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Unclear on the concept

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* From the BN-D…

On another level, the carefully organized protest last week [against Gov. Rauner], complete with its slick, professional signs, was actually a good sign for Illinois. It means that Madigan and Cullterton are running scared that Rauner is going to disrupt their status quo. The politicians understand that Rauner has the momentum, and that the balance of power in Illinois may be on the verge of shifting from the special interests to the overall public good.

I don’t mean to single out the BN-D because I talk to a whole lot of people every day and I often hear this same sort of thing from both sides.

People are seeing exactly what they want to see. They’ve made their enemies into one-dimensional cartoon characters and placed their heroes on white horses. No way can they lose. Victory is assured. Can’t you see the signs? It’s in the bag!

posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:48 am

Comments

The best thing about opinions is everyone’s entitled to have one.

Comment by William Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:50 am
@william

That’s the worst part of opinions. I feel like that’s entitlement reform we can all support. Rauner, GA, get to work!

Comment by PMcP Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:52 am
“People are seeing exactly what they want to see”

Best description of American politics that I’ve read in a long time.

Comment by train111 Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:54 am
The BN-D is making the Trib proud.

Comment by Tournaround Agenda Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:55 am
And that’s why the Cubs are going to win the Series this season, baby!

Comment by George OhWell Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:56 am
That read like someone at the paper woke up two days ago and said “We need an editorial. Because it’s Wednesday and we always have an editorial on Wednesdays.” Rauner good. Democrats bad. Democratic leadership worse. If only real life was that black and white.

Comment by And I Approved This Message Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:58 am
“On another level, the carefully planned media blitz (supporting Governor Rauner), complete with its slick, professional ads, is actually a good sign for Illinois. It means that Rauner running scared that Madigan and Cullerton are going to disrupt his agenda. That politician understands that his momentum is floundering, and that the balance of power in Illinois may be on the verge of swallowing him up.”

Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:00 am
Another one in a series of many Illinois newspaper editorials and articles that either don’t make any sense - and/or distort the events going on.

Newspaper journalism used to be an honorable profession. Those days are long gone. They used to compete with each other to get the story, and get it right. Now they compete to see who can impress the Koch Brothers and other political ultra-conservatives the most. Of course its not just newspaper journalism either.

Comment by Joe M Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:00 am
Truth is, I’m kind of jealous of the people who can see any heroes in this.

Must be very comforting.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:01 am
With the popularity of the internet and certain cable networks that serve as vehicles for specific political viewpoints, I think Joe Public tends to view politics as right / left when in reality politics and good government involve shades of gray.

Comment by Stones Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:02 am
Momentum, noun, the quantity of motion of a moving body, measured as a product of its mass and velocity.

What exactly is moving?

Comment by Anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:03 am
“…the balance of power in Illinois may be shifting from the special interests to the overall public good.”

Tne Messiah narrative is way creepy.

I understand that politicians sell it, in most cases, in a symbolic way. But it’s bizarre when supposedly thoughtful and informed people buy it, literally.

I saw it at a church coffee in regards to Obama. I couldn’t believe what some of these seemingly rational people thought he could pull off immediately, by himself, in those dark days of global economic collapse and two bad wars, just by taking the oath of office.

The belief in Messiah Obama was as beyond reason as is the belief in Messiah Rauner.

Grow up, people. If you want a savior, go to church. Government and politics move incrementally, if at all. That’s the price you pay for democracy, stability, and to keep the strongman’s boot off your neck.

Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:04 am
Yes editorial writers, Rauner has all the right ideas on improving the state’s economy. Don’t bother to look at what’s being proposed. It’s opposed by Madigan and Cullerton so it must be a good idea. Give me a call, I’ve got a nice bridge in Brooklyn that I’d sell you real cheap.

Comment by Norseman Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:04 am
Being from the circulation area of the BN-D this has been their MO for years. In an era of dwindling readership the BN-D had tried to remain relevant by fanning the partisan flames.

Comment by Anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:06 am
This is definitely overshooting the runway, but it’s not without any merit. Protests are not new exercises to many of the people doing the protesting around the state. There is clearly some organization to these spontaneous (lol) events. That being said, people are entitled to use whatever measures necessary in a lawful way to be heard.

Are those leaders scared?? I don’t think that’s the right word. Concerned? Too weak, because a person with the intellect of MJM is always concerned and takes note of everyone and everything. He’s great at prevention and good at opposition.

What in indicates to me is that there’s a full scale effort (not war) to match moves now. It’s important that people understand that the strategists on each side of this equation are very intelligent people and there are no numbskulls in the kitchen.

If you underestimate the Governor in the comments here, know that you’re doing the opposite as the Speaker.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:08 am
“politics and good government involve shades of gray.” Exactly right. The antithesis of “purity tests.” And synonymous with “compromise.”

Comment by Skeptic Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:08 am
===People are seeing exactly what they want to see.===

So true. So true. - MrJM -, well done.

I’d believe all that this editorial says, I would. I always get hung up on 60, then I really get hung up when I think on 60 and then 30 too.

Divided government is about compromise and middle ground. This editorial might have forgotten that.

Where are the Rauner accomplishments as Governor? Where are the Rauner success stories as Governor? Where o where are Rauner’s show of leadership and compromise? Where is the man they describe, this Gov. Rauner, and his victories?

It’s about the compromises, they are the victories.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:11 am
This editorial theme is almost identical to Blagojevich’s first six months in office.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:16 am
“They’ve made their enemies into one-dimensional cartoon characters and placed their heroes on white horses.” — Nailed it, Rich. Nailed it.

But it’s comforting to view the world that way. That kind of naive certainty feels like a warm blanket in which you can swaddle yourself. Reality is much more complicated, much messier, much more difficult.

Comment by Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:16 am
Willy, with respect and a tiny bit of humor; I don’t think they’re going to let you keep the “stat sheet” on this one.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:17 am
Michelle F, I honestly get a kick outta you very often, but that theme is beyond tired. Fortunately, you’ll have some company here though.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:19 am
- A Guy -, feel free to point out victories.

No one is stopping you.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:21 am
Look at the photos from the protests. Do you see any orange t-shirts? There may be a few there but 95% are local trade union folks. The AFSCME 1805’s have orange shirts. AFSCME folks were at work. It does not mean that Madigan/Cullerton are running scared. How absurd. What it does mean is that union members, especially the trade unions (who voted for Rauner) felt totally betrayed by him and his deception during his campaign and will dog him till he’s out of office. No these were individuals who saw that Rauner was coming to town and got organized, went down to the hall, picked up the new signs and engaged in direct action. My own opinion is changing though. I want all of them out of office! I’m ready to go after all politicians! I’m not standing behind anyone. I want them all to go down.

Comment by Honeybear Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:22 am
The other thing is that people tend to view their preferred positions as good for the general public, while the opposing position is just a special interest.

I know I do . . . although in my case, it’s absolutely true that my preferred positions would be best for all!

Comment by the Other Anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:25 am
A Guy, it is pretty lonely on this board, isn’t it. I think my estimate of 75% left leaning posters is actually low!!

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:29 am
Many people, especially the Governor’s folks would be well served to take a look at Vice President Joe Biden’s recent commencement address, particularly the part about attacking and judging another’s motives. I couldn’t help but find the advice he was sharing to be wise, and exceptionally pertinent to the current situation our Governor is attempting to create here in Illinois. One of the first things I learned back in law school while taking a Negotiations course, was never demonize the other side and attack their motives, especially publicly and away from the table; doing so does not soften the different bargaining positions, but rather it makes the opposing party rigid and defensive of their position. Rich, as a neutral party and journalist, ought to mail that section of Biden’s remarks to the Governor in the hope he heeds the words and moves past his desire to govern through publicity, buzz words, and press releases. I think many at the blog would be interested to hear the Gov’s thoughts on the advice Biden shared; his take on those words could prove telling on how the Gov really plans to approach all bargains with the other side of the aisle before he even sits at the table. Regardless of whether the Gov understands the principle and value of Biden’s advice to 21 year old college grads, there is an old saying, “A word to the wise is sufficient.”

Comment by *_* Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:31 am
Oh - anon -, you must not have been here during Rod’s 6 years…

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:31 am
There is clearly some organization to these spontaneous (lol) events.

No one is saying that these events are spontaneous, except you - in an effort to discredit the organization and work shown by these Illinois citizens.

You focus so much on what things cost, you have no clue as to their value.

Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:32 am
“It’s awfully hard to get a man to see things your way when his paycheck depends on it.” You can probably replace “paycheck” with “ego” in many instances.

Comment by The Muse Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:33 am
You’re right about the increments, Wordslinger. This is a political game of “chicken”, but the question is who’s smart enough to break off the collision first, and who’s willing to crash rather than decide to break off.

That being said, this budget battle will set the tone for the next four years. If Rauner can’t get ANYTHING from his agenda moving forward and Madman is trying to humiliate him, strategically he’s got to make Madman pay a price. It seems that Madman is in intransigence mode, but others here would know better about that.

It would seem that getting long term structural spending reform enacted with temporary revenue increases in income taxes and new tax sources, like services, may be common ground.

Anybody here think there’s a chance of that happening?

Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:34 am
I look at the Durbin race as a real test of where Republicans have a chance to pick up seats next year. He won by 10 points and took 32 of 59 Senate districts.

There are 11 currently Democratic Senate districts where Durbin lost or won by less than 10 points. Ten of those seats are up next year. Those will be ones to really watch, and if the well-funded GOP candidates can even take half of those it will be a big sign of a changing legislature.

Comment by Snucka Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:36 am
Fire the writer over at BN-D and just cut and paste anything written here - it would be an improvement and it would be free.

Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:36 am
The notion that Madigan and Cullerton have anything to do with these protests is so absurd. The people protesting don’t need Madigan and Cullerton to be able to tell that Rauner’s budget cuts and anti-union social agenda will hurt them, their ability to provide for their families, and in many cases, their ability to serve Illinois residents from the work they do.

Comment by Joe M Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:38 am
anon When you try to look at complex situations using a simplistic black or white, left or right, republican or democrat dichotomy you generally will misread the situation and environment. I expect someone who tried the same viewpoint from a “pure liberal” perspective would agree with you on the magnitude of the bias but would disagree about the direction.

Comment by former southerner Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:38 am
If Rauner has gotten the top legislative leaders to change at all and give in he has made a difference. I think that he wants to have a resounding victory instead of small ones with steady progress to an agreeable solution. He needs to chill some. And yes I agree no knights in shining armor in this fight.

Comment by Ginhouse Tommy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:41 am
anon - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:29 am, you forgot to add corrupt, special interest loving, insider, tax eating, and part of the Madigan/Cullerton Chicago Machine. That would be in keeping with the frat boy mentality of the Rauner campaign/communications team.

Comment by Norseman Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:42 am
What’s BN-D?

Comment by Little guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:42 am
===The Democrats’ bright idea is to tax more heavily, which means taking more money out of everyone’s pockets, including the protesters’.===

Yep, its the dems idea to tax more. And it is also the govs idea.

Comment by Langhorne Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:44 am
Snucka,

While you are comparing raspberries to watermelons you might want to take a look at off-year voter turnout versus turnout in presidential election years.
However, even if you do it won’t help matters because Durbin is a poor comparative barometer. Nice try though.

Comment by Wallinger Dickus Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:47 am
– I think my estimate of my estimate of left leaning posters is actually low–

What’s your estimate on revenue vs. expenditures in the governor’s proposed budget?

Or is tne substantive purpose of the exercise for you just being a member of The Club, and tallying those you think arent in The Club because they may stray from the daily affirmation?

Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:48 am
Snucka - just crawling out of complete minority status in both chambers would help. Even it’s just one chamber - say, the House - the difference would be immeasurable.

My theory/thought is that Governor Rauner is going to “assign” at least one or two high-level operatives to the HRO and the SRCC. If he’s investing that kinda cash and if he’s going to insert himself directly into some recruiting, then I’m guessing he wants to delve into quality control as well. And why not? It’s his cash. This isn’t like when a billionaire buys an NFL team and then hands the keys over to a coach & GM to “right the ship”.

Comment by Team Sleep Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:48 am
OW hit on something I was thinking about the other day. Rauner became Governor in January and we are now in June. What is his biggest accomplishment so far? Someone in the media should ask him that. He is the Governor. At some point it’s on him to improve the state of the state. So far he hasn’t accomplished anything. How much time will he be given before the populace will lose patience and say that he’s had enough time to get things moving in the right direction?

Comment by The Dude Abides Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:50 am
=== anon - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:29 am:

A Guy, it is pretty lonely on this board, isn’t it. I think my estimate of 75% left leaning posters is actually low!====

Friend, outnumbered? absolutely. But not lonely. Most of them take it as well as they give it. There are many whom I would say are philosophically opposite to my views, but they’re intellectually honest in their arguments. That makes it productive. Some funny cats here too. That makes things a little lighter when the temp goes up.

Naturally, there’s a share of goofs. Can’t avoid them. But ignoring them mostly works.

I’d buy Willy a beer anytime. I just know he’d go for the import! lol.

I remind myself often that this is a very popular site with a lot of state workers. They do have skin in the game. I realize it hasn’t been real easy for them for a long time. Even if they’re making a good buck, their employer has removed a lot of certainty…and man, that’s a tough way to live.

I present my views and do so as honestly as I can. I try to have fun and not take things personally. The Slings (!) and arrows are part of the participation and lively debate.

So don’t be lonely…just hold your own. The trump card here is fair. And when he talks, the 75% listen and acquiesce. He runs a pretty tight ship.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:50 am
Word, well said.

Comment by Norseman Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:50 am
Little guy: The Bloomington newspaper.

Comment by Skeptic Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:52 am
Nilla, you’re dangerous to agree with or disagree with. Never sure where it’s coming from.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:54 am
Skeptic, not sure if you’re joking or not, but to clarify for Little Guy, it’s the Belleville newspaper in the Metro East.

(Though the question did remind me of Emil’s famous “Where’s Rockford” quip)

Comment by Juice Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:59 am
==What’s BN-D?==
=Little guy: The Bloomington newspaper.=

No, it’s the Belleville News-Democrat. Bloomington’s paper is the Pantagraph.

Comment by Katiedid Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:01 am
1. “This editorial theme is almost identical to Blagojevich’s first six months in office.”

2. “[T]hat theme is beyond tired.”

3. “Substitute ‘GRT’ with ‘anti-union stuff’ and it could be June 12, 2015.”

4. LOL.

– MrJM

Comment by MrJM Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:01 am
=== Oswego Willy - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:21 am:

- A Guy -, feel free to point out victories.====

Gotta come up with something you won’t parse to death!

Here’s one:

He hosted Oscar at the mansion.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:10 am
==They’ve made their enemies into one-dimensional cartoon characters and placed their heroes on white horses.==

All too common. A lot of fanboys/girls and true believers in the world.

Even when we’re aware and careful of the danger, we sometimes still slide into the tar pit. That’s why those who challenge us with substance are our greatest friends.

Maybe we ought to set aside some time to criticizing our usual favorites, and lauding our usual villains — an “On The Other Hand Day” or some such, just for fun.

Comment by walker Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:11 am
A Guy: on Michelle Flaherty Deep snark in his/her comment.

Flaherty, MrJM, and Wordslinger have earned exemption from labeling their irony, IMHO.

Comment by walker Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:20 am
In Philosophy this is called epistemic closure. One sees only what reinforces one’s beliefs and trusts only sources that confirm those beliefs. Very widespread in politics for the past several decades, obviously. Genesis now to be taught in science classes in Louisiana, global warming a hoax, anti-vacs, etc. The list is endless… Sport fan analogies are fun, but sport is much more honest. The numbers eventually don’t lie, however malleable to fan’s interpretations. I hope this didn’t come across as hopelessly pretentious, but epistemic closure is a real threat to democracy.

Comment by Scholar athlete Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:21 am
Arsenal demonstrates how the editorial logic cuts both ways. Of course blind partisans are never swayed by logic.

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:23 am
- A Guy -,

The Oscar Summit is widely considered the most important meeting the Administration engineered. It’s lauded thoughout Illinois government.

I drink domestic on another’s dime, I drink only one or two imported beers.

- The Dude Abides -, this will be the question if the state does indeed shutdown;

“What will be accomplished in this?”

Then the real scrutiny begins…

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:32 am
A Guy, you don’t think those state workers you mention are really posting here during work hours, do you????

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:48 am
- anon -,

Careful, careful. What are you saying… exactly?

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:50 am
D’oh! Sorry for the misinformation. It’s Friday.

Comment by Skeptic Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:08 pm
I’m joking Willy, settle down big fella!!!

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:08 pm
===anon - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:48 am:

A Guy, you don’t think those state workers you mention are really posting here during work hours, do you????===

I’m living in a bit of a glass house on the “work hours” thing. Though I don’t work for the state, this peccadillo of CF would hit too close to home to be critical of anyone else.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:17 pm
I’d kindly suggest that anyone who thinks this is a “liberal” blog go back and read some stuff from the Quinn years. I mean, I’m a liberal, and I don’t see Oswego Willy at the meetings.

That being said, this blog (or at least it’s comment section) does have it’s biases: the reigning Governor takes a lot of abuse, and there’s a desire for “drama free” government (regardless of the substantive results). But it sure looks like both parties suffer and prosper from that equally to me.

Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 1:36 pm
==I’m a liberal, and I don’t see Oswego Willy at the meetings.===

2 things:
Start serving beer at your meetings.
Tell him where they are.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:07 pm
“Signs, signs, everywhere there’s signs…”

Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:12 pm
- A Guy -, I’m a Republican, not a Raunerite.

Thanks.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:14 pm
I can only call them as I see them. Don’t care about the Blago or Quinn years. Talking about the here and now.

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:29 pm
===Don’t care about the Blago or Quinn years. Talking about the here and now.===

Historical context and institutional knowledge is helpful…

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:02 pm
= People are seeing exactly what they want to see. They’ve made their enemies into one-dimensional cartoon characters and placed their heroes on white horses. No way can they lose. Victory is assured. Can’t you see the signs? It’s in the bag! =

Rich, this statement reminded me of your Guns of August column.

Comment by cover Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:25 pm
anon - So anyone that disagrees with Rauner’s agenda by definition is a liberal? Wow. And I thought they were only corrupt.

Comment by pundent Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:28 pm
Nah pundent, it is disagreeing with everything Rauner and pretty much all R’s. It is pretty entertaining, most of the time. Equivalent of Cub fans, just in the political arena.

Enjoy the weekend!

Comment by anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:37 pm
anon: Sorry to bring it up again. Your comments are always welcome here. But wish you would spend more time on the actual topic of the threads, and less of your and our valuable time criticizing other commenters. Not either or, just more balanced.

Comment by walker Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:40 pm
=== Oswego Willy - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:14 pm:

- A Guy -, I’m a Republican, not a Raunerite.

Thanks.====

I’ve been a GOP precinct captain (committeeman in DuPage) for over 20 years. Have I lost the right to refer to myself as a Republican? Does that determination rest only with you? Can I support Rauner and be Republican simultaneously? My party (our party??) has been squeezed by factions of the Tea Party, Libertarians, and all manner of pseudo-conservative groups in the past. Our loyalty and resoluteness has been questioned regularly. We’ve had to deal with Keyes, all kinds of guys named Ryan, Duke on the National level, and a host of other comedy acts over the years.

Through it all, I’ve been able to support and defend my party. It hasn’t been easy. But it’s always been something worth bringing out the best in. Rauner is the Governor, a member of the Republican party, and currently, it’s leader. I’m not a Raunerite, any more than I was a Thompsonite, an Edgarite, a Ryanite or any other ite. I’m a Republican.

Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 4:16 pm
I’m a Republican, not a liberal.

Don’t play victim as you choose to remove me as a Republican.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 4:20 pm
I think we can all agree that the status quo is not working in this state

Comment by Peoria Guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 4:47 pm