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* From the twitters…
"A little regressive but it's something we're open to if Rauner wants to propose it" Cullerton-service tax @wlsam890 pic.twitter.com/Fn0ivvLbWc
— Bill Cameron (@billjcameron) March 13, 2015
* The Question: Should the Democrats wait for Gov. Rauner to propose a revenue increase, or should they do it themselves, or should they work with him behind the scenes and make a joint announcement, or should they forget about new revenues entirely?
Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:43 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Unintended consequences
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I think if they work it out together it would have a much better chance of passing both chambers and having the governor sign off on it. Time to quit the blame game and get something done.
Comment by East Central Illinois Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:45 pm
Rauner said no taxes are needed.
If he wants them, he can have Ron Sandack introduce it.
If you don’t have those two carry it, they will continue to blame Democrats.
Comment by Gooner Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:51 pm
They should work it out together instead of using the issue as a political tactic. We need some grown up governing to fix our problems, not partisan bickering.
Comment by Pelonski Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:51 pm
He habitually campaigned on having a plan. He specifically asked that no action be taken on the income tax (or anything else) during the lame duck. Its past time to produce the plan, and then the GA take an up / down vote on his plan. After that takes place, then try and work it out jointly if the vote is down.
Comment by Kippax Blue Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:52 pm
In a perfect world, it wouldn’t much matter; either one could announce first, they’ll tweak it together, and pass it or not as the case may be. But it feels like trust has already broken down here, and I don’t really know the ramifications of that. Would Rauner resent the GA moving without him (as he clearly would have on extending the 5% tax)? Would his initial proposal, even if only a negotiating ploy, be so slanted as to piss of the GA further? I just can’t say.
All else being equal, I’m voting for the GA, ’cause whoever introduces first generally has a bit more control, and I trust their instincts more than the Governor’s right now.
Comment by Arsenal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:52 pm
Voted Democrats should go first, since Rauner went first on cuts, but working out both the cuts and revenue jointly would be best.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:52 pm
Yikes, this is a hard question.
If you game out each of the four, it boils down to maximizing/minimizing blame as the end game.
Voted, “work it out jointly…”
That, however may hammer on the ILGOP GA at a very high degree, but of the 4, it’s probably the least damaging to Rauner in the short-term, and with the $20 million, Rauner will deliver all the non “Owl Sandacks” with that threat hanging over their heads.
Rauner won’t propose. Why? He told me so.
Democrats going first? The political Caucus dynamic wouldn’t allow that, unless, you guessed it, Rauner works with them and agrees not to veto.
No new taxes? Then plan on being in Springfield until September(?). Even Leader Durkin concedes revenue should be “considered”
So, by absolute political default;
“Work it out jointly…”
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:53 pm
In order to work together, everyone must compromise. Luckily for us, Rauner has shown himself to be an expert at working through things cooperatively to come to a consensus decision. /s
Rauner will have to propose. He won`t allow it to go any other way.
Comment by PolPal56 Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:53 pm
Rauner won. He’s said for two years that he had a plan that would be different than what you’d get from old-timers in the GA.
As the great Judge Elihu Smails said:
“Welllll… We’re waitinggggggg…”
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:56 pm
Working it out jointly would be ideal but I see little chance of that happening. I suspect that the Democrats will try to move the ball on this if for no other reason than to create a wedge between their proposals and Rauner’s.
Comment by pundent Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:57 pm
Wordslinger–As the great Judge Elihu Smails also said: You’ll get nothing and like it.
Comment by Kippax Blue Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:58 pm
I don’t think Rauner would be willing to go first. If they work it out together, they can at least share some of the blame with the other. Rauner gets some cover and the Dems get credit for warding off some of the program cuts that would result from no new revenues. Win-win.
Comment by anonymous plus one Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:58 pm
Rauner proposed a balanced budget with current revenue.
The Dems don’t like a lot of the cuts and aren’t sure about his pension reform. If they want to reverse any of that, it’s they that need to act.
I’m sure if they came to Rauner and offered some specific proposals to replace their least favorite cuts with an equal dollar amount in new revenue, he’d agree to at least some of it and jointly announce the bargain.
But the onus is on them to act. He did his job.
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:59 pm
As the Gov says non are needed and has $20 million to vilify why go alone on this one. Sadly I had vote no new taxes.
Comment by Annon3 Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 1:59 pm
===Rauner proposed a balanced budget with current revenue.===
LOL.
LOLOL.
Time to move to the real world, dude.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:01 pm
===Rauner proposed a balanced budget with current revenue.===
Nope. At the absolute minimum, if you believe the fairy tale, it’s still $1.9 Billion short on revenue.
You’re welcome.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:01 pm
– Rauner proposed a balanced budget with current revenue.–
No, he didn’t. Not even close. His first chance to do his job was a failure. — his first once, I hear.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:06 pm
Well, if the Governor doesn’t want to play ball with the GA, then the Senate President and the Speaker should develop and pass a budget that just absolutely decimates Rauner-voting strongholds.
Then maybe a joint announcement will be in order….
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:07 pm
Rauner ran on his “I have a plan!” and by crying “Quinn’s gonna raise your taxes! (by keeping the 5% rate)”
To paraphrase Harry Truman, “The buck starts here!”
Comment by Jocko Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:07 pm
It has to be a joint effort if it has any chance of passing. There’s no point in Cullerton pushing something forward without an agreement, I’m sure he learned that lesson on the pension bill, and that situation was nowhere near as contentious.
Comment by AC Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:07 pm
I didn’t vote because it doesn’t matter. Whatever’s Rauner’s ego will allow is what will happen. The IPI editorial shows he is much more bothered by his reputation than he puts a public face on.
Comment by Liberty Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:08 pm
Dems should go first…
1. Pour money into 3-5 targeted poor(er) rural GOP House districts in support of a graduated income tax at the exact same rates as Governor Walker’s Wisconsin brackets.
AD:”This fair tax proposal would result in fairer taxes for the working poor and middle class of the District, and keep the prisons open. But Representative X says he is going to protect the low taxes of billionaires in Winnetka and Chicago. Who’s side is he on?”
2. Pass it in the house with 2-3 GOP votes needed.
3. Already cleared the Senate last session, will again
4. Put it on the Governor’s desk, make the billionaire veto it. If he does, Lisa (or Dem Nominee) run like crazy on it in 2018. If he doesn’t Moody’s upgrades us.
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:09 pm
Rich, I think you need to re-read GOGFA’s statement.
They said 1.9 billion less in revenue.
That’s only a 90 million dollar difference from the revenue drop Rauner’s budget predicts.
At most that would mean its a $90mil hole. And that’s only if you assume they’re the ones with the better actuaries.
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:11 pm
Intended to type COGFA ^
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:13 pm
- Jimmy CrackCorn -,
A majority party legislature doesn’t, politically, pass something the Executive of the opposite party will veto, especially if you know you can’t override.
So, that probably won’t work.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:14 pm
“Rauner proposed a balanced budget with current revenue”
You must not come here too often. LOL
Does anyone else feel like we’re watching a political game of chicken?
Comment by Newbie Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:15 pm
- Political Animal -,
Are you saying Rauner’s budget is only $90 million short on revenue?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:15 pm
Political Animal
The Governor’s budget wasn’t balanced. He assumed $2.2 billion savings from his pension reform proposal. Try. Again.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:17 pm
Voted “jointly” — Time for the Governor to show his leadership. Talk is cheap. Walk the talk.
Comment by Diogenes in DuPage Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:17 pm
GovCashBar
I want them to work out a deal. Sadly, this is still Illinois. So…
It’s Bruce’s rope let him swing from it. If the GA wants to try and take it away from him that’s fine too.
Everything he’s done so far has been a slimey “one minute” ceo negotiation tactic and it’s laughable. It could work only because eventually somebody will need to be re-elected.
Pat gave us the snake. Bruce gives us the snake oil.
Comment by Pink E. Kent Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:17 pm
PA,
They were close on the projected revenue for the year, not the feasibility of the cuts in the budget which lead to the big hole in the budget.
Comment by Pelonski Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:18 pm
Animal, you’re confused. Sorry.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:18 pm
I said the Governor should propose something if, indeed, he really wants a service tax.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:18 pm
#3
It would be nice - for a change - to see the Governor and the Four Tops get along as well or better than the 2-3 year old kids in my Sunday School class.
Comment by Team Sleep Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:23 pm
Sometime well after the fourth of July, when it’s hot and sticky in both chambers, and members are nodding off at their desks, white smoke will pour forth from the Speaker’s office, and four exhausted, beaten-down Legislative Leaders will emerge, carrying the body of a near life-less Governor to the well of the House.
At that point, a budget that includes significant new revenues and significant (but not draconian) cuts in nearly all areas, will be put forward and pass with exactly 71 votes in the House and 36 votes in the Senate, with the “aye” votes of a majority of House and Senate GOP members.
Until then, we’ll be treated to a daily live-feed of contrived drama and intrigue. Just remember to act surprised when it happens.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:25 pm
OW,
Not at all. I’m saying that the state will have between $1.9bil (COGFA estimate) and $1.81bil (Rauner estimate) less in revenues than it did last year.
That would mean Rauner’s budget, if passed as is including pension reform, would be perfectly balanced or $90mil in the red depending on who you believe.
That still makes Rauner’s estimates much closer to COGFA than has been common for past governors.
COGFA did not say there’s a 1.9 billion dollar hole in his budget.
So again, his job is done. If the Dems can’t stomach the cuts, they need to propose revenue to offset them. So figure out what the sales tax and corporate loop hole reform wi bring in, then propose reversing that same dollar amount in the cuts they find most painful.
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:26 pm
- Political Animal -,
You may need a nap. You are not learning.
The savings aren’t real.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:28 pm
There is such a lack of cooperation and/or courage in Springfield. Therefore I suggest that the people should go first by calling and writing to our state senators and representatives asking them to raise the state income tax.
Comment by Enviro Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:29 pm
Animal, it’s not revenue, it’s the spending side. Sheesh.
Rauner wants to spend $2.2 billion less on pensions, even though that’s impossible. That’s why the budget is phony, among other things.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:30 pm
@Political Animal:
Are you part of Rauner’s team?
Comment by Cheswick Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:32 pm
I voted wait on BJR, otherwise the Ds are blamed for the tax. He consistently said he had a plan and it is time.
Comment by WhyNot? Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:32 pm
If Rauner - and the Dems - are serious about fixing things, they should work it out and then make the announcement together. If Rauner continues to say no new taxes, he’s playing politics. If the Dems wait for someone to “go first” so they can point fingers, they’re playing politics. A wise old hand here in the Deep South once observed, “too many politicians, not enough statesmen.” Are we gonna get past that or not?
Comment by Deep South Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:33 pm
It’s time for Bruce Rauner to step up and dazzle Illinois with his highly touted, private sector leadership skills.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:34 pm
Voted for joint agreement, but don’t really think that is what will happen-doubt that Rauner can come up with a proposal that will pass the house. Jimmycrackcorn probably has the best idea for the Democrats- would almost certainly pass house & senate-pressure would be on Rauner to sign it; if he didn’t then, democrats could safely stand back and say “we tried, but now its up to you, Bruce…”
Comment by downstate commissioner Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:35 pm
Work it out and then raise taxes. That’s where it’s heading anyway..
Comment by Mouthy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:35 pm
Juice is correct. My mistake.
That means COGFA is predicting Rauner’s budget to be $90mil more in the black than he says it is.
Rich,
I fully agree that the pension savings are unlikely. If that’s the part the Dems want reversed, they need 2.2bil in revenue or 2.2bil in additional cuts.
Or they could just pass his reform since the current pension reform will almost certainly be struck down.
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:38 pm
I voted for what I believe the good govt. solution would be and that is to work together. I don’t believe that the politics will allow this to be the result. Sigh!
Comment by Norseman Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:39 pm
- Team Sleep -
Good luck on the “Governor and the Four Tops”
Maybe we should try Cookies and Koolaid - works on the Sunday School kids!
Comment by WhoKnew Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:41 pm
PA, is this a gag? You must be aware you’re not making sense.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:42 pm
Which part doesn’t make sense? The part where Rich reported that the COGFA said Rauner was $1.9bil short when they really said he’s $90mil over? Go read it yourself.
Or my my wholly subjective opinion that the onus is on the Dems to propose more revenue, either publicly or to Rauner in private?
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:47 pm
==Or they could just pass his reform==
And include the projected savings in the budget? At least the GA had the common sense to not do that when they passed SB1. Why in the world would you do such a moronic thing and assume savings for a proposal that would most certainly go to court and be prevented from being implemented by a judge if it were to pass.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:49 pm
==Which part doesn’t make sense? ==
That would be the part where you said the Governor’s budget was balanced. It ain’t.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:50 pm
Rauner said all along he would be open to taxing services. Cullerton said whatever revenue increases would have to be bipartisan. They should announce together and get it done
Comment by Iron Duke Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:52 pm
Democrats first….let Rauner tour IL and let the others get on with the work of government. Rauner does not seem up to the task….
Comment by jazzy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 2:57 pm
Who the hell wants to pay more tax? You people dig as deep in your own pocket as you want, keep your fingers away from mine.
Comment by Neglected stepchild Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:09 pm
I voted for Rauner to force him to prove just how disingenuous his campaign was.
Comment by orzo Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:09 pm
There’s only one of these that would assure it would work. That’s what I voted for.
Comment by A guy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:29 pm
Just heard the Gov speak to a room full of mayors, and a few GA members. He spelled it out pretty clear in my eyes - he said he will not talk about new revenues unless there are some reforms.
He said it - give me some reforms (that he has suggested) and I will talk about new revenues. Plain as day. The GA just has to have the guts to do it. He also hinted that he would help those who would make the tough votes - can anyone say $20MM?
It’s doable. We just need the doers to start doing.
Comment by allknowingmasterofracoondom Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:33 pm
I concede that the pension argument is a good one. Rauner probably thinks that since his reform only affects future pensions, it sufficiently avoids the “diminished or impaired” problem. But he really needs to wait for that idea to be tested.
But if the Dems put their foot down on that one I think Rauner would be as likely to propose $2.2bil more in cuts as he would $2.2bil in new revenue. His sales tax plan would only bring in $600mil more.
Who knows how much we could get from closing corporate loop holes (the other idea he’s showed some openness to.)
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:39 pm
Also, I’m hoping that WHEN the court strikes down the current pension reform (pretty sure that’s a done deal) and blows away this silly “police powers” argument, that they will at least give some guidance on what reforms would be permissible.
A narrow decision could strike it down on the basis that it diminishes and repairs benefits for current retirees but make clear that unearned future benefits are open to reduction because contracts can change.
Language like that would make it easier to count on Rauner’s pension savings.
Comment by Political Animal Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:43 pm
Voted 3 as I think it is the most plausible. However, I think Rauner ’should’ have done this already.
Comment by anonlurker Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:46 pm
Work it out together. “Mr. Madigan, Mr. Cullerton - lets say hypothetically that I agree to your revenue increase plans. I don’t want to do that, but I will. Now, you don’t want to cut, but I do. So, what exactly are you willing to cut, regardless of how your caucuses may feel about their reelection chances if they agree to it? Do you, or do you not put the financial problems facing the state before reelection and holding onto power, or not?”
Yep, that’s what I thought. See ya this summer!!
Comment by Kodachrome Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:49 pm
=== give some guidance on what reforms would be permissible ===
What guidance they will provide is that the Governor and Legislators need to stop trying to fix this on the backs of current employees and retirees. Unfortunately, they will still attack them.
The Governor’s “reform” is fictitious. The most obvious that everyone points out is that it will not result in savings in year 1. For two, it still impairs benefits.
Comment by Norseman Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:54 pm
PA,
The court has previously ruled that future benefits are also protected. Some believe that isn’t an absolute protection, but I don’t think many give Rauner’s proposal much hope of being deemed constitutional by the courts.
Comment by Pelonski Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:55 pm
If Cullerton does not like regressive taxes then why didnt he lead the charge the last several years for a graduated tax ammendment we could of voted on?
He and Madigan have lost their opportunity to credibly bring the issue up anymore.
Comment by Very Fed Up Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:56 pm
I voted “jointly.” Democrats couldn’t pass a tax increase on their own with a supportive Governor last spring, so wouldn’t be able to make it on their own now. Revenue won’t happen without GOP support, so might as well try to work it out with them.
What will happen–now there’s a question I have no answer for. If it were the Governor Rauner we were expecting from the general election, I’d be very optimistic something could be achieved. But, it seems we got the Governor Rauner who was able to win a conservative Republican primary. That was unexpected, at least by me.
Comment by Earnest Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 3:56 pm
If Gov. Rauner & the G.A. want more revenue, they should cut the state sales tax rate from 6% to 4% or 5%. Many people, who live close to states that border Illinois, shop in the other states, to save money on sales taxes. If the Illinois sales tax rate is lower, more people will shop in Illinois, and the state will get more money.
Comment by Conservative Veteran Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 4:00 pm
- Political Animal -
You do indeed need a nap.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 4:01 pm
Rauner goes first. He owns this.
He has no reservoir of trust to draw on.
He wants unknown and unlikely “reforms” before entertaining revenue. Ha. Who is the new guy at the table?
We will have to wait for his package of big reform bills, pick them apart, then maybe talk about revenue. I don’t see us fixing FY 15 by May 30, much less passing a legit FY 16 budget.
Comment by Langhorne Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 4:25 pm
The adult thing to do is work together behind the scenes and make a joint announcement, but we need to find an adult first.
Comment by Mama Friday, Mar 13, 15 @ 4:29 pm