Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

How far can that choice go?

Posted in:

Illinois

* From a Dispatch-Argus story about Republican gubernatorial candidate Bruce Rauner…

Mr. Rauner has long been involved with the charter school movement in Chicago. If elected to the governor’s office, he said he would push for more competition among schools across Illinois.

“I think we’ve got to create competition and choice to the broken monopoly that’s our system,” he said. “We need charter schools, we need vouchers.” […]

Illinois has a cap of 120 charter schools, with a maximum of 75 allowed in Chicago and 45 for the rest of the state. That cap, Mr. Rauner said, is supported by teachers’ unions and should be lifted. […]

Mr. Rauner said parents should be allowed to choose which public school their children attend.

“We should have vouchers, so that when a school is failing parents can afford to take their child to whatever schools work for them,” he said.

Since he clouted his own kid into Payton Prep after “moving” from Winnetka to Chicago, perhaps he’d be willing to let kids who attend sub-par Chicago schools enroll at Winnetka’s New Trier High School?

Now, that would be a dramatic gesture.

* Also, I have yet to see a study that shows charter schools as a whole are outperforming “regular” public schools in Illinois. I actually like the idea of charter schools if it gives parents real choices and the possibility of opting out of the industrial education model. But, so far, charters in general aren’t doing anything spectacular here except helping to break the teachers’ unions and provide patronage opportunities for the political establishment.

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:14 am

Comments

There are some good models out there–look at the KIPP schools and at YES Prep in Houston–but they require a high concentration of time and money and student/parent commitment.

Rauner is just parroting the same old GOP line about “competition” in education. I get so tired of the “run it like a business” line of bull.

Comment by Ray del Camino Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:27 am
===Mr. Rauner said parents should be allowed to choose which public school their children attend.===

“Look, it works, when I muscled in with clout my DENIED Winnetka living daughter denying a Chicago child an opportunity, I didn’t feel bad for the other child, I mean, ‘Go and have YOUR Mom or Dad Clout you!’ was my response. ‘Advocating’ for my DENIED New Trier living Daughter is something anyone should be able to do, anywhere … see, I want everyone to be able to ‘game’ the system, that way its not cheating worthy kids for clout-heavy kids who were DENIED … no, I want all kids to have no scruples too. I want all parents to just ‘Advocate Away’ and don’t give one thought about others …

But, I will say, I can’t stand the public teachers union, even though I clouted my DENIED daughter from New Trier to be taught by them, and I especially do not like the Chicago Schools, esepcially as my DENIED clouted daughter was riding to school, passing the possible kids’ homes I denied the chance to go to a Chicago School.

This should clear it up pretty good.

I want to thank Rahm Emanuel for all his help, well, Rahm, you got hundreds of thousands of ‘thank yous” haven’t you… and Rich Daley, who had got just as many ‘thank yous’ as well, and to my ‘Private Phone Line Pal’ Arne Duncan. ‘Ar’, you’re the best… I mean it.

So, parents of Illinois, your own ‘clout-line’ is possible, and Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner… We … are going to ‘advocate’ … for you”

Dope.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:29 am
Bruce thinks public schools are a “monopoly.” Is he upset about the Pentagon having a monopoly in defending the nation or the Chicago Fire Department having a monopoly on fighting fires?

Comment by Frank Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:32 am
Do you really want to ” run schools like a business?”, You can have a model that is cost efficient. Class size of 45, pay little for teachers (as they are only babysitting), cut down on facilities, rote teach to the test, only teach math and English, and eliminate special education. But if you can pay, then only the best.

Comment by Newman Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:36 am
–Mr. Rauner said parents should be allowed to choose which public school their children attend.

“We should have vouchers, so that when a school is failing parents can afford to take their child to whatever schools work for them,” he said. –

So no parochial schools for vouchers? I imagine the dioceses around the state would like some clarification.

This being Illinois, let’s take a hard look at the taxpayer-funded contracts being awarded at charter schools, including those run by Rauner and his hedgie pals, before we expand.

The UNO experience is not encouraging.

And yes, I’m sure the folks in Winnetka will welcome the kids from North Chicago and their vouchers with open arms.

Heck, the folks at Hinsdale Central don’t even want the kids from Hinsdale South.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:37 am
Here’s your study Rich, from the Illinois Policy Institute on CPS charter high schools vs. public high schools. 7 out of the top 10 open enrollment high schools are charters. athttp://illinoispolicy.org/news/article.asp?ArticleSource=3489

Comment by bmcosti Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:38 am
Not sure that link came through correctly. http://illinoispolicy.org/news/article.asp?ArticleSource=3489

Comment by bmcosti Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:38 am
Inadequate school funding and despicable public policy (like the pro-ration of general state aid at 89% that disproportionally impacts poor school districts and poor kids) guarantee that the industrial model of schooling will continue. High class sizes, questionable facilities (classrooms that get to over 100 degrees in hot weather) and the so-called reform movement of the last 20 years have done nothing to improve education. Take away the tools to do the job and then blame the workers for the quality of the work…… Disaggregate for poverty and check out how well our schools are actually doing. Quit pre-determing which students will be successful by manipulating funding. Understand that the future of our country depends on a strong educated middle class and quit catering to the small group of super rich who don’t want to pay their fair share.

Comment by nobody Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:39 am
What Frank said.

Comment by Chi Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:42 am
You can say he is putting his money where is mouth is

http://raunercollegeprep.noblenetwork.org/

Comment by OneMan Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:45 am
What Rich said.

I’m for vouchers if it allows kids from Chicago to go to schools out in the suburbs, say at New Trier.

It’ll never happen.

Comment by ZC Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:47 am
The concept of charter schools is a good one. Many public schools are nothing more than babysitters and lousy ones at that. But as Rich points out some of these charter organization have become patronage and nepotism havens on the taxpayer dime. But that’s just how things are done in Illinois I guess. Sad

Comment by Fed up Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:54 am
Geez.

Grad Rate and College-going outcomes: http://educationnext.org/the-unknown-world-of-charter-high-schools/

Elementary reading and math: http://credo.stanford.edu/documents/NCSS%202013%20Final%20Draft.pdf

Gold-standard, lottery-based study: http://educationnext.org/findingsfromthecityofbigshoulders/

Not to mention the descriptive studies from the Illinois Policy Institute.

Comment by Collin Hitt Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 9:55 am
It’s ok to say you’re for choice, but if you close neighborhood schools and open charter schools instead, it’s not really giving parents a choice, are you? And maybe if we funded the public schools in Chicago at the rate the charter schools are funded they would perform much better … of course, the public schools have to keep the under-performing kids, and the charters are allowed to kick those kids out.

Comment by Melissa Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:03 am
- OneMan -,

My 308 Oswego friend…

Let’s be clear about the money and the Rauner School;

Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner …sent his DENIED Daughter to Payton Prep by clouting her in, ensuring she took another Chicago kids spot…

Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner … didn not clout his DENIED Daughter… into the Rauner School…

Sending your daughter, through clout, speaks so much more than any dollar spent “for the children”.

Rauner mad a “choice” for his money, and Payton Prep Clouter made a “choice” for his DENIED Daughter. That is that.

Oswego v. Oswego East football is just around the corner too!

With respect, - OneMan -.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:14 am
If Mr. Rauner is so enamored with charters, why didn’t his child attend the charter school that bears his name? Doesn’t he like Rauner Noble Street Charter’s “special sauce” so touted by Rahm Emanuel?

Comment by Liz Brown Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:15 am
There are enough available charters for schools to have a thorough multi-year experiment to find what actually works best. That is the GA’s goal, and it is certainly expansive enough.

It is not a closed question, as IPI would have it, that charter schools are beneficial and effective overall.

It is clearly not true that “choice” is always the ideological cure-all, for IPI.

Comment by walkinfool Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:16 am
OW — I think last year was the first year for the charter with his name on it (or perhaps the second), don’t think it was around when his kid was HS age…

Guess I am a bad guy, but him clouting his own kid into a good school doesn’t bother me as much as those who let him do it. I guess I don’t have an issue with someone using their influence with others to help their own kid.

Also at least at the Sophomore level East beat Oswego in VB last night (yeah)….

Comment by OneMan Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:18 am
- OneMan -,

===I guess I don’t have an issue with someone using their influence with others to help their own kid.===

Unless its “your” child, who was on the “wait list”, and passed all the rigors, but was denied a seat for a child, a Winnetka living child too … by clout.

Sometimes we all need to be better for those who DESERVE for us to be better.

I hear ya, appreciate your candor.

Oswego v. Oswego East, yeah, parents don’t care if the kids go to either school, no problems there ..

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:23 am
If Charters are scoring better than public schools, it’s because they can cherry pick their students. Vouchers best at letting parents pick the schools, instead of some schools getting to pick their students, while others left with the kids not selected. Vouchers puts the power into the hands of parents. If Rauner’s for them, it’s to his credit.

Comment by Bill_Baar Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:25 am
Sorry if I’m suspicious, but there is no school report card from any of the charter schools that can provide comparable data to other public schools. How many special education students are there? How many students drop out or are transferred due to behavior problems or other issues throughout the 4 years? How many cannot speak English? Are all the ACT test scores counted? Although the enrollment is “open” I can say from first hand experience this is rarely true. This lack of transparency with Charter schools is troublesome, especially as our tax dollars are used to pay for these facilities. Why didn’t Rauner send his daughter to Pritzker College Prep instead of Payton?

Comment by Newman Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:27 am
Charter schools cherry pick the best students and drain funding from everyone else. The Boston experience includes this gem:

=== Commonwealth charter schools are not “level funded” but are “average funded” by the sending district.

***

To briefly sum it up, to educate a Regular Ed student in a [Boston Public Schools] traditional school cost $11,855. However, when you add the cost of all the BPS Special Ed and ELL students, the cost “averages” out to $15,227.

Charter schools are paid the “average” $15,227. even though their population of students is mostly regular ed, and in no way reflects the English Language Learner and Special Education demographic of the Boston Public Schools! ===

http://mikethemadbiologist.com/2013/06/02/lies-damn-lies-and-charter-schools-charter-chicannery-in-the-commonwealth/

Comment by Bill White Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:31 am
BMCOST, that IPI paper is hardly scholarship. It’s a posting of some ACT scores and then a few pages of the usual talking points.

There is a lot of scholarship out there on charter schools and its a mixed bag. They’ve hardly been shown to be a magic bullet.

But they have been magnets for cheating scandals and hinky clouted developers in a number of places including Florida, New York and DC.

And, of course, we have UNO in Chicago.

By the way, if you read the IPI paper, they think UNO is doing a swell job with the charter schools.

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:31 am
By the way, “Mike the Mad Biologist” has one of the best blogger tag lines I have ever seen.

Comment by Bill White Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:32 am
Milwaukee has had charter schools for decades and the results are mixed at best.

Comment by Bill White Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:33 am
Heh! What Word said . . .

=== Heck, the folks at Hinsdale Central don’t even want the kids from Hinsdale South. ===

Comment by Bill White Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:33 am
I know Rauner should be outed for using his clout to get his daughter in Sweetness High, but what about Arne Duncan who allowed all of this to occur? He should be criticized for being the one to be pushed over as well.

Comment by Denny Savard Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:35 am
- Savy! -

When Arne Duncan, or as the Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner calls him, “Ar”…when Duncan decides to run for Governor, as a “refromer, shaking up Springield”… and as a Repubican …I will then focus on “Ar”…

Until then, Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner gets the jacket for all that “advocating” for his DENIED New Trier Daughter taking a spot of a “wait list” Chicago Child.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:40 am
==I’m for vouchers if it allows kids from Chicago to go to schools out in the suburbs, say at New Trier.

It’ll never happen.==

It kinda is, but without the vouchers. Hinsdale HS District claims 100 students at Central and 400 at South are attending school without being legal residents of the District. They will be cracking down on those who stay with Aunt Betty during the week and go “home” on the weekends.

Comment by Darienite Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:45 am
- Darienite -,

When you can afford a “Gold Coast” Condo, and you want you DENIED New Trier Daughter to go to Payton Prep, you just buy the Condo and “Advocate” for your DENIED Daughter through Clout.

Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner is finding out being ethical and and a reformer is hard!

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:48 am
The problem with downstate charter schools is that they generally don’t exist. By allowing local school boards to veto the creation of any competition in their district no charters will be created throughout large swaths of the state.

Vouchers and open enrollment are key to any true school reform.

Comment by Downstate Illinois Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:50 am
===The problem with downstate charter schools is that they generally don’t exist.===

Because you have few, if any, billionaires wanting to get in on the action.

Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 10:53 am
Why does this voucher/charter/public/private topic scare everyone so much? If people have vouchers and the current options are so good then the people will choose to stay where they are. Problem solved. For the folks who don’t want to stay where they are then their problem is solved also. Vouchers are the compromise that I think actually can give people an avenue to a solution. Go or Stay.

I also wonder why the choice people almost always far choice only with “qualifications”. Why do we need some arbitrary test score, arbitrary violence level, arbitrary income level… If choice is good then just give people choice?

Comment by Bobby Hill Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 11:03 am
–Whites are escaping the 3rd world take over of urban public schools–

Third world…. seriously?

How long do you have to be a citizen or resident of the United States before you’re no longer considered a Third World invader driving out “whites,” in your opinion?

And are charter schools in urban districts only open to “whites?”

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 11:12 am
–If people have vouchers and the current options are so good then the people will choose to stay where they are.–

Do you envision any problems when large percentages of CPS students take their vouchers and seek to enroll in Winnetka, Wilmette, Oak Park, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, River Forest, Oak Lawn, Evanston, etc.?

Comment by wordslinger Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 11:19 am
The problem with charter school studies is that charter schools, even open enrollment, end up with better students. This is simply because many parents don’t even bother filling out a charter school application. And 100% of those parents’ kids end up in the non-charter neighborhood school.

Comment by Robert the Bruce Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 12:04 pm
Do you envision any problems when large percentages of CPS students take their vouchers and seek to enroll in Winnetka, Wilmette, Oak Park, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, River Forest, Oak Lawn, Evanston, etc.?

Yes I do. They will be the weakest in their class probably a grade level behind, plus we can’t get CPS parents to show up at parent teacher conferences without offering bribes ( gift cards). While I think vouchers are a good idea, they won’t solve systematic problems. Children in Single parent homes don’t do as well, education must be emphasized. The problems at many schools are not the teachers or the facilities as lacking as they may be.

Comment by Fed up Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 12:10 pm
===…only 20 races…===

Well, only 20, that should be easy enough to run for any Caucus …

Yikes!

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 12:31 pm
Sorry, wrong post.

Dope!

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 12:33 pm
“Do you envision any problems when large percentages of CPS students take their vouchers and seek to enroll in Winnetka, Wilmette, Oak Park, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, River Forest, Oak Lawn, Evanston, etc.?”

None that the good folks at Winnetka, Wilmette, Oak Park, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, River Forest, Oak Lawn, Evanston, etc. won’t work to solve. They are great schools, correct?

Comment by Bobby Hill Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 12:36 pm
Rich,

While it is true that the plutocrats have no interest in downstate schools for obvious reasons, I do not sense any interest in Charter schools in rural areas. At least I personally do not hear of it.

Comment by Federalist Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 1:16 pm
=== perhaps he’d be willing to let kids who attend sub-par Chicago schools enroll at Winnetka’s New Trier High School? ===

I should hope he would. That is the entire principle. Not charter schools for some, education wastelands for others.

Free and open choice. For all.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 1:31 pm
A good issue for Rauner. Dillard’s running mate Jil Tracy voted against a truly historic voucher program in 2010. Unforgivable.

Comment by too obvious Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 2:26 pm
Schools that can select their students-choosing the best students –and who reserve the right to “dismiss” any problem students–SHOULD be excellent. And are. Public schools don’t have those options. The students tend to be as good as their parents in the community.

Comment by JC Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 2:34 pm
Should Arne ever try to run for office in Illinois, he is going to get a serious wilding not only from Oswego willy but also Illinois progresssives in general. Only Arne can compete with Rauner as their bete noire.

Comment by Springfield Wife Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 2:46 pm
- too obvious -,

Just remember, you can bring out a child to talk about Payton Prep Clouter Bruce Rauner denied them the chance to get off a “wait list” by getting his DENIED Daughter in over them.

The voucher votes need a face for some to make it really hit home. PPC Rauner will not be able to hide from a “Susie Student” if Brady, Dillard, or Rutherford get one to come forward.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 2:59 pm
A few observations:

1. based on the research, charters generally perform slighly better than the worst public schools in Chicago.

2. anyone who rereads #1 will realize it is nothing to brag about.

3. In downstate Illinois, the teachers that Rauner vilifies are largely Republican, which is part of the reason downstate republicans oppose pension reform.

i note with some irony that the education platform Rauner hopes to lure conservative voters with is Darwinian in nature.

Comment by Juvenal Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 3:05 pm
I agree with Bill White @ 10:31 am and JC @ 2:34 pm about charter schools.

It also should be noted that the real reason that some people support the business model of competition with charter schools is the potential of billions of dollars in profits.

Comment by Ruby Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 4:01 pm
“Schools that can select their students-choosing the best students –and who reserve the right to “dismiss” any problem students–SHOULD be excellent. And are. Public schools don’t have those options. The students tend to be as good as their parents in the community.

Public Schools dismiss problem children all the time. Check with your local ROE for proof.

Comment by Bobby Hill Friday, Sep 13, 13 @ 4:06 pm