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Chutzpah, fruitless and in the middle

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* The National Republican Congressional Committee is running a radio ad targeting freshman Democrat Bill Enyart for causing the government shutdown. I kid you not.

Here’s the NRCC ad script…

How out-of-touch is Bill Enyart with Illinois families? So out-of-touch that he voted to shut down the government in order to protect Congress’ taxpayer funded healthcare!

While Washington forces ObamaCare on Illinois families, Enyart votes to give himself a break.

Instead of living by the same rules as everyone else, members of Congress receive special subsidies to pay for their healthcare.

And what are Illinois families left with? Higher premiums, higher health care costs and less access to quality care.

Washington is broken and it’s clear Enyart is part of the problem.

Call Bill Enyart today and tell him it’s time to put Illinois families first and stop the sweetheart deals for Congress.

Paid for by the National Republican Congressional Committee and not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee. www-dot-NRCC-dot-org. The National Republican Congressional Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.

* Statement from the NRCC…

“Bill Enyart has proven time and time again how out-of-touch he is with Southern Illinois families. He’s put his own taxpayer-funded healthcare above the needs of his constituents, and after voting to shut down the government this week it’s clear that his priorities do not lie with hardworking Southern Illinois families.” – NRCC Spokeswoman Danielle Varallo

* Meanwhile, here’s a communique from the DCCC about an Illinois Republican…

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is launching a paid grassroots campaign to tell Congressman Peter Roskam to end their government shutdown, a manufactured crisis that he created. The DCCC’s automated phone calls will connect the people of Illinois directly to Congressman Roskam so they can tell him to “stop the nonsense and focus on common sense solutions that protect our health care and grow our economy.”

An example of the call script running against Congressman Peter Roskam is below:

While you were sleeping, Congressman Peter Roskam shut down the government. You heard that right. But even worse – Congressman Roskam is still getting paid – and he’s not listening to our frustration. All because of his demand to take away your benefits and protect insurance company profits.

Call Congressman Roskam at (630) 232-0006 to end the shutdown.

Roskam’s district is overwhelmingly Republican, so I really doubt that the national polls and these robocalls will have any impact at all.

* One person who is truly in the middle of all this is freshman Republican Rodney Davis, who faces a primary opponent from his right and a well-funded Democrat to his left. From a Davis press release…

“Like most of those I represent, I remain opposed to Obamacare, but a government shutdown is absolutely unacceptable,” said Davis. “It’s unfortunate that the President and leaders in Congress were unable to negotiate in good faith to put forth just a 6-week plan to fund the federal government. The Senate has even proven to be unwilling to remove a special rule to allow a federal subsidy on health care coverage for Members of Congress and their staff. We owe it to the hardworking taxpayers to continue working as quickly as possible to compromise and get this done. I remain ready and willing to work with my colleagues and leaders in the House and the Senate, Republicans and Democrats, until we come to an agreement to fund our government.”

* From the Democrats’ House Majority PAC…

Weeks ago, Rodney Davis proudly proclaimed he’d do “whatever it takes” to end Obamacare.

And Davis followed it up with action, voting four separate, distinct times to shut down the government over the Affordable Care Act.

And now? As it’s clear voters blame Republicans for shutting down the government, shuttering the National Parks, furloughing hundreds of thousands of workers, and potentially delaying veterans’ benefits:

Davis: “I remain opposed to Obamacare, but a government shutdown is absolutely unacceptable.”

POLITICO — Vulnerable Republicans: End the shutdown

* From WUIS…

[Democratic opponent Ann Callis] immediately pounced, saying Davis helped force the shutdown to score points with what she calls his “right wing base.”

“He’s one of many of the Republicans that are doing this. I mean if you don’t like a law you don’t shut down the government. It is harming, and it’s already coming out now. Hundreds of thousands of people are being affected by this. And it’s not the right way to govern. It’s just not.”

In a statement, Congressman Davis calls the government shutdown “unacceptable,” although he has consistently voted with House Republicans who are attempting to dismantle the Affordable Care Act.

As always, try to take a deep breath and remain calm in comments. DC politics can really bring out the nutbags, so let’s not encourage them.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:05 am

Comments

==“I remain opposed to Obamacare, but a government shutdown is absolutely unacceptable.”==

Davis then added, “Except when I don’t get my way on obstructing Obamacare. Then it’s totally acceptable.”

Comment by TooManyJens Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:07 am
NPR said during my morning commute that yesterday was one of the most successful fundraising days the DCCC has had in quite a while.

Comment by Dirty Red Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:14 am
Davis is a prime example of a GOP lawmaker who could get stung by the actions of the anarchists.

Conversely, I imagine Enyart, Bustos and Schneider will benefit from their actions.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:14 am
“Higher premiums, higher health care costs, and less access to quality health care.” Evidence? Universal?

The claims (on both sides) are backed up by hot air.

Comment by Sir Reel Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:17 am
It’s unfortunate that left liberals control the Dem party and Tea Partiers are such an influence in the GOP. What we need are rational Republicans and center Dems to be in control…sadly Gerrymandering has squashed many of them.

Comment by Center Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:20 am
Sir Reel-

My premiums went up over 150% and drove me out of my group plan (you can keep your insurance, right?) and out of my preferred set of doctors (you can keep your doctors, right?) and now I have high deductible temporary insurance until hopefully there is some stability in the market.

I’ve had insurance for almost two decades, and I’ve never had problems finding insurance that would cover if my wife got pregnant, only this year as a result of ACA has that been the case.

And if the pricing I’ve seen out of the exchanges is any indication (for as much as you can actually get to that pricing), I’d pay even MORE than the 150% premium hike for LESS insurance than I had last year.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:24 am
When your enemy becomes the enemy of himself, do no more…

Comment by nothin's easy Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:26 am
@wordslinger - Why should Davis get a pass of not being treated as a anarchist himself?

He didn’t have to vote with the anarchists (people like Peter King didn’t) or sign that letter. Even if he signed it out of fear of the Erika Harold primary challenge, is it really more respectable to be a reasonable person doing the will of anarchists you’re afraid of than be an anarchist yourself?

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:27 am
==It’s unfortunate that left liberals control the Dem party==

They really, really don’t. Today’s Democrats are right-wingers relative to most of the developed world.

Comment by TooManyJens Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:27 am
=== Gerrymandering has squashed many of them. ===

Gerrymandering has squashed many of them. Illinois is in the odd position of having a Democratic map.

Nationally, the situation is reversed. Recall that in the aggregate, Democratic candidates for the US House received about 1.5 million more votes than Republican candidates for the US House.

Unfortunately for people such as Rodney Davis too many of his fellow Republicans live in House districts which allow them to defeat Democratic challengers by a 70/30 margin.

Davis lacks that cushion and is truly stuck in a jam.

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:28 am
@John Bambenek

Good faith efforts to repeal (or modify) the ACA are entirely legitimate.

Shutting down the government or blocking debt ceiling increases as a tactic to leverage ACA policy changes very much reminds me of Pat Quinn’s tactic of using the line item veto to leverage pension reform.

Both tactics are destructive of republican government (small r) regardless of the merits of the underlying policy dispute.

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:31 am
HGF, I see your point. I don’t think he will get a pass.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:32 am
@Center - How do you figure that left liberals control the Democratic Party? The CR the liberals are demanding be passed cleanly funds the government at the sequester levels that Democrats hate and that Republicans loved during the last Congressional standoff.

Left liberals wanted a public option or at the very least a Medicare buy-in option for people 55+. Left liberals want MORE government spending. They wanted higher taxes. They want the privacy intrusions restricted. They want harsher Wall Street crackdowns and a return to Glass-Steagall. They haven’t gotten these liberal goals from the moderate/conservative Democratic leadership that since the stimulus has cut the budget several times in compromises with the Republicans and kept the filibuster in place despite historic Republican obstruction of routine presidential appointments in the administration and federal courts. But left liberals bite their tongues and put up with it because they view the alternative that much worse and stunts like the GOP is pulling right now have the Democrats more united than ever.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:36 am
Bill White-

I takes two sides to have a shutdown. The House of Representatives is entirely in its right to use it’s budget powers to shape policy. Every budget going back to the very first one has done this. At what point did it become acceptable for the President to dictate the terms of the budget process with absolute power?

Quite frankly, the House has actually done budgets, we wouldn’t be in the CR mess if the Senate and/or President were participating in that process.

What you have is two camps, one which is negotiating with itself (first 1 year delay of whole law, the devices and congressional subsidies, then conference committees) and the other side saying no. Give us what we want or we vote everything down.

It takes two sides to have an entrenched and intractable conflict.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:37 am
To put it another way, the chief and pre-eminent political problem we face is the kneejerk and ingrained tendency to make one party the saint and the other side the devil. Both parties do it.

When you frame everything like that, you don’t work with the other side, you seek their elimination.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:40 am
Republicans are red
Democrats are blue
Neither one of them
gives a d**n about you!

Comment by train111 Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:41 am
@John:

I don’t have a problem with the Republicans taking votes on the ACA. But this nonsense about the Senate and the President simply saying no is laughable. Of course they are going to say no. It’s time for this to stop and for people to move on. The ACA is NOT GOING ANYWHERE as long as the Senate is controlled by Democrats and Obama is President. It’s a waste of time to have this continuous ACA battle when it isn’t going anywhere. When you have the votes to do something with it, fine, do it. But this is an exercise in lunacy. But if people are willing to support this garbage in Washington I guess that’s their business. But people who think that the ACA is going to be changed or defunded are living in a fantasyland. Have your votes to get on record (although I don’t know how many times you have to vote on the same thing) and freaking move on. I’m tired of the whining and foot stomping, frankly, because some in the Republican party can’t get their way. Get over it.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:44 am
@John Bambenek

I suppose we will see how this plays out.

And yet, Abraham Lincoln’s Cooper Union speech does strike me as being relevant to the current controversy.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/10/rule-or-ruin

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:45 am
==It’s unfortunate that left liberals control the Dem party==

Actually, they don’t.

I would love to see Harry Reid return a C.R. that lowered the Medicare eligibility age to minus 9 months (i.e. Medicare for all)

For me, Obamacare already is a significant compromise from the single payer solutions I prefer.

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:48 am
Historical analogies are never precise, but Rep. Davis might wish to consider the reaction of another downstate Republican when a legislative minority sought to overturn federal law that had just won majority approval in a national election:

—

To James T. Hale [1]

Confidential. Hon. J. T. Hale Springfield, Ill. Jan’y. 11th 1861.
My dear Sir—Yours of the 6th is received. I answer it only because I fear you would misconstrue my silence. What is our present condition? We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government shall be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices. In this they are either attempting to play upon us, or they are in dead earnest. Either way, if we surrender, it is the end of us, and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum. A year will not pass, till we shall have to take Cuba as a condition upon which they will stay in the Union. They now have the Constitution, under which we have lived over seventy years, and acts of Congress of their own framing, with no prospect of their being changed; and they can never have a more shallow pretext for breaking up the government, or extorting a compromise, than now. There is, in my judgment, but one compromise which would really settle the slavery question, and that would be a prohibition against acquiring any more territory. Yours very truly, A. LINCOLN.

Annotation:

[1] Copy, DLC-RTL. James T. Hale, Republican congressman from Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, wrote January 6 as a member of a committee of congressmen from the border states, recommending an amendment to the Constitution denying the right of Congress to abolish slavery in the states, a joint resolution declaring that abolition could not take place in the District of Columbia without consent of Maryland and citizens of the District, an amendment of the fugitive slave law and that states repeal all personal liberty bills, and that the U.S. be divided at 36(deg) 30′, all territories north of that line to be free and all those south of it to be free or slave as they chose (DLC-RTL).

Source:

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 4.
Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/lincoln4/1:268?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

Comment by olddog Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:50 am
Demoralized-

To summarize your point, the sainted Democrats are as pure as the wind-driven snow and those devilish Republicans are just hell-bent on destruction.

I can’t see how your comment doesn’t fit into what I say is wrong with the political environment at all.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:54 am
I suspect the internet & expansion of cable “news” has brought us to this unprecidented level of partisanship. I am looking forward to reading Chris Matthews’ new book “Tip and the Gipper” about the relationship between Tip O’Neil and Ronald Reagan. I’m just not sure what the end game is - most people like their Congressman but hate the institution.

Comment by Stones Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:57 am
@hisgirlfriday- I’m not sure what Davis can do other than vote for the bills Boehner brings to the floor.

Comment by Johnny Q. Suburban Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:07 am
=== To summarize your point, the sainted Democrats are as pure as the wind-driven snow and those devilish Republicans are just hell-bent on destruction. ===

Nah. Democratic politicians are no less venal or corrupt than Republicans. But no more so, either.

That said, shutting down the government or refusing the raise the debt ceiling simply are the wrong venues to re-fight political battles lost elsewhere.

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:09 am
JB, I don’t understand your beef. The shutdown was the stated goal of the House GOP anarchists if they didn’t get their way.

They didn’t, so here we are. They don’t seem too concerned about it.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:10 am
It’s hard to see any damage for the Democrats when the Republicans are successfully tearing their party apart on this single issue.

Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:11 am
What hisgirlfriday said. Obama was willing to compromise in 2011 when he offered $2.8 billion in spending cuts to $800 million in tax revenue. The GOP to my knowledge rejected that. Boehner said around that time that in the end, he got 98% of what he wanted.

Also, Mr. Bambenek, insurance premiums rose by around less than half in 2008-2012 or 2013 than they did in or around 1999-2007. The primary reason for this was the economic slowdown, not the ACA. I’m real sorry that this happened to you. There apparently will be some losers in the ACA. There should also be a lot of winners. The ACA is a work in progress. There are glitches in the computer system, and there will almost certainly be other problems with it. I hope that in the long run, we can fix as much as possible with the ACA or move to another compulsory/universal health insurance system.

The ACA is based on a conservative idea, having people buy private health insurance themselves, as opposed to paying into a fund that is administered by the government. Can you imagine what the Tea Party would have done if the ACA was a government-run single payer system?

Rich, Mark Brown used one of your lines in his Chicago Sun Times column today: Rube Goldberg contraption. Mr. Brown supports expanding health insurance and said he’s hopeful that the ACA will work.

The human and economic costs of people not having health insurance are very bad and are not becoming of a first-world country. I recently had an injury and had surgery and recuperation that cost a lot of money. A family member of mine was just in a car crash and got injured (not too seriously), but medical care will still cost a lot of money. If we didn’t have health insurance, we would suffer more than necessary. I got surgery three days after my injury, which was critical to my recovery, thanks to my insurance. We would be saddled with catastrophic bills. If we were unable to pay the bills, someone else would eat the costs, and we would risk bankruptcy. How many others are in our shoes? Thousands if not millions of people.

As far as the GOP saying they are doing what the voters want, they are wrong. The polls I’ve seen show that voters reject the ACA, but they overwhelmingly do not want a government shutdown to end the ACA. Also, voters overwhelmingly supported a minimum wage increase, and the House GOP voted it down, and voters overwhelmingly supported expanding background checks for firearms purchases, and the GOP voted that down too in the Senate. The Democrats also didn’t saddle the CR with their own agenda items, such as immigration reform and expanding background checks.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:12 am
I have no idea why this bothers me so — after all, who wants to defend Congress these says? — but can we please put the lie that Congress us exempt from ACA/Obamacare/health care reform/ whatever you want to call it?

Congress and it’s staff are actually in a worse position than any other Ametican under health care reform because they are mandated to give up their current insurance and get insurance through the exchanges. Now the proposal is to mandate that Congress stop offering health insurance as a benefit to its employees. No other set of Americans is prohibited from getting insurance through their employer, and no other group of Americans would be prohibited from having an employer pay for health benefits.

I guess because this is such an Orwellian lie, it drives me crazy to the point that I’m actually defending Congress!

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/congress-and-an-exemption-from-obamacare/

Comment by the Other Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:14 am
I do not agree with the shutdown, but all Obama had to do was agree to delay the penalties for individuals just like he delayed it for business until 2015. Why should he have the ability to pick apart the ACA, but not allow the house the same ability?

Comment by Really Illinois? Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:14 am
wordslinger-

I suppose my beef is throwing around terms like hostage-takers, anarchists and otherwise using rhetoric that’s about two steps away from someone picking up a weapon to defend “their country”.

Your handle is wordslinger, I would think you would show some capacity for the use of the English language to know hyperbole when you see it.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:16 am
From Websters:

Anarchism

: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

In the case of the folks running the show in the House GOP, is that really hyperbole?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:20 am
wordslinger-

Yes, it is unequivocally the case that its hyperbole and you know it.

Point to me a congressional republican that would say, legalize cannibalism. If you can’t find one, you are objectively and unquestionably full of crap.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:30 am
@ReallyIllinois? -

I believe that one unstated reason that Democrats will not suspend the individual mandate (because of the way it would jack up everyone’s health insurance premiums)is because of the way the Supreme Court ruled on Obamacare.

If the individual mandate was suspended or repealed, Republicans could run straight to the Supreme Court and seek to have the Affordable Care Act thrown out entirely because the way that John Roberts found it constitutional was under the taxing and spending clause. If there’s no tax penalty for not buying insurance (the individual mandate), then that takes out what was enough to make it constitutional in the eyes of Roberts and we could be in for an even bigger mess.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:33 am
What part of “no” does the Tea Party not understand? The problem with this situation is not a political party fighting against what it doesn’t like, it’s that a political party doesn’t know when to stop fighting. The president was reelected with a large margin of the vote, the ACA was upheld by SCOTUS and legislators failed to repeal the law over 40 times. Over 40 times. Give it up. This angers me. The left and unions had their hissy fit and tried to recall Gov. Scott Walker. It failed. They moved on and will wait until the next election. It’s time the Tea Party did the same thing. This is what makes me dig in my heels and not want to compromise. Give.It.Up.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:33 am
I’m not following you on the cannibalism, JB. I’m sure everyone’s agin it.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:37 am
@JohnBambenek -

I understand your beef with the use of the hostage takers rhetoric, but anarchists is fairly precise given the libertarian strain gaining sway over the Republican Party at the moment.

Ted Cruz is on record when he was running for Senate saying that forcing a government shutdown would be no big deal because government shutdowns are just like weekends and we don’t really need as much government as we have.

This sort of anti-government rhetoric is why the GOP really seems to have no chance of winning the messaging/media fight over the shutdown because at the same time as more establishment Republicans like Boehner or Rodney Davis might want to argue they didn’t want a shutdown and the obstinate Democrats forced them to this point, you have some Republicans at the same time joking about how good it is the shutdown happened because they don’t like the government anyway and the things getting shut down are stuff like the EPA, National Labor Relations Board, CDC, etc… that they don’t really care about or like anyway.

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:42 am
Wordslinger-

Let’s spell it out.

: a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

Key word… “all”.

So unless you can find a Republican that advocates legalizing cannibalism (or for that matter, a myriad of other things), then you know you’re full of crap. There is no such thing as “moderate” anarchy.

Limited government is not synonymous with no government.

Less caricatures and more reasoned discussion, k thx ok bye.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:45 am
@ hisgirlfriday

I agree with the reasons you gave as to why it is such a sticking point. With that being said, there is not currently a plan to enforce the indvidual mandate. If you check the box “yes”, nobody will question you and you do not have to provide any proof of coverage. So if people are willing to cheat on their taxes(lol) the mandate has no teeth.

I think we are in for a mess either way, many people who need access to the exchange will not have it because the health insurance provided by their employer for the EMPLOYEE ONLY will be less than 9.5% of the employees pay. Their employer might require them to pay 100% of their spouse and children’s coverage making it unaffordable for the whole family. If this is the case, the family is still blocked from the exchange. They could potentially be in a worse situation than before ACA went into implementation.

With all that being said, shutting the govt down is not the right approach in my eyes.

Comment by Really Illinois? Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:46 am
“It takes two sides to have an entrenched and intractable conflict. ”

Actually, it doesn’t. Many GOP ran claiming they would shut down the government. Check the videos! They should embrace their success instead of blaming someone else. It was their goal, they accomplished it, they win!

Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:47 am
RetiredStateWorker-

No, if you want to cite videos, you link them. I’m not going to troll YouTube for 4 hours to find what you say you know is out there.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 11:52 am
Anyone who thinks any action short of abandoning the ACA by the President or Democratic members of congress would have prevented a shut down are delusional. Review the campaigns of several sitting congressmen from 2010. They campaigned on shutting down the government. There is an anarchist philosophy infecting the modern Republican party. And, it pleases many of their constituents. It satisfies their fantasies. Ignorance of consequences fuels a fool’s mission. It will be resolved. And consequences shall be felt.

Comment by nothin's easy Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:01 pm
- finding insurance that would cover if my wife got pregnant -

That’s amusing, John. Until the ACA, there were a whole bunch of conditions insurers could deny coverage for, regardless of willingness to pay.

But I guess as long as you’re happy with the system it should never change, right?

Comment by Small Town Liberal Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:03 pm
nothin’s easy-

Which candidates? Link those videos.

STL-

I didn’t say the system shouldn’t change, I’ve done enough speeches saying otherwise. But that doesn’t mean ACA hasn’t made lots of things worse. Change can be better, change can be worse. But our health care system has progressively gotten worse with each federal intervention starting with the HMO Act in 1970.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:09 pm
John, To put it another way, the chief and pre-eminent political problem we face is the kneejerk and ingrained tendency to [employ false equivalency].

There. Fixed it for you.

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:15 pm
==Less caricatures and more reasoned discussion, k thx ok bye.==

By all means, let’s conduct a discussion without caricatures like “At what point did it become acceptable for the President to dictate the terms of the budget process with absolute power?”

Comment by TooManyJens Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:27 pm
If someone in politics is going to say s/he’s opposed to Obamacare, s/he should be expected to explain what health policy s/he prefers and what the trade-offs of this policy alternative would be.

Progressives prefer single-payer. This will improve access to health care. It will control costs. It will cause many people in the business of medicine to lose their jobs. And for some conditions it will cause longer waits. Oh, one more thing, it will cause corporations invested in the business of medicine to lose market share.

Repealing Obamacare will return to the days when health care costs were consistently increasing faster than the rate of inflation. And the number of people not covered increased from year to year, causing more people to rely on charity care and gov’t programs. But it did result in high profit margins for insurers.

Does Rodney Davis have an alternative to Obamacare? Or is he just an empty suit regurgitating GOP talking points?

Comment by Carl Nyberg Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:29 pm
Hold on folks. 80% of the government is still functioning. Not much of shutdown. The EPA has deemed less than 7% of its employees, as essential. That should be an eye opener for the public. The average American, who is paying attention, a small number, is going to yawn. The others who aren’t are focused on baseball playoffs, except for Chicago, and football.

Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:32 pm
@JohnBambenek -
Here’s a collection of videos of Tea Party GOP House candidates in 2010 saying they wanted to shut down govt. Featured speakers are Lynn Westmoreland of Georgia, our own Joe Walsh of Illinois, Ron Paul of Texas and others. You’ll probably dismiss it because these clips are taken from a segment from Rachel Maddow’s show (though I cued it up so it starts right with GOP Congressional candidates talking).
http://youtu.be/QKZeXouaJpQ?t=2m18s

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:35 pm
@Downstater -

So because the bulk of the EPA employees getting the equivalent of a weekend off has not resulted in our rivers immediately catching fire and toxic smog filling the air that means the EPA workers aren’t really necessary after all? Do you really think that? Do you think our water, air and land would remain just as pollution free as it is right now if the EPA permanently shut down?

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:40 pm
This shutdown will contribute to an anti-incumbent sentiment among voters in general.

Those who closely track and follow politics may make a logical case for one party or another being to blame, but all most people see and care about is the fact that Washington is very closed right now and very dysfunctional.

That hurts incumbents of both parties, not strictly one the other.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:50 pm
“This will improve access to health care.” Or waiting lines.

“It will cause many people in the business of medicine to lose their jobs.” Unless they’re connected and/or able to function within bureaucracies.

“And for some conditions it will cause longer waits.” Drag.

“It will control costs.” Probably not effectively as allowing patients to purchase health insurance across state lines.

“Does Rodney Davis have an alternative to Obamacare?”

http://www.electrodney.com/index.php/rodney-davis-announces-plan-for-health-care/

If you’re not being charitable I suppose you can take him to task for regurgitating talking points. However, it’s hard to call his stated positions anything other than an “alternative” to Obamacare.

Comment by Geneva Guy Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:53 pm
Of those three you mention (and I didn’t recognize the others but they were responding to questions that weren’t on the air), only one is actually in Congress now. So now, I don’t reject it because it’s on Maddow.

But I would rather see source video instead of edited.

Comment by John Bambenek Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 12:54 pm
In terms of the impact on a republican form of government (small “r”) the parallels between the actions taken by the US House and Pat Quinn’s line item veto of legislative salaries are striking.

Both are very wrong, in my opinion.

In the letter (linked below) Harry Re3id spells out how the tactics used by the US House could be used by the “other side” just as Bruce Rauner and Kirk Dillard are telling us how Quinn’s tactics could be used by the “other side”

Here is Harry Reid’s letter to Speaker Boehner:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVlg5TaCIAAS0W5.png:large

Comment by Bill White Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 1:09 pm
–In terms of the impact on a republican form of government (small “r”) the parallels between the actions taken by the US House and Pat Quinn’s line item veto of legislative salaries are striking.–

That’s absolutely correct.

In addition, hasn’t Rauner been making noises about shutting down Illinois government if he doesn’t get his way with “the union bosses?”

If he adopts Quinn’s salary tactic and the House GOPs shutdown tactic, does that make Rauner some kind of bipartisan candidate, lol.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 1:17 pm
@John:

I said no such thing but if you want to put words into my mouth so be it. I suppose I would agree with your assessment of my comment in one respect - I think the Republicans are hell bent on destruction in this particular instance. If you are too dense to see that the constant bickering over the ACA is fruitless then I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not happy about any of it. But I do think the Republicans are being ridiculous beating this drum over and over. As I said, the ACA isn’t going anywhere.

They need to find something else to fight about and move on. I know there’s about a million other things the political parties can fight about. They are NOT going to win this argument right now. And I’m not ok with all this time being wasted on this topic.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 2:23 pm
Excuse me, but it is hard to hold Dem’s responsible when all the Speaker has to do is call the clean CR for a vote in the House and it will pass. He refuses to call it for a vote because the teabag lemmings are holding him hostage under the old “Hastert Rule” that won’t allow him to put anything on the floor w/o a majority of his caucus. That’s not the way Tip and the Gipper did it. Tip would call it even if he didn’t have a majority of his Dems and get Reagan to put enough Reps on it to pass. So this truly is a Republican/TeaBag political blockage. Indeed, Boehner allowed prior votes when he didn’t have the Hastert majority on Sandy and prior tax votes. Why not now?

Comment by D P Gumby Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 2:38 pm
JB - “Which candidates? Link those videos.”

I cannot link videos currently but best bet is Lynn Westmoreland of GA, search rachel maddow videos or google it.

Comment by nothin's easy Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 2:43 pm
Rodney Davis’ offices continue to refuse to tell you if he voted with the Republicans to shut down the gov’t. They continue to read his press release to make you believe he is on your side and opposes the Government shut-down. In terms of his “concern” about health care, he publicly plays up his wife’s cancer and his mother or mother in-law’s cancer. We all can relate to this and hope for the best and understand the pain and agony that a family goes thourgh, and cynically he knows it. We all know of loved one, friend or neighbor who has had cancer. Luckily for Congressman Davis he had taxpayer funded health insurance when he a congressional staff and was able to access the best treatment and medical help because of his taxpayer funded health care. While, at least he had financial security and peace of mind that his loved ones would be getting access to life-saving treatments, he is denying that same treatment to millions of other women who have cancer and are uninsured — by his continued opposition to Obamacare. Hypocrite at the highest level.

Comment by Health Care Justice Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 3:43 pm
Let’s be honest, Congress was going crazy when they realized their staffers might be under ObamaCare. They know that the subsidies soon ended for many of their employees who made too much to qualify for them.

In effect, the staffers would pay tremendous amounts in premium costs. So the administration started talking about special subsidies for them to solve this issue.

It is fair to point this out!

What happens is that so many political commercials are so overblown and nasty that they do not address the real issue in an intelligent manner If it is not a ’sound bite’ it does not get aired. And the commercial against Enyart sounds like this (although I have not heard it to know for certain).

Nothing new. Remember the LBJ commercials of a nuclear bomb exploding the world with the implication that if you elect Goldwater that is what will happen.

Many politicians think the public is too stupid to have a reasoned argument- and they may well be correct.

Comment by Federalist Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 4:04 pm
The Tea Party is subverting the will of the people. People overwhelmingly oppose shutting down the government to derail Obamacare. How many times have legislators stopped ACA repeal attempts? Republicans are beginning to pay for this now in the media, like in today’s Chicago Sun Times editorial. People are blaming Republicans for the shutdown. Will it matter, though, in gerrymandered and safe districts?

The Tea Party is very unpopular and not very large, and its views part ways with other Republicans in some issues, like raising the minimum wage. The Tea Party is like a small dog that snarls and yaps at a larger dog, except the dog has an excuse for not knowing it’s small.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 4:14 pm
From HuffPo:

Rep. Rodney Davis (R-Ill.): A Davis constituent tells The Huffington Post that a Davis aide told him Wednesday, “Congressman Davis is prepared to vote ‘yes’ on a clean CR.” Asked for comment, Davis spokesman Andrew Flach told HuffPost that Davis isn’t “going to speculate” on what bills may come up in the House and “will continue to vote for proposals brought to the floor that will fund the federal government.” [10/2/2013]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/house-republicans-clean-cr_n_4024755.html

Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:15 pm
Word, let’s take that notion of yours re: Rauner’s “bipartisanship”, throw it in a PowerPoint, and have Willy drop it off at his campaign office. That should be worth at least $50-75k in fees to AWillyWord Con$ulting. I’ll get cracking on the invoice.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Oct 2, 13 @ 10:22 pm