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* I told subscribers about this development earlier today…
Gov. Bruce Rauner’s office has instructed state agencies to begin diverting “fair share” fees from nonunion members’ paychecks away from unions.
A memo obtained by The Associated Press directs departments to create two sets of books to do it. […]
The money now will go to agency accounts rather than unions. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union calls it a “legally questionable scheme.”
Rauner spokeswoman Catherine Kelly says the administration is “confident in the process laid out.”
The governor issued the executive order to seize the fair share fees more than two months ago.
Unless the AP or another outlet fleshes this out a bit, you’ll have to subscribe to learn more.
*** UPDATE *** The AP has now posted a longer story. From that piece…
The [Rauner legal] memo said Republican Comptroller Leslie Munger, who earlier refused to go along with Rauner’s proposed escrow account, “provided the method” for the plan, which a Munger spokesman said is not correct.
These guys are really something else.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:33 pm
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I certainly hope the unions move one or both judges for an injunction. Is there a strategic reason why they wouldn’t?
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:36 pm
I wouldn’t want to be a keeper of the two books. Lots of responsibility there. Take “responsibility” in any manner you deem me using it.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:38 pm
So money for the fair share dues is being taken out by the agency and the comptroller office?
Comment by Huh? Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:38 pm
Rauner really is going with the anti-Union agenda. If this really what he wants to go to war for, good luck getting ANYTHING done with Madigan and especially Cullerton.. Lisa and Munger don’t even have his back on this..
Comment by Rahm's Parking Meter Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:39 pm
Every venture capitalist keeps two books
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:40 pm
Doesn’t he (Rauner) realize this is going to end up costing the State more money? AFSCME is sure to file suit, and then you get to pay for all of the lawyers to defend an illegal action.
And then there is what it does to the individual employee. By reducing the amount of gross pay, the amount withheld for Federal income tax will be incorrect; along with the amount withheld for optional life insurance, pension contribution - both employee and State shares, and just make general headaches for everyone involved.
Comment by Ugly Rumours Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:41 pm
Denying people their 1st Amendment Rights! I
Thought he was elected Governor NOT appointed King.
On the other hand I wouldn’t take this to court right now. That’s what King Rauner wants. Sue for damages later!
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:42 pm
Two sets of books? Finally, Rauner’s employing his business experience.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:47 pm
Isn’t it possible that the departmental budget managers who sign-off on these deductions and send the paperwork to the Comptroller might be named individually as defendents in a potential lawsuit? Wonder if any of Rauner’s $20 million war chest will be set aside for the legal fees of all of those poor employees who are only following orders?
Doubt it. Oh well, I’m sure it’s not the first time one of Bruce’s employees wracked up big legal bills getting themselves out of a mess Bruce made. We finally have a businessman in the Governor’s Mansion!
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:48 pm
I suspect the Comptroller has to take the union dues (including fair share) out of whatever amount the agency tells her is the employee’s pay for the period, so all this is doing is taking the fair share out twice.
Comment by Anon. Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:50 pm
A governor can’t break contracts and divert wages as fees designated for one entity to another, just because he has a personal hatred towards that entity.
What is this man’s problem?
You’d think as governor of a state teetering upon a fiscal precipice he’s have other things more important than this. Give him a violin, Illinois is burning and he wants a ho-down.
Oh look! The Illinois governor has signed this questionable executive order unsupported by his own fellow office holders, so we’re going to ensure we set up our new business deal in Illinois!
Is that what he’s thinking?
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:51 pm
===who sign-off on these deductions and send the paperwork to the Comptroller might be named individually as defendents in a potential lawsuit===
Or worse.
This could easily be viewed as outright theft.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:52 pm
When is ILGOP going to have an intervention for their new guy whose run amok?
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:52 pm
Madigan, AG, already told the Governor it is illegal to withhold fair share dues from the union. Did I miss something?
Comment by Mama Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:53 pm
===When is ILGOP going to have an intervention for their new guy whose run amok?===
I’ve been asking for one for a while, it appears they just don’t care. Rauner’s paying the bills, the ILGOP is dancing.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:54 pm
Which set of books is real? How are they labeled? I’d name one of them Rod Blagojevich and the other Al Capone in honor of our state’s history.
Comment by AC Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:55 pm
See you in court Rauner!
Comment by lil' enchililada Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:57 pm
==who sign-off on these deductions and send the paperwork to the Comptroller might be named individually as defendents in a potential lawsuit==
That’s a lot of hot air as far as I’m concerned. An Executive Order is just like a law until a court or the GA says it isn’t valid. Besides, employees doing this would be protected by state from legal jeopardy if somebody tried to bring them into a lawsuit.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:57 pm
Wouldn’t this infringe on the first amendment rights of those who want to pay their fair share?
Comment by 1st A Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:59 pm
==so all this is doing is taking the fair share out twice.==
No, it’s not. The agency is simply lowering the gross pay by the amount of the fair share dues. There is no money being paid anywhere. It’s simply not being spent and is being accounted for on paper. The payroll being sent to the Comptroller will have $0 coded for fair share dues.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:59 pm
So the fair share fees are being withheld, and now pay is getting cut in an equal amount. This has to be an illegal taking under some law. It sure does look like Rauner is being advised by a batch of kids taking a break from their law firms. The only people making money out of this administration right now are lawyers.
Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 2:59 pm
=== It sure does look like Rauner is being advised by===
It ain’t the advisers. It’s the governor.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:00 pm
Okay, I may have misread the double dip. Point is still the sme.
Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:01 pm
=This could easily be viewed as outright theft.=
Bingo. If I’m fair share and you tell me the union can’t automatically take my fair share dues, you don’t divert the $$ somewhere else, you give it back to me!
Comment by Politix Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:02 pm
So the agencies are going to reduce your gross salary and keep the money. Do I see TAX issues here? If the money doesn’t get turned over to the proper parties by the end of the FY, we have lapsed funds - that certainly sounds like theft to me. Legal issues in failing to issue a payroll for less than what you’re actually earning?
Indy, I’m having big doubts about you.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:03 pm
Rich, he’s got to be bouncing this of one one in his counsel’s office. Doesn’t he? Please tell me’s not that rogue.
Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:04 pm
One one = some one
Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:04 pm
If the move is, indeed, seen as outright theft, what is the relief, what are the consequences, and are those keeping two sets of books themselves at risk?
It boils down to a court challenge, for sure, but how can Rauner, as governor, say there is a legal leg here?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:06 pm
===got to be bouncing this===
He’s ordering get it done. They do what they can. But this isn’t staff’s fault.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:07 pm
Brucie can recruit Schock to run the multiple sets of books…apparently he’s got that skill…
Comment by D.P.Gumby Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:08 pm
Not to mention that they are both skilled at handling money in “legally questionable” ways.
Comment by D.P.Gumby Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:09 pm
This order is coming from Rauner, to be executed by Staff. Rauner’s Crew is failing to explain things to have the Governor change course, forcing state Staff to fulfill the request.
My hope is that someone who can talk to Rauner can help him change these actions. I hope.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:12 pm
@OW: additionally….who is going to pay for any legal challenges and settlements? The taxpayers!
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:13 pm
This is really sketchy. If we really wanted to divert funds from deductions on pay checks, that should really be done by the Comptroller. To be completely above board those funds should actually be sent to an escrow account managed by the Treasurer. That is the Constitutional separation that enables best management and accountability.
Comment by walker Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:14 pm
If he thinks he can ignore contracts why not just give every state employee a pay cut using the same tactic?
That would really make him a darling of his fellow right wing rich buddies he’s trying to impress.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:15 pm
=He’s ordering get it done. They do what they can. But this isn’t staff’s fault. =
Oh, I agree. He’s telling people what he wants and telling them to find a way to do it/legally justify it. When you pick a batch of junior people and a criminal prosecutor for the job, you won’t have anone telling you it won’t work. He doesn’t want that, of course.
Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:15 pm
I live and work in a county where many of the GOP leadership are Union friendly based on the overall composition of the county. Rauner’s heavy-handedness in dealing with Unions is going to have a severe impact on local races involving GOP candidates. This Governor is going to have a profound impact on swing areas that isn’t going to be pretty for local GOP candidates.
Comment by Stones Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:15 pm
- Jack Stephens -,
Yep. Unlimited “piggy bank” of litigation. Ugh.
The paying of fees, that might be the least of the worries in all this.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:18 pm
===you won’t have anone telling you it won’t work===
I get the distinct impression that he doesn’t ever want to hear that particular phrase.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:18 pm
Assuming they strongly advised against this, when do the governors superstar lawyers resign in protest?
How can the leaders trust rauner to abide by a budget agreement ?
Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:20 pm
===My hope is that someone who can talk to Rauner can help him change these actions===
The only person who could’ve pulled that off died on December 10, 2014.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:20 pm
====so all this is doing is taking the fair share out twice.==
No, it’s not. The agency is simply lowering the gross pay by the amount of the fair share dues. There is no money being paid anywhere. It’s simply not being spent and is being accounted for on paper. The payroll being sent to the Comptroller will have $0 coded for fair share dues. ==
So, isn’t this theft? If you reduce my gross pay rather than just stop taking a deduction, haven’t you stolen the money from me? I can see making the employee get the money, then write a check to the union…. but isn’t this the employees’ money not the agencies?
Comment by mythoughtis Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:20 pm
“I’ll have your back. Do what I want, the way I want, and how I want it. Period.”
If that ain’t Sonny Corleone, what is.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:20 pm
===Assuming they strongly advised against this===
Why would you assume that?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:21 pm
==To be completely above board those funds should actually be sent to an escrow account==
The Comptroller won’t do that. Hence this action.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:21 pm
===The only person who could’ve pulled that off died on December 10, 2014.===
I was afraid that was the answer.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:22 pm
=== “The agency is simply lowering the gross pay by the amount of the fair share dues.” ===
Is this statement true? I would think the easiest way to do this is simply to add up all the fair share dues and then short the unions by the sum. You only have to keep a record of the employee’s amount and date. Everything else would stay the same.
Comment by MikeMacD Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:27 pm
To Rauner Cabinet Members, despite what you heard in Room 212 take note of this observation from Rich:
*** ===you won’t have anone telling you it won’t work===
I get the distinct impression that he doesn’t ever want to hear that particular phrase. ***
This is your REALITY. Not the fiction conveyed for the cameras. I feel for most of you. Especially, the ones I know and greatly respect.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:28 pm
Didn’t Rauner say at his cabinet “meeting” that he wanted to be told if he was wrong?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:29 pm
==who is going to pay for any legal challenges and settlements? The taxpayers! == Jack Stephens
This always infuriated me when covering local government.
The elected board with an attorney in the room, would do something clearly illegal. The taxing body would get sued. The board would hire some crony of the lawyer that gave them bad advice in the first place. The lawyer litigating the case would drag it out for about three years, racking-up billable hours. The board would settle the matter with a large amount of money. There would be a confidentiality agreement as part of the settlement.
In the end:
1. The board would get to violate the law.
2. The lawyers would make a bunch of money.
3. The fired employee would have her/his quality of life diminished for a few years, but get a big settlement eventually.
4. The politicians would usually get some money from–if not the lawyers involved–allied law firms.
5. And the taxpayers get the bill.
I am adamantly opposed to granting confidentiality agreements as part of settlements paid with public money with the narrowest exceptions, eg rape victims & minors. Otherwise these settlements should be open for the public to see so they can render judgment on their elected officials.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:30 pm
@demoralized: Are you certain that the departments are changing gross pay amounts on individual pay checks? And thereby avoiding having to handle and divert deductions? Or is that your speculation on how this might be handled?
If you’re reporting a fact, then that might be an even bigger legal problem.
Comment by walker Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:32 pm
I would think that anyone left who is fair share should seriously consider becoming a full pay member in their agency for only a few dollars more. Better to support the union that got you your raise and benefits than not knowing what dark hole your money is going into. No details (as if Rauner would ever provide details), but would you trust Rauner with your money?
There were only a few at my agency when I retired. One has retired, but haven’t heard any numbers about the others. Wasn’t something that was water cooler talk because generally no one knew who was and wasn’t unless you had access to personnel information or union membership lists. I found out via the union.
Comment by Finally Out (and now very glad to be) Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:32 pm
==Didn’t Rauner say at his cabinet “meeting” that he wanted to be told if he was wrong?==
Does Bruce Rauner come from a culture that values the truth? Or from a culture that emphasizes manipulating people and situations to make money and “win”?
Comment by Carl Nyberg Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:33 pm
The AFSMCE contract is quite explicit that the State cannot unilaterally change salaries. So either AFSCME agreed to this (hahaha) or (at least to my non-lawyer opinion) this constitutes breach of contract. Of course that an $2.00 buys you another portion of a cup of coffee.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:34 pm
To the Update,
Conptroller Munger, you are earning the reputation that proceeded you. Your actions are building a record of solid decisions, based on following the law.
You inherited a heck of a Crew. Do your job, listen, learn, as you have been doing, and you are going to be regarded as a heck of a Comptroller.
Well done, you and your Crew.
OW
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:35 pm
If this guy isn’t a robber baron I don’t know what is.
Comment by Jorge Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:35 pm
==Are you certain that the departments are changing gross pay amounts on individual pay checks? ==
Absolutely, positively certain. It’s already happening with payrolls that were just released.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:37 pm
If I’m a fair share employee, I’m asking, “what do you think you’re doing with my money? Hand it over.”
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:37 pm
Wow. I missed the “health-insurance payment” ramification. This has got to be illegal on so many levels. Indy DOES appear to be the driver of the King’s bulldozer.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:37 pm
Rauner blames Munger. Munger says Rauner’s not telling the truth.
Boy this war on govt unions is so important to the Governor that he seems willing to take any risk and pay any price, legal or otherwise.
Comment by walker Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:39 pm
*** ==Didn’t Rauner say at his cabinet “meeting” that he wanted to be told if he was wrong?==
Does Bruce Rauner come from a culture that values the truth? Or from a culture that emphasizes manipulating people and situations to make money and “win”? ***
As I’ve warned the Cabinet members, that meeting was fiction for the masses.
Regarding your question, if business schools teach truth and ethics it is on a similar basis to a course for football players that I took during a heavily scheduled semester. All you had to do was show up and take notes to get an “A.” There’s no learning here, just motions.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:43 pm
When the Comptroller refused to create an escrow account, I said all along that the only way to implement the EO would be to simply change paychecks so that the fair share dues were not paid out. That is exactly what they are doing. There is no other way to implement this unless the Comptroller agrees to help out. She won’t. This is what they are left with.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:44 pm
Why is anyone surprised? Rauner’s been beating this drum for a long time.
Comment by Buzzie Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:45 pm
===the easiest way to do this is simply to add up all the fair share dues and then short the unions by the sum===
That was in the original Rauner EO. But the comptroller, who makes those union payments, refused.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:45 pm
This is needless provocation.
Solves nothing.
Saves nothing.
I guess when you are a professional chop-shop equity CEO the battles are easy as long as the company is bought and paid for. Once the check clears, the work is easy. Fire. Leverage. Break contracts. Sue. Sell. = $$$$
Easy peasy.
Comment by Abe the Babe Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:46 pm
Never seen an administration so eager to not take credit for anything.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:46 pm
I realize this is not exactly their intent, but this is a clear cut labor discrimination case, in that by using the gross pay reduction approach, the Administration is now discriminating against non-Union members, which they cannot do.
They are also reducing the pension annuity of any individual who is a fair share member and planning on retiring in the next for years, since the initial annuity calculation is a function of your gross pay. But in the end, I suspect that will just get more fair share folks to sign cards.
Comment by Juice Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:46 pm
I guess the Rauner crew doesn’t understand that Munger isn’t playing ball with this nonsense.
At least somebody is taking their job seriously.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:46 pm
Sonny Corleone: Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please. All right?
Gov. Rauner: Well then, the state will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Staff. No more advice on how to follow the law, just help me win, please. All right?
Hmm.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:47 pm
Leslie Munger, that “Beep, Beep” you hear is that bus coming your way. You’ve done a lot to impress me. Problem is that your godfather may take away your silver spoon. I’m sorry, but you have my respect.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:49 pm
I’m rethinking my resistance to Munger being appointed w/out a special election. Let’s just give her the full term the way she’s playing ball now.
Rauner is right now thinking about his new ‘problem’, and how he can bury it.
Comment by How Ironic Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:52 pm
If only Rauner had a war-time consigliere, a Sicilian, he wouldn’t be in this spot.
What’s Billy Quinlan doing these days?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:54 pm
Does all of this EO withholding of fair share also apply to IEA and IFT members? If so, about 800 school districts will need to know this very soon.
Comment by East Central Illinois Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:54 pm
So, does anyone see a scenario where the Union subtly informs fair share employees they will be on their own in all labor relations issues from now on, and in turn, a good chunk of those fair share employees going full Union in the coming days/weeks/months? Or maybe it won’t even take a subtle threat of abandonment from the Union…maybe membership will rise substantially regardless. Any thoughts?
Comment by Johnny Rotten Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:54 pm
The Comptroller is still running payrolls they know breaks laws and contracts. I wouldnt praise them too highly.
Comment by Union dues Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:58 pm
Maybe some of Schock’s staffers who kept track of his spending could help with the 2 sets of books.
Comment by Sir Reel Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:59 pm
@Johnny Rotten, I think under Federal Law, the union has to represent fair share employees regardless of payment of fair share dues.
That’s what makes these laws so insidious. Rauner wants members to stop paying, but continue to enjoy the benefits of having union representation. Essentially starve the union of resources, while encouraging free loading.
Nice isn’t it?
Comment by How Ironic Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 3:59 pm
===still running payrolls they know breaks laws and contracts===
They have to process whatever the agencies give them. Unless and until the courts intervene, she can’t really do much here.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:00 pm
===If only Rauner had a war-time consigliere, a Sicilian, he wouldn’t be in this spot.===
lol, the only difference seems to be that Sonny never hid who he is.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:01 pm
They do not have to process whatever the agencies give them. They can and do reject payrolls.
Comment by Union dues Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:01 pm
==subtle threat of abandonment from the Union==
Won’t happen, the unions have a lot of experience with this in RTW states, and know it won’t work. Rauner is not constrained by legality or reality, so anything is possible from him.
Comment by AC Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:03 pm
This guy won’t listen to anyone other than himself. He reminds me of Turkmenbashi, sans the gold statue.
Comment by Jorge Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:04 pm
I think if I were a fair share employee right now, I’d be chunking out the few extra bucks to become a full member and not have my pension reduced.
Comment by Johnny Rotten Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:05 pm
I thought the unions already took legal action to prevent this. Now that the funds are actually being diverted, will the court intervene?
Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:05 pm
==who is going to pay for any legal challenges and settlements? The taxpayers! == Jack Stephens
The fact is that has been going on for a long time.
State agency management commits blatantly illegal acts as a matter of practice, knowing they have Lisa on their side providing a “free” defense.
Comment by Qui Tam Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:10 pm
Joe Hartzler, Special Counsel
Joe Hartzler has been a federal prosecutor in Springfield for the last 30 years. Joe is best known for being picked by former Attorney General Janet Reno out of thousands of federal prosecutors across the country to be the lead prosecutor in the Oklahoma City bombing prosecution of Timothy McVeigh. He has since established himself as one of the best legal minds in the Department of Justice, handling the most difficult appeals. Joe will lead efforts to clean up state government of wrongdoers, ethics violators, and serve as internal lead at collective bargaining sessions.
My point being, how can such an influential person sit there and watch this happen? I wonder if he will stay with Rauner long? Would think his Professional Ethics would guide him.
Comment by Minnow Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:10 pm
Can we take it that Rauner did not accept Chief Justice Garman’s invitation to observe on Tuesday night how the other branch of government works?
Comment by anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:11 pm
Sounds to me like someone wants to have her cake and eat it too.
Lawyers usually don’t put something like that in a memo unless they were witnesses of the collaboration.
But who knows.
Has anyone asked Kimme?
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:13 pm
=== My point being, how can such an influential person sit there and watch this happen? I wonder if he will stay with Rauner long? Would think his Professional Ethics would guide him. ===
Money does strange things to people. Especially, if it’s needed.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:13 pm
=== Can we take it that Rauner did not accept Chief Justice Garman’s invitation to observe on Tuesday night how the other branch of government works? ===
He was there. Of course, there were cameras to take in his attendance.
Didn’t learn anything obviously.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:15 pm
==State agency management commits blatantly illegal acts as a matter of practice==
Oh please. If there’s all of these illegal activities going on then you better report them.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:17 pm
To put it another way, for future individual lawsuits: Governor illegally reduced my total salary, and thereby materially harmed me now and in the future. In addition he evaded Constitutionally required financial controls, and confiscated funds due to others.
Comment by walker Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:17 pm
So why not keep the same gross and let the employees write a check to the whatever union they belong to when the matter is settled?????
Comment by scott aster Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:19 pm
The fact that Rauner has to undergoe such a myriad of machinations to get that money out of the accounts of public employee labor unions proves that this a crusade for our new Governor. Pillage the people.
Comment by Bluecollargal Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:20 pm
1% blames the 6% and takes the 93% for a ride.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:20 pm
==The Comptroller is still running payrolls they know breaks laws and contracts. ==
The Comptroller refused to place funds in an escrow account. That’s the extent of her power here. She really has no choice but to process these payrolls until a court says otherwise.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:20 pm
==I thought the unions already took legal action to prevent this. Now that the funds are actually being diverted, will the court intervene?==
Was there an injunction entered? If not, the simple filing of a lawsuit does not prevent the implementation of the a Executive Order
Comment by Anonymoiis Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:20 pm
Carhartt coat to orange jumpsuit.
Comment by lil' enchililada Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:24 pm
Has anyone asked Kimme?
She is now making a living lobbying all the people who made this decision, many of whom she placed in their jobs. You think she is going say anything privately or publicly against it? No.
Comment by Muzica Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:24 pm
==The Comptroller is still running payrolls they know breaks laws and contracts. ==
I would also point out that payrolls that broke contracts have been run for a long time for those individuals who were denied their contractually obligated raises a few years ago.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:25 pm
===Lynch questioned what legal liability those payroll employees would face in issuing “inaccurate checks.” The system explained in the memo exposes a level of uncertainty associated with what labor expert Robert Bruno called “virgin territory.”===
Ve vere only following ze orders.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:27 pm
Demoralized - Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:17 pm:
=Oh please. If there’s all of these illegal activities going on then you better report them.=
I did and got fired. What la la land are living in?
Dope.
Comment by Qui Tam Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:27 pm
As official with holding agent for the state of Illinois the Comptroller can reject this payroll if they determine it breaks the law. In an attempt to avoid that responsibility the Comptroller worked with the governors office to change the verbage on the payroll certification forms for these payrolls. The Comptroller is playing ball with the Governor without sticking her neck out too far.
Comment by Union dues Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:29 pm
“I did and got fired.”
Let’s talk about a whistleblower claim!
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:32 pm
==I did and got fired.==
Hire a lawyer. Last time I checked retaliation for blowing the whistle was illegal.
Dope.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:32 pm
==Comptroller can reject this payroll if they determine it breaks the law.==
It doesn’t break the law until a court says so. An EO has the force of law.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:33 pm
Here’s the Fair Share section of the current AFSCME contract from Article IV:
“Pursuant to Section 3(g) of the Illinois Public
Labor Relations Act effective July 1, 1984, the parties
agree that the Union certified proportionate share,
which shall not exceed the amount of dues uniformly
required of members, shall be deducted from the earnings
of the non-member employees as their share of the cost
of the collective bargaining process, contract
administration and the pursuance of matters affecting
wages, hours and conditions of employment subject to
terms and provisions of the parties’ fair share
agreement. THE AMOUNT SO DEDUCTED SHALL BE REMITTED
SEMI-MONTHLY TO THE UNION.”
Now that the fair share no longer goes to the union, Rauner for all practical purposes is arbitrarily reducing a fair share employee’s salary. The contract also addresses that in Article XXXII:
“THE NEGOTIATED PAY RATES for position
classifications covered by this Agreement are set forth
in Schedule A and SHALL BECOME THE RATES OF PAY
applicable to such position classifications.”
Finally under Article XXXIV, Authority of the Contract:
REDUCTION IN BENEFITS, however, SHALL
NOT BE MADE APPLICABLE, and the provisions of this
Agreement shall apply.
There’s a lot of “shalls” in there. No matter how you want to slice it, Rauner’s directive violates the current AFSCME contract. (The emphasis is mine.)
Comment by Sangamo Sam Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:35 pm
If they beleive it breaks the law they dont have to accept it. Whether it actually does could be determined later. If the Comptroller thought it was ok she would not have required the change of verbage on the certification form. She chose to assist.
Comment by Union dues Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:38 pm
==I did and got fired.==
Also, I hope you have a new job. If so I’m sure you’re far better off than you were if you worked in a cesspool of illegal activity. Still, hire a lawyer.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:39 pm
===An EO has the force of law.===
Not really, but the point isn’t worth arguing. Either chamber of the GA could vote to nix that EO tomorrow, but I suspect the courts will get to it soon enough. Easy for me to say, since I’m not on the state payroll.
But Rauner ought to re-read the state Constitution and specifically, Article V, Section 11, because he most certainly has overplayed his hand.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:44 pm
==she would not have required the change of verbage on the certification form==
The certification isn’t for her. It’s legal protection for the employee’s signing the payroll.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:45 pm
47th - “re-read?” Didn’t you mean “read?”
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:46 pm
===An EO has the force of law.===
Even if it did it would be ex post facto.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:48 pm
==Either chamber of the GA could vote to nix that EO tomorrow, but I suspect the courts will get to it soon enough==
If and until they do, Demoralized is correct
Comment by Anonymoiis Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:48 pm
. . . or until another Governor rescinds the EO. Forgot that one.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:48 pm
==Even if it did it would be ex post facto.==
How so?
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:50 pm
Thanks Sangamo Sam @ 4:35 PM. Seems that the union has to file a grievance. Could be a long and drawn out process. Courts might be reluctant to interfere before the grievance process plays out. Assuming the final step in the grievance procedure is final and binding arbitration, if AFSCME wins, only remedy for arbitrator is cease and desist to Executive Branch. Arbitrator cannot issue damage awards.
Comment by Yossarian Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:53 pm
Article I, section 10, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution provides that no state shall pass any ex post facto law. Like wise, Article I, section 9, clause 3 imposes the same prohibition upon the federal government. The Constitution protects individuals by denying to the Congress or state legislatures the power to punish people by passing ex post facto laws
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:54 pm
That still doesn’t explain why you think this is ex post facto. Ex post facto has to do with applying things retroactively. Not sure how that applies here.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 4:56 pm
47th Ward, not to be difficult because I agree with your general view on this specific manner, but Article V Section 11 is not really on limitation on the use of executive orders, but really more of an expansion. By there nature, EOs cannot contravene statutes (which this EO does). What section 11 permits is for the Governor to issue an EO that contradicts statute in instances where an agency is reorganized or duties being reassigned. And because that assumes statute is being contradicted, it has the trigger that allows either chamber to disapprove of the EO.
Comment by Juice Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:00 pm
And she agreed to give them the legal cover they requested. She didnt have to.
Comment by Union dues Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:01 pm
The desire to thwart abuses of power also inspired the Framers of the Constitution to prohibit bills of attainder, which are laws that inflict punishment on named individuals or on easily ascertainable members of a group without the benefit of a trial. Both ex post facto laws and bills of attainder deprive those subject to them of due process of law—that is, of notice and an opportunity to be heard before being deprived of life, liberty, or property.
Signed contract by State. Fair share legal. EO now says not legal. No trial. Property being taken from unions and gross pay from employee.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:02 pm
I think they mean bill of attainder. Still wrong but closer.
Comment by Jimbo Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:03 pm
I have a feelin this is gonna cause full membership to be significantly increasin. Now maybe I’m givin him too much credit BUT ….. Is it possible that is what he wants? It’s much easier to lock out employees who are full Union members than those that are only fair share. Just sayin……
Comment by Bitter Broad Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:03 pm
Munger appears to be more gubernatorial than our governor.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:22 pm
I’m not certain that Rauner would listen to JBT. This guy is sui generis
Comment by Mr. Moto Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:27 pm
JS: Wake up. Munger is worthless as well. Also, I read the law to give Rauner a full 4-year term appointment. She will be replaced by a Democrat in 2 years.
Comment by Mr. Moto Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:46 pm
Does that Carhartt come in Orange?
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:53 pm
the only time a state employee is supposed to refuse an order is when it is an unlawful one. I would say this is the case.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:01 pm
===”Conptroller Munger, you are earning the reputation that proceeded you. Your actions are building a record of solid decisions, based on following the law. You inherited a heck of a Crew. Do your job, listen, learn, as you have been doing, and you are going to be regarded as a heck of a Comptroller. Well done, you and your Crew.”===
Now you are a fan of hers? When she was first appointed and you were squawking in indignation. You even attacked those of us who called her “outstanding.”
Little grasshopper, you have a lot to learn for a so-called Republican!
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:14 pm
The money either belongs to the union or the employee. There is no rational justification for the state to retain it. Time to bone up on the recall procedures.
Comment by relocated Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:18 pm
Good for Governor Rauner! He’s doing the right thing. No more forced dues by non Union members to pay for the democrat machine that has destroyed this state. This is going to energize the Republican base. I’m writing a check right now to send to the Rauner campaign victory fund for republicans! We are going to swell that fund to $100 million to get rid of pro-Union democrats in the next election.
Comment by Truthteller Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:18 pm
@ “TruthTeller”:
“No more forced dues by non Union members to pay for the democrat machine that has destroyed this state.”
You are a dope. The fair share dues are explicitly prevented by law to be used for political activities.
There are no ‘forced dues’. If you don’t want the job, don’t take it. Look on Careerbuilder, there are literally thousands of other opportunities to choose from.
And are you so dense that you don’t see the hipocracy of railing against ’special interests’ while raising $100 Million to support ‘Rauner Special Interests tm’?
Comment by How Ironic Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:33 pm
===Now you are a fan of hers? When she was first appointed and you were squawking in indignation. You even attacked those of us who called her “outstanding.”===
No, you Dope.
“Trust but verify”
I stand by every comment I had, in real time, and the caution I know was prudent.
Can’t you … Read?
===Your actions are building a record of solid decisions, based on following the law.===
Being the shill that you are blinds you to reading.
“…building a record…”.
I’m embarrased for you. I don’t worry for you. Like Ron Sandack, you’ll respond as you’re told.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:34 pm
This illegal act is no surprise. This is what ideologues do, and Rauner is an ideologue, and a hypocritical one at that.
“No more forced dues by non Union members to pay for the democrat machine that has destroyed this state.”
His “Turnaround Agenda” attacks public unions as special interests in the state’s website. In the very same website, Rauner praises his company’s management of public employee pensions and says it was a great value for employees and taxpayers:
“GTCR has been trusted for decades to oversee the retirement investments of first responders, teachers and other Illinois workers and has created tremendous returns for them – far surpassing the stock market’s performance – providing exceptional value for taxpayers.”
He shamelessly tells Illinoisans that his company’s been investing in pensions for decades–not a few years, but decades.
If people believe the IPI/Rauner propaganda, then they are forced to accept that Rauner helped “destroy” Illinois. They can’t spin their way out of this.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:40 pm
@Mr.Moto- not sure about you but I dram when I sleep not post comments on blogs. You must be a very weird somnambulist.
As for my comments regarding Mrs. Munger- I stand by my lucid comment.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:57 pm
If this is an illegal unconstitutional bill of attainder, I guess Pitch gets his pension back.
/snark (mostly)
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 6:59 pm
Two sets of books? Some of these employees have social security and Medicare withholding? Someone call the IRS!
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:08 pm
Is anyone keeping a tally of the number of times Rauner said something that was immediately refuted? Munger spokesman said he wasn’t correct. They’re days away from a budget, he’s spoken with Cullerton, etc. What started on election night was a pattern of behavior where Rauner claims someone said something or agreed to something when they didn’t. It’s happened too many times to believe he misspoke.
Comment by AC Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:08 pm
@truthteller
Nice comment- you are either an intern with IPI, on BVR’s staff, or just a dope. You know what they say about “a fool and his money….”
Comment by White Dynamite Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:09 pm
“GTCR has been trusted for decades to oversee the retirement investments of first responders, teachers and other Illinois workers and has created tremendous returns for them – far surpassing the stock market’s performance – providing exceptional value for taxpayers”.
If the returns have been so “tremendous” why are the pension systems in the shape they’re in? Defined systems are based on years of service x 1.67 (or 2.5)where I work. His “tremendous” returns. Hog wash!
Comment by Minnow Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:23 pm
Regarding the link, I’m most interested in how this plays out in the Comptroller’s office at this point.
Comment by anonlurker Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:31 pm
- Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 5:02 pm:
No idea where you are going with your little constitutional meander but I’m sure it means something to you. Me? I have no clue.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:35 pm
==No more forced dues by non Union members ==
That qualifies as a double dope statement.
A. Nobody is forced to pay union dues. Unless slavery has been legalized again nobody is forced to take a union job nor are they forced to remain in a union job.
B. They are union members. They aren’t non-union.
==I’m writing a check right now to send to the Rauner campaign victory fund for republicans!==
That’s just troll territory right there. Or you are practicing writing ads for a future Rauner campaign.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:37 pm
==the only time a state employee is supposed to refuse an order is when it is an unlawful one. I would say this is the case. ==
Let me preface what I’m about to say by saying that I think what the Governor is doing is absolutely ridiculous. I think his constitutional arguments are laughable.
That being said, I still say that so long as a court has not made a ruling and so long as the GA has not voted against the EO, there isn’t a basis to say that this is illegal. We all probably have the same opinion about this (well, at least most of us), but that doesn’t make it illegal.
I’m going to wait and see what a judge says. In the meantime I’ll criticize what the Governor has done. But can we please stop with the legal mumbo jumbo that suggests state employees carrying out these orders are somehow breaking the law? Please. Because that argument is ridiculous.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:42 pm
@Truthteller
– “Good for Governor Rauner!”
This is parody, right?
Comment by Need-to-know Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:51 pm
Rauner wants the employees to strike. His negotiating team wants to take call back and bumping tights away from employees in negotiations. So he can lay of employees with 20 plus years of service and not have to call them back or go by seniority.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:51 pm
Agree with Demoralized- especially at the agency level
Comment by White Dynamite Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:54 pm
Is it too soon to reserve the room next to Blago’s?
Comment by Bulldog 58 Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 7:54 pm
An example of ex post facto: I drive 45 in a 45 zone on Monday. On Tuesday they lower the speed limit to 35 and then write me a ticket for 10 over. That’s what the ex post facto prohibition is all about.
What we have here is no ex post facto, simply a change in “law” (albeit a highly questionable one.)
Comment by skeptic Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 8:14 pm
You can judge a person’s future behavior by their past did we really expect anything different from Rauner.
Comment by rilt Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 8:20 pm
What is it that makes middle class workers hate other middle class workers? Why are middle class workers upholding billionaires like Rauner, who has everything and doesn’t want to see any of the middle class with anything, not just union workers? Because you know it won’t stop with union workers! We are now living in a time when only the rich are supposed to have a voice. If Bruce Rauner’s friends can give millions and millions of dollars to support his gubernatorial campaign so that they can have their voices heard, why is it so far fetched that union members would want that same ability? If we do not protect our jobs do you honestly think Bruce Rauner will? At what point did honest hardworking people become Special Interest groups while billionaires like Rauner and his buddies become the defenders of the American people? I work, I pay taxes on every dime I earn, I have a mortgage on one house and I am attempting to live the American Dream. Isn’t this what we should all have an opportunity to do?
Comment by Fairworld Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 8:47 pm
By some of the rationale I’ve read here, Governor A******e could issue an executive order ordering all union employees into concentration camps for re-education. And until a court rules or stops it, it’s legal. … Maybe I should keep my mouth shut and not give him any ideas.
Comment by xxtofer Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 8:58 pm
Xxtofer - Yep, taken to an extreme, that seems correct.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:10 pm
Nice job Fairworld. Because I think this goes to Rauner’s opening salvo, convince us to fight among ourselves. We’ve been losing for the better part of forty years now, and here comes a guy who is powerful enough to bankrupt and destroy, all in the name of “wealth” knowing that in his role of governor, we must destroy each other, so he just grabbed another spoon to stir this particular pot with.
Comment by Long time listener Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:12 pm
I’m surprised he didn’t wait until Friday at 5:00 to pull this stunt.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:24 pm
OW, don’t be embarrassed for me. I supported Munger’s appointment from day one, personally know her well and called her outstanding at the time. You flipped out over my statements and the statements of others who supported this appointment and also knew her well. I stand by my comments. She is an outstanding individual.
You went for the jokes, the gags and the insults then. Your shame, not mine.
Interesting that you now call me a “dope” and a “shill” for you apparently agreeing with me and your new found assessment of her. Welcome to the club of dopes and shills Mr. Pseudo-Republican. And I too cry for my party. It is filled with far too many mopes and dopes like yourself at the moment.
But I’m no pretender. I’m a Republican. You? Still pretending and posturing.
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:39 pm
== the only time a state employee is supposed to refuse an order is when it is an unlawful one. I would say this is the case. ==
Back in the day when the State had people who could still think on their own, I never refused an order but I did tell whoever was issuing a questionable order to put it in writing. Guess that caused them to rethink because I never got an order of that type in writing.
Doubt that would work with this crowd because it doesn’t sound like they are capable of re-thinking anything.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:52 pm
- Louis G. Atsaves -
Are you that person that says “I told you so”…
Welp…You are a shill for Rauner, and your guy is doing this. Maybe you can talk some sense into him.
Maybe you can have Ole Slip and Sue tell Bruce about the law, I mean Slip and Sue wanted to be a lawyer in a Pat Quinn agency. Not that Slip and Sue got hired, how about telling Bruce about the Law for a change, and not Magic.
- Louis G. Atsaves -, be careful, don’t be critical of Bruce. You don’t want “a (Redacted) problem”
Comptroller Munger is earning trust every day, every move.
You know how I know you’re a Dope on this? Leslie Munger told me;
@LeslieMungerIL: Judy Baar Topinka left huge shoes to fill, today’s resolutions even further showed me what she meant to this state.
Um, - Louis G. Atsaves -, even she is saying she is learning.
Tell how great great Rauner is, get the Raunerite talking points and his this move is great.
When it comes to Comptroller Munger, I stand by every word.
Your a Raunerite, - Louis G. Atsaves -, a shill no better than Ron Sandack, because that’s where you are.
===You went for the jokes, the gags and the insults then. Your shame, not mine.===
Everyone takes a turn in the barrel, the trick is to just take it. Thin skin won’t stop it, usually it escalates it.
I stand by my words, as always. You stand by Rauner. Against Comptroller Munger.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:56 pm
Could the legislature pass a bill that requires funds withheld for fair share be remitted to the appropriate party (union) within a limited period of time? This vote would put some R legislators in a tough spot. OTOH it would require the D’s to be supportive of unions, which D’s on the whole seem less and less inclined to do although they certain want union dollars, votes and field work at elections.
Comment by east central Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 9:59 pm
Rauners starting premise is he is ” protecting” the first amendment rights of 6,500 fair share employees.
Do we know that number is correct? Did any of them ask for protection? What happens if that number drops by half or more, and the protected class all but disappears? I hope they rise up, pay a few more bucks than they already are, and defeat the gov from the gitgo.
Remember, we have been told there are way too many merit comp Union members. I hope they are the first to go full share in big numbers.
Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:03 pm
OW, I stand by both of them and Sandack too, another guy you flipped on. No talking points necessary. With me, character matters in deciding who I support.
So Leslie Munger told YOU that I am a Dope? LOL!
Stop pretending you are a Republican and we will get along just fine. Now go back to your conspiracy and other tin foil hat theories. Your wild imaginative postings are just that.
Dope!
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:07 pm
I want to see a list of the number of fair share employees by agency, and by job titles (NOT by name). That could tell us a lot.
Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:11 pm
Xxtofer- I think you misspelled the Governor’s last name. One too many asterisks. (Hole not Whole). Kind of anal of me to notice, I know.
Comment by Late Night Reader Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:15 pm
- Louis G. Atsaves -,
Why do you care what I think?
===With me, character matters in deciding who I support.===
That has to be a joke. “Character”? Seriously?
The Owl Sandack, as a mayor feels one way about Munis, but fearing Rauner and Uihiline, will say whatever Rauner wants, “just don’t primary me!”. lol.
Sandack had character of conviction on SSM, refuting his own letter on munis for safety, well, …
Stop pretending your not a shill for Rauner, we’ll be fine. lol.
Every time you try to discredit me, it reminds me how right I must be.
You’re beholden to Rauner, personally. Your objectivity is shaky, at best.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:17 pm
Langhorne, submit a FOIA request to CMS. Be specific or they’ll game you on the response.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:18 pm
OW - Go easy on Louis. His wife got a sweet promotion from Rauner, has to look out for family.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:22 pm
Willy:
I think Union Dues nailed it. Rauner and Munger are doing a tango number here. Publicly, she has to appear resistant because she is running in 2016, but there is no doubt that she is working this out behind the scenes. It’s clever, politically admirable perhaps…but let’s just say it’s not a trait I’d like to see nurtured in my kids.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:26 pm
Character Willy. Yes, character. I support Republicans with strong character. That includes Rauner, Sanguinetti, Kirk, Dold, Munger and others. You shocked?
You in turn discredit yourself when you pretend to be a Republican as a way of burnishing your credentials on this site. That shows a lack of character. Be a dopey pretender if you want. That is your call, your choice in life, not mine.
Your 1% support of Rauner during the campaign and now since his election has been anything but “objective.”
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:31 pm
- YDD -,
I’m not discounting it, the politics of it too, but if I buy it 100%, why have the Governor’s people look so ignorant? It’s like saying that Dan Webb was doing legal pro bono, only to NOT be doing it pro bono.
It’s rank amateur at best if it’s “true” and if it isn’t, do we need to see what Rauner’s Crew says is true on every little thing.
I will tell you this - YDD -, if I sent a drive by email and didn’t see if someone responded, I’d wonder why the communication was made? Sounds possible here too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:34 pm
- Louis G. Atsaves -,
Rauner owns you. Rauner supports Slip and Sue, and supports Sen. Kirk, appointed Comptroller Munger, has Dold as his home Congressman.
As a good Raunerite, you do as you’re told now. Or else.
You are making these decisions based on your personal need. Your a shill.
You think what Rsuber is doing is right here? To the GOP Caucuses? The “Rauner Cuts”…
Going after lil ole me, I don’t get it. Your guy git the gig, Rauner can start work anytime.
You think on your “unbiased” support, but don’t think on it too hard, just ask what you need to say, make it easy on yourself.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:41 pm
YDD, I hope you’re wrong. I agree with OW at this point.
Aside from who’s pushing who’s buttons, I do know with some certainty that this little stunt puts a number of people without a stake in the issue right in the middle of it. Take the SERS Board of Trustees and Director. They know that contributions being remitted are less than the legally required amounts. Do they do nothing and just “dock”‘ the affected members’ creditable earnings for the year, impairing thousands of pensions? Or do they sue the Governor, Comptroller, and every agency head? If I’m a Trustee with personal financial liability for breaches of fiduciary duty, I know which why I would lean.
Rauner told us he would shut down State Government to get his way; who imagined that he might do it by knobbing up the State Payroll in a few courtrooms.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Mar 19, 15 @ 10:56 pm
The beloved son was home from college in December, and I was busy with him. Who died on Dec. 10, 2014, and what made this person such an influence on our governor?
Comment by Lynn S. Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 1:13 am
Judy Barr Topinka, Lynn.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 3:37 am
Willy, you dope. My support of Rauner, Dold, Kirk, Sanguinetti, Munger and the Republican Party has been consistent and solid for years. I speak out using my own name, and act under my own name. This occurs when I agree or disagree with them or the party.
Sorry this annoys a flamer such as yourself who hides behind an alias. It does allow you to speak falsely of others, including myself, and you do take advantage of your anonymity to spread your tin foil hat nonsense.
Stop pretending to be a Republican. Your not.
Dope!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 5:43 am
- Louis G. Arsaves -,
Why do you care? lo
===It does allow you to speak falsely of others.===
Rauner owns you. That’s true. Sorry, it is.
===My support of Rauner, Dold, Kirk, Sanguinetti, Munger and the Republican Party has been consistent and solid for years.===
Rauner hasn’t been around years, Slip and Sue hasn’t been around for years. Munger hasn’t been around for years. Your “unbiased” connection hasn’t been around for years.
- Louis G. Atsaves - you are a Raunerite. If Rauner told you to take out a GOP state Senator for not voting for the “Rauner Cuts” you’d happily oblige. Rauner owns you, you are not unbiased. To even hint as such is ebarassing.
You never answered if you support this move on Fair Share of its legality. Why? Because if you say you do, it will reinforce that the law meabs so little to you, not making your patron happy is all that matters.
It’s who you are now. Blaming me isbt changing it.
You sold out. I can’t help you.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 7:00 am
Poor Willy. Always right. Never wrong. Like Holly Hunter in Broadcast News, “it’s hard always being right.”
Do you know how long I’ve known Rauner? No.
Do you know how long I’ve known Sanguinetti? No.
Do you know how long I’ve known Munger? No.
Do you know how long I’ve known Kirk? No.
Do you know how long I’ve known Dold? No.
Nuff said. Continue being a dope who never admits he is wrong.
I find what is going on politically in Illinois pretty fascinating. Rauner said he was going to shake things up. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Nice to see you’ve abandoned your initial dope positions about Munger. You were wrong about her Holly!
In the meantime, you continue with your tin foil hat nonsense. Dope!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 7:45 am
Um, - Louis G. Atsaves -,
Do you support this move by Rauner?
Remember, Rauner owns you…lol
Do you support this taking of minies, this alleged theft?
It’s a yes or no. Ron Sandack woukd answer “who@, but I digress…
Do you support this action?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 7:51 am
I wasn’t wring about Munger, she’s still growing into the office - Louis G. Atsaves -…
Now Slip and Sue, I’m just hoping she doesn’t try to sue the state.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 7:53 am
It seems to me that Rauner is trying to break the union by burying them in legal fees. After all Rauner doesn’t have to even pay his own lawyers. The taxpayers are forced to do that for him.
Comment by CharlieKratos Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 8:38 am
= I support Republicans with strong character. That includes Rauner=
With regard to the statement above, I disagree. Not that you support Rauner but that he is of strong character as in “good character”. I cannot consider someone who lies a person of good character.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 8:43 am
“No idea where you are going with your little constitutional meander but I’m sure it means something to you. Me? I have no clue.”
“No State shall…pass any…ex post facto law or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts…” (The Constitution of the United States, Article 1—Limitations on Powers of States, Section 10).
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 8:47 am
OW, when you stop pretending to be a Republican, I will then answer any question your little heart desires to ask.
Remember, no one likes being called a Dope. If you are put out because I am jumping down your throat over your name calling and contradictory positions, well then, just put on your big boy pants and deal with it.
And yes, I am a Rauner supporter. How long is for you to figure out. Call me a Raunerite, Raunerbot. Whatever. Unlike you, I am not a phony.
Stop leading with your chin, you big Dope!
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 9:28 am
My Republican credentials are undisputed. You can’t. Sorry.
Typical, you can’t win the argument, make it about the person telling the things you can’t refute.
Embarrassingly pathetic.
My credentials are only disputed by those who are owned by Rauner.
Why make it about me, - Louis G. Atsaves -, it’s a yes or no question;
Is Rauner doing the right thing with this alleged theft?
What makes you the utter shill that you are, you won’t answer because, welp, when you get owned by Rauner, you can’t tell the truth, or you have a “problem”.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 9:41 am
Your Republican credentials are hidden behind an alias. You want them vetted? Come out of the closet.
Until then, your credibility remains that of an unstable flamer. Don’t sweat my relationship with Rauner or other Republicans. It is out there, in the open, fully transparent, real and honest. Unlike you.
Dope!
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 9:53 am
If you don’t trust Rich Miller, that’s on you, not me…
Just sayin’
How about that question?
You afraid? You afraid of retaliation?
It’s a yes/no question.
That’s…why you’re a shill.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 10:00 am
Still desperately changing the subject. I’ve trusted Rich Miller for years. What does that have to do with you?
Nothing. Dope!
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 11:09 am
I hereby declare a truce. Move along.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Mar 20, 15 @ 11:11 am
Does ANYBODY at the State have an idea of what this will cost taxpayers? 2nd set of books; procedures; computer programs; etc.?
Please. Tell us.
Comment by sal-says Monday, Mar 23, 15 @ 3:39 pm