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* A rally yesterday to protest Gov. Pat Quinn’s plan to close some Downstate prison facilities provoked some pretty harsh legislative responses. Democratic Sen. Gary Forby…
“This governor does not care about Southern Illinois. That’s the bottom line,” Forby said, stating if the governor believes the prisoners housed in Tamms don’t need the kind of maximum security treatment they get in the Alexander County prison, then they should be released into Chicago.
Um. Wow. Forby wants Tamms prisoners released into the streets of Chicago? Seems kinda harsh. Then again, Forby has yet another expensive reelection race coming up, and Quinn ain’t all that popular down yonder, so I see what he’s doing here. Just playing to the home folks. But, man, that’s a bit much.
* Rep. Mike Bost (R-YouTube) had this to say…
From the crowd, a shout suggesting voters recall the governor was heard.
“If we had the power, we would recall him (Quinn),” Bost answered.
Well, you do have the power, Representative. Recall is quite difficult to do, but the General Assembly has the power to get it moving. Perhaps instead of throwing documents into the air, you might want to read the Constitution.
* Meanwhile, here’s former Chicago Police Supt. Phil Cline, who has worked hard against medical marijuana legislation, on Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s proposal to issue tickets for minor pot possession…
Calling marijuana “a gateway drug to other drugs,” the former superintendent said he’s concerned that, “The easier we make it for people to use it, the worse it’s gonna be for society … . Marijuana is still a harmful thing. At ages where they can be influenced by things like that, do you want your kids to be smoking marijuana before school?”
No, Mr. Cline, I don’t want kids smoking marijuana before school. I don’t want them drinking whiskey before school, either, but whiskey is a legal product and incredibly dangerous. Frankly, I’d rather that kids not eat sugar-filled Twinkies before school, but children can legally buy those edible atrocities over the counter.
But what I really don’t want, Mr. Cline, is people being arrested and sent to jail because they smoked a joint. Let’s be honest here. You want to lock people in steel cages for putting a substance that you disapprove of into their own bodies.
And this debate shouldn’t be about children anyway. Kids should not smoke pot. Stipulated. Adults probably shouldn’t smoke it, either. Agreed. But putting people in prison is simply not the answer. It’s a horrifically failed policy and it must end.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:00 pm
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This is an issue, like civil unions and the death penalty, where the divisions fall pretty much along partisan lines.
Sure, there are a handful of Republicans who favor medical marijuana and decriminalization, but the vast majority are with Supt. Cline.
Those pols in favor of reform are generally Democrats.
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:11 pm
It’s all about the money for Rahm. Fines=income, prosecution=expense.
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:13 pm
===It’s all about the money for Rahm===
That’s OK by me. It’s about time this country woke up to the huge costs of arresting, booking, trying and imprisoning minor drug users.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:17 pm
Cline’s comments are also a bit nonsensical. If a kid gets caught with pot, she goes into the juvenile system anyway — theoretically, a minor can only be considered “delinquent,” not criminal. So a minor –unless the statute specifically allows the minor to be tried as an adult — can’t be charged with a misdemeanor anyway.
But let’s just suppose that the ticketing option does somehow lighten the punishment for minors. If that’s the issue, can’t we just apply the ticketing option to adults? Minors with pot would go through the same process as today.
To be blunt (yeah, bad pun intended), I think a $100 ticket is more of a deterrent to minors than Cline thinks. My guess is that most cops don’t want to go through the hassle of formally charging a juvenile for such a stupid thing — I think they just confiscate the pot or call the parents (depending on neighborhood). The ticketing option makes it easier for the police officer to actually mete out consequences.
Plus, this stuff about “gateway drug” is rather tenuous. I mean, isn’t breathing a “gateway” to everything else, too?
Comment by The Other Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:19 pm
“…instead of throwing documents into the air, you might want to read the Constitution.”
Thank you Rich Miller. Well said.
Comment by just sayin' Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:28 pm
Yes make pot legal and arrest people for super sized drinks and possessing Twinkies.
“Let my Twinkies go!”
Comment by House of Pain Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:29 pm
My memory wasn’t what it used to be but wasn’t Forby the guy that applauded Blago’s attempt to move IDOT Traffic Safety to the flooded Walmart building down south? It’s funny how he doesn’t like it when it is the other way around!
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:29 pm
==It’s all about the money for Rahm. Fines=income, prosecution=expense.==
Consider it a sin tax, if that will make you feel better. Consider also the savings to law enforcement and manpower, which may be redirected to more serious crimes. Eric Zorn points this out in today’s column.
“The serious upside, according to police Superintendent Garry McCarthy, is that such a reform will free up more than 20,000 hours a year of police time now wasted — I mean spent — processing the more than 18,000 people arrested for possession on minor amounts of pot.”
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2012/06/google-search-sends-pot-reform-fears-up-in-smoke-.html
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:32 pm
To the cost issue:
Research and news reports have estimated that Chicago police make approximately 23,000 arrests each year for marijuana possession, with another 5,000 annual arrests being made in Cook County suburbs. The cost of opening each of these cases, combined with the associated costs of incarceration, are estimated to cost Cook County taxpayers nearly $80 million per year. That’s 84,000 man hours a year for something with a roughly 90% dismissal rate at trial. Yikes!
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:36 pm
Well said Rich. The prohibitionists are always with us. They can’t give up the power they have over others lives.
Comment by wishbone Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:40 pm
Is there any other economic development plan from Southern Illinois legislators besides prisons?
Dale Bowman had an interesting article in the Sunday Sun-Times on why sportsmen up north vacation in Wisconsin rather than Southern Illinois:
One big reason: The Cheeseheads welcome you there, not so much down south.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:44 pm
“It’s a horrifically failed policy and it must end.”
Amen.
Comment by Ahoy! Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 12:50 pm
Rich, you know I agree with you about decriminalization. But when you diss the Twinkie (the pride of Oak Park), I must protest: http://www.oprfhistory.org/explore_local_history/hometown_legends/business/james_dewar/default.aspx
Comment by soccermom Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:02 pm
Come on Capt Fax don’t pick on Boss Toss like that. You know all that readin’ fancy word is for Yankees.
Bablling Bill would know better. Too bad he is off selling advance entry passes to Taj Danville
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:02 pm
And if you’re suggesting deep-fried doobies at the State Fair — Sir, you have gone too far!
Comment by soccermom Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:03 pm
Maybe Forby and Phelps need to be reminded they supported Quinn two years ago. When they had an oppurtunity to make a difference they opted for the Chicago guy.
Comment by Decaturguy Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:08 pm
–Yes make pot legal and arrest people for super sized drinks and possessing Twinkies.–
Decriminalizing and legalizing are different legal concepts. Read carefully: Emanuel is pushing decriminalization.
Comment by King Louis XVI Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:14 pm
Since Republicans always say they’re for less government, why do most of them insist on keeping the big government hammer of prohibition and criminalization?
Comment by reformer Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:20 pm
Unlike alcohol where a BAC test can give a fairly accurate measure of a person’s impairment there is no corresponding method for cannabis. So I think it boils down to an enforcement problem. Just like you can tax and regulate the alcohol content of beverages but you can’t do the same (easily) with the THC content of marijuana. That being said, being drunk is a lot more dangerous to yourself and others than being stoned.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:34 pm
Rep. Mike Bost (R-YouTube)
Ha.
Comment by dave Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:35 pm
“Twinkies are the flame, Ding-Dongs are the fuse, Ho-Hos are the bomb. So don’t you try to equate Twinkies with marijuana, mister, not with me. You may sell that jazz to another Hostess-head, but not to somebody who spends most of their time holding some sick kid’s head while he vomits and retches sitting on a curbstone at four o’clock in the morning. And when his knees get enough starch in them so he can stand up and empty his pockets, you can bet he’ll turn out a cake or two of Twinkies. And you can double your money he’ll be holding a Sno-Ball or a Ring Ding or two. So don’t you con me with your “waste-expansion” slop, I deal with kids every day. I try to clean up the mess that people like you make out of them. I’m the expert here.”
– Sgt. Joe Friday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Twre6ItGEI#t=39s
Comment by MrJM Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:36 pm
(shaking fist at MrJM in futile anger)
Comment by soccermom Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:41 pm
Hey, Rep. Bost - Last time I looked, littering in a public place was against the law. Glass houses, dude…
Comment by soccermom Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:42 pm
Mike Bost should thank whomever got recall for Governors on the ballot and then passed by voters. Oh wait, that was Pat Quinn.
Comment by Thank Bost? Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:50 pm
King Louis XVI - It’s a joke dude lighten up…or light up and you’ll get taxed
Comment by House of Pain Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:53 pm
MrJM - Too freakin funny dude!
Comment by House of Pain Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:58 pm
“…instead of throwing documents into the air, you might want to read the Constitution.”
This blog is funny sometimes.
Comment by John A Logan Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 1:59 pm
“Adults probably shouldn’t smoke it, either. Agreed”.
- Is that why I haven’t seen at our daily “4:20 group” meeting in awhile?
Comment by Moderate REpub Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 2:35 pm
Ugh at the “gateway drug” garbage. Marijuana is a gateway drug only as long as it is illegal.
If you legalize it and regulate it and take it out of the black market just like tobacco and alcohol then the gateway is closed off.
But if you treat marijuana as an illegal drug and a marijuana user discovers that hey… this drug actually isn’t that addictive and doesn’t actually have that awful of consequences for my health and well-being… then they are going to start to think well maybe ALL illegal drugs aren’t actually that dangerous. That’s the danger here.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 2:44 pm
Tobacco is a gateway drug.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 2:57 pm
Rich
Who has been put in prison for smoking pot. no one is in prison for less than 15 grams of weed. Rich legalizeing pot should stand on its own merits without your or others reverse reefer madness BS about people in prison for minor pot crimes it just isn’t so.
Comment by Fed up Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:09 pm
I always thought pot was a gateway drug to Twinkies. It seemed the more pot I smoked, the more Twinkies I wanted.
Comment by Jaded Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:14 pm
From a 1999 Congressional report by the Institute of Medicine and National Academy of Sciences:
“Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana — usually before they are of legal age.
In the sense that marijuana use typically precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use, it is indeed a “gateway” drug. But because underage smoking and alcohol use typically precede marijuana use, marijuana is not the most common, and is rarely the first, “gateway” to illicit drug use.There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.”
BTW, I’m not sure its even true anymore that marijuana is the first “drug” kids use. The rise in prescription drug abuse by teens has been pretty meteoric.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:40 pm
@hisgirlfriday -
See my post above. Teens start drinking and smoking before they try pot.
By Cline’s argument, cigarettes and alcohol should be illegal.
Either that, or children should have parents who talk to them about things like sex, drugs, alcohol and smoking.
I can’t remember which.
YDD
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:43 pm
Rich, I have been noticing that you are more frequently speaking truth to power about the marijuana issue, and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for lending some of your respectability (mild snark) to the issue. On behalf of suffering people and midnight tokers across the state, thank you for your efforts.
Comment by Colossus Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:45 pm
By Clines argument everything he could think up should bee illegal.
Comment by mokenavince Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 3:52 pm
In relation to the closing of the Super-max prison at Tamms and Sen Forby’s comments. I would recommend that people listen to a report on the effect or lack of effect of super-maximum security prisons that was on WBEZ radio in Chicago. http://www.wbez.org/blogs/bez/2012-04/tamms-supermax-closure-life-inside-and-future-facility-97886
I think this story raises very legitimate questions about the concept of super-maximum prisons like Tamms. Second, I think effectively Sen Forby is treating the prisoners at Tamms like they are commodities to be utilized for the benefit of his southern Illinois district. They might well be the worst of the worst, but the Senator has actually zero concern about whether Tamms serves any purpose or if these prisoners may in fact be even more crazed if they are ever released than if they spent less time in virtual isolation.
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 4:09 pm
@Colossus -
Preckwinkle and Rahm have been talking about it.
Kentucky and other states have already done it.
Illinois is not alone, but in many other states, marijuana in particular and drug use in general are considered issues for the Department of Public Health, not the criminal justice system. Public health is much, much cheaper.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 4:29 pm
@YDD:
I know it’s cheaper, you know it, but apparently the people who can do something about it don’t. I’m still waiting for someone to competently explain the downside to this that doesn’t involve reefer madness.
And since I don’t live in Chicago, this doesn’t do a thing for me or mine, so forgive me for being slightly bitter about it. So close, yet so far for the people I want to see get help. A dear friend of mine is a licensed MD and eligible under HB30 for MM, but has to use 2 different prescription (and costly) medications to control symptoms for fear of losing his/her license. The license by which s/he is able to determine that yes, marijuana is a better treatment for the illness than the one s/he is required to prescribe to others and use his/her self.
Ok, feel better for venting. Thanks.
Comment by Colossus Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 4:44 pm
I told my (then) 14 year old grandaughter I would rather she smoke pot once in a while than cigarettes all of the time!
Comment by Geneseo Gent Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 4:45 pm
“Um. Wow. Forby wants Tamms prisoners released into the streets of Chicago? Seems kinda harsh.”
Context?
“…if the governor believes the prisoners housed in Tamms don’t need the kind of maximum security treatment…”
Comment by anony Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 5:00 pm
Cline: “The easier we make it for people to use it, the worse it’s gonna be for society … . Marijuana is still a harmful thing….”
Uhhh. Mr. Cline: Let’s be somewhat mindful of the DAILY shootings and shooting deaths in Chi?
Where exactly do you want cop resources to be spent? Aren’t THESE shooting and deaths WORSE ‘harmful things’?
Comment by anony Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 5:05 pm
We can no longer afford to put people in jail for smoking pot.
Comment by Steve Bartin Wednesday, Jun 20, 12 @ 6:49 pm
The city of Springfield decriminalized possession of a small amount of pot 3 years ago, and here’s a news flash: The sky has not fallen and the police have more resources to devote to violent crimes
Comment by Common Sense Thursday, Jun 21, 12 @ 12:12 am