Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Now, hey you, mister, can’t you read?

Posted in:

Illinois

Diners pass a NO WEAPONS sign at Keefer’s Restaurant on the Near North Side. “I just don’t think alcohol and guns go together,” said Glenn Keefer, managing partner of the restaurant and a supporter of the Second Amendment.

* Wait a second. Didn’t Glenn Keefer say a few days ago that signs won’t work? Why, yes, he did…

Glenn Keefer, managing partner of Keefer’s Restaurant at 20 W. Kinzie in the River North neighborhood, said a provision in the current law for restaurants to post signs that guns are unwelcome won’t work.

The existing bill’s language, which Quinn said comes straight from the National Rifle Association-endorsed concealed carry law in Texas, allows concealed-carry weapons in bars and restaurants whose alcohol sales are less than 50 percent of their gross receipts. The existing bill lets those restaurants put up signs saying guns are unwelcome, while establishments with greater than 50-percent alcohol sales are required to post such signs.

“After more than 40 years in the bar and restaurant business, I can tell you that signs do not work,” Keefer said, noting that he took down his own restaurant’s sign asking men to take off their hats while dining because it was ignored.

Signs definitely don’t work, Keefer says, but even though the concealed carry law hasn’t even kicked in yet and no official signs have yet been issued, Keefer is already posting signs?

Huh?

* Along these same lines, the Senate Democrats have posted a handy concealed carry FAQ. From the list…

8. Where am I not allowed to carry a firearm?

• Schools
• Preschools and child care facilities
• Government buildings
• Courts
• Correctional facilities
• Hospitals, mental health facilities and nursing homes
• Public transportation
• Establishments where more than 50 percent of sales come from alcohol
• Public gatherings and other special events open to the public
• Any building that has received a Special Event Retailer’s license
• Public playgrounds
• Public parks or athletic facilities
• The Cook County Forest Preserve District
• Colleges and universities
• Gaming facilities
• Stadiums
• Libraries
• Airports
• Amusement parks, zoos and museums
• Nuclear energy facilities
• Places where guns are already prohibited by federal law
• Businesses where a sign is posted indicating that the owner does not allow guns on the property
• Someone else’s private residence, unless you have the owner’s permission

The “50 percent” rule on liquor sales has always been a curiosity to me. Here’s the statutory language…

Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment’s gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol. The owner of an establishment who knowingly fails to prohibit concealed firearms on its premises as provided in this paragraph or who knowingly makes a false statement or record to avoid the prohibition on concealed firearms under this paragraph is subject to the penalty under subsection (c-5) of Section 10-1 of the Liquor Control Act of 1934.

Notice anything missing? Who’s auditing these percentages? It appears nobody.

* And punishment is not exactly intense. Subsection (c-5) of Section 10-1 of the Liquor Control Act of 1934…

Any owner of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment’s gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol, who knowingly fails to prohibit concealed firearms on its premises or who knowingly makes a false statement or record to avoid the prohibition of concealed firearms on its premises under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act shall be guilty of a business offense with a fine up to $5,000.

Discuss.

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:04 am

Comments

The signage is pretty standard in other states. Most states dont allow carry in Bars (they have to define it by % of revenue… what else would you define a bar by? a simple liquor license doesnt work to define a bar).

Stadiums, bars, schools. all pretty standard. I know this is really new to Illinois and people who live here, but very normal in all our neighboring states.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:07 am
So the guy can’t change his mind?

Comment by Nonplussed Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:10 am
==Any building, real property, and parking area ==

So you can’t even drive to the place and leave your gun in your car parked in its lot?

Comment by Anon. Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:13 am
I think Keefer saw an opportunity for some free publicity.

He got the Trib already, and the Chicago TV stations generally get their story “ideas” out of the papers, so he’ll probably get some more publicity.

You can’t swing a cat in that neighborhood without hitting an expensive steak house — competition is fierce. Any way to get your name out for free is a probably a good thing.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:14 am
Nice Five Man Electrical Band reference Rich

Comment by Roadiepig Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:19 am
You’re breaking my mind.

Comment by Living in Machiaville Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:24 am
@Anon
—
So you can’t even drive to the place and leave your gun in your car parked in its lot?
—

There is a safe harbor provision allowing a license holder to store the weapon (secured) in a vehicle at places that are out of bounds. The caveat to that is places like a nuclear reactor site where they are not even allowed in the parking lot.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:24 am
So the criminals are now aware that law abiding folks are locking up their firearms in their cars when they visit these establishments? That makes me feel much more safe!

Comment by Stones Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:30 am
I think word hit it on the head. A little free publicity never hurts.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:32 am
I was under the impression that, under the CCW law, the State Police are required to prepare the “no firearms” sign design, text, size, etc. so there is consistency throughout Illinois. As far as I can tell, Keefer’s sign is not official and is sort of an odd way to generate publicity.

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:34 am
47th

Here is the language from the ISP. Looks liek you are correct. As for publicity i would say his initial comment with the Trrib was publicity the sign probably predates the CCW law.

“The ISP will establish administrative rules consistent with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act. Updates will be posted to the ISP webpage as information about the rule making process becomes available.”

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:40 am
Wasn’t Keefer the “host” for the long planned PQ breakfast meeting the morning of the Attorney General’s funder at Harry Carey’s? Some recall it was Keefer tipping the media to the stare down.

Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:51 am
–Who’s auditing these percentages? It appears nobody. –

Seems to me the hardest thing to legislate is common sense. I think all of us can instinctively tell the difference between a pizza parlor that offers Bud and the corner bar with a fryer in back. However when you try to convert to legalize it gets irritatingly complicated.

I wonder will the Local PD be able to ask for proof that the facility has less than 50% in alcohol sales?? Or will ISP be the ones to investigate?

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:52 am
I agree with RonOglesby on this topic. Look around Milwaukee and you’ll see the signs at all kinds of places, including: bars, child care, movie theaters,etc. No one is specifically checking but the signs are around.

Comment by Belle Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 10:57 am
@Masonborn

You could easily distinguish between the pizza parlor and the corner bar by the question of whether the establishment serves hard liquor rather than these goofy percentages.

People get very very drunk at restaurants just like they do at bars so there’s really no public safety reason for this percentage of sales distinction.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:06 am
I am in South Carolina, and for reference I have looked for signage. The only one I have seen is at the hospital where I am working this week and a liquor store.

Comment by FormerParatrooper Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:14 am
==I can tell you that signs do not work==

I hope Keefer gets back to us on whether he believes this sign “works” a year from now. If it does, should he try the “Gentlemen, Please Remove Your Hats” sign again?

Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:18 am
No one monitors alot of things in this state, cause there aren’t enough employees to do so.

We don’t have enough staff to protect children from abuse, issue licenses, or staff our parks.

I’m sure Keefers loves the free pr, but if I owned a bar or restaurant, I wouldn’t care if gun toting patrons went elsewhere.

Comment by Loop Lady Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:19 am
=== So the criminals are now aware that law abiding folks are locking up their firearms in their cars when they visit these establishments? That makes me feel much more safe! ===

You’re assuming a criminal is certain to break into a car with a weapon. Just guessing, but probably at any given time 95 to 98 percent of the cars in a parking lot are not going to have a gun in them, so the criminal is going to have to get pretty lucky. There are far easier ways for a criminal to acquire a gun then scouting out parking lots of bars.

Comment by Just Observing Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:27 am
=== Who’s auditing these percentages? It appears nobody. ===

Like many government regulations, they are on the books but never followed too well by the regulators nor those being regulated. The biggest burden will be those bars/restaurants that hover around a 50/50 sales ratio… one three month period 53 percent of their sales is alcohol, the following three month period 48 percent of their sales is alcohol.

Comment by Just Observing Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:30 am
—
No one monitors alot of things in this state, cause there aren’t enough employees to do so.
—
like many things in Illinois (or any state) and the federal level there are so many laws and regulations it is impossible to actively monitor it all. You can find this everywhere.

I suggest everyone reads “Three Felonies a Day” to get an idea of this.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:42 am
@hgfriday

Okay fair enough on the pizza parlor but what about the local Mexican restaurant that offers margarita’s. Don’t forget the law requires you to abide by the same alcohol consumption limits as DUI.

To me the difference is this while there are people that get drunk at the Mexican restaurant they are few and far between. (excepting 5 may) Where as the corner tap has drunks stumbling out most of the day. It isn’t the liscensee that i am concerned with it is the drunken idiot that decides to do something stupid. Like grab a weapon from a liscensee.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:49 am
@hgFriday

To be honest with you i would love to see the permit become invalid if the permittee has consumed any alcohol.

The percentages while not perfect makes some sense. As there is a difference between ironically a steakhouse that offers drinks as well and a bar.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:53 am
Maybe Keefer just figures if all he can do is a sign, he’ll do the sign even tho he would rather the law be stronger. No inconsistency I can see.

And, sure, that list of places will cerainly stop someone bent on criminal activity, from carrying a gun. Peole don’t want to admit it, but unless these places have armed guards on duty, this is just another way of telling criminals that here’s a place full of defenseless potential victims.

Comment by Harry Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 11:58 am
i noticed independent living facilities and day programs forour most vulnerable citizens is missing. kind of seems like a no brainer to me. just sayin……..

Comment by throwing stones Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 12:05 pm
Just Observing @ 11:27 -

I can tell you that my work facility screens for weapons and cellphones. You would be shocked at how many people stash their cellphones in the bushes and flowerboxes outside because they can’t get through security. A saturday night special style handgun is probably cheaper than an iPhone. I hope they lock them in their cars rather than hiding them in the open outside. Not a great option but the best we can hope for.

Comment by Stones Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 12:06 pm
Don’t be so hard on Mr. Keefer. He’s doing business in an anti-gun area, and he merely wants to let his clientele know that their wallets will always be safe in his establishment.
Outside is a different story. That area is getting a little dicey late at night.

Comment by Cook County Commoner Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 12:32 pm
@cook

What’s the price of Steak are the wallets really safe??

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 12:40 pm
–Peole don’t want to admit it, but unless these places have armed guards on duty, this is just another way of telling criminals that here’s a place full of defenseless potential victims.–

Ah yes, Prof. LaPierre’s American Dystopia, where you’re never safe anywhere unless you’re armed. Because deep-thinking violent criminals are coming to get you.

I’ve missed those reports of armed gangs knocking over defenseless steakhouses in River North. In the areas of Chicago where the great majority of gun violence occurs, it’s not easy to find a $50 steak.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 1:13 pm
“After more than 40 years in the bar and restaurant business, I can tell you that signs do not work,” Keefer said, noting that he took down his own restaurant’s sign asking men to take off their hats while dining because it was ignored.”

I think it’s hilarious the guy equates these two.

Comment by Jay Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 3:26 pm
I just spent a few minutes pointing at the sign here that tells people not to go off leaving their personal belongings laying around. I had to do that to show the person whose stuff I just gave to Security what happens when you go off and leave your stuff. It gets given to Security and you have to go prove it’s yours to get it back. Says so right there on that sign that is routinely ignored.

Anyway, he can point at his sign while he’s throwing people out when he finds they’ve brought a gun in to his establishment.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 3:40 pm
@Word,
then of course acting as if no violence happens in “nice” places also ignores reality… such as the highly publicized stabbing in the bathroom outside the restaurant at the Westin on north Mich ave.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/westin-hotel-stabbing-jim_n_2158315.html

its not black or white, but acting as if violence ignores the nice places is also unrealistic.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:15 pm
Ron, what point are you trying to make when you equate the actions of a single lunatic to the situation in America’s ghettos?

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:21 pm
Well the carry in plAces other than bars is the norm. What Mr. Keefer seems to object to is having to post the signs at all. Hoping that if they just become a prohibited place they won’t have to post signs and make a political decision.

Seems that any movement to reduce the requirement to post any signs will now be met with resistance.

http://www.examiner.com/article/and-then-there-were-three-1

Comment by Todd Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:30 pm
@Word,
No but you claim there is no or little crime in areas where you could get a 50 dollar steak. But just because it is less likely doesnt mean much to the oncologist that was stabbed in the neck does it.

Thats my point. snarkiness about someone deciding to carry and having establishment ban guns (ban guns from only state licensed CCW holders) is kind of silly because guys like this will do whatever they want whereever they want. I am sure he did not live just off of north michigan ave.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:32 pm
Todd

You should tell PQ that South Carolina, Louisiana, and North Dakota agree with him on restaurants and guns. He might just decide to lobby against his own idea.

Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:36 pm
Ron, I still don’t know where you’re going with this. A private business owner doesn’t want firearms on his property. What’s the problem?

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 4:38 pm
Of course the no weapons sign doesn’t apply to police officers who want to eat there. Some how , they have mystical calming powers that normal citizens don’t have.

Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 5:08 pm
===they have mystical calming powers that normal citizens don’t have.===

I don’t know from mystic powers, but police have training and, more importantly, almost unlimted insurance coverage. I find that calming.

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 5:21 pm
@Word
I dont have a problem with it. Its his place, his rules. You just made a comment about how there is little crime where you can get a 50 dollar steak… I pointed out violent crime still happens there.

Comment by RonOglesby Tuesday, Jul 30, 13 @ 9:46 pm
==“After more than 40 years in the bar and restaurant business, I can tell you that signs do not work,” Keefer said, noting that he took down his own restaurant’s sign asking men to take off their hats while dining because it was ignored.”

I think it’s hilarious the guy equates these two.==

The guy with the hat is blatantly thumbing his nose at the restaurant and he doesn’t care who knows it. Who is going to know which patron has a gun HIDDEN IN THEIR CLOTHING? Seems like a similar comparison. F your signs.

Comment by Gribble Wednesday, Jul 31, 13 @ 7:55 am
I don’t drink armed, if a predator is willing to sit and watch they MAY notice if a person disarms and stores the weapon. But just because a quarter of households are armed, doesn’t mean a quarter of persons carry in public. I do but it is a pain, some times literally, to do so. Why do you think so much happened that isn’t countered.

Comment by Drake_Burrwood Wednesday, Jul 31, 13 @ 1:50 pm