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* UPDATED x1 * NRA wants “overdrive” against all of Chicago’s agenda

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* The NRA’s Todd Vandermyde wants his group’s supporters to retaliate against Chicago over concealed carry. Vandermyde made his demand in a column about last week’s House floor debate on the issue…

During the debate on the carry amendments we saw Colleges and others try to make it impossible to carry in public, but then, we also saw 68 (there were 67 votes with one of our good guys out for a medical reason) votes for our shall issue, preemptive carry amendment. That sent shock waves through the building as the City of Chicago has now gone into panic mode as we are now 3 votes shy of a super majority to pass a bill. And those votes are out there.

That vote was significant. The City is already trying to intimidate some of the votes that showed up on the bill. And now it is time for us to go into overdrive. Any bill that is a legislative initiative of the City of Chicago, we should oppose. And any downstate or suburban rep that supports us should vote “Present” on all the City bills going forward. They want more red light cameras? Vote “no.” They want special treatment to do X or Y? Vote “no” or “present” and leave them with their 35 votes that are not a majority in the House, nor enough to pass ANY bill.

*** UPDATE *** You may have noticed that the Illinois Review link is now broken. The cached version is here.

Vandermyde was upset that IR used a column he posted to another website as if it was its own. His e-mail to IL Review…

I wrote the update on the Carry bill for Illinis Carry. Not for Illinois review.

You make it appear as if I worte it for a column for You for your publication. I did not and ask that you take it down.

Further more I see no attribution to where I posted it, and I only posted it in what should be the members section of Illinois Carry.

Your copy and paste style of reporting is missleading and I ask that you take it down. it was not intended for your site nor is it fair use.

You stole my comments for use on your website, as if I am some participant in your efforts of Illinois review — I am not.

[ *** End Of Update *** ]

* Meanwhile, here’s my syndicated newspaper column…

Nobody ever really knows what’s going through Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan’s head except for Madigan himself.

So, the actual purpose of two highly choreographed gun control and pension reform debates last week ordered up by Madigan weren’t completely clear to anyone.

That’s by design, of course. Madigan (D-Chicago) prefers to keep people in the dark until he’s ready to make his final move.

But I did hear one theory from a Democrat last week that made quite a bit of sense, at least for a while.

Last Tuesday’s hours-long debate on numerous aspects of concealed carry that ended with far more discombobulated confusion than a clear resolution may have been intended to inject some chaos into the equation and convince members that what’s needed is some real leadership forward. And that leadership, of course, would come from Madigan.

If nothing else, that debate gave House members a good education about how far apart the two sides on gun control are regarding concealed carry.

In the most infamous example, state Rep. Jim Sacia (R-Pecatonica) used a way-over-the-top analogy to explain to Chicagoans why their gun violence problem shouldn’t cause them to “blame the rest of us” by forcing everyone to disarm.

Sacia’s analogy — “You folks in Chicago want me to get castrated because your families are having too many kids” — enraged several Chicago-area legislators but did serve a purpose.

Thanks to Sacia, Chicagoans discovered the intensity and breadth of the divide. And it even helped that Sacia inadvertently confirmed all those liberal pop psychology theories about how, um, “overly enthusiastic” gun owners associate their weapons with their private parts and aren’t all that fond of poor people.

And liberal proponents of super-tight restrictions on concealed carry made it shockingly clear to conservatives that some Chicagoans feel more in danger being around folks (like those very conservatives) who are vetted and licensed to carry concealed weapons in public than they are around dangerous criminals.

The only way to bridge this huge divide on gun control is through strong leadership from above, or at least that’s the theory.

But just two days after that long day of gun debates, the wheels seemed to fall off.

If anybody else’s proposal had been shot down in the House by a vote of 66-1, with only the sponsor voting for it and all Republicans taking a pass because it was so “out there,” the ridicule would have been piled high on the sponsor.

And if that same sponsor saw all of his other proposals die a similar fate on the same day — with one getting just two votes, another getting three and another getting five — well, the sponsor probably would have been considered a rank amateur.

But that’s exactly what happened Thursday to Madigan, the supposed master of three-dimensional political chess.

Apparently sending a political message, Madigan ran four pension reform amendments that were so radioactively harsh that nobody wanted to go near them. Instead of prompting a debate, few rose to speak. Instead of putting the Republicans on the spot, they refused to cast any votes.

Instead of getting members to think about the serious pension-funding problem, Madigan gave them an easy out via a cartoonish charade. Instead of convincing them that his leadership was needed, they rejected his ideas out of hand.

And the speaker’s heavy-handed, top-down management will undoubtedly continue.

Madigan’s spokesman told reporters last week that a request by state Rep. Jack Franks (D-Woodstock) for a special committee to take testimony and openly debate pension reform was the “craziest idea” because the House has held numerous committee hearings, only to see the Republicans withdraw bills and duck votes.

Back in the day, before former House Speaker Lee Daniels changed the rules, members could file amendments that went straight to the floor without first having to be approved by a committee. The process was sometimes abused, but members had infinitely more input into issues than they do now.

Was state government somehow worse back then? Hardly. So, why not let ’em have their say?

It probably won’t work, though. Even back in the “good old days,” big, important and complicated issues were almost always worked out behind closed doors.

But if and when a real debate with truly open rules on amendments fails, then members will come running back to Daddy Madigan for instructions as they always do. And in the unlikely prospect that it works, then maybe Madigan could learn something as well.

* And NBC5 takes a look at Rep. Sacia’s “facts”…

In fact, the Chicago metropolitan area only has the sixth highest birth rate in Illinois, with 51 babies per 1,000 females between 15 and 50. Even if Sacia was trying to single out African-Americans, his analogy falls apart, because the nationwide black birthrate is 61.7 — lower than the whites of Southern Illinois.

Here are the top five:

Marion-Herrin 64
Danville 57
Decatur 56
Rockford 54
Galesburg 52

If we have an overpopulation problem in Illinois, it’s the men in the southern part of the state who need to regulated, not the men in Chicago.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 8:37 am

Comments

Downstate has the highest birthrates? Never let the facts get in the way of a good stereotype.

Comment by reformer Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 8:46 am
There are 2 “Madigans” you should fear most;

The Madigan that isolates you, and lets everyone “know” that you are a target of his (Blago)

The Madigan you have no clue what he is doing, and you are waiting for the “other foot” to drop.

Unlike the H&SGP who send two-page letters to appease members, but have to spend time … explaining … a two-page letter, Madigan goes about his business, unfazed by the “I have no idea what he is doing” or “that makes no sense” until it DOES make sense, and others are left holding the bag, behind the 8-ball, or whatever analogy you want … unless it comes from Rep. Sacia…

If I were any and all Mushrooms, I would take pause at all these “votes” and all these “measurements of temperature”.

We all might not be able to out-think, in Real Time, Speaker Madigan, but those having to work with the Speaker better “guess” that end game as soon as possible, before they find themselves in a place they never thought they could get in, or a place with no exit but surrender.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 8:51 am
Todd’s threat is interesting. Wonder what would happen when people in Chicago started saying the same thing? Downstate needs Chicago dollars more than Chicago needs downstate.

Want to block Chicago bills? Fine. Chicago will block anything that benefits downstate. See how that works out for you.

Not to digress, but until this year, Todd always seemed like one of the calm ones. Not sure what happened, but from his comparing Superintendent McCarthy to Bull O’Connor to his threats like this, it seems like he’s gone off the deep end.

Somebody ought to tell the guy that he won, and that if he calms down he’s going to get a good bill or the Court will do the job for him.

Time to start acting like a winner.

Comment by Skeeter Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:08 am
Being a downstater, if I have to get castrated because of some remarks Sacia made, I’m going to be pretty upset.

In a more serious note, if Sacia was making racial claims he needs to be called out. I’m going to actually guess this was more just an ignorant man making a very stupid and in appropriate comment on the House Floor. I know it was an internet sensation, especially among the right wing folk, but so was “let my people go” and neither was productive or served a purpose except for making a very small few feel better. Gee, hard to figure out why the Republicans can’t win in Illinois.

Comment by Ahoy! Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:16 am
This is the time for the south to pick its battle and let MJM and Chicago know that until Conceal Carry passes no other votes will either. I do not understand a bunch of men and women being bullied by a leader that demands total submission. Does anybody in Springfield have the guts to stand up to him? It appears not.

Comment by Nieva Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:21 am
Ok, I understand the concept of Southern Illinois is flexible. Souther Illinois is a state of mind as they say about Makanda. Many people consider that Southern Illinois begins about 30 miles north of where they live. I am willing to admit that Marion-Herrin are in Southern Illinois although there are people who would challenge that, see Makanda. Much of the rest of the list while not meeting my personal criteria for Southern Illinois would not cause me to object. But Rockford. O no. No. No. No.

Comment by Bigtwich Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:25 am
It rarely pays to make arguments based on emotions, not facts. However, Skeeter’s point that Chicagoans should block anything that benefits downstate is rather silly, given the fact that this is exactly what has been happening with the gun laws for years.

Comment by lincolnlover Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:27 am
Sacia didn’t make a racial point he made a geographical one Rep Will Davis made it racial and NBC ran with it and attributed it to Sacia. Looser gun laws make more sense downstate then in the city or suburbs. Folks downstate have longer emergency response time than in urban area and are usually more isolated. The GOP should allow Chicago/ cook to keep the gun laws they want and let downstate have the laws they want.

Comment by Fed up Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:33 am
===The GOP should allow Chicago/ cook to keep the gun laws they want and let downstate have the laws they want.===

It’s not the GOP, its the NRA, with the court order in hand thatis pushing for Chicago and the suburbs, and the entire state, be the same in regards to conceal carry.

This issue is more about the 2nd Amendment than party lines, just look at those supporting and those opposing. Looks Bi-Partisan …

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:38 am
Can’t we compromise a bit here?

If Todd is going to attack Chicago, a Chicago that fights back is going to trump all! Downstate, Western Illinois, Central Illinois, universities (U of I, NIU, WIU, SIU, SIU-E, EIU)and other initiatives will dry up like a desert. Look, I have lived here almost 40 years. Downstate relies on Chicago. Downstate would be South Dakota or Iowa without Chicago. Todd is perhaps just carving out an extreme from which he can compromise, but boy that’s a risky extreme to take.

Just to be clear I don’t live in Chicago and never have and never will. But this is a boneheaded move.

Comment by mongo Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:39 am
Fed Up, the technical term for Sacia’s remark is “dog whistle.”

Lincoln Lover, other than guns, when has Chicago blocked anything from downstate? Let’s be honest — most of your road projects make “the bridge to nowhere” look like the Kennedy Expressway.

Comment by Skeeter Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:40 am
Nieva, the “south” doesn’t have the votes to do that.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:42 am
“Folks downstate have longer emergency response time than in urban area and are usually more isolated.”

More isolated certainly, but police response times in high population areas can be pretty glacial.

Comment by titan Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:47 am
===the technical term for Sacia’s remark is “dog whistle.”===

Exactly.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:51 am
GManJim’s castration line reminded us of a comment from the drill sgt in basic
“Son, your gun is in pants, your weapon is what will save your life and let you complete the mission.” We think the GMan was thinking closer to home — so to speak
We are surprised no one has made a bigger deal out of the BizManKay Nazi comment…maybe he confused too many — a frequent occurence.
Meanwhile TV needs to reread the court case. The judge asked for reasonable rules for carry loaded weapons outside the home…the word “carry” aint’there.
What would be comparable to yelling fire in the theater (the 1A test) Gun free zones? No drunks? Insurance? All of that and more.
BTW Beachwood Reporter had a great story on how the 2Aers block all the research showing homes with guns are more dangerous, suicide prone etc.

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:54 am
=Downstate would be South Dakota or Iowa without Chicago.=

I’ve been to South Dakota. I know South Dakota. Illinois you are no South Dakota.

South Dakota is a great state!

Comment by Leave a Light on George Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:00 am
You post something on the Internet, someone will find it if they want to. That includes Facebook, too.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:13 am
It seemed to me that Sacia’s comments were not meant to be taken literally but rather metaphorically. Along the lines of you want me to stop drinking because you’re an alcoholic.

Comment by ShermanStateEmployee Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:15 am
===You post something on the Internet, someone will find it if they want to. That includes Facebook, too. ===

True, but to act as if it is an article is simply misleading. Not to mention the cut and paste someone does to take their words for their own site.

Besides, what was so inflammatory? That CCW supporters should stop backing bills they marginally support until those who intro the bills start to support a CCW bill? Thats inflammatory? but not the rhetoric about how gun owners are crazy nazi’s and crap like that.

Comment by USMC Janitor Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:16 am
“Downstate would be South Dakota or Iowa without Chicago.”

and that is bad, how? Check out there budget surpluses (!!!!!) and their unemployment rates (!!!!) and then compared both those stats to the Illinois stats.

Comment by Bud Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:21 am
=== You post something on the Internet, someone will find it if they want to. That includes Facebook, too. ===

That may be true, but after looking at the post, Todd’s displeasure with Illinois Review is very valid for a number of reasons.

Comment by Just Observing Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:22 am
what a cluster–fluster. a couple of days wasted thrashing around over failing amendments going nowhere. my best guess is, it will be fodder for attack mailers in the future. “rep bletzer had a chance to vote for X, Y, and Z, and voted present! (or voted no)” the conversation veers of into a discussion of….pensions?…..guns?…no, regional birth rates.

Comment by langhorne Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:27 am
CFS — the word carry ain’t there —

Ah you lost me there. The word carry appears many times in the decision.

Comment by Todd Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:28 am
=== but not the rhetoric about how gun owners are crazy nazi’s===

The only person to trigger Godwin’s Law on the House floor recently was GOP state Rep. Dwight Kay, about the House rules.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:28 am
I think CFS meant concealed not carry.

Comment by Leave a Light on George Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:44 am
I watched the debates and have seen the clip of Rep. Sacia a few more times. It’s important to note that it’s an analogy…. Where Sacia failed was in leaving out the words “It’s as if” (the birthrate were too high) when making the comment. As usual though, someone saw the opportunity to blow it out of proportion and turn it against him.

Mr. Miller, although we often disagree I have always respected your opinion…however, Sacia was not equating guns with genitals and we both know it. His comment, I’m sure, was intended to grab some attention. He could have just as easily said that Chicago has potholes and expects the rest of the state to construct new roads…but that wouldn’t have caught nearly as much attention. All of the folks that claim they’re offended by such must stay at home and locked in a closet. I can go to the gas station this afternoon and find plenty of things that are more offensive than Sacia’s analogy.

mongo: Being from the southern end of the state, I’m not sure that being like SD is such a bad thing…. 2011 unemployment was 4.7% (vs 9.9% in IL at the same time) and CNBC ranked them as the 7th best state for business in 2010.

Comment by milk4me Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:48 am
–I think CFS meant concealed not carry.–

You have a CFS decoder ring? Please share, lol.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:48 am
===His comment, I’m sure, was intended to grab some attention.===

And he’s getting it, so stop whining.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:49 am
How is that a fair use violation? News reporting, teaching etc is covered. Agree should of been cited, or maybe a link if it was available, but that’s it. The letter is news.

Comment by M O'Malley Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:50 am
Sure, a 68-year-old Illinois politician had no idea what he was saying. It was just a random analogy that he picked out of thin air.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:52 am
“I can go to the gas station this afternoon and find plenty of things that are more offensive than Sacia’s analogy”

Great to see you view speeches on the House floor to be the same as conversation at the gas station.

Some of us would hope for a bit more from our elected officials.

Comment by Skeeter Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:55 am
I actually like Iowa and South Dakota. But I like the “whole” Illinois much better. Carbondale and Effingham and Normal and Sterling can’t compete with Oak Park, Evanston, Cary, Schaumburg, Geneva, Algonquin, Homewood, Highland Park, Barrington…and Chicago. But together, all 14 communities are better than they are apart.

My remarks were only intended to show that if we divide ourselves, we lose that which makes us unique. My apologies to all from Iowa, the best wrestling state in the union, and all from South Dakota, home of the magnificent Mount Rushmore.

Comment by mongo Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 10:59 am
Mr. Vandermyde might enjoy greater success if he could break down some stereotypes about gun owners. That email to the Illinois Review isn’t helping. Am I old-fashioned to think a complaint of misattribution ought to be written grammatically and in complete sentences?

Comment by Yossarian Lives Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:01 am
===How is that a fair use violation? News reporting, teaching etc is covered.===

You can’t just reprint the whole thing. That’s the violation. And no attribution just compounds the problem. And making it look like he wrote a column for IR makes it even worse.

Are you blind or something?

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:03 am
I don’t know. I have been supporting CCW here for a long time. Having lived in other states (CA, TX, Washington, and even WI) the world does not end when CCW is enacted. I am out in the burbs in Will county and avoid the City mostly. but listening to their drivel is just sad.

Anyway, I called my rep and emailed asking them to vote present or no on any bill that benefits Chicago or Cook county alone. Why should he vote yes for that? while they continue to act like they are soo different from anyone else or that their citizens are so out of control that someone that jumps through background checks, finger printing, training, tests, etc is somehow going to shoot up schools/neighborhoods. Personally I am sick of their ignorance of the topics and want my rep to hold their feet to the fire. Why should my family in Cook County be kept from getting a license or have it at the discretion of Tom Dart… Screw that.

Its a valid tactic in politics. Hell if taking someone’s words out of context or making the house vote on a bunch of amendments that have no chance of actually becoming law just for election purposes is valid then this sure is! I say do it.

Comment by RonOglesby Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:06 am
Re: Illinois Review’s appropriation of NRA language without crediting the source

Let’s call it what it is –

PLAGIARISM: The act of appropriating the literary composition of another, or parts or passages of his writings, or the ideas or language of the same, and passing them off as the product of one’s own mind. [Black’s Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed. ].

Comment by old dog Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:18 am
Madigan was establishing the rough boundaries of the playing field for both sides, and for Dems, giving them a political out on any given tough choice they might eventually have to make in compromise.

The GOPers read it as a purely political game move, with an unclear end game, and refused to play. They took the course of least risk on all sides. Most of them would have been better off voting yes on whatever they supported, to be able to say “at least we tried,” making it easier for them to eventually compromise as well. Madigan tried to help them, and they opted out. He seems to be using the same tactic on gun bills.

The public’s not interested in in-house game play. They also say they want bi-partisan solutions. We’ll see who’s responsive to that request.

Comment by walkinfool Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:39 am
Flaherty, Break it down for us. How many votes would it take to bring the state and Chicago to a standstill if the south made the attempt? Are you saying that we are at the mercy of Chicago and MJM?

Comment by Nieva Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:49 am
Note to NBC5. Our rates are higher because we have the only hospital with obstetrics in southeastern Illinois. Mothers drive for miles to give birth in our hospitals, so your quick statistics are nothing but bunk.

Comment by Downstate Illinois Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:51 am
Question–is concealed carry the number one issue in downstate Illinois? If so, then perhaps Vandermyde’s strategy is appropriate. If not, risking retaliation from Chicago is just plain stupid.

Comment by G'Kar Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 11:53 am
G’Kar, I doubt that’s much of a concern for Todd (and rightly so) - he’s here to get a good CCW bill implemented.

Comment by Ken_in_Aurora Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 12:09 pm
Todd

If you really want to apply leverage. introduce a bill to repeal the variances given to MWRD. Even MJM doesn’t want to deal with that issue. They can do it to PROTECT the environment.

For those that don’t know Metropolitan water Reclamation District in Chicago discharges the least treated and most toxic waste directly into the Sanitary Ship Canal. Counting primarily only on a few settlement tanks and dilution. You see they are permitted to do this by variances to the law that lets them operate at standards below what any other municipal sewer is allowed in the entire state. The primarily untreated sewer effluent goes into the IL river where it pollutes drinking supplies then to the Mississippi river and down to the gulf where it contributes to algae blooms.
These variances can be repealed by the legislature. No one wants to touch it because to make MWRD comply with the same laws as Springfield and the rest of the state would bankrupt the entire city and quadruple sewer rates. However there is no arguing it is an ongoing environmental tragedy permitted to happen by the state government.

Comment by Mason born Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 12:10 pm
With apologies to Moe Green:

“Yeah, let’s talk business, Todd. First of all, you’re all done. The Sportsman’s Caucus don’t even have that kind of muscle anymore. The Godfather’s sick, right? You’re getting chased out of the suburbs by Madigan and the other Families. What do you think is going on here? You think you can come to my legislature and take over? I talked to Madigan - I can make a deal with him on CCW, and still keep my home rule!”

Although Moe Green ended up with a bullet in his eye, I think Todd’s strategy is all bluster and while he might find some support on a symbolic vote or two, he won’t be able to hold his coalition together long enough to win.

Hostage taking is not a good strategy, neither is nihilism.

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 12:18 pm
I am not blind Rich, in fact 20/20 last eye exam. I said it should of been quoted, or linked too. If there was no link, you are telling me that it could never be reproduced?

Comment by M O'Malley Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 12:40 pm
- milk4me -,

Sometimes making news, by using Dopey analogies, deserve the scrutiny that its getting. “Thems the rules.”

===How many votes would it take to bring the state and Chicago to a standstill if the south made the attempt? Are you saying that we are at the mercy of Chicago and MJM? ===

I can count, and the votes are not there, even if you are bi-partisan in this “South” idea.

Are you next going to explain how Quinn carried only 4 Counties?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 12:42 pm
–Are you next going to explain how Quinn carried only 4 Counties?–

Bit of trivia I came across recently:

When it was first formed (out of Madison County) in 1821, Pike County included everything north of a southern line formed from where the Illinois drains into the Mississippi east to the Kankakee and the Indiana border.

Now that was one county worth winning.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:05 pm
===Are you saying that we are at the mercy of Chicago and MJM?===

You’re just figuring this out?

lol

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:17 pm
47 — in the words of rich miller; bite me. Go look at the roll cal on rahm’s red light speed camera bill roll call. The down state guys put it over the top. They could have killed it. And it was a concern to the city, I know the called me ranting.

If the city wants to screw with people who may vote for the bill, there are ways to push back. They are not omnipotent (sp)

Comment by Todd Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:38 pm
===They are not omnipotent (sp) ===

Believe it or not, you used the correct spelling, Todd.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:51 pm
Yea wroking off the ipad can be a pain with this keyboard

And for the others I pounded that IR email out before my first diet coke of the morning

Comment by Todd Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:55 pm
===Yea wroking off the ipad can be a pain with this keyboard===

Buy a BlueTooth keyboard.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 1:56 pm
===Pike County included everything north of a southern line formed from where the Illinois drains into the Mississippi east to the Kankakee and the Indiana border.===

I think, that would be considered … “Arkansas”.

It might take you a week to go, vote, and return back home. Unless a good Precict Captain got them to vote ‘Absentee’, but I digress…

Cool stuff, - wordslinger -

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 2:56 pm
I don’t know where the Marion-Herrin number comes in at 64 per 1000, but it works out this way
Williamson county has 66,622 people of which 50.5% are female 33,664. That would only give you a 34 per 1,000 in the entire county. Marion has 8,251 females or a birth rate of 8.25 per 1,000 and Herrin has 6,595 females or a birth rate of 6.96 per 1,000. So then 8.25 plus 6.96 equals 15.21 even rounding up to 16 per thousand is no where close to the 64 number and these numbers came from the U.S Census Bureau web site. That’s not even taking into account those over 65 and those under 10. Everyone may want to recheck those numbers. Just for accuracy.

Comment by The Ghost in The Darkness Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:02 pm
I checked the Chicago city and it works out to 1394 per 1000 females. Again not taking out those over 65 and under 10. As those numbers are not there.

Comment by The Ghost in The Darkness Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:09 pm
Going to make sure my representatives know that I want them to vote “present” on any bill that Chicago wants.

Comment by TTIN Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:16 pm
- The Ghost in The Darkness -,

Good stuff.

When you can tell me how fast a train, leaving Chicago to Boston gets to Cleveland in 9 hours, then post that too.

That question always got me…

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:18 pm
===Going to make sure my representatives know that I want them to vote “present” on any bill that Chicago wants.===

Well that will help. If you are downstate, and your Representative is a Republican, his vote is marginalized anyway … but, if it makes you feel better, let ‘em know; “No to Chicago!”

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:21 pm
You fools just wait and see what Todd can do,then just sit back in awe!!

Comment by TTIN Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:22 pm
Don’t give a crap what you think,willy.

Comment by TTIN Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:23 pm
“Don’t give a crap what you think,willy.”

Awesome that four year olds are now posting here.

Comment by Skeeter Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:26 pm
In that case, I apologize, Todd. If your relationship to Diet Coke is anything like my relationship to coffee, your poor spelling and grammar are richly excused. Next time, chug first and write later. Thanks for clarifying!

Comment by Yossarian Lives Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:29 pm
===Don’t give a crap what you think,willy.===

What is scary is that TTIN thinks that is going to bother me.

It’s actually cute. don’t try to argue your point, just say,…

“Don’t give a crap what you think,willy.”

Maybe … just maybe … you don’t care …or maybe you do, and you can’t use your “words” to explain.

I understand. You just keep posting away…

“Sometimes it’s to be thought a fool …”

Eh, TTIN

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 3:51 pm
- Todd -

Awesome! Way. To. Go!

IllinoisReview.com tries to be relevent, and they have their audience and “to each theier own”.

The way they try to gain steam in the context of the narrative, is this “attributing” like taking your words and allowing the readers to think they are for IllinoisReview.com.

Way to go, standing up for yourself.

What is sloppy work on their part give a false impression at times to trying to be a part of the narrative and moving the agenda forward. Sometimes, that may be true, but its the time it is NOT that is noticed with a brighter light.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 4:00 pm
TTIN, go away. Shoo!

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 5:18 pm
chicago politicians always try to put lipstick on a pig or wings to make it fly but there is another part of the state where is not considered the murder capital of the us they pass feel good laws to make them selves feel good

Comment by county chairman Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 7:13 pm
Thanks willie

Comment by Todd Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 7:38 pm
I think Sacia’s comments were rhetorical. What kind of nerdy news agency takes it so literally that they fact check the quote.

Comment by Fred Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 8:23 pm
Rhetorical? Maybe so. But if that comment is any measure of his rhetorical ‘potency’, let’s just say noone need bother with castrating him… Rhetorically speaking, of course.

Comment by Happy Returns Monday, Mar 4, 13 @ 9:36 pm
Oswego Willy- actually it only takes 6.5 to 7.5 hours according to AMTRAK. I think you misunderstand I’m pro gun. Was trying to use someones distorted figures to show that Marion-Herrin does not in fact have a 64 per 1000 birth rate. The Rep Sacia was right why does the rest of the state have to pay for the mistakes of Chicago? Would i like to see a CCW? Yes but it will be so hard that no one can ever get one.

Comment by The Ghost in The Darkness Tuesday, Mar 5, 13 @ 9:45 am