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Gay marriage roundup

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* Gov. Pat Quinn plans to sign the gay marriage bill into law this afternoon at 3:30. Thousands are expected to attend. You can click here to watch a live video stream.

* Let’s start our morning coverage with a column by Jonathan Rauch at Time.com, which looks at the “end of gay victimhood”…

In the 1990s, a younger generation brought forward a different agenda, one that focused on the two most egregious forms of governmental discrimination: the bans on gay marriage and military service. Around the same time, the “gayby boom” took off, as openly gay couples became parents. Marriage, military service and child rearing: these were not extensions of the 1970s gay-rights agenda but departures from it. Taken together, they constituted a gay-responsibility agenda. We were seeking the burdens of adulthood instead of running to Mommy; asking to serve our communities and country instead of demanding that they serve us; declaring our strength instead of our perennial weakness.

The responsibility agenda has been a hard slog — harder, ironically, than the rights agenda. The anti-gay lobby was more alarmed by strong, independent homosexuals than with weak, victimized ones. Over time, though, the responsibility agenda has done for gays what Israel has done for Jews. It has retired the stereotype of weakness. The country has responded by seeing us in a new and more positive light: one in which oppressed-minority status makes less sense by the day.

* On the other hand, Robert Ritchie, the executive director of America Needs Fatima, isn’t quite saying, but he is asking whether his readers believe that the “massive Illinois tornadoes are linked to the passing of the same sex ‘marriage’ bill” …

The massive tornadoes that hit Illinois after the passing of the same sex “marriage” bill, has stimulated many people to reflection.

In it, some see God’s chastisement; others see it as yet one more merciful warning from Providence; others yet deny both options and give various reasons.

What do you think?

Considering that the tornadoes ripped through towns represented in the General Assembly by “No” votes on gay marriage (except for one), I wouldn’t press that question too far if I were Ritchie.

Just sayin…

* Meanwhile, Springfield Bishop Thomas Paprocki’s plans for an exorcism today are explained by an expert…

“Some Catholics would believe that God is being invoked to dispel evil, the condition of evil in this case,” said the Rev. Gary Thomas, a California priest whose training as an exorcist was featured in the 2011 film “The Rite.” “It would be a rare Catholic to expect something dramatic to happen at the moment.” […]

Though it’s unclear if Paprocki is exorcising the law, the state, the diocese or the legislature, it’s safe to say he’s not exorcising individual politicians, said Thomas, who has no firsthand knowledge of Paprocki’s plans.

“God doesn’t interfere with free will,” Thomas said. “The person has to cooperate with the exorcism. I can’t imagine Bishop Paprocki doing something like that. They have to want to cooperate with that.”

The purpose of exorcism, rather, is to point out the reality and presence of God, he said.

* About 30 percent of Illinoisans identify themselves as Catholics, so coverage of the intersection of faith and politics tends to focus on cardinals, bishops and priests. Not every theologian is on board…

Meanwhile, also at 3:30 p.m. on Nov. 20 in Springfield, the Rev. Martin Woulfe of Abraham Lincoln Unitarian Universalist Congregation will be offering a public prayer of thanksgiving on behalf of lesbian and gay couples that will soon be able to marry.

Woulfe said that before the prayers, the church will hold a screening of the signing ceremony, which is being streamed live. The event is intended as thanks to the activists and legislators who made the successful SB10 vote possible.

The remarks from Poprocki have been consistent with the bishop’s theology in recent years, Woulfe added. So he takes consolation in his own church having an opportunity to show a commitment to fairness and social justice.

“No one church has a monopoly on truth, nor a monopoly on ethics or morals,” Woulfe said.

* And Lynn Bohlmann, pastor of Congregational United Church of Christ in Jacksonville, offers up these insights…

Our United Church of Christ congregation, as well as other UCC, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal and Unitarian congregations, were present at the recent March on Springfield. I was thanked by some in the crowd who were encouraged and surprised by visible support from the Christian churches.

One asked whether we would perform same-sex marriages or whether we were just out for show. A reasonable question, given both a well-deserved cynicism toward the Christian church and the bill’s explicit grant to faith communities the right to marry, or not marry, people in same-sex relationships. I told her that we have performed Holy Unions at Congregational United Church of Christ and will be glad to perform marriage for couples who love one another and seek to commit to one another.

We want people to be able to bring their whole selves to God and know that they are loved. We want people to be able to be part of a faith community that affirms them and facilitates all of our abilities to live justly and wholly.

But our groups from various churches weren’t the only ones who assembled in support of marriage equality. There were at least two banners professing both their Catholic faith and their support. One organization was Catholics for Marriage Equality. The other, a loose collection of mothers and fathers, under a large handmade sign saying Catholic moms and dads supporting their gay and lesbian children.

Isn’t that love of God and love of family what it’s all about?

* Zorn looks at the impact of the Massachusetts gay marriage law…

“The first negative impact was to our children, and the sexual standards they are being taught in our public schools,” said Massachusetts Family Institute President Kris Mineau. The idea that gay marriage is acceptable “is shocking, particularly to kindergartners, and causing a lot of confusion in our families.”

Mineau said people have become “afraid to speak out against same-sex marriage for fear of being marginalized, ridiculed and harassed in the public square” and that this has led to “an erosion of our values.”

Mineau said he’s unaware of any discrimination suits in Massachusetts against wedding photographers, florists and other service providers who refuse to cater to gay weddings, and that he can point to no social science that links gay marriage to the decay of the traditional family, though he does point out that the claims made by proponents that gay marriage will strengthen the overall institution of marriage haven’t come true either.

But…

The Thomas More Society believes the [Illinois gay marriage law] will result in hundreds, or even thousands, of lawsuits.

“Thousands” of lawsuits? It hasn’t happened anywhere else. A few have been filed, yes, but thousands? Nope.

* The possible economic impact is smallish, but still significant…

According to Smith, researchers at the UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute, a national think tank on sexual orientation and gender identity law and public policy, predict that same-sex weddings could bring close to $103 million to the state over the next three years.

* More numbers…

When Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn signs gay marriage into law, 38 percent of the nation’s population will live in states where same-sex marriage is legal, according to Freedom to Marry.

* Next door in Indiana, however, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is moving through that state’s general assembly…

Despite Illinois’ approval of gay marriage, Indiana has a conservative political culture and “we haven’t followed Illinois’ cues since the Civil War,” Curt Smith, president of the Indiana Family Institute, said Tuesday.

The Republican leaders of both chambers of the General Assembly have committed to hearing the marriage amendment, and “we think strong majorities will again decide that the people should decide,” Mr. Smith said.

He noted that Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, a Republican, has been clear in his support for traditional man-woman marriage and for a popular referendum on an amendment.

On Tuesday, Indiana House Speaker Brian C. Bosma rejected a request to kill the proposed marriage amendment, saying it will be assigned to committee and will be dealt with like any other bill.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:08 am

Comments

” “we haven’t followed Illinois’ cues since the Civil War,” Curt Smith, president of the Indiana Family Institute, said Tuesday.”

What cue did Indiana take from Illinois at the time of the Civil War? Not seceding? Not endorsing slavery?

That comment just speaks volumes.

Comment by jerry 101 Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:19 am
Mr. Ritchie, you ask: What do I think? I think that if it wasn’t marriage equality (that caused the tornadoes), it would have been some other social issue that you take exception, like say, abortion.

Why does God only smite issue YOU disagree with? Maybe the tornadoes are a sign from God that he dislikes intolerance?

Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:19 am
Mr. Smith, I’m sorry to burst your bubble.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/in.htm

Comment by Soccermom Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:24 am
I don’t know what kind of God some people believe in but if God punishes us with tornados I think I’ll pass on believing in him. God doesn’t punish people for Pete’s sake. How anyone can believe that and still believe in God is beyond me.

Also, I wish somebody would call out these “Family” Institute guys. They are anything but “family” friendly. They should call themselves the “Certain Family Institute” since it’s clear they have a bias towards certain types of families.

And what sexual standards are being taught in our schools? That there are different kinds of families? Heaven forbid we should teach our kids that different types of families are wrong.

I don’t fear gay marriage. I fear the attitudes of some that are against gay marriage. The world has not come to an end in states with gay marriage and it isn’t going to come to an end here. I, for one, think we should be celebrating the fact that two people that love each other can now formalize their relationship the way that straight couples can - with marriage.

Gay marriage is here to stay and it is coming nationwide in my opinion. People need to get over it and worry about their own lives. I’ve yet to hear any argument as to how gay marriage affects somebody else’s marriage or how gay marriage affects somebody else’s life in general. People need to live their own lives and let others live theirs.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:27 am
==Heaven forbid we should teach our kids that different types of families are wrong. ==

That should say “that different types of families are OK”

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:28 am
Read Romans chapter 1, written by Christ’s hand-picked messenger, to get a feel for how God feels about homosexuality. God doesn’t hate the sinner, He hates the sin. Also, regarding the recent tornadoes and any other disaster, we live in a sinful world and bad things happen. To blame the tornadoes on one sin or another is pointless. Since all sins are equal in the eyes of God, there are plenty of them that we could be punished for.

Comment by the unknown poster Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:33 am
“What do you think?”

I think attributing natural disasters to God’s wrath at homosexual marriage is a cruel and despicable attempt to exploit people’s tragedy. Plus, this view is dated. We’re moving forward into the 21st Century. People evolve all the time, and I want to be at the forefront of positive evolution.

I have my admission ticket and will be attending today’s bill-signing ceremony. I look forward to this afternoon.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:37 am
=regarding the recent tornadoes and any other disaster, we live in a sinful world and bad things happen=

Yes, like weather, earthquakes, floods, fires, etc. Or in other words, science.

Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:38 am
It’s terribly hard to lose a loved one at any time but for Rep Kelly Cassidy having to deal with the loss of her mother leading up to a day that she should be feeling great joy, today is so bittersweet. From her Facebook page:

===Today will truly be a day of extremes. While Kelley Quinn and the boys will be celebrating Gov. Quinn’s signing of the marriage equality bill in Chicago, my siblings and I will be holding my mom’s memorial service in Florida. Home tomorrow.===

Comment by Been There Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:45 am
Contributing the tornadoes to God’s punishment for a gay marriage bill is right up there with those nutballs from the Westboro church. Not as crazy but in the same league.

Comment by RonOglesby Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:45 am
Attributing … Damn auto correct.

Comment by RonOglesby Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:46 am
Today is a glorious day in the State of Illinois as we take another step toward equality and justice for her citizens.

Once again, kudos to the legislators who voted for marriage equality, and to Governor Quinn for signing the bill.

Comment by PolPal56 Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:51 am
=Yes, like weather, earthquakes, floods, fires, etc. Or in other words, science.=

Sooo….science is bad? Not sure I get the point. We live in a sinful world where bad things happen like tornadoes, murders, earthquakes and rapes. They are all disasters whether they are “acts of God” or acts of men.

Comment by the unknown poster Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:52 am
These people need a new God-story line. This old fearful one doesn’t work anymore.

Comment by Belle Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:57 am
I would strongly suggest that Mr. Ritchie re-read the biblical passages on the Tower of Siloam.

Sometimes, bad things happen to good people.

Comment by TJ Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 10:58 am
=== “God doesn’t interfere with free will,” Thomas said ===

In the OT, maybe. In the NT, agreed. God smiting is so OT.

I wonder if the “God is punishing Illinois with tornados” folks could grasp the concept that few people would want to believe in a God who punishes innocent folks alongside those who “deserve” to be punished. Some of those who lost their homes or worse - guaranteed they are God fearing, church going folks who are not happy with SSM. Not chastising them here, of course. Just pointing out that of all the thousands of folks whose lives have been devastated by this event, some of them are strict believers who are not in favor of SSM. Why were they punished?

If they knew how loopy they appear when they say that, would it bring them up short if they get the urge to spout off again?

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:00 am
@the unknown poster

My point is this, because we live in a “sinful world” that’s not why bad things happen, at least not the science stuff anyway.

Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:07 am
If your sky friend is angry about Illinois extending equal rights to all its residents, wouldn’t his aim have been better? Why downstate when he could have taken out Halsted Street?

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:21 am
@ Knome Sane

I respectfully disagree. If the Bible is to be used as a guide, prior to the Fall, man lived in a paradise where bad things didn’t happen. After the Fall everything changed and bad things happened.

Regarding gay marriage, I am not sure God would consider that a sin. However the consummation part is a different story.

Comment by the unknown poster Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:22 am
Another viewpoint:

From an article by Richard Rohr OFM, a Franciscan and director of the Center for Action and Contemplation, Albuquerque, in Sojourners, Dec. 2013, p. 18. He isn’t writing about gay marriage, and he doesn’t mention Bishop Paprocki, but he does talk about exorcism:

“… For us Catholics, and even more for Franciscans, Pope Francis is exemplifying the way to preach the gospel. It seems he heals and creates community wherever he goes, instead of parsing sentences and arguing about who needs exorcism and who doesn’t. He is telling us we all do, by standing first in line.”

Maybe Paprocki should pay less attention to the speck in his neighbor’s eye and give a little prayerful consideration to the log in his own eye.

Comment by olddog Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:25 am
Are tornadoes (or earthquakes or typhoons) a result of sin? If they aren’t caused by human related activity (and I’ve seen no evidence that our tornadoes were any other than a predictable response to specific weather patterns), then I don’t think they could said to be caused by sin. They are frequently referred to as “natural evils” due to the real pain and anguish they cause sufferers, not due to any evil inherent in them. After all, if a tornado rips through a forest preserve and causes no other damage, is it an awful thing (awe-inspiring perhaps, but awful)?

To invoke natural evils as the result of displeasing the gods is as old as religion, though. And most likely a good part of the reason we have religion to this day.

As for only sin causing bad things to happen and before being a paradise…Natural selection would argue against it.

Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:28 am
@the unknown poster

Unfortunately, and far too often, the Bible is NOT used as a guide, but as an anvil on which to beat the hammer of one’s prejudice or perspective. Not by you, mind you, but by zealots who want to hide behind the Bible to justify their actions and intolerances. The Bible says a lot of things, many of which are contradictory. But it also says love thy neighbor as thyself. Who cares what goes on behind closed doors? That’s what’s at issue here.

Comment by Knome Sane Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:34 am
The Book of Job has something to say about whirlwinds hitting the just and the unjust.

Comment by Soccermom Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:39 am
I’m happy for the folks who will benefit from this simple act of justice.

I’m quite confident my family and I will not be adversely effected at all.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:39 am
Remember that Golden Age — before same-sex marriage, abortion and heavy metal — when Illinois didn’t have bad weather?

That was fantastic.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:44 am
A Church leader like Bishop Paproki in good faith have a gathering in favor of what he and the church believes relative to SSM - a pro traditional marriage deal. When he tosses out the “Exorcism” scenario, he casts himself as Demon Slayer in Chief, or whatever. It’s beginning to be a Paprocki reality show in the making

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:51 am
“It’s beginning to be a Paprocki reality show in the making”

Perfect. Can we call it “Here Comes Bishop Boom Boom”?

Comment by ChicagoR Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 11:56 am
Soccormom - the book of Job is OT. Christians are supposed to focus on the New Testament as it relates to the forgiveness offered by Christ. That smiting type of activity is so yesterday - not really present in the NT. So yesterday, IOW.

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:23 pm
Will the lack of Same Sex Marriage hurt corporate recruiting for large businesses located in “Red” states? (Coke, WalMart, ExxonMobil, AT&T, American Airlines, Norfolk & Southern … )

Comment by Anyone Remember? Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:33 pm
Sheesh, it was so yesterday I said it twice. Gonna clean my glasses now.

Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:39 pm
This state is entering into unknown territory today. It remains to be seen whether this experiment in redefining family will prove beneficial for the commonwealth or not. It is only a matter of time before the question about what is the defining characteristic that separates marriage from other forms of human relationship will be addressed. Without an acceptable response to this question. Intellectual honesty requires one. If Marriage is merely a state generated construct that can easily be redefined constantly to allow numerous population presently not recognized as married to be able to argue on grounds of justice and equal protection that their civil rights are being hindered. I will be curious to know what intellectual line of reason proponents of today’s bill signing would offer to that, if in fact they see any reason to offer one.

Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:40 pm
~~Will the lack of Same Sex Marriage hurt corporate recruiting for large businesses located in “Red” states?~~

Eventually, yes.

~~This state is entering into unknown territory today.~~

Except in 14 other states and 16 or so countries that already have it.

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:43 pm
Downstater, you’re taking the long way around the barn. What’s your concern, exactly?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:50 pm
==This state is entering into unknown territory today.==

No it’s not. Other states have gay marriage and I think everything is going just fine.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:52 pm
“I will be curious to know what intellectual line of reason proponents of today’s bill signing would offer to that”

If you haven’t seen that by now, you haven’t been paying attention. It’s been offered as a response every time someone says “if we allow gays to marry, then we’ll have to allow children to marry dogs!”

Comment by ChicagoR Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 12:53 pm
===a state generated construct that can easily be redefined constantly===

First, if you think passing that bill was “easy,” you weren’t paying attention.

Second, divorce laws were reformed in the 1980s and gays are being allowed to marry in 2013. “Constantly” is hyperbole defined.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:01 pm
No one has yet to explain what makes Marriage Marriage? What sets it apart from other sorts of human relationships like friendship, business partners, siblings, etc.? Where and what is the dividing line between a spouse and a friend? Is it just aquestion of what the state decides to call Marriage or is there some deeper meaning that exists beyond the declarations of a political process? With respect to the matter of my choice of words like constantly, that is why I used it.

Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:17 pm
“we haven’t followed Illinois’ cues since the Civil War”

Ha ha, ain’t that the truth. Then people say they want to move to Indiana because of right to work and lower taxes and wages? They can have it.

I believe that states like Indiana provide Illinois a road map–to go in the opposite direction.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:20 pm
==What sets it apart from other sorts of human relationships like friendship, business partners, siblings, etc.? ==

Are you serious?

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:26 pm
–No one has yet to explain what makes Marriage Marriage?–

It’s defined by statute.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:27 pm
===What sets it apart from other sorts of human relationships like friendship, business partners, siblings, etc.? ===

Dude, we aren’t college sophomores here and most of us, I think, aren’t smoking dope right now, so you can either take your dorm gab elsewhere or catch up to reality.

To everyone else, don’t feed this troll any more.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:38 pm
come to Indiana…. we want your business… and we are prepared to segregate certain of your employees who shouldnt be coming to our state anyway… so please relocate here…. unless you are owned by one of those people…. or support those people. We learned our lesson after the civil war and wont be tricked into treating all men and women equally.

Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:38 pm
Something that connects Dems and Repubs in this debate: the advantage of federalism is you get to try something out on a smaller state scale, see if it works, what the impact is. Yes you run a localized risk but that’s true of near anything.

If gay marriage wasn’t legal anywhere in the US, you’d be free to make up any doom-and-gloom story under the sun about what happens after you enact it. If it’s only legal in 1 or 2 states, you’ll say whatever happens is about those 1 or 2 states. We’re moving now out of the hypotheticals. It will be increasingly difficult for people to buy these “Gay marriage will lead to nuclear war!” debating hypotheticals.

In New Jersey, I’ve read, they’ve argued that not allowing drivers to pump their own gas saves money because of all the injuries people don’t receive slipping and falling while trying to fill their tank. If there really were a mandatory law banning people from filling their own gas tanks in all 50 states, I suppose a fair number of people might be persuaded by that, too.

Comment by ZC Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:39 pm
@Wordslinger:

The institution of marriage predated the Illinois Compiled Statutes. The first recorded miracle of Christ’s public ministry occurred at a traditional marriage celebration.

@Mister Ritchie: Are you suggesting that the tornadoes were not caused by global warming? Sheesh.

Comment by Anon Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:43 pm
Re: Indiana not following Illinois. Glad to see that Illinois does not follow Indiana! For example Illinois has certainly had its share of shady politicians but Indiana elected a governor in 1924 who was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. At the height of the Klan’s power there were an estimated 250,000 members in Indiana. A newspaperman revealed that over half of the Indiana legislators were Klansmen.

Comment by Nearly Normal Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:46 pm
==The institution of marriage predated the Illinois Compiled Statutes.==

The legal part of marriage is now granted by the state. So it doesn’t really matter what pre-dated state statutes does it?

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:47 pm
–The institution of marriage predated the Illinois Compiled Statutes. The first recorded miracle of Christ’s public ministry occurred at a traditional marriage celebration.–

No kidding. And that institution allowed for polygamy, arranged marriages with minors, first-cousin marriage, etc.

Want to go back to the good old days of traditional, Biblical marriage? How about we write our own civil laws here in 2013?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:53 pm
Anon, the first recorded marriage was long before jesus birth. It was recorded to track the ownership rights of the husband to his property. His property being the women and her dorey he now owned. This way no one else could claim his property.

Much of developed english law on marriage from early history was about the traditional right to own your spouse. This is were the rule of thumb comes from. The rule of thumb is that you may be your wife with a stick no thicker then your thumb.

Good old traditional values….

Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 1:57 pm
Ok, Downstater, just once, I’ll try to explain.

“No one has yet to explain what makes Marriage Marriage? What sets it apart from other sorts of human relationships like friendship, business partners, siblings, etc.?”

Marriage has been seen as encompassing various relationships by various peoples throughout human history. Some ancient cultures, including in Europe, Africa, and the Americas, had no problem with marriage for same-sex couples. Some churches in the last 50 years or so, including Christian churches, have had no problem recognizing same-sex couples as married, regardless of what government does. That’s a religious matter for those churches to decide, as it remains for any church even under Illinois’ new law. That said, for reasons having to do with practical matters such as joint ownership of property, child custody and support, as well as inheritance, the governments of Illinois and the U.S. regulate marriage as a legal contract, same as any other contract, to ensure fairness and for the public good. That Illinois has recognized the need to change its laws in order to ensure equality in the rights, responsibilities, and economic benefits it bestows on families is a good thing. It’s not a religious statement; that sort of thing is the province of churches. It’s a matter of recognizing the need to be fair in the way our civil laws affect all our citizens.

Comment by OldSmoky2 Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 2:02 pm
Well, sorry, Rich, I was writing that last response before I saw your last post. No more feeding.

Comment by OldSmoky2 Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 2:04 pm
It makes my skin crawl when I hear or read somebody claiming the bible says this or that about some controversial social topic.

Having spent a number of years in the belly of the religio-industrial complex, I found out that some of the meanest and most cruel people were the “respected gentry” of the church. It also made me realize that the bible was written by man and is interpreted by people who willingly take things out of context and ignore that which conflicts with their preconceived notions of what the “bible” should say.

Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 3:08 pm
Nice to see JBT leading the cheers at the bill signing.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 4:01 pm
Rev. Woulfe is a stand up guy. Met him at the rally for SSM last winter and he impressed me. Glad to see him getting some exposure, the UUAC is an interesting place.

Comment by Colossus Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 5:16 pm
For the record, the National Weather Service forecast the highly likelihood of tornadoes in Illinois a day ahead and cited atmospheric conditions not an upset deity as the cause.

Comment by Pot calling kettle Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 7:02 pm
Big props for Comptroller Topinka, you had the line of the day, good on you.

Big props to the supports there who cheered, and cheered LOUDLY for the GOP members who voted for SB10 to become Law.

Don’t forget… Sen. Barickman, Rep. Sullivan, Rep. Sandack, and My Representative, Candidate for state Treasurer, Tom Cross.

Good on all. Democrat or Republican.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 20, 13 @ 9:06 pm
It will be increasingly difficult for people to buy these “Gay marriage will lead to nuclear war!

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/10/10996/

Of course, its not so good for children…

Comment by Pat Thursday, Nov 21, 13 @ 10:11 am