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* AP…
Republican Sen. Mark Kirk says he won’t endorse any candidate in Illinois’ GOP gubernatorial primary.
However, Kirk gave some advice. He contends the only way Republicans will take control of the governor’s mansion is to be moderate on social issues.
Kirk said that includes accepting same-sex marriage is legal in Illinois.
One of Sen. Kirk’s top campaign advisers is now working for Bruce Rauner. Kirk didn’t officially bless that move off his payroll and onto Rauner’s, but he didn’t try to stop it, either.
Beyond that, though, this is a clear warning to all four candidates that they need to reject any suggestions to repeal the soon-to-be gay marriage law.
The bill isn’t a law yet and Rauner has spread around a whole lot of money, so the hard right hasn’t yet made this demand of the candidates.
*** UPDATE *** I missed this quote from Treasurer Dan Rutherford…
And, asked about same-sex marriage, which he opposes, Rutherford says if elected, he would uphold the law rather than try to repeal it.
* Related…
* In first speech since stroke, Sen. Mark Kirk advocates for LGBT anti-bias bill
* Catholics urge Cardinal George to excommunicate Illinois Governor
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:39 am
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Don’t see any ‘win’ in him endorsing, if he runs for a second term regardless what he does in the gov race he is going to have a primary from the right anyway…
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:44 am
As usual, the Illinois Review overstates their case. It’s one letter from one crank. And that crank is perfectly willing to ignore the Catholic clergy when it suits his political purposes.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:48 am
unnecessary move that will only add further fire to a challenge from the right in 2016.
Comment by shore Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:48 am
“One of Sen. Kirk’s top campaign advisers is now working for Bruce Rauner. Kirk didn’t officially bless that move off his payroll and onto Rauner’s, but he didn’t try to stop it, either.”
If I had “ran a successful campaign for an Illinois Republican in a statewide election” on my resume, I’d ask Rauner for a position on his campaign. It probably pays really well.
Comment by Timmeh Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:50 am
Shore, I think Kirk would welcome a right-wing primary challenge.
Illinois ain’t Kentucky or Texas. There’s no better way to earn your bona fides with suburban swing voters than pounding a hopeless right-wing primary challenger. Ask Jim Edgar.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:54 am
The conservative litmus-tester wing of the party will not allow this issue to simply be swept under the rug. They would rather shoot themselves in the foot and be “right” and lose.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:58 am
Word,
Democrats would probably fund a right wing challenger to Kirk.
The only way they take that seat is if Kirk loses in a primary.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 10:59 am
Good to see CommandoMakeItUp back in the saddle and trying to reign in the whack job/wing nuts from spewing their hate through the 2014 campaign.
Guessing the Commando will be ignored, GOPies will lose and the volume will be turned up and up and up. Does the Commando’s former aide have a name?
Fire, Aim, Ready!
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:05 am
1. he has health issues
2. 2016 is a presidential election year. The last time an Illinois republican won a us senate election in a presidential election year was 1972.
3. I expect the right to do extremely well in 2014 which will only embolden RINO hunting in 2016 and he’ll be at the top of their list
4. Hillary 2016 in Illinois is a little bit of a tougher hill to climb than quinn 2010 on the ticket.
5. What has Rauner done for him that merits this sort of backing?
Comment by shore Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:06 am
Shore, why do you believe the right will do extremely well in 2014? When has the right ever done extremely well in Illinois?
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:12 am
Agreed Kirk has smartly worked to position himself to be as in good shape as any Repub in a “blue” state can be in the 2016 year. But he’ll never be truly safe. We have to hold off over speculation though because it all comes down to who the Dems run against him.
Comment by ZC Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:14 am
If Kirk couldn’t get the party to listen to him on Pat Brady why does he think they will on this?
Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:17 am
@Skeeter - Kirk will be a tier 1 target for the Dems in ‘16. Maybe hell get reelected but there’s no reason to think hell have an easy road at all. He barely beat a guy like Giannoulias in a banner GOP year and the national GOP brand has not gotten any better in the last 6 years in Illinois.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:21 am
Rauner doing lots of good things politically. He has a good chance of being the GOP nominee.
Comment by Downstater Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:24 am
Senator Kirk has yet to apply his social moderation to the full legalization of cannabis, or even its expanded medical use.
Kirk goes anecdotal: “…kids that in the ’70s we would call the ‘burnouts’ who were heavily smoking,” Kirk said. “Those kids, as they got to their 50s, were generally much lower performing in their careers and their lives. …”
A CDC report shows that teen use of cannabis went down in Colorado just under 3% while it went up just over 2% in the rest of the nation. If Sen. Kirk is concerned about teen use of cannabis, I’d like to see him support regulating cannabis like booze: take the market away from those who sell to teens and give it to those who fear a loss of livelihood and arrest when lawbreaking.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/marijuana-usage-down-in-t_n_1865095.html
Maybe Kirk thinks Bush, Obama, & Clinton would have been elected President had they had a cannabis arrest on their record.
By the way, Durbin is not significantly different from Kirk on cannabis legalization.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:31 am
Is it me, or is this a bit of an odd post…firing warning shots that candidates can or cannot do something? Pretty brazen, and seemingly manipulative–which is what his team seem to do best.
Shore’s right. Is he trying to start an internal war? He’s never been quite good a the whole unity thing though he does claim to be wrapped up in red, white, and blue and his solutions to wars used to be “hearts and minds.”
Pft.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:33 am
And, needless to say: Mr. Rauner needs more of this, too.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:38 am
I’m not sure who made Mark Kirk the arbiter all things GOP in IL. Who is he to be lecturing anyone? He won a very close race against a seriously flawed opponent in the biggest GOP year we’ve seen in a long time. While a win is a win, to his credit, I’m not sure he speaks for all GOP voters and probably shouldn’t be telling other candidates what to do or not do.
Comment by Whatever Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:39 am
@FakeBruceRauner - thanks “Downstater”, no one wins $15 Straw Polls like me. The best $3750 I spent to pretend I am really relevant. #HowMuchForParkPlaceAndBoardwalk #BuyingLakeCoGOPCheap
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:39 am
=He won a very close race against a seriously flawed opponent in the biggest GOP year we’ve seen in a long time.=
And in the process, by setting a whole new level of “dirty,” made many question how campaigns in Illinois allegedly need to be run in Illinois for Republicans to win thus promoting a total distate for politics that is thisclose to disenfranchising dedicated volunteers–except, of course, of the “paid” variety.
Not the type of strong Republican leadership many seem to admire or be willing (emphasis added on “willing”) to follow.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:47 am
Anyone know what the numbers were for the “Maverick” get together yesterday?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:52 am
Kirk is re-enforcing his own position on SSM, not much more than that. I read it more as advice than a threat. He didn’t win by enough to have his backing mean that much, especially in a primary. He’s got his own race to run over an extended time period given his physical limitations next time around. He would be smart not to overtly alienate anyone. He’s doing a smart thing by staying out of it. Nothing to be gained, but potentially something to lose. Fact: Dem swing voters are more loyal than GOP swing voters. Dems will admire him, but given a decent alternative, they’ll drop him in a NY minute.
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:53 am
Yes the GOP needs to moderate on silly social issues and hammer Quinn. Over and over on his financial mismanagement of the state and his constant lies. Perhaps bring up the cronyism of hiring unqualified workers be aide king Madigan told him to will start to resonate with the voters as more and more people learn just how shady Madigan is.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:55 am
Angel, what were the numbers?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 11:55 am
- Fed up -,
I have some “Fire Madigan” stuff for ya!
Yeah, I see Chairman Dorgan ignoring the “Fire Madugan” Dopiness - just like the voters did, and do…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:01 pm
Catholic elected officials should be dealt with via the sacrament of penance — which is in the confessional. Not on the pulpit. Not via public decree.
Comment by Catholic Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:01 pm
===Dems will admire him, but given a decent alternative, they’ll drop him in a NY minute. ===
I don’t disagree, but Dem and GOP voters combined are about 70 percent of the voting universe. That other 30 is where the real action is.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:06 pm
=I read it more as advice than a threat.=
Republicans, often accused of being warmongers, do not see “warning shots” and advice to keep their mouths zipped as “friendly advice.” Them–once verified, are fighting words.
And Kirk should know that.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:09 pm
Rich, I was referring to the universe of Dem and GOP swingers, of which Dem swingers are always more loyal to a decent partisan choice. I think of them as being in that 30%.
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:11 pm
=== * Catholics urge Cardinal George to excommunicate Illinois Governor ===
That is the christian thing to do, I cant tell you how many times jesus told us that if you sin you need to be cast out of the church, we need to toss rocks at glass houses and we should never forgive…
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:12 pm
Oswego
Fire Madigan isn’t going to work but pointing out Quinn gives jobs to Madigan political operatives is just a small part of the educating voters on the failed experiment of pat Quinn the accidental governor. More so pound away on the financial mismanagement and the lies. Lie after lie from Quinn. Additionally as pointed out here on Cap Fax more and more Madigan and his actions are being brought to light and his popularity is taking a hit. When you bring the great and powerful Oz out from behind the curtain sometimes people realize he ain’t so great.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:14 pm
He may have won a close race against a flawed opponent, but HE WON. In a blue state. He was also a flawed candidate. But he won. He won because he is a moderate. All of you RINO hunters out there take note, he won, you lost. Your purity tests may work in South Carolina, but not in Illinois. Just ask Governor Brady, wait he lost didn’t he. Against a flawed, really really flawed, candidate.
“He won a very close race against a seriously flawed opponent in the biggest GOP year we’ve seen in a long time”
Comment by AFSCME Steward Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:18 pm
- Fed up -,
Your “not ‘Fire Madigan’…”, sounds a whole like …
“Fire Madigan”
You keep trying to drag the Wizard out, the rest of us are going to try and win, thanks.
The “Windmills” are that way, - Fed up -. You’re welcome.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:20 pm
My guess is that there are establishment Republicans who relish the idea of either having Sen. Mark Kirk beat an ideological clown or having the ideological clown get drubbed in the general election.
It would be a powerful example to use against the Tea Party/Right Wing portion of the GOP.
I am surprised Kirk is showing as much courage as he is. It seems odd for a guy whose political history can be put in either the box labeled “liar” or the one labeled “weasel”.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:21 pm
Yes, and you can win a battle, but lose the war if you demoralize the troops–and continue to do so especially after your “win.”
Another thing with which Mr. Kirk should be familiar.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:23 pm
=And, asked about same-sex marriage, which he opposes, Rutherford says if elected, he would uphold the law rather than try to repeal it.=
Now that’s an interesting development.
Enjoy, Mr. Rauner.
Have a nice day, everyone.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:34 pm
*Additionally as pointed out here on Cap Fax more and more Madigan and his actions are being brought to light and his popularity is taking a hit. When you bring the great and powerful Oz out from behind the curtain sometimes people realize he ain’t so great.*
This is true, but electing or not electing Quinn doesn’t affect Madigan’s position. Madigan is still the powerful “Oz” with a republican governor.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:37 pm
Wow, let’s take a look at the Republicans who actually have gotten elected statewide in the past twenty years, and see if we can discern a pattern.
What could it be? (Yes, Peter Fitz. was an exception, but he ran against CM-B, self-funded, and hid from the Chicago media downstate in an RV.)
What audacity this Kirk guy has offering up advice!
Comment by LincolnLounger Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:38 pm
Oswego.
Not sure what you don’t understand about leading with Quinn lies and financial mismanagement but I understand you think Madigan is untouchable because of a flawed campaign two years ago. Two things to remember about that flawed campaign it was a bad idea and thanks to gerrymandered districts nothing would of worked.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:42 pm
by the “right” I meant right nationally. They seem this morning to have pushed Thad Cochran a stalwart conservative mississippi us senator out the door.
This wasn’t one he needed to make.
Comment by shore Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:42 pm
Rutherford is the GOP’s best shot at beating Quinn.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:44 pm
We’re all entitled to our opinions, Anonymous 12:44. Except, of course, those who see “warning shots” as kind words of advice.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:46 pm
Whatever, I think being nominated and elected to the House five times and nominated and elected to the United States Senate gives Kirk a pretty decent claim to leadership in the Illinois GOP.
The fact that social conservative GOP candidates have failed miserably in statewide elections for the past generation kind of indicates Kirk might just be on to something.
Right wingers just can’t find enough enemies that must be destroyed.
Comment by Adam Smith Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:52 pm
@FakeRuthrfordDan - thanks “Anonymous”, but be careful - Anonymous - might take issue with your handle first, your politics second #EnoughAboutMeNotHavingANickname
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 12:53 pm
Well - Fed up -, I am excited you brought up “the map”.
It is never as Dopey unless you tie the “map” and “Fire Madigan” to take away all your credibility at looking at things logically.
The “map” is so fun, MJM beat a GOP nap 4 out of 5 times…
Yikes, but I got a good laugh…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:00 pm
@Oswego Willy again with the negatives. Nothing positive to say. Dope!
Comment by Downstater Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:18 pm
OW we have wind turbines now, not mills… and they all look like dragons to me, I shall save the fair lady….
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:21 pm
-Downstater -,
So, that post…how are you adding to the discussion?
Make your case, unless you can’t logically.
“Fire Madigan” and the “Map” are excuses, not reasons. This blog has even addressed that.
It’s not? Then make your point…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:22 pm
- Ghost -,
Thanks for the knowledge!
After you save Dulcinea, don’t forget to wash up for dinner, and do your chores.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:25 pm
==Catholics urge Cardinal George to excommunicate Illinois Governor==
Good luck finding a church you agree with 100% of the time. If some in the Catholic Church want their to be a checklist for their followers to make sure everybody marks “yes” then they are going to find their churches pretty empty. I disagree with several things my church believes in but I don’t think they would throw me out because of it, although if they did I would say “good riddance” to them. I don’t believe in a “beliefs” police.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:39 pm
When running for Governor, don’t run against the Speaker of the House. Run for ideas. Rail against the Speaker of the House if it helps to get those ideas out or diminish the other opponent’s message.
Comment by Timmeh Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 1:48 pm
OW
Good point. Since the GOP once controlled state government, including “the map” & MJM was once minority leader, how did the Dems get control ? Surely the GOP stronghold on “the map” would have prevented the Dems from ever gaining power in Illinois.
You Tea Party Kool-aid drinkers need to stop making excuses & come to back to reality. The reason the Dems are in power is not because of the map. It is because you have driven a multitude of voters out of the GOP. Most Illinois residents are not hardline right wingers. What Kirk said was intelligent and the strategy for winning in 14. But, go ahead, nominate Obie. I’m sure he’ll win by a landslide, right ?
Comment by AFSCME Steward Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 2:26 pm
Carl you know from the drubbings Kirk used to deliver your pal Ellen, assistant, sorry assistant to the deputy state economic development director dan seals and the Hon. LBG in the 10th that he’s always had an independent streak. I have a problem with him embracing 5th floor pawn Brunce Rauner and poking a finger in the eye of social conservatives who swallowed and backed him in 2010 and could make life hell for him for 2016.
Comment by shore Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 2:34 pm
Ok just to get it straight. The GOP landslides to retake the congress was the result of gerrymandered maps in Texas, Ohio and other states but to say the dem map here helped Madigan in Illinos is just crazy talk. Interesting how nationally blaming the tramps is ok by the Dems but in Illinois the map had nothing to do with anything.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 2:48 pm
1) I am not a Dem.
2) Blaming a map, bd it by a Dem nationally, or a Republican here in Illinois is a crutch, used to try to explain away why they can’t do what MJM did 4 out if 5 times - beat the Map, lol.
3) Illinois is not Texas, Ohio, or any state. Comparing Illinois to any state is quite lazy. The fact that “national” consultants for both sides rarely understand the Illinois dynamic speaks more to Illinois’ uniqueness than I ever could. Illinois is unlike any state, for better … Or even worse sometimes.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 2:55 pm
Oswego Willy,
For a guy who claims not to be a Democrat, you sure do say a lot of nice things about them and a lot of bad things about Republicans.
If you are not a Democrat yet, you may want to consider switching your affiliation over to them.
You may be more at home on that side.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:11 pm
The idea that the views expressed by Sen. Kirk could be considered “socially moderate” just shows how far to the right the political spectrum in Illinois and the nation is skewed.
Comment by 2014: The New 1984 Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:13 pm
- Skeeter -
I appreciate the game if Politics, and I Post as such, be a move good or bad, right or wrong, smart or Dopey.
That us what I Post most of the time about. I try to help My Party, but all I can do us what I do.
I am a Republican, I know it, I live it, and I am not confused one bit.
I will work for My Party to remind them the ILGOP was once great, is great, and can be greater still. Working within a party is not a religion, not pure, not perfect, and is not specific to a “one ideal” to rally them all.
“True believers” are one group that needs purity.
I am not a “true believer” but Reagan Rule believer.
Finally, - Skeeter -, I thought you skipped over my Posts? Did we catch you reading what I Post again?
lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:25 pm
==If you are not a Democrat yet, you may want to consider switching your affiliation over to them.==
Brought to you by the litmus test wing of the Republican Party.
I don’t want to speak for OW but from the outside it seems to me OW’s constant mantra has been to try and slap “his” party on the side of the head because they act like idiots sometimes. Taking “his” party to task doesn’t equate to being a Democrat. At least you didn’t call him a RINO.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:26 pm
Your argument makes no sense. The map in Illinois was once drawn up by the GOP, gerrymandered the same as the Dems did. Yet the reason the GOP lost in Illinois is because of the map ? If the map is the absolute authority for winning elections in a state, the GOP would still be a majority in Illinois. The GOP is out of power because of bad candidates who are out of touch with the typical Illinois voter. The map doesn’t vote, only people do. Excuses are just that.
Fed up
“Ok just to get it straight. The GOP landslides to retake the congress was the result of gerrymandered maps in Texas, Ohio and other states but to say the dem map here helped Madigan in Illinos is just crazy talk. Interesting how nationally blaming the tramps is ok by the Dems but in Illinois the map had nothing to do with anything.”
Comment by AFSCME Steward Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:29 pm
“Finally, - Skeeter -, I thought you skipped over my Posts? Did we catch you reading what I Post again?”
When you post the same thing twenty times in a thread, I skip it. When you do it only three or four, I may read it.
Still trying to figure out why a guy who always praises Dems and always rips Republicans is a Republican though. Seems strange.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:39 pm
- Skeeter -,
Well then, my hope for you someday is to get beyond Sophomore year in your poltical thoughts.
Maybe I am like the Ole Daily Southtown tag line(?)
“Some people just don’t get it”…
You keep scratching your head.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:45 pm
Afscme,
Look at the maps congressional, state house, state senate they were drawn for one reason to put Dems in office it worked. To say that the GOP did it before and it didn’t work is true, but still doesn’t make it any less true about today’s map. Is it the only reason, no the GOP has done a terrible job of recruiting candidates and the overcrowded GOP primary for Gov left the party with a terrible candidate in 2010. One that just barely lost to Quinn. Kirk is right about moderating the party conservative social issues don’t fly in Illinois. Work on fiscal issue where the Dems are very vulnerable.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:47 pm
- Fed up -,
The difference is that MJM did indeed overcome the map at a 4-1 record against it.
It can be done. It has been done.
Everything else is just an excuse to not try to beat the map.
It is
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 3:52 pm
Oswego, in many districts in Illinois it can’t be done and that’s the key to the map. Eliminate or at least minimize the toss up districts. Yes the GOP can win statewide offices I they get good candidates and stay away from dumb issues but you can sit down look at the maps and determine a majority of districts are safe Dem now. You have divided dupage in such a way that Dems can win there. It is easy to say the map is an excuse but in many races the primary is the only race that matters. The GOP Gov primary in 2010 ruined the GOP chances in Illinois for at least until 2022/24. And for anyone to not realize that is crazy. State wide the GOP can compete if they moderate,in those local Ill house and senate races a majority of races are predetermined.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:08 pm
- Fed up -
The 1996 Election refutes all the Map stuff, and the 3 elections after, with MJM keeping the Gavel, just reinforces my point more.
To your Statewide ideas,
You and I are not too far off, but no GOTV or Field Operations make all we believe in concert or even disagree about all moot, because the bottom line is 1 more vote cast than the Dems and if My Party has no way to get voters to any polls anywhere in Illinois, then all the election would be is a going through the motions to defeat, moderate or conservative.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:16 pm
“It is easy to say the map is an excuse but in many races the primary is the only race that matters. The GOP Gov primary in 2010 ruined the GOP chances in Illinois for at least until 2022/24. And for anyone to not realize that is crazy.”
I’m crazy. And I don’t necessarily disagree with you that the Republicans don’t have good chances until they redraw the map. But the killer is that the demographics are against them. Young people are voting Democrat more and more. More Democrats are becoming of age, while older Republicans are dying. Even if the Republicans had the map, I’d take Madigan and that trend any day.
Comment by Timmeh Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:21 pm
“You keep scratching your head.”
I don’t know, but if it was me, and I liked stuff the other party did, and didn’t like stuff my party did, I would find a new party.
Seems like you enjoy banging your head against the wall, Oswego, and from the echo of some of your posts, you may well have done that a bit anyway.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:25 pm
===The 1996 Election refutes all the Map stuff, and the 3 elections after,===
Partially, not completely.
The problem was that the HGOPs in particular did not anticipate the very substantial African-American migration to the south suburbs.
There was more to it than that, however. MJM’s people were all over the place, handing out street fixes, making sure garbage was picked up, and essentially running city style campaigns in the south and southwestern burbs. It was a massive, two-year undertaking.
MJM had a million dollars left over from 1994. He thought he’d spent all he could. Big mistake. So he started spending money on postcard mailers right after the new GOP GA was sworn in. He dispatched troops everywhere. Studied down to the micro level where they could find votes. The HGOPs just couldn’t compete with that.
There’s lots more to it, though. Lots. Tom Cullen and Jerry Clarke should write a book about it.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:26 pm
===but if it was me, and I liked stuff the other party did, and didn’t like stuff my party did, I would find a new party===
That says more about you than you may know.
The other party is a success at doing things that my party hasn’t yet mastered, so I should go to the other party.
Wow.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:28 pm
Awesome, Rich, thanks for the knowledge.
To your Post, Rich,
That was where I was going. Cullen, and the resources, and the candidate recruitment, and the pulling out of the AA Community by a strong, unmatched GOTV, that was beyond well-funded, made the cake …bake.
Until the H&SGOP can at least start with the micromanaging of the blocks in Precincts to squeeze every possible GOP voter out and voted, and couple that step with all those above… until that happens and is fine by the Political Apparatuses of both Caucuses… the GA GOP will not succeed.
Thanks for Posting, Rich. Great insight.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:35 pm
Fed up
Why can’t it be done ? The GOP was once the majority in Illinois. It controlled the mapping process. It gerrymandered the districts to tilt the votes in the GOP’s favor. Yet the Dems won anyway & took over both houses with super majorities. How ? Is it really possible to tilt that many races to get super majorities ? Or is it that the GOP has become the party of no. It only complains, offers no alternative plans. It tunes out everybody who isn’t from the extreme right. The map isn’t the problem. Its the GOP leadership that offers no reason for people to support GOP candidates. Even Kirk, a moderate, has decided not to endorse anyone in the primary. Why ???? Is he afraid of backlash from righ-wing extremists ? A leader steps out. What he said was true about supporting moderates if the GOP wants to become relevant again. But it takes GOP leadership. Leaders that step up and openly support moderate candidates. Leaders that offer ideas, not just disention. Leaders that call out the extremists for what they are. The GOP is becoming narrower and narrower. If the GOP broadens its base and appeals to more voters the maps matters less & less. Tell candidates like Obie that he’s welcome to run, but he will be opposed by a moderate backed candidate. Beating the map is that simple, but from what I’ve seen the leadership necessary to do it isn’t there.
“Oswego, in many districts in Illinois it can’t be done and that’s the key to the map. Eliminate or at least minimize the toss up districts. Yes the GOP can win statewide offices I they get good candidates and stay away from dumb issues but you can sit down look at the maps and determine a majority of districts are safe Dem now. You have divided dupage in such a way that Dems can win there. It is easy to say the map is an excuse but in many races the primary is the only race that matters. The GOP Gov primary in 2010 ruined the GOP chances in Illinois for at least until 2022/24. And for anyone to not realize that is crazy. State wide the GOP can compete if they moderate,in those local Ill house and senate races a majority of races are predetermined.”
Comment by AFSCME Steward Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:37 pm
In other words, Skeeter, maybe instead of trying to constantly silence OW, you might start to listen. Or at least contribute to the conversation. Drive-by attacks only tend to confirm that you may be too insular, smug and hard-headed to participate here.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step. Attacking a guy who wants to improve his party’s chances at the ballot box is the opposite of taking that step.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:37 pm
- Skeeter -,
I think, no, I know, you are not the target audience for my Posts.
The fact you don’t understand, and after that Dopey Post you had, I feel relieved my message is skipping over those who don’t get “it” so My Party might gave a shot after all.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:39 pm
Rich, it is not about “doing things that may party hasn’t mastered.” It is about whether I agree with my party on anything at all.
I can’t recall a single instance when Oswego said anything good about the GOP. When people suggest that Democrats are doing things badly, he rushes to their defense. If he’s criticized Democrats on anything at all, I don’t recall the comment.
If I had nothing — zero, zip — good to say about my party (and assuming I had one) and nothing bad to say about the other, I would start to wonder.
Loyalty is good, but it has limits. Maybe Oswego Willy has reasons to stay in the GOP. But he posts here often, and he’s never posted anything at all (that I’ve read at least) to show why he stays in the GOP.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:39 pm
Also, Skeeter, if you were winning so many races that your party was bursting at the seams, then maybe trying to shout down a guy who was trying in good faith to increase your electoral chances might be OK. Not bright, but OK.
Instead, you reject out of hand that good faith advice, branding him a traitor for trying to emulate the winning traits that work in this state.
If you want a smaller party, then admit it. If you want to win, then shut up and listen and participate.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:42 pm
===and he’s never posted anything at all (that I’ve read at least) to show why he stays in the GOP.===
Then you’re blind. All I can say.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:45 pm
== When people suggest that Democrats are doing things badly, he rushes to their defense. ==
I don’t think he rushes to the defense of them doing things badly from a policy perspective. In my readings of what he has said he simply pushes back against those who offer that up as a path to victory without providing any workable electoral solution. People can say the Democrats are horrible all they want but if you can’t get yourself elected then it really doesn’t matter does it? He points out that the Democrats win and that the GOP can’t find a winning strategy.
He can slap me on the side of my head if he thinks I’ve misinterpreted what he generally says.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:46 pm
===I can’t recall a single instance when Oswego said anything good about the GOP===
Really? Not a single one?
https://capitolfax.com/2013/08/30/a-huge-win-amid-hopes-for-unity/
You are a Dope…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:46 pm
- Demoralized -,
You… are my Target Audience… That is a compliment.
Well said as well.
Sam/Frank
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:49 pm
Rich, you are looking at this as far more adversarial than I am.
I don’t have a party. I’m not rooting for one side.
I found the contrast in the comments and the party affiliation interesting, and admittedly, confusing. But that’s it. If Oswego wants to stay in the GOP, it is no skin off my nose. Be my guest. I’m just sort of curious as to why.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:51 pm
- Skeeter -
Read.
Also, by having “No” side speaks to why you can’t understand what I Post, or why I Post as I do.
Ya read that single “good” Post I had yet?
You are not my Target Audience … Your last few posts reinforce a lot more than that too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:56 pm
Oswego,
My comments seem to have made you angry.
That wasn’t my intent.
Have a good day.
Comment by Skeeter Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:58 pm
Skeeter: Someone once told me that the way to tell if I like something is if I complain about it. I won’t say much if something is just really bad as a whole. But if it’s something really good, then I want it to be better; the best it can be. It’s just the way some people are built.
Comment by Timmeh Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 4:59 pm
RICH
What do you think look at maps are their now a majority of safe districts or are their a majority toss up districts that either party has a realistic chance to win.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:03 pm
- Skeeter -,
You didn’t make me angry at all.
See, again, misreading what I Post.
“Always” “never” “only” “must”… They make me sad, not angry.
Have a good one, - Skeeter -
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:05 pm
For crying out loud, Willie is an old-school Yankee Republican.
Some of us, for the last 150 years or so, used to go for that sort of thing.
What passes for “Republican” in some circles now is the old Dixiecrats.
It’s been in all the papers.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:05 pm
Wordslinger,
Unfortunately you are mostly correct. Silly social issues are killing the GOP in Illinois. The whole litmus test BS chases away moderates and independents.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:15 pm
=== Silly social issues are killing the GOP in Illinois. ===
Also, an inability to do basic math.
How many Republicans are calling for a repeal of the income tax increase and are looking to pay for it by slashing unspecified “waste, fraud and abuse”
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:18 pm
Bill
No one is calling for a repeal of the income tax increase. I can see saying they won’t vote to extend it but, it expires unless their is a vote to extend it.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:30 pm
–No one is calling for a repeal of the income tax increase. I can see saying they won’t vote to extend it but, it expires unless their is a vote to extend it.–
Even by picking fly-stuff out of pepper standards … what’s the difference?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:35 pm
Well one you have to pass a bill to repeal the tax and have the Gov sign it. The other way you just don’t do anything.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 5:55 pm
Either way depends on magical thinking regarding math.
And Tom Cross wants to file a lawsuit that presumably will ask to shut down Illinois government because he believes the budget is not balanced.
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 6:02 pm
A lawsuit to shutdown govt is silly. Tell me Bill do you believe the budget is balanced.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 6:17 pm
I commend Oswego Willy for criticizing his own party. The GOP has some real problems with its approval rating these days, and there are forces at work that will further harm it, in my opinion, like the tea party and social conservatives. I saw a few polls in which most Republicans think the party is not conservative enough. Republicans like Willy are honest enough to see that purity tests and attacks from the right wing during primaries are detrimental to the GOP.
What good is it to lose elections but remain ideologically pure?
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 6:41 pm
With the SSM bill now passed and signed, just count how many GOP candidates follow Rutherford (oppose but will not repeal) looking to take the issue away from the Democrats next year. Move on to greener pastures, GOP. There are many.
Comment by Percival Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 7:34 pm
Q: Is the IL budget balanced?
A: First, define “balanced” Then, I defer to comments I believe Speaker Madigan said on video a few years back on how to think about whether a budget is “balanced”
Second, to complain that the budget isnt “balanced” without offering specific line items adjustments, while denouncing the income tax increase, or calling to “bulldoze Springfield” is mere hyperbole, or worse.
Plays well in a GOP primary but not otherwise.
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Nov 12, 13 @ 8:14 pm