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* I told you last month that the ICIRR was getting major push-back from the Catholic church over its support of the gay marriage bill. The pressure has since increased. Mark Brown…
In an eye-opening display of hardball, the Catholic Church is threatening to cut off funding to local groups that work with the poor for being part of an immigrant rights coalition that endorsed legalizing same-sex marriages in Illinois.
The groups in question receive grants from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, the anti-poverty arm of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
They also all happen to be partners in the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights, the state’s most influential advocacy group on behalf of immigrants.
The Illinois Coalition normally works cooperatively with the Catholic Church, which also is a leader on immigration issues. In fact, Catholic Charities is one of the coalition’s 130 partner organizations across the state.
But that relationship has been on the rocks since May 23, when the coalition issued a statement in support of “marriage equality” for same-sex partners.
That announcement ran directly counter to the Catholic Church’s strong opposition to same-sex marriage.
On the one hand, I can see the church’s point. You takes the money, you plays by the rules. The ICIRR knew it could be jeopardizing its pretty darned successful voter registration and citizenship work when it announced support for gay marriage. Them’s the breaks, I suppose. By the same token, you don’t partner with WalMart if you get big bucks from the AFL-CIO.
On the other hand, it’s supremely disappointing to see a large organization mess with small not-for-profits just because they belong to a coalition that happens to back gay marriage.
But, hey, it’s a free country.
* Meanwhile, Jim Lauser posted some good advice on his Facebook page…
The LGBTQ activist community views this as a fight, and they’ve approached this from a fighting stance. They’ve organized demonstrations with the word “bigot” stapled underneath every rainbow flag. They’ve hollered at their opponents through megaphones, and made sure the press had video of it. My very favorite action though, was vowing to “remember” Speaker Madigan’s inaction when it’s time for his daughter’s gubernatorial race. My God! The thought of the LGBTQ community taking Lisa Madigan hostage is SO outrageous that it reminds me of the scene from “Blazing Saddles.” You know, where the sheriff puts a gun to his own head. It worked for the sheriff, I guess.
And now, judging from the chatter in my feed, it appears that the LGBTQ activist community is preparing to double-down on their angry rhetoric. Instead of urging our community to “respectfully tell their legislators personal stories” or “appeal personally and emotionally” to them… they appear genuinely convinced that they just haven’t been yelling loudly enough, or said the word “bigot” often enough, or they haven’t twisted enough arms.
I can only urge them to reconsider their imagery. For those who view us as threatening… we’re only confirming their fears.
Sage words.
* Related…
* Interview With Rep. Greg Harris, Sponsor of Illinois’ Marriage Equality Act: “You had immense blowback from the right wing of the Republican Party, you had people starting to come to a conclusion they wanted to potentially be a vote, then you had an announcement maybe two, three weeks ago that the House Republican Leader [Tom Cross] that he might run for Attorney General, which started a scramble in that caucus that people who thought, “Oh, I can be the next House Leader,” saying, “Well how do I cobble together my majority? I need to tack way to the right to appease the Tea Partyists and the right wing people in order to get this new job.” So all kinds of things happened behind the scenes.”
* Editorial: Harris not the enemy in gay marriage fight
* Laura Washington: Bad fallout after gay marriage fall
* What’s the matter with Illinois?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:03 am
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Is this same Catholic Church who wanted a pass to keep their anti-gay foster parent business going?
The demand is insane. Could someone phone over to Cardinal and mentioned the legislature is amending state law and not the ten commandments?
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:07 am
It’s their money, they can do as they wish.
Still, they’re not cutting off all sinners, are they? Kind of defeats the purpose of the exercise.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:12 am
For what it is worth, this is type of demand is not new. While it might be new for marriage equality, insisting that grantees not engage in activities counter to the Church’s positions, regardless for what the grant is for, has been happening for years. This has been an issue with abortion.
They have the right to do it, but it doesn’t mean they should. It just confirms for me I made the right decision to walk away from the Catholic Church.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:12 am
I love the interview with Harris, it’s the right-wing Republicans fault??? They were never going to vote for SB10 and last I heard, there aren’t that many Republicans trying for leader. It was the black caucus that tanked the vote because of blowback from their local churches.
Comment by Realist Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:17 am
Imagine if a charity supported Arizona’s harshest immigration law - would anyone be surprised if a Latino funding group pulled out? Or if a charity supported the Israel boycott movement that Jewish donors might protest? I’d like the Catholic Church to keep funding this group and adopt the Pope’s position on gay marriage (ok, I don’t know what his position is but given that as a cardinal he was ok with civil unions and is so devoted to spotlighting charity work I’d doubt he’d favor this move if presented with it), but I’m not going to tell them what to do.
Comment by lake county democrat Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:17 am
And now I’ll stop giving money to the Catholic Church on Sundays and just give it to those charities instead.
They don’t want to play by my rules, they don’t get my money.
Comment by Stuff happens Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:17 am
The degree to which the gay marriage issue has caused these harsh reactions from organizations, churches and others never ceases to amaze me. I’m constantly disappointed by churches (not just the Catholic church) and the way they have vociferously fought against a group of people for no other reason than they are gay. It’s disappointing to me that a church would act in such a way.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:17 am
So the Catholic Church wishes to marginalize itself even further. I’m fine with that.
Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:21 am
Seriously, Greg Harris… the right wing of the Republican party derailed the bill? These people could not successfully organize a one car funeral procession. The SSM proponents had tons of money and could not corral enough Democratic votes to make it happen. If the majority Democrats were united the bill could have passed with the GOP caucus being irrelevant.
Comment by Esquire Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:27 am
Isn’t this exactly what happened when the Catholic Church decided they weren’t going to do adoptions for Same Sex couples? They sided against the State and lost their funding? I don’t see how this is any different.
As always though, it does hurt people who have absolutely nothing to do with the issue, which is terribly sad.
Comment by ChrisB Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:27 am
Esquire, if you weren’t so sensitive and actually read the interview, you’d know that this was just one aspect.
And, yes, it was an important aspect, regardless of what your hyperpartisan “brain” thinks. That leadership battle had a negative effect on the roll call.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:37 am
For some reason I feel like alienating immigrants over gay rights probably isn’t the best long term strategy for the Catholic Church.
Either way, they can do what they please with their money, I’d just appreciate it if they’d stop whining about not getting my tax money to fund their discriminatory practices anymore.
Also, the next time I have to attend a service for my godson, please don’t whine about declining membership and the lack of young men answering the call to be priests, a quick look at the polling on this issue could give you a partial explanation.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:39 am
a big lesson in all of this, for all of you who are new to capital fax summer camp is, “you can never do just one thing”. everything is related to everything else.
speaking of which, what would the activities be if capital fax ran summer camp? where would it be held? who might the counselors be?
Comment by langhorne Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:39 am
I can’t agree with Rich regarding Lisa or her father.
We know what they’ve accomplished. Why bother supporting them if they have failed to step up?
Use the money you were going to donate on a vacation instead. Rather than campaigning for Lisa or for any of Madigan’s people, enjoy some nice spring and fall days.
But spending time and money on a Madigan? What’s the upside? Why bother?
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:39 am
There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is free to do with their money what they want. The Catholic Church is then justifiably defined by the results of the actions/fruits of their labors. Jesus was big on abandoning kids who needed loving adoptive homes and turning his back on immigrants and refugees, right?
Comment by heretic Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:39 am
I enjoyed the editorial on Rep. Harris. He’s a decent person. It’s good that he didn’t call his bill for a vote that wasn’t there. I believe he will persevere, just like his colleague Rep. Lang did with medical marijuana. Younger people overwhelmingly support same sex marriage, and that bodes well for the future of this issue.
I don’t buy that it’s only the Democrats’ fault for the bill’s failure. Democrats don’t have to vote in a monolithic way. Republicans need to also step up and vote. You can’t have only two or three legislators in your party who would vote for something then blame the other party when many if not most in the other party would vote for it.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:41 am
I am not Catholic but I certainly support their position.Just because some people support gay marriage doesn’t mean the rest of us have to give up our beliefs.
Comment by reflector Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:42 am
tired of any bit of my taxes going towards subsidizing the work of the Roman Catholic Church. they are as political as it gets and they should not reap not for profit benefits.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:42 am
The ICIRR should strictly focus on their work for immigrant rights and not be side tracked by any other issue. That’s the whole point of a single-issue interest group, isn’t it?
Kudos to the Catholic Church for their consistency and work on behalf of the poor.
Comment by Sacajawea Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:49 am
It would be nice if all grants were results-oriented, and apolitical.
It would be nice if all legislators voted their best judgment regardless of the impact on their reelection.
Comment by walkinfool Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:51 am
==We know what they’ve accomplished. Why bother supporting them if they have failed to step up?==
Yes, because Lisa Madigan has so much to do with the issue. She could come out forcefully for it but what exactly does that accomplish? This anti-Madigan thing makes me laugh. But if you want to waste your time on it that’s your right.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:58 am
*The ICIRR should strictly focus on their work for immigrant rights and not be side tracked by any other issue. That’s the whole point of a single-issue interest group, isn’t it?*
I have a hunch that there might be an immigrant or two that is gay.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:58 am
=== On the one hand, I can see the church’s point. You takes the money, you plays by the rules. ===
More than a little ironic considering the church’s fiery meltdown when the state insisted that Catholic Charities - as a state contractor - actually follow state law in placing foster kids.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/major-blow-dealt-to-catholic-charities-in-illinois-over-homosexual-adoption/
Comment by Raymond Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:58 am
- Esquire -,
With respect,
1 “yes” out of “19″ including the Moderate Irrelevent Leader Jo Galloway voting “No” in the Senate, and only 1….ONE..declared HGOP member declaring a “yes” vote, then roll into the Leadership Battle and you can lay some of the “blame” at the fee of the GA GOP.
Cross should have came in at the last minute, counted noses with Rep. Harris, and had Harris call the Bill, get it passed with the tenet that, “If it wasn’t for the Bi-Partisan support the HGOP showed, this Bill’s passage would not be possible.”
Now,
The GA GOP, and Rep. Harris is one of the best legislators in the General Assembly knowing his constituency and how to manuver politcally and governmentally under the Dome, will wear part of tha jacket, as I said and many others said as well, becuasue of the 1-18 vote in the Senate, and a lack of support in the HGOP Caucus, and Harris will use that “lever” as a smart legislator, to take some of the heat of his HDem colleagues, and use the HGOP’s stance, and the SGOP’s votes as a rallying cry to help overall in the elections coming up.
The Dems will. Harris has alluded to it, and smartly and carefully, and it will fester and grow the resentment on the issue, and Oberweis and the Brady issues will bubble up …
It’s a process, it’s a process, it’s a process…
and, “It is, what it is.”, no matter how you want to innocuate the GA GOP and the ILGOP as a whole, it will not happen. Cross could have saved it, but it fell.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:59 am
Good point Demoralized, because we wouldn’t expect her to, I don’t know, lead or something.
She’s not in the legislature, so she should just sit on her hands, right?
Stay the course! Illinois is doing great! Don’t change a thing!
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:03 am
–Cross should have came in at the last minute, counted noses with Rep. Harris, and had Harris call the Bill, get it passed with the tenet that, “If it wasn’t for the Bi-Partisan support the HGOP showed, this Bill’s passage would not be possible.”–
I’m down on the Dem big hitters for not getting the job done, but the House GOP really missed a historic opportunity here as well.
They could have put the issue behind them for good and earned a fresh look from the suburban Independents they desperately need to get back in the ballgame.
As a bonus, it would have been the right thing to do, too.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:04 am
As a long time Chicago resident I am not surprised by the Diocese. They seem very willing to hurt the people most in need of their help just to prove a point. It seems so two faced. As a little side story..my office was right across the street from Holy Name Cathedral. I watched the day they buried Cardnial Cody. They eulogized him has a hero…he had a mistress and was shacking up with her in Florida. The old saying…”dont do as I do….do as I say”. I am wondering how he was finaly judged.
Comment by jeffsf Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:04 am
=== But spending time and money on a Madigan? What’s the upside? Why bother? ===
I don’t think the issue is spending time and money to support the Speaker or Lisa… the issue is whether its smart to wage a zealous campaign against the Speaker or Lisa. Theres a big difference between being neutral and being “against”
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:05 am
Sorry. anonymous at 11:05 was me
Comment by Fred's Mustasche Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:09 am
The anti-Catholic bigotry in the comments is getting a little old in the comment section.
Comment by Sacajawea Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:09 am
- HenryVK -,
I kinda let it sit out there, then you responded that Lisa needed to lead …
Let’s look at where the Bill was, who was against, where “noses” were to be had, and how to get it over the “Finish Line”
Black Caucus - Rich and others have gone over how to understand the Clergy in the African American community, and the Black Caucus didn’t want to be on the record for a Primary vote, yet, without having the opportunity to go back “home” and explain, and further, Rep. Harris and The Speaker agreed that was the correct course. It’s politics. Why alienate a potential friend in upcoming months on a bill to make them an enemy today on the same bill?
What should Lisa have done?
GOP - Unless you think Irrelevent Leader Cross, who he himself became a “No” on the Bill, would take Lisa’s call and work with Lisa to flip HGOP members, during a power struggle for leadership in the Caucus, how should Lisa have proceeded?
Where are your avenues, - HenryVK -, considering the dynamic of the vote, where the votes were to be had, and given the politcal climate and strategy Rep. Harris and the Speaker chose, given the lay of the land?
Map it out for me, with these “Givens” and Lisa’s role as a “lever” in the process?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:10 am
“Kudos to the Catholic Church for their consistency..”
Yeah, keep it up. Pretty soon the Church will be unable to work with or support any group as gay marriage is accepted and endorsed by more organizations.
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:11 am
This “marriage” issue is the tipping point because it infringes on the freedom of groups to practice their religion, and empowers others to force them to accept what is a social and religious tenet. I don’t recall the Catholic church objecting to civil unions this way, nor rejecting “sinners” that have children out of wedlock.In fact those of us in the St Vicnet DePaul Society help the needy regardless of their “sins”.
“Render unto Caeser what is Caeser’s and render unto God what is God’s”. Civil unions are “Caeser’s”, but marriage is a religious sacrement that belongs to “God”.
Lord knows there’s problems with Catholic dogma, but this moral clarity on key issues like protecting the sacrements and abortion issues is one reason I left the Lutheran church to become Catholic.
Comment by Palos Park Bob Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:17 am
Also, Jim Lauser is a Sage.
The “Blazing Saddles” … well said.
I said this after the Bill went without a vote;
It is going to come down to the Dems rallying around the 1-18 vote in the SGOP Caucus, and the 1 vote the HGOP could bring to the Bill. It will morph against the GA GOP, as the Dems rally around each other, using the SSM torches and pitchforks calling for the ouster of Brady to bring them back, and paint the entire ILGOP as intolerant before the “day is done”.
Rep. Harris is very smart. Herding cats with a common cause, (The ILGOP, the GA GOP) is better than calling out factions of the Democratic Caucus.
It has begun, and seeing this train coming for a while reinforces for me that the ILGOP made a horrible error not helping Harris, and it will haunt the ILGOP as we look intolerant to …ALL …factions, as the Dems work this out and seem not at all extreme.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:21 am
“Yeah, keep it up. Pretty soon the Church will be unable to work with or support any group as gay marriage is accepted and endorsed by more organizations.”
That’s a pretty foolish assertion, considering what Church provides in medical, education, and social services. You think the state is broke now, wait until they would have to cover those areas if the Church is prohibited from “working or supporting” any group. Good luck.
The interesting thing about the ICIRR position is that I would venture to say that the majority of the people they are representing, do not support same-sex marriage either.
Good way to muddle your message and tick off your base.
Comment by Sacajawea Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:23 am
Oswego,
I think the Speaker should have made it happen back in February. Or March.
We keep hearing about his great power.
It sure didn’t seem like he was twisting any arms.
And Lisa? I’m not aware of her doing anything at all.
Of course, that’s true for most issues facing Illinois.
We have no real leadership. We are last in just about every category for a reason.
You guys can keep acting like some primary will make all the difference. You can act like changing a few seats or even the Gov. will bring change.
Come 2015, when we have a new House and a new Gov. but things will be the same. In Illinois we are just not good at governing ourselves.
The most telling thing from last week wasn’t the rating service that lowered the state’s rating. The most telling thing was the one that did not. Their report said that they EXPECTED that Illinois would fail to solve the problem. They based their January rating on the expectation that Illinois would do nothing.
That’s really all we need to know.
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:25 am
“The anti-Catholic bigotry in the comments is getting a little old in the comment section.”
Can you explain how saying “discrimination is bad” amounts to “anti-Catholic bigotry”? Not following on that one.
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:29 am
There’s a rumor chicago has a catholic congressman named dan lipinski who doesn’t really show up ever on the news or seem to do anything. I’m curious what his take on this is?
Comment by shore Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:29 am
It is a free country and people are free to leave the Catholic church, which they are doing because of issues like this.
If I told you there was a major organization threatening to cut off funding to local groups that work with the poor because they supported equality under the law, what would you think about that organization without even knowing who they were?
Comment by Ahoy! Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:37 am
===think the Speaker should have made it happen back in February. Or March.===
Nope.
Back in February and March, the Speaker and Rep. Harris said they didn’t have the votes, so why call a defeated Bill. That ain’ strategy, that is Dopey.
===You guys can keep acting like some primary will make all the difference. You can act like changing a few seats or even the Gov. will bring change.===
This makes no sense. The Governor’s Office changes the dynamic by 1/3 of government. Unless you are an utter defeatist, that statement is silly.
===Come 2015, when we have a new House and a new Gov. but things will be the same. In Illinois we are just not good at governing ourselves.===
Attention, attention please;
The 2014 Primary and General Elections will mean nothing to Illinois;
Therefore, we must not have these elections, because …”Come 2015, when we have a new House and a new Gov. but things will be the same. In Illinois we are just not good at governing ourselves.”
Yikes!
So, - Henry VK -,
===Where are your avenues, - HenryVK -, considering the dynamic of the vote, where the votes were to be had, and given the politcal climate and strategy Rep. Harris and the Speaker chose, given the lay of the land?
Map it out for me, with these “Givens” and Lisa’s role as a “lever” in the process?===
What was the Map not followed?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:38 am
==Good point Demoralized, because we wouldn’t expect her to, I don’t know, lead or something.==
I said that she could say something about it but it accomplishes absolutely nothing. Her input isn’t going to change one mind of those Democrats opposed to this. You can claim all you want that she needs to “lead” but she has nothing to lead right now other than the AG’s office. Your anti-Madigan bent is blinding you.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:41 am
There could be 3 catholics running for governor under the Democratic banner. Plus they all typically visit South side churches prior to primary. It could really be interesting come fall and winter.
Comment by Darienite Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:41 am
===…or even the Gov. will bring change.===
lol
If “Governor Brady” won, we wouldn’t have had the “Jerry Clarke Map”.
Nope. Nothing changes with a new governor, who is 1/3 of Illinois’ gogernment. Nothing. Nada.
Good luck with that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:43 am
=== I think the Speaker should have made it happen back in February. Or March.
We keep hearing about his great power.
It sure didn’t seem like he was twisting any arms. ===
Please. Rich has documented the missteps of the equality advocates well on this blog. People can blame the Speaker all they want… after all, its much easier to blame someone else than to do a little self reflection and think about how they could have done things better to get this bill passed.
As for your comment on the Speaker’s power, many who often refer to his “great power” are the ones who understand it the least. To be sure, the man can make things move in the Statehouse… but he just doesn’t dictate his wishes.
Comment by Fred's Mustache Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:44 am
I think ICIRR made a major mistake getting involved in the same sex marriage debate…poor political instincts by their leadership — they should have seen this problem with the Church coming. I also think the Farm Bureau was stupid to take a stand against SSM. They do a real solid job establishing relationships with Chicago legislators who normally have no interest in agricultural issues. Why risk throwing that away over an issue that has nothing to do with farming? They better hope they never need Greg Harris’s vote.
Comment by Frank Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 11:51 am
Rich,
As a Heterosexual man with full marriage rights please don’t dictate to the LGBTQ community, a historically marginalized and oppressed community, what is appropriate optics in their fight for full equality and human dignity. So-called Democrats should know, if you stand in the way of equality and the values of your party and President there will be political consequences, and one of them will be opposition to your daughter’s political aspirations and being called a bigot.
Comment by Anonimo Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 12:34 pm
As for the Catholic Church, shame on them for using charity money to play hardball politics. The organizations that they are funding do important work and serve the community, hence the funding. They shouldn’t threaten to take away these services they provide to the poor just because one of the many coalitions their part of supports marriage equality. I mean, they’re rougher on these groups than they’ve been with some sex offenders. It’s actions like these that make the Catholic Church increasingly marginalized and alienated from the younger, rational, progressive population.
Comment by Anonimo Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 12:36 pm
Sure Oswego,
If only the map had been better, all of our problems would be solved! Things would be so different!
Do you honestly think electing Republicans would solve any problems at all in Illinois?
I remember when the GOP had control. The only significant difference was that the Structural Work Act was repealed. And different people got contracts.
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 12:40 pm
“Her input isn’t going to change one mind of those Democrats opposed to this.”
So she can’t persuade anybody, but she wants to be gov?
That makes her different from our current gov how?
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 12:42 pm
“The 2014 Primary and General Elections will mean nothing to Illinois;
Therefore, we must not have these elections.”
No, I definitely think we should have elections. It is pretty funny watching people run around so frantically, acting like they are Doing Things of Great Importance.
“Ohhh, if we just elect State Rep A, things will get so much better!”
“If we can only replace the Gov., our problems will be solved!”
I love Illinois elections. They crack me up.
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 12:45 pm
==This “marriage” issue is the tipping point because it infringes on the freedom of groups to practice their religion==
No, it doesn’t.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 1:13 pm
==So she can’t persuade anybody, but she wants to be gov?==
Don’t be so dense. The AG can advocate but she is not in any position to persuade anybody. The Black Caucus members, for example, aren’t going to give a hoot about what the AG thinks. If you want to lay some of the blame on the AG then you really have no clue.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 1:14 pm
Well Demoralized, we will never know what sort of influence she may have had, since she never tried.
Demoralized, keep supporting these people, and then keep wondering every year just what went wrong.
Comment by HenryVK Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 1:22 pm
=== Rich,
As a Heterosexual man with full marriage rights please don’t dictate to the LGBTQ community, a historically marginalized and oppressed community, what is appropriate optics in their fight for full equality and human dignity. ===
Don’t think Rich is dictating anything. I think he is just pointing out a failed strategy. I always thought that the goal is to get the marriage bill passed. If you want to hoot and hollar and storm the Capitol and demonize your opposition, then go right ahead. Its just not going to get the job done.
Comment by Fred's Mustache Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 1:42 pm
This seems like a good idea, after all if Jesus Christ met a sinner the first thing he would do is cast stones and cut that person off from any aid or support because they had sinned.
The bible is full of the requirement that we judge others, and if they commit any kind of sin we should punish them.
After all, when Catholic priests are found to have secually assualted minor children they are imeediately removed from all financial support and forced to get jobs and figure out how to survive…oh wait, they go to special retreats where they are fed, clothed, housed and taken care of while they try to fix their problems….
So its ok to fund support for sexual predators 9many of whom engaged in same sex relationships) but we must not support organizations which help other if they enage in far less horrendous conduct.
makes sense….
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:19 pm
This reminds me of the story about how jesus refused to wash the feet of the prostitues because they were sinners, and instead turned his back and loudly denounced them… that is how the story goes isn’t?
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:22 pm
Do we expect too much of our legislators sometimes? Monique Davis wins year after year. Voters returned a West Side representative who was expelled from the GA and we are surprised that stalemate reigns?
Truthfully, during my lifetime, outside of the House and Senate leadership, the Chicago and Cook County reps have been composed primarily of hacks and second tier candidates who could not be slated for more visible positions on the Chicago City Council or the suburban village boards.
Maybe it’s different in Downstate districts.
I was reading a microfilm copy of the Tribune and saw an article about politics from the Forties. Francis X. Busch, who served as the Chicago Corporation Counsel and as a Democratic Ward Committeeman, complained that virtually none of the Chicagoans that he met could correctly identify their representative or state senator despite having voted for the same people regularly. Nothing much has changed.
Comment by Esquire Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:28 pm
==This “marriage” issue is the tipping point because it infringes on the freedom of groups to practice their religion==
Oh ye of little faith.
That’s quite a flippant back-of-the-hand to those of many religious persuasions throughout history who have endured true persecution at the hands of the state.
It also conveniently ignores the very real institutional discrimination practiced against Catholics in many parts of the United States through much of American history.
I find it hard to believe that you can take an objective look at the power structure in the state of Illinois or the United States and discern discrimination against Catholics.
They worked their way up. Like Frank Costello said in The Departed: “Nobody gives it to you; you have to take it.”
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:32 pm
1. My guess is that the majority of Illinoisans who support equality will give more to those groups if asked;
2. Support for equality is highest among Catholics, and those who have stuck with the Church because of its work on behalf of the poor, including immigrants, don’t really have much reason to stay.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:32 pm
It is their money and they have the right to choose groups to support or not support.
Holding back funding is a far better practice than the church would have exercised in previous centuries.
Comment by Endangered Moderate Species Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 2:40 pm
“I think ICIRR made a major mistake getting involved in the same sex marriage debate…poor political instincts by their leadership — they should have seen this problem with the Church coming.”
Or, perhaps, it was a principled stand based on common principles of justice and equality between two movements, knowing full well that others might object.
Comment by ChicagoR Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 3:08 pm
Credit to Greg Harris for being an excellent advocate for his cause.
I’m not certain whether I agree or disagree with him on this issue, but don’t ever let the “haters” get you down sir.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 3:21 pm
–Maybe it’s different in Downstate districts.–
Indeed.
As a young man, I remember being moved by the great philosophers such as Monroe Flinn, Sam Vinson, Sam Wolf Dwight Friedrichs, Chuck Hartke and David Phelps.
Of course, the Godfathers were Paul Powell and Kenny Gray, the Daniel Websters and Henry Clays of their times.
Today, in 2013, I’m sure that we’re all proud that some — some — Downstate GA members are committed, more than ever, that we all have a state job, can scam workman’s comp, pack a gun wherever we go, and know at all times the content of the urine of black people in Cook County.
Lincoln would be proud.
I’m a farm boy, don’t peddle that Downstate Virtuousa stuff my way. I’ve been around the block a couple of times, a few county fairs and a rodeo, too.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 5:17 pm
- ChicagoR - I agree with you, ICIRR took a “principled stand based on common principles of justice and equality.” But in doing so, they also splintered a carefully constructed coalition that has been largely successful politically. And I doubt ICIRR’s stance moved a single vote on SSM!
Conversly, SSM opponents could praise the Farm Bureau for taking a “principled stand” against the bill. And I know they didn’t move a single vote either. Members of both groups probably felt good about the positions they took, but neither influenced the debate and both ticked off potential allies.
Principled stands are great and noble and admirable…they are not always politically wise.
Comment by Frank Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 5:30 pm
===But, hey, it’s a free country.===
===It’s their money, they can do as they wish.====
Their money?? How about my money? Or what use to be more of my money? Use to be at least $25 a week and a couple hundred on the big Holy Days. Last year and probably two? My tax statement just had a lower amount on the bigs and a couple of here or there Sundays. They are playing with less money to begin with because of their stances.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Jun 11, 13 @ 10:09 pm
=== Rich, As a Heterosexual man with full marriage rights please don’t dictate to the LGBTQ community, a historically marginalized and oppressed community, what is appropriate optics in their fight for full equality and human dignity. ===
First off, I’m pretty sure that “appropriate optics” is referring to Jim Lausier’s quote in the article, not any comments by Rich. But it doesn’t matter much. I happen to know that Jim is also a heterosexual man with full marriage rights as well. He’s also very, very active in this particular cause. You could say that he and I know each other pretty well. He occasionally comments on this blog with the name “FoxValleyPride1″
Look, I’m not saying that our community has no right to be angry. (I say “our community” because straight allies like myself are a part of the LGBTQ community.) We’ve got every right to call our opponents bigots and we’ve got every right to threaten political consequences for people who don’t come through. (Although, I’ll point out that even the mob has more integrity than to go after someone’s family.) But, although we have every justification, we simply are not going win people over that way. If this is a “battle,” then it’s a battle for hearts and minds. People have gotta LIKE ya. If they like ya enough, then maybe they’ll join your cause. Nobody wants to join in a knock-down, drag-out fight.
And it’s not impossible to get our message across using positive imaging. The most popular post ever from a Facebook Fan Page called “Fox Valley Pride” (what a coincidence) is this picture with a message aimed squarely at straight people. But look… smiles! And no name calling. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.516751388366109.1073741826.433502296691019&type=1&l=daac480d93
Regular readers of Capitol Fax will recognize this video from about six weeks ago. The message in the video isn’t “We’re angry and our opponents are bigots.” The message is “We’re happy and our opponents are invisible.” And yet… the message of equality still gets across through the signs and the music. http://youtu.be/ozYQrDfzdT0
I’m just hoping that we, as a community, can get more positive results with a more positive message. (Jim)
BTW Rich - I could’ve used html tags for the links, but I don’t know if they’ll work in the comments. Will they?
Comment by FoxValleyPride1 Wednesday, Jun 12, 13 @ 12:09 am