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ISRA: Gun owners really don’t put much credence in what the Newtown parents have to say

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* From an Illinois State Rifle Association “special alert”…

Like all people of good conscience, gun owners were appalled at that the crimes that took place in Newtown.

Nevertheless, gun owners really don’t put much credence in what the Newtown parents have to say.

After all, having a child murdered doesn’t automatically make one an expert in violent crime or an expert in the U.S. Constitution or an expert in the shooting sports. Likewise, being the parent of a murdered child does not give one the right to demand that lawful gun owners give up their constitutional rights just to bring closure to that parent’s grief. No, we gun owners will not be supporting any proposals to ban our guns, limit our magazines, tax our rights, snoop deeply into our backgrounds, or register us like sex offenders. As we have said many times before, we will not accept responsibility for what happened in Newtown because it is not our responsibility to accept. Obama, Biden and the rest of the gun-grabbing crew needs to understand well that our resolve is set in stone.

* By the way, ISRA Executive Director Richard Pearson claimed this in an e-mail sent to members early this morning…

I want to share with you very important news (actually, I’m overjoyed): the Illinois State Rifle Association has reached a milestone by going over the 27,000 member mark. Thank you to all of you who have joined or renewed their membership. To overcome the entrenched anti-gunners and to achieve our goals in Illinois can only be achieved with a large and active membership. We must continue to grow, and we must continue to recruit new members. The outcome of what happens legislatively in Springfield is directly proportional of the power the organization has – we are not there yet, but we are definitely gaining strength.

Discuss.

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 9:57 am

Comments

Is the ISRA intent on getting moderates to hate gun owners?

I’m trying to figure out what they are trying to accomplish.

Why even mention Newton?

Does this kind of release raise cash? What’s the upside?

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:01 am
By the way, the ISRA release could simply say “We at the ISRA refuse to learn from experience. We don’t care what has happened in the past. We will never learn.”

Since that’s really what they are saying.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:02 am
Argh. There’s a right way to go about this- “while Newtown was tragic, none of the new proposals would have prevented it” or something along those lines. But attacking the parents? Come on….

Comment by Anon Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:03 am
Whoever writes the ISRA stuff only listens to the voices in his head telling him that everyone’s out to get him.

There’s a reason these guys never won anything in the GA.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:03 am
[H]aving a child murdered doesn’t automatically make one an expert in violent crime or an expert in the U.S. Constitution or an expert in the shooting sports.

And a gun fetish doesn’t automatically grant any expertise in those areas either.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:04 am
So if having a child murdered by guns doesn’t make your opinion on guns more valid than anyone elses then why does a gun owners opinion on the 2nd amendment count for more than opinions of citizens who don’t own guns? Why do 27000 people get to dictate the definition of “a well regulated militia” for 13 million?

Comment by hisgirlfriday Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:05 am
Nevertheless, gun owners really don’t put much credence in what the Newtown parents have to say.

We understand many gun owners are not 2A Whack Jobs….but it seems even if ther is a handful of gun oweners who think this way everyone should be terrified and everyone ought to want to know where the guns are….ask no less than what the state demands of other perverts

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:11 am
After reading these continuous paranoid and inane releases from the ISRA, maybe it should be assumed that anyone who is a member of this organization should automatically fail a background check.

Comment by AFSCME Steward Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:14 am
===Why do 27000 people get to dictate the definition of “a well regulated militia” for 13 million?===

Excellent point hisgirlfriday. Since there are 35000 members of the Retired Teachers Association, the GA should be shaking in their boots.

Comment by Darienite Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:19 am
Gun groups are literally shooting themselves in the foot. As an non member of any firearm group, pro or con, I am appalled at how both sides use the dead for thier cause.

Comment by FormerParatrooper Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:19 am
Worst tin ear ever. Horrible strategy.

They’re firing up base for now, but NRA and ISRA lose in the long run.

Comment by just sayin' Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:24 am
I hope there is a special place in hell for people like Pearson who are so blinded by their zealotry that they can’t empathize with the parents of those neddlessly murdered children in Newtown…

Comment by Loop Lady Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:29 am
>>>>>I hope there is a special place in hell for people like Pearson who are so blinded by their zealotry that they can’t empathize with the parents of those neddlessly murdered children in Newtown…

The first line quoted was:
“Like all people of good conscience, gun owners were appalled at that the crimes that took place in Newtown. “

Comment by John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:36 am
Wow, an almost sociopathic lack of empathy couched in faulty rhetoric, How can they only have 27,000 members?

Comment by Coyote Chris Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:37 am
JJJS, that’s like starting off with “With all due respect. . . ”

Starting that way does not give ISRA cover for them saying things that are borderline psychotic.

The ISRA really doesn’t think that victims have a interest? That they have an important perspective? Or that humans have a capacity to learn from prior mistakes?

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:39 am
Nobody really believes the 2A Whack Jobs have 27,000 paying members…like to see an audit…sounds like a bluff to us.

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:42 am
Responsible advocates don’t just blurt out whatever immediate reactions pop into their heads. A little thoughtful consideration and editing would go a long way for the ISRA.

Just take a breath once in a while!

Comment by walkinfool Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:45 am
JJJ: But not so appalled that they’ll give up any right to arm themselves anyway they see fit…as Rich says: Bite me…

Comment by Loop Lady Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:48 am
I hear this a lot from leaders of these groups; victims of gun violence don’t have the right to speak on this topic. But, this “being the parent of a murdered child does not give one the right” goes beyond the most callous statement I could imagine.
Sick, really sick.

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:52 am
–The outcome of what happens legislatively in Springfield is directly proportional of the power the organization has –

How’s that been working out for you over the years?

Give these guys credit for knowing their readers. Give them what they want, and they’ll send a check.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:57 am
Walkinfool

I couldn’t agree more.

This is probably the dumbest thing they have ever written. The real stupidity of it is there is absolutely no reason to send it out. There is no proposal in the IL House that has a thing to do with Newton and nothing moving at the Federal level that has anything to do about it. The ISRA is an affiliated member of the NRA if the NRA can’t get them to act like anything other than ALex Jones want to be’s than from this NRA member it is time to pull their Affiliation. Even if there was a need to post this there is a way to say the same thing without sounding like a giant A word Rich wouldn’t want me to use.

Comment by Mason born Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:58 am
This is why we need political parties and not just interest groups.

NRA and ISRA do better - institutionally - when they “lose,” ie they are on the defensive. It gins up their membership base and cash contributions, even if from a tiny fraction of the population.

If people feel their gun rights are safe, it’s a membership disaster for ISRA.

I suppose political parties may win by “losing” on occasion too, but not to the same degree nor extent as these outside ideological interest groups. Why should the IGs compromise or send out “moderate” mailers? Their personal incentives point in the opposite direction. Even if ISRA toned down its rhetoric, I’m not gonna join up or write them a check, and they know it.

Comment by ZC Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:00 am
Darn that mother who started Mother’s Against Drunk Driving after her daughter was killed by a drunk driver. That didn’t make her an authority on drunk driving. However did she manage to get an organization going that managed to get laws changed all across the country that resulted in an almost 50% decrease in drunk driving accidents? That’s just not right.

Comment by Aldyth Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:01 am
To hell with the politics. What appalling human beings.

Comment by WestSider Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:06 am
Compared to some of the gun groups out there ISRA was being moderate and sensitive with these comments. Just yesterday I came across an attack on one of the Newtown dads that went after his legal problems and complained that only after his son was killed was he finally able to find a job, as a lobbyist. Some outfit called Connecticut Carry.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:07 am
ditto, walkinfool.

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:07 am
has Todd ever publicly disavowed the ISRA tactics like this one? because these kinds of comments from the ISRA are very damaging.

Comment by Amalia Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:21 am
As one of those 27,000 I am speechless..

Comment by Charlatan Heston Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:26 am
Charlatan

I agree with the speechless part. Except that i intend to have a detailed conversation on how the next one of these i see i will be one of the former 27,000. To be honest I (I do not know if you have) am partly to blame for not calling them to point out that these kind of idiotic “alerts” are not reflective of their members and are a detriment to the very freedoms the purport to defend. Unfortunately i have always blew them off and deleted them.

Comment by Mason born Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:34 am
To be fair, ISRA doesn’t put much credence in what anyone has to say. It’s unfortunate that they single out Newtown parents, but the NRA got it’s toadies in the US Senate to block universal background checks despite the fact that about 90% of Americans want them.

They don’t care, they don’t listen and they don’t compromise. Glad to know they only have 27,000 members in Illinois. That’s fewer voters than a couple of wards in Chicago, so they’re not exactly putting the fear of God into any legislators with those numbers. There is more noise than votes in that crowd.

Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:35 am
@Amalia
Todd doesnt work for the ISRA.

Maybe like asking you to publicly disavow some association you aren’t actually a member of but may be on the same side of issues of a group you are a member of.

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:37 am
There is a Tin ear there. No doubt.

And while publicly saying that a parent from Newton has no direct expertise on the subject (in general, there may be a few that do) is probably true, that doesn’t make it a good political move.

I will also note there have been Newtown parents that are not calling for more gun control, though they dont seem to get flights on Air Force One.

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:40 am
@Ron, if I were lobbying I would do that.

Comment by Amalia Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:41 am
@amalia

there are crazies on both sides of all tough issues. Abortion, Same sex marriage, welfare reform, medicaid/SS reform, etc.

I have heard plenty on the left accuse GOPers in general and specifically even name people and say “they want sicker kids” “They want your parents to eat dog food and not get medicine” etc…

Then the others that are on that side but not so crazy dont run out to disavow. Why give them more attention?

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:44 am
I agree….dumb as the day is long. While I am an adamant supporter of CC, this was a needless “alert”. Whoever is in charge of PR at the ISRA should pull their head out of their a** and use FACTS to push their agenda. GOOD GRIEF!!!

Comment by Boondocks Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:51 am
If the ISRA doesn’t want the attention, Ron, they shouldn’t be sending out tin-earred ’special alerts.’

The people who write these things (which is not the say every ISRA member) are the people I think shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:53 am
@ron - Amen to that! And crazy is often defined by where one stands on the issues…

Comment by ProblemChild21 Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:54 am
Todd should be proofreading their releases for content (but not grammar or syntax).

;-{)>

Comment by Cincinnatus Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:56 am
Ron,
The idea that there is some equivalence on the bad behavior on this one is ridiculous.
The ISRA consistently sends out crazy releases. They do it on purpose and as a matter of policy.
No other group comes close to them when it comes to acting in an obnoxious behavior.
They are not equal. Both sides do not do it. Just the ISRA goes to that level.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 11:58 am
@ problem

I dont think someone is “crazy” because of their stance on an issue. I am ardent supported of the second amendment. Probably about as much as anyone short of me forming some militia and calling it Ron’s Army of Resistance (northern Illinois Chapter).

but I don’t scream in the face of someone that disagrees with me.

I also am offended by those that may push “solutions” that really have nothing to do with the issue that they say it will solve. IE background checks would have done nothing for Newtown, yet we are told “we” insulted those survivors and we want another newtown because the Universal BG bill was defeated. No mention that it wouldn’t have helped newtown at all.

Or the constant screech of Baby Killers, murders, terrorist, delusional. We (pro 2A folks) are insulted constantly… I dont here many on the Pro-gun control side distancing themselves from those types of remarks.

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:02 pm
“I also am offended by those that may push “solutions” that really have nothing to do with the issue that they say it will solve.”

Ron do you really think that your offense at an idea you don’t like is as bad as insulting grieving parents?

Time for you to step away from commenting, Ron. You are not helping your cause.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:06 pm
I agree with ISRA re: Newton, but I don’t know if it was necessary to raise and if necessary, a bit more tact was in order.

Comment by Just Observing Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:11 pm
=== How can they only have 27,000 members? ===

27,000 members is a large size organization. It’s one thing for a citizen to agree with an organization, its whole other thing to actually get someone to pay annual membership dues to an organization. It’s the classic free-rider complex — those that don’t pay dues but support ISRA’s mission, still get the benefit of their lobbying.

Comment by Just Observing Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:12 pm
“Gun groups are literally shooting themselves in the foot.” Being pedantic here for a moment…but that’s a perfect of example of the modern (and sadly all-too-common) misuse of the word “literally.” I don’t think gun groups are suffering a sudden increase in injuries caused by high-speed projectiles directed downward. My apologies…but it’s a pet peeve of mine.

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:18 pm
I am not an ISRA fan especially, but really this whole thread is a bit foolish. One does not re-write the law and impinge on the rights of millions in a gush of empathy for a few tragic victims of a senseless crime. What the man said was quite valid: The opinions of these victims may make good stuff to boost the ratings of CNN, or create wonderful opportunities for supportive political sound-bites, but they do not and should not weigh very heavily in considering the Constitutional issues related to additional restrictive firearms laws. These people are in legal terms prejudiced witnesses. Frankly, I am sick of this notion that we all have to be sensitive to this group or that group’s delicate sensibilities. I am sick that the Newton thing happened but it does not sway my views on the legal or Constitutional issues.

Comment by Skirmisher Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:19 pm
I wouldn’t assume that the ISRA doesn’t know what buttons they’re pushing — they’ve been in business for a long time and my guess is that they know their people and are doing precisely what they intend to do.

They’re not over-the-top compared to other gun organizations. You ever caught a Wayne LaPierre speech? How about Gun Owners of America?

The NRA convention featured Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. The new NRA president speaks of the “War of Northern Aggression.”

In a nation with 300 million privately owned firearms — more than privately owned cars or TV sets — they continue to sound the alarm that everyone’s coming to “grab their guns.”

Check out the NRAs Enemies List (quite lengthy, in includes Hallmark Cards, the Kansas City Royals, and Fonzie). They’ve scrubbed it from their website, but the Wayback Machine preserved it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130120221338/http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:22 pm
it really is convenient to have one group pushing buttons and exhorting the masses and another that looks somewhat reasonable by comparison. how much difference in positions between the ISRA and the NRA?

Comment by Amalia Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:45 pm
Skirmisher: This is not a foolish thread…it is a discussion…you want your gun rights? I get to use my freedom of expression…that’s in the Constitution too…

Comment by Loop Lady Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:47 pm
===Frankly, I am sick of this notion that we all have to be sensitive to this group or that group’s delicate sensibilities.===

Yeah. You’re such a human being. Just dump all over parents whose children were murdered. I’m sure that’ll get you right into Heaven.

Get out of here, idiot.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 12:51 pm
@Henry, I watch MSNBC a lot as it is one of my main sources of news every day. Apparently you do not if you suggest that most of the mudslinging and insults on this issue are from the Pro gun rights side. This gun control issue is very divisive and I see so much rancor from both sides that I think we’ve reached the point that there is so much ill that I don’t the two sides will ever reach a compromise on how to proceed with this.

Comment by Dude Abides Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:25 pm
@ Skeptic

Duly noted. And I agree. My apology for the wrong word. Figuratively would probably been a better choice.

Comment by FormerParatrooper Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:28 pm
@Former: Apology accepted. Now go out and spread the knowledge, together we can literally rid ourselves of this problem!

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:42 pm
After the last rounds of pension reform proposals, perhaps anyone who still supports AFSCME should be committed. Oh, I forgot, it’s mandatory.

Emotional issues seldom produce totally rational discourse. On July 5th the DOJ will release Firearm Violence, 1993-2011,” and dated July 5, 2013. Why July 5th? Maybe Rich can tell us. It’s available on line now at http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4616

Comment by Anon. Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:42 pm
“One does not re-write the law and impinge on the rights of millions in a gush of empathy for a few tragic victims of a senseless crime.” Someone (legally) builds a shoddy building that falls down, killing 600+ people and injuring hundreds more. That’s not reason enough to change building codes? Or perhaps making it so that only people who have certain training and/or experience are allowed to build such structures?

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:49 pm
Every time ISRA sends out something like this I’m thankful for Todd’s rationality as the NRA lobbyist here in IL. ISRA does far more damage than good.

Comment by Ken_in_Aurora Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:50 pm
@Skeptic

—
Someone (legally) builds a shoddy building that falls down, killing 600+ people and injuring hundreds more. That’s not reason enough to change building codes?
—

Actually it is. BUT who would you listen to when it comes to actually writing those new codes and defining what would fix the problem?

A: The family of a person who is probably not qualified to speak to the actual failure but is for sure emotionally vested or B: A couple of building engineers that can look at the failure objectively, and place blame accordingly, and design a solution that will actually minimize chances of it happening again.

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 1:58 pm
===A couple of building engineers that can look at the failure objectively, and place blame accordingly, and design a solution===

And ISRA is that?

You gotta be kidding me.

Stop defending the indefensible. It makes you look like an idiot.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:00 pm
I have to admit that although I agree with the NRA on CC, every time Ron O writes a comment I want to write a check to some gun control group.

Ron, whether it is your intent or not, your posts seem to bash the victims. You need to stop it. Seriously, step away from the computer for a few hours and get some perspective.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:04 pm
By the way, I strongly agree with Ken on his last post. Todd V may hold most of the same policy views as the ISRA, but he tends to present those positions with class. He can be a fierce advocate but you rarely see doing the stuff that the ISRA does as a matter of routine.

He’s got to be pretty angry right now. The ISRA just made Todd’s job a heck of a lot more difficult.

Comment by HenryVK Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:08 pm
Who are the experts on the U.S. Constitution?

The five Supreme Court justices who discovered for the first time a few years ago a federal right to possess a gun outside of a well-regulated militia?

Or the four in dissent and all the previous justices who came before them?

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:08 pm
@ Rich

no. I am not defending the IRA and you are jumping and showing what I am talking about.

They are politically deaf. and often silly in these things. But you miss my point because of an emotional reaction. The ISRA IS not the building engineer in this case BUT neither is the survivors and their family and WE ALL have to realize that.

Comment by RonOglesby Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:09 pm
The insensitivity of the IRA makes me almost speechless.

Comment by Property Owner Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:27 pm
@Ron O,

Your analogy was misplaced.

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 2:57 pm
Using victims to push an agenda is poor from no matter whether it is Aurora, Newton, Boston et.al.

If there actually is a solution to a tragedy, then that is good. Rolling out the same old tired stuff each time and claiming that the only solution is more regulation does not make any sense.

Niether does holding your breath until you turn blue.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:22 pm
=== Who are the experts on the U.S. Constitution?
The five Supreme Court justices who discovered for the first time a few years ago a federal right to possess a gun outside of a well-regulated militia?
Or the four in dissent and all the previous justices who came before them? ===

I think it’s a mis-characterization to state that all previous justices that came before solely supported gun control in the narrow view of a “militia.” It has always been more nuanced than that.

Comment by Just Observing Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:35 pm
“register us like sex offenders”

I suppose the ISRA is fighting driver’s licenses now as well. Or, that they just don’t drive.

Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:35 pm
–Using victims to push an agenda is poor from no matter whether it is Aurora, Newton, Boston et.al.–

Are they being forced to speak? Or do they just want to be heard?

I’m sure a lot of people would rather not hear from the Newtown folks, but they have as much interest, right and expertise as anyone from the ISRA when it comes to gun policy.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:42 pm
Precinct Capitan

I think the Sex offender registry was in regards to this.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130307/chicago/city-may-expand-gun-offender-registry

I never have understood what the key problem was. As long as those registered were felons i had no problem with it and coincidently if they are felons then they can’t legally own a gun.

Comment by Mason born Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:44 pm
“I also am offended by those that may push “solutions” that really have nothing to do with the issue that they say it will solve. IE background checks would have done nothing for Newtown, yet we are told “we” insulted those survivors and we want another newtown because the Universal BG bill was defeated. No mention that it wouldn’t have helped newtown at all.”

Does this mean that in the wake of the Bangladesh factory collapse we should be talking about building codes only instead of worker exploitation in the in the garment industry? How about the fact that each goes hand in hand? It’s the same with gun law and gun violence. Background checks would not have stopped Newtown, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t preventing things now and that stronger checks won’t prevent something in the future.

Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:49 pm
I cannot believe that you guys are so afraid.
No courage?? Let’s BE civilized as you suggest.
Be a man!

Comment by floyd Sprague Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:53 pm
“Are they being forced to speak? Or do they just want to be heard?”

The individuals savaged by any tragedy have all the right to speak. The problem arises when the politicians and lobbyists use the pain of these people for their own personal or political gain.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:56 pm
As an ISRA member I do not believe Rich Pearson should be forced out of office for the Newtown comment. But Rich Pearson is more than a little out of touch with non-gun owners and to a degree gun owners from larger urban areas.

I have written to Rich Pearson before about some of his comments and I am sure other members have too. He has thrown fuel on the fire effectively by his comments in relation to the grieving Newtown parents. I guess he came back from the NRA convention way too fired up. As “Just Observing” posted earlier Rich Pearson’s comment was not necessary and lacked tact.

Comment by Rod Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 3:59 pm
“That’s not reason enough to change building codes?”

Depends on whether the building codes were followed in the first place. If the codes were not followed in the first place, then changes in the building codes are not warranted.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:03 pm
–I think it’s a mis-characterization to state that all previous justices that came before solely supported gun control in the narrow view of a “militia.” It has always been more nuanced than that.–

So nuanced that it took 220 years and a 5-4 vote to get rid of the well-regulated militia in the 2nd Amendment. Former Chief Justice Burger was hardly nuanced when he called that position a “fraud” on the American people.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:07 pm
–The individuals savaged by any tragedy have all the right to speak. The problem arises when the politicians and lobbyists use the pain of these people for their own personal or political gain.–

And they have a right to petition their government. And to work with whomever they wish in the public square on a common agenda.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:12 pm
It’s not accurate to say that all prebious SC Justices disagree that gun ownership is an individual right. Laurence Tribe, law professor at Harvard, is one of the most quoted and most respected experts on the US Constitution. He is a self described Liberal and favors gun control. He also believes that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right. I remember when he publicly stated his opinion on this and he caught a lot of flak from the gun control people, who are mostly left of center people politically, who said they felt betrayed by him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/us/06firearms.html?pagewanted=all

Comment by Dude Abides Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:13 pm
“And they have a right to petition their government”

They also have a right not to be used as a prop for a self serving agenda.

Comment by Plutocrat03 Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:28 pm
–They also have a right not to be used as a prop for a self serving agenda.–
LOL, what are you saying? Are they being forced against their will?

You might not like what they choose to say or who they choose to stand or ally with, but that’s just too bad.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:36 pm
@Wordslinger:

Why overlook the fact that at an earlier time in American history every able bodied adult male was subject to being called for militia duty and were oftentimes asked to bring their own weapons. Militia had a different meaning once upon a time because there were no state national guard organizations.

Comment by Esquire Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 4:42 pm
–Why overlook the fact that at an earlier time in American history every able bodied adult male was subject to being called for militia duty and were oftentimes asked to bring their own weapons.–

I don’t overlook that at all. That would seem to be the purpose of the 2nd Amendment — at a time when there was no standing national army, no national guard and no police forces.

It was Heller that removed the well-regulated militia.

Here’s how Chief Justice Burger saw it.

http://www.guncite.com/burger.html

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 5:16 pm
Just The Way It Is, is pathetic. Decent gun owners with any kind of a heart or level of compassion should be embarrassed by his offensive, hurtful words to the Young CHILDREN Victims, the Adult Victims, and ALL of their loved ones–let alone as a lifelong Illinoisan myself, all the rest of us who live here!!!

Comment by Just The Way It Is One Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 9:17 pm
This is exactly why I am not an ISRA member even though I am a NRA member.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, May 9, 13 @ 10:18 pm