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Fightin’ words

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“We’ve had a lot of political leaders in this state who have been fighting to advance the political class rather than the middle class in Illinois. We’re going to change it right now, big time, here this summer.”

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:03 am

Comments

More 1% speak. All I see is a fight to make the 1% richer.

Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:05 am
Governor. Win some elections in the house and senate, then start the overhaul. For a guy that can count money, he does not seem to be able to count legislators.

Comment by John A Logan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:05 am
This comment panders to the same people who fell for the $18 dollar watch and old van shtick. He must think we’re all a bunch of rubes. He is wrong.

Comment by illinoised Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:06 am
What is my hero Rauner doing to help the Middle Class? Do people still buy into his garbage when he leads through inaction?

Comment by ihpsdm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:10 am
I think at some point the tide is going to turn and all these insincere words are going to come back to haunt.

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:11 am
You have no budget, no legislative wins, no Turnaround Agenda, no Union busting, no muni bankruptcy…

So, what’s you’re point… Governor?

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:12 am
My suggestion is simple. I suggest Governor Rauner and Speaker Madigan schedule a meeting with the Dali Lama and Pope Francis. This meeting might night do any good but it sure could make the situation worse than it already is..

Comment by Empedocles Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:13 am
Rauner: Full speed ahead! I’m unsinkable. Watch me move that iceberg!

Comment by DuPage Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:14 am
I am so glad that he is fightin’for me. I could do with a little less of his support.

Comment by Huh? Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:14 am
So how does that square with closing down the State Museum? If that is helping the middle class then his logic flows to closing schools. “We don’t need no education”. What a farce.

Comment by Beenthereseenthat Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:15 am
Redirect please.
My suggest is simple. I suggest Gov. Rauner and Speaker Madigan schedule a meeting with the Dali Lama and Pope Francis. The meeting might not do any good but it sure couldn’t make the situation worse than it is.

Comment by Empedocles Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:15 am
He is doing his best to play a weak hand. I salute him. Turning over the legislature is impossible without redistricting reform. Our state is dead last in almost every fiscal category. I am glad we have someone fighting to change that.
And I am NOT a Republican

Comment by taxpayer Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:16 am
I think part of the problem is that Rauner thinks that the middle class does not need or want government services, that only the poor do and that by making state government cheaper (by paying state workers less), the middle class (and upper class) will pay less in taxes, thus coming our ahead (no loss of services they use or want plus lower tax bills).

Rauner really doesn’t see how so many middle class families “depend” (I use the word advisedly) on some service or another that can really only be provided through government.

Comment by Concerned Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:16 am
The guy who can afford to not take a salary and never mentions that he made over $750,000 personally on January 1 when the income tax rolled back is content to tell people who are living paycheck to paycheck that it’s more important for corporations to not pay for injured workers, drive wages of all blue collar jobs down, and that the oldest, sickest and frail people across the state are less important than killing unions.

Winning strategy. Thank you Governor Gridlock. Oh..and anyone who is angry at this false choice is the political class? It’s stunningly cruel.

Comment by sideline watcher Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:17 am
Governor Rauner should have put some GOP members on yesterday’s SB 316 vote. Every single SGOP member who was in attendance yesterday voted present.

After reading the bill and then double-checking some analysis that I trust, that was definitely a compromise bill from President Cullerton. He inserted several measures aimed at CPS.

Instead, the bill failed. An alteration of property taxes, a change to the CTPF ramp and what would have been an end to the CPS Block Grant are now on postponed consideration.

Good job, guys. That is exactly what Governor Rauner wanted - or at least I thought he wanted a property tax freeze and major shifts in CPS funding and pension guarantees.

Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:20 am
“We’re going to change it right now, big time, here this summer.”

Using the royal “We”…

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:20 am
He’s fighting to advance the interests of a particular class, just not the middle one he claims. Well he’s soooo rich, I’m sure he thinks middle class is 100k-1million/year in capital gains with nothing taxable as income.

Comment by Me too Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:20 am
How is refusing to bust unions and lower wages fighting the middle class? It seems the only protection the middle class has is the democratic party. But for the Democrats we would have sinking wages and fewer rights.

The Governor has said he will not approve a budget without reforms that target the middle class, reductions in wages, reduction in prevailing wage, reduction in work comp benefits…. there is a war on the middle class here…and the Governor brought the nukes to make sure he leaves no vestige of the middle class left… after all they keep taking money from the wealthy.

Comment by Ghost Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:21 am
Governor, billionaires aren’t part of the “middle class.”

Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:22 am
The tide is also beginning to turn on Rauner. His allies are starting to call him out.

For example, the State Journal-Register editorial board, which endorsed him:

Rauner must remember his No. 1 priority right now is to sign a budget so Illinois can continue operating. Too many people stand to be harmed if the state doesn’t get a plan in place soon. Everything else — specifically the governor’s “turnaround agenda” — can wait until the next legislative session.
… Rauner likes to say crisis creates opportunity. That’s not so with this particular matter. Unaddressed, the budget stalemate stands only to create more crisis and hurt people unnecessarily. http://www.sj-r.com/article/20150707/OPINION/150709638/2013/OPINION

And his buddy Ken Griffin’s Reboot Illinois:

Gov. Bruce Rauner has set his own bar for “victory” so high that he appears intent on rejecting small wins in favor of big defeats. His approach to the state budget, in which he won’t engage in negotiations with Democrats until after they embrace his reform ideas, is a perfect example. … If he boycotts budget talks and concedes the process to Madigan, as he now is doing (and as Madigan appears prepared to accept), he’ll have nothing to show but a clean ideological slate.

Comment by Reality Check Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:23 am
“RAuner”

Comment by downstate commissioner Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:24 am
RC, that’s a huge stretch.

Plus, it ain’t Ken Griffin’s site. It’s his wife’s site. Don’t be a sexist.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:24 am
You have to wonder what a half-billionaire’s definition of “middle class” is.

Comment by the Other Anonymous Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:25 am
that is to say, that the poor have to work for a living rather than have their money work for them. You know Bruce pulled himself up by his own bootstraps… Well multimillion dollar bootstraps given to him by his father, but if he could do it, so can you, provided your family is very well off. If not, tough luck, it is your own fault for being born poor.

Comment by Me too Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:25 am
Sadly, many of the middle class citizens of Illinois who voted for Rauner actually believe this. They are still absolutely convinced he is fighting for them.

Just as in Washington, it’s rarely the citizens who matter, but party or personal agendas.

Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:26 am
Stretch? Their words speak for themselves. These are Rauner supporters directly criticizing the core of his approach.

Comment by Reality Check Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:26 am
My advice to the Governor would be to look to Minnesota as a way forward versus Indiana…there at least you’ve got proof of how to raise taxes and provide business incentive that does not adversely affect job growth or inflation in a relative sense.

Comment by Captain Illini Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:26 am
Hey, even the Trib editorial board called out Rauner today for giving his superstar Tony Smith a Tier 1 pension equivalent.
Did Lance lose his dictation privileges?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:30 am
Reality - sorry to burst your bubble, but the SJ-R is certainly no longer a GOP-leaning paper.

I also don’t believe that endorsing someone is the same as allying with that person.

Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:30 am
The more useless Press conferences Gov. Rauner has, the more we are seeing the REAL Rauner!! All Ideas and NO PLAN!!! Get a budget together Governor with cuts and new revenue!! Quit throwing the most vulnerable citizens of Illinois under the bus!

Comment by chiagr Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:31 am
Yeah. Rauner is all for the middle class unless you are in a union, then he wants to crush you. Same if you are lower middle class and depend on some govt services such as child care services you need while you work.

Comment by Northern pike Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:36 am
Ah, but let’s not forget these words…”I think eventually Rauner will cave because he actually cares about the best interests of the Illinois citizens, unlike most of the GA leadership. - Arizona Bob

Misguided, short sighted, foolish…

Comment by WeeblesWobble Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:37 am
RABBLE RABBLE I’M A STATE EMPLOYEE/DILUSIONAL LIBERAL/LIVE IN MY MOM’S BASEMENT AND I HATE RAUNER AND HIS ATTEMPTS TO IMPROVE THE STATE BECAUSE HE IS THE REASON THE STATE IS IN THIS MESS.

I know this is going to be deleted, but can you try to inspire more civil discussion Rich instead of making baited posted like this?

Comment by O.W.L. Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:37 am
It is so demeaning and disgusting to hear all these politicians “rally” for the so called middle class. They obviously think middle class people are way too dumb to realize that they are the pawns being milked to keep the 1%ers off the hook (while they pay the brunt of taxes for those 1%ers) and the pawns being milked to pay for those who are truly needy. But….so many are like little do-gooders who melt when they hear this stuff about protecting the middle class and just want to work harder, try harder so they can…what? Pay more taxes to help out both ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. It is time that those who can afford to pay more do so. That! would be helping out the middle class!

Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:44 am
Do not blame the democrat super majority that has had control for so many years. It’s not their fault. It’s all Rauner ‘ s fault.

Rightttttt.

Comment by Ordinary citizen Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:45 am
===I know this is going to be deleted====

One sure hopes…

Comment by A guy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:46 am
Rauner is like a poker player who is all in with a bluff, but he does not even realize it. The turn around agenda does not have to be passed this year (something that may unfold over many election cycles) but the budget does.

Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:46 am
AnonymousOne “think middle class people are way too dumb to realize that they are the pawns being milked to keep the 1%ers off the hook (while they pay the brunt of taxes for those 1%ers)”

Unfortunately, a lot of the public IS that dumb;i.e. look at Donald Trump’s poll rankings…

Comment by downstate commissioner Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:48 am
As a member of the middle class, I don’t want the kind of help he is trying to give me.

Comment by Joe M Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:49 am
And the young man asked: Doesn’t the president, the governors and the mayors usually present a budget to the congress or the legislatures or the city councils? Do we do it different in Illinois?

Comment by Roscoe Tom Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:51 am
I just hope that Rauner is up to the challenges of the office when this campaign for governor is finally over.

[looks at calendar]

Rats.

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:52 am
Rauner is all show and no go.
DO something for God’s sake!

Comment by Mongo Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:52 am
Here’s a solution: Bring back the Millonaires Tax. Tie it to an increase in the income tax, to balance the budget. Permanatly return the income tax rate to 5%, with the condition that it will automatically reduce to 4% upon the start of any Millionaires Tax. This would give Republicans a reason to vote for the bill and put the Millionaires Tax up for Constitutional Amendment. The lawmakers can say they provided the necessary income, while also providing for an income tax reduction for the middle class. Voters will be sure to vote yes for the Millionaires Tax, knowing that if it passes, it will reduce their income tax from 5% to 4%. Shared sacrifice from all, with those that can afford to pay more, expected to pay more.

Comment by Say It Ain't So!! Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:54 am
Taxpayers are paying a ton of money for superstar staffers and the best they can do is come up with the hokey political class phrase.

Comment by Norseman Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:59 am
To the question about what Rauner has done to benefit the middle class:

Pre-Rauner personal income tax rate=5%

Rauner personal income tax rate=3.75%

Based on a family income of about $56K, I expect that put about $600 to $1000 back in the pockets of Illinois middle class taxpayers.

Dems are political Robbin’ Hoods… they take from the middle class and give to the political class and those who feed from them.

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 10:59 am
C’mon Bob, you know as well as anyone that Rauner didn’t have anything to do with the income tax rate reverting to 3.75% per the terms of the law that was enacted 4 years before he was elected Governor.

Comment by SAP Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:04 am
@Concerned, Precinct Captain & others–I know many are being snarky when speculating about the governor’s definition of “middle class,” but it’s quite possible the term means something different to him than it does to the rest of us. Strange as it sounds, studies show that many wealthy people self-identify as “middle class” because they make so much less than those at the stratospheric (BVR) levels. For instance, here’s Chris Christie, bringing home $700,000 per year and with a $4 million net worth, thinking he’s a middle-class guy:

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2015/04/22/is-chris-christie-middle-class-class-and-self-perception/

Comment by Crispy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:07 am
AB, Rauner doesn’t have a problem restoring taxes if he gets his way on his non-budget, union busting agenda.

Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:07 am
When and if Rauner gets to “there”, the House and Senate GOP members will not want to be “there” with him. And they know it.
They need to find a way to thwart him sooner rather than later.

Comment by Austin Blvd Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:08 am
Pre-Rauner personal income tax rate=5%
Rauner personal income tax rate=3.75%

So what Rauner has done as Governor was asking the GA to sit on their hands before he was inaugurated?

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:10 am
I do think the definition of middle class is not necessarily something that is cut-and-dry.

My earnings in Sangamon County would give me a lot less buying and renting/owning power in DuPage County but would give me more buying and renting/owning power in Lawrence County.

So when we debate the term “middle class”, I think the actual debate needs to be focused more so on where the person actually lives.

Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:11 am
@SAP
=C’mon Bob, you know as well as anyone that Rauner didn’t have anything to do with the income tax rate reverting to 3.75% per the terms of the law that was enacted 4 years before he was elected Governor.=

If that’s true, SAP, why are some many posters here laying the blame for the unbalanced budget on his request for the GA not to make the increase permanent before he takes office?

As OW is so fond of saying, “The Governor owns it”. That means he owns the savings for middle class taxpayers as well as the necessary cuts and reforms he’s proposing for Illinois government.

Of course, I wouldn’t hold my breath until OW admits “the Governor owns it” to anything beneficial to the people of Illinois.

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:17 am
Think about what Madigan and his super-majority dems have done to the average Illinois taxpayer. Put each of us $45,000 in debt. Yes…by all means. Let’s continue the status quo.

Comment by Ordinary citizen Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:19 am
Mr rauner I grew up middle class, middle class is a friend of mine ,mr rauner you are no middle class.

Comment by William j Kelly Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:20 am
@wesencia
=AB, Rauner doesn’t have a problem restoring taxes if he gets his way on his non-budget, union busting agenda.=

First of all, if you don’t think the incredibly unbalanced union favoritism in Illinois doesn’t create a HUGE impact to the budget, you haven’t been paying attention.

Secondly, I think most rational people know that a combination of revenue increases, cutting of expenses and reducing the unnecessary costs of government like Workman’s Comp, tort reform, controlling education and other governmental costs through public strike prohibition all need to be balanced so that the business climate and costs are changed to net positive effect. it’s all in the soup.

Rauner wants that balance to happen to move forward, and he’s willing to accept some revenue increases to make that happen. Madigan, Cullerton and most of the government entitlement class posting here want the tax increases without loss to the political class.

That’s the obstacle here. I can’t fault Rauner for that.

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:25 am
Ah yes, the “political class”–new favorite buzzword(s) of the plutocratic wing of the GOP, referring to those who were elected to office, like, um, Bruce Rauner. Seems a n essential element of the representative form of democratic government.

Comment by Hawkeye in Illinois Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:26 am
@William J Kelly

=Mr rauner I grew up middle class, middle class is a friend of mine ,mr rauner you are no middle class.=

You are joking here, right William?LOL

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:27 am
- Arizona Bob -,

Your insistence on making it about me might say you have no argument at all.

How did that rollback work out?

Both budgets are at least $3 Billion short, and when all 67 are “green” for a revenue increase, how will you feel about that, ’cause it’s gonna happen. lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:28 am
“the unnecessary costs” sez a guy living in Arizona. But more to the point, just because you don’t think they’re necessary doesn’t mean they’re not necessary.

Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:33 am
It is very convenient to forget that the state’s revenue actually DROPPED for a couple of years (2008,2009) due to the recession.
The current drop in income tax revenue is a Rauner-induced, man-made drop.
It’s Madigan’s fault too.

Comment by Austin Blvd Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:33 am
Stunning the hubris of politicians thinking they greatly impact the state economy.

Comment by walker Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:35 am
T credit Rauner for the income tax rate reduction is deliberately obtuse. As to other posters who say that retaining the 5% tax rate would have balanced the budget, that is factually accurate, but not the only way to balance the budget. The GA can cut its way out of the budget deficit, it can tax its way out or it can do a combination of both. Still looking for a route that is as politically palatable as the temporary rate hike from 2011. To anyone reading today, please accept my apologies for rising to the bait.

Comment by SAP Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:36 am
Pre-Rauner personal income tax rate=5%
Pre-Rauner personal income tax rate=3.75%

Fixed it for you.

Last I checked, the income tax rate fell BEFORE ruiner took office.

Comment by Huh? Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:36 am
Senator Christine Radogno has been a member of the Illinois Senate since 1997 and Representative Jim Durkin with breaks in service since 1995, does that constitute being part of the “political class.” Senator Radogno has taken campaign contributions from labor organizations, (ASSOCIATED FIRE FIGHTERS OF ILLINOIS, OPERATING ENGINEERS LOCALs 150, 399, and the ILLINOIS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION) does that give her admission to the political class? Representative Durkin has taken campaign contributions from labor organizations too (ILLINOIS OPERATING ENGINEERS LOCAL 150, COOK COUNTY COLLEGE TEACHERS UNION, CHICAGO FIRE FIGHTERS LOCAL 2, LIQUOR & ALLIED WORKERS LOCAL 3, and FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE) does that give him admission to the political class?

Or are only Democrats allowed now to be part of Governor Rauner’s designation of being a member of the political class? Or does a campaign contribution from Governor Rauner himself constitute a pardon from being designated as part of the despised political class?

Comment by Rod Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 11:41 am
Middle class is the buzzword. Everything seems to hinge on the middle class. Give them jobs, give them tax breaks…..they need to be protected, yadda, yadda, yadda. Keep them alive and working! They pay all the taxes (even when they’re reduced) and that is their function. If you reduce taxes and they get $600 back in their pockets, they’ll think you’re their savior. The little people.

Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:00 pm
Arizona BOB, I never joke when it comes to rahmner, what are you trying to say??

Comment by William j Kelly Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:02 pm
It is absolute hypocrisy for Rauner to spout off support for the middle class while his Turnaround agenda is the right wing formula for breaking the labor movement that has served as the foundation for a strong and vibrant middle class.

Comment by bluecollargal Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:12 pm
The only thing to change so far is that the state is running on court orders, consent decrees and continuing appropriations.

Comment by Tact Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:17 pm
Arizona Bob’s point is that our hero’s (King Rauner) greatest achievments as Governor have been achieved through inaction. Changing the law takes action, which is something he hasn’t been able to do in 6+ months.

Comment by ihpsdm Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:22 pm
…@ihpsdm==do people still buy into his garbage?==

Oh, yes. Yes they do, especially in this part of the state. Sigh.

Comment by South Central Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:22 pm
@OW

=Both budgets are at least $3 Billion short, and when all 67 are “green” for a revenue increase, how will you feel about that, ’cause it’s gonna happen. lol=

This isn’t all about you, OW. it’s about sniping and whining without suggesting productive solutions, which it seems you can.

We agree that there will be some revenue increases. You know that. Rich knows that. The 67 know that. Rauner knows that.

The challenge here is to make changes that will balance out the negatives of limited tax increases to private sector job creation (which will in themselves increase revenues if done properly) through things like public strike prohibition, right to work, workmen’s comp., prevailing wage, and balanced labor law.

Raising taxes without those compensating reforms sends the wrong message, a message that will drive away existing and prevent incoming business. I’m sure you get this, though you won’t propose or comment on it.

There are a lot of states with less going for them than Illinois. They have higher taxes, less educated work forces and less natural advantages and infrastructure, yet they’re kicking our tails as far as job growth. The biggest killer for Illinois is the HUGE pension liabilities and uncertainty about the way it will be addressed and the history of incompetence and corruption in Illinois politics that make it a long shot that a solution will be reached and stability created.

I think Rauner understands this, and is trying to move the state in the direction it needs to take to create that stability. IMHO the Dem leadership couldn’t give a rat’s donkey about creating financial stability and a plan for stable, competent, and honest government and economic growth in Illinois (unless they get THEIR taste, of course).

What baffles me is why you, an obviously knowledgeable insider, is trashing the goals of Rauner while tacitly supporting what Madigan and crew are doing.

What gives?

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:29 pm
@WJK

=Arizona BOB, I never joke when it comes to rahmner, what are you trying to say??=

That YOU grew up “middle class”? Righhhhhht.

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:32 pm
I wonder what it would take to turn the GA around and get it to a point of a GOP majority. In terms of terms, years, etc. How long would it take if a proper (by OW’s definition) governor were to start small, build coalitions/voting blocs/war chests, etc and take on that process?

How many election cycles would that take, realistically, knowing what we know about this state and how the political side of it works?

1 election cycle? giggle
2 election cycles? ditto
3?

Given the grave status of the finances of this state, the propensity for veteran legislative leaders who are also highly successful attorneys to push thru painfully obviously unconstitutional bills that, once signed, take years to get to final destruction at the hands of a unanimous supreme court - how long does it take before the crushing weight of the mounting debt of the pension obligation crowds out the programs we are told are vital to the health and welfare of vulnerable residents brings the state of Illinois to a painful crisis?

Because that is precisely what is being suggested, IMO. Rauner should back off, learn how to govern, learn how the process works, generate his own power thru the GA by slowly bringing a GOP majority back. All while Madigan holds the strings of power.

Can we wait that long? Should we wait that long? How does one slowly retake power from the one who holds most of it? Certainly not with his permission, right?

On the other hand, if this is the “revolution” we are in deep doodoo.

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:32 pm
I go back to the first comment. These days it’s the 1% who is the political class because they’re the ones with the ready money to disproportionately influence elections.

Comment by Archiesmom Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:35 pm
@az bob:

Bruce is receiving $14,000.00 a week in Welfare with expansion of Tax Entitlements for the Elite that started in January.

$14,000.00 a week.

Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:40 pm
- dupage dan -,

Just keep this in mind, very specifically to Bruce Rauner;

He wants a Raunerite General Assembly.

With ILGO, the Turnaround Agenda PAC, and the usurping of a real ILGOP, it’s a moving towards one Ideal rule, with two parties floundering about.

Rauner can care less about the GOP, but desperately cares about electing enough Raunerites, with his owned GOP GA, to control the processes.

All good…

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:41 pm
==most of the government entitlement class posting here ==

Who specifically are you referring to Bob. I’d be interested to know which posters you put in that category. Being against Rauner’s position doesn’t make one part of the “government entitlement class.” I’m guessing you place anybody in that category that disagrees with your viewpoint. That would be most of us Bob. So, if that’s your criteria I’m a proud member of that class of which you speak.

Don’t you have something better to do in Arizona than be here?

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:44 pm
Bob:

It’s also laughable for you to credit the Governor for the current tax rate. C’mon man. Even you can’t be that silly to think that.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:45 pm
===laughable for you to credit the Governor for the current tax rate===

Um, both the House Speaker and the Senate President said they were demurring to the incoming governor’s wishes.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:47 pm
Ya’ll bashin’ the Governor on this one really need to get out and talk to some non-union or non-state employees. This is a winnin’ message to us private-sector workin’ stiffs.

Comment by Anon2U Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:51 pm
@Arizonabob, to answer your question, I am an irish catholic from the Southside of Chicago (born and raised) both my parents were Chicago public school employees. I think that is the standard definition of middle class and if it isn’t IT SHOULD BE!

Comment by William J Kelly Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:54 pm
@ Demoralized - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 12:44 pm:

=Who specifically are you referring to Bob. I’d be interested to know which posters you put in that category. =

Please see the name of the first poster on this thread.

Comment by Anon2U Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 1:55 pm
===What baffles me is why you, an obviously knowledgeable insider, is trashing the goals of Rauner while tacitly supporting what Madigan and crew are doing.===

As a Republican, and a supporter of Unions that have supported Republicans in the past, and the recent past, the dismantling of collective bargaining abd this ideal of “people make too much money” is not what, as a Republican, I signed up for.

Why did the “7 walkers” walk away from the Union Bill?

They knew it was wrong, and even being “yellow” was wrong too.

Rauner isn’t a Republican. He’s just not. The ILGO PAC and Turnaround Agenda are about Raunerite ideals, not Republican platforms.

Further, Rauner has made it very clear, crystal clear; “You’re with me, or you’re not” No Reagan Ideal there, a Slytherin with loyalty to himself.

I’m not an insider, not even close.

===Raising taxes without those compensating reforms sends the wrong message, a message that will drive away existing and prevent incoming business. I’m sure you get this, though you won’t propose or comment on it.===

I’ve said, numerous times, 67 “green” will be there for a revenue increase, what will you say then? All 67 will be “green”, it would be malpractice by bkth Cullerton and Madigan after ALL that’s go on to give one GOP member a pass. Your question/statement is moot, revenue will be increased. It will.

Rauner very well may destroy the ILGOP, gut it, leave it to wither, and move on, even in 8 years. I don’t worry about that, I worry what Raunerites will do to Illinois, what might happen there? I don’t know.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:04 pm
“We’re going to change it right now, big time, here this summer.”

Right now? Like, right NOW right now? Summer is half over! The kids go back to school in six weeks. Tick tock.

Comment by Politix Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:04 pm
My apologies WJK. thought you were the William J Kelley who ran for statewide office back in the day.

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:06 pm
Yeah, right, whatever.

Comment by Cheryl44 Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:12 pm
@OW

=Your question/statement is moot, revenue will be increased. It will.=

I guess you missed my point, OW. I agree. My point was that you need to balance out the damage the revenue increase will do to private sector growth with systematic business benefits to outweigh it, and not those corrupt individual “incentives” that get politicians kick backs. It think that Rauner is trying to do that. Madigan isn’t. Do you disagree that the “balance needs to be done to avoid hurting the business climate and job growth?

Finally, you say you are a strong union supporter. When public union interests conflict with the best interests of the public at large, do you side with the unions against the 85% of the remaining people not in unions? When teachers strike against schools who are broke (like CPS) for more raise and benefit money than the schools can afford, do you support the people and students or the union interests? the last CTU strike was a pretty clear case of that.

Just want to know from where you’re coming…..

Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:25 pm
===I guess you missed my point, OW. I agree. My point was that you need to balance out the damage the revenue increase will do to private sector growth with systematic business benefits to outweigh it, and not those corrupt individual “incentives” that get politicians kick backs.===

No, I didn’t miss your point. At all. Rauner proposes a budget with no need for revenue, your questions are valid. All you say, not valid, because recenue is a need, not an elective.

===Finally, you say you are a strong union supporter.===

Ugh. I said, specifically;

===As a Republican, and a supporter of Unions that have supported Republicans in the past, and the recent past, the dismantling of collective bargaining abd this ideal of “people make too much money” is not what, as a Republican, I signed up for.===

Your conclusions, that you jump to, really?

The rest was an opportunity for yiu to bash Unions, just to bash, no dialog there.

Please, read what I write, exactly as I write it, if you feel the need to try to “interpret” for your own narrative.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:37 pm
Of course Rauner is responsible for the current tax rate. He’ll be responsible when he raises it as well.

We’ll see how AB the engineer genius likes that.

Comment by Daniel Plainview Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:45 pm
@ab:

There are many reasons people go into business, stay in business, or get out of business.

Taxes may be one of the reason….but then again maybe not.

Not. Even. Close.

Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 2:51 pm
Dupage Dan: Always read and look forward to your comments. How long until a Republican majority in the GA?

Even with neutral redistricting, major funding for the ILGOP, success of much of Rauner’s turnaround agenda, retirement of MJM, or whatever one wants to imagine — probably not for decades. None of those supposed silver bullets are powerful against the general demo trends in this state. Of course, much can change, driven by national economics and trends. I wouldn’t bank on an achievable GOP legislative majority any time soon.

Or was that your point, in arguing that Rauner needs some better short-term strategies?

Comment by walker Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:02 pm
Most state employees will be moving back into their mom’s basement if this budget keeps up (and lucky enough to have a mom with a basement available). is o.w.l. Ow light?

Comment by Broken window Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:09 pm
Thanks, walker. My intent was to sound out OW on the subject because he continuously puts out the whole GA math thing. Rauner has to focus on the math, he says.

My point is that that kind of math is pointless in the instant crisis. For Rauner to follow that logic he would have to turn the dem supermajority into at least a simple GOP majority. It struck me that this is a doomed strategy if one were to believe that there is an horrific crisis RIGHT NOW that the current power structure seems willing to play with (MJM and his failed pension reform) as opposed to doing the right thing and risking their precious majority.

You are right - it could well take decades for the shift to take place. If one believes there is a true existential crisis, how long will IT wait?

I also am not too keen on what Rauner is doing and how he is doing it. Does he have a plan or is he winging it? Is he nimble enough to stay ahead of the curve while his emergent design comes to fruition?

I think Rauner is scoring some points with his strategy(s). Madigan making a public statement that Rauner should sign the bill is epic, no? How often does Madigan come out of the shadows, steps in front of the buffers - if you will - and makes such a statement?

From my vantage point and huge lack of political acumen, it seems like Rauner flails around until he hits something. Learning curve? He has struck a nerve and is causing some angst in the body politic. Rauner seems to be working thru a set of short-term strategies. Does he need a better list? I am not the person who would know that. Just a conservative leaning concerned union member state employee, close to retirement, life long resident of Illinois who is glad he isn’t in one of these jamokes cross hairs.

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:20 pm
Oh, sorry - dupage dan -

Gimme a min. Apologies.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:22 pm
OW - I really don’t think a “Raunerite” GA. At least not in the short term. If you are committed to that line of thinking you could end up surprised. It did appear that Rauner had tried to move the GA towards at least out of the supermajority that the dems “enjoy”. I am not sure he is stuck on that strategy right now. With the budget impasse, and some of Rauner’s tactics to shore up some hot button funding issues (school funding), he could be seeing a way to put pressure on the GA in general, and MJM in particular with this. If Rauner succeeds in getting public perception to view the dems as the barriers to reform and sanity, then Rauner gets the upper hand.

It’s all about perception, OW, not math. Power follows perception in this type of assymetrical political conflict. Not votes.

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:28 pm
- dupage dan -,

I think you have to begin with the premise, right now, Rauner needs 24 House Dems, 16 Senate Dems. All the Ads or posturing still won’t change that. Rauner needs compromise not leverage, given both budgets need revenue, and this belief by Rauner that using the idea that the Dems budget needs revenue, then the real stalemate, the agenda items, have a chance. It’s really important in the numbers dynamic to accept that playing field. Today.

To your very thoughtful comment, trying to decifer where or when the GOP can get majorities;

Right now, as my comment above, it’s really about Rauner. Dem primaries, and fighting for seats to get Bruce Rauner 60 and 30, ASAP.

Note: if Rauner would just come out and say that, own it, I’d have more respect to this process.

For the actual GOP coming back? You’d need an Edgar-type, Thompson-like, GHR-like leader that is willing to promote 1994 type recruitment with diversity. Both Durkin and Radogno are really trying, but their recruits will have a Raunerite caveat. With that caveat now, it will hard to mirror enough districts with that Raunerite caveat, given the Union rhetoric that will be immediate baggage.

Why Edgar-Thompson-Ryan style? Autonomy in the process will allow the political growth by diversity. Both caucuses today are too monolithic. If you look when Daniels and Phillip had the gavels, the diversity was quite obvious.

Can it happen? With Rauner owning the ILGOP, only when Rauner or his money-backers abandon the ILGOP, then the clock will start. If they’re leaving, the earth will be scorched, otherwise, why leave what you own?

That’s why I believe, in reality, the ILGOP is gone. Rauner and Raunerite ideals drive the voting tevdancies in the GA, nothing more, and nothing Republican by the voting GOP GA members.

We will see Raunerite Caucuses before we see GOP majority Caucuses. That’s real. That’s Rauner’s challenge. The Republicans fooled by what ILGO really is and what the Turnaround Agenda represents will be the most disappointed.

The clock starts on a GOP GA majority in either chamber begins when Rauner and his money leaves the shell corporation named ILGOP. After that, it may be a long wait.

And I haven’t even touched on how the Dems will respond… lol.

Hope that clears some things up, always willing to answer follow up too. Apologies for answering late, I was watching the Open Championship.

OW

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:46 pm
===OW - I really don’t think a “Raunerite” GA. At least not in the short term. If you are committed to that line of thinking you could end up surprised.===

The ILGO and Turnaround Agenda PACs and the monies for them speak otherwise.

With respect.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 3:49 pm
- dupage dan -,

One more piece to consider if Rauner really is looking for GOP members or Raunerite members;

Rauner has indeed promised a million a seat, 20 seats. Rauner holds the money now. Why? Rauner isn’t going to pass that on to Durkin or Radogno until Rauner approves who and where and the why Rauner will support that race.

It’s the Raunerite litmus test, and securing Rauner votes.

If it was a “Party” thing, give Durkin and Radogno $5 million each now, find bodies, let’s get the GOP going.

Nope.

It’s all about securing Rauner votes, first and last.

The real GOP getting back? Only when Rauner and his money crew give it up. Not one second sooner, see what is “left” of the bust-out, and start again(?)

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:17 pm
I am self employed so I am not in a union or work for the state, in fact, I am a small business owner and I don’t agree with the gov’s turnaround agenda. Nor do many of my nonunion nonstate employee friends. People disagree all the time, everyone comes into things with their perspectives shaped by their backgrounds. Doesn’t make them bad, doesn’t make them right or wrong. So please, stop stereotyping and generalizing who believes what.

Comment by burbanite Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:50 pm
You are focusing on majorities, OW, to the exclusion of all else. There are 2 large figures at the center of this debacle. Michael Madigan and Bruce Rauner. There is a struggle right now to determine the budget (altho Mr Miller is stating this isn’t about “the budget” per se). In this ONE area, Rauner hasn’t a chance to create and secure ANY majority in either house. Couldn’t we agree on that one small point?

What matters NOW in the budget stalemate, is who blinks first.

There is no math involved.

Your fixation on some future timeline is irrelevant to the instant crisis.

If Rauner, by some miracle, breaks Madigan by causing him to blink and agree to (part or all) Rauner’s agenda, then the entire dynamic regarding your math will have taken a titanic hit in the mid-section. If Rauner blinks, it will be BAU.

But, the whole math thingie is well known to all who spend any time here. I have read it and acknowledge the fact that you know how the system works - providing it is on a relatively even keel. It may return to that point but I sense a disturbance in the force.

with respect

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:55 pm
- dupage dan -

I must’ve misread your comment, because even your last comment confuses me.

What were you asking me?

The Turnaround Agenda items, how many make it I dunno… and the budget… they will pass… with structured roll calls, with 67 GOP GA “green” on all.

McCarter and McSweeney and all the “No Tax!” GOP members will be voting for revenue. That’s real. They are owned.

The “blinking”, so far has all been done by Rauner. We will see who Madigan puts on the structured agreed to roll calls, but the GOP GA, no one will get a pass.

How do I know? See 2015 Budget “Fix”

If you would like to clarify your question, I’ll answer anything, but reading again, I’m confused as to negativity are asking me.

With respect.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 5:17 pm
“… exactly …”

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 5:19 pm
- dupage dan -,

===I wonder what it would take to turn the GA around and get it to a point of a GOP majority. In terms of terms, years, etc. How long would it take if a proper (by OW’s definition) governor were to start small, build coalitions/voting blocs/war chests, etc and take on that process?===

Then…

===- dupage dan - Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 4:55 pm

You are focusing on majorities, OW, to the exclusion of all else. There are 2 large figures at the center of this debacle. Michael Madigan and Bruce Rauner. There is a struggle right now to determine the budget (altho Mr Miller is stating this isn’t about “the budget” per se). In this ONE area, Rauner hasn’t a chance to create and secure ANY majority in either house. Couldn’t we agree on that one small point?===

Can you see my confusion?

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 5:28 pm
My position is plain and clear, OW. You are reading into it something that isn’t there.

Rauner is not looking to create a legislative majority at this juncture.

Rauner is looking, thru public pressure and his vetoes to pressure Madigan to cave in and address Rauner’s agenda.

Rayner may well have a long term vision which would include using what power he has in the GA, and thru efforts to secure a GOP majority in the GA in long term. His efforts in that regard have not been fruitful.

It doesn’t matter. The current issue facing Rauner, and the state, is the budget crisis, need for more revenue, and pension “reform”. Rayner is using his veto power and the perception the public has that the GA is corrupt and under the control of MJM to break Madigan’s grip on the GA. To do so he must succeed to get Madigan to blink. And give in to at least some of Rauner’s agenda.

AND. THAT. DOESN’T. REQUIRE. VOTES.

If you cherry pick my comments you can make them say anything you want - it appears that is what you are doing. Otherwise, you are having difficulty comprehending that I am referring to 2 separate streams of thought. One involving the short term and one involving the long term.

I do not see a reason for your confusion involving anything I wrote. You may need to re-read.

Comment by dupage dan Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 7:01 pm
Nah, I can read. Your opening 1st paragraph and then your follow up seem to be at odds.

======I wonder what it would take to turn the GA around and get it to a point of a GOP majority. In terms of terms, years, etc. How long would it take if a proper (by OW’s definition) governor were to start small, build coalitions/voting blocs/war chests, etc and take on that process?===

I answered. So, whatever, lol.

Ok, to your new comment;

MJM won’t blink, he doesn’t have to. Rauner’s Agencies will be out of money, state employees recognize Rauner’s veto of their pay started that rabbit hole, and Rauner needs 24 Democratic votes, structured, so Rauner can leverage his 47.

Hit the search key on the intertwined on the State Museum closing. It’s on Rauner. The tweets, the testimony, the headlines - Rauner.

If you can’t convince people that shutting down a museum is Madigan, how will you convince them to pressure Madigan for budget, thus the Agenda. You can’t.

Rauner needs 24 Democratic House votes. That is real. People are going to really feel pain, that’s real too. The museum response is Rauner’s canary in the coal mine.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 7:13 pm
== The current issue facing Rauner, and the state, is the budget crisis, need for more revenue, and pension “reform”. ==

Rauner is not proposing pension reform, he is proposing pension theft just like SB-1. The only difference is Rauner is claiming that stealing all your cookies and then giving half of them back if you agree to have your pension gutted is “consideration”.

TIER 2 WAS AND IS THE LEGAL PENSION REFORM FOR ILLINOIS. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TIED TO A PERMANENT TAX INCREASE.

Sooner or later, probably after another unneeded court case or two going to the IL SC, the message will sink into everyone’s head and they can start the process of properly refinancing and funding the 5 retirement systems.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, Jul 16, 15 @ 9:26 pm
RNUG - I didn’t say Rauner is proposing reform, I said it is an issue he is faced with. As a state employee nearing retirement I am watching these things closely. I agree with you that Rauner’s submission is theft - just disguised as fair in much the way Cullerton’s was.

OW, There you go with the math again - as tho you have no confidence anyone has seen or read it. I get the math. It is immutable. I am just having some fun trying to figure out if Rauner has some other strategy up his sleeves. Kinda like reading tea leaves to figure out what North Korea is going to do next. But, I don’t want to keep you from your abacus, so……..carry on.

Comment by dupage dan Friday, Jul 17, 15 @ 11:12 am