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* The setup…
…as September draws near, there’s growing suspicion the curtain is about to close on either manager Ozzie Guillen or general manager Ken Williams — or maybe both.
A major-league source told the Sun-Times that the fragile relationship between Guillen and Williams is now beyond repair.
Not that the Guillen-Williams saga is anything new.
What is new? Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and the Sox are feeling pain in the pocketbook during this frustrating season. Whether it’s because of the drama doesn’t matter anymore. Lost money is lost money.
A year ago, Reinsdorf was willing to play peacemaker, put a Band-Aid on the wound and let it heal over time. It seemed like it did when Williams announced at SoxFest that Guillen’s 2012 club option was picked up. Hugs and kisses for everyone.
That was almost seven months ago, but it feels more like seven years.
There have been at least two known heated blowups between Guillen and Williams, according to sources. But even more significant is the recent talk in baseball circles that the White Sox have been getting a feel for managerial candidates. Sources said that also included renewing talks with the Florida Marlins about compensation for Guillen with the team set to open its new stadium next season.
* The Question: Should Guillen be fired, or Williams, or both? Or neither? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:06 pm
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If so, Williams. Guillen has won with the trash teams that he has been given. Then again, Guillen acts like he does not want to be there half the time.
Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:08 pm
Neither. They both do very good jobs. They are part of the management team that won the only World Series in 200 years of Chicago baseball.
Sometimes you swing and you miss.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:17 pm
Williams acquired good players. Ozzie has underperformed on the field. Ozzie has a big mouth. Ozzie goes.
Comment by formerpolitico Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:18 pm
Ozzie, his family baggage is a real major issue and he is a good manager but I think his shelf life is over.
Comment by Tom Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:23 pm
Keeping Viciedo in AAA for so long tells the story of why both need to go.
Guillen has given up on managing except for pulling lineup and pitching levers. Apparently he couldn’t offer up which useless player to ship out to make room.
And Kenny couldn’t make the decision for Ozzie when he gave up on making decisions and the team needed to inject a bat into the lineup.
Size up Hahn. He is well regarded in the business, and if he’s got his own plan and ideas of running the organization and has just been stuck carrying water of KW, hire him before the Cubs do.
Comment by Elmhurst Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:24 pm
Both. I hate to say that, I love Ozzie. But it’s time to move on for both of them.
I’d like to see Tim Purpura replace Kenny. I don’t know who I want as manager.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:24 pm
I’ve long had a feeling that Williams gets in Ozzie’s way far too much. Let the manager manage. The GM should stay out of day-to-day stuff. Williams should go.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:26 pm
Sorry its Willams he just seems restless and to be truthful has done as bad a as Jim Henry.Look at he terrible signings Rios,Dunn,Peavy, Griffey,
M.Ramirez. It’s time for the SOX to hire Rich Hahn
and if he wants to fire Ozzie let him.
Comment by mokenavince Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:26 pm
Whichever party is responsible for not calling up Dnyan Viciedo in a more timely fashion. Neither will own up to it. The Sox look like a different team with his bat in the lineup. This division was there for the taking but it’s probably too late now.
Comment by Stones Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:29 pm
Sorry - Dayan Viciedo
Comment by Stones Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:29 pm
They don’t communicate. Kenny signs crappy players (can’t fault him on Dunn, though).
Comment by tubbfan Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:33 pm
Williams. The White Sox might have the worst farm system in baseball. Other than Viciedo, they don’t have much of anything coming up the pipeline. Once players like Konerko and Buehrle start to slip as they get older, things are going to get very ugly. I can’t really blame Williams so much for signing Adam Dunn, since he had been incredibly consistent before this year, but the Peavy and Rios acquisitions had red flags from the start.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:34 pm
I think the Sox would be well served to start fresh with a clean slate. Hahn is intriguinng. Ozzie looks miserable and clearly has his eyes on S. Florida. Although players should also be held accountable, Williams has to own the “all in” strategy that didn’t work.
What do you think of the speculation, Rich, about Tony LaRussa coming home to manage for a year, move into second on the victories list behind Connie Mack, and then becoming president of the White Sox? Not saying I buy into it, but it is interesting.
Comment by LincolnLounger Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:36 pm
Word said exactly what I was going to say. Both should stay. We have too short of memories. They have both proved themselves over the years. I dont blame either for Adam Dunn sucking and if he had even a semi-decent season we would be in first. Rios on the other hand needs to be kicked in the backside by one or both of them.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:37 pm
Ozzie seems distracted and spent. I voted him off the reservation.
Maybe he can become the new Cubs GM?
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:38 pm
===Ozzie looks miserable and clearly has his eyes on S. Florida.===
He just bought a new house in Chicago a few weeks ago.
One of my best friends is a Cardinals fan. He hates LaRussa with a passion that burns whitehot. So, I’m not so sure.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:38 pm
You guys can have Tony La Russa back. We’d be happy to send him packing.
Comment by East Sider Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:47 pm
Ditto to East Sider!
Comment by Old Shepherd Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:50 pm
Williams roster strategy has no field strategy…what is he trying to achieve for Ozzie to use? Get in a Theo or someone that has a clue.
Comment by D.P. Gumby Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:52 pm
I vote for neither because It’ll take me a long long time to forget the 2005 season they achieved together (even though this year has been a disaster that didn’t need to happen). But if the relationship is so broken that Reinsdorf believes one or the other has to go, then with Hahn waiting in the wings it’s gotta be Kenny we say bye to. I do think both Williams and Ozzie are top notch baseball guys and decent human beings who unfortunately have a personality conflict. Jerry R. has tried to remain loyal to them both.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 1:55 pm
I vote neither because their spat is the only entertaining thing about the White Sox.
Comment by Draznnl Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:00 pm
I said both, but I think Williams will get canned and Ozzie will leave for Miami one way or the other.
As I said before, this team’s nucleus was built to get back the WS. That was in 2005, and it’s time to face facts, the next White Sox team to return to late October baseball will be almost entirely different than the one on the field now.
Age is taking its toll on the mound, behind the plate, first base, etc. They have some good young players, but I don’t think Ozzie wants to wait while a new GM rebuilds the team and I’m certain Reinsdorf doesn’t want to let Williams start all over, despite his legendary loyalty.
It’s time to break it up and rebuild it. Both Williams and Guillen need to move on elsewhere.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:03 pm
i’m with rich on this one. i think ozzie needs free reign here. did he bring in adam dunn? that, to me, exemplifies how this season went. we didn’t go to games we would this year because of their performance on the field. i did go to a cubs game this year (for free), fwiw.
are you ready for some football??? i know i am. reggie, reggie, reggie (bush)!!!
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:06 pm
K Dub should be sacked. Bad enough drafting his son and giving him a big bonus, but his trades have gutted a once-good farm system that he inherited from Ron Schueler.
Oh, and FIRE GREG WALKER
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:08 pm
fire Williams…Adam Dunn.. Rios…..Ozzie puts fans in the seats.. Plus Willams arrogance is nauseating..
Comment by Lance Stevens Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:09 pm
–Ozzie puts fans in the seats.–
Never heard that one before. Where are they hiding?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:15 pm
Ozzie didn’t sign Dunn or grab Rios off waivers. Granted, all the experts thought that these were great moves, but if anyone’s going to wear the jacket for these blunders, it has to be Kenny. Obviously signing Peavy has not paid off either, but he’s not nearly in the same category as Dunn or Rios. Meanwhile, the Charlotte Knights are SURGING in the AL Central.
Comment by Jack Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:21 pm
The fact that after a pretty good year this is even being discussed shows they should not go. They won in the past. They are over 500 this year. Now is not the time to panic.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:28 pm
From another Cards fan: Take Tony, please.
Comment by vise77 Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:28 pm
===Now is not the time to panic.===
Skeeter’s right. September 30th is the time to panic.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:29 pm
I voted Kenny but really think they both probably should be out. I realize Ozzie just bought a new home but I don’t think that will keep him from heading to Miami (where he also has a home I believe) because I think he will always have a home in Chicago.
As for the silly story about Ozzie managing the Cubs from last week…NEVER gonna happen.
Comment by Masters Phil Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:35 pm
“Williams acquired good players” ?!?!
On what planet is this statement true? Williams has had a horrible run of free agents. It’s Cubs-level bad. Guillen has been far from perfect but it was Williams who so insisted on having a big slow lefty in the lineup that he blew $60 millon on a .168 hitter. This underperforming team is Williams creation. If anyone should be held accountable, it’s him. Ozzie should stay but he doesn’t seem real happy and it’s hard to imagine any GM worth something who would want to take a job where Crazy-Mouth is the first thing waiting for you every morning. So, they probably need to clean the whole house and a manager who is more of a player developer and can work wtih Viciedo, Beckham and Flowers.
Comment by L.S. Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:35 pm
sorry Stanford, your guy Williams is the one who should take the hit. if for Rios alone. what is with that guy? heats up a bit only at the end of the season?
ozzie is #6 on the rankings of managers for whom the players like to play. reason? no baloney. straight in your eye and tell you that you are playing like crap. bringing the kids in the locker room. not a pressure cooker. he is the piece that is not replaceable.
Hahn can step right up and Kenny can go.
Comment by amalia Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:40 pm
Neither. Kenny is good, and Ozzie brings some fan excitement. However, my guess is that Ozzie will ask out, and go south.
Comment by walkinfool Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:47 pm
Williams seems to have a huge need to talk to the media. I always wondered if he thought he should have gotten more press for the World Series. Ozzie has a type of team he wants on the field and Williams doesn’t want to give it to him. Williams should go, but Ozzie will be the one leaving (I always thought Ozzie was a NL style manager anyway). Florida, welcome your new manager in a few.
Comment by levivotedforjudy Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:54 pm
Ozzie may be nuts, but the White Sox farm system is thin so part ways with the guy in charge of the talent pipeline rather than the guy trying to make things go with what trickles out of it.
After the Adam Dunn debacle it’s hard to see White Sox owners going for another big ticket signing anytime soon, so it’s time to go after someone who can build a farm system or from the Billy Beane school.
Comment by Chicago Bars Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 2:57 pm
Williams. His decision making the last few years has been awful. With an infusion of young talent and a couple of pickups, they will compete for the division again next year.
Comment by Buerhle Fan Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:07 pm
i went with neither but could ahve gone with both or just kenny. i think the bs with Ozzie and his “fire me” correlate with Kenny’s isssues. Kick him up to VP of baseball Operations move Hahn into GM and tell Ozzie he’s got a 3 year deal the first time his valet Cowley writes about him saying “I go hold my head up when they fire me” he gets canned. just saying
Comment by southsider Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:17 pm
Despite the pathetic efforts of Rios, Dunn, and Beckham, the Peavy playhouse, and the disasterous start, The Sox are in the pennant race going into September, I credit Ozzie. The Hudson trade, the fat contracts for slugs, the Big Hurt soap opera, and on and on, thats Kenny Williams. Kenny goes.
Comment by overcooked Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:20 pm
keep ozzie. kenny thanks for playing. too much young talent squandered on deals. rick hahn is ready and does not appear to have the ego of kenny williams. williams was not that great of a player so needs the attention now that he did not get then. get over yourself. minor leagues beyond thin because of his deals. he deserves a ton of credit for the job he has done but some of the bad deals coming home to roost and one has to go–keep ozzie.
Comment by erin 17 Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:26 pm
I voted for Ozzie but I don’t think it will happen because I think they will rally and win the division. Then Kenny may want to axe him but it would be a lot harder to do.
When your did your QOTD after Hendry was fired asking who was next I said Ozzie then and I’ll stick with that if they don’t win it.
Comment by siriusly Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:31 pm
The last thing I want is a guy who thinks Juan Pierre is good enough to be an everyday player and leadoff hitter, or Omar Vizquel has any business on a major league field anymore coming back as a manager.
Comment by Elmhurst Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:40 pm
As a lifetime Sox fan and Ozzie backer it pains me to say that I think it is time for him to go. Ozzie has been far too loyal to the older players and it has probably cost the team at least 10 wins this year. As far as Williams goes he should have been booted out of the organization two years ago. That guy hasn’t made one decent trade or free agent signing. As a matter of fact, his signings have been the worst in all of baseball. probably worse than Hendry’s signings. Go Sox!
Comment by ChiPolCon Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 3:51 pm
Who cares? Get rid of them both. They are both set for life financially and have put on a bland boring game. Like every year - wait until next year. Move on to local HS football.
Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 4:02 pm
They both should go, just as the Cubs should have dumped Hendry after Piniella left. You want to shake up a team, bring in all new management.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 4:16 pm
If I saddled my employer with the contracts of Alex Rios and Adam Dunn through 2014, I would offer my resignation.
Comment by Boone Logan Square Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 4:48 pm
Here’s what I think will happen (I am a Cubs fan but I do follow Baseball in General) Kenny is gone after this season no matter what. Ozzie chooses to walk and goes to the Florida Marlins. Remember the Marlins are going into a new Ballpark next season and doesn’t Ozzie live in the Miami area If I recall correctly?
Comment by John Poshepny Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 4:49 pm
Most importantly WALKER has to go. Beckham, Rios, & Dunn, all needed a hitting coach who is more than a good guy who used to play for the sox. Give him another job, but hire a hitting coach, Beckham’s foot’s in the bucket, Rios needs to keep his hands up, Dunn needs to hit the freaking treadmill, and all of them need to be ready before its 0-1!
Comment by Bud Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 5:16 pm
The GM has the job of providing “talent” to the Manager and have an environment where the manager doent have input, like some teams,the money Mr. Riensdorf is losing is solidly on Williams head, when you sign Rios and Hudson, hand the Manager Dunn try to get Pierre benched, Williams neads to move on. Ozzie may talk to much to the media but he’s never not been honest(in his mind) Williams would throw Ozzie under the bus in a heart beat.
Comment by railrat Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 5:56 pm
sorry I meant trade Hudson
Comment by railrat Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 5:58 pm
==I’ve long had a feeling that Williams gets in Ozzie’s way far too much. Let the manager manage. The GM should stay out of day-to-day stuff. Williams should go.==
Rich: And vice versa. They are both control freaks. Remember when Ozzie didn’t want Thome back because he wanted to “manufacture” runs in that launching pad of a ballpark (well, at least in the summer)? Kenny went along that time, and that was the beginning of the end of what will ultimately be remembered as a successful partnership. However, I voted to get rid of both as they are equally culpable for this sorry season (I know they still have a chance, but I gave up following the Sox this year to preserve my sanity). Simply put, this ballclub is a world champ only if the title is for underachieving. That being said, Williams is so streaky with his FA signings. He started out very badly (two words: Todd Ritchie), then went on a roll where he couldn’t miss (and went on to become world champs). So right now, he’s “Bad Kenny” and can’t do anything right, but it’ll be just our luck that “Good Kenny” starts another winning streak with another team…but hopefully not the Cubs!
Comment by Soxfan Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 10:00 pm
They should both go. Ozzie didn’t hire Dunn, but he did keep putting him in the lineup everyday. Dunn should hav gone down to the minors to get his swing back, but Ozzie thought it would embarass Dunn. Dunn has said he wouldn’t change anything about his swing or preparation.
Now Rioos is batting 4th! Ozzie refuses to bench Rios even though Williams told him to play the best players regardless of their salaries.
Ozzie still wants to play National League style baseball, so let him go to the National League.
Comment by Tom Joad Tuesday, Aug 30, 11 @ 10:40 pm
I voted both. Williams has been a terrible GM. His trades have made no sense at all. Why would he think Teahan was good ? He is a mediocre hitter & can’t play a single position at the major league level. Why all the trades with the Kansas City Royals ? The reason the Royals are so bad is that their players suck. Guillen’s sticking with Walker’s under performing as hitting guru is truely puzzling. If one player was struggling it may not be an issue. But the Sox have been struggling offensively for years, with multiple players mired in long slumps over & over. And lets not talk about situational hitting. There isn’t even a clue in that aspect. I have never seen a team that has as much difficulty scoring with a man on third base & less than 2 out. It seems that the approach to hitting is to try to pull every pitch & swing for the fences. Look how long it took Konerko to figure out how to hit to the opposite field. A good hitting instructor would have fixed this issue ages ago. Guillen also gets into too many squabbles.
It is time to start over. Keep the core nucleus of young players they have & start trading the others to rebuild the farm system. This team, as it is currently constructed, has no chance of winning anything. Keep Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez, Sale, Danks, Lillibridge, Flowers & Santos. See what trade value the rest have. Trade for young players that have speed, can catch the ball, can move runners along, can hit in the clutch, can pitch when it counts and have some power. Williams has not demonstrated that he has the basic knowledge of what it takes to win consistently. Guillen is not the answer to manage a young rebuilding team.
Comment by Fed Up Wednesday, Aug 31, 11 @ 8:46 am