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“Conversion therapy” bill advances

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Illinois

* From a press release…

Equality Illinois is calling on the Illinois House of Representatives to protect minors by passing the Conversion Therapy Prohibition Act this spring after the House Human Services Committee approved it today by a 9 to 6 vote.

Bernard Cherkasov, CEO of Equality Illinois, the state’s oldest and largest advocacy organization for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Illinoisans, said so-called “conversion therapies” for youths pretend to supposedly “cure” people of being gay, but have actually proven to be very harmful and are actively opposed by leading mental health and medical professional groups.

“This bill would ensure that the most vulnerable individuals, those already struggling in the face of homophobia and transphobia, are not targeted and subjected to a practice that medical practitioners deem harmful and inappropriate,” Cherkasov said.

The measure would prohibit mental health providers from engaging in any effort to change the sexual orientation of anyone under the age of 18. The bill’s chief House sponsor is state Rep. Kelly Cassidy.

* An August, 2013 Sun-Times editorial also endorsed the concept…

Conversion therapy — trying to turn gay teenagers straight — is awful in three ways:

◆ It does not work.

◆ It can do considerable harm.

◆ It is unnecessary.

On Monday, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie signed a bill banning gay conversion therapy in the Garden State, to which we can only say “hallelujah.”

Now when will Illinois do the same?

* The Illinois Family Institute, however, is staunchly opposed…

Lesbian state representative and activist for all things homosexual, Kelly Cassidy (D-Chicago) has introduced yet another terrible piece of legislation that ultimately redounds to the detriment of children.

Rep. Cassidy has proposed “The Conversion Therapy Prohibition Act” (HB 5569), which would prohibit all licensed mental health providers in Illinois from helping minors change their unwanted same-sex attraction. For those who have been paying attention, this is the same kind of pernicious legislation that passed in California and New Jersey but was stopped in Virginia. […]

Here are just a few of the serious problems with this legislation:

It would prevent those children and teens who experience unwanted same-sex attraction as a result of sexual abuse from getting counseling to overcome these unwanted feelings. Some “progressives” argue that homosexuality is not a choice and, therefore, attempts to change one’s “orientation” are exercises in futility and damaging. But arguing that same-sex attraction is not chosen does not mean its cause is benign or the feelings desirable. Some adults experience same-sex attraction because of childhood molestation. For them, same-sex attraction is neither chosen nor wanted.

Several years ago, Oprah Winfrey had a compelling two-part program in which her audience was composed of 200 men who had been sexually molested as children. One of her guests was Dr. Howard Fradkin, a homosexual licensed psychologist who treats clients for sexual orientation confusion resulting from childhood molestation. He stated on the program that children who are sexually molested can, indeed, experience “sexual orientation confusion” as a result. If this legislation passes, children traumatized by abuse will no longer be allowed to receive counseling for unwanted same-sex attraction.

This proposed law is utterly inconsistent with the “progressive” view that children and teens should be allowed to pursue medical means to change their sex if they don’t like it. How do those who claim children and teens should be able to change their unwanted biological sex (i.e., bodies) then argue that children and teens should not be allowed to change their unwanted “sexual orientation”? What, other than hypocrisy and crass political ends, can account for the Left’s sudden lack of respect for teen autonomy? Any minor who experiences unwanted same-sex attraction should be free with their parents’ consent to undergo counseling to change these feelings.

This legislation presumes that same-sex attraction is fixed, a presumption for which the proponents of this kind of legislation provide no evidence and which is disputed by both “Queer Theory” and research. There is research that provides evidence that “sexual orientation” is fluid, particularly among adolescents. If sexual orientation is not fixed and if minors want to receive counseling to reduce or eliminate same-sex attraction, they should be free with their parents’ consent to receive such counseling.

This legislation presumes without evidence that sexual orientation change efforts for unwanted same-sex attraction in adolescence are damaging. There are no outcome-based studies on adolescents undergoing sexual orientation change effort therapy. It is indefensible to ban forms of therapy for which there is no evidence of harm.

This legislation presumes without evidence that homosexuality is biologically determined. The entire “born gay” foundation, dismissed by many homosexual scholars, is crumbling. In a must-read article, David Benkof explains that never in the history of mankind prior to about 150 years ago, was there such a thing as a homosexual person, a claim that even homosexual scholars acknowledge […]

Cassidy’s proposed legislation is destructive, unethical, and dishonest. It depends on unproven, non-factual, non-evidence-based assumptions that even homosexual scholars reject but the public continues to buy hook, line, and sinker. The ultimate motivation behind this legislation is to promote the Leftist assumptions of adult homosexuals who seek to wipe disapproval of homosexual acts from the face of the planet even if doing requires deception, harms children, undermines parental rights, and corrodes fundamental First Amendment speech and religious liberty.

Whew. The world appears to be ending, according to that group.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:13 am

Comments

Does Cassidy have any other obligations to her constituents? Her entire legislative career seems to be centered on advancing the gay agenda. Illinois is facing bigger problems than this. She needs to get her priorities in order. Cassidy is a member of the Illinois General Assembly not a student body group on a university campus.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:19 am
The state has a responsibility to protect minors from the charlatans who peddle this hateful quackery.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:20 am
If the medical science (such as it is for anything in therapy) says this is harmful and the law applies to minors, I don’t see a big problem with banning this.

If some kid goes through something that causes issues I would hope this wouldn’t prevent legitimate treatment in some way. Since it would seem that this would apply to ‘talk therapy’ I am guessing the professional is given some latitude.

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:25 am
Protecting children from this atrocity is an admirable priority UFR. I’m pretty sure most representatives advance issues that are close to their heart. I’m also pretty sure you don’t mind when they do.

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:25 am
Don’t they have anything else important to do in Springfield? What a waste of time. If your gay your gay. Who cares anymore!

Comment by Union Man Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:25 am
“the gay agenda”

What is that?

From what I know about reparative therapy, or conversion therapy, it’s based in religion. I’m so glad we’re moving past that. It’s not based in reality and is discriminatory. It is meant to demean gay people. I hope that we move more toward accepting homosexuality and transgender individuals.

“Leftist assumptions of adult homosexuals who seek to wipe disapproval of homosexual acts from the face of the planet”

They can scream all they want. We as a society are moving past this.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:26 am
@ Union Man -

Apparently the IFI cares.

Comment by Joan P. Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:27 am
I agree that it should be done, but where does it rank as a priority for the benefit of the majority of the citizens? Anybody else volunteer to cut the grass before, or instead of, doing their math homework? Some of us have grown up.

Comment by Weltschmerz Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:29 am
“Upon further review”- I think you need to further review her legislative record… Passing marriage equality and working on this means that’s her entire agenda?

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Comment by Anon Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:30 am
“upon further review”; as a previous elected official I always felt it important to look out for the interest of the minority; you go Casidy.

Comment by Jim'e' Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:34 am
The traditional family structure is also based upon religious precepts as is the government of the USA if you read the writings of the Founders.

There has been an organized political movement in the USA to decriminalize homosexual activities since the Fifties and to promote public awareness and acceptance of gay lifestyles. Interestingly, one such group, the Mattachine Society chose to model itself upon the CPUSA in terms of its political tactics.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:36 am
If IFI doesn’t stop talking about gay issues all of the time, they might catch it. They’ve heard it is contagious.

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:38 am
Upon Further Review,

As anon noted, you really have no clue.

Kelly is involved in a wide variety of issues. The Fair Tax, minimum wage, a number of changes to the criminal code, and then things like urban flooding and the Condominium Act.

UFR, she’s not the one focused on a single issue. Instead, you are.

Comment by Smoggie Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:38 am
I get tired of people who seem to think that just because a legislator may have an interest in a particular issue, they are not doing anything else. They are confronted with hundreds, if not thousands, of votes each session on a myriad of issues. They ARE serving their constituents in that regard.

It’s like whenever a legislator tries to sidestep discussion of an issue by saying, “I think our focus should be on [insert issue here] instead.” If any members of the General Assembly cannot “focus” on more than one issue in a legislative session, perhaps they should step down and let somebody who’s capable of considering and analyzing multiple topics at a time take over.

Comment by ??? Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:40 am
I am fully supportive of gay rights, including gay marriage, but this legislation gives me pause. I tend to lean toward allowing parents to make decisions as to what is best for their children, rather than the state, no matter how goofy the “therapy” may be. I certainly do see the other side too — that this “therapy” can be damaging to children. I also think, if it passes, it will be relatively easy to work around — so the therapist won’t refer to it as conversion therapy, it will just be “counseling” in the basement of some church. I don’t profess to have the right answer, but I struggle with the legislation a bit.

Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:41 am
As someone who reads the two daily newspapers, one seldom sees Cassidy’s name in print associated with anything other than gay issues. Maybe she needs a new press secretary to publicize her other activities.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:42 am
Kelly Cassidy is my rep. She does more than just LGBT bills, but those don’t get as much press. Yesterday, she was working on a bill about marijuana. Saturday was the environment. Friday was the SS offset to UI.

Comment by RKChicago Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:43 am
I think I’d be opposed to anything that attempts to get a teenager to make life long decisions at a time when the world might be more confusing to them than any other period in their lives.

Of all of the gay people I’m fortunate to have as good friends, most would tell you they knew they were gay prior to their teenage years. Without exception, they would tell you that if they had a “choice”, they would never “choose” a life that would become so utterly challenging. If you’re hetero, imagine being coerced into being homosexual to conform. Doesn’t work. God loves gays too. He made them, just as he made the rest of us.

Comment by A guy... Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:44 am
“There has been an organized political movement in the USA to decriminalize homosexual activities”. Well I should certainly hope so. I’ve heard there was an organized political movement to give blacks equal rights as well. Was that sinister as well?

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:44 am
When are we going to stop trying to “regulate” every thing in life? Oh, it’s my time to go to the bathroom! ‘cuse me!

Comment by Union Man Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:45 am
By the way, I’m amused by the view of Illinois Family Institute that Kelly has some sort of strange and deviant lifestyle.

Unless she’s hiding her devious nature, her Facebook posts seem to read like those of any other mom. While she does talk a bit about her work (who doesn’t?) most of it involves things like watching the Blackhawks with her kids and the day to day antics of married life with kids and a dog in the city.

If the IFI really cared about families, they would look at Kelly and see a devoted parent working hard to raise kids. And that’s what family life is supposed to be about.

Comment by Smoggie Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:47 am
Being obsessed about same-sex sex is pretty gay, IFI!

Comment by Nonplussed Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:47 am
The problem with a government that feels compelled to intrude into our lives, is the political groups that use that government intrusion to tell us how to live our lives.

We went from a 1950’s “Father Knows Best” sitcom standard for families to a 2010 “Modern Family” sitcom standard for families. Sadly, both are fiction and both sitcoms, not reality.

The next generation will demand upon families an entirely new fictional sitcom standard, and thanks to our ever helpful government, use our laws to enforce it upon everyone.

The good news is that the kids we damage with our political agenda have a lifetime to repair the damage.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:49 am
A guy, I always wonder if those folks who think it is a choice are saying something about themselves. I mean they’re so sure it is a choice, it makes you wonder if they “chose” to be straight.

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:49 am
If two Catholic parents choose to enroll their child in a parochial school, will they be violating the proposed law? This assumes that the child would be receiving traditional religious instruction. But if the student had counseling services available too?

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:50 am
Upon further review, perhaps it’s the staff of the papers you read that is obsessed with her work on “gay issues.” If you took half a second to Google Rep. Cassidy, you would see a list of legislation she has sponsored/co-sponsored:

http://ilga.gov/house/RepBills.asp?MemberID=2002

You’re welcome.

Comment by ??? Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:50 am
No, need. I am in the district.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:54 am
The traditional family structure is also based upon religious precepts as is the government of the USA if you read the writings of the Founders.

Quick, someone tell the Founders!

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” — The Treaty of Tripoli, submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:57 am
VMan, I don’t understand your point. It seems to be that government intrusion is bad. I’d agree, but not in this case. This is telling folks you cannot harm kids. Can’t we agree harming kids is bad?

As to the sitcom point, I’m not sure where that was going. Is it to say that our sitcoms are now advocating lifestyles you deem unacceptable? Well they don’t cause folks to be gay. They might promote acceptance, but is that really a bad thing?

Comment by Jimbo Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:58 am
To the merits –

We have a lot of regulations over medical care, either on the basis that it is so helpful that it should be required (i.e. vaccinations) or that it is so dangerous it should be banned (certain drugs).

We’ve seen parents charged criminally for failing to get medical care for their children (the parents usually cite some religious belief that prayer is the only answer).

So there is nothing particularly unusual about the state stepping in to either require or outlaw certain medical care.

Does the evidence support Kelly on this? I haven’t a clue. I haven’t looked at any of the research. But she’s got the opportunity to present her case and if she’s right, having her bill passed would be completely consistent with a number of other laws on the books.

For those complaining about big government, realize that there is simply nothing ground-breaking about this bill. We’ve been it this way for decades.

Comment by Smoggie Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 9:59 am
Upon Further Review: they can get the counseling services during the time they’re not learning about dinosaurs!

Comment by Nonplussed Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:00 am
There is nothing worse than people who attack legislators for advancing “the Gay Agenda.” The only “Gay agenda” that exists: Have the same rights and live just like everyone else. Illinois has more pressing problems? Imagine living a life where you had less rights, were ostracized by regressive political groups, and bullied for something over which you have no control. This problem has been pressing since Illinois was started. It’s been pressing since before any of us were born. I’d say it’s about time someone had the courage to deal with it.

Comment by Bunson8r Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:07 am
==David Benkof explains that never in the history of mankind prior to about 150 years ago, was there such a thing as a homosexual person==

I don’t even know how they say such things with a straight face.

The IPI is a hate group. They have zero value as an organization.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:16 am
The original Illinois law that decriminalized homosexual acts between consenting adults in private seemed to be sufficient. That was enacted fifty-two years ago.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:17 am
“This proposed law is utterly inconsistent with the “progressive” view that children and teens should be allowed to pursue medical means to change their sex if they don’t like it. How do those who claim children and teens should be able to change their unwanted biological sex (i.e., bodies) then argue that children and teens should not be allowed to change their unwanted “sexual orientation”?”

This is either disingenuous or completely ignorant. One’s gender and one’s sexual orientation (gay, straight, bi) are not connected.

Comment by Jabes Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:19 am
I’m sorry. I meant to say the IFI.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:21 am
Is “homosexual scholars” the new “my black friend?” Who are these scholars? Don’t bother answering, they don’t exist.

Comment by MEP Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:26 am
One’s gender and one’s sexual orientation (gay, straight, bi) are not connected.

LOL! Perhaps you wish - but for 96% of humans and 99% of animals - it most definitely IS!

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:35 am
VMan, are you unaware that transgendered people can be gay or straight?

Comment by Jabes Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:53 am
It’s bad enough the anti-gay haters feel they must demonize and degrade homosexuals in every statement they make. Why they have to make personal attacks against their advocates as well amazes me. If you believe in homosexual freedom and rights, there’s something wrong with you, too?

UFR, look in the mirror, or your soul, and tell me what you see.

Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 10:57 am
good for reo cassidy. She is an excellent legislator involved with lots of issues. this is one thanks God she is involved.

Comment by bill ryan Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 11:04 am
@Wensicia:

I thought that Progressives claimed that the soul was a dated theological concept.

I see someone tired of activists intent upon forcing me to accept their leftwing values and crackpot viewpoints in the name of “diversity.”
Do what you want, but do not demand that I subscribe.

Why do so many gay activists have to degrade traditionalists or promote abortion? The leader of Personal PAC is one example.

You do not help your cause when the House advances new vote suppression legislation that alleges that ballots are being denied in Illinois polling places on the basis of sexual orientation. I am unaware of any instance where a voter was denied the right to vote on account of their sexual orientation.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 11:13 am
Vanilla Man - think it through; I don’t think you understand the statement that gender and sexual orientation are not connected.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 11:28 am
Illinois Family Institute = The Rage of the Drowning Man.

Comment by LincolnLounger Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 11:39 am
I’m so glad I would never have considered “conversion therapy” for my wonderful son!

IFI are criminals.

Comment by Midwest Mom Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 12:01 pm
I supported SB 10 and I deplore IFI, but I don’t think that necessarily means that this bill is a good idea. (1) Too soon after SB 10; it gives hard-liners on the right the ammunition to call more traditionalist marriage supporters who supported marriage equality as a fair and lasting solution look like pawns and dupes. Not a great way to hold a coalition together. (2) There’s a whole lot of gray in this bill in current form. I’d be concerned that it would play like the Latin American abortion bans have played–where practitioners will deny care to women with ectopic pregnancies because they fear being accused of straying over an ambiguous line. How would a practitioner feel safe treating a case of temporary gender confusion with such a poorly drafted bill? Do we feel comfortable either with consigning the details to bureaucratic whims or to the vagaries of the rulemaking process? (3) Same-sex marriage proponents have succeeded in large part because they convinced the political mainstream (which, at least as far as it thinks about it, prefers to take the side of the little guy against his/her oppressors) that same sex couples were being denied equal treatment under the law, and that their opponents were motivated by a hateful impulse to deny them a fundamental part of their identity. This bill (notwithstanding the real abuses it aims to curtail) may well deprive the marriage equality lobby of its hard-won aura of justified victimhood and may, in the eyes of many erstwhile or potential allies, cast it as an aggressor instead.

Comment by Via media Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 12:58 pm
Thought experiment: could traditionalists feel confident that such a law would be as faithfully enforced in preventing the encouragement of a straight but confused child to change to an LGBTQ orientation as it would in preventing an LGBTQ but confused child from being encouraged to go the other way?

Comment by Via media Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 12:59 pm
Vanilla Man - let me try. Imagine you have 100 marbles. 50 white, 50 black. 2 of the black marbles and two of the white marbles have a little bump. It would be correct to say that 96% of the black marbles have no bump and 96% of white marbles have no bump. It doesn’t mean that the color of the marbles is connected to whether they have a bump.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 1:01 pm
It was must a good law if that hate group is against it.

Comment by Chavez-respecting Obamist Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 1:19 pm
==The traditional family structure is also based upon religious precepts as is the government of the USA if you read the writings of the Founders.==

Why do we prohibit plural marriage? That is the traditional religious family structure as existed for thousands of years. Monogamy is new nonsense that has only been peddled for a few hundred.

==The original Illinois law that decriminalized homosexual acts between consenting adults in private seemed to be sufficient. That was enacted fifty-two years ago.==

Right, and the 15th Amendment gave black men in America the right to vote and that was that! Nothing more needed to be done!

==Why do so many gay activists have to degrade traditionalists==

Tradition: racism, sexism, homophobia, prejudice and discrimination. Why are traditionalists such misanthropes?

Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 1:36 pm
===There has been an organized political movement in the USA to decriminalize homosexual activities since the Fifties and to promote public awareness and acceptance of gay lifestyles. Interestingly, one such group, the Mattachine Society chose to model itself upon the CPUSA in terms of its political tactics.

Shocking, a group that hasn’t been active since the 1960s was modeled on something that has never been relevant.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:05 pm
=== am fully supportive of gay rights, including gay marriage, but this legislation gives me pause. I tend to lean toward allowing parents to make decisions as to what is best for their children, rather than the state, no matter how goofy the “therapy” may be. I certainly do see the other side too — that this “therapy” can be damaging to children. I also think, if it passes, it will be relatively easy to work around — so the therapist won’t refer to it as conversion therapy, it will just be “counseling” in the basement of some church. I don’t profess to have the right answer, but I struggle with the legislation a bit.

We have standards for professional conduct–this is just one of those. We don’t allow parents to send their kids to abusive treatment either, though there has been a fairly long history of that kind of ‘treatment’ dressed up in faith.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:08 pm
Yet another outrageous claim of a link between sexual abuse/molestation and homosexuality.

When will this myth die?

Comment by Left Leaner Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:16 pm
===How would a practitioner feel safe treating a case of temporary gender confusion with such a poorly drafted bill? Do we feel comfortable either with consigning the details to bureaucratic whims or to the vagaries of the rulemaking process?===

Fair point, and perhaps that could be tightened up with input from psychology and psychiatric professionals and/or their associations. But I think this bill is aimed at the ridiculous and destructive “pray away the gay” programs and not directed to licensed professionals.

It is language that shouldn’t be too difficult to craft and ought to be considered.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:21 pm
@Archpundit:

Never relevant? In what way? Because Gus Hall was not elected? One of their causes was to rebrand themselves by infiltrating a major political party in the USA. Why vote CPUSA when the Democrats have adopted their platform? Even David Canter was running as a Democrat before he died. I think that we can have a discussion on how well that effort has succeeded.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:27 pm
UFR, I think you’re on to (or on) something.

Clearly, the gays and the Commies have joined forces to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:42 pm
It should be noted that the Illinois Family Institute is listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an active hate group - and as such, their information/press releases should be treated with the same skepticism as afforded other hate-speech filled religious extremist groups like Westboro Baptist Church and Pacific Justice Institute*.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay/active_hate_groups

*note: PJI was caught lying/faking a situation in order to create a trans panic targeting a teenager in Colorado; the purpose was to sway the outcome of California’s AB1266, the School Success and Opportunity Act. See http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/mother-transphobic-smear-campaign-target-defends-daughter

Comment by Kat2014 Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 2:51 pm
Good, on point Gen. Jack T. Ripper reference wordslinger. Up there for purposes of this debate with “I don’t dislike women Mandrake . . . but I do deny them my essence.”

Comment by Anon Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 3:23 pm
==Never relevant? In what way? Because Gus Hall was not elected? One of their causes was to rebrand themselves by infiltrating a major political party in the USA. Why vote CPUSA when the Democrats have adopted their platform? Even David Canter was running as a Democrat before he died. I think that we can have a discussion on how well that effort has succeeded.==

We’ll have that discussion at the same time as the discussion about David Duke, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, and the GOP.

But really, please stop hoarding the tin foil and leave some for the rest of us.

Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 3:24 pm
Strom Thurmond? The former Democratic Presidential candidate with the secret African American daughter? He is almost as bad as the Democrat from Alabama.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 3:34 pm
–Strom Thurmond? The former Democratic Presidential candidate–

Truman was the Democratic Party nominee. Thurmond ran on a third-party line, the States Rights Democratic Party.

You’re really working the Wayback Machine today. What do you think about those Rosenbergs?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 3:40 pm
Guilty.

Comment by Upon Further Review Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 3:48 pm
==David Benkof explains that never in the history of mankind prior to about 150 years ago, was there such a thing as a homosexual person==

Mr. Benkof, may I introduce you to Sappho of Lesbos. Sappho, may I introduce you to Mr. Benkof.

Comment by G'Kar Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 4:53 pm
Jimmy Swaggert was into that turning gays straight, never worked.

Christie looks like this issue put him back in the race.

Comment by Mokenavince Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 7:33 pm
–Jimmy Swaggert was into that turning gays straight, never worked.–

Jimmy was into all sorts of freaky stuff back in the day, as was his cousin, The Killer.

But they’re both still wailing.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 26, 14 @ 8:46 pm
“Upon Further Review,” are you really suggesting your intended LGBT American victims are “the real bullies”? Anti-gays shriek that nonsense constantly. Trust me, not one normal, non-homophobic American is fooled by that obvious attempt at “projection.” Just when and where did LGBT Americans, for example, cook up a Hate Vote to deprive anti-gays of their right to marry the person they love? Anti-gays are not being “bullied” if we don’t allow them to torture gay teens.

Comment by CarrotCakeMan Thursday, Mar 27, 14 @ 4:45 pm