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* The usually liberal Southtown Star is now in favor of rolling back the corporate income tax hike…
The higher corporate tax rate has been strongly criticized by the business community as the last thing Illinois needed in trying to remain competitive in jobs with surrounding states. Illinois Chamber of Commerce president Doug Whitley said Illinois’ economy is increasingly intertwined with those of its neighbors and regional cooperation must be the goal rather than states raiding each other for jobs.
“Illinois should never have a higher corporate tax rate than our neighboring states,” Whitley said.
We agree. Illinois political leaders’ fiscal irresponsibility has created great pressure to raise revenue and cut costs to address that massive budget hole. But with the state still waiting for an economic recovery, jobs must be Priority No. 1 — especially keeping and adding well-paying manufacturing jobs.
More needs to be done than simply lowering the corporate tax rate, but lawmakers seem to be getting the message, holding hearings on the increase.
Will they reverse field and lower it? We think they should, but it’s probably unlikely — until a major company leaves the state along with several hundred or even thousands of jobs.
Thoughts on this idea?
* In a somewhat related vein, the Tribune looks at our very narrow sales tax base…
The average state allows its sales tax to be applied to 56 different categories of services, according to the Washington-based Federation of Tax Administrators. In Illinois, the number is 17, most involving utilities.
That sets up curious anomalies. A key reason sales tax rates are so high here is because so little is taxed compared with elsewhere. And despite all the furor about lofty rates, Illinois residents pay less in sales taxes than neighbors in surrounding states where the rates are lower but more is taxed.
Per capita, Illinoisans shelled out $727 in state and local sales taxes in 2008, according to the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group in the nation’s capital. The corresponding number in Indiana was $901, in Wisconsin and Iowa it was $814, and in Missouri, $852.
It’s pretty simple, really. Our rate is so high because we tax so few things, and we bring in less per capita because of it.
* Meanwhile, despite perpetually stubborn unemployment rates, the Tribune editorial board continues to believe that cutting capital projects equals prosperity…
We have no doubt that smart infrastructure investments pay off for the public. But keep in mind that as of July, fewer than 6 million people held jobs in Illinois. So the Tollway plan will expand total employment significantly — if the estimates prove accurate. A few more government projects like that and Illinois risks a labor shortage!
Denying the reality of a state in dire need of job creation won’t change the fact of it. Illinois pols need to get their fiscal affairs in order and make it competitive again. Then, go ahead: Put on a hard hat, and spout off about all the jobs, jobs, jobs supposedly being created over the next 15 years, the next 30, whatever.
If the rest of Illinois is back to work when the politicians preen for the cameras at their news conferences, no one will pay attention anyway.
* And despite all the legitimate uproar about our tax rates, Illinois manufacturers appear comparitively upbeat…
Manufacturers in Illinois were feeling more optimistic than their counterparts across the country at mid-year, according to a survey by tax consulting firm RSM McGladrey Inc.
More than half of Illinois companies, or 52%, were thriving or growing, compared with 44% nationwide, according to the McGladrey Manufacturing and Distribution Monitor survey. Some 64% of local companies plan to increase their workforce in the next year, and 54% will increase inventory, vs. 58% and 46% nationally, respectively.
That’s an improvement over last year, when 48% nationally said they would bolster their workforce.
Still, 60% of the Illinois manufacturers fear that the weakening economy will hinder their business, nearly half are concerned about higher commodity prices and more than a third worry about federal regulation.
* Related…
* Senate Dems seek veto-proof ComEd measure: Ideas on the table include having the utility set up a $50 million fund to help elderly and poor consumers pay their electricity bills, devote $150 million to better insulate its power grid from weather-related outages and cap ComEd’s annual profits to less than 10 percent during the next three years. The provisions have emerged from Senate President John Cullerton’s caucus in a bid to salvage legislation that ComEd pushed through last spring that would enable the utility, in modernizing its power grid, to sidestep the Illinois Commerce Commission on certain rate-hike decisions and lock in double-digit returns on equity.
* Health care expansion to cost Illinois, study finds: Expanding Illinois’ Medicaid program under the federal health-care reform law will cost the state $1.3 billion a year in 2020 and beyond, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Rand Corp.
* Hospitals fear loss of tax exemption in Illinois: [D]aring to seek an exemption on any buildings could land the health center squarely where no Illinois hospital wants to be right now, under the microscope of the state Department of Revenue and possibly subject to losing the tax exemption on Sarah Bush Lincoln’s hospital buildings, Sheagren said.
* ‘Unemployed need not apply‘ a disturbing trend - Companies that bar unemployed job candidates are shortsighted – and wrong
* U.S. lottery sales surge: Is economy the reason?: In Illinois, lottery sales were $2.27 billion in the last fiscal year — July 1, 2010, through June 30, 2011 — up abut 3 percent from the previous year.
* Editorial: Squabbling over sales taxes: The law shouldn’t make it difficult for businesses to vote with their feet. But a company shouldn’t be able to duck sales taxes in Cook County by pretending it’s located downstate.
* Black contractors plan next Friday to disrupt work on new Mississippi River Bridge
* Regulations, taxes aren’t killing small business, owners say
* Three CPS schools break from union, OK longer school day
* Millington (pop. 549) fights for its post office: One person who could speak on behalf of Millington is State Rep. Kay Hatcher, R-Yorkville, who talked to Smith Thursday. “I certainly intend to plead for any community that needs the help,” she says. “I worry because sometimes a big organization doesn’t recognize that in a small community, the post office is truly the gathering spot.”
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 10:48 am
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Previous Post: *** UPDATED x5 - Quinn explains his plan - Brady warns about politics - AFSCME responds - Dugan brushes aside threat - No meetings planned *** Quinn will threaten to close facilities, lay off workers
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Can’t anyone with a circulation of over 20,000 criticize the Chamber of Commerce for a change?
These people try subsidizing political parties in Venezuela to take out Chavez for nationalizing the Venezuelan oil industry.
Comment by Marilyn Chambers Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:03 am
Illinois has so much more to offer than the surrounding states: better infrastructure, more highly educated workforce, lower overall taxes (property, income, etc), more big city amenities…the list goes on and on.
Businesses should be paying more to locate here.
We shouldn’t be participating in the ‘race to the bottom’
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:04 am
–More than half of Illinois companies, or 52%, were thriving or growing, compared with 44% nationwide, according to the McGladrey Manufacturing and Distribution Monitor survey. Some 64% of local companies plan to increase their workforce in the next year, and 54% will increase inventory, vs. 58% and 46% nationally, respectively.–
Oh, that just doesn’t fit the malcontent narrative at all. The glass is half empty, not half full.
If I recall, the income tax increase is scheduled to be rolled back, and would require another vote to keep it intact.
Still, it cracks me up that the outrage has been focused on the corporate side, since the Illinois corporate income tax is the easiest dodge (for most) since Dodge City.
Regular schmucks who file a W-2 are the ones paying the freight here.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:08 am
The number of jobs the tollway project will create is well overestimated. This kind of grandstanding is so common because no one ever goes back to compare the promises to reality.
Just another opportunity for politicians to spend money that has to be borrowed.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:12 am
Lower the corporate rate in exchange for making the income rate increase permanent? Or perhaps lower it in exchange for an expansion of the sales tax base?
Comment by thechampaignlife Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:14 am
–Just another opportunity for politicians to spend money that has to be borrowed.–
Dude, you’re against tollways now, too? How should commerce and millions of people get from Point A to Point B? Burros? Jetpacks?
I’ve got it! Jet-packed burros.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:18 am
i agree that our corporate tax rates shouldn’t be higher than neighboring states. now if someone would explain where we make up the revenues that are necessary to run a very small state government i’m on board! because it is really clear that we have cut our state spending to the bone; if we can’t make up any revenues lost by such a tax cut, we shouldn’t be taking that step…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:24 am
Whitley shouldn’t be so goofy. It is far easier to get a few other states to raise their taxes than to get one state’s taxes lower.
Comment by Artie Dimmesdale Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:29 am
The problem with the Corp tax rate is there are somany lopholes, deductions etc that many compnaies pay little to no tax. So we raise the rate to try and get around the allowed deductionsand off sets. The problem is those companies that do not have access to those loopholes and deductions get sokced.
Instead of raising the rate, lets put in a minimium tax; every copr has to pay at least x% tax on its income.
We can then reduce the overall rate to reduce the burdeon on those who hav been paying by offsetting with money captured from those who have not been paying at all.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:36 am
Higher workers comp,higher taxes of course business would want to be here. Add Pat Quinn what more could we offer. How about raising the
sales tax.Plus a great school system and more government than any other state.Yes we can win the race to the bottom. By golly!
Comment by mokenavince Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 11:41 am
@Rep. Hatcher
The Post Office is billions of dollars in debt. Saving a post office in a tiny town of 549 people is ludicrous. Thought you were a conservative.
Comment by 1776 Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:05 pm
I’m guessing the interests paid for and represented by today’s Chambers of Commerce are not those of local and small businesses.
The Chambers have become conduits of conduits.
Comment by Chambers of Eve Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:07 pm
Wordslinger,
Quinn is already talking that the tax increase might need to be made permanent. We still need to fix workers comp, as far as a small state goverment that’s a joke look at the county’s and townships plus city jobs. The income and property taxes pay all those salaries. I to am against a race to the bottom and favor investing in education and infrastructure. Quinns lack of leadership is a problem his ineptness is hurting the state and he can’t be trusted when he says anything.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:12 pm
actually by percentage of population IL has one of the smallest governments of any other State, including Alaska.
Alaska actually has the largest State Government of any State by percentage of population, coming in at a whopping 22%!! but I digress
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:15 pm
Illinois has almost 650k full-time equivalent employees at the state and local level, about 1 employee for every 20 people.
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:29 pm
Cincinnatus, claims like that are always best when accompanied by a link. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:30 pm
I made a mistake, Illinois has the lowest ratio of State employee at 43 employees for every 10,000 residents.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:32 pm
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17000.html
divided by
http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/10stlil.txt
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:34 pm
Ghost, ibid.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:34 pm
Ghost,
That would be great if we didn’t have such massive county,township and city Govs..
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:42 pm
*Illinois has almost 650k full-time equivalent employees at the state and local level, about 1 employee for every 20 people.*
Cincy-
This stat is meaningless. You want folks to jump to this being an unacceptable number of people being employed by government, which must mean the system is bloated, which must mean with cuts and layoffs everything will be fine. Why waste the time to break down those numbers and have a substantive conversation about them?
As always, you try to over simplify the conversation to back up your ideology.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 12:43 pm
OK, anybody know what Indiana’s corporate income tax is?
I do. It’s 8.5 percent.
Last I checked that’s still higher than Illinois.
Not that facts matter much in this debate.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:08 pm
Fine Cinci, let’s take a look at Texas using your same sources:
http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/10stltx.txt
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html
Can you do the math on that one? Pretty sure the Lonestar State is looking at one government employee for about every 17 citizens. Sure you want to travel down this road?
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:14 pm
–OK, anybody know what Indiana’s corporate income tax is?
I do. It’s 8.5 percent.
Last I checked that’s still higher than Illinois.
Not that facts matter much in this debate. –
Michelle, that can’t be right. That would make the folks who buy Gov. Daniels line on the Indiana economic business Utopia powerhouse miracle seem pretty silly, wouldn’t it?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:20 pm
hey! i like cinci’s link. it shows that the average pay of our full time government employees is $4,806. which puts it all in perspective…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:25 pm
Yes it would.
Gov. Daniels is so upset that he recently signed a law that will drop that sky high rate by a whole 2 percentage points over the next four years.
So, in three years, Indiana will no longer have a higher corp income tax than ours. In year four, it would have a slightly (0.05 percentage point) lower rate, except that’s the year Illinois’ rate would drop back to a couple percentage points below Indiana.
This is all top secret stuff. Can’t be found anywhere on Google or the Indiana state web site.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:31 pm
bored now,
Multiply by 12 assuming no pay raises…
Notice also that in March, TX pay per employee per month is $3680 compared to our $4860. Neither number includes benefits.
Per capita costs of a government employee is less in TX than in IL.
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:36 pm
cinci: comparing illinois to similarly sized states, we find something amazing:
ohio has 525,372 full-time public employees
pennsylvania has 528,274 full-time public employees
new york, which is the only state with more taxing districts than illinois, has 1,125,407 full-time public employees
and florida, just because you all want to know, has 831,976 full-time public employees as measured by the census bureau.
hard to argue that illinois is out of whack here. even harder to argue that what we pay our public employees is out of whack. all that is left is ideologically-tinged spin…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:46 pm
bored now,
Yet, we are the ones with the massive deficit, huge unfunded liabilities, the worst funded pension system and a governor that can’t find his backside with both hands. Makes ya wonder, huh?
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 1:54 pm
Cincy, as even Michelle Bachman would tell you, Texas ran huge budget deficits and covered them with federal stimulus money.
Maybe when you find yours you can talk about Quinn finding his.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/23/news/economy/texas_perry_budget_stimulus/index.htm
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:05 pm
Broaden the sales tax base, lower the rate, and reconfigure and simplify the corporate tax so that it resembles the individual one; no picking winners and losers between different business sectors. Most of the heat about the increase is coming from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange which is singularly nailed by the current corporate tax.
@ Cincinnatus, if Illinois’ state and local employee ratio is indeed one in 20, it puts the state below the national average. (Which, by the way, is what I’d expect; we’re not profligate overall on spending here, despite a lot of things) According to the US statistical abstract, the state and local total is 19.7 million as of 2009, or about one for every 15 or 16 of the country’s total population.
Comment by Angry Chicagoan Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:17 pm
AC, if you broaden the sale tax on individuals in order to lower the corporate tax rate, there might be a whole lot of political blowback. Just sayin…
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:20 pm
cinci: i have lots of issues with local and state government, but the public payroll isn’t high on the list. a lot of the extra employees i see would go away with consolidation of school districts and the end (or consolidation) of unnecessary township functions…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:26 pm
Cincy
Granted our local gov’t sector is bloated. Do you propose to streamline that, or are you part of the protect-townships-at-any-cost coalition?
Comment by reformer Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:42 pm
State Population 12,860,000 ish
we have roughly 55k State employees, give or take.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 2:45 pm
Ghost,
I am quoting all state and local public employees, not just the state.
Reformer,
Township consolidation should definitely (to use a phrase I hate) be on the table,
bored now/ Agry Chicagoan,
Do you not feel per capita cost per employee is a viable metric to track? We also should spend some time evaluating benefits as part of our analysis. I would guess that Illinois has fairly generous benefits for public service employees when compared to other states, which may be a small part of the pension underfunding problem.
Wordslinger/STL,
At least TX was able to cover its deficits. Walker in WI was able to avoid public service layoffs through his collective bargaining reforms. Same can’t be said here as we watch our own meltdown, led by Quinn, which is truly the topic, not what happens in other states. I notice you do like to try to deflect issues by cherry picking some other state and a problem they are having. In IL, I think we see a nice collection of all the worse traits of bad government, wrapped in one tight package, led for many years by Democrats and tow inept Democrat Governors.
Montrose,
What metrics do you think we should use to define the efficiency of state government? I propose one, to be added to many others.
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 3:35 pm
And back to the topic at hand…
There is a wildcard in possible revenue increases, what will the Federal Government do?
There is at least $1T of capital parked offshore by US companies. If this money were to return to the US, it would be used to create new jobs. The Feds could create a low tax rate for repatriated profits used to expand the workforce. Illinois could attract new/expanding business by piggybacking on a Federal plan to lure some business to the state.
Some above have mentioned broadening the sales tax base to include more items. This possibility should be explored, but through the prism of the effect of such broadening on businesses’ continued viability. If broadening does not result in further pressure on the total business base, and employment, it should be considered seriously.
Workers Compensation. True reform, not half-assed efforts. Great idea.
Tort Reform. Would help businesses.
Subsidized production. If a subsidy program cannot be shown to have a long-term cost benefit using employment and tax monies in the metric, eliminate. And none of this Tollway fuzzy math. If 120,000 jobs are a result of the Tollway project, heck, let’s do 10x as many projects. Huzzah! Full employment.
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 3:49 pm
- If this money were to return to the US, it would be used to create new jobs. -
I know this is your new favorite tea party talking point, but there is absolutely no evidence that this would happen. When Bush did the same thing about 90% of the money went to paying dividends and stock buy backs. Many companies cut their workforce and decreased capital spending. Just another gift to the corporate world from taxpayers like you and me with no return.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w15023.pdf
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:04 pm
Whoops, wrong link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/business/20tax.html?pagewanted=all
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:06 pm
On the taxes, regulation and small business, there are some contradictions in the article and some cause and effects aren’t illuminated.
1. One person says banks were too under-regulated after all. (Well, Freddie and Fannie) And another says newer banking regs made it hard for him to get a business loan.
2. Insurance is a big problem, many admitted. The cost to provide the level of insurance mandated by fed and state regulators will be too much for most small employers. Employed people are likely to be dumped into publicly-funded insurance as a result. We’ve barely scratched the surface of what O-care will require of employers, professionals and citizens. Over 1000 waivers have been granted to unions and large employers.
3. Some business owners point to the lack of customers. Many new regulations are applying to larger businesses (sometimes defined as 50+ or 500+ employees, or revenue size, depending on law) which are letting people go left and right b/c of general economic uncertainty. Thus, small businesses, many of which may be exempt from various new regulations, lack a market. How much of the new NRLB regs (card check, etc) will affect smaller employers, I wonder?
4. The current level of taxation is a given, and not a burden as it is. But an increase of the dimensions Dems may want will change their calculus and profit margins. These business owners ought not speak too soon. Had the EPA rules gone through( they will if O’s re-elected) all industrial and consumer energy rates would skyrocket “necessarily.” We dodged a big one.
5. Did the USA Today talk to folks in businesses affected by the variety of new regs? Energy industries? Coal miners? Oil riggers and related businesses? Farmers (how about those Amish facing new regs, unprecedented)? How about New England fishermen? Doctors? Nurses? Hospitals? Let’s talk to Gibson Guitar’s CEO, too.
Comment by Southern Peggy Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:10 pm
The tollroad expansion plan is nutty as presented. It does not place improvements in places that would bring in new users, such as the extension of 53 would. It simply makes changes where the existing users will benefit. Not like infrastructure development it is a bad thing, but a doubling of tolls is not going to help the ‘little guy’ on his/her way to work. Furthermore blurring the line between the toll authority and mass transit systems without any legislative guidance, is at best called mission creep.
A far more sensible thing would be to phase in toll increases over a period of years, announced well in advance, make improvements in areas that will draw new users first.
This would take away the sticker shock and serve the largest number of users possible.
With the surge of development, you will see the use of out of state contractors used to build these projects like happened during the latest expansion orgy. AND as I stated the project will not generate anything near the numbers of jobs they promise.
The interchange expansion is a gift to the big money folks you Dems claim to hate. What’s up with that? Who owns the surrounding land and who do they donate cash to?
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:27 pm
- Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:04 pm:
- If this money were to return to the US, it would be used to create new jobs. -
“I know this is your new favorite tea party talking point, but there is absolutely no evidence that this would happen. ”
If you read my statement carefully, I suggested that the lower tax rate be conditional on reinvestment in American expansion and job creation. It is not a Tea Party talking point any more than I think your drivel is from the Huffington Post. I’m pretty sure you come up with your nonsense yourself…
Comment by Cincinnatus Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 4:48 pm
bored now….
better count your taxing bodies. Illinois has around 7000, the next runner up is Pennsylvania with around 4900.. Where is NY on the list? It’s population is much higher, but has fewer taxing agencies.
Government needs to telescope these down to a more rational level. Cut the taxing authorities in half and you will have half the top administrators, pensions etc. Focus on keeping the right services to the voters and clean house. In as you are wondering, the townships and road commissions can go in all the populated areas, proper planning needs to be done in the more rural regions.
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 6:15 pm
“…the post office is truly the gathering spot.”
Jeez, a republican wants to use tax dollars to prop up gathering spots. What’s wrong with the local diner?
Comment by wishbone Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 7:32 pm
RE: Post office closings - a common sense suggestion: donate the local post office to the village or township or whatever government entity is there and let local volunteers run it as a contractual facility (payment $1 annually from USPS to the government entity or an NGO). That way, if the community wants to keep it, they can staff it a couple of hours a day and maintain it. If USPS doesn’t or can’t donate the current facility, then let the local gathering place (Senior Center?) be the post office under the above guidelines.
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 8:31 pm
Taxes - being a pessimist, ignoring the need for political will to actually do something that might threaten the legislature’s re-election chances, and understanding the average citizen doesn’t have a group really lobbying for them, I fully expect some or all of the following Illinois tax changes over the next five years, listed in order of likelihood:
The “temporary” portion of the recent income tax increase made permanent (part is already permanent)
Various user fees increased
Sales tax expanded to services
Personal income tax expanded to tax some amount of retirement income (if they can get around the single tax rate with a specific exemption)
Corporate tax tweaked but the bottom line of actual taxes generated to be the same or lower than today
And that’s how we’ll muddle through the next 5 to 10 years …
Comment by Retired Non-Union Guy Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 8:40 pm
–There is at least $1T of capital parked offshore by US companies. If this money were to return to the US, it would be used to create new jobs.–
Is that in some Econ 101 Chunky Book or something? What does that even mean — money offshore? Do you sneak it in on speedboats by the light of the moon? What nonsense.
Capital moves very smoothly over the wires or broadband or whatever and there’s no lack of it, as the investors in T-Bonds demonstrate. The problem is lack of lending.
Lot of capital. No lending. The bailed-out banker boys are shifting uncomfortably in their brown pants (so as not to show) and will be open for business on the first Wednesday after the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November 2012, however that goes down.
Book it.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 9:30 pm
Furthermore, the Masters of the Universe — that very small crew of our outlaw financial system — have turned on Obama because he’s black.
Although some of them chipped in when it was clear that McCain was going down after he picked Palin, they were never for him and they’re not going to lift a finger to move this country forward until he’s gone.
Yes, I said it. I didn’t want to, but you’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind to ignore it.
I spend a lot of time on the trading floors of the Merc, CBOT and CBOE and the bars around them too. and it is no secret. Check it out yourself.
Obama comes on TV and the N-bombs start flying openly and vociferously, along with what they ought to do with that “”N”, who is also the president of United States.
Haven’t seen anything like it since the first couple years of the Harold Washington era.
It’s open, it’s ugly and it’s raw.
Obama has lived up to my expectations as someone who really wasn’t ready for the job. But his historic position is bigger than he is, and I’ll fight like hell to advance that proposition over the yabbos who feel it’s acceptable to yell the “N” word in 2011.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 6, 11 @ 9:56 pm
@Wordslinger: (~slow clap~)
re: Offshore $ creating jobs:
Just so we’re clear, when GE (for example) repatriates $500B (again, for example), your premise is that GE will use that money to hire people. My question: To do what? Make things? Who will buy them? You can put out all the supply you want, but there’s no one to buy it until there are enough jobs that people can catch up on their bills and feel secure enough to buy something they don’t absolutely need.
This is the thinnest and most specious argument I have ever heard. “Stimulus” is supposed to mean “injecting public money into citizen’s pockets who then give it to private businesses” , not “injecting public money directly into private businesses’ pockets”.
People don’t need another tax cut (either personal or corporate), they need money to spend on things that other people make, so they can hire more people to make more of it.
Comment by Colossus Wednesday, Sep 7, 11 @ 9:36 am
To follow up: here’s a breakdown of the most effective forms of stimulus in terms of the economic activity it generates.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2008/12/bang-buck
Tell me again why we need to cut spending on things that help American citizens in order to afford tax cuts and overseas wars.
Comment by Colossus Wednesday, Sep 7, 11 @ 9:37 am