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Endangered Goat?

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The Billy Goat Tavern has been a Chicago landmark for generations and a fixture underneath North Michigan Avenue for almost 50 years. And its owner wants to remain there, regardless of whatever redevelopment goes on above it.

Sam Sianis, who runs the tavern and is the nephew of the Billy Goat’s original owner, William Sianis, said Tuesday that he knew nothing of potential plans for a massive redevelopment disclosed Monday that would involve replacing the Realtor Building at 430 N. Michigan Ave. That project, on property located above the Goat, would at least temporarily displace the tavern from the subterranean location it has called home since 1964.

“I want to stay here,” Sianis said. “I’ve been here for almost 50 years. Like the Realtors, I’m part of Michigan Avenue.”

* Bouechieb is my favorite Chicago bartender…

Bouechieb Khribech has served up drinks for 24 years, and echoes the same sentiment.

“If we have to move and remodel, it’s not going to be the same,” Khribech said.

He’s right about that.

* Tribune editorial board…

Since 1964, the Billy Goat Tavern has been housed below Michigan Avenue, in a part of the Realtor Building not even visible from the sidewalk. It’s a watering “hole” in the truest sense and the very opposite of vanity height. It must be saved.

These days, we see a lot of “simulated authentic experiences.” There’s nothing “simulated” about the Goat. It’s authentic, which is one of the reasons why so many tourists are drawn to it.

* I took my dad to the Goat back in the days when I lived down the street. He’d seen the Saturday Night Live episodes, but still ordered fries. “No fries, cheeps,” I said as we stood at the grill. He chuckled, then out of habit ordered a Coke. “No Coke, Pepsi,” I sternly warned him [and, yes, some dyslexia apparently set in this morning and I appallingly reversed the line]. He didn’t realize the TV schtick was actually true, and was tickled to have the experience. He also loved the cheeseburger. I love them pickles.

Look, things change in business. There are bigger issues in the world. But if Mayor Emanuel allows the Goat to be moved or substantially altered, there’s gonna be heck to pay. Journalists and editors love that place. There’s just nothing else like it. He needs to stand up.

* On the bright side, I’ve tried over the years to come up with a Sun-Times column idea that would get me on Sam’s wall. I may now have one.

Hmm.

* Your recollections and thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:06 am

Comments

Endangered Goat….good one!

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:14 am
Love the Goat. But Sam would move the establishment to Winnetka if the incentive money was right.

Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:18 am
Kind of surprising that the realtors want to start of project like this. I know the economy is starting to get better but there is a whole lot of empty space out there. And I would think their revenues would be down considering who their members are. Hope it doesnt happen because it won’t be the same.

Comment by Been There Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:20 am
First, I like the Billy Goat, but I still resent the curse William Sianis put on the Cubs. So I’m biased.

In what universe does a minor, basement level tenant get to veto the development plans of the building owner? If the Realtors get the financing to do the plan they outlined yesterday, two whole blocks of the city will be demolished and rebuilt. You think the Billy Goat is going to block all of that?

John Kass and other media types will howl and write thousands of words in defense of the Sianis family, but it would be foolish to let that dive stand in the way of a major, multi-million dollar redevelopment of one of the most important and prominent blocks in the city of Chicago.

Unless Sam is ready to buy the property from the Realtors, he isn’t going to have much say in the matter.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:24 am
Fun place, but the Mayor has to ‘allow’…..? Really?

The pols should have no involvement in what is a landlord tenant issue. Progress and change are inevitable.

Let the journalists lobby their positions to the best of their ability and have the pols actually worry about the government living beyond it’s means.

Comment by plutocrat03 Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:27 am
I picked up on the “it’s going to be torn down” aspect of “displaced” yesterday. Unfortunately, clean, shiny, and new would be disastrous for their business model. On the bright side, maybe Royko will decide to haunt the new place for revenge - and to keep the tourists coming. Then again, with traditional newspapers dying, it might be sadly poetic for the Goat to go too. I might have to start a “Save America’s Dive Bars” community group though.

Comment by Jeeves the Cat Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:29 am
I had the great good
fortune to tape part of a documentary about the late Chicago newspaperwoman Virginia “The Duchess” Marmaduke at the Billy Goat back in ‘94. Duchess was one of the first female reporters to cover the crime beat for old Chicago Sun back in the 40s and was a regular at the original Billy Goat. She was good friends with Sam’s uncle Bill back in the day. There’s even a picture of her giving the goat a drink of beer as Bill looks on. It was a real treat to hear her crack wise about all the characters whose pictures line the walls of the Goat and to share in a real slice of Windy City history.

Comment by Jak Tichenor Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:36 am
As a person who has done some rehabbing of old buildings, etc, I can say that the whole tavern façade, inside and out, can be preserved and moved. Same greasy walls, slightly different address. One article I read indicated that the thing could move across the “street” to the Tribune building. Same cross street location.

So, cut the walls down, remove the ceiling and take up the floor. Locate it nearby. It’s just a technical issue. In 20 years, no one from out of town will even remember it was somewheres else. If Sianis don’t like that, he can lump it.

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:37 am
I wonder what other curses the Sianis family has up its collective sleeves?

Comment by Aldyth Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:38 am
==In what universe does a minor, basement level tenant get to veto the development plans of the building owner?==

In a “crunch the numbers” way, I get your point. Pure economics is on your side. But there are some things numbers can’t quantify. Where I disagree with you is in the characterization of The Billy Goat as a “minor” tenant. The place is famous around the world. If it’s destroyed, it can’t be recreated. It may cost more, but surely there is a way for the space above it to be rebuilt without closing it. Having enjoyed many a cheeseburger there, albeit usually with a beer instead of a Pepsi, I say it’s worthwhile to come up with a plan that preserves The Billy Goat. You just can’t replace something that is that authentic and unique to Chicago. There are layers and layers of Chicago history inside those walls.

Comment by OldSmoky2 Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:39 am
I love the goat. Stop there for lunch fairly often when I am in the city. Just can’t beat that atmosphere. My favorite thing is to take visitors from our area to visit. Nothing screams “Chicago” like the Billy Goat!

Comment by Stones Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:40 am
The burgers are not good. The “cheezborger” schtick is just schtick. If only good “dives” had an army of journalists to defend them.

Comment by Chi Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:41 am
===I still resent the curse William Sianis put on the Cubs===

Sigh.

Another excuse-making loser Cub fan heard from.

Just sayin…

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:42 am
Anything that keeps the cubs losing I’m all for it! Lol

Comment by foster brooks Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:42 am
Thanks Rich. Lol, I was just following your lead on full disclosure.

===I’ve tried over the years to come up with a Sun-Times column idea that would get me on Sam’s wall. I may now have one.===

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:47 am
I thought it was “No Coke, Pepsi?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH_b9XwloHE

Comment by Boone's is Back Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:48 am
++These days, we see a lot of “simulated authentic experiences.” There’s nothing “simulated” about the Goat. It’s authentic, which is one of the reasons why so many tourists are drawn to it.++
Billy Goat Tavern has 7 other locations, including Navy Pier, the burbs (Mt. Prospect) and Washington, DC. There’s your simulated experience.

This issue is similar to when the new Comiskey Park was under construction and Gov. Thompson ‘promised’ McCuddy’s (tavern across 35th St. would be relocated. Still waiting.

Comment by Darienite Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:54 am
They came for the pensions, and I said nothing as I didn’t have a state pension.

They came for the taxes, and I said nothing as I wasn’t in the top income bracket.

Then they came for the taverns, and suddenly I cared.

Comment by TJ Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:56 am
Also, as a Cubs fan, the “curse” they put on the team is about as meaningful on the Cubs as all the cracks in pavement I stepped on as a kid has on my mom’s longterm back health.

Comment by TJ Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 11:59 am
Now, if you were talking about moving Manny’s - thems fightin words!

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:01 pm
I have a friend who is of the impression the one out at Navy Pier is the superior location of this chain because it’s not underground and much cleaner than the one she’s heard of but has never visited.

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:03 pm
It’s one of the last great dives downtown, but excessive sentimentality is really not the Chicago business model.

If it were, the Sauganash Hotel would be landmarked out on Wolf Point instead of the Merchandise Mart.

Sam and Bill are very wily businessmen and political operators so they’ll come out alright no matter how it goes down, believe me.

You can always hit the Goat on Welles down from the Board of Trade. George gives the place atmosphere and they have fries.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:04 pm
I spent w-a-y too much time down there in the late 70s and early 80s when I was a poor young PJ flogging pics to the S-T and Trib. I haven’t been there in at least 20 years - it sounds like time to make what may be a last run.

Comment by Ken_in_Aurora Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:09 pm
The Goat went from “real Chicago” to “self-parody” when it opened a location on Navy Pier. It became schtick. I’d rather have a nice new building on Michigan Ave. As long as Boss Bar remains open, losing the Goat is no skin off my nose.

By the way, doesn’t “close the Goat” sound like something that Richard M. Daley would have done, about the time that he was planting flowers on Michigan Ave.? He sure did want things to look pretty and neat for the tourists.

One last note — the Goat on Van Buren at Wells actually has remarkably good fries.

Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:10 pm
=== As long as Boss Bar remains open===

Did it reopen? Heard there was a problem.

Also, I ain’t talking about the Goat out at the Pier. Never been. Never will go.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:11 pm
There’s precedent, of course, for a major move and comeback. The Goat underneath Michigan was a result of a move from West Madison Street.

Miller’s Pub got moved out of their original location in the 80s for a parking garage. They moved down Wabash and didn’t miss a beat, really.

The Goat’s clientele is definitely aging and more touristy. You don’t see the kids coming in for cheap dark drafts and cheeseburgers much.

From what I’ve seen, the hipsters, when they go slumming hit Rossi’s, which I find hilarious. Rossi’s was always the place you could count on to not be seen, because most people were scared to go inside, lol.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:30 pm
===Rossi’s was always the place you could count on to not be seen, because most people were scared to go inside===

I used to be a regular there. Pretty much stopped going when I ran into a Downstate legislator. Figured it was ruined.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:31 pm
Ronnie’s Steakhouse moved and survived. I know word might wonder why they exist at all…..

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:48 pm
–Ronnie’s Steakhouse moved and survived. I know word might wonder why they exist at all..–

To keep down the stray dog population.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:50 pm
I’m not sure how landmark status would effect the Goat’s barganing power but if any place is a Chicago landmark it’s the old goat.

Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 12:57 pm
These developers can ask the Billy Goat to move when they get their own skit on Saturday Night Live.

Until then, Sianis makes the rules around here.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:06 pm
Yeah, Boss re-opened. The closing came as a shock to absolutely nobody. Buy the ticket, take the ride. We always know what are are in for at that place.

On a related note, since Boss is about a block away from Maggianos, anybody interested in having a beer there after Rich’s annual lecture at the City Club in December?

Sounds like something should be planned.

Comment by Skeeter Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:08 pm
=== Kind of surprising that the realtors want to start of project like this. I know the economy is starting to get better but there is a whole lot of empty space out there. And I would think their revenues would be down considering who their members are ===

The realtors are the largest trade association in the U.S., so I think they are financially in good shape. Plus they are not intending to occupy the whole building just part of it, but will have an ownership stake in it… in other words they can make money off the upgrade. I think more than any other group, the realtors know what to do with their real estate.

Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:09 pm
Why all the hate, word? Did something bad happen at that restaurant? Did your girlfriend break up with you there? I see so many folks dine there and enjoy the simple food and the kind folks who work there - it is hard to imagine why you despise the place so much.

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:10 pm
===Sounds like something should be planned. ===

I’m supposed to do a radio show afterward, but a plan can still be made and I can join later. Good idea!

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:10 pm
It’s an affordable place to eat lunch on Michigan Avenue. There is only one stall for men and one for Women. Always a line during lunch.

I also ate at the Billy Goat in the Merchandise Mart, it is more expensive and does not taste the same. I think they even have fries at that one.
Never been to the one at the Pier, become the Pier is such a tourist destination that you can’t even move around in nice weather.

It is kind of neat knowing how many have passed through the original one, and how the decor has not changed over the years. You get the feeling that you are in a part of Newsroom history when you are there.

Comment by 3rd Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:17 pm
DD, you trolled for a response and I obliged. Your sadness and outrage is duly noted.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:18 pm
I used to live a couple of blocks from there and stopped in late at night. The cheeseburgers are thin and not really great. The place is worn and dirty. I went for the atmosphere. The pictures on the wall, the location under Michigan Avenue. The air of real journalists about to arrive or having just left. Move the bar and the regulars to another underground spot nearby and it would be just fine. In the meantime, let’s morn the slow death of two great newspapers upstairs on Michigan Avenue.

Comment by Publius Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:34 pm
Publius, since you lived in the neighborhood, when were there ever two newspapers on Michigan Avenue?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:38 pm
You hacks can always get sluiced at the Girl and the Goat…

Comment by Jimmy Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:47 pm
Wordslinger, my mistake. In those days the Sun Times was along the river in its own building..

Comment by Publius Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 1:50 pm
There used to be two newspapers on Michigan. The Trib and the guy selling Streetwise.

Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 2:24 pm
I was at the Billy Goat in 1969. When I didn’t place my order quick enough, the counter man yelled out “next.” Not a friendly place.

Comment by Tom Joad Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 2:31 pm
yes, word, but your hate still lingers unexplained. Dog meat? Really? Who is the outraged one?

Signing off the subject.

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 2:56 pm
Just a warning: Chicago without its actual taverns and actual newspaper men and women would be on the slippery slope to becoming Cleveland. Or just a really big Gap. I’m not sure which. I just know it would be bad. Really bad.

Comment by Jeeves the Cat Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 4:05 pm
===I still resent the curse William Sianis put on the Cubs===

Imagine the curse on the entire city if this happens.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 5:40 pm
===I was at the Billy Goat in 1969. When I didn’t place my order quick enough, the counter man yelled out “next.” Not a friendly place.

Not his fault you are slow.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 5:40 pm
Chicago hasn’t been the same since…

There’s probably a hundred ways to complete that sentence in just the past 20 years.

But the Billy Goat?

It may yet be saved by a handful of nostalgic souls. In forty years, Hooters will achieve the same “historic” status.

In Alexandria, VA, you can enjoy a pint in the same pub once frequented by George Washington. Europe is strewn with homes that predate the Declaration of Independence.

How can we compete? We can’t.

And yet The Goat may yet be saved, Not on pure merit, but thanks to its political clout.

What a fitting Landmark for Chicago.

Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Nov 13, 13 @ 9:34 pm