellow Democrats
Unions
Polticians
Media
A few squawks, a lawsuit, an arbitration hearing. Compared to Walker, Quinn is getting a pass. Walker seems to be gunning for long term solutions. Quinn isn’t.
The streets of Springfield were not flooded with angry shrieking protesters. If Quinn were Republican, the reaction would have been a lot harsher, angrier and more extensively covered in an OMG type of fashion.
The mildness of the response in Illinois will give license to Quinn and other politicians seeking to break or not honor union contracts to move forward in such a fashion in a future.
That is one helluva pass politically.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:28 pm
ghost, your argument would be more valid if he had raised some sort of concern during the budget process or even after the budget was on his desk. But he didn’t he didn’t say boo during the process and took the chance to show ‘hey I am tough with unions too’, knowing full well that at some point the courts are going to force the raise, so he can say ‘look I tried’.
But instead of fighting for the deal he signed, he kept his mouth shut and line itemed the raises out of the way.
So yeah I guess it is unfair to compare him to Walker, Walker didn’t take the unions campaign cash and help then jerk them over.
Comment by OneMan Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:51 pm
- Louis G. Atsaves - Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:28 pm:
“The streets of Springfield were not flooded with angry shrieking protesters.”
They provided most of the Democrat turnout for Governor day!
Comment by Cincinnatus Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 1:56 pm
Absolutely. Quinn made so much of the WI issues, even skipping payment on a bet for a time. Now, he has refused to give contracted raises and has refused to pay elected superintendents (separate but related imo). This is especially an issue since Quinn’s labor deal factored so heavily into the Governor’s race that got Quinn elected in the first place.
If it is unfair to anyone, it’s Walker. As Dirt Digger and others laid out–Walker did it in an organized, legal, and legislative body-including way. Probably harsh, but Quinn’s method…NOT BETTER.
Comment by Liandro Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:02 pm
This is not a good comparison for this reason: Walker set out to destroy the very concept of collective bargaining, while Quinn says the problem is a lack of funding from the legislature.
Quinn let raises go through for a few agencies where the budget allowed for the increase. True, that’s only a small percentage compared to those whose raises were halted.
But that’s a far cry from trying to permanently eliminate the concept of collective bargaining. Apples and watermelons, as my granny used to say.
Comment by DuPage Dave Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:14 pm
Walker legally castrated collective bargaining by unions, which I applaud.
Quinn is simply ignoring the contract, inviting a lawsuit where he will be whupped and justifiably so.
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:19 pm
Sorry, but doing away with an employee’s right to collectively bargain and not paying raises with money that doesn’t exist is not the same thing. The legislators that crafted the budget admitted that the money for these raises was not included. Sure, I think Quinn could have done better to make himself more relevant in the budgeting process, but this doesn’t make Quinn a idealogue set on doing away with unions any way he can.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:19 pm
Walker’s agreement MODIFIED collective bargaining rights; it did not eliminated them. These changes save thousands of union employee jobs, and saved the taxpayers millions of dollars.
Comment by Cincinnatus Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:43 pm
No it’s not fair to compare the two. Walker annihilated the unions. Quinn didn’t give them a raise.
This isnt about huge cuts to pay, layoffs, cuts in benefits
Etc. It’s about not getting a freakin RAISE in the middle of one of the worst economies ever.
Comment by Matt Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:51 pm
No Walker is more truthful than Quinn,and better looking.
Comment by mokenavince Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:53 pm
STL and others have something a point…but they eviscerate it by emphasizing “an employee’s right to collectively bargain”. That is flat-out not how the bill was written or passed into law. It didn’t affect all unions, it didn’t even affect all public unions, and then of the unions it did affect it didn’t affect all aspects of bargaining.
You’re right that it is a valid difference from Quinn’s move, but we’re talking comparison here, not equations. They are close enough to warrant comparison, and so they have. And stop misrepresenting what happened in WI. It was an extreme (and many would argue necessary) move, but nearly as much as you are painting it.
Comment by Liandro Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:56 pm
not nearly*
Comment by Liandro Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 2:57 pm
It’s fair especially when you consider the impact of the legislation to strip bargaining rights earlier this year. Quinn may have intended to use the changes as he said he would, but the legislation was so poorly drafted it could have effected many, many more.
Of course it’s fair, only Quinn staffers will disagree.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:04 pm
- Walker’s agreement MODIFIED collective bargaining rights; it did not eliminated them. -
Please, the rights they have left are barely even worthwhile.
And I’m not a Quinn staffer.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:12 pm
Quinn is just being Quinn.
Comment by jt Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:19 pm
In many ways he’s worse than Scott Walker.
With Walker you knew where he stood. No one ever accused him of being a friend of unions, and he never pretended to be one.
Contrast him with Pat Quinn, who was happy to accept the money and help of unions when he was up for re-election, and happy to speak up in their defense to score cheap political points, but threw them under a bus at the first bit of difficulty.
Scott Walker is an enemy of unions, no doubt about it. But Quinn is a traitor.
Comment by so... Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:19 pm
Fair doesn’t count in Horseshoes, handgrenades and politics…But, are the situations comparable intellectually..No. Walker is out to destroy state, local and school government unions; Quinn is not. Quinn has a budget and contract issue.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:25 pm
Irish has it right. Quinn felt justified in criticizing Walker, but it means his own behavior is open to the same scrutiny. Sadly for Quinn, it doesn’t hold up well to close examination. Walker can be accused of cold-blooded union smashing. Quinn comes across more like he’s stumbling around in the dark.
Comment by Aldyth Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:26 pm
Absolutely fair. Walker used the direct approach while Quinn is blaming everyone else.
Comment by Soccertease Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:28 pm
Definitely fair to compare…a goose and gander thing. Regardless, I agree with the premise that a contract is a contract, especially when so many legislators have mentioned the assumption of absorbing the shortfall via unfilled headcount.
Comment by Captain Illini Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:39 pm
“Scott Walker is an enemy of unions, no doubt about it. But Quinn is a traitor.”
Exactly!
Comment by Wensicia Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:44 pm
Fair comparison. Both of them have trimmed union pay.
Only time will tell whether the Waker approach is better than the Quinn approach.
I do like the shift in responsibilities to the Unions to collect their own dues. The State should have never started to do that.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 3:47 pm
Fair to compare. They are both doing similar jobs and facing similar choices. How they go about it or the rationale they use may be very different, but they still have to work to make their state function. Success, failure, or nothing will come with time.
Comment by zatoichi Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 4:50 pm
The Unions seem to forget that the State has 4-5 billion dollars worth of broken contracts with vendors. And the vendors have been waiting a lot longer to get what they are contractually owed.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 4:52 pm
Yea its fair.
Quinn introduces bill to strip collective bargaining rights from legislative liaisons, how is that different from what walker did?
Walker went after certain terms and conditions of collective bargaining for public workers, quinn sets up a two tiered pension system for public workers.
Quinn vetoes jobs bill last year unions wanted.
What’s the differance?
Walker signed a concealed carry law.
Comment by Dozer Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 4:53 pm
run the D2s on Walker and you’ll see union financial support, the same unions(IUOE) that supported Quinn, the slippery slope of labor is almost straight down …to bad…the middle class suffers from it
Comment by railrat Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 5:05 pm
Yes,it’s fair. Quinn is attempting to reneg on his own agreement (no layoffs and deferred raises). Walker’s legisation limited collective bargaining to compensation only (something I would gladly take as a merit comp employee). Quinn’s stance is that no collective bargaining agreement is binding, which is the same as eliminating collective bargaining.
Comment by JustMe Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 6:51 pm
Anonymous “The Unions seem to forget that the State has 4-5 billion dollars worth of broken contracts with vendors. And the vendors have been waiting a lot longer to get what they are contractually owed.”
Although some vendors need immediate cash, the vendors do earn interest on the overdue bills (12%). There is also a clause in the appropriation bill that if the general assembly fails to appropriate funds, the vendor contracts are null and void. The union contract doesn’t have this clause.
I am retired non-union but there is is a big difference between the two.
Comment by Soccertease Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 7:11 pm
No–at leas not altogether. In fact, the Legislature really can’t pretend not to be at all accountable in this matter–no way….Buck up already–the House especially, the Senate and the Gov. need to work this thing out already! And the Gov., in particular, needs to remember that an 18,000 victory margin really isn’t that much–and short-term memory loss can become dangeous–or at least like playing with fire… I explicitly remember seeing/hearing A LOT of those Quinn volunteers both leading up to Election Day and in the “11th Hour” in the days & hours b/4 the voting started–and workin’ their tails off for him–like it or not, were UNION folks…it’s never good to bite the hand of the ones who feed ya…but certainly, do NOT ever take ‘em for granted….
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 8:06 pm
This seems miniscule right now. An IDOT worker got killed on the job today Did either the union, DOT or Govs office do anything to help this mans poor family? Look into it Rich. Its pathetic.
Comment by Anon Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 9:05 pm
Actually, PQ doesn’t measure up to Walker in this thing. At least with Walker you knew what you were getting. PQ is all bait and switch. He knew that the numbers were bad and entered into a fools bargain with the union. AFSCME went into it thinking they had PQ in their back pocket with the “no layoffs” thing.
Boy, did PQ fool them.
I wonder if the unions will come out for PQ next time or will they have a convenient memory lapse?
Comment by dupage dan Monday, Aug 22, 11 @ 11:17 pm
Voted No. Walker knew what he was doing.
Comment by Ouch. Tuesday, Aug 23, 11 @ 8:14 am
Quinn has No Spine. He used the unions to get elected Now he has to own up. At least Walker was straight forward about it. PQ should grow a pair and own up to his deal one way or another.
Comment by The Cardinal Tuesday, Aug 23, 11 @ 9:11 am