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* Will Caskey compares the Illinois Democrats’ 2010 Scott Lee Cohen debacle to the current national uproar over Missouri Republican Senate candidate Todd Akin, a US congressman who recently said that women who are raped rarely get pregnant: “First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down”…
The general consensus was that Cohen had to drop out for the high crime of winning a primary no one previously cared about or paid attention to. Now of course this isn’t exactly the same situation as that facing Missouri Republicans regarding Rep./U.S. Senate nominee Todd Akin- after all, U.S. Senators generally accomplish much less than any random Lieutenant Governor. Nevertheless we can take some general lessons from the Cohen incident to advise my Republican colleagues to the south: […]
Cohen won the primary on February 5, 2010. He dropped out the following week. In between he endured an astonishing lashing from every conceivable constituency in the Democratic party (with the occasional exception of politicians he had given $10,000 contributions). The thing is that brain damaged crazy people such as Cohen and Aiken don’t properly understand how not-fun even normal, competitive campaigns are. These sorts of spotlights provide a harsh object lesson. Yes, they usually have an inner circle of yeasayers- Cohen had his willing consultant, Aiken had his familymembers running his campaign (and seriously, NRSC: great job letting that happen). But continuing to campaign means continuing to talk to people who aren’t in your inner circle, and it gets really tedious after a while when every single one of these people hates you.
It can actually sort itself out. Yes, Cohen wreaked a considerable amount of havoc during his brief time as Democratic nominee for lieutenant governor of Illinois. When he dropped out he did so from a bar, drunkenly sobbing, during the Superbowl half time show (I’m not making this up). And Gov. Pat Quinn was in a considerable amount of trouble, particularly when Cohen decided to run for Governor as an independent in a bizarre spite campaign. But he did drop out, and the press moved on to other things (like yelling at Quinn). And in the end, Quinn didn’t win pretty and he didn’t win a majority, but he held on to the governor’s mansion in a year when Democrats got massacred and even Illinois ejected four of its Democratic House members.
So cheer up, Missouri GOP. Yes, your nominee in a state you absolutely must win accidentally broadcast that you all think somewhat more highly of fetuses than rape victims, and yes he’s apparently determined to ride his nomination through 5pm today. But McCaskill was trailing him on Saturday, and you might yet pry her out of her seat.
Discuss.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 12:29 pm
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Thanks for the post Rich! Interested to see comments.
Comment by Will Caskey Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 12:36 pm
As a Republican I’m just ill over the whole thing. Claire McCaskill was a dead woman walking and now she’s gonna waltz into another six year term.
It’s Harry Reid all over again, and it’s the some idiotic wing of the party that has done it to us.
Comment by so.... Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 12:39 pm
As long as the “grass roots” tea party side of the Republican party has a large amount of influence in who gets to run for office we will continue to get backwards thinking Bozos like Aiken loosing very winnable seats.
Comment by Roadiepig Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 12:58 pm
Cohen was an aberration, a whack job who took advantage of lazy Democrats who didn’t pay attention to him.
Akin is bedrock establishment Missouri GOP, a long-time member of Congress and the Missouri legislature. He just beat a bunch of Republicans in the primary.
The national GOP is just scared they’ll miss their chance on a majority and are looking for “ways to try to shut that whole thing down…”
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 12:59 pm
Good blog post by Caskey.
The difference I see - Illinois state Democrats had more time to convince SLC to drop out than Missou/National Republicans have to convince Akin - I believe they have only a few more hours.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:05 pm
I like Cohen better than Akin.He seems much more sensible.The GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.
Thank God we heard his views before the election.
Comment by mokenavince Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:05 pm
This is much worse for the GOP due to Akin’s current status as a Congressman, the spotlight it puts on the Republican platform for abortion and the bill he co-sponsored with VP candidate Ryan changing the definition of rape.
The biggest issue with this might not be Akin, but the fact that this is going to highlight the policies that Republicans are voting on. The Cohen issue was just weird, Akin is actually representing the platform.
Comment by Ahoy! Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:07 pm
The comparison is not apt. If you look at what Akin said, and the basis of his comments, he was expressing the beliefs of a powerful segment of the far right. The original text of H.R.3 — No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act” (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112%3AH.R.3:) included the exemption language “(1) if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest” (The bill was co-sponsored by many prominent, conservative House Republicans.)
The idea he expressed has been batted around for years, and its history was explored in an NPR story yesterday: http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/159392690/examining-the-truth-about-rape-and-pregnancy
I think these two cases are very different. Scott Lee Cohen was an outsider, Akin is not. Akin is a Congressman and had a lot of support; Cohen spent mostly his own money and came out of nowhere. Cohen was pushed out based on his personal history; Akin is getting heat for a policy issue.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:10 pm
Good blog post, agree with lots of it though I think the situation is sufficiently different so that Akin won’t get forced out.
Akin has years in public office, so he’s got a clue about how this game is played. SLC was inexperienced and probably bipolar, so the Dems could make his life pretty hellish, and cause him to drop out.
Akin knows he’s got leverage, and my guess is that the national Republicans will wind up backing him, because they still have a shot in MO, even if he stays.
OT: How smart does Claire McCaskill’s team look right now for playing in the primary?
Comment by J Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:12 pm
===Akin is actually representing the platform===
Exactly. Akin’s position on redefining rape for purposes of an allowable abortion is the same as Paul Ryan’s and is mainstream GOP thinking. Now that it’s been exposed, the GOP want to change the subject. Good luck with that.
Akin’s sin was injecting this into the national debate and splashing this all over Ryan in the process. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of white guys.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:15 pm
I like JBT and I hate to give any credit to our most recent jailed executive but the infamous line from those campaign ads plays in my head every time one of these revelations is made. Aiken and his legitimate rape statement, Congreeman Yoder and his collegues and the skinny dipping, Pat Quinn and any of his statements. each of these generates the thought “What were they thinking?” And then you come to the realization that they weren’t, and that apparently is the modus operandi of a lot of politicians.
Then I get to wondering if this is becoming more prevelant than in years past or is there more focus on it because of the common negative perception of politicians, so does it play better in the media now than before? Didn’t we used to look up to our leaders? Where did that go? Does that affect the other negative occurrances in our lives? Is this recession carrying on longer because we have no faith in our leaders? Especially when we see them stonewalling every attempt to move forward. If so then we are in a vicious circle because we are looking for some good plans to get out of the crisis, but good plans require good ideas generated by thoughtful studying of the problem, and then we realize we don’t have a source for good thoughtful contemplation and rational behavior. Maybe violin/fiddle sales are set to increase.
Comment by Irish Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:17 pm
Akin puts the spotlight on the GOP platform and Congressman Ryan’s support for forcing women made pregnant by rape to carry the rapist’s child for nine months. That’s a position that doesn’t exactly help Republicans attract anyone who wasn’t already in their camp.
Comment by reformer Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:18 pm
Given the national GOP’s anti-abortion platform, which opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest, it would be a very good idea for the GOP to put forth someone who can articulate a reasoned and reasonable argument in support of that position. [And I don’t mean on CapFax, my suggestion is directed at the national party.] Rep. Akin put forth a very unreasonable argument, and deserves every bit of backlash he’s receiving.
If the anti-abortion plank can be defended in its current form, even if others don’t agree with it, it’s still a fair point for discussion and debate. If that position can’t be defended, however, the GOP ought to abandon it, or at least narrow the platform position to something defensible - most likely by making exceptions for rape and incest, which are non-consensual by definition.
Comment by cover Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:20 pm
I guess so, I think Akin’s problem besides a complete lack of knowledge of human anatomy and basic biology was his fear, yes fear of saying an exact position on abortion in all cases, knowing no matter what he said at that point it would not get him any votes and instead cost him votes.
By spouting off some stupid ‘it is a complete corner case’ theory of wishful thinking and ignorance he did infinity more damage than a simple yes or no answer.
Regardless I think he set the bozo bit with enough undecided voters that he is going to lose.
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:22 pm
The Akin situation is quite different from Cohen, as others have pointed out.
I think the Republican response is over-reactive and quite ridiculous. You’ve pushed this hard right stand on abortion since the Tea Party took over the House. Now, own it.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:22 pm
But all he did was say out loud what most Republicans think. And he made up some science to prove his point. Again, it’s what they do.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:26 pm
Irish @ 1:17 pm - “Didn’t we used to look up to our leaders? Where did that go?”
The aura (or maybe veneer?) of trust was stripped away, IMHO, by two principal events: Vietnam being portrayed as a “winnable” war, and Watergate. It’s all been downhill since.
Comment by cover Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:27 pm
To paraphrase Rich Miller…
Bite Me
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:28 pm
First of all, hats of to Caskey for penning some really thought-provoking stuff in recent months.
I’m not so confident that things will “sort themselves out” for Republicans. Yes, Cohen sorted out. Derrick Smith has not.
Part of the reason I’m unconvinced is that I think a better Illinois analogy is Carol Moseley Braun. Everyone in the Democratic establishment in Illinois would have preferred Braun to step aside. She made many missteps — I remember Fitzgerald campaigning “Braun has spent more time in Nigeria than she has in Peoria”, and it was true.
At the same time, Braun was a sitting officeholder, clinged to strongly-held beliefs, and was surrounded by folks who believed in her just as much.
Most importantly, despite her problems she nearly pulled it out because she had a strong base that would vote for her no matter what.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:32 pm
BTW: Akin is a member of the House Science Committee.
Why am I not surprised?
Comment by Loop Lady Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:37 pm
Sorry OneMan, but that is the image your team projects.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:48 pm
Really,
You really think most Republicans even pro-life Republicans (yes there are pro-choice Republicans) share this idiots thoughts about biology?
Using that same logic I can say that Democrats all think like Robert Byrd in 1968 and that is the image they project…
or
You are all crooks because the vast majority of elected officials charged and convicted in this state in the last 20 years are Democrats…
Oh wait, that’s right. I have the ability to not judge an entire group by a few…
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 1:55 pm
@ Loop Lady - “BTW: Akin is a member of the House Science Committee.”
Yikes! That is akin to an Al Queda operative being on the Nation Security Council. (Sorry, I had to do the Akin/akin pun.)
Comment by Crime Fighter Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:11 pm
What Cheryl 44 said.
Scott Lee Cohen won fair and square, and he should have been allowed to stay on the ballot if only to provide an abject lesson to voters, the party leadership, and the media on the importance of actually finding out who the candidates are, what they stand for, and what their experience is.
Todd Akin also won fair and square, and what he said is exactly what he stands for and what his party’s primary voters want. The GOP has established litmus tests: candidates must hate taxes and abortion with equal fervor or else they are somehow phony. So, they got what they wanted with Akin. It’s too bad that the GOP keeps nominated people like Akin, Sharron Angle, and Christine O’Donnell. This country is better off with two strong parties, and we don’t have that now.
Is this excessively rabid? It may be, Rich, and if so, do what you have to do. I’m just flabbergasted that in this day and age, Missouri GOP voters would prefer Akin.
Comment by Lakeview Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:13 pm
Cheryl44, I didn’t realize my tin foil hat had slipped. You can read my thoughts now? Oh wait, you must have been joking and forgot to label it sarcasm… I’m sure you are not nearly so naive and judgmental to label “most Republicans” as sharing Akin’s thoughts, much less accusing these same people of making up science to prove their points. Junk science and questionable pollsters/organizations can be found supporting Rs and Ds alike.
Akin’s original statement was reprehensible, but to take this as an indictment of Republicans and conservatives in general for some kind of thought-crime is ridiculous. You’re a better commenter than that.
Comment by Bun-Bun Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:17 pm
Republicans convince themselves of some crazy stuff.
They believe God is good. They *know* life begins at conception.
How do you reconcile pushing for policy that would prohibit a woman raped from terminating her pregnancy?
If you convince yourself that women who are “really” raped “almost never” get pregnant, then God has solved the problem for you.
And since these people *know* God loves them, God would never give them an ethical quandary with no easy solution.
So, anti-abortion activists device a faith-based solution. And women who get pregnant from being raped, well maybe they weren’t really raped.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:22 pm
The language approved by the GOP platform committee calls for a constitutional amendment outlawing abortion with no exceptions for cases of rape or incest.*
Pretending that Todd Akin’s views are an aberration within the Republican Party is unsupported by the facts.
– MrJM
* Sources: 1) http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/g-o-p-approves-strict-anti-abortion-language-in-party-platform/?smid=tw-thecaucus&seid=auto&pagewanted=print
2) http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/20/first-on-cnn-gop-prepares-tough-anti-abortion-platform/
3) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/todd-akin-gop-platform-rape_n_1818532.html
Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:27 pm
What wordslinger said. Akin is a longtime rep from a conservative district (Jim Talent’s old district). He’s long had extreme views–he basically believes all the government should do is national defense and “managing the economy,” and thinks that government student loans are socialism. And the conservative, evangelical-heavy Missouri GOP gives him a base.
Akin had a tailwind: not only did Claire McCaskill *help* him with pseudo-attack ads meant to boost him against his (also very conservative but much more ready for prime-time) opponents, Akin happened to run on a ballot that included a prayer amendment to the state constitution, which boosted his natural evangelical base.
Akin had some luck, in other words, but he’s not SLC by a longshot.
Comment by whetstone Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:30 pm
–Congreeman Yoder and his collegues and the skinny dipping…
Rep. Yoder was simply trying to walk on the Sea of Galilee (after a credit card had miraculously been turned into much wine) and the clothes were weighing him down.
As far as attacks on science, Louisiana’s new voucher program, backed by Gov. Jindal, allows taxpayer funds to go to schools that teach the Earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs are probably still alive.
The proof? The Loch Ness Monster, of course.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-26/news/32412766_1_voucher-plan-voucher-students-voucher-program
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:30 pm
@OneMan -
Its not that Republicans use the same twisted logic as Akin to justify their policy positions. Its that they share his belief that abortion should be illegal in the case of rape.
They can try to throw him under the bus, but from now until Election Day, that position hangs around their neck.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:39 pm
“Last year, Akin joined with GOP vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as two of the original co-sponsors of the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” a bill which, among other things, introduced the country to the bizarre term “forcible rape.””*
As if there is any other kind of rape. And as if the Hyde amendment didn’t already cover this issue.
One Man, that’s your party. Embrace it or leave it, but don’t pretend that this isn’t a mainstream GOP belief, that abortions should be illegal period, without exception.
Rape is rape. There is only one definition and there are no qualifiers. No woman should be forced to carry a fetus that was the result of rape, incest or one that threatens her health.
*http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/19/712251/how-todd-akin-and-paul-ryan-partnered-to-redefine-rape/
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 2:55 pm
it’s silly to write a comparison to Cohen. he’s small time. Akin and Ryan, big time players in the Republican party, believe that legitimate and forcible are words that can modify the word rape.
that is flat out horrifying.
and until yesterday Ryan said he believes that it should not be permissible for a woman who gets pregnant from a rape to get an abortion. but now we are supposed to forget about Ryan’s position because Romney has decided that he’s ok with abortion in the case of pregnancy from rape and Ryan says, yeah, me too.
what if Ryan had to become president? anything other than shining a bright light on the legitimate and forcible crowd….and that means all of the 225 some Republican Members of Congress who signed onto that bill about so called forcible rape…..is just a waste of time. they are that scary.
Comment by amalia Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:05 pm
Just last summer Akin set things ablaze when he claimed the basis of Liberalism is a hatred of God and that all Liberals hated God.
People were furious and called for him to drop out of the Primary. He stayed in the race and gave a non-apology apology for what he said. People forgot, he won.
I’m sure he’s counting on a repeat and people forgetting this gaffe before November.
Comment by transplant Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:09 pm
==Akin’s position on redefining rape for purposes of an allowable abortion is the same as Paul Ryan’s and is mainstream GOP thinking==
==One Man, that’s your party. Embrace it or leave it, but don’t pretend that this isn’t a mainstream GOP belief, that abortions should be illegal period, without exception.==
No. That is not mainstream GOP thinking and no matter how many times you and others repeat it as if it were fact, or call it out to scare people on push polls, doesn’t make your statements any more true. Noticing the people in all corners of the GOP big tent who are calling-begging- for Akin to step down and threatening what will happen to his campaign should he not, should give you your first clue. Akin is quite obviously a moron. Surprise. There are some in both parties.
Also, Think Progress is a good political left of center site. But it is not really the best source of solid information on “what Republicans think”.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:20 pm
I see that people are talking past each other - again - on a national issue. Surprise, surprise.
Akin said what he said while he was defending the GOP plank about banning all abortions, including for rape victims.
Full quote: “Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child”
It was his justification of his position which was somewhat unique to him. The underlying position on abortion bans, however, is party policy.
Try to differentiate between the two, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:31 pm
In the Missouri primary, Aiken was the nuttiest wing nut in a three wing nut race. The McCaskil folks breathed a sign of relief when it turned out that Aiken was the winner and the mainstream Missouri GOP began to sweat. I mean, so much better for a moderate Dem to run against the extremist Aiken. Well, it didn’t take long for Aiken to self destruct. The entire GOP is now so far off message it can’t even begin to steer the conversation back to Medicare, jobs, Obamacare or anything else. Not for a while anyway. Let’s face it, Aiken has close ties to Ryan. And the GOP today adopted a platform that mirrors the Aiken view. Yes, the fat is in the fire as they say. It would appear, to this commentator anyway, that the Scott Lee Cohen debacle doesn’t even approach the magnitude of the Aiken melt down.
Comment by Deep South Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:33 pm
Here’s my question: are Republicans unhappy with Akin’s beliefs, which line up nicely with the party platform and work of party leaders, or are they unhappy that they have become common knowledge and thus may cost Akin the election?
It seems to me that the party platform would be the thinking of the mainstream, yes?
Comment by Lakeview Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:34 pm
===Faithful to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence, we assert the inherent dignity and sanctity of all human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which
cannot be infringed. We support a human life
amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth
Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.
We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life.===
Responsa, there’s the language from the GOP Platform which was approved today, although apparently Romney didn’t have anything to do with it. I can’t seem to find where it allows for exceptions to the abortion ban for rape, incest or health of the mother. Maybe you can point me in the right direction. Otherwise I’ll assume the GOP would prohibit abortions in all cases, without exception.
And yes, Think Progress may not have been the most persuasive link, but they reported solid information that two of the original sponsors of the bill to create a new definition of “forcible rape” were Akin and Ryan. I suppose they think “nonforcible” rape is the so-called B—–s be lying defense.
The courageous souls in the GOP are calling for Akin’s resignation precisely because the party is so radical on abortion that they’d rather not talk about it. It’s the economy, stupid, right?
Well, women aren’t stupid. I hope every woman scrolls through this to page 52 and makes their own decision accordingly. It’s not my biased liberal opinion that the GOP would outlaw abortion in all cases with no exceptions. It’s the party platform.
http://gop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2008platform.pdf
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:47 pm
Will is on a role. That comment was of course very interesting. He also posted more concrete advice yesterday:
http://www.3rdcoastresearch.com/blog/first-rule-abortion-politics
Every candidate for office should read that post before saying anything at all about abortion.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 3:54 pm
47th — You linked to the 2008 GOP platform. The 2012 platform be different and there will be no final 2012 platform until it one is voted on at the convention. Can you hold on for another two weeks?
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 4:05 pm
I’ll hold off if you can get AP and the Boston Globe to hold off:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/08/21/gop-platform-takes-tough-stance-against-abortion/F175Qx17gaXyUjVehfmcFL/story.html
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 4:07 pm
The law does in fact recognize two kinds of rape: forcible rape and statutory rape (which is consensual but one of the couple is underage).
Comment by Ace Matson Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 4:40 pm
Lakeview: republicans are happy with akin’s beliefs, but they are unhappy with his justification(s) for, and/or explanation of, those beliefs. the conservative movement (which does seem to have skipped illinois in a cohesive form) has proven really effective at crafting a strong message and enforcing message discipline among its candidates. akin has violated both (his message was crap and he was undisciplined in that he didn’t follow the gop’s wedge message on this issue). democrats and liberals can’t do either (craft a strong message or enforce message discipline, despite the removal of cohen from the 2010 ballot), in illinois or elsewhere…
Comment by bored now Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 5:23 pm
bored now, you better check out the Tribune, which names the source of Akin’s justification for excluding rape victims from getting legal abortions and his beliefs on the female reproductive system.
Dr. Jack C. Willke is known, apparently, as the father of the pro-life movement. According to the Tribune, “Willke believes that trauma caused by a violent rape causes a woman’s reproductive system to shut down. He presents this belief as fact in educational materials, including a book about abortion.”
Willke is a former president of the National Right to Life Committee, so I’m going to guess Akin had no idea that repeating this gibbersish would be cause for concern on anyone’s part.
But the best part? In 2007, Mitt Romney named Dr. Willke as a surrogate for his run for the White House, saying “I’m proud to have the support of a man who has meant so much to the pro-life movement in this country.”
Check out the whole story:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-pn-doctor-behind-todd-akins-rape-theory-was-a-romney-surrogate-in-2007-20120821,0,5041483.story
So Akin can’t simply be dismissed as some bumpkin who used some unfortunate words in his argument. No wonder Romney, Ryan and the entire GOP establishent wants Akin to go away.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 6:21 pm
In their world a single celled creature can be a human being. Not an amoeba, not a protozoa, but a human being. They don’t believe in evolution, they deny the reality of climate change, and single cells are human beings with all the rights of real humans.
Comment by wishbone Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 6:51 pm
@Ace Matson -
I think that the reason that the GOP isn’t really relying on that argument is that they don’t want to make it seem like they believe that there’s nothing really criminal about a 25 year old man getting a 14 year old girl pregnant.
But, you go ahead and run that up the flagpole and let us know who salutes.
On a couple of technical matters: there is no federal definition of “forcible rape,” other than the definition used by the FBI. It excludes statutory rape. Atleast at the time of the bill’s drafting, it also excluded rapes where the victim could not legally consent because of drug or alcohol impairment, mental illness, or cognitive disability. It also excluded rapes where the victim was coerced by means other than the threat of force.
Also, on another technical point, statutory rape by definition is not “consensual” because a young girl cannot legally consent to having sex with an adult man. But you are correct that this is exactly the type of rape that Ryan and Akin hope to exclude from federal abortion coverage.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Aug 21, 12 @ 10:40 pm
There are a lot of ignorant and hateful comments in this section. Pro-Lifers believe that human life begins at conception and should be valued and protected — just the same as every born life is valued and protected. So, of course, we value fetuses that have resulted from rape and incest, just as we and the whole country value those children after they are born.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 2:44 am
Rich, You said “you all think somewhat more highly of fetuses than rape victims.” I believe in the sanctity of life from conception so I can not support abortion in the case of rape any more than I can support infanticide in the case of rape. That doesn’t mean that I don’t care for rape victims; rather it means that I do not think that killing the fetus is a just solution.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 2:54 am
Well, then, why aren’t Ryan and Akin pushing for support for rape victims, such as coverage for their medical costs, changes in custody rules (if a woman is raped and keeps the baby, her rapist has a legal right to see the child - would you want to hand your child off to your rapist once a week?), support for adoption? Oh, wait, those things would require tax dollars, and the only thing worse than abortion is taxes! Right? I never here anti-abortion politicians talk about how to reduce the demand and how to take care of the babies once they are born.
That, Anon, is why many of us are left with the impression that the GOP thinks more highly of fetuses than rape victims.
Comment by Lakeview Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 6:50 am
===Rich, You said “you all think somewhat more highly of fetuses than rape victims.”===
Um, no I did not. Take that back.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 7:07 am
Rape cases are used by pro choicers as a tactic to keep the pro-lifers at bay. It is a terrible thing to think about to have to carry a child concieved by rape to term and there is no way to avoid that. But it is the pro-choice crowd that use this tactic.
The real problem is the courts have essentially declared when life begins.(which is what most of the justices in Roe v. Wade wanted to avoid). If it is a life, you cannot take it regardless of the circumstances in which it came to being. No person wants to tell a woman to carry the living result of a rape for 9 months, then have to decide to raise the child or put it up for adoption. But the fact is, pregnancy due to rape are a very, very small amount of the total number of abortions.
Pro-lifers would help themselves out a lot, if we would spend less time protesting, campaigning, and lobbying, and more time providing resources for like health care funds, counseling, and access to adoption agencies.
Comment by the Patriot Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 8:06 am
Pro-lifers would help themselves out a lot, if we would spend less time protesting, campaigning, and lobbying, and more time providing resources for like health care funds, counseling, and access to adoption agencies.
Thank you, Patriot. I’m not sure that anyone thinks that abortion is a good thing, but a child should not be a punishment. Fetuses turn into babies who need health care, education, and social support. An uninsured birth is expensive, as is adoption and care/education of a child with special needs.
I always thought that the missed opportunity of Sarah Palin’s VP candidacy is that we could have had real discussions about real options for pregnant teenagers or people expecting and raising special needs children, but we didn’t get that. Apparently, you’re supposed to get a reality TV show. Yikes!
Comment by Lakeview Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 9:28 am
I take it back. I see that your were quoting Will Caskey. Sorry.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Aug 22, 12 @ 2:22 pm