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* From In These Times…
AFSCME’s and other unions’ efforts failed to prevent Rauner’s victory over Quinn, and Illinois public employees now face an uncertain future. When their contract expires in July 2015, workers will have to renegotiate with a governor who has questioned the very validity of collective bargaining rights for public employees (and even refused to say whether he believes such rights are valid for any kind of worker).
The union is planning to meet with Rauner for the first time in early December to talk contracts. In preparation, the 200-plus members of the AFSCME contract team convened in Springfield, Illinois, last week to hold a “demands meeting.”
No one knows but Rauner how he will engage with AFSCME, says Brent Eliot (not his real name), a delegate from an Illinois city, and this led to a tense demands meeting.
On the one hand, says Eliot, the union emphasized readiness in case “things go badly” with Rauner, setting up a phone tree among members to quickly communicate about workplace actions such as a “button day” (when all employees at a given workplace don pins with a common message), wearing all the same shirt to work, or going out to the street on lunch break to picket.
Because of a no-strike clause in their current contract, AFSCME members are not allowed to strike—Eliot says that AFSCME discourages workers from even using the word “strike.”
“It was stressed to us at the meeting that we’d have to [report] back to our members that we’ve got to get ready—not to strike, but to do something,” says Eliot.
On the other hand, Eliot claims that leadership at the meeting censured some of the more ambitious proposals for demands that came from the contract team, pushing for more “modesty” in their bargaining, though he declined to give details about what those scaled-back proposals were.
Discuss.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:47 am
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I wish ASCME all the best.
I wish the new Administration all the best too.
Until they both figure, now, that they need each other, until that realization happens, it has a recipe to be messy.
These discussions might be better drama than the Legislative dance that will be going on too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:55 am
Henry Bayer picked the right time to retire.
Comment by Western Ave. Doug Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:55 am
Let’s hope Afscme bargains in good faith for what is good for the citizens of Illinois, who pays their salary and benefits.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:57 am
AFSCME is getting off to a bad start by holding a “demands” meeting. They need to temper their in-you-face attitude or they are going to be in for a rough ride next year.
At some point the members will realize that Rauner has a problem with union leaders and not with the workers themselves.
Comment by cassiopeia Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:58 am
If they think they can manage better than a COLA increase in total compensation (salary and benefits), including longevity, I think AFCSME’s living in a fool’s paradise.
Few Illinois workers are getting even that, and public employees should share similar pain to the average Illinois citizen/taxpayer.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:58 am
Modesty may apply to AFSCME demands but I doubt it will apply to Rauner’s. This will be a rough year for AFSCME and its members. It’s been a rough 8 years for MC employees.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:58 am
Queries: if there is a no-strike clause in the contract, potentially the AFSCME members could be locked out when it expires? Does the contract allow for binding arbitration (maybe a hi/lo mumber deal) to resolve a contractual dispute?
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 9:59 am
Oh NO, an All Same Shirts Day protest! Rauner must be shaking in his Carhart. Why didn’t Gandi and King think of this hard nose protest tactic
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:00 am
Lets hope Bruce bargains in good faith for what is good for the citizens of Illinois. The citizens pay his salary.
Comment by Del Clinkton Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:00 am
If the contract expires, AFSCME can strike. Some positions can not strike under any circumstance such state police.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:02 am
If enough cameras will be assured, Jesse Jackson will sign on for a locked arms protest march. At least until the cameras leave.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:03 am
They should negotiate a new contract while quinn is still governor
Comment by foster brooks Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:06 am
“Let’s hope Afscme bargains in good faith for what is good for the citizens of Illinois, who pays their salary and benefits.”
Are state employees not also tax paying Illinois citizens who work for those wages? Many of which are still owed thousands of dollars in past due wages going back several years that were bargained for in good faith as well. Understandably there might be a small trust issue. It is pretty obvious that the employees are the ones who act in the best interest of the people they serve. And those same citizens also pay the salary and benefits of the legislators on the other side of the table. Something easily dismissed by most.
Comment by Anthony Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:10 am
Striking is very grave, and I’m hoping we don’t have to resort to striking.
There is an understanding, however, among some union leaders and members that Rauner can’t be too harsh, because his firm fattened itself up on unionized government worker pensions, and it would be the height of hypocrisy for Rauner to be too harsh.
Rauner has a current contract model that he can follow, since the current AFSCME contract supposedly saves the state hundreds of millions of dollars (via healthcare cost increases to workers, I think).
I am hoping for negotiations to go as smoothly as possible. It’s an obstacle I don’t think the state needs right now, to get all snagged up in a bitter contract fight that could be avoided.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:12 am
AFSME is in for an awakening. Maybe one of our resident historians can comment on this, but when was the last time AFSME had to bargain with a governor is owes them nothing?
Comment by Ahoy! Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:12 am
Our current Governor has negotiated contracts and then refused to abide by the Contract. Even after the first contract was not followed by the current administration. AFSCME negotiated a new contract even while litigation was pending on the old one. Its all a game if the Governor is Democrat its all good. If the Governor is Republican he is the Devil. Even though AFSCME was thrown under the bus by Quinn, no major protest. When Ryan was Governor, AFSCME had thousand go to Capital and protest, several times?
Comment by Quinn Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:15 am
@AzBob-
Average Illinois private sector wage increases:
2011-2.6%
2012-2.9%
2013-3.0%
2014-3.4%
I’d say if AFSCME could get that, they better run with it.
Comment by Will Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:17 am
There’s an opportunity for both AFSCME and Rauner to get a deal done here, something that would be good for everyone in the state. It’s going to be a matter of pride in a lot of respects, and I’d advise both of them to avoid publicly staking out any specific positions until and if it becomes absolutely necessary.
Comment by chi Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:18 am
@anthony:
Good post. Thank you. Yes, Union Member also pay taxes too.
Comment by Del Clinkton Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:18 am
Did somebody inform them their candidate lost?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:20 am
It has been 10 years since a raise for some mc staff. Raunner can pay back some of the millions he made off nursing homes and pension fund investments.
Comment by Yatzi Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:23 am
Why should Rauner “negotiate” in good faith? AFSCME is tin-eared and inflexible. My guess would be that he will propose zero COLA contracts and steep increases in pension contributions and insurance premiums, and he likely will not budge from that.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:25 am
Why would anyone looking for a job go to work for the state of Illinois? When I have people ask me for career advice, I warn them that if they want to go into some sort of career with the state, I advise them to move to another state.
Comment by Aldyth Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:25 am
Hopefully both sides will see that working together at this time is in their mutual benefit. Rauner does himself no favors by aggressivley bargaining and frocing a lock-out/Strike. Long term it will cloud everything he does while souring the ublics view of him.
At the same time if AFSCME comes offf as petulant and tone deaf by making unreasonable demands they risk losing public support as well. After the bashing the pensions as Quinn did there is already some resentment out there fanning that is probably a bad idea.
Personally i’d like to see the Legislature place a cap and floor on State Employee salaries. Say within 10% either way of state (or county) average salary for same occupation and 10% of National average for those occupations without a private sector counterpart.
Afscme seems to do an excellent job with non-professional occupations (clerical, janitors, etc.) but a terrible job with proffesional positions (engineers, lawyers, etc.) and then there are the Merit Comps.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:30 am
@Will
=@AzBob-
Average Illinois private sector wage increases:
2011-2.6%
2012-2.9%
2013-3.0%
2014-3.4%
I’d say if AFSCME could get that, they better run with it.=
I agree, but those are averages, not medians where half get more and half get less. It would also be fair to include ALL employees in the averages. do you have those numbers?
Another important metric is change in household income for Illinoisans.
BTW, can you think of any justification for increasing public employee compensation (not just salary) more than COLA? In private sector work it can be justified by improving productivity through technology and smart management, and market determined (rather than collectively bargained determined) values.
Has public employee productivity uncreased enough to justify that level of raises?
This isn’t just a flame, I’d really like to know.
I do know that productivity in Illinois public education has really nosedived in the last decade.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:35 am
Aldyh - I agree - I have advised a number of people not to come to work for thr state - that is a reversal of previous years - and the state called me - I did not ask for a position - my only regret is not having left and turning down other positions - I now take home less than I did 10 years ago - the union is needed and the merit comp staff can prove it.
Comment by Yatzi Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:39 am
AFSCME an organization that has had no long term plan for the past eight years is facing their day of reckoning, and they still have no plan according to the passage above.
After closings of state facilities from 2010 - 2013 leadership encourages their rank and file members to demonize Pat Quinn. However, they don’t do thorough research on who might be running for governor (Bruce Rauner). Three weeks before the primary leadership attempts to organize to defeat Bruce Rauner. After this unsuccessful attempt they have to go back and tell their rank and file members they need to back Pat Quinn, the governor who they protested at the State Fair in 2012, and been demonizing since he was sworn into office for a second term in 2011.
Now after the 2014 election, AFSCME needs to focus on their contract negotiations for 2015, which I’m sure will be devastating.
AFSCME needs to have a long-term plan not just for 2015, but the next eight years. They have been going from fire to fire, instead of wondering how these fires started. They need to anticipate more and react less. Not only have they been demonized by politicians, but by newspapers and media. Hopefully their new leadership recognizes these problems or the worst is yet to come. Already threatening to take action against a new governor, who is not sworn into office, is not the answer, especially since both sides have not even had a formal meeting.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:46 am
===Has public employee productivity uncreased enough to justify that level of raises?===
I would say it has. Compare the number of employees now with the number before Ryan’s early retirement plan.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:55 am
Ooooooo, Button Day!
Comment by Spliff Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:55 am
Don’t forget to clean house at the Illinois Tollway in Downers Grove, IL………
Comment by Wing and a Prayer Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:04 am
How soon we forget, Quinn proposed pay reductions, fewer vacation days, fewer step increases, 40 hour work week for all, and health care increases. All he got was health care increases. Bruce can propose anything he wants but what he gets will be far from what he will propose.
Comment by The Colossus of Roads Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:07 am
There is enough on Rauner’s plate to add union antagonism to it. If the new governor wishes to have a successful first term, it is in his interest to avoid it.
For a decade Illinois has experienced an remarkable shrinkage in state employees. Best in the nation. This is due to the Boomer Retirement trend currently at its conclusion. The number of new retirees will fall each year, adding to a very large group of retirees. Active and young retirees with the time to apply their expertise and free time researching and fighting threats to their pensions. These retirees appreciate what they have and understand how they earned those constitutional ly protected pensions and benefits.
After this reduction in state employees, the remaining workers are higher in experience and education. Consequently any comparisons between what had been considered appropriate fair wages and compensation needs to realistically reflect this 21st Century reality.
As technologies entered the state workforce, state workers needed higher tech computing skills, moving from tractor-fed green lined mainframe programs to databases queried through customized programs. We are now moving from desktop to mobile applications. The state workforce serving Illinois citizens today earns a high wage to accommodate the educational demands of those with post graduate degrees and specialized high tech degrees.
so I’m hopeful that AFSCME and the incoming administration recognizes that the 20th Century has ended for Illinoisans serving in state governments. Today’s workforce is lean, mean and dedicated to the new larger retirement populations and other service demands in a 21st Century high tech environment.
This costs more per person than it did 20 years ago. Let’s hope that the new administration is staffed with people as knowledgeable in this new Era of Illinois as the dedicated civil servants who live it ever day and earn everything they get.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:11 am
“AFSCME is tin-eared and inflexible.”
AFSCME overwhelmingly ratified the current contract, in which workers have increased healthcare costs.
Same goes for pension reform, when the union at least offered proposals that wound up in bill form, with SB 2404.
If Rauner is too radical and harsh in negotiations, he will most likely get a similar response from the union.
I’m all for trying to get along and find common ground.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:23 am
Before mocking things like wearing the same color shirt, realize that wearing red was very powerful for the Chicago Teachers Union in the lead up to their strike. As for negotiating with Illinois in good faith, a lot of public employees did that, then Illinois borrowed from their pension funds and refused to give the money back.
Comment by Carhart Representative Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:36 am
Rauner can drive a hard bargain by being a tough but fair negotiator. Both sides would benefit by making realistic proposals. Cost shifts toward employees, especially in light of the inevitable decision in pensions from the state supreme court are inevitable. If Rauner wants a strike, holding to the kind of massive wage reductions originally proposed by the Quinn administration would be a good way to do that. Unfortunately, no one knows at this point what to except from the Rauner administration. Most AFSCME members are aware of the states dire financial situation, and few would be surprised or shocked to learn how bad it actally is. As a result they expect a lean contact, but if they’re presented with massive wage reductions, they’ll feel like they have nothing to lose. Most importantly, Rauner and AFSCME need to come to the common realization that, like it or not, they need each other to succeed. Perhaps it’s time to borrow some ideas from Germany and have the union and management work more collaboratively toward common goals and objectives.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:38 am
Although Rich’s excerpt quotes one anonymous source, there is an official comment from the union in this piece. Here it is:
“Given all the challenges facing the state, we can’t imagine that [Rauner] would want to seek conflict or choose further division,” says Anders Lindall, spokesperson for AFSCME. … “we stand ready to be a partner to anyone of good faith that wants to work together.” He adds that AFSCME has a proven record of working productively with Republican governors.
Comment by Joe Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:46 am
@Will
=@AzBob-
Average Illinois private sector wage increases:
2011-2.6%
2012-2.9%
2013-3.0%
2014-3.4%
AFSCME
2011 - 0%
2012 - 2%
2013 - 2%
I don’t think the private sector and taxpayers should be complaining.
Comment by Rusty618 Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:46 am
Wow, must be nice to get such big increases (not snark, just a teacher)
Average Illinois private sector wage increases:
2011-2.6%
2012-2.9%
2013-3.0%
2014-3.4%
Comment by University Annuitant Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:47 am
Correction on years.
AFSCME
2012 -0%
2013 -2%
2014 -2%
Comment by Rusty618 Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:48 am
And, those paltry increases are on top of base pay which lags significantly behind the private sector, especially for professional employees. Time to stop the dog in the manger whining from the over-privileged private sector. http://news.illinois.edu/news/13/0311stateworkerwages_RobertBruno.html
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:08 pm
===those paltry increases===
Forgetting about step increases?
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:09 pm
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:11 am:
Wow. That was a great post.
Comment by Jechislo Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:12 pm
I left State employment two years ago completely disgusted watching so many do so little. Management was not allowed to impose a workload and any suggestion of such immediately brought out threats of grievances. The system selects for laziness.
Comment by former state employee Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:12 pm
Instead of all this saber-rattling, you’d think they might have taken a more practical approach through quieter back channels, at least in the beginning.
“Demands meetings”, “button days”, “same shirt day”, protest at lunchtime, etc. Really??
How about at least one, let’s have a rational chat session. I’m not sure who these members think is on their side unequivocally right now, but it looks as though it’s only the demands and buttons crowd; themselves.
There is some leverage in creating an agreement with two parties who have some bad history of late, but that appears to be out the window now. Maybe it’s time to send the scope up and look around. The environment isn’t right for this type of tone.
Sorry, but this group never seems to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. They need better, wiser leadership.
Comment by A guy... Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:20 pm
No private sector employee ever gets promoted? Are you making the exact the same entry level salary adjusted only for cost of living despite your years of experience? That study I linked to included the step increases in the assessment that public sector workers are subject to a significant wage penalty.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:22 pm
I went through a similar situation and had a hard time keeping a full staff of stewards. It’s one thing to talk tough it’s quite another to get thing done..
Comment by Mouthy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:28 pm
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:25 am:
Given previous ISC decisions on what constitutes a diminishment, I don’t think increased pension contribution levels for the same benefits will be legal for existing workers.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:37 pm
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 11:11 am:
Well said. I can attest the job requirements have been drastically upgraded compared to years ago. On one of my returns, I was asked to review the upgraded description for my old job. After reading it, my half-serious reply was: “I held the position for almost 20 years and I don’t qualify for it under this description!”
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:38 pm
Rich,
Step increases only apply for a number of years … and they don’t apply at all to the MC employees.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:39 pm
@Rich
=I would say it has. Compare the number of employees now with the number before Ryan’s early retirement plan.=
Of course outsourcing needs to be considered here. Retiring an employee then hiring them back as a “consultant” at more than their previous salary is commonplace in public education, at least at the supervisory and management level. Can’t say how much State Government outsoursing “retire-rehire” is going on. I DO know that IDOT really cheats their technical employees, primarily engineers, with not allowing them to work on IDOT projects if they move to private consulting firms where they could be most effective on IDOT projects, for some ridiculous period like 7 years. In public ed you work as a consultant the first day of retirement.
It would be interesting to look at metrics for productivity of Illinois state government organizations to those in other states. How much is the overhead/Management in actual cost and hoours per output at IDOT compared to Indian, Iowa and Wisconsin? How much money and hours are spent in Illinois for DCFS per activity conmpared to adjacent states?
This is where you start when looking to where you should be able to cut. Rauner knows this. I don’t know that this has been studied well in previous administrations.
This sort of analysis is why people thought he was a better bet to straighten things out than his patronage driven predecessors. It’ll be interesting to see how far he’ll go in sensible business practices instead of the political drivers that have caused so many service and financail problems in Illinois.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:47 pm
Exactly who coined the highly prejudicial word “demands?”
I doubt very much that AFSCME used it in any way.
AFSCME always holds meetings to formulate a list of contract revisions and enhancements including salary increase goals prior to negotiations.
Comment by Rory Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:50 pm
@RNUG
=“I held the position for almost 20 years and I don’t qualify for it under this description!”=
My guess is that many, if not most, state and municipal workers in Illinois could say the same thing. That explains a lot……
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:51 pm
RNUG - how would that be a diminished benefit for current retirees (which is the crux of the lawsuit)? If the lawsuits were aimed at keeping benefits level for retirees the same - free healthcare and no reduction in actual pay - how would that apply to current employees? Rauner could make the argument that even a 1% increase would help keep the system sustainable in the near future.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:51 pm
Agree with RNUG….COLA and step increases do not apply to MC. They would love to have this benefit.
They have gone years with no raises and the COLA is only applied to the managers salary range rather than actually going into their pocket. There are heads of large offices in the state earning $20,000 to $30,000 less than the managers who are in the union. I had gone through this in the 80s and the 90s and when I had a chance to run in 02, I ran thinking my salary would be frozen again for another 2 years (and in reality it would have been frozen for 10 years).
It is time to ensure salary parity for management.
Comment by illinifan Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:54 pm
Wondering right now how those AFSCME members who pulled the stunt on Gov’s Day a couple of years ago feel right now? You guys are going to get everything you deserve.
Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:55 pm
Rich,Merrit Comp workers do not even get step increases!!!
Comment by merrit comp worker Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:58 pm
@anonymous
=And, those paltry increases are on top of base pay which lags significantly behind the private sector, especially for professional employees.=
I read the link, Anon, it was a typical “apples to oranges” comparison by a state employee biased organization. They just looked at wages, not COMPENSATION. For example, if you just compare pay, public school staff are paid substnatially more than private sector teachers in Illinois, but when you include the 9.2% pension benefit comp from the school and another 9% from the state, you’re talking about far higher compensation for the publics.
Private sector employees get the SSC employer match of 6.2% plus maybe a 3% match to a 401K. An extra 9% in pension contributions tips most private-public scales.
There’s also the civil service or patronage job protection factor that’s usually ignored in comparisons.
We won’t even get into the standard of performance differences between public and private clerical, supervisory and management compensation, but let’s just say you can get away with a lot lower performance in public vs private work.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:02 pm
Somehow the term “Demands” Meeting doesn’t sound like the terminology that I would use with Bruce Rauner. Perhaps “Requests” Meeting would prove to be the wiser terminology to use with The Bruce.
Then the ASCME could follow up that meeting with a “Pretty Please?” Meeting later on down the road.
Del Clinkton @ 10AM—Actually, the citizens of Illinois “don’t” pay Bruce Rauner’s salary. Bruce is serving as Governor after refusing to take a salary if I am not mistaken.
Many of us that voted for Bruce Rauner are waiting to see if he is one of those guys who blow and snort but then quickly back down after being confronted by the windmill that they said they were going to do battle with. Here is hoping that Bruce is the next Reagan. Ronald Reagan set the tone for the rest of his administration (and sent the Iranians a clear & concise message) when he handled the nation’s traffic controller strike after he was elected. He fired them (just like he said he was going to do)and hired all new people. The Iranians who took the American hostages quickly realized that Reagan was not a talker but was instead a doer. He didn’t bluff. When he told someone something, you could take it to the bank that he was indeed going to do it. And—Reagan was quickly viewed by the malevolent forces in the world as the reincarnation of a no-nonsense Marshall Matt Dillon and Dirty Harry all rolled into one. Things suddenly got taken care of and accomplished. Gridlock, intimidation, and extortion quickly and quietly faded away.
Comment by Rowdy Yates Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:08 pm
@Bob:
Do you have any respect for public sector workers? I think it’s a fair question.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:09 pm
Comparing State employee salaries to private sector salaries would make sense if the work was the same. Is it?
State employees, including professionals, are compensated for OT. Most private sector professionals are not.
State employees work a 37.5 hour work week. Most private sector employees work 40 hours.
State employees, including professionals, have a high level of protection from firing. Many private sector employees don’t.
The list goes on.
A fairer comparison is between nontechnical State employees and similar private sector jobs.
Comment by Sir Reel Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:09 pm
- Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:47 pm:
re hire back for 2002 ERI retirees … they are very restricted. If hired back on the payroll, they have to come back for 75 days a year or less and at the same hourly equivalent as the last year they worked with no benefits of any kind … which is a pretty good deal for the State.
re not qualifying under the new job description - FWIW (and Rich can confirm) I was a well known professional in my field, I’ve consulted, authored a number of books, and had my own blog for a while at one of the trade organizations … so it was a joke that I didn’t have the paper credentials the new job description required.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:09 pm
@Arizona Bob
“My guess is that many, if not most, state and municipal workers in Illinois could say the same thing. That explains a lot…… ”
Stay classy there, Bob…
Comment by B4L Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:11 pm
- Team Sleep - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 12:51 pm:
In past cases, the ISC has held any change for employees that adversely affects the retirement formula components (years, age) or the final average compensation calculation to be invalid if it would reduce the benefit earned below the current / existing method. This has been pretty consistently applied at both the state and municipal level on changes amounting to as little as $25 per month.
I’m extrapolating that any change to the cost side of “buying” the benefit (employee contributions) would also be considered a diminishment.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:18 pm
=== when (Reagan) he handled the nation’s traffic controller strike after he was elected. He fired them===
If Rauner fires all the union workers, shuts down the stste, and tries to “change” illinois with a lockout…it will backfire.
You may want to do a rethink on the Air Traffic Controllers.
Use the “search” key. Your thoughts in it seem to run counter to what ASCME, and the new governor, both need.
The rest of what you think was good and helpful was embarrassingly unhelpful.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:19 pm
In the past they must have negotiated increased pension contributions because I know mine increased. Because they were tied to an equal raise, I kept the same salary. Maybe it was around 2002?
As for the jokes about shirts and buttons, remember afscme members are advised not to even use the word strike before the contract expires, because of the no strike provision. There isn’t much that can be publicly talked about. I take the comments to mean that afscme will be informing members early on (behind the scenes) to be prepared for a strike. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but I think most members know it is a real possibility.
I wonder if Rauner will try to pass legislation to make Illinois a right to work state. I’m curious where Madigan stands on that idea, as his support can probably make it happen. If so, afscme will lose a lot of leverage. Most people I know dislike unions (except those in a union).
Having been merit comp in the past and going without raises for years, I’d never advise working for the state again without being in a union. I accepted and kept my job (over private sector) in a big part because of the pension. I just hope the Constitution continues to mean something.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:27 pm
“If Rauner fires all the union workers, shuts down the stste, and tries to “change” illinois with a lockout…it will backfire.”
I’d imagine most state contracts have boilerplate language both prohibiting either a walkout or a strike. The contracts I worked on always had them.
Comment by Mouthy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:28 pm
Demoralized -
I have worked in this business for over a decade. That is a fair question to ask Bob. However, in my experiences, I also have spoken to a lot of public sector employees (at both the federal and state levels) who seem to have no clue what most private sector workers pay for health insurance and have no clue that most private sector workers do not have a guarantee pension and/or “The Rule of 85″.
My wife works for IDOT. A few years ago there was a contingent of IDOT office workers who complained loudly after CMS increased the employee’s share of health insurance premiums. IDOT summarily released the info to the employees. Many quickly discovered that they were on the hook for a mere 5% of the annual insurance premiums. Some were only paying $125 a month for plans that cost $24,000 a year. From my federal days I can attest that the plans which cost $125 for a family of 4 have deductibles nearing $5,000 and co-pays that are a bit more than $20 for standard office visits.
My dad’s pension through a private employer was arbitrarily cut a few years after he retired. His health insurance premiums also doubled. What was his recourse?!
I have a very close friend who works for a trade association in Springfield. His health insurance premiums per year are $10,000 and his deductible is about half of that.
One of the groomsmen in my wedding works for a large employer who matches management 401(k) plans only up to 3%. There is no pension for non-union workers at the company, and the pension benefits for the unionized workers have been scaled back while the contributions have been increased.
These may only be three examples, but they are examples that include real-life scenarios for three people who are near-and-dear to me.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:31 pm
Sir Reel…
“State employees, including professionals, are compensated for OT. Most private sector professionals are not.
State employees work a 37.5 hour work week. Most private sector employees work 40 hours.”
MC staff do not get overtime….they also usually put in more than 37.5 hours. I remember being on vacation and have to conference call with labor relations, security and other areas of the state on issues going on at my office. I came in on weekends, started early and left late with zero compensation, just like most exempt persons in the private sector. Hourly in the private get OT just like the union members….so all this fairly comparable. Some private sector have 35 hour work weeks so we are not comparing apples to apples…all of these work conditions vary based on who the private sector employer is.
My family thought I was crazy earning what I did with a staff of 125 state office and they had no management responsibilities in the private sector and earned double of what I was earning. As I told them I was staying for the pension.
I think Rauner is going to attempt a Scott Walker move and maybe try to eliminate Collective Bargaining (my guess that is a no go with the legislature). I see his opening offer being a pay cut, higher contribution to pension, less in health care and no raises
Comment by illinifan Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:31 pm
- Mouthy -,
Note; I am only…only going off the Rauner quote that he would shut down the state of he had to…
All good.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:34 pm
MC employees are NOT compensated for overtime. 80 hour weeks have not been uncommon. There is no “comp time”. Arrival in Chicago at 11pm or later - after a 14 hour day would be met with “what kind of time do you want to use?” My goal is to make as much as the tech I hired 25 years ago (he make $25,000 more)
I don’t wish to paint everything and everyone this way - however - I wish that folks would have some regard for those of us who do what we do - because - WE CARE
Comment by Yatzi Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:36 pm
“State employees, including professionals, are compensated for OT. Most private sector professionals are not.
State employees work a 37.5 hour work week. Most private sector employees work 40 hours.”
(Source?) I worked in private industry, with a 37.5 hour week and no conpensation for overtime. True that’s one data point, but the companies were quite typical.
Reagan didn’t just outright fire PATCO workers because they couldn’t come to an agreement, he fired them because they were on strike illegally. I’m no lawyer, but I’d wager that for most AFSCME employees, once the contract expires, striking is not illegal. And if it’s illegal to strike because of the contract, then it’s just as illegal for Rauner to call a lockout.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:51 pm
As Barack Obama tartly pointed out to Republicans after he won in 2008, ” Elections have consequences.” Or as Bill Maher similarly noted to the losing side in a more Earthy fashion after that same election, “A sh@t sandwich isn’t supposed to taste good.” AFSCME, SEIU, Teamsters, and Local 150 went all in for Quinn. They lost. Rauner was not elected to kowtow to the unions. They lost the vast power they held under two Democratic administrations. They’d better adjust to the new reality.
Comment by Bored Chairman Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 1:52 pm
I hope I’m wrong, but the more I read this discussion, the less I believe it’s probable that Rauner and AFSCME will reach the kind of fair deal that leaves both equally unhappy without first having a great deal of unnecessarily destructive conflict.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 2:04 pm
We do not work a 37.5 hour week - that is what we are paid for. Regular hours are 8:30 am to 5pm - that is 8.5 hours - we are “supposed” to have an hour for lunch - most don’t.
Comment by Yatzi Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 2:06 pm
Dear Mr. Eliot,
You obviously think you are the smartest guy in the room.
If you are lucky I will not find out who you are.
If I do, you will wish you weren’t in the room.
Comment by anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 2:33 pm
=I’m no lawyer, but I’d wager that for most AFSCME employees, once the contract expires, striking is not illegal=
Is far as I know, this is correct. Back in 2012, state employees were still working after the contract had expired at the end of June. After several months of no new contract, there was serious discussions of a strike, which would have been legal because there was no contract. Apparently, it was within a few days of a strike before the new contract terms were settled.
As far as Rauner pulling a Reagan and firing striking employees, there are many technical jobs within the state, some that require up to 2 years of training, that would have to be filled. With understaffing and huge backlogs already occurring in many state agencies, this could be disastrous!
Comment by Rusty618 Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 2:36 pm
I still dont get where people think that Scott up north is some kind of hero. He took on the teachers union. Thats it.
Police, Firefighters, and Prison Workers (Bolgona Sandwich Slappers) unions can still bargain for all they want. Scott is testicularly challenged!
Comment by Del Clinkton Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 2:48 pm
After all these decades the “Reagan put them air traffic controllers in their place” myth still has legs.
It was a wild cat strike which was a violation of their contract. They fired themselves. Anybody could have went to court and had them terminated.
Comment by redleg Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:14 pm
===Actually, the citizens of Illinois “don’t” pay Bruce Rauner’s salary. Bruce is serving as Governor after refusing to take a salary if I am not mistaken.===
I’ve never understood the acclaim that wealthy individuals receive when they assume public office and make a big deal out of “working for nothing” or $1. Sure, they are beholden to no one — but neither are they accountable to the Citizens either. Too much power and pseudo noblesse oblige.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:17 pm
@Arizona Bob — For the last 12 years we have been living under Blago and Quinnn, believe me when I say that we have all “shared the pain”. You need to realize that most of the senior management have not gotten raises from 4 to 12 years.
Basically - if you add all of AFSCME raises for that period, they are right at the COLA.
Finally, the states financial problems are not because of State employees- we account for a little more than 5% of the total project.
The states financial problems are due to the State Legislators who have not lived up to their fiduciary responsibilities.
Comment by Rufus Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:20 pm
At 3:17, I shouldn’t have said, “Sure, they are beholden to no one…” Actually, they *are* still beholden to their powerful masters, wealthy buddies, and “friends” who wink and nod and encourage a thing here, oh!, and over there too….
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:24 pm
In the near future we will hear Strike! More time’s than at a White Sox Game.
These government unions will show Rauner who is the boss. The No strike clause will be tested.
Comment by Mokenavince Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:29 pm
I know MC employees are not compensated for OT. I was one of them and I worked a lot of uncompensated OT.
I know MC employees haven’t gotten raises in years. In fact they (and I) were forced to take unpaid furloughs.
However this post is about AFSCME not MC employees.
Comment by Sir Reel Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:38 pm
Rufus @ 3:20 — Keep in mind Arizona Bob’s point of view that all (yes, ALL) strikes are “for not other reason than union greed.” Consider the source.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:41 pm
Also consider that I can’t type. “for *no* other reason than…”
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:53 pm
@RNUG
I’m not talking about “rehires” who are already on pension. What I’m talking about is a public retiree working as a “consultant” dong similar work that to that which they did before.
Afew cases for which I have personal knowledge:
1) A CPS curriculum employee at Clark was strongly encouraged to retire. She was white, and her boss, well ,wasn’t. The boss hired a person of her own race, and she couldn’t come close to doing the job. Instead of firing the incompetent, she hired the “retired” employee to do the same job the replacement couldn’t. But now she was paid $100/hr for time in ADDITION to her full pension.
2) A maintenanc manager at CPS retired on Friday, and he came back, doing the same job he’d been doing before on Monday. The main differnce was that he was costing CPS about $65 an hour on Friday, but cost them $180/hr on Monday in ADDITION to his pension expense.
3) A K-5 suburban elementary school Principal making $104K was “promoted” to Manager of Mainetnance and Captital projects for $180K per year just before the start of a $22 million renovation project, despite having virtually no qualifications, professional licensure of experience to do the job. The district hired a construction management firm to do the work. After he retired, he was building a multi million dollar mansion in South Carolina, but the district still bright him in as a $100/hr “project engineer” for completing the project, despite the fact that he’d been replaced. Oh, they also paid his air fare back and forth from SC, rented him a car, and didn’t even require he sign in to ensure he was working the hours he was billing the district. he kept working this scam until he had his house in Illinois sold.
I know these are anecdotes, but there are just too many times I’ve seen this not to believe its pretty widespread.
Good luck in your retirement, RNUG. Your posts are always informative.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:54 pm
@Dem
@Bob:
=Do you have any respect for public sector workers? I think it’s a fair question.=
ABSOLUTELY! I’ve got great respect for MOST police and firefighters, most teachers who teach for the love if it rather than for the big bucks and bene’s, and, believe it or not, just about all the Springfield state employees with whom I’ve had contact. I’ve worked recently with folks in the IEPA and state fire marshall’s office, and the way they helped out and provided helpful information above and beyond what they needed to do was exemplary. I actually think many Springfield public servants aren’t paid what they’re worth.
My biggest problems are with Illinois public educators, administrators and bureaucrats, municipal, and township clerical workers, SOS employees and just about everybody working for the county.
The Springfield folks are generally the “professionals” and the other folks have more of an arrogant entitlement culture that’s destructive, counterproductive, and needs to be fixed.
Unfortunately, those latter groups are the ones causing most of the problems in the state, and have the most militant, obnoxious union leadership. They also have the most political clout, which leads to their too often arrogance.
Comment by Arizona Bob Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:09 pm
- Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 3:54 pm:
I’d say all three of those cases are a management problem with the people doing the hire back. And I’d also note that two of the three are CPS … which is a whole other animal.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:11 pm
@Bob:
What you talk about happened a lot after the ERI under George Ryan (because of the large amount of folks that left and the brain drain that resulted; they needed to stick around until somebody else could be trained to do their jobs). However, today I would say (at least from my personal experience) it doesn’t happen all that often, at least in state government. It still happens, but not to the level that I think you think it does. At least not in state government.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:12 pm
@Bob
Thanks for the response. I appreciate it.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:14 pm
Arizona Bob
“It would be interesting to look at metrics for productivity of Illinois state government organizations to those in other states.”
That comparison would cost more to prepare than Adam Andrzejewski’s “forensic audits” … . Two examples. In Illinois state agencies prepare their payrolls (taxes, deductions, etc.) and submit it to the Comptroller for, basically, the printing of the paychecks. In California, their Controller runs the payrolls for each state agency after the agency submits the number of hours worked - the Controller has all the deduction and tax forms. By that standard, IOC is more “efficient” than the California Controller.
In some states, state public aid programs are administered by the counties, making their version of the Illinois Department of Human Services more efficient. And it goes on and on and on. Each state is different. We don’t have enough time for anything more than drive-by comparisons of dubious value.
Comment by Anyone Remember Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:20 pm
Just to clarify, once a contract expires the terms of the expired contract are continued until a new contract is signed. However, it either party of an expired contract gives the other party 30 days, (I think it’s 30) notice that they will no longer honor the terms of the expired contract then on day 31 it’s no holds bared. Meaning lockouts, strikes, wage cuts, etc. are all on the table. So it may be awhile before Rauner gets an opportunity for union Armageddon but if he wants to get there, he can..
Comment by Mouthy Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 4:41 pm
looks like arbitrators will be in high demand
Comment by foster brooks Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 5:23 pm
no lock out no strike in the highway maintainers world
Comment by foster brooks Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 5:24 pm
@ 1:02 pm: “”" For example, if you just compare pay, public school staff are paid substnatially more than private sector teachers in Illinois, but when you include the 9.2% pension benefit comp from the school and another 9% from the state, you’re talking about far higher compensation for the publics.
Private sector employees get the SSC employer match of 6.2% plus maybe a 3% match to a 401K. An extra 9% in pension contributions tips most private-public scales.”"”
……………………………..
Reality on contributions from the TRS website:
Active teachers contribute 9.4 percent of their paycheck to help fund TRS and school districts contribute 0.58 percent of every teacher’s salary to the System. Last year, all told, teachers contributed $917 million to TRS and school districts contributed $155 million.
Comment by Enviro Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 5:54 pm
And in conclusion. Both Gov Elect Rauner and AFSCME leadership are not fools. You want to send panic throughout Illinois Democratic Party circles, just announce a non aggression pact between Rauner and AFSCME. Who do you think does the preponderance of grunt work statewide? This is now Rauner’s Republican Party. If AFSCME sits out the next gubernatorial in 2018, your are all invited to Gov Rauner’s second inaugural ball.
Comment by John Birch Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 8:51 pm
this “anonymous” person must be a newbie to the bargaining committee because they don’t have a clue what their talking about. OR it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a Management plant sabotaging the negotiations before it even starts. It’s childish and misleading.
Comment by Jan Bradley- retired state worker Wednesday, Dec 3, 14 @ 10:01 pm
I find it pretty funny that the one who didn’t want to be named, makes a big deal about a “demands” meeting–AFSCME, as most unions, always do that at the beginning of a new contract negotiation–they send out a questionaire to the presidents/executive board of the local to find out what the members think is important for the new contract…obviously this guy is very new and hasn’t been very involved in union business. Same with the so called censoring–you always gotta keep a hold on both extremes, anyway if you don’t want to look like the teaparty crew.
Comment by UnionThugGramma Friday, Dec 5, 14 @ 4:16 pm