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* From the Associated Press…
Alderman: Pot could help cash-strapped Chicago
* The story…
Some officials in cash-strapped Chicago believe they’ve found a way to bring in millions of desperately needed dollars while freeing up police: marijuana.
Alderman Danny Solis plans to introduce an ordinance Wednesday that would make possession of small amounts of marijuana a ticketable offense with a $200 fine rather than a misdemeanor. He estimates the change would generate $7 million a year and, since the vast majority of such cases are dismissed, would save police and courthouse workers money and thousands of hours of time.
Similar laws exist around the country, but unlike in other states and cities where debate has often focused on marijuana use, the discussions in Chicago are centered almost entirely on money and wasted resources.
“In these trying times of the economy, we could really use the revenue generated by fines versus arrests,” Solis said. “And each (arrest) means police officers are spending an inordinate amount of time outside the neighborhoods, inside the district offices doing paperwork.”
* Better yet, just legalize and tax it. A recent Gallup poll shows a majority of Americans favor legalization…
A record-high 50% of Americans now say the use of marijuana should be made legal, up from 46% last year. Forty-six percent say marijuana use should remain illegal. […]
Support for legalizing marijuana is directly and inversely proportional to age, ranging from 62% approval among those 18 to 29 down to 31% among those 65 and older. Liberals are twice as likely as conservatives to favor legalizing marijuana. And Democrats and independents are more likely to be in favor than are Republicans.
More men than women support legalizing the drug. Those in the West and Midwest are more likely to favor it than those in the South.
* In my opinion, the real legislative tipping point will come when moms are OK with legalization. Mothers tend to rule these sorts of issues. They brought on Prohibition, then they helped end it. Ronald Reagan was elected president with big help from moms who were repulsed by skyrocketing marijuana use. Right now, 46 percent of women favor legalization. That’s close, but it has to rise a bit more before any widespread change will come.
One day, hopefully, we’ll stop locking adults in steel cages simply because they put something into their bodies that other people don’t like. It’s ridiculous.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 4:10 am
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I don’t believe pot is a “gateway” drug in the medical sense. What bothers me about it is that we’re teaching people to ignore and openly defy a law, because the law is poorly written or irrelevant. The gateway is in making people pick and choose between which laws make sense and which are dumb and are to be left in place but ignored. That way lays chaos. Either we stick to the law, or we must modify it or eliminate it. This quasi-enforcement gray zone is ripe for misuse, and it damages the legitimacy of all the other statutes.
Comment by Gregor Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 7:16 am
Prohibition clearly demonstrated that getting between human beings and their intoxicants doesn’t work. Legalize the stuff, allow legal outlets for the sale of it, and tax the heck out of it. We lower the prison population, save the cops time and money, undermine the gangs, create legal jobs, and bring in revenue.
Comment by Aldyth Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 7:33 am
Are DUIs going to increase as a result of this?
Comment by Illin in Illinois Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 7:42 am
The so-called “war on drugs” has been an abject failure. It’s time to face facts, including the fact that there’s no principled reason to allow booze and prohibit marijuana. To my conservative friends, what about the arguments that government can’t change human behavior, that the marketplace will always find a way to provide the things that people want, and that legislative do-good efforts frequently come with unintended consequences (e.g. off-the-charts incarceration rates and cross-border violence)?
Comment by Think Big Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 7:51 am
I think the tipping point for marijuana legalization is upon us, and the decisive factor won’t be freedom, or economics, but national security.
There’s a real fighting war going on in the Northern states of Mexico among the cartels and the government (hard to tell sometimes which is which) with tens of thousands of casualties. It’s fueled by the United States demand for weed.
They ship us the weed, we send them money which they use to buy guns and corrupt the government. It’s a pure free market dynamic.
Criminal control of a state of 113 million on our southern border is a lot bigger existential threat to American citizens than anything going on in Kabul.
Take away the cartels’ money via legalization, and you go a long way to solving the problem.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 8:51 am
Anon 8:51 is me.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 8:52 am
Gregor - Well said.
Comment by Birdseed Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:27 am
Following the “gun use safety class” we will move next door to the “Roll your own” dooby class called ‘Happy, hungry, and sleepy’.
Not only will we focus on standard rolling techniques, for a small extra fee, we will show you how to roll a pin joint and as an extra bonus for joining us we will give each of you a huge rolling paper from Cheech and Chongs great selling 2nd album Big Bambú.
For our elected officials, we’ll supply enough money through fees and taxes on pot that you can misdirect and skim millions from the intended use programs.
Of course the beer and liquor industry will fight hard against this effort as smoking pot reduces alcohol consumption. You forget you are thirsty. Crispy Cream however will support the effort.
Comment by Justice Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:30 am
Rich, just say it bro: I smoke myself some pot once in a while and I want it legal.
Now forgive me while I go find someones mom to share a joint with.
Comment by Doobage Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:33 am
I’m a mom and I don’t have a problem with it. I enjoyed it, a lot, in college. Like beer or other alcohol I don’t want it in the hands of kids. If someone over 21 wants to light up, it doesn’t bother me and I just may join you, if it’s legal…ahem.
Comment by anonymous Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:50 am
=For our elected officials, we’ll supply enough money through fees and taxes on pot that you can misdirect and skim millions from the intended use programs=
Bingo. When has more revenue resulted in lower spending? When has more revenue compelled fiscal responsibility?
Tax the air we breath! (snark)
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:50 am
We’re waiting for a few more Republicans besides Ron Paul to apprehend how expensive and ineffective is our Big Government’s War on Drugs.
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:50 am
agree, legalize it and tax it already! but if there aren’t votes to pass that, then fines are a reasonable compromise/first step to legalization.
or maybe only make it legal at horse racing tracks - there’s the compromise. And I might do better picking horses in this scenario.
Comment by Robert Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:54 am
But all of the Nancy Botwins will not support legalization.
Comment by NIref Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:08 am
My son had too many thesis papers due to come home for Thanksgiving one year, so I decided I’d bring Thanksgiving to him. Upon entering his apartment, I was immediately admonished that smoking inside the apartment was strictly prohibited and was told I’d have to step out on the deck when I wanted a cigarette. One of his roommates, being better versed in how to treat a guest, offered me a drink. I sat on the couch, and proceeded to move a collection of bongs around so there was room for my glass on the coffee table. It struck me as ironic that I’d get a verbal smack down from my son about smoking cigarettes when obviously other forms of smoking inside the apartment were being engaged in by him and his roommates.
I was also rather startled that no effort was made to hide the fact that pot smoking was de rigueur in his apartment.
As I processed this on my drive home I had to admit that his priorities made more sense than mine. I know pot is not a gateway drug, and is arguably less dangerous than alcohol (when’s the last time you heard of some kid dying from smoking too much pot) while smoking cigarettes is highly addictive and has horrendous health consequences. While I was not thrilled with the idea of my son smoking pot, if I had to choose between marijuana or tobacco, I’d rather have my kid smoking marijuana.
It’s time to get real about marijuana and just legalize it.
Cook County spends nearly $80 million a year arresting, prosecuting, and jailing people for marijuana possession. White kids whose parents hire them a lawyer get a slap on the hand. Black kids get a record which greases the skids towards jail time down the road.
There’s also the medical benefit of legalizing marijuana. There’s more deaths from prescription drugs than all illegal drugs combined. Substituting marijuana for prescriptions like percocet or oxyconten would have a huge impact on prescription drug addictions and abuse.
I know a lot of mothers will fret about their teenagers using marijuana if it became legal, but let’s be honest. Ask your teenager how many of their friends smoke pot and they’ll tell you none. Ask them the same question when they’re out of college, and you’re going to get a whole different answer. Kids smoked pot when I was in high school 40 years, and kids are still smoking pot in high school today. In the vast majority of cases, the legal aspect of being arrested for pot will have longer and more detrimental consequences than smoking it will.
Comment by Mom Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:15 am
From a public health point of view, we should be trying to get *less* people to smoke, not more.
Comment by Jack Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:16 am
Thanks Mom. Very well said.
Ritalin is a gateway drug. Deaths from prescription drug overdoses are skyrocketing. The next person who dies from marijuana use will be the first. The War on Drugs hasn’t made a dent in demand but has succeeded in lowering the price of illegal drugs while improving their potentcy. The overwhelming majority of urban violence is directly tied to the battle over sales territory.
I hope more Moms wake up and realize it’s time for a new approach. The status quo isn’t working.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:24 am
@Jack & Mom: It is important to remember that the health risks and benefits for pot (while they certainly do exist) are not the same as cigarettes.
@Mom: Cigarette smoke is harder to get rid of. Plus, secondhand smoke is a much greater risk with cigarettes than it is for pot. I’d probably ask you to smoke outside.
@All: I’ve been seeing a lot more legal pot substitutes nowadays. They’re made to emulate pot’s effects, sold as potpourri, and labeled “Not for Human Consumption”. They’re harder, last a little bit shorter, and don’t have the pain relief aspect of pot. There’s a lot greater risk in these because of fewer regulations and less information. Stay safe.
Comment by Timmeh Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:32 am
Never smoked the stuff, but only because I had bad inhalent allergies as a kid, but was around plenty who did. Most of them turned out okay, endingup being productive members of society. Have seem more people with alcohol and cigarette problems than pot, not sure whether that is due to legal issues or not.
Full legalization would have to be at Federal level though, due to drug testing requirements for drivers, police, firemen, etc. because the drug would show up in the tests. Alcohol is rapidly metabolized out of the system, so it really doesn’t affect those who just abstain for a few hours before working. MJ, though would show up days later. Advances in testing might solve the problem, but I don’t know.
Am a strong advocate of legalizing and taxing it.
Never been to a prostitute, but only because I am too cheap… …
Comment by DownstateCommissioner Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:50 am
Legalize it.
Comment by JBilla Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 10:59 am
It would make a lot of sense for those advocating legalization to aim for removing the consequences for testing positive for pot. You’ve got to take little steps before you can run.
Comment by Timmeh Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:05 am
Get with it Chicago. We did this in Springfield a few years ago when we passed Ald. Gail Simpson’s ordinance!
Comment by Alderman Sam Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:06 am
I’m 110% for this, but I don’t like talk of fines to raise revenue — it contributes to a political culture of making things illegal simply to raise money. Now, if we want to talk a tax, that’s a different story.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:12 am
Legalize, tax it and let me get a license to grow my own in the backyard next to the tomatoes.
Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:28 am
Regardless of the talk, the research on marijuana is clear. NIDA-the national Institute on Drug Abuse in October of this year released it most recent finding, approximately 9% of users being a risk of addiction, 18% of all admissions to addiction treatment reported marijuana as their primary drug of choice and 11.5% of all marijuana users reported abusing it. More children under the age of 18 report using marijuana than nicotine. Ok-so it is not a safe drug-but then neither is alcohol. So to deal with this problem our Governor and legislators cut funding for addiction treatment for the past 4 years. So the true cost of substance abuse continues to increase, through increase crime, legal costs, medical cost and many other social costs. I think it is reasonable to expect use to increase if Marijuana is legalized or decriminalized-I wonder if Chicago will ear mark any of the money to go to treating the people who develop life problems with marijuana? or is it just about money for politicians to use to enrich their friends or get reelected. The question should not be about legalization, it should be about how we will care for the consequences of the act legalizing it. Will our politician continue to look at us as a revenue stream but a disposable commodity if we get in trouble? Source for the numbers: http://www.nida.nih.gov/pdf/tib/marijuana.pdf
Comment by John Reese Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:39 am
===More children under the age of 18 report using marijuana than nicotine. ===
That’s because, unlike gas stations, drug dealers don’t check ID cards.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 11:48 am
I was watching the feed from the city council and it just stopped. Does anyone know if the issue came up and was it voted on ?
Comment by Bob Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 12:21 pm
I don’t smoke it anymore but see no reason for other people to give their money to the Latin Kings or other corporate gang group.
It needs to be legalized but alter how it is done in other states. Either make it by Rx via a Dr or licensed therapist. Or, don’t pretend that it’s medicinal and sell it as a recreational product like booze or candy.
Comment by BelleAire Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 12:25 pm
There’s a few problems with relying on NIH’s study. First is their reporting that 18% of all admissions to addition treatment centers reported marijuana as their primary drug of choice. While it may be their drug of choice, the study neglects to state which drug was the primary reason for seeking treatment. I doubt of 18% of people seeking treatment are there for pot addiction.
Also, the report only includes drugs which are illegal. Prescription drugs, a much larger problem than illegal drugs, are not factored into their statistics. Neither is alcohol. All we can tell from the report is that there are more people who abuse marijuana than heroin. I don’t think we needed a study to tell us that.
The report also tries to conflate associations with causes. A correlation is not a cause. If that were true, you could say that the cause of sports injuries was Gatorade.
Because the use of the metaphor that addiction is a disease has taken such strong root in the medical community to a point where people treat it as a fact, successful treatment for addiction has abysmally low rates. That’s one of the reasons why addiction centers fight regulation. As long as they can posit themselves as a cure for addiction without providing any data that backs up their claims, they can continue to make huge profits from desperate people. Addiction is a symptom, not a disease, and as long as only the symptom is the focus of treatment, rehab will continue to fail on a spectacular scale.
The NIH report is too limited and too vague (what exactly constitutes dependence and abuse?) to extrapolate any meaningful information from it.
Comment by Mom Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 12:31 pm
Stoners never give up; and don’t want to grow up. Even when you were being suspended or expelled from school, you just didn’t seem to understand. You didn’t understand when you got pinched either, and you didn’t understand when you failed the pre-employment drug screen, or got tossed off the job because you tested positive.
Non-conformists have either perpetually held that the rules should not apply to them, or that the rules should be changed to allow them to come into compliance, but they have never understood why they should simply have to comply with the rules like everybody else.
Perhaps they were just too high to be able to understand.
Comment by Quinn T. Sential Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 12:47 pm
I would legalize marijuana plus every other “illegal” drug out there. Sell them only to adults in our growing number of casinos to minimize distribution costs and ensure that government’s take is maximized. Require users to see an educational video before purchase. But none of this will happen. Too much drug money gets laundered into seemingly innocuous campaign contributions on the opposition side. And the police, judges, lawyers, prison builders, prison guards, drug dog raisers and trainers, bondsmen, ammo and gun manufacturers,high speed boat and plane builders, and everyone else that prospers under the status quo will double, no triple the drug cartels’ campaign contributions. The Cellinistas and Madiganites like things just the way they are.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 12:58 pm
===but they have never understood why they should simply have to comply with the rules like everybody else.===
Yeah, like tens of millions of people during Prohibition.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 1:03 pm
…In other words, when a sizable number of Americans think a law is stupid, it’s time to stop wagging your finger and waving the law around like it’s holy writ and realize that perhaps it really is a stupid law.
Laws are not carved in granite handed down from Heaven. They are made by people on behalf of the people and they can be changed by people on behalf of the people.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 1:10 pm
The House vote on industrial hemp cultivation was defeated by what, 4 to 1 against. The legislature is far from ready.
The fact that the U.S. shares a huge border with a failed narco-state and almost every civic institution in every country in central america is at risk because of illegal drug demand is inconsequential.
Who has time to deal with real problems?
Comment by bigdaddygeo Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 1:25 pm
{Yeah, like tens of millions of people during Prohibition.}
The “everybody is doing it” defense rings hollow.
{Laws are not carved in granite handed down from Heaven. They are made by people on behalf of the people and they can be changed by people on behalf of the people.}
Prohibition; and its repeal however are the best examples of the elasticity of our constitutional form of government.
Despite Home Rule however, changing a state law on a local basis in the interest of revenue over criminal justice is mis-guided. The Mayor came to Springfield to change state law with regard to speeding in safety zones, why wouldn’t he tell the alderman to do the same with his proposal with respect to marijuana possession?
If they debate this in the City Council however, as a regular visitor to chicago, I would encourage to fill out a slip and ask to testify on behalf of this change in the law.
Comment by Quinn T. Sential Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 2:32 pm
===The “everybody is doing it” defense rings hollow.===
QTS, with all due respect, are you defending the current policy of the War on Drugs? Do you think this policy is working and worth keeping intact, or do you think after billions of dollars wasted, it might be time to rethink our approach?
I believe we need to treat drug use as the health care issue it is, not as a criminal justice issue. Our current policy is a massive, abject failure. Continuing it is insanity.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 2:47 pm
During Prohibition, the rich consumed alcohol with impunity while the poor were prosecuted. The same class distinction exists within the criminal justice system as it in pertains to marijuana.
Two different consequences based on class or race distinction is not justice at all, and legalizing marijuana would be a large step in correcting the inequality.
According to the Illinois Disproportionate Justice Impact Study, “In 2005 in Cook County, home of the largest population of black residents in the state, African-Americans who were arrested only for a Class 4 felony drug possession charge were eight times more likely to go to prison than their white counterparts.”
No one is advancing an “everybody does it” rationale for legalizing marijuana. The arguments for legalization are based on the lack of positive outcomes by keeping it illegal, the systemic unfairness of the justice system, and the cost of prosecuting a rather benign substance.
Comment by Mom Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 2:57 pm
===Prohibition; and its repeal however are the best examples of the elasticity of our constitutional form of government.===
What elasticity? It’s pretty hard to get a constitutional amendment approved. It speaks to how quickly the American people changed their minds during prohibition (~13 years). It shows how much of a problem to society that prohibition caused, that it managed to move that many people from a view supported by a supermajority to a view rejected by a supermajority.
Test out the elasticity of a constitutional government when it comes to the Civil Rights or suffrage movements, or these newer issues like gay marriage and abortion.
Comment by Timmeh Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 3:29 pm
‘Stoners never give up; and don’t want to grow up.’
I must be part of the odd group. People I knew have become judges, politicians, physicians, teachers, business owners, ministers, social workers, consultants, retail managers, and many other successful careers. Who would have thought that possible at 3:00am parties many years ago? People change. Told my kids that while the party life is a blast, the day will come when you’ll look around the room and realize ‘I’ve been here too many times’. There is virtually no human activity that cannot be overdone and be the gateway to something else. Most people figure it out, some never do.
Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 3:31 pm
===and many other successful careers.===
Presidents, even.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 3:35 pm
Too much has been spent on the so called Drug Wars. Too many lives have been wasted when they were thrown in jail for some pot violation. We can’t afford it anymore. Legalize it and tax it.
Comment by Just a Citizen Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 5:08 pm
Legalization or decriminalization not my issue, safer than alcohol again not my issue. My issue is increased use will result in increase cost, will any of the increased income be used to help people who experience life problems as a result of use. Mom–I sited research, you sited opinion, is treatment 100% successful? no but recovery rates are far from abysmal-again based upon research, not personal experience or opinion.
Comment by John Reese Wednesday, Nov 2, 11 @ 9:20 pm