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* Steve Schnorf commented Friday about Phillys Wise’s golden U of I parachute…
U of I needs the best top faculty they can get. The regionals need good faculty.
On the other hand, no one needs a $500,000 a year university president, and those presidents’ salaries draw up the next couple of layers of administrators’ salaries.
We pay CFOs and Deans more than we pay the state Auditor General or Comptroller or Treasurer.
For a small one-time finder’s fee I would be happy to talent hunt for those jobs and save the universities a ton.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:12 am
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Lots of administrators, I lost track of the number of assistant/associate deans in the liberal arts college at U of I.
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:14 am
Well, that would be a good observation if U of I administrator salaries were out of sync with other state flagship administrative salaries, but otherwise, there’s no here, here.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:17 am
The Rich and Schnorf bromance continues…
Comment by Annon Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:17 am
===if U of I administrator salaries were out of sync with other state flagship administrative salaries===
It’s a national problem. Doesn’t mean we can’t address it here.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:19 am
===It’s a national problem. Doesn’t mean we can’t address it here.===
No, it just puts U of I at a distinct disadvantage in talent acquisition…
Coleman,Mary Sue PRESIDENT 603,357.00
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:21 am
I would argue that the dearth of leadership at the U of I is part of the problem. Blago ran Stukel out, and White didn’t last too long, either. The Faculty Senate went after Hogan and that was it for him.
Rich and others may not like this idea, but why not have a former legislator or Congressperson run the system? You know - someone who helped author and/or voted on legislation and policy that dictates how our higher education system and loan/grant structure works. Someone who has the connections and gusto to pick up the dang phone and make a problem disappear like magic. At this point, what can it hurt?!
Comment by Team Sleep Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:23 am
Very soon, one generation of taxpayers is going to be asked to pay for both current operations of government and “make up” for years of skipped pension payments. Illinois is in a gigantic financial hole. If elected officials are going to ask private sector workers to shoulder tax hikes and cuts to services, at minimum, the “normal” ways of doing things are going to have be challenged and, god forbid, change at all levels of government to address Illinois’ significant debt struggles.
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:25 am
The average salary for a public university president (2013-14) was $428,000 according to the Chronicle for Higher Education. Presidents of Penn State, Ohio State, Texas A&M, Washington State, Virginia Tech, etc all made more than Wise. Three dozen private university presidents made more than $1 million.
I don’t disagree that they seem extremely high but you get what you pay for as well. Personally, the high cost of college coaches (especially at Illinois) bug me a whole lot more.
Comment by 4 percent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:26 am
===at minimum, the “normal” ways of doing things are going to have be challenged and, god forbid, change at all levels of government to address Illinois’ significant debt struggles.===
There’s a detailed plan, if I ever saw one.
=== If elected officials are going to ask private sector workers to shoulder tax hikes and cuts to services…===
They’ll be asking public sector workers the same thing, dude.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:29 am
The annual compensation is one thing, the golden parachute at the end is particular galling when you consider the missteps that caused her resignation.
Comment by Norseman Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:29 am
Agreed! And how much money is wasted on expensive head-hunting firms who time and again come up with complete bozos. (Michael Hogan, anyone?) There are plenty of talented faculty members who would be willing to step up and play an administrative role–and they tend to have some knowledge of the institution.
Comment by UIC Guy Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:29 am
==No, it just puts U of I at a distinct disadvantage in talent acquisition…==
Or they just lock in their young talent at lower pay and benefits, grab a free agent when they can and hire strong management…sort of like the St. Louis Cardinals…
Significant change may present significant opportunities for Gen X and Millennials.
Universities are very slow to think outside of the box but Illinois’ financial issues may force real change over a shorter period of time.
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:29 am
Some old timers might recall a certain football coach that refused to be paid more than the governor because he didn’t think it was right.
Purdue has a former politician as president, and didn’t SIU already try that with Poshard.
Comment by Angry Republican Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:29 am
Great post Big Tent
Comment by anon Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:30 am
I find it hard to believe you couldn’t find highly qualified people to do the jobs at half the cost.
I understand there’s a national market, but I suspect it’s hyper-inflated.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:31 am
==Very soon, one generation of taxpayers is going to be asked to pay for both current operations of government and “make up” for years of skipped pension payments.== Yup, just like January 1, 2011 through December 31, 2014.
Comment by SAP Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:32 am
==They’ll be asking public sector workers the same thing, dude.==
A $500,000 severance (plus all the other benefits that the private sector doesn’t get) doesn’t seem like much of a sacrifice.
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:32 am
Angry - I would argue that Glenn Poshard did a fairly decent job as President of SIU. He put together a stellar government affairs team and was able to get a decent amount done for the school.
Comment by Team Sleep Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:32 am
===Or they just lock in their young talent at lower pay and benefits===
Just…If it was that easy bud, they’d have hired an intern already…
===Universities are very slow to think outside of the box but Illinois’ financial issues may force real change over a shorter period of time.===
Look in the mirror while you regurgitate right-wing talking points.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:32 am
Simply don’t buy this “national talent search ” nonsense. No one can prove gigantic differences in outcomes for a university based on who sits in the CEO’s chair. This sickness has led to local superintendents being paid triple what would be more than sufficient to attract excellent talent.
Comment by walker Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:33 am
===A $500,000 severance (plus all the other benefits that the private sector doesn’t get) doesn’t seem like much of a sacrifice.===
See, Rauner’s compensation, and get back to me on that.
Public sector employees pay the same taxes you do, tent-boy.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:34 am
At least none of this compares to the Breuder scandal. What a mess the College of DuPage finds itself in.
Comment by Team Sleep Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:35 am
===Simply don’t buy this “national talent search ” nonsense. No one can prove gigantic differences in outcomes for a university based on who sits in the CEO’s chair. This sickness has led to local superintendents being paid triple what would be more than sufficient to attract excellent talent.===
Walker, I respect that point of view, but it’s not just limited to Universities, or Public Education. What are we going to do, start legislating salaries? Come on.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:36 am
I read a recent study (actually a few) on the root causes of the far above inflation rates.
The first was the proliferation of “easy credit” through loan programs to give students debt that many would never have a chance or repaying based upon projected post-graduation income. This flooded higher ed with cash that they promptly found ways to spend, profligately if not prudently.
Instructional and research compensation for staff only stayed at about the inflation rate. The BIG areas where the spending skyrocketed was non-instructional staffing and administration and massive capital work of questionable value.
The failure rate of top administrators at U of I just to maintain their positions, let alone improve quality of instruction, research, and cost efficiency of the institution, speaks to the malfeasance, and in some cases corruption, in that process.
Ms Wise resigned, and should not be entitled to severance unless specifically required by contract.
I’m sure we could get an excellent replacement for Ms Wise for half the cost. The problem is that they won’t be searching for the most competent candidate. They’ll be looking for the person who will best serve the political interests of Springfield (read Chicago) for cronyism, patronage, and kicking resources to the politically connected.
Take the political corruption out of the equation, and the university could get leadership that could really move forward.
Not a chance in the world for that to happen though. No way the pols will walk away from a half billion per year in political spoils.
Comment by Arizona Bob Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:39 am
=And how much money is wasted on expensive head-hunting firms who time and again come up with complete bozos.=
Legislation has been passed strictly limiting the use of head-hunting firms.
Comment by Because I Said So.... Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:39 am
True, U of I is participating in a national trend, but that doesn’t make it right. The Senate Dems have been hammering away on this. Bill Cunningham called it a salary and benefits “arms race” in higher Ed. That gets it right. It’s the everybody-else-is-doing-it defense.
Comment by Madison Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:41 am
===No, it just puts U of I at a distinct disadvantage in talent acquisition…===
LOLOLOL
You can say that with a straight face after the miserable run of presidents that university has had?
Please.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:43 am
The University was better run when the Trustee’s were elected.
Comment by Beaner Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:44 am
==There’s a detailed plan, if I ever saw one.==
Looks like Forrest Claypool is starting to execute one at CPS.==
http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/7/71/861065/claypool-cps-budget-sacrifice
Look, the years of skipped pension payments are going to give just about everyone the shaft in this state. I think it’s better if government pro-actively addresses the problem rather than throwing up roadblocks and fighting for the status quo. When taxes spike, schools get cut and law enforcement slows down (all at the same time) these types of negative stories will only be much worse in driving public (private sector) opinion.
We all need to recognize that we’re all in the barrel together…I guess that’s a crass way of saying more shared sacrifice is better.
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:45 am
===It’s the everybody-else-is-doing-it defense.===
Yes, and this applies to private sector CEO salaries in spades.
It’s an arms race all over. Purposfully short-sighted to single out public universities, or private universities for that matter, or to unilaterally disarm the outstanding Illinois flagship during the witch hunt.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:46 am
Doesn’t rise to Brueder scandal–how do you know?The woman intentionally violated the state’s freedom of information act–and her emails suggest a very manipulative personality that would stop at nothing to get her way. Think about it–they created a third public medical school without even asking the General Assembly for approval…I do think there is a real governance issue involved here very much like college of DuPage. Let’s find out why she was really let go so quickly and why her silence was purchased.
Comment by anon Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:48 am
Do you blame college presidents,deans, and other admins when college coaches get paid what they do?
Comment by ole college life Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:49 am
There is a “smell test” that is profound. “What percent of FPL is the executive’s salary and is it reasonable?”
4200% is not reasonable in any any industry, and especially in a publicly funded institution.
There are many reasons Bernie Sanders is filling arenas. This is one of them.
Comment by cdog Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:50 am
==disarm the outstanding Illinois flagship during the witch hunt.==
Tuition spikes and student loan debt is what the U of I leadership should be focusing on. Not trying to cook up ways to bring in more wealthy Chinese students or defend terminated administrators.
Hillary Clinton to roll out $350 billion, 10-year college affordability plan: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/politics/hillary-clinton-college-affordability/index.html
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:52 am
So we have an issue with top administrators being paid large salaries (which I agree they are too much). But at the same time we also have prison guards who make over $100,000 a year by using the overtime rules to their advantage.
Not to mention the qualification and educational threshold is much higher for a university president.
Bottom line the whole system is broken.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:52 am
===You can say that with a straight face after the miserable run of presidents that university has had?===
Absolutely. Just think what they would have gotten without playing the salary game…
Oh, and LOL is so yesterday…it’s HAHA now bud, or so my kids tell me.
Hey, talk is cheap, huh. You, Schnorf and Arizona Bob should get together and start naming some names. Let me know, who you come up with.
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:54 am
And poor old Chief Illiniwek was thrown out with no severance wampum at all after years of leading us.
Comment by Publius Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:55 am
This really just comes down to priorities. What is more important for a public university, and how do you accomplish those goals? To me, the quality of the professors and education, as well as the affordability of the education for the state citizens has to be a priority. Does a highly paid President increase donations/endowments? Do they attract better professors? Do they negotiate higher appropriations from the State? If not, what do they do, and does that advance the university’s agenda?
Comment by Nickname#2 Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:59 am
From CNN money “Since 2010, nine public college leaders have crossed the $1 million mark, some more than once, according to the Chronicle. E. Gordan Gee, former president of Ohio State University and now president at West Virginia University, is the highest paid in any year of the Chronicle survey, making more than $5 million in 2013.”
The reality is that college presidents both public and private have great deals. Salaries, extra money for housing (and sometimes even the housing in ultra posh areas), cars, salary deferrals, departure bonuses etc. It is not just an Illinois problem as you can see from the quote above.
The challenge we have is how to change this culture and say no more.
Comment by illinifan Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:02 am
The salary doesn’t bother me that much but the golden parachutes are criminal.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:12 am
I have more understanding for a prison guard who makes more than $100,000 than I do for a University president who makes $500,000 with country club memberships paid for the state.
Comment by Name Withheld Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:12 am
Throw the job out there at half the salary, and more reasonable benefits and a standard severance package. I seriously doubt you’d have a hard time getting hundreds, if not thousands of qualified applicants.
U of I has no trouble attracting students. Some institutions may have to pay outlandish stupid salaries to get a name in there. We don’t have to. It’s a bunch of institutional hooey that we’ll be lost in the talent search. What a crock.
This theory could be tested very easily. Drop an ad. You’ll get plenty of takers.
Comment by A guy Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:18 am
SIUC and SIUE are both looking for Chancellors. Perhaps Mr. Schnorf should approach the SIU President directly and offer his services. Why make them come to him.
Comment by Deep South Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:30 am
This type of situation has been going on for decades.
If any attempts are made to reduce university budgets because of this you can almost count on that it will be taken out of the hides of regular faculty and staff and the top dogs will remained untouched.
Comment by Federalist Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:30 am
PS must have had a tough weekend at the race track. More testy than usual!!
Comment by anon Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:31 am
Pell grants and easy college loans opened the money pot for the education business. Educators, administrators in particular, now live in some alternative universe that does not sync well with the rest of us. It would please this U of I alum were the Governor to invite the university hotshots to his office for a reality check.
Comment by Keyser Soze Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:32 am
@Arizona Bob,
Often we do not agree but you have made several excellent points.
Comment by Federalist Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:33 am
One factor that is negative for attracting talented people to Illinois universities, colleges, and k-12 is the tier 2 pension.
Comment by DuPage Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:33 am
The Pell grant and easy-money-loans theory is just goofy.
There was a lot more grant and loan money back in the day before the state started cutting back big time on GRF to universities.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:35 am
The political chattering/patronage class whinges about 500k/yr UNIVERSITY President but says nothing about 120k prison guards with a High School diploma ! LOL ..no wonder IL is all messed up. The oh-so-in-the-know critters slithering around on the marble in Springfield could care less it seems - as long as they get theirs.
Comment by Mcleaniac Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:49 am
Spot on. Eliminate the Board of Higher Ed and let GOMB do that with about 5 or fewer people. Rauner’s flat cut won’t do it, each university has way too many administrators at too high a price. That whole culture of spending money on non-academic elites should stop. Go back to line items for each university and limit administrative salaries.
Comment by Beenthereseenthat Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:53 am
What’s with the diss on prison guards? Is that some easy gig in some people’s mind?
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 11:59 am
There is a limited pool of talented persons who have proven themselves in the big leagues. If you find someone good who is willing to be promoted to senior leadership at a substantial discount to peers and if you provide that person with a couple of years of experience, guess what often happens–the person gets lured away unless you are willing to pay competitive compensation. Turnover problem.
If you believe that there is a plentiful pool of demonstrated superstars for these positions, then why do so many universities have problems with leadership?
Comment by east central Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:00 pm
At least to some part because they hire educators to be managers. Why do you suppose hospitals stopped hiring MDs as hospital administrators and now hire hospital administrators instead? And I think educator is a noble term and a noble profession, but it isn’t management. The higher ed administrator approach to management is like a guild of 200 years ago: limit the number of people eligible to work and you will have less reason to look over your shoulder about your job and salaries will go nowhere but up.
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:07 pm
The president’s salary pulls up the salaries of the ever growing army of other administrators. As long as universities set their own prices and students (and their parents) continue to pay them, administrators will take advantage of it.
This discussion reminds me of how Wall Street and corporate leaders were protected and compensated as the economy imploded in 2008.
Comment by Sir Reel Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:12 pm
Word, then your theory must be that the near sudden nation wide rise of university salaries and tuition, far beyond that which might be attributed to normal inflation, came about by accident or happenstance. Perhaps it was due to collusion,a national wink and a nod. Maybe the five families of educators got together in Appalachia. Here’s Pauly from the Ivy League. Nonsense, these things don’t just happen. Otherwise we would all get regular double digit raises. Let’s try Occam’s Razor. The flow and use of money follows the availability of money. And, what triggered the surprising nation wide availability of money for universities? It sure wasn’t GRF from the state of Illinois.
Comment by Keyser Soze Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:20 pm
At least U of I was just ranked the nation’s top party school.
All those expensive admins sure know how to run things /s
Comment by Formerly Known As... Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:22 pm
And nobody needs a $400,000 former chancellor.
Comment by Ahoy! Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:24 pm
Email scandals, lowered academic rankings, and this
http://wgntv.com/2015/08/03/university-of-illinois-named-top-party-school-in-us/
No bueno.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:27 pm
I don’t have a problem with the salary. Some CEO’s for large charities are paid similarly, on the condition that they can fundraise, advocate and run their operations. I disagree with the parachute package. Resignations don’t deserve severance. Severance should only be paid if the employer cuts the ties, unless there is a criminal element.
Comment by FAIRNESS AND FAIRNESS ONLY Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:33 pm
KS, what I’m saying is that 30 years ago there was more grant and loan money than there is today, in addition to more GRF money. There was more money, overall.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:42 pm
Unfortunately, you see it that simple.
These universities are competitive seeking the best to lead and teach in their schools.
If we hire individuals at the low end of the salary scale — we might not attract students or faculty to join the universities.
Which will result in a decrease in paid tuition dollars and possible millions and millions of dollars in research dollars
now, if you can find a way to maintain or increase paid tuition (not subsidized) and research dollars — go for it!
I’m sure everyone will support that effort.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:45 pm
==- steve schnorf - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:07 pm:
At least to some part because they hire educators to be managers.==
Schnorf as it all backwards. Read: The Fall of the Faculty: The Rise of the All-Administrative University and Why it Matters
Universities need to return to faculty led institutions instead of little country clubs with power groups competing for federal dollars.
Comment by Liberty Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:45 pm
Much UI money comes from donors.
http://coreyrobin.com/2015/08/08/new-questions-raised-about-who-exactly-made-the-decision-to-fire-salaita/
Comment by lost in the weeds Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:52 pm
Look to Purdue for leadership in the arena of Universities.
Comment by Pete Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:55 pm
He is 100% right on. Why should Phyllis Wise make more than the President of the United States? Utterly ridiculous.
Comment by Boone's is Back Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 12:58 pm
– Look to Purdue for leadership…–
In what? Political cronyism?
Daniels went straight to Purdue from the governor’s office, with a $536,000 annual package set by the Board of Trustees he appointed.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:01 pm
“At least to some part because they hire educators to be managers. Why do you suppose hospitals stopped hiring MDs as hospital administrators and now hire hospital administrators instead? And I think educator is a noble term and a noble profession, but it isn’t management. The higher ed administrator approach to management is like a guild of 200 years ago: limit the number of people eligible to work and you will have less reason to look over your shoulder about your job and salaries will go nowhere but up.”
———–
Ok, let’s take the above comment and build on it….
Most of our 4 year state universities are basically a combination of two components:
1) A small to medium sized city.
-and-
2) A supersized unit school district.
Based upon this outlook, here’s my plan:
A. Administration:
Step 1: Identify every Village/Town/City in the State with part time/full time employees for each department (Administration; Public Works, Community Development, etc., etc.).
Step 2: Get the number/type of staff (full time/part time breakdown) by department and current population of each community.
Step 3: Develop your staffing ratio for each municipality (# of part time/full time employees by department / municipality population).
What you end up doing is take the median (50%) staffing ratio and take that times the number of active students. That’s how many part time/full time staff you get in each different area at the 4 year university. Only get so many administrators, managers, workers, etc.
You need more? You outsource. Contract employees can do the job just as well. Harsh, you bet. But we can’t afford to keep doing business the way we are. There’s just not enough money.
Do the same type of study of Unit school districts statewide.
Then apply the same principles as laid out above to the different Colleges within each university.
This whole design is going to take some serious refinement, and the howls, bleating, and crying from higher education will be absolutely deafening. But the cuts are coming, and the universities are eventually going to either be on the bus, or under the bus.
Choose wisely…….
Comment by Judgment Day (on the road) Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:01 pm
Maybe we start looking at why someone would degrade a prison guard while justifying a high salaried administrator? It’s just more- white collar folks are better and smarter so they should get perks, benefits and parachutes. Blue collar folks are simple and don’t deserve any extras. Fits perfectly with what our Governor is looking for, that’s probably why you haven’t heard his office respond to the latest round of white collar fiduciary abuses. He understands that and is willing to let “top talent” game the system while he is going around degrading those who use their backs for a living.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:06 pm
I know more than one prison guard, and one lives just two or three houses from me. They do NOT want overtime. They want positions filled. It is a budget thing: forced OT is cheaper than hiring the necessary guards.
Comment by Beaner Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:20 pm
A good top management team leading a university would be worth the high salaries we see. Unfortunately we are paying for the skills needed, not the skills possessed.
Mitch Daniels at Purdue has 30 percent of his pay at risk. To earn his total package he must improve 4 and 6 year graduation rates and limit the average debt of Purdues graduates. Latest report I saw had him earning only 88 percent of his possible pay. That means the goals are real and challenging.
There are real opportunities to improve management throughout the State. Wish we could work on them instead of squabbling over the budget.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:25 pm
Having firsthand knowledge of UIUC administration as others here do, I can second the motion on the extreme bloat of administrative positions, lack of “real management” qualifications of most of the administrators and a penchant for working a system designed to benefit them with little regard for students and taxpayers.
Comment by Nick Danger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:28 pm
“But we can’t afford to keep doing business the way we are. There’s just not enough money.”
While the UI’s annual state appropriation has continued to shrink over the past 5 years, it has experienced a large increase in grants and other funding which have led to the greatest increases in net assets/position in the history of the University. UI’s net income for each of the past five years have exceeded $300 million and approached 1/2 a billion a couple of times, see financial statements published at Auditor General website.
This increased grant and other funding also takes the taxpayer off the hook as the sponsor pays all salaries and employer benefits for each researcher and his/her staff.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:31 pm
IBHE is not needed. California got rid of their equivalent agency a few years ago and reported at a conference last week that little was lost. Add about a dozen positions at ISBE for the oversight function they do perform and cut the other 20 positions that are not needed, including the $200,000 a year Executive Director that spends most weeks traveling the country to wine and dine while adding nothing of value to the state.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:32 pm
LBM, that Daniels is a real risk taker. He made $546K instead of the max possible $555K in his “at-risk” contract.
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:36 pm
I agree these salaries, perks, benefits and parachutes appear to be out of line to many readers - and in many ways they are.
Yet, in comparison to the presidents of many of our Community Colleges ( most are probably in the $250,000+ range ) I would contend that a case could be made that, given their responsibilities, they could be underpaid when all factors are considered.
Yes there are too many administrators, and some at my alma mater have definitely underperformed. Given the responsibilities, size and stature of the institution, number of programs and many other factors the U of I has to have the very best, but lets negotiate the contracts a little better and do away with some of the perks that seem to be almost mandatory when dealing at this level.
Comment by illini Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:44 pm
===“At least to some part because they hire educators to be managers. Why do you suppose hospitals stopped hiring MDs as hospital administrators and now hire hospital administrators instead? And I think educator is a noble term and a noble profession, but it isn’t management. The higher ed administrator approach to management is like a guild of 200 years ago: limit the number of people eligible to work and you will have less reason to look over your shoulder about your job and salaries will go nowhere but up.”
———–
Ok, let’s take the above comment and build on it….
Most of our 4 year state universities are basically a combination of two components:
1) A small to medium sized city.
-and-
2) A supersized unit school district.
Based upon this outlook, here’s my plan:
A. Administration:
Step 1: Identify every Village/Town/City in the State with part time/full time employees for each department (Administration; Public Works, Community Development, etc., etc.).
Step 2: Get the number/type of staff (full time/part time breakdown) by department and current population of each community.
Step 3: Develop your staffing ratio for each municipality (# of part time/full time employees by department / municipality population).
What you end up doing is take the median (50%) staffing ratio and take that times the number of active students. That’s how many part time/full time staff you get in each different area at the 4 year university. Only get so many administrators, managers, workers, etc.
You need more? You outsource. Contract employees can do the job just as well. Harsh, you bet. But we can’t afford to keep doing business the way we are. There’s just not enough money.
Do the same type of study of Unit school districts statewide.
Then apply the same principles as laid out above to the different Colleges within each university.
This whole design is going to take some serious refinement, and the howls, bleating, and crying from higher education will be absolutely deafening. But the cuts are coming, and the universities are eventually going to either be on the bus, or under the bus.
Choose wisely……. ===
Or we could stop looking to the business community and business schools for solutions, since they have none and the ones they offer only serve to make stuff worse.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:51 pm
“While the UI’s annual state appropriation has continued to shrink over the past 5 years, it has experienced a large increase in grants and other funding which have led to the greatest increases in net assets/position in the history of the University. UI’s net income for each of the past five years have exceeded $300 million and approached 1/2 a billion a couple of times, see financial statements published at Auditor General website.
This increased grant and other funding also takes the taxpayer off the hook as the sponsor pays all salaries and employer benefits for each researcher and his/her staff.”
———–
Yes. UI-U/C places like ECE, IGB, Beckman, and others were mostly built through gifts and donations. That’s fantastic for the researchers, tech, staff, College of Engineering, and even the College of ACES (AG and Education). But those grants and gifts don’t tend to feed the Administration (or in many cases, are not supposed to).
And the state GRF monies are going to get a haircut - probably a big one. What are you going to do then? What about the following year?
And that’s assuming the economy doesn’t ’slow down’ going forward…..
Comment by Judgment Day (on the road) Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:53 pm
“Or we could stop looking to the business community and business schools for solutions, since they have none and the ones they offer only serve to make stuff worse.”
————-
Make things worse? How will you be able to tell?
Comment by Judgment Day (on the road) Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:54 pm
===A good top management team leading a university would be worth the high salaries we see. Unfortunately we are paying for the skills needed, not the skills possessed.
Mitch Daniels at Purdue has 30 percent of his pay at risk. To earn his total package he must improve 4 and 6 year graduation rates and limit the average debt of Purdues graduates. Latest report I saw had him earning only 88 percent of his possible pay. That means the goals are real and challenging.
There are real opportunities to improve management throughout the State. Wish we could work on them instead of squabbling over the budget. ===
Maybe Daniels would have had an easier time of it if he had literally any background in higher education prior to being handed the keys to a Federal Land/Sea/Space Grant Institution.
PS. Purdue actually has the 4th largest international student population, and is majority out-of-state this year, for those up in arms about UIUC’s student recruitment.
PPS. He also had a bit of a faculty and staff revolt on his hands earlier this year after he tried to severely cut already accrued time off.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 1:59 pm
“But those grants and gifts don’t tend to feed the Administration (or in many cases, are not supposed to).”
Yes they do. With the need for more and more grants, fundraising and investment due to the haircut in appropriation you need more and more administrators to chase and administrate that nonstate money. Overhead charged by university is 50% on grants which goes to cover salary and benefits for those involved.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:00 pm
“With the need for more and more grants, fundraising and investment due to the haircut in appropriation you need more and more administrators to chase and administrate that nonstate money. Overhead charged by university is 50% on grants which goes to cover salary and benefits for those involved.”
————–
I don’t think you are helping your cause. Every charity/non-profit I’ve ever seen charging 50% for ‘administrative overhead’ tends at some point to end up in a world of hurt.
Just saying….
Comment by Judgment Day (on the road) Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:05 pm
The president of UIUC is responsible for nearly 11,000 faculty and staff — 44,000 students - 647 buildings - an annual budget of nearly $2 billion — maintaining high economic standards and program — dealing with the Illinois Board of Higher Ed and the GA and the Governor - and many other things. And they need a track record of academic teaching, publishing, etc. that exceeds most professors if they are going to be able to lead faculty.
What kind of salary should such an individual be paid? I really don’t know. What would someone running a private corporation similar to that be paid?
Comment by Joe M Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:12 pm
What about Jim Edgar as interim chancellor? He’s moderate and fairly well-liked in Illinois, and would probably be good at dealing with donors.
Comment by wayward Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:13 pm
Charging 50% overhead takes care of all salaries and employer benefits portions including pensions, health insurance, dental, etc. for each person involved with research including admin. It takes the taxpayer of the hook. Grant revenue increases greatly each year and now far exceeds the state appropriation on an annual basis. It will soon be double the amount. Sponsors have absolutely no problem with the arrangement.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:15 pm
===What would someone running a private corporation similar to that be paid?===
Who cares? This is supposed to be government service.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:16 pm
==And they need a track record of academic teaching, publishing, etc. that exceeds most professors if they are going to be able to lead faculty.==
Why? Any policy reason for this or simply that it’s just the way it’s being done now and over the last 40 years…and it protects academics by limiting competition? The education sector has been at the forefront of credentialism. Maybe this practice needs to be reexamined and education jobs need to be made more easier to obtain by others with high levels of education but not the right state mandated credential[s].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credentialism_and_educational_inflation
Comment by Big Tent Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:24 pm
The salary for the top administrator is not the problem. The problem is the layers and layers and layers of associate/assistant administrators and their monster salaries. The DEms in the Illinois Senate released a report that showed that the ratio of administrators hired to faculty was on the order of 10 to 1.
Hiring a politician to run the university would be a complete, total disaster and lead to faculty leaving in droves. U of I is a research university, and researchers need to be able to do their work free of outside political pressures. That is for the good of ALL of us.
Comment by Filmmaker Professor Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:26 pm
50% overhead? that’s insane. (If it includes staff benefits, that’s not overhead — overhead is the slice off the top that goes to the institution to cover general operations and shared costs.)
Comment by Soccermom Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:29 pm
For those of you interested in how athletics are financed at the U of I, I suggest you go to here: www.loweruofituition.org
and here: https://loweruofituition.wordpress.com/athletics/
Comment by Filmmaker Professor Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:29 pm
Shared costs are picking up all benefits that would have been paid by Univesity/State. It is a large part of the 50%. Once again grant revenue is rising and sponsors keep pouring in for access to exceedingly cheaper research than they themselves could do.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:33 pm
To wayward….I like Jim Edgar but hiring on as a University president while he draws a pension of $138,000 a year may not go over too well with the general population.
Comment by illinifan Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:39 pm
Gov. Edgar already double dips with a much larger salary from UI than he ever received as a gov.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:41 pm
Yeah, he might not be able to receive a pension or a salary for any other state or university position while holding the job, but then again, Easter was probably more than eligible for a pension when he served.
Comment by wayward Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:46 pm
Many of you seem to be thinking like A Guy, “Throw the job out there at half the salary, and more reasonable benefits and a standard severance package. I seriously doubt you’d have a hard time getting hundreds, if not thousands of qualified applicants.”
If all of those so-called qualified candidates aren’t coming forward to apply for $500,000 salaried U of I-type president positions, what makes anyone think that a $250,000 salary will attract better people - and a lot more of them? I fail to see the logic, except as Rich pointed out, it is a government service position, which should attract qualified public-spirited people. But I’m not sure there are a lot of them who are qualified to be university presidents out there either.
Comment by Joe M Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 2:55 pm
I can’t help but think that qualifications for large state university presidents are similar to qualifications for Illinois governors. Public-spirited. Excellent managers. Ability to work with diverse groups. Intelligence. And many other qualifications that both positions require. In looking at those WE as voters have “hired” over the last few decades for governors doesn’t look too good either. Granted, at least we didn’t pay any of those governors $500,000 or give them $400,000 severance packages, but a number of them probably did far more damage to the image and function of the State than any university presidents have. At least not too many university presidents have ended up in jail. If hiring good public-spirited managers was easy, we would have been doing a much better job in “hiring” Illinois governors.
Comment by Joe M Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:08 pm
==Joe M - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:08 pm:
I can’t help but think that qualifications for large state university presidents are similar to qualifications for Illinois governors===
Hmmm. I don’t know, let’s see. One oversees an institution that serves 35,000- 40,000 adult students and the other oversees a bureaucracy that serves 13 million people of all ages and conditions.
Yeah, pretty much the same. (snark is an understatement here)
Comment by A guy Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:42 pm
===Lots of administrators, I lost track of the number of assistant/associate deans in the liberal arts college at U of I.
Hence why they created more vice presidents including assistants and associates.
We just called them the mini-deans.
Comment by ArchPundit Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:46 pm
====The annual compensation is one thing, the golden parachute at the end is particular galling when you consider the missteps that caused her resignation.
This. It’s one thing if she was going to go back to an active research agenda–it would take her years to get more grants and she won’t do that at this point. Realistically she’ll move on, but if she doesn’t….we are paying a ton for not much.
Comment by ArchPundit Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:49 pm
===I find it hard to believe you couldn’t find highly qualified people to do the jobs at half the cost.
I don’t think the pay is that crazy–the golden parachute yes. However, the real problem is the number of administrators who have vice associate and assistant in their titles.
I even had assistant director as my title at one point, but the point is what is the purpose of the administrator. Are they improving student life measurably? Or necessary for research? If not, then why do they exist? Or could it be done by an employee at a lower level just as well. You don’t need to be a dean to be an advisor for example.
Comment by ArchPundit Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 3:53 pm
A-guy, the point is that many of you think that Illinois can attract excellent managers (as governors or as state university presidents)at low salaries because they are public positions, and quality people will apply for them for that reason. That thinking has not worked so well with Illinois governors. There is no reason to think it will work well with state university presidents either.
Comment by Joe M Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 4:14 pm
Joe M. $250K a year isn’t a low salary. Most of these places are in locales with a lower cost of living i.e. Champaign, Charleston, Macomb, DeKalb, Bloomington, (Illinois or Indiana) where $250 goes a pretty long way.
I’d put my money on Mr. Schnorf pulling off a very credible search for a low fee that produce a series of well qualified folks at $250K.
Trends go both ways. Perhaps the idiots who drove the cost up will get smarter when they see the job could be done better for less. There are plenty of examples; just think of the schools you never hear anything about.
Comment by A guy Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 4:50 pm
===What would someone running a private corporation similar to that be paid?===
Who cares? This is supposed to be government service.
Actually it is someone should pass along the # at private colleges and NU….eye poppin’ … so the top dawg aat the biggest campus of the biggest U probably deserves the salary, but no one gets the bonus, severance and six figures to “teach”
Comment by Anonin' Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 4:54 pm
“For a small one-time finder’s fee I would be happy to talent hunt for those jobs and save the universities a ton.”
I strongly support this action.
“Yes, and this applies to private sector CEO salaries in spades.”
Correct, and it’s just as indefensible there.
Comment by Odysseus Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 5:11 pm
==I’d put my money on Mr. Schnorf pulling off a very credible search for a low fee that produce a series of well qualified folks at $250K==
A Guy and Mr. Schnorf, I would be glad to see you all be right and me being wrong. I am by no means in love with university presidents and/or their salaries. But I just don’t think it is as simple as you portray.
Comment by Joe M Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 5:51 pm
And let’s not forget that as with Wise and many others, part of the “package” includes a job for the spouse or significant other.
In this case, the U of I picked up an “Associate Vice President of Strategic Initiatives” (newly created and $200k plus) along with Phyllis and he ain’t going nowhere.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 6:23 pm
AA, did not know that. Crazy.
“Associate VP of Strategic Initiatives.”
Is that more like Assistant Regional Manager or Assistant to the Regional Manager?
Comment by Wordslinger Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 6:39 pm
The Wise salary and benefits is peanuts compared to corporate CEOs.
It’s not like corporate CEOs are any smarter, more productive or especially deserving nowadays than they were 30 or 40 years ago… It’s just that they’ve figured out how to rig the system by filling Boards of Directors with other CEOs who all scratch each others’ backs.
And yes, we pay for the radically outsized CEO compensation packages through the form of higher-priced goods, artificially lower wages for other employees, more mass layoffs and rabid offshoring and outsourcing.
So I don’t begrudge a major university president for demanding pay that is in line with her peers and yet exponentially less than she may be earning if she were in an equivalent role in the private sector.
Comment by A. Nonymous Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 6:58 pm
======What would someone running a private corporation similar to that be paid?===
Who cares? This is supposed to be government service.===
Sorry to take so long to respond. Got busy today. If I’d have spent my day responding to all the witch-hunters, nothing useful would have gotten done. But I couldn’t let this one go, and this is the point of my posts.
When SB1 was being considered, In what I thought was a rather callous response to my argument in favor of a just position regarding the payment of promised benefits, Rich stated that it was public employees “turn in the barrel”.
I saw this rant as an attempt by a journalist as attempting to determine who was next in the barrel. I point out that U of I admin salaries are not out of line with other peer universities, and Rich responds that while it’s a national problem, that’s no reason not to tackle it here in Illinois. I point out that it’s a competitive market and he tries, lamely, to point out the string of admittedly less than stellar presidents of late. To which I retort, that imagine what we would have gotten had we not competed nationally.
What got me though was his final appeal to the thought that the lure of public service ought to trump the appeal to push for higher salaries.
I would have agreed with this before SB1 and the its your turn in the barrel comment, but now Rich, don’t make me LOLOLOL.
If you’re the public servant at the poker table, and you don’t know who the mark is, … You’re it… At least according to Rich in this case. You’ve got a great blog Rich. You really don’t need to stoop to Fox News standards of stirring the pot to succeed… Or do you?
Comment by PublicServant Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 7:38 pm
Mr Schnorf- With all due respect you have only the slightest clue as to what these positions require and absolutely no idea what the available talent pool or market is like. Even if you could find someone adequate for $250k they wouldn’t be there more than three years at most. You would have a virtual revolving door! As fine an institution of higher education as the U of I system is it doesn’t set the talent market and likely never will. Also realize that much of the problem at UIUC and UIS is political. Both internal and external.
BTW I seem to recall a former Illinois Lt. Gov who became a university president. He was sure he could do the job with ease. He didn’t last long! To all of you armchair university administrators it’s much harder and demanding than it looks!
Ask Bob Kustra! I did the job for almost 20 years (university admin for 32 years total) and was ready to retire. Unfortunately I didn’t get quite the golden parachute some of these people did, but I made considerably more than $250k and I retired almost 9 years ago!
Comment by Former Provost Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 8:43 pm
==Who cares? This is supposed to be government service.==
No, it’s not ‘government service.’ The University of Illinois has a reputation as one of the top universities in the world. If the State of Illinois were to make the mistake of eliminating all funding, which it is on track to do, the University would continue on. The administrators, Chancellors or Presidents, are chosen to compete globally, and the University benefits the Illinois economy with its expertise and the education of its citizens. Yes, we have a lof of international students here, but why do you think they come? Because people here are performing a government service? Wrong.
Comment by OldIllini Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 8:44 pm
Alright FP, I also know a former Lt Governor, but it must not be the same one as you becauses this one is President of Boise State University. You made more than President Obama, but he probably couldn’t do your job. How about Bill Clinton, could he have done your job? Probably not, I suppose; no academic experience. The list could go on: Hillary Clinton, Jimmy Carter, you made more than all of them, but none of them could probably handle a high level administrative position at a top University, right? Give us a break, will you?
Comment by steve schnorf Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 9:16 pm
Mr Schnorf-Boise State was not Bob’s first stop on the learning curve. There were several interim stops along the way. He is a smart man and an agile learner and administrator but even he admits that it took him almost ten years to really learn the job. Oh, and by the way he’s making $400k as of the last time I talked to him. And that’s without perks at Boise State, which is about three rungs below UIUC. That makes him not only higher paid than me but also Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, whatever that means.
I’m sorry if you are offended. I respect your experience and expertise in your speciality within state government. However, that doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about in this area.
Comment by Former Provost Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 9:47 pm
- Team Sleep - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:23 am:
I would argue that the dearth of leadership at the U of I is part of the problem. Blago ran Stukel out, and White didn’t last too long, either. The Faculty Senate went after Hogan and that was it for him.
Don’t know enough about the Blago/Stukel relationship to comment on it, but White got caught in the “Category I” admission scandal (along with Chancellor Richard Herman; are we starting to see a pattern, folks?), and Michael Hogan’s tremendously overpaid assistant (she got $190k/year and a tenured seat in Psychology when she came here from Connecticut with Hogan) was caught falsifying some e-mails, in an attempt to get faculty to back a Hogan initiative. The last two definitely deserved to be run out of Champaign on a rail.
White has an appointment in Business, Herman has an appointment in Education, Hogan has an appointment at UIS (I’m not sure where the assistant is now parked, but I’m 99.999995% certain it ain’t in Champaign-Urbana), and I’m willing to bet that Phyllis Wise WILL NOT be teaching after her sabbatical. If she goes back to teaching (she’ll be 70 at the end of her sabbatical, with a fat pension waiting), I suspect she’ll spend time on her sabbatical looking for another university to teach at.
Comment by Lynn S, Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 12:34 am
@- 4 percent - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 10:26 am:
Personally, the high cost of college coaches (especially at Illinois) bug me a whole lot more.============
OMG, so true! But we don’t have time to go into how folks seem to think one of the major functions of the university is to provide entertainment, not education.
For such an allegedly “world-class” university, lots of folks spend more time whingeing on and on about results of football and basketball teams, when they should be asking why we aren’t creating more Fulbright and other scholars.
Comment by Lynn S, Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 12:48 am
There are some absurd rationalizations here to defend obscene salaries.
Private CEO compensation is a scandal, not a model, the result of executives packing boards with a bunch of highly compensated sycophants.
And international students ain’t going to Champaign because the chancellor is pulling down half a rock. The United States uni system remains the envy of the world, despite the politicians and boodler administrators in for the big score.
Some of you are trying to make the argument that only a small pool of academics can take on the multi-tasks of running a university. That doesn’t make sense on it’s face.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 12:49 am
- Arthur Andersen - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 6:23 pm:
And let’s not forget that as with Wise and many others, part of the “package” includes a job for the spouse or significant other.
In this case, the U of I picked up an “Associate Vice President of Strategic Initiatives” (newly created and $200k plus) along with Phyllis and he ain’t going nowhere.=================
If you’re referring to whom I think you’re referring to, AA, he was in the e-mails that got magically “found” last week. I suspect he will go to the next place our fair ex-chancellor goes to; only questions are, with what title? and what rate of pay?
http://abclocal.go.com/story?section=news/iteam&id=8536747
“As part of Wise’s contract, her partner, Richard Meisinger, was also recently hired as an associate vice president for university strategic initiatives at $190,000 a year. ”
She has always been very emphatic that he be referred to as “her partner”. Guess we weren’t supposed to know they would one day be partners in crime!
Comment by Lynn S, Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 1:46 am
A- A. Nonymous - Monday, Aug 10, 15 @ 6:58 pm:
The Wise salary and benefits is peanuts compared to corporate CEOs.==============
How many folks here are aware she was on the board at Nike, First Busey Corp. (one of the largest local banks), and at least one or two other corporations?
She makes $30k at First Busey, and I think close to $100k at Nike. Overall, the corporate directorships are providing her with a very healthy second income, in addition to the money her partner is bringing to their home that abuts the Champaign Country Club (her membership there was part of her university pay package).
Comment by Lynn S, Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 1:56 am
Top 10 highest-paid public university presidents in fiscal 2012:
1. Graham B. Spanier*, Pennsylvania State University, $2,906,271
2. Jay Gogue, Auburn University, $2,542,865
3. E. Gordon Gee, Ohio State University, $1,899,420
4. Alan G. Merten*, George Mason University, $1,869,369
5. Jo Ann M. Gora, Ball State University, $984,647
6. Mary Sue Coleman, University of Michigan, $918,783
7. Charles W. Steger, Virginia Tech, $857,749
8. Mark G. Yudof, University of California, $847,149
9. Bernard J. Machen, University of Florida, $834,562
10. Francisco G. Cigarroa, University of Texas, $815,833
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 11, 15 @ 9:13 am