Latest Post | Last 10 Posts | Archives
Previous Post: Up against the wall
Next Post: What would health care be like without the civil justice system?
Posted in:
* As you already know, Gov. Bruce Rauner wants to close the Illinois State Museum. A Facebook group has popped up with the object of saving it. They have made a pretty good case through this thread that closing the museum will be a whole lot more difficult than people might think…
Wow.
* A couple more notable things from the page…
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:23 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Up against the wall
Next Post: What would health care be like without the civil justice system?
WordPress Mobile Edition available at alexking.org.
powered by WordPress.
Part of this story was on NPR a few weeks ago. What a mess.
Comment by Huh? Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:27 am
Stupid and short sighted move. What superstar came up w the idea that our history, representing thousands of years, should be discarded, just to save a few bucks?
When i worked in the capitol complex i always liked seeing school kids around the museum, and thinking about what they saw.
Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:34 am
All this stuff will cost more to move than to keep it open. Rauner has rotten egg on his face on this one. Dumb move. Talking without thinking.
Comment by All the answers Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:36 am
If anyone is near Robert Morris Gallery (accross the Street from Harold Washington Library) Stop in from 5-7pm this evening to support the Illinois Gallery Exhibit 30 Years of Artisans. It may be the last Exhibition of Illinois Museum Gallery Artists for years to come.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:37 am
Just tell an elderly graphic artist you’re selling him some computers, make him the sole shareholder of the Illinois State Museum and walk away from it.
Easy peasy.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:40 am
For crying our loud, some of the guv’s “superstars” need to get their heads in the ballgame. This is bush league stuff.
They’re making the government equivalent of Mike Trout money, but producing and giving forth the effort of Adam Eaton. A little hustle, if nothing else, please.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:42 am
This closure is part of the political moves by the Governor’s office to generate pressure on the Dems. Another ham-handed action by Rauner and the frat boys. The problem is that it won’t work.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:42 am
Is this Arduin at work — staring a spreadsheet, sorting by “greatest cost to least”, and then copying the top 15 rows?
This is clearly done by someone who has no idea about Illinois.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:44 am
Our current governor doesn’t value our heritage enough to find a way to keep our cultural repositories open.
The man who values an old “garbage van” shows us that he doesn’t value what made this state Illinois.
He owes every Illinoisan he cuts, a personal appearance, an explanation beyond costs why he is cutting them, and an apology for failing to find a way to avoid wrecking their lives.
Governing has consequences beyond balancing a budget. It is time he learns the “true costs” of his narrow-minded amoral approach to being our governor.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:54 am
And here I thought tourism was something we wanted to encourage?
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:55 am
Let the artists sell their stuff at private galleries. The museum is a nice attraction in Springfield but is it more important than caring for disables children and the elderly?
Comment by anon Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:58 am
It couldn’t have been much more than a month ago that Rauner participated in renaming the Illinois State Museum’s building for Sen Alan Dixon. Pretty much a slap in the face to participate knowing this was going to happen.
Comment by Been There Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 10:59 am
We are overspending by billions a year. The solution will require pain. It’s just that simple.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:01 am
This Governor still doesn’t understand (or refuses to learn) that State government is a very complicated machine with many moving and interlocking parts. It’s not a business where you can close a widget maker in Peoria and buy widgets from Malaysia. The Governor’s staff rails at “sham” hearings but refuses to to their homework. OW is right; The Governor owns these cuts and he looks ill-informed and foolish right now.
Comment by Sangamo Sam Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:02 am
=== It’s just that simple. ===
Nothing is ever that simple. Did you even read the post?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:04 am
Why haven’t the State Museums started charging admission (like many other museums), stopped costing the state millions? I thought the legislation passed a few years ago allowed for this? Sounds like it is too late now!
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:05 am
==The solution will require pain. It’s just that simple.==
Well, that’s a nice talking point. Now tell us all what that “pain” should look like. Simple? That would be a big NO. If it were simple it would have been done by now. It’s really annoying when people say things like this. To me is shows a complete lack of understanding.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:07 am
I can’t understand how people can continue to justify this as a cost-saving measure. The ISM has an annual budget of $6.1 million, or .002% of the budget gap Rauner is trying to close. It’s a drop in the bucket. And if Rauner is so concerned about saving money, why doesn’t he start with the six-figure salaries of his appointees?
Comment by Anon Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:10 am
And if somebody says something comparing state budgeting to managing your family finances I swear I’ll scream.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:10 am
Illinois Artisans Chicago has been a life saver for me. The perfect gifts for spouse over the years. (And just a wonderful place to spend a few minutes before some meeting around the corner or up above.) Saving nickels and dimes will not balance the budget. Raise my taxes, please.
Comment by uptown progressive Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:20 am
*****Nothing is ever that simple. Did you even read the post? ******
Yes, I read the post. Seems like we are spending tax dollars as the repository for several tribes. Worthy effort indeed.
If we are to continue this activity - we should probably throw a revenue driver in to make is a break-even proposition……like charging them for storage, or charging them each time they need to access the repository.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:20 am
===Yes, I read the post===
Then you would know that the museum stores a bunch of federally protected artifacts. Closing down the place ain’t easy, and I’m fairly certain will result in some litigation.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:23 am
==or charging them each time they need to access the repository==
I think that’s called a ransom. “We’ve got your stuff. You’ll have to pay us to see it.”
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:24 am
Illinoisans need to look at this from a logical perspective.
Yes they pay taxes.. but what do you get for paying them? Here is a great resource for education, history and culture that’s basically been free since 1877- as well as a boost for tourism which is a lifeline for Springfield.
Social security… healthcare assistance… unemployment.. public services like this. These give you real actual benefits for your tax money, which don’t worry your government will collect and spend anyway. When you lose them, YOU lose.
BTW- how about asking 2/3 of corporations to pay their tax bills?
http://www.iiron.org/loopholes/
Comment by jeffpass Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:25 am
With each of these programs, it seems that the basic question needs to be: “Is this activity, a necessary role of state government, particularly a state that is losing billions each year?”
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:26 am
Well, I guess we have to ask whether protecting our heritage for generations to come is a vital activity; I would think so: very short sighted
Comment by Someone you should know Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:32 am
“Is this activity, a necessary role of state government, particularly a state that is losing billions each year?”
Your question is flawed. It is not fit for government work.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:36 am
==Is this activity, a necessary role of state government==
And who answers that question? Again, you are making this out to be something simple when it is anything but.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:37 am
“throw a revenue driver in to make is a break-even proposition” Ah, so that’s Bruce’s “business acumen” manifesting itself? Government for profit?
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:38 am
Would it make a difference if you knew the Peoria Tribe own their own casino in Oklahoma?
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:41 am
==Is this activity, a necessary role of state government, particularly a state that is losing billions each year?==
Then I assume you regard the Smithsonian as a waste of money as well. This is a very short-sighted move. Our government is a means to come together collectively to do things that we as a society regard as important. Throughout history, one of those things governments do is preserve our past in places like this museum. If anything, Rauner should be looking for ways to increase the number of visitors to the museum and its branches, an effort that would have collateral positive economic effects for Springfield and the state.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:41 am
Here’s an idea; have the Peoria tribe start a fund to “Bring Back Chief Illiniwek to the U of I”
If they meet the funding goal, the Chief comes back. If not, well, the history of the Illini tribes will suffer the same fate as the Chief.
Seriously, the end of the chief was more about minority muscle flexing and UI BOT members pandering to them, as well as taking a bargaining chip off the table for an Indian casino in Illinois.
Bottom line is that these artifacts more properly belong in the Field museum of Natural History on Lake Shore Drive anyway. They already have this kind of exhibit, and a lot more people will see it there than in Springfield.
Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:43 am
–…particularly a state that is losing billions each year.–
What does that even mean? Losing billions on what? Is state government supposed to be “making” billions somehow?
Meaningless talking points, spinning out of control.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:47 am
Word,
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:48 am
Word,
The Peoria Tribe run a very nice casino in Miami, Oklahoma. (In fact I was there in May) I’m sure they are very pleased that the taxpayers of Illinois are willing to go into (further) debt to preserve their artifacts.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 11:54 am
=== The Peoria Tribe run a very nice casino in Miami, Oklahoma. ===
If we had treated them better, perhaps that casino would be in Peoria, Illinois.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:00 pm
There is much more than just Indian artifacts at the museum. Shall those go In the dustbin of the past too?
Comment by Someone you should know Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:01 pm
ABob: Your logic eludes me. Why would the Peoria tribe start a fund to revive a mascot they find offensive?
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:04 pm
Downstate
So, there are all kinds of artifacts of American history out there but if we want them in museums you people who “own” them need to pay us for housing it in museums. And when those people choose not to do so and hide them away somewhere then what? It makes you feel better because we aren’t spending money? Deny access to American history because somebody doesn’t want to pay us to put it in a museum? That’s just silly.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:10 pm
IF Rauner closes the State Museum, will anyone remember him by 2020?
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:14 pm
I don’t think anyone should need to make a business argument to save the six ISM sites, but you sure can. DNR is saying these closures will save $5 million. See COGFA: http://cgfa.ilga.gov/Resource.aspx?id=1822 That’s presumably if it goes smoothly, which Rich rightly suggests may not happen. In the same document DNR says one site - the Museum in Springfield - generates $17 million for the local economy. Imagine what the Dickson Mounds site means to that economy. This doesn’t even make business sense.
Comment by Jeff Park Mom Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:15 pm
You’re all aware there are federal laws governing the disposition of these artifacts and that the state is not by superior law “allowed” to just decide to quit taking care of them?
A decade of federal court battles (while the museum remains operating but not open, doubtless) seems preferable to you rather than working out an actual plan and timeline, within the parameters of federal law?
Comment by Educated in the Suburbs Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Bob, is there anything about which you will write something about which you know nothing?
The departure of the Chief had exactly nothing to do with Indian casinos. In fact, the Chief may be back before we see tribal gaming in Illinois.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:22 pm
This is a typical “Illinois” move. Things like historical information and the ability to support research are given no value by our profoundly anti-intellectual political class.
I worked at the CTA in the 1980s and 1990s, and we had a Library that was a nationally recognized resource on all things Chicago and all things public transit, and as a department head I made frequent use of it. It was closed due to a budget crunch in the early 2000s, when it was staffed by a single person who also had other duties, so the operating cost savings were utterly trivial. The entire resource, a collection built over more than a century, was turned over to the Chicago Municipal Reference Library, where it was boxed up and for all anyone can tell, shot to Mars or dumped in Lake Michigan or something.
Comment by Harry Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:25 pm
AZ Bob’s solution is interesting, can you imagine the out cry if a Chicago dem suggested transfering our cultural heritage to a Chicago museum?
Comment by Annon3 Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:26 pm
In the litigation to keep the museum open “Who” would be the defendant?
Hmm.
There is nothing easy about arbitrarily shutting down specific pieces that have state funding, especially ignoring federal ties.
(Tips cap to - Sangamo Sam -)
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:34 pm
Why not close the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Museum instead? Its director has complained about political hiring and poor management at the top. And unlike the State Museum, which has real artifacts, the Museum has none. They are in the collections of the Presidential Library, and heck, there’s only a handful of employees at the Library because no one’s been replaced in months. No repatriation. A skeleton crew (no pun intended). No more Presidential Museum drama. See. Fixed that!
Comment by Monday morning Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:39 pm
So, Rauner wants to close the ISM/IHPA — regardless of federal laws; wants to shut down the university extensions — regardless of federal laws/money; and wants to mess with the medicare/caid payments — regardless of federal rules? I think I’ve seen all of that mentioned here?
Is this typical? I remember Blago and his imported Canadian medication, but I can’t remember a governor who seems so cavalier about federal money and federal programs. Was I just not paying attention before? This seems like a lot of futile gestures destined to result in massive lawsuits. Or is it just posturing?
I’m honestly confused, I can’t understand the rationale.
Comment by Easter Seals Client Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:49 pm
I say move forward. Let’s see this master business manager handle a complex problem for which bankruptcy isn’t an option.
I’m guessing he and his superstars fall flat on their face.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:52 pm
As was determined through extensive research when the NCAA announced penalties for schools with Native American mascots and nicknames, there is NO EVIDENCE that there was ever a group called the ILLINI tribe or Indians. It is made up. Wish that groups would stop propagating that mis-information. You can learn more at www.inwhosehonor.com
Comment by Filmmaker Professor Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:55 pm
Closing a museum is akin to taking possession of asbestos; no takers. It’s very hard to do.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:57 pm
NAGPRA is a complicated federal statute, with extensive implementing regulations. A very active advocacy community monitors all NAGPRA-related activity.
This could get ugly.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 12:58 pm
With or without a budget crisis, the museum should be closed. It has been a vast waste of resources unfortunately. Anthropological help can be obtained by fee if necessary through any university system. Although we might need a place for Mike Madigan when all of this budget stuff has been resolved.
Comment by The obvious Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:01 pm
I’ve bought some beautiful paintings from the Artisans shop at the JRTC. Spent more than I should have, but back then, state employees could put a piece on lay a way with the artist’s permission and I took advantage it that perk. Now I have 3 painting in my home, I wouldn’t normally be able to afford. Such a shame.
Comment by Former State Employee II Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:06 pm
anon 10:58 am === Let the artists sell their stuff at private galleries. ===
The Southern Illinois Art and Artisans Center off I-57 at Rend Lake is one of the state museum facilities that Rauner is closing. Just how many private galleries are there in Rend Lake?
Comment by olddog Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:07 pm
“Anthropological help can be obtained by fee if necessary through any university system.” And what does that even mean? And how does John Q. Public benefit from that?
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:28 pm
@skeptic
=ABob: Your logic eludes me. Why would the Peoria tribe start a fund to revive a mascot they find offensive?=
Actually, the native Peoria tribe didn’t have a problem with it. It was the Miami, which was seeking a casino and ironically enough committed genocide on the Illini nation, that was “offended” but would learn to live with it if we gave them a casino.
Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:28 pm
So, we need to keep the museum open because it would cost too much to close?! Sounds like the state is the majority owner of a large time-share!
It’s the same logic that has the city of Detroit with $1 Billion of art work, while their infrastructure is in shambles. The only difference here is that we don’t even own the stuff.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:30 pm
@AA
=Bob, is there anything about which you will write something about which you know nothing?
The departure of the Chief had exactly nothing to do with Indian casinos. In fact, the Chief may be back before we see tribal gaming in Illinois.=
Actually, Art, I know one of the three BOT members who made the “midnite” decision to “kill” the chief. I worked with the guy for about 7 years.
While the minority muscle flexing was part of it from Emil Jones and his buddies, you know nothing about the subject (or Illinois politics for that matter) if you don’t understand that it’s all about the dollars in the end. At that time, the Miami were really pushing for a casino. It’d cost a lot of tax revenue and patronage if they got it. “Killing” the chief showed how tough beating the Illinois casino lobby would be, considering what it cost in political good will and donations to the University. Of course the left leaning faculty and administration were against the chief as well.
Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:35 pm
=== [The Illinois State museum] has been a vast waste of resources unfortunately.===
How so? Museums have been around for about 2600 years. You’d think that an institution that was wasteful and useless would have been put to bed long ago. Have you stopped to think that because they’ve lasted longer than most countries on earth means that they’re serving an important purpose?
Comment by Sangamo Sam Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:45 pm
Question- Does closing the museum(s) also mean shutting down the websites for each site? These are just as valuable, especially to people who may never get to go to one of the sites, AND for anyone delving into our history:
http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/
If you are one of the “closers” on this post, take some time and have a virtual walk to see what you want to have closed.
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:22 pm
“Rauner wants to close the ISM/IHPA”
The ISM, Dickson Mounds and all its other respective branches belong to DNR. (Not sure why)
Comment by Secret Square Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:30 pm
History of the ISM:
http://www.museum.state.il.us/geninfo/ismhistory.html
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:37 pm
From TripAdvisor:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60887-d2283849-Reviews-Illinois_State_Museum-Springfield_Illinois.html
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:40 pm
===charging them each time they need to access the repository. ===
Unethical at best, illegal at worst.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:40 pm
===It’s the same logic that has the city of Detroit with $1 Billion of art work, while their infrastructure is in shambles. The only difference here is that we don’t even own the stuff. ===
Yes, yes, having a museum with an annual operating budget that is 0.6% of that sum is exactly the same as being Detroit.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:45 pm
=== Anthropological help can be obtained by fee if necessary through any university system.===
You mean the university system for which state aid is also possibly being cut?
Oh, and FYI, anthropology departments don’t always do too well during budget cutting season.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:48 pm
==- Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 1:35 pm:==
In other words, you know everything.
Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 2:59 pm
Graduated College Student,
Where does it end? My neighbor has an incredible collection of memorabilia from the Depression. His wife would prefer it was stored somewhere else. But he still wants access to it.
Should the state take that into the museum? It’s historically significant. And would be a shame if it was not preserved.
The state repository can become a slippery slope. Just like deciding which programs to save, based on a facebook post. The museum touted the importance of the Peoria Tribe, but forgot to mention the casino.
I just think both sides could be heard from before people jump to the final conclusion.
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 3:06 pm
===Graduated College Student,
Where does it end? My neighbor has an incredible collection of memorabilia from the Depression. His wife would prefer it was stored somewhere else. But he still wants access to it.
Should the state take that into the museum? It’s historically significant. And would be a shame if it was not preserved.===
Well, the collection needs to be described better before I would provide recommendations on it’s disposition. If it uniquely documents local history, perhaps the local historical society/museum should be approached. If it is targeted towards something like Route 66, contact the museum in Pontiac. If it comprehensively and uniquely documents Depression Era life in Illinois, then perhaps it does belong in the State Museum.
===The state repository can become a slippery slope. Just like deciding which programs to save, based on a facebook post. The museum touted the importance of the Peoria Tribe, but forgot to mention the casino.===
The casino’s irrelevant IMO. We’re discussing unique artifacts from a lengthy period in the state’s history. That’s why it belongs in the State Museum.
===I just think both sides could be heard from before people jump to the final conclusion. ===
Sure, just so long as the other side fully contextualizes and describes the cost/benefit analysis that led them to conclude that closing the museum was in the best long term interest of the state.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 3:22 pm
Downstate, you need to take a nap, dude.
You’ve already worked Detroit, Oklahoma casinos, your neighbors, the slippery slope and “billions of losses” into your “point.”
None of which have anything to do with the issue at hand.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 3:28 pm
@PC
Nope, Just a darn sight more than many of my critics here.
Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 3:38 pm
Word,
You forgot that I mentioned timeshares, as well!
We all acknowledge we have serious financial problems facing this state.
Let’s take a different approach - which state programs would you favor cutting?
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 3:53 pm
Downstate, you might want to do a little research into that Detroit art thing. It actually saved the city… http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-detroit-bankruptcy-art-was-key-to-the-deal-1415384308
Comment by Soccermom Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 5:18 pm
Funny thing, Bob. I know the guy who was the Chair of the U of I Board at that time and who reluctantly made the move to dump the Chief.
That Miami tribe stuff is total baloney. Somewhere between rumor and innuendo. That had zip, squat, nada, to do with the decision. Use the Google and you’ll see the timeframes don’t even line up. Jeez, stick to engineering.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 6:20 pm
Oh, and see Filmmaker Professor (who is clearly thoughtful and well-informed) comment above about the “Illini Tribe.”
Bob, you are truly a legend in your own mind.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 25, 15 @ 6:26 pm