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* SJ-R…
Backers of keeping the Illinois State Museum open rallied outside the Statehouse Tuesday, attacking the potential closure of the facility by Gov. Bruce Rauner during the ongoing state budget impasse.
About 300 people, most wearing “Save the Illinois State Museum” T-shirts, heard some strong statements, including from Jonathan Reyman, retired curator of anthropology at the museum.
“There is a right side and a wrong side to history,” Reyman said. “The Taliban and ISIS are bent on the destruction of the cultural heritage of Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and elsewhere. … Governor Rauner, do you want your legacy to be … akin to that of the Taliban and ISIS?”
Look, I get that emotions can run high at times. But if this guy is representative of the sort of staff that the museum has been hiring over the years, then maybe it ought to close.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:25 am
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Does this guy think Rauner and Goldberg are planting C4 in the basement and blasting everything to smithereens??!! Yikes
Comment by The Muse Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:28 am
A bit dramatic? Geez people. Rallies have the effect of making me not want to agree with you. Knock it off. You make us all look like kooks.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:30 am
Change is hard.
Comment by Tina Turner Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:31 am
To align Governor Rauner with the likes of the Taliban and ISIS is more akin to 2-Yr old Temper Tantrum and I take offense at that… I would not measure someone I disagree with to a terrorist, however I can agree to disagree which many cannot… If the top brass passes a budget then it will stay open… easy peasy…
Comment by Allen D Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:31 am
at least he didnt say Hilter? /s
Comment by Aschockedobserver Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:31 am
A carhart covered suicide vest? I don’t think so.
Comment by Chunga's Revenge Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:34 am
“Governor Rauner” is not either one of those organizations. Rauner does not represent anything either group touts, or anything either group despises.
The quote is a sad statement about the person who said it.
You learn more about people when faced with adversity then when they are bathed in success. I learned a lot.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:35 am
Hyperbole, they name is Jonathan Reyman.
Come on, people. There are better ways to make your point than to resort to false equivalencies.
Comment by thunderspirit Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:35 am
Analogies like that are guaranteed to win over the Governor…
The thing about some academics is, they’re long on books and short on real world common sense
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:35 am
Well said Rich.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:36 am
Okay that really bugs me. I understand that people want to save the museum. I get it. However, when social services are being cut to the bone, when the state is about to shut down, when the village is burning, I think we’ve got other priorities. Screaming about ISIS is SOOO unhelpful.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:38 am
I don’t care much for Governor Rauner, his staff or their tactics but that statement is totally off base and goofy. Reyman ought to retract and issue an apology.
Comment by Stones Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:39 am
Geez, that guy’s as bad as Sen. Kirk and Don Trump. Guess he can issue an apology and say he misspoke, or he could just double-down.
Comment by Randy Newman Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:39 am
None the less, closing museums and cultural and historical centers doesn’t create a positive image for Illinois. It doesn’t make Illinoisans feel good about their state. It doesn’t look good to those who want to visit Illinois. It doesn’t look good to companies thinking about locating to Illinois. There are other types of closures and cuts that Rauner could have used as bargaining chips, but choosing cultural centers does say something about the Governor.
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:40 am
According to the article, Senator Manar was also there touting his bill to keep the museum open and taking pot shots at Rauner. No where in that article did I see Manar contradict the ISIS comments. Manar’s bill according to that same article provides for no funding to keep the museum open.
Sheesh! Are there any voices of reason left in Springfield these days?
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:42 am
The ridiculous comparison makes me unsympathetic to the Museum’s plight. I was before, but not anymore. Close it.
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:42 am
I had to reread this, as for a minute, I thought this was another Kirk lapse. Completely unnecessary.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:43 am
Maybe the Rauner camp learn something from this man’s ridiculous statement and tone down their own unproductive hyperbole.
Name calling gets you no where Mr. Reyman when it comes to accomplishing serious business. You have hurt your own cause fella.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:45 am
Over-the-top statement, yes. Ill-advised analogy, yes. Helpful to his cause, no. Deserving of the following statement, no.
=== But if this guy is representative of the sort of staff that the museum has been hiring over the years, then maybe it ought to close. ===
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:45 am
Emotions are hard to control, but it sounds like he thought about this statement before he said it. Rauner may be many things, but he is not ISIS or the Taliban. Maybe he is taking lessons from Donald Trump.
Comment by The Colossus of Roads Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:47 am
- Louis G. Atsaves -
(Sigh)
===According to the article, … was also there touting his bill to keep the museum open and taking pot shots… . No where in that article did I see … contradict the ISIS comments. (Name)’s bill according to that same article provides for no funding to keep the museum open.===
Make sure the Governor’s office sees how you turned this slam dunk repudiation into a needlessly partisan hit on someone who didn’t even say the remark.
Seriously, we know you have Rauner’s back, flank, front, but twisting this quote to make unnecessary points, just make sure you get your “Gold Star” for the day. Your work is done here, you tainted a slam dunk repudiation. Congrats.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:47 am
This has become incredibly common in rhetoric and arguments like this. People see it used often enough that some think it’s a valid debating tactic. “Hey…there are some parallels here!” doesn’t automatically mean it’s a good idea to share them. But some people have difficulty moving past that initial “aha!” moment.
Comment by Threepwood Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:47 am
A lot of thr people at the rally were uncomfortable with the governor’s closure of the ISM to terrorist groups. But for Miller to suggest that Reyman’s remarks were somehow indicative of the “sort of staff the museum has been hiring” is just the sort of hyperbole and blanket indictment that this blog reminds us to avoid. It is a sensationalist statement unworthy of the type of journalism Mr. Miller seems to admire. Perhaps if Mr. Miller spent some time speaking with museum staff, he would feel less compelled to condemnation.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:47 am
Well the Goldberg and the Governor are touting their extreme agenda that is laser focused on destroying Unions… Besides their agenda poses a bigger threat to Illinois citizens than ISIS ever will.
Comment by Triple fat Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:49 am
Now at the top of the Leader Board of “This ain’t helping”
Jonathan Reyman.
He appears to have a very safe lead.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:51 am
- No where in that article did I see Manar contradict the ISIS comments. -
Nowhere do I see where he was asked about them.
$125k buys some serious spin out of you, eh Louis?
Comment by Daniel Plainview Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:51 am
*** Reyman ought to retract and issue an apology***
I am so sick of how everyone must apologize for everything in America now. We have become obsessed with apologies. He said what he said. Get over it!
Comment by Menard Guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:52 am
Hey, anonymous. Bite me.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:52 am
Maybe the comparison will be more apt when Gov. Rauner starts beheading people.
Comment by Tournaround Agenda Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:52 am
LL, you don’t close a 138-year-old institution because one goof said something stupid on one day.
His idiotic remarks are irrelevant to the underlying issue.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:53 am
The guy is a “retired curator of anthropology at the museum”. I don’t think it’s right to hold the hard working and talented people who work there now accountable for what this guy says. We shouldn’t shortchange the arts. Social services are important but so is art.
Comment by Decatur gal Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:53 am
The museum is good, not superb. Rauner is super rich, but not a Talibani. Rich is a blogger, but exceptional at that
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:54 am
===I don’t think it’s right to hold the hard working and talented people who work there now accountable for what this guy says.===
They put him on the dais, they’re responsible.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:54 am
You let someone speak, you make a choice to have their words be representative of you.
If the response is/was “We asked him to speak, it’s his words” then the fallout he gets and the taint the library gets after is on themselves for not dkibg their due diligence.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:58 am
I am curious to know why state government is functioning without a budget? I get that the courts ruled state workers must be paid, but can someone answer these questions:
Why is the state fair going to go off as scheduled if there is no appropriation?
Why is Sec. of State White sending out vehicle stickers, titles, plates if there is no appropriation?
Why are drivers’ facilities opened in order to get driver’s license renewals if there is no appropriation?
Why are IDOT trucks leaving the yard with full tanks of gas if there is no appropriation?
Why are unemployment checks being cut?
I though government had to shut down in the absence of an operating budget. Anyone know these answers, please?
Comment by Colin O'Scopey Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:58 am
===Jonathan Reyman, retired curator of anthropology at the museum.====
One must assume that holding this position would indicate that this is an educated person. Those comments are not indicative of a person of scholarship. As long as this was a protest, was there any attempt to shout down this person making outrageous statements?
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:59 am
Reyman knows hyperbole always works best in the extreme.
Comment by Triple fat Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:00 am
Guve anonymous a break…he’s just a bit rattled because Rauner’s closing the museum to terrorists.
Comment by Threepwood Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:01 am
Gang, not hang.
Comment by Jordan Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:01 am
Didn’t former Wisconsin Gov Walker directly compare his fight against unions to the U.S.’s fight against terrorism? ..the Doody doo that comes out of people’s mouths.Get them some toilet paper so they can wipe their mouths.Trump can use his toupee instead.
Comment by cez Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:01 am
Wow, Rich! …way to go; spoken like a true independent conservative! 👍🏻
Comment by Gantt Chart Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:02 am
- Colin O’Scopey -,
Please send all inquiries to;
Governor of the state of Illinois
207 State House
Springfield, IL 62706
Please report back.
“Thanks!”
ow
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:07 am
I believe Mr. Goldberg still tops the “This ain’t helping” Leader board. Mr. Reyman for all intents and purposes is a private citizen making a stupid statement, not a “Legislative Affairs” official sending unprofessional letters etc. attacking those he needs to work with.
Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:08 am
ISIS, Taliban, Illinois State Museum, hmm, I wonder if I can pick up that stuffed bear in the dunes somewhere on the black market cheap…Always liked that bear…
Comment by Mouthy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:09 am
The museum doesnt belong to Reyman or Rauner. It’s a legacy from previous generations who managed to keep it open through many “crisis” much tougher than this current dust up, which is not historic and will hardly be remembered in just a few months.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:09 am
If Mr. Reyman would read Capitol Fax on a regular basis, he would realize that Governor Rauner is actually a big fan of the State Museum.
https://capitolfax.com/2015/07/02/rauner-makes-cheery-visit-to-illinois-state-museum/
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:09 am
Honeybear- you may consider social welfare programs more important than education and preservation of our heritage. However, the Illinois State Museum was a well regarded institution long before we opened the bottemless pit of the modern welfare state. And, Mr. Reymann (Who is retired) is a nationally respected authority in his field. He has a right to be passionate on this issue.
Comment by Albatros Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:10 am
@Oswego Willy: I speak out at Republican meetings when someone says something that insulting and over the top. That includes all meetings, gatherings and events. That’s what makes me so loveable/unloveable at times. If that behavior puts me in the minority, then I am very comfortable with that position. And i don’t have to be asked or prompted to do that.
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:10 am
Well, OW, seeing how this is a blog, I thought maybe a more thoughtful answer than what you provided was in order.
Comment by Colin O'Scopey Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:11 am
==And, Mr. Reymann (Who is retired) is a nationally respected authority in his field. He has a right to be passionate on this issue.==
Passion is ok. Stupidity and hyperbole is not. National reputation in his field doesn’t excuse his remarks.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:14 am
In fairness to the active staff at the museum, they may have “put him on the dais” (although I doubt they took a vote), but they probably didn’t know what he was going to say beforehand.
You can say outrageous things to get attention in the news cycle, but comparing the governor to terrorists isn’t going to do what your speech was supposed to do–help your cause.
Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:15 am
- Colin O’Scopey -,
Considering this post doesn’t touch on your specific question(s) I figured Id give you a direction to find your answers.
The Google is helpful too
- Louis G Atsaves -,
Great to know. I commend you. I really do.
It also doesn’t add or takeaway your take as written.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:16 am
How odd that the speaker singled out Governor Rauner. I did not realize that the Democrats passed a balanced budget for the Governor to sign.
Comment by Bored Chairman Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:16 am
The sad thing is, this guy was not mis-speaking, he really sees it that way.
Some people think they and they alone are doing God’s work and should get special dispensations.
Comment by Harry Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:16 am
The museum should stay open no matter what anybody says.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:20 am
- Bored Chairman -
C’mon, Governors own. They always do.
I’m sure you remember that last Quinn/Rauner debate, amiright?
Candidate Rauner started almost every single answer with;
“Pat Quinn failed…”
Why? Governors own. Rauner owns closings, cuts, revenue increases, the agencies, hires, fires, “fires”, anything and everything… good and bad.
Always been, always will be.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:20 am
The museum here, is functionin’ in the extreme. The Museum needs to retract and begin functionin’in moderation.
Comment by Sheesh Hecuka Cupajava Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:23 am
@ 9:52 am. =Hey anonymous. Bite me.=
Consider yourself bitten.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:24 am
OW, and what, exactly, would I Google? My questions are valid. W
hy is Illinois government acting as if it has an authorizing budget?
Comment by Colin O'Scopey Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:24 am
If the museum workers and group protesting the closing feel his statements do not represent their beliefs, has there been any public statement saying as much?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:27 am
Rich,
Hope I’m not going too far afield here. But it seems that, today, every “issue” has to create anger and outrage.
It was recently pointed out that the Charleston, SC shooting was met with an unprecedented form of forgiveness and healing. Yet, others, unconnected with the shooting, used the event to rally for the removal of the confederate flag.
Emotions must remain stirred.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:27 am
- Colin O’Scopey -
Try…
“Illinois no budget still operating”
Hit “Seach”…. Wait… Wait…
Then… links will pop up.
Hit the links.
Read.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am
I disagree with Mr.Miller. This is America and his comment is logical. As others have supported him, he has earned the right to be passionate and to tie cultural destruction to others on this planet that engage in cultural destruction.
Adults will not feel the impact, but the 1000s of children’s minds that have been/could be/might have been affected by this museum is not to be ignored. This place plants the seeds in the minds of brilliant young people. (I have many memories of traveling from Normal as a child to see this and other Springfield sites)
Rather than destroying, make it something better. Let’s be growth-minded people!
Comment by cdog Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am
Albatross - I know what you mean… The amount of giveaways the State gives to farmers and businesses should be against the law… Especially since these entities don’t need them. You are aware that children and working adults make up the majority of those receiving assistance, don’t you? You see someone sponging off the State. I see someone trying to get ahead and nobody cares that they are receiving poverty wages… The way I see the assistance they receive is just another subsidy for business. Give them a living wage and they won’t need assistance.
Comment by Triple fat Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:30 am
Sheesh at 10:23,
This is the second misstep the museum has made - In my opinion. Their first press release talked about Indian Tribes that could no longer access material held at the museum…….an Indian Tribe that owns a casino.
The number of unforced errors are starting to grow.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:31 am
Really? So commenters do not want to support the ISM because of one speaker? Pretty weak, folks. There were plenty of speakers who did not invoke the Taliban, and hundreds of supporters who don’t want to see the ISM as a polical casualty of the great budget standoff of 2015. If you are opposed to the ISM based on the merits of closing it, fine, but don’t be so intellectually lazy to pick sides based on the statements of one person out of the thousands who want to see the ISM doors kept open. That’s just as ridiculous as what this guy did.
Comment by It's A Trap! Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:33 am
Sometimes, when one is confronted with the absurd, the only recourse is to mirror it.
Comment by Contraire Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:36 am
It’s hyperbole, but the museum is part of our cultural heritage, and Rauner doesn’t want to keep our cultural heritage because presumably it’s inconvenient for him.
ISIS destroys cultural heritage sites ostensibly because they contradict their worldview. So I can at least sort of see the connection.
Again, hyperbole, but with a grain of truth behind it.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:36 am
Tripple fat
“Besides their agenda poses a bigger threat to Illinois citizens than ISIS ever will.”
Really I missed the part where Rauner called for people to be massacred to appease his view of faith. Call him dumb say he is mistaken but don’t pretend right to work et all Is sonehow more of a threat then a terrorist state calling gor the massacre of innocents. Especially after the Tennessee attack.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:39 am
Albatross:
Yes social service programs are infinitely more important to an Individual’s ( and societies ) well-being than a State Museum . Tanf has drastically reduced their grants per child in the last 16 or so years..requiring recipients to do volunteer work to earn same grants(so let’s clear up any welfare queen in a Cadillac stereotype you have floating around in your mind).Social services encompass caring for elderly and hospice care at home,daycare for wrking mothers,etc. You may be part of the 1% who will never be in a position to have need of said programs. .but I dare say you are in the minority. It is the Illinois State Museum…not an Iraqi Museum housing ancient Sumerian relics. As to the academic accolades and reputation of the person who spoke…an educated men do foolish things all the time..it was foolish and ridiculously inflammatory and hurt his cause.
Comment by cez Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:40 am
There is not one once of what that wuote said that is remotely “truthful”
Heck, Rauner, to this day, says he has no social agenda. Both organizations cited function with social agenda as the rationale of their works.
Rauner is neither one of those groups, not even close, in the ball park, neighborhood, “kinda like”, “metaphorically”…
No.
Own it, eat it, move away from it, and move forward from it.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:40 am
Ugh.
There is not one ounce of what that was said that is remotely “truthful”
Apologies.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:42 am
===cdog - Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:29 am:
I disagree with Mr.Miller. This is America and his comment is logical. ===
GONG. No need to go any further with this one. Logical??? Dude, you’re out to lunch.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:44 am
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:47 am
Since the ISM is adjacent to and immediately south of the Capitol, does this make this a valuable piece of real estate?
What will become of this vacant space?
Comment by Beaner Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:48 am
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcommentphotos.com%2Fgallery%2FCommentPhotos.com_1405629647.jpg&t=554&c=C4udu_HJSO6cKA
Comment by Dirty Red Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:49 am
I don’t know who the speaker was, but Governor Rauner’s legacy regarding the Illinois Museum has already been written, regardless of outcome. When Rauner posed with children at the Museum’s day camp, he cemented his legacy as a governor disrespectful of Illinois history, Illinois children and Illinois’ future.
His legacy is that photo. Like watching the Grinch pull candy canes from the little hands of the sleeping Who children on Christmas Eve.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:52 am
===His legacy is that photo. Like watching the Grinch pull candy canes from the little hands of the sleeping Who children on Christmas Eve.===
C’mon V-Man, did you fall asleep before the end? It all turned out fine in Whoville.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:56 am
There is a lot of vacant property around the capitol, so I don’t think the ISM is necessarily valuable real estate because of its proximity.
Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:58 am
A guy, I am not a professional crafter of arguments, however I do know there is a basic syllogism which ties these issues together that is both logical and somewhat valid.
The point is the closing of the museum is short-sighted and problematic.
Sincerely, cdog Dudette
Comment by cdog Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:59 am
### Guy: C’mon V-Man, did you fall asleep before the end? It all turned out fine in Whoville. ###
It all turned out fine *the next morning*. Rauner’s heart is several sizes too small, and will let people suffer several weeks (months?) too long….
Comment by Contraire Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:06 am
There’s nothing logical, reasonable or helpful about the comparison with ISIS, but it seems extremely unlikely that those views are representative of staff at the museum.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:08 am
==cdog Dudette==
Ms. cdog, drawing a logical and direct line between ISIS and the Illinois State Museum, does not strain logic, it defeats it. There are no snipers, cells, invading force, deadly consequences or any manner or terrorist tendencies connected with the museum. However tragic people earnestly feel about the museum, and comparison to a deadly and diabolical force simply insults humanity.
You are always entitled to your opinion, as was the retired gentleman. That opinion did tremendous damage to the cause. It’s impossible for truly “logical” people to take him or his issue seriously after such an outlandish statement and comparison. It was inane.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:09 am
Contraire, last I looked Mary Lou Who was still being paid by the Comptroller. /s
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:10 am
===but it seems extremely unlikely that those views are representative of staff ===
Then top staff needs to make this known.
Now.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:12 am
As John Fugelsang says, people who resort to hyperbole are worse than Hitler.
I was at the rally yesterday. A number of the people around me were noticeably uncomfortable with Dr. Rehman’s comments. I realized that press coverage would focus on his ugly use of hyperbole. However, I still believe that the closure of the Illinois State Museum and it’s satellite facilities is wrong. I don’t believe that a single speaker’s inappropriate comments changes that.
Senator Manar’s comments were organized and clear, almost as though he had prepared his speech ahead of time. He would have had no advancd knowledge about any other speaker’s comments. It doesn’t surprise me that he didn’t plan a rebuttal section at the end of his speech.
Comment by Tibicen Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:12 am
I’ve lived in Illinois for 4 decades and raise a family here. We are an hour from Springfield. Our schools don’t organize field trips to Springfield to see the capitol or Lincoln sites, let alone a state museum. Due to budget cuts, our schools don’t even visit a cultural world heritage site that is less than 30 minutes away.
ISM made a mistake in not making their presence known before now. It’s too little, too late. Considering the limited budget dollars, I’m not inclined to support a museum that I’ve never seen in the news before this year.
Where is the argument that they bring tourism and improve local economics? Where are their efforts to be more self-sustaining and an economic engine? I’ve taken my family to visit the capitol and Lincoln sites several times. Nothing about this museum stood out to me as a “must see place”, from a visitor’s perspective.
Regarding the man’s comments, I agree that they are “not helpful”. I’d also agree that they only bring more harm to his cause.
Comment by FAIRNESS AND FAIRNESS ONLY Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:13 am
Fairness,
Great post! I’ve been to the Lincoln stuff in Springfield on multiple occasions. I didn’t even realize we had an Illinois State Museum until they posted their first item about the “poor” Indians.
I’ve been to the Texas State Museum - WOW! There’s an example of public/private partnership that built an incredible facility.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:18 am
==They put him on the dais, they’re responsible.==
Yes. It’d be different, I think, if a reporter had found the right wacky employee just hanging out in the audience to say something like this. But they put him up there, he said it, they get the heat.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:18 am
Were Dr. Reyman’s comments “over the top”? Yes. Is it understandable that in his frustration he would make a comparison to other, more extreme, cultural destruction? Given his position, probably yes. Is his hyperbole a justification for supporting the closing of the ISM. Certainly, no. I’ve met Dr. Reyman and know him to be a good guy. The over-reaction to his ill-advised statements is disturbing.
Comment by girllawyer Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:20 am
People do not think clearly when their life’s work and their livelihood is being taken away from them. People seem to lack empathy in today’s world.
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:27 am
For those bashing the ISM as substandard, you must know that it is much more than the building next to the Capitol. Even that has come a long way in the last few years. But the ISM has also done some very important research, and they continue to do so. Here’s a link to some of it…
http://www.museum.state.il.us/research/curesrch.html
Comment by Menard Guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:36 am
I think two things are becoming clear
1) The ISM is a valuable gem that should be protected and kept open, and
2) There is apparently a need to shake up the staff at ISM, as they seem to not grasp the need to adapt to lean budget times.
Comment by ILPundit Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 11:50 am
I understand why someone who’s career and lively hood are threatened. .and how one can say inflammatory statements while discussing subjects that one is passionate about.However he was the point person at microphone and I assume knew ahead of time he had that role.
Btw..I used to be in Springfield often on a regular basis for a former job I had..and my bosses would occasionally say I should visit the ISM ..that it was fun, cool,etc.I never did.To many I knew in Springfield who worked for state it was a nice resource to have and interesting place to visit.But certainly..not a huge priority or necessity in peoples lives. It’s real value may be symbolic more than anything. There are many state funded institutions and that effect state residents in far more profound ways.
Comment by cez Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:04 pm
Gee, Reyman must have taken his hyperbole lessons from Mssrs Trover and Goldberg in the Brucie Frat House…only Reyman was speaking for himself (did you not see the “retired” part) while Trover and Goldberg are supposedly public officials speaking for the Governor’s Office.
Comment by D.P.Gumby Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:05 pm
Wow! Comparing two types of cultural destruction really gets you guys going. I don’t think he intended to extend all the other goals of these various groups as a comparison to the governor, just cultural destruction. Seems to be a lot of Reductio ad absurdum going on here.
“If you don’t know where you have been, you don’t know where you are going”
Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:11 pm
I’m conjuring a vision of Vincent Price.
Comment by Keyser Soze Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:13 pm
IL Pundit -
How are they to “adapt to lean budget times” given an unconditional order to close? I believe the closure orders started long before the June announcement, since the ISM’s Southern Illinois Artisans shop was closed May 31.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:14 pm
==People do not think clearly when their life’s work and their livelihood is being taken away from them==
Indeed…which I think explains why those who make a living off the GA and Exec Branch so frequently get fits of the vapors when people gather and speak.
The respectability police are here and they want their government professionalized and profitable, or not at all!
Comment by crazybleedingheart Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:22 pm
Not making excuses (I don’t even know the guy), but anthropology and archeology are some of your more cutthroat sciences. Lots of ultra-militants there.
Comment by Cheswick Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:35 pm
No matter how ill-considered Dr. Reyman’s sound bite was, we’re talking about a side issue here. The ISM still stands to lose accreditation if it is closed. Specialized anthropological and historical research will still suffer if its collections are no longer accessible, and Illinois’ standing in the international scientific community will suffer accordingly. The ISM is more than a tourist attraction, even though its most significant work is carried on in fields that don’t make the tourist brochures, and it is deeply saddening to see it used as a political football,
Comment by olddog Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:39 pm
Rich - Since you are not allowing me to answer Mason Born and due to the fact that you opened this door- I only have one thing to say to you…. Bite me!
Comment by Triple fat Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 12:41 pm
Everyone knows we need a tax increase, and all of this is about how to get there and blame the other side or at a minimum make sure both sides protect each other. The “turn around agenda” is really not leverage because at the end of the day we must have a budget but we don’t have to have a turn around agenda. It will take a couple more elections and a reduction in the dems majority to start to move any sort of “turn around agenda”.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:07 pm
I think someone needs to tell Rauner that he won the GOP nomination and Kirk Dillard is no longer an issue.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:08 pm
Comparing Illinois history since it actually became Illinois to very ancient Persian and Asian Cultures and their respective heritages is ridiculous in and of itself. Their contrasting scope and benefits are absurdly disparate .Without the ISIS and /or Taliban reference the statement does not hold water IMO.i love opera..and would argue for it’s funding..however if I were to take a step back…and look at it objectively …I have to admit there are institutions far more important to the publics well being when funds are tight.
Comment by cez Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 1:39 pm
Hey, Scott Walker compared union protesters to ISIS. No big deal, right? He’s got Koch Krediblity.
BTW, what happens to all the stuff in that museum when it closes? Warehouse? What happens when the state doesn’t pay the warehouse rent on time? Auction and then trash?
But yes, the Reyman should have stuck to the standard Visigoth type of insult. I can still hear Rauner back in campaign season. “I love Illinois”. I guess that doesn’t include it’s past, only it’s future as an oligarchy called Rauner-Griffinsta. It’s just south of Fitzwalkerstan.
Comment by James Knell Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:00 pm
The current and former staff of the Illinois State Museum are among the most professional, competent and highly productive people I have had the pleasure of meeting. I truly value the tremendous quality and quantity of research they have produced. If the Museum passes then, yes, this would be a tragic and sad legacy for anyone to leave. And if the governor is concerned about people leaving the state, subjecting the Museum to the axe might just tip the balance for some to leave. It is that important to many of us.
Comment by vole Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:02 pm
Reyman is trying to plant an “IED” (intellectually Empty Debate) into this issue.
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:15 pm
Mr Knell, WI Gov Walker did no such thing. And, then, to put the Koch tag on your post.
So, how’s things going over at MoveOnOccupyHuff.org?
Comment by dupage dan Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:17 pm
The Illinois State Museum studies and collections history long before Illinois became Illinois. The natural history of what is now the mid-west American continent is perhaps not as sophisticated as that being destroyed by ISIS/Taliban, but is no less important.
Comment by D.P.Gumby Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 2:24 pm
Ah! The always offended public. Our society has been reduced to a co-dependent one. Always offended for somebody else.
Does anyone think Rauner would hear anything less? Seriously I think the guy is daft. Actually I’d rather they had compared him to Trump.
As far as the ISM goes? It’s dated (no pun intended) and they have done nothing to engage the public until now. Granted they will have a huge job in returning artifacts and there will most likely be law suits because they have contracts with some of the entities for which they house artifacts.
But come on folks, if Rauner let’s statements like that roll off his carhart, then it behooves us to do the same.
Comment by Carhart Bob Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:01 pm
Dear Rich,
Just a few weeks ago, you and your readers had made positive comments about how great the Illinois State Museum is for children in Springfield and throughout the state. https://capitolfax.com/2015/07/02/rauner-makes-cheery-visit-to-illinois-state-museum/
I couldn’t agree more with the comments that support the Illinois State Museum. The Illinois State Museum is a wonderful place to take your children to the Play Museum to do a science experiment or art project on the weekend, attend one of our public lectures from our researchers, and the ISM brings in $17 million in tourism dollars to Springfield.
But today, I am insulted, not just by your decision to flip sides on supporting the Illinois State Museum but because of one person’s comment at the rally was taken out of context and blown out of proportion. The grassroots effort, “Save the Illinois State Museum,” worked extremely hard to get over 600 people to the rally, provide t-shirts and posters, and line-up speakers. Some of the comments made from one of the speakers (Reyman) were opinions representative of his feelings and do not represent all opinions from Illinois State Museum employees nor all the members of the grassroots effort “Save the Illinois State Museum.”
Before you jump to conclusions about closing a Museum that is 138 years old, maybe you ought visit the Illinois State Museum and find out what a gem it really is! Please don’t help destroy this wonderful Museum or all the work that has gone into saving it. I invite you and your readers to visit the Museum to see how area children and their families enjoy their time at the Illinois State Museum.
Comment by Alex Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:07 pm
===But today, I am insulted===
Yeah, well join the club, bucko.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:09 pm
Alex,
Take a look at your web site: http://www.museum.state.il.us/ and compare it to Texas: http://www.thestoryoftexas.com/
Which one looks more inviting to you?
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:20 pm
Downstate: You can’t blame the ISM for its website. All the state sites under the governor are controlled by CMS I believe. They are all the most unprofessional and terribly designed government websites I have ever seen. I’m assuming that if the individual agencies could contract out for their own web design, the ISM’s would be wonderful.
Comment by Menard Guy Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 3:57 pm
Menard Guy,
Point taken.
Having visited the Texas Museum, it’s clear they have unlocked the private/public partnerships to really enhance the museum experience. Not sure why we can’t do the same thing here. Seems like we need to give some freedom to some of these state agencies.
I see that the ISM is free admission. Texas is paid admission - well worth the price.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 4:15 pm
~~~ Seems like we need to give some freedom to some of these state agencies. ~~~
Oh, Good Lord! How many sides can one take?
Comment by Contraire Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 4:29 pm
–Oh, Good Lord! How many sides can one take?—
Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear to you. Organizations that are on the chopping block should get proactive. Come to the state with a plan for cutting costs and increasing revenue (charge admissions). Also, look to get private dollars in as display sponsors, or entire gallery underwriters.
Simply trying to find solutions rather than just picking a side, and yelling the loudest.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 4:35 pm
I have been to ISM with my kids on more than one occasion. It is an enjoyable, interactive and educational experience and would be a loss. If you haven’t had the opportunity to go, I am sorry and hope that you will some day get a chance to go.
It is my understanding if it closes that the exhibits would be returned in some instances and perhaps turned over to other facilities in other instances, but I do not believe putting it in storage is an option.
Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 5:04 pm
Good grief!! It was hyperbole, people. The man had a microphone in front of him and he did a rant; maybe he shouldn’t have, but apparently Rich thought this was going to be a slow news day and publicized it.
As for the the comparison, shoot, I have a lot worse comparisons that I won’t (and can’t) use here about Raunerivec,
Comment by downstate commissioner Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 5:05 pm
===, but apparently Rich thought this was going to be a slow news day and publicized it.===
It was a big SJ-R story. It offended me. Deal with it.
And not one word of apology from the Museum or its supporters here. Just defensiveness.
Telling.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 5:07 pm
I sent a comment earlier that has yet to be posted here. Not sure why that is but here is what it said:
I am a current employee of the Illinois State Museum. I, too, was uncomfortable with Dr. Reyman’s comments. I am not alone. I do understand the passion and heartbreak he feels. I am troubled by the generalizations made here with regard to ISM Employees and anthropologist/archaeologists. Like most attempts to put a group in a box, both assertions are incorrect and an oversimplification. The Museum staff did not plan or authorize the rally, though we are grateful to those who attended to show their support and to the grassroots group that organized it. Let’s focus on the value of the institution and the heritage it has stewarded with remarkable success for more than 138 years.
I would also add the Museum does have a private partner that provides substantial funds to support the programs of the Museum.(Illinois State Museum Society) we have also brought literally millions of dollars in grant funding to support its research. though we don’t charge and we don’t have a flashy website we have added to the understanding of Illinois natural history, history and culture in immeasurable ways.
Comment by Current ISM anon Employee Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 5:25 pm
“In other words, do your best to be civilized and smart.” Hm. Good advice for you sir. Assessing an entire class of professionals: scientists, historians, anthropologists, curators based on the emotional statement of one man. I realize the rules of journalism tend to be relaxed in the blogosphere but I think your original statement slandering all of ISM staff (and subsequent doubling down) has distracted and diminished fruitful information flow. Too bad that.
I’m done with Capitol Fax and Rich MIller.
Comment by Last comment from me Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 5:59 pm
I also worked at the Illinois State Museum before leaving the area. The people there are so dedicated, so passionate and such a value to Illinois! They are an irreplaceable brain trust and to write off an entire institution due to a hyperbolic ill advised if not impassioned rabble rousing sound bite is an injustice. The staff work long hours beyond the 37.5 work week advocating research, procuring grants, producing symposiums, engaging other visiting institutions/dignitaries, editing scientific journals, organizing field work/schools, engaging the public etc. the list goes on and on. The majority of these $$ flow from grants NOT the State coffers and have contributed significantly to understanding the past of where Illinois has been culturally, environmentally and historically. Does this Institution really deserve to be the scapegoat for a petulant battle of political theater? Absolutely not. My time spent there created some of the fondest memories of my life because it is a gem. Please don’t let a heated debate tarnish it’s value.
Comment by Museum Researcher Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 8:33 pm
DuPage Dan, this is what Scott Walker said: “If I can take on 100,000 protesters, I can do the same across the world,” said Walker. He was talking about ISIS.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cpac-speech-scott-walker-isis/story?id=29257020
Thanks for the demonizing characterization of my news sources. It is exactly what I have come to expect of a Walker / Rauner fan.
Comment by jknell Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 9:29 pm
Current ism employee
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Regards private funding I guess I was thinking of something more substantial than the ISM society.
As an example, Illinois has a rich history as an agricultural state. An Ag exhibit sponsored by ADM or john Deere would be very cool. Similarly an exhibit on the Chicago Fire would be appropriate to be sponsored by State Farm.
in turn those firms can advertise their efforts to preserve the heritage of Illinois and maybe hosts some events there.
The museum business is a tough one. Kids are looking to be entertained and our attention spans are shorter.
Out of the Box ideas might save the ISM and the state
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Jul 22, 15 @ 10:21 pm
“Look, I get that emotions can run high at times. But if this guy is representative of the sort of staff that the museum has been hiring over the years, then maybe it ought to close.”
- Posted by Rich Miller
In that case, perhaps the Illinois legislature and the Governor’s office should be closed down for not doing their jobs. But, keep the ISM open. It’s collections are irreplaceable, unlike our current governor and state legislature.
While the ISM is closed, what is going to happen to those collections of scientific artifacts? Who is going to maintain them? Where will they go? Those thousands of herbarium specimens are perishable if they are not properly maintained. You can’t close the ISM without causing irreparable damage to the collections of this museum. Artifacts will disappear or become misplaced, or they will degrade and become unusable. This state is slipping into barbarism.
Comment by Ultimata Thursday, Jul 23, 15 @ 12:08 am
Ultimata,
Thousands of herbarium specimens? That sounds like lots of work. Just curious, in looking at the ISM staff, I count 37 people. But I really don’t see any job titles that look to include herbarium maintenance. Only one job title would even come close.
http://www.museum.state.il.us/ismsites/main/staff.html
How many people does it take?
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jul 23, 15 @ 7:49 am
Downstate -
From the same museum website, under Botany:
“The ISM botanical collections include more than 111,000 botanical specimens that are housed in the herbarium, which has one of the largest collections of Illinois flora in the state.”
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jul 23, 15 @ 12:24 pm