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* We’ve all seen how the governor and the unions have portrayed the AFSCME “no strike” bill. But here’s a take from a Tier One targeted Senate Democrat that I thought you might be interested in…
Forby: AFSCME contract negotiations shouldn’t be politicized
The fight for employee equality advanced today when the Illinois Senate voted on two critical measures that ensure working families are given fair wages and benefits. The first measure Senate Bill 1229, which was overridden by the governor, aims to bar the American Federation of State, County and Municipal employees from striking or being locked out while a collective bargaining agreement is negotiated.
The union’s collective barging contract expired on July 1st. The Governor’s office and the state largest labor union AFSCME have yet to reach an agreement.
State Senator Gary Forby (D- Benton), who serves as the Senate’s Labor Committee Chairman, thinks the measure takes bureaucracy out of the negotiations, which will create a platform for non-politicized negotiations.
“Since Governor Rauner began his term, he has waged an all-out war against organized labor and working families,” said Forby. “It’s clear the Governor doesn’t want fair negotiations, so if we take the bureaucracy out of the negotiation process, then it gives us a clearer path to reach an agreement.”
* And from the debate…
“There is an unusual degree of hyperbole and hypocrisy about this bill,” said Sen. Don Harmon, D-Oak Park. “It does not require arbitration. Both sides can stay at the bargaining table.”
Harmon said similar arbitration has been in place for years for police, firefighters and prison guards, who are not allowed to go on strike. He said AFSCME has never invoked the arbitration provision for prison guards the union represents. […]
Sen. Dave Koehler, D-Peoria, is a former director of the Peoria Area Labor Management Council. He said the arbitration bill will actually bring the two sides closer.
“If your proposal is out of line, it has a chance of being thrown out,” he said. “It forces people to the middle.”
* More…
Cullerton said current law gives the governor “a real strong position to just impose a draconian plan” that would leave unions with no choice but to strike.
“If we have a strike, then we have trauma,” Cullerton said. “We’re not suggesting the governor can’t continue to negotiate with them, this just makes sure there is no strike.”
* Murph, however, gets the last word…
Sen. Matt Murphy, R-Palatine, said union leaders are fighting for pay and benefits, but those employees are making 80 percent more than they did 10 years ago. “Go home any of you and talk to your taxpayers about that,” he said.
“This is wrong to take the people’s one elected person out of the negotiation room and say we’re going to go to this arbitrator,” Murphy said.
“Do not override this veto,” he warned before the Senate voted.
Watch the floor debate by clicking here. The roll call is here.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:26 am
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“This is wrong to take the people’s one elected person out of the negotiation room…”
Misleading at best. He doesn’t have to leave the negotiating room, he will just have to negotiate now in good faith if the House follows through.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:36 am
Oops– I am the anonymous above
Comment by Kippax Blue Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:37 am
If I am in a union, I am very concerned that they had to use Forby to defend me.
This is a sign democrats wanted a response, but not a win.
What’s next for the union members, special bottles of “Jim Jones” Kool-Aid.
If I pay union dues and Gary Forby is my defender, I want my money back.
Comment by the Patriot Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:38 am
“employees are making 80 percent more than they did 10 years ago”
So if an employee made $50,000 in 2005, this employee is making $90,000 in 2015? Unless I’m misunderstanding or miscalculating, what Sen. Murphy said is wildly untrue.
Why is Rauner so upset about SB 1229 (beside it being an “affront” to his authority)? It forces both sides to be more reasonable. It could work against unions if their demands are excessive.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:40 am
More theater. Both sides know that in the end, whatever they decide will be paid for with a large tax increase which will primarily affect the middle class. And they are happy with that. Most of the decision-makers in the state are rich. And I’m not just talking about the guv. However, they feel obligated to scream and yell a lot, in hopes that middle class voters won’t turn on them.
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:42 am
“but those employees are making 80 percent more than they did 10 years ago”
Wait, what? A quick poll of IDR employees, not a statistical sample, but one that covers a range of job classifications comes up with an average of less than 23% salary increase over the past ten years.
Murphy needs to cite some readily available (at least to him) data to substantiate that claim. On its face, I call Senator Murphy’s claim horse-hockey. Lacking substantiation, the doorstep discussion with the taxpayers will have more to due with inaccurate invective. If you need made-up numbers to substantiate your position, Senator, maybe you need a different position.
Comment by Springfieldish Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:43 am
Rauner is all hyperbolic because this takes away his national moment. He’s channeling Walker — and hoping for a Walker-like ascendancy — and knows that by forcing the union into a strike — and then, most likely, by firing all striking workers en masse — he’s guaranteed to be touted as the second-coming of Ronald Reagan.
What I find curious — and disturbing — is Rauner’s contention at the fair that he was elected by millions and Madigan only by 17,000 — ergo, he’s at the top of the hierarchy by raw number of votes. What he doesn’t realize — and what I immediately thought when I heard Rauner make this comment — was that (a) he ran for the wrong job and (b) he profoundly misunderstood the nature of politics in a way that, perhaps, no recent governor has.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:43 am
Excuse me if I don’t take the 80% as gospel. Too many games are played and falsehoods told by this administration trying to backup their anti-union agenda. There is one group of state employees who have been suffering from a lack of pay raises, in fact a pay reduction for a couple of years, during these last 10 years. That is the Merit Comp employees. While they may be mad that the union gets raises and they don’t, I would suggest my former colleages think about what is going to happen to your group health benefits if Rauner is successful in gutting AFSCME. Not only will Rauner continue your plight without increases, you will take a dramatic hit on your health care costs.
The override is needed to curb this guy’s efforts to stick it to employees.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:43 am
Obviously, as has been pointed out by many, the governor would not be taken out of the negotiation process.
But arbitration is an incentive for both sides to negotiate in good faith and compromise, rather than gamble on an all-or-nothing deal being imposed by a third party.
The spin doctors are hilarious. If the governor hadn’t bragged about his intentions a year ago to force a strike, this legislation never would have happened.
Given his track record to date, I doubt if the governor could take the heat of a strike, but why take the chance of that chaos to feed one man’s ego?
See why his peeps try to keep the muzzle on him?
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:44 am
Police, firefighters, prison guards, all have this arrangement. The sky won’t fall if it is extended to all state employees. Rauner does not like the bill because he had plans to NOT bargain in good faith. This law is a direct result of Rauner.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:45 am
Wow! Not on same page.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:48 am
I seem to recall a bill that was being negotiated a few years ago that would have required teachers and school districts to go to binding arbitration and remove the right to strike. Who was pushing that proposal again, can’t seem to remember his name? First name started with a “B”, last name started with an “R”. Bruce something or other, maybe?
Comment by Juice Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:50 am
Six not voting seems unusually high, unless folks have checked out of Dodge for the summer….
Comment by The Historian Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:52 am
” those employees are making 80 percent more than they did 10 years ago”
That would require 7% pay increases every year. Doesn’t seem likely that happened? Is there some other benefit Sen/ Murphy is referring to?
We need honest #’s, not hyperbole.
Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:57 am
Juice, consistency doesn’t seem to be a Rauner attribute.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:00 am
To give non-strikeable unions the same power as strikeable unions just seems odd to me, especially for only four years. If this bill is such a good idea why only limit it to this Governor?
Comment by Just Me Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:00 am
I’m guessing Sen. Murphy’s numbers are for a newer employee, so the increase is due to normal inflationary raises, plus step raises, and other normal increases for newer employees as they get more experience. So not exactly the most representative figure.
Comment by Button is broke... Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:00 am
Murphy’s statement is simply false. Par for the course. His advice on how to sell the Governor’s position to the public might work. The only thing Murphy left out was Rauner’s latest that this override will be the cause of a massive tax increase.
As Harmon explained, the bill “does not require arbitration.” The Governor remains perfectly free to continue negotiating.
Comment by walker Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:02 am
Bruce,
When you spendin’ 30 bucks a vote to get elected, why didn’t ya say you were gonna be a union buster?
Not the states problem no one is listening to you when you “withheld” your basic premise to run for office.
Making a certain ex governor look more and more sane with each passing day.
Thanx,
Jack
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:06 am
If Governor Rauner doesn’t wabt a strike, and Governor Rauner says he won’t lock out workers, is voting for the override also a bits saying…
“Governor, your word isn’t very good.”?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:10 am
We will see how Forby’s constituents react when they get flyers in the mail explaining the average wages of government workers in Springfield compared to the median income of voters in Southern Illinois. Of course his party voted for the previous and current (5% & 3.75%) tax increase.
Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:12 am
@ahoy:
Perhaps the biggest industry south if “I-80″ is the Corrections Industry. Who also happen to be Union members.
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:20 am
80% more than in 2005, eh? I’ll take that raise! By my calculations, it’s more like 20-25%, depending on years of service and experience.
Comment by JJRockford Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:27 am
This was brought about because of Rauner’s extreme positions, and public statements about his desire to greatly weaken unions and his willingness to take a strike to do it. Rauner needs to understand that he is not in a vacuum. His extreme rhetoric and actions has consequnces.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:29 am
Rauner can say he won’t lock out union employees, but he can declare an impasse and the last offer on the table can be so bad that it gives AFSCME no other choice then to strike.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:30 am
@9:40 a.m.: “So if an employee made $50,000 in 2005, this employee is making $90,000 in 2015? Unless I’m misunderstanding or miscalculating, what Sen. Murphy said is wildly untrue.”
Sen. Murphy’s is a wildly inaccurate statement. To the extent that it has any truth at all, it would apply only to state employees who were in un AFSCME in 2005, but who have joined the union since then, such as the PSA1s. And most of those were removed from the union by SB 1556. So only a very small percentage of the unionized workforce today has had anywhere near that kind of salary increase.
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:31 am
… it would apply only to state employees who were not in AFSCME in 2005,…
Sorry, typo.
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:37 am
“He doesn’t have to leave the negotiating room, he will just have to negotiate now in good faith if the House follows through.”
Nonsense. If the override fails maybe AFSCME will finally begin to negotiate in good faith. Demanding 11.5% raises for janitors that currently average over $67k and retire before 60 with full pensions, demanding overtime be paid after 37.5 hours from a broke employer, and refusing to pay a dime more for health insurance would all be seen by the public as AFSCME being out of line. That’s why AFSCME is pushing SB 1229 so hard. They know they are in the wrong and a strike would fail.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:43 am
Would any of you pay the increased prices to shop at a store that paid janitors $33/hour plus massive benefits including early retirement with pension? Would you pay say 67% more to eat at a restaurant that pays their line cooks (no degree required) over $80k year? Would you let your insurance rates go up while that company was still paying time and a half for their maintenance staff after only 37.5 hours? No, you’d go to the competition.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:46 am
In 2008 I was not in the union. In 2010-2014 I was. Since 2008 my state salary has grown 34%. Divided by 8 years=4.25% annual raise. Go accountability.illinois.gov to run your own comparisons.
Comment by UNION GOP MAN Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:53 am
To the chalkboard time. If the employee receives an annual increase of 6.05% PER YEAR, then Murphy’s assessment would be correct. We need good proof of concept before we generalize.
Comment by Omay Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:53 am
@Robert, let me explain. The 11.5% is over 4 years and in these difficult times the Union wasn’t really expecting 11.5%. It’s just an opening bargaining position. If you want to sell your car you might state your selling price a little higher that what you would actually be willing to accept for your car. When you are bargaining with someone who is coming from an extreme position, who would demand thousands more out of your pocket in additional health care costs alone, you have to set your demands a little high too.
Comment by The Dude Abides Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:54 am
Robert 1st: All good points to be argued in the contract negotiation.
Nothing to do with this bill, however. It does not prevent continued negotiation.
Comment by walker Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:57 am
The Dude A- The union is still at 11.5% My assumption is they are staying there because they want the override to succeed and that will be what they submit to the “impartial” arbitrator that the bill they wrote will require.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 10:59 am
“All good points to be argued in the contract negotiation.
Nothing to do with this bill, however. It does not prevent continued negotiation.”
Nonsense. The bill that AFSCME wrote, allows AFSCME to simply stomp their feet and declare an impasse. That’s the entire point of the bill. This is the first time the person on the other side of the table wasn’t elected with AFSCME’s (taxpayers’) money, so AFSCME decided to change the rules.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:02 am
As mentioned previously the option of going to an arbitrator if the two sides can’t reach an agreement actually increases the likelihood of the two sides reaching an agreement without an arbitrator being involved. In fact, I think it’s already having an effect. I spoke to a member of the AFSCME bargaining committee last weekend. For the better part of a year the Administration has not budged from their original draconian demands on the health care benefit. In the last couple weeks, I’m told, they have finally budged. The demands were still too tough to be accepted but at least they finally softened a little. It was only because of the threat of a coming veto override that the Administration finally softened their demands a little. If the threat of override the Administration had shown no inclination to bargain in good faith. The Governor has threatened on more than one occasion to shut down the Government to break the Union and I think he means it.
Comment by The Dude Abides Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:06 am
Given the current polls on how Gov. Walker is doing in the national arena, I think Gov. Rauner may have chosen the wrong person to emulate.
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:06 am
Rauner’s right. The bill is a scam. The unions are destroying the state. I guess nothing will stop them but bankruptcy.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:07 am
Actually Robert the 1st, I do in fact shop at stores that pay their employees better wages and benefits. I go to Costco, not Walmart.
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:11 am
My guess is with the 40% tax on Cadillac plans Murphy’s 80% raise figure is probably right on the money. Why is changing AFSCME’s health care plan to something most private sector workers would be happy to get “draconian”?
Comment by Shoedoctor Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:12 am
Editorial boards from all over the state have already explained why an override is negative for the state. Outside of heavily union areas and possibly the comments section (/s), an override will not be popular.
That ==80 percent more== seems impossible.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:14 am
If Rauner’s willing to go this long — and obviously longer — without a budget, he’s willing to shut down government for as long — or longer. In other words, Rauner won’t budge on anything — anything — until he gets his way.
A strike would be devastating for state employees. Essentially, Rauner would wait it out — and still not budge. Ever. The strikers would be forced to either wait it out or quit.
I suspect Rauner is looking for the majority of strikers to simply quit. That would remove quite a few folks from the Tier 1 pension, BTW.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:14 am
==Police, firefighters, prison guards, all have this arrangement.==
They have this special arrangement for a reason. People die if those employees go on strike or get locked out.
Respectfully, there is a difference between the urgency of their duties and others.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:17 am
Illinois can’t fike for bankruptcy. Please learn.
The next, now 14 Days may be the heat needed for Rauner and especially AFSCME to strike a deal… to avoid calamity.
Why especially AFSCME?
Nothing is guaranteed, and while Madigan has a real good grasp of how to cobble 71, in many ways it shouldn’t come down to counting noses, but should be about trying to strike a deal while the cloud of uncertainty is hanging over Rauner.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:20 am
The Dude Abides- what has AFSCME budged on? When people in positions only requiring HS diploma’s are making 6 figures for jobs that pay minimum wage in private sector are asked to pay more for their health insurance, I don’t consider that a “draconian demand.”
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:20 am
Rich- juxtapose this story with the one just above on Illinois real estate tax rates. The reason our real estate taxes are so high is because the folks who control the legislature are 100 percent owned by the public sector unions and can never say no when those unions make the ask. The thought of allowing the AFSCME contract to go to binding arbitration is the kind of result which drives our real estate tax rates to the sky
Comment by Sue Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:24 am
@Robert the reason the Union is still at 11.5% is because economic proposals aren’t discussed until all the non-economic proposals are finished (unless otherwise agreed). It’s on management to make a counter proposal or simply reject the union’s 11.5% over 4 years. To date, management has not responded. They would be foolish to lower their offer without a response, that’s called negotiating against yourself.
Comment by Theo's Houseboy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:25 am
The unions are destroying the state.
Last time I checked, I didn’t have an entourage, a million dollars, nine houses, wouldn’t cooperate with the other branches of government, or do a presser with caged chickens. I know my left from right hand when asked to lift one of them. I don’t leave a trail of broken lives, businesses and elderly. I’ve sold no one a bankrupted Florida nursing home as “computer parts”.
Nope. Not me. You must have unions confused with the real culprits.
Oh - and you are a damn troll.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:26 am
@Robert the 1st
What planet are you living on and what positions are you exactly talking about? Trades? Clerical? Professional? Management?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:29 am
I could only wish I had pay rises as indicated by Senator Murphy. I could have padded my savings and retired early!
Comment by Rlh1048 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:30 am
Rauner wanted to give the power back to the taxpayers, last time I checked all of the state workers and union employees were taxpayers.
Comment by Springfield State Worker Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:31 am
@Sue
This state relies way too much on property taxes. When you consolidate units of government in the future. Things will be way more efficient. I could make the assumption that the other part of the legislature is a wholly owned subsidiary of Rauner and the people who crashed the stock market in 2008.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:31 am
Sue- Id like for you to explain how a third party (impartial) arbitrator deciding between the union and management proposals in the event of impasse will cause property taxes to go up?
In fact, please explain how this process inherently benefits the union side? If an impartial arbiter rules that the management proposal is the more reasonable (and he/she is allowed to take the states finances into account) then that is the one that is chosen. All this does is hold Rauner accountable to be reasonable in his proposals. Unless, of course, you think the states employees should be forced to accept whatever the governor thinks is fair. In which case, we just simply have a fundamental disagreement about the importance of collective bargaining.
Comment by Theo's Houseboy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:32 am
Seems to me one of the big losers in this veto override scenario are the Teamsters. They would have had more negotiating leverage with the legislation than without it.
Comment by Stones Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:35 am
“What planet are you living on and what positions are you exactly talking about?” I cited janitors. Although my favorite position (and yes, this one averages over $100k/year, janitors do not) is “stationary fireman.” A position that only exists in IL government where someone sits around and stares at a boiler, only a GED required. Oh, and they get retirement as soon as 50 because their job is “hazardous.”
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:37 am
==Respectfully, there is a difference between the urgency of their duties and others.==
FKA, I guess water & air quality, infrastructure maintenance, and child welfare don’t matter until someone calls 911.
Comment by Jocko Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:41 am
At this point if the union is so afraid of what the employer’s best final offer might be without this legislation, I can’t understand why they don’t simply and publicly say “We’ll take the Teamster’s deal”?
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:41 am
Robert- $69,456 annually is the highest salary step a janitor can earn at the state of Illinois. Your information is false.
Comment by Theo's Houseboy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:42 am
Robert, can you please site some evidence. I don’t count you as a credible source simply because you say the same thing again and again in different ways.
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:42 am
Robert the 1st @ 10:43 am == Nonsense. If the override fails maybe AFSCME will finally begin to negotiate in good faith. Demanding 11.5% raises for janitors that currently average over $67k and retire before 60 with full pensions, demanding overtime be paid after 37.5 hours from a broke employer, and refusing to pay a dime more for health insurance would all be seen by the public as AFSCME being out of line. ==
And the arbitrator would choose these proposals only if the Governor’s proposals are even more out of line. So what is your problem?
Comment by Anon. Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:43 am
“I go to Costco, not Walmart.”
If Costco employees could retire with 3% annual compounded pensions and only paid what state workers pay toward their health insurance they would be bankrupt, like any business or entity outside of government.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:43 am
This is a state in which trust in government is hovering around zero. And rightly so. We are well into a second decade of some of the worst state governance in the country. Ryan, Blago, Quinn, massive patronage and cronyism, bad fiscal decisions, misuse of public funds, pension underfunding, the list goes on. So, you could really say it doesn’t matter whether an arbitrator, friendly to labor or not, makes the decision as to how much to raise our taxes or the pols do. It won’t turn out well for the average citizen either way.
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:44 am
“$69,456 annually is the highest salary step a janitor can earn at the state of Illinois. ” Wow, they need that 11.5% raise. And my info is off the public database. I guess that overtime after 37.5 really helps to inflate that 69k huh?
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:44 am
@Robert the 1st
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So I will break it down into a smaller context so you can understand and learn something for once. Stationary fireman(s) exist in a variety of contexts including industrial plants, hospitals, and other areas that deal with steam systems, air conditioning, pressure regulating, etc. It’s a blue collar job which falls underneath the same class as an operating engineer and is a pretty demanding job.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/stationary-engineers-and-boiler-operators.htm#tab-1
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:48 am
You can argue all you want that you dislike the conditions of someone else’s employment, but what you’re really telling me is that you’re unhappy with the conditions of your own employment. SB 1229 being overridden makes sure that the governor can’t attempt to impose his will on a massive workforce, which would work to depress the middle class in our state. It’s fine if you disagree that workers aren’t worth their pay or benefits (although this is fundamentally nearly impossible to prove, as it’s just an opinion).
Comment by Theo's Houseboy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:50 am
- steve schnorf - Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:41 am:
At this point if the union is so afraid of what the employer’s best final offer might be without this legislation, I can’t understand why they don’t simply and publicly say “We’ll take the Teamster’s deal”?
I must have missed it, when was that deal on the table?
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:53 am
===$69,456 annually is the highest salary step a janitor can earn at the state of Illinois.===
What’s the average (mean) salary? Median salary?
Some janitor who cleaned up state buldings on behalf of taxpayers for 30 years gets to cap his salary at 67K, and retire with a decent pension and medical benefits. That’s not what caused Illinois fiscal problems, and personally I don’t think is too much to ask for as a janitor.
You seem to have a ton of anger at state workers? Are you a janitor in the private sector or something and are jealous you didn’t go public sector? What’s your real beef here, Robert?
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:53 am
Most of the Stationary Fireman listed work at Doc, in a prison. So they would get Security Retirement, and make more as a result. They also have the rule of 75 allowing them to retire at age 50 with 25 years of working in a prison. So you cannot lump that classification in with all state employees. Please include all information when trying to persuade others to follow down that path Robert.
Comment by Sgt_Schultz Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 11:58 am
It’s hilarious to watch anti-union right-wingers tie themselves up in knots about the horrors of taking away a union’s right to strike.
As has been pointed out, Citizen Rauner thought no-strike and arbitration was just swell when it applied to school districts.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:00 pm
Robert the 1st, offer a solution instead of offering a solution as usual. That also means turning off the TV and quit eating so much McDonalds, it may help with the amnesia and the fugue states.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:00 pm
I am correcting my post.
Robert the 1st, offer a solution instead of complaining as usual. That also means turning off the TV and quit eating so much McDonalds, it may help with the amnesia and the fugue states.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:01 pm
Robert, if that janitor has to work a six days a week, then yes, the overtime would put the annual amount really close to $100K. Or is it cheaper to hire another janitor?
Comment by Omay Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:07 pm
“offer a solution instead of complaining as usual”
Solution- let Rauner negotiation on behalf of the taxpayers. He’s not even proposing pay cuts. State workers are very well paid and have unbeatable pensions, if they have to pay more for their health insurance, so be it. Before raising taxes again it’s time for state workers to put some skin in the game.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:09 pm
“Or is it cheaper to hire another janitor?” It would be cheaper to start overtime at 40 hours a week like Rauner purposed.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:10 pm
It is so aggravating when people equate someone’s education level with their worthiness for making a decent salary. I cannot begrudge a person who works hard physical labor, with potential long term negative health affects from earning a decent living. If by age 50, you have crushed vertabrae, bad knees and chronic pain b/c you just spent the last thirty years doing hard manual labor did you not deserve your salary b/c you didn’t have a degree? Manual labor is hard and it takes a significant toll on your body, and your pay should reflect that. I guess maybe not b/c you didn’t do it on a football field? I also come from a long line of janitors who didn’t make it to age 55 b/c of the chemicals they were exposed to.
To avoid any confusion, I am a professional with a doctorate, who appreciates those who put in a hard days work, regardless of their education level.
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:17 pm
==allows AFSCME to simply stomp their feet and declare an impasse.==
…and risk an arbitrator siding with Rauner. Please articulate what the bill actually does. AFSCME’s lawyers will be screaming at it to stay at the negotiating table as long as possible.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:19 pm
==let Rauner negotiation on behalf of the taxpayers==
The no-strike-no-lockout bill does just that! Hooray!
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:22 pm
==Before raising taxes again it’s time for state workers to put some skin in the game.==
State workers pay taxes.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:23 pm
Robert the 1st: Besides, Janitors are in the Teamsters.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:24 pm
===Solution- let Rauner negotiation on behalf of the taxpayers. He’s not even proposing pay cuts. State workers are very well paid and have unbeatable pensions, if they have to pay more for their health insurance, so be it. Before raising taxes again it’s time for state workers to put some skin in the game.===
C’mon man. Robert, you still repeat the same points without acknowledging when other posters here debunk your claims.
===let Rauner negotiation on behalf of the taxpayers.===
No one is stopping him from negotiating. they are stopping him from forcing a strike in an attempt to bust state unions. Arbitrators do not just accept the union proposal as you indicate. (the only stats have seen, which Rich posted, shows that in IL arbitrators side with employer 48% of time and only 43% of the time) If you are going to say that arbitrators are just unions stooges, please provide evidence supporting that claim.
===Before raising taxes again it’s time for state workers to put some skin in the game===
They do have skin in the game. The make employee contributions to their pensions, they make less than private sector workers. That “unbeatable pension” you keep crying about is no longer on the table for new hires. (google IL Tier 2 Pension system)
But let’s for the sake of argument say that state workers don’t have enough skin in the game. Is your contention that if IL makes state workers pay 40% of their health care costs instead of 19% then IL will not need a tax increase? Show me how that math works please
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:32 pm
I keep reading about how this 11.5% raise is completely unreasonable… especially from Roberto. That’s the proposed raise over the life off the contract… 4 years. That averages out to less than the current rate of inflation, which usually hovers around 3% annually. Why should the union come off of that number?
Comment by state worker Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:35 pm
@Robert the 1st
Why don’t you put some skin in the game, look at your own personal life, fix your personal issues, and get your facts straight before you start making false pretenses about state employees. You make it sound like state employees work in paradise, which is far from the truth in most places. When the 911 operator takes your call or a firefighter puts out a fire, go ahead and tell what your saying here to them in person. Then let me know what happens. Until then, get your facts straight.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:37 pm
==anti-union right-wingers==
Hardly just ==right-wingers== who see this override for what it is https://capitolfax.com/2015/08/05/ok-lets-see-it-in-writing/
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:42 pm
Steve Schnorf
The deal the Teamsters received can’t be given to AFSCME and the other unions. The small Teamsters union that settled their contact doesn’t participate in the State health insurance program like the other unions do. This is a huge difference and honestly one of the main sticking points of the current negotiations. The administration is banking on obtaining large concessions in reference to employee health insurance (as they gave stated numerous times… About $500 million dollars worth).
Here is a variation of the question you asked … Why doesn’t the administration offer AFSCME a contract similar to the Teamsters? They instead continue to ask for concessions that would in fact greatly reduce the take home pay of state employees.
Comment by ABC123 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:54 pm
“No one is stopping him from negotiating. they are stopping him from forcing a strike” If the best paid government workers in the Midwest are willing to strike and risk their jobs over paying more towards their health insurance and overtime not starting until 40 hours, that’s their business. I don’t think we’d have trouble hiring people under Rauner’s purposed terms.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 12:54 pm
==over paying more towards their health insurance==
Robert the 1st, Rauner demanding that the state and state university employees pay 40% of the health insurance premium when they were paying 19% (and the national average is 16-18%) — and then dropping their coverage plans to 60/40 coverage — that is paying a lot more towards their health coverage.
Comment by Joe M Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:03 pm
Ok, I’ll let you all figure it out. I made $4146.00 a month in 2005 in July after 31 years, then in July of this year I started making 6581.00 a month after 40 1/2 years of service. Figure it out is that 80% more this year than in 2005?
Comment by state employee Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:03 pm
==I guess water & air quality, infrastructure maintenance, and child welfare don’t matter until someone calls 911==
Jocko, 30,000 AFSCME employees going on strike does not pose the same urgency and threat to human lives as 30,000 fire fighters or police going on strike.
If it did, then why limit the bill to only four years? And why only extend this bill to AFSCME employees rather than all state employees?
Police, firefighters and prison guards have a unique arrangement for obviously different reasons than the groundskeepers, maintenance workers or others included in this bill would.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:04 pm
@Robert the 1st
Again, tell the whole story instead of just cherry picking. You also forget to mention some of those individuals are law enforcement which are prohibited from striking, also represent state police officers in other regions, and some are in the construction trades. Furthermore, federal law overrides state law on the FLSA and it goes into many legal issues on how pay is determined by which occupation. State the whole picture and underlying facts. Also, you when a physician operates on you, make sure you tell him he is overpaid before he begins as well as everyone in the room.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:05 pm
@Formerly Known As
Because then it would be unconstitutional. Binding arbitration is taking place in other states as a result and there are even different forms there. Examples include Iowa, Colorado, Maine, New Jersey, California, Washington, etc.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:09 pm
@Formerly Known As
People give up the right to strike and it also prevents a lockout of employees. Notice there is nothing in the bill from laying individuals off, which may happen when this is implemented. Also, the bill was extended to all state employees if you read it in bargaining units.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:13 pm
Robert
If Rauner gets what he proposes (60/40 healthcare for more cost than the current healthcare) having trouble filling spots is exactly what the state will have. You suffer from the same delusion that Rauner does you assume that all state employees are overpaid highschool level Vogons (HHGG) who are all interchangeable.
Unfortunately for you, a lot of jobs in the state require advanced degrees and very technical knowledge. These folks work in fields where the current level of state benefitsis the norm and not the exception. What do you think happens when these folks pay twice as much for the minimum healthcare allowed under the law? Which coincidently costs thousands more a year if you have to use it. I’ll tell you they leave. The spots stay empty because no one wants that job or you get the worst of candidates.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:13 pm
Lets hope Madigan can get his people to over-ride Rauner’s veto. It is the only way to have a “fair” contract.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:14 pm
I had not seen the video of the floor debate before Rich linked it but Sen Radogno who is Sen Murphy’s bench mate pretty much said it all by her complete lack of attention to Sen Murphy’s speech. When not studying her cell phone she was talking to other Senators. No doubt she has been subliminally influenced by the union contributions she has taken over the years or is she just bored with all of this?
Comment by Rod Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:19 pm
Formerly Known As
I must have read a different bill because I don’t see the part that limits it to only AFSCME members.
Also, there are many jobs other than law enforcement that would cause some serious issues if they went on strike. I know most people think state employees push paper all day, but many of them don’t.
Comment by ABC123 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:22 pm
===If the best paid government workers in the Midwest are willing to strike and risk their jobs over paying more towards their health insurance and overtime not starting until 40 hours, that’s their business.===
Robert, do you even read the content rich posts? Or do you simply come her to bash state employees in the comments section.
I find it hard to believe there are posters on this site that are this ignorant. There is no way that you seriously believe that this whole fear of strike, SB 1229, veto, veto override business is about a 40 hour work week. This whole fight is about taking away Rauners ability to force a strike with an unacceptable last and final offer.
Either you don’t take the time to follow what’s actually going on, or you choose to ignore reality to make an argument that better suits your partisan agenda. Either way, I think I’m done wasting anyt more time addressing your nonsense
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:25 pm
++ I can’t understand why they don’t simply and publicly say “We’ll take the Teamster’s deal”? ++
AFSCME cannot take the Teamster’s deal because it was never offered to them.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:26 pm
Mama, Steve knows that I’m sure. His point was if they say that it puts Rauner in a corner because he would then have to offer them that deal or explain why
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:30 pm
” There is no way that you seriously believe that this whole fear of strike, SB 1229, veto, veto override business is about a 40 hour work week.”
I do read all the articles and usually most of the comments. Both of which suggest that the insurance premiums are the main point of contention in the negotiations. I just like to bring up the 37.5/40 hour overtime issue as an example of how stubborn and ridiculous AFSCME is.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:32 pm
==No doubt she has been subliminally influenced by the union contributions she has taken over the years or is she just bored with all of this? ==
Rod, no, even as conservative as she is, perhaps Sen. Radogno also found Sen. Murphy’s speech so off the wall. If I were Speaker Magigan, I would invite Sen. Murphy to give his same spiel before the House before the they takes their vote. The longer he talks with non-factual and off the wall statements, the more wavering House members will probably decide to vote against what Murphy is spewing.
Comment by Joe M Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:32 pm
ABC123 Your statement on healthcare is technically correct, of course. I’m talking about the pattern though. The administration settled that contract (according to press reports) with no increase in member contributions for health care. AFSCME would be well off with the same deal right now. It at least appears the Teamsters group accomplished that by giving up salary increases for the life of the contract.
AFSCME will be rolling in the clover if 1229 gets overridden in the House. They’ll die in the desert if it doesn’t. I would be trying something to reach an accord I could live with, even if it was far from good, rather than put all my eggs in one basket owned by the Speaker. The Governor has suggested non-stop negotiations until a solution is found. Why not take him up on it?
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:38 pm
- Frenchie Mendoza - Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:43 am:
Frenchie, I agree with you.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:40 pm
The veto override will prevent a government shutdown.
Comment by Enviro Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:41 pm
How can anyone say state workers are very well paid unless they have actually performed that exact work they have deemed as paid very well? Answer: you can’t. I personally would not want to be a janitor, but that does not mean that a janitor should not be compensated well. It is a very small pathetic world for some who decide some people are unworthy based on job titles or education level. Can you say narrow minded?
Comment by Clodhopper Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:42 pm
==The Governor has suggested non-stop negotiations until a solution is found. Why not take him up on it?==
He can’t be trusted.
Comment by Enviro Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:43 pm
Even if we ignore Rauner’s campaign rhetoric about wanting to shut Springfield down and proudly to to Illinois State workers, what Reagen did to air traffic controllers, we still have a lot of evidence that Rauner is not interested in good faith.
He has even introduced legislation (in his pension bill) that calls for eliminating collective bargaining for state employees.
https://capitolfax.com/2015/07/09/the-mother-of-all-poison-pills/
He is also publicly pushed for a property tax/CPS deal that would eliminate collective bargaining for teachers and local government employees. It is hard to take Rauner’s claim that he will bargain in good faith, when he keeps promoting legislation that would eliminate collective bargaining for public employees.
Comment by Joe M Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:46 pm
“unworthy based on job titles or education”
I’m sure most janitors work very hard. The point is many do it for $15/hour and few benefits. Education has only been brought up because that is often used or taken into account when determining one’s compensation.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:47 pm
Steve
The same people who negotiate the contracts are employee members who use their own time during negotiations. Rauner says his own employees are financial tumors but wants to exempt certain employee groups to use them against one another. Walker did the same thing in Wisconsin. Rauner hates any view point other than his own. Plus, the transfers unit he is talking about is mostly Cook County. Also, notice he said Chicago is a dictatorship and the legislature is like China and the USSR, but says he is proud to be apart of Illinois when he is from and still lives in Chicago part time. He is really making us feel good when Chicago is the most populous city in this state, the 5th largest in the nation, and the states main economic indicator.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:52 pm
Rich, why are the Republicans so afraid of this bill since there is no cost involved? It appears many people commenting here do not understand the arbitration process. There is also lack of understanding what the governor’s office is presenting to AFSCME Council 31, or what AFSCME is presenting to Rauner during negotiations. I feel AFSCME needs to do a better job informing the public.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:52 pm
*Teamsters not transfers
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:55 pm
Steve Schnorf…
I can’t speak for AFSCME, the other unions, or any of the state employees, but from what I’ve heard the state employees would be very happy with just keeping things at current levels.
I also don’t know why AFSCME wouldn’t want to negotiate around the clock for the next week or so before the House votes. It appears to me that both sides win if they can reach an agreement before that happens.
Comment by ABC123 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:58 pm
++This whole fight is about taking away Rauners ability to force a strike with an unacceptable last and final offer. ++
I totally agree with you. Plus I want to add, “unacceptable final offer” has nothing to do with pay raises.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:58 pm
==Some janitor who cleaned up state buildings on behalf of taxpayers for 30 years gets to cap his salary at 67K, and retire with a decent pension and medical benefits. That’s not what caused Illinois fiscal problems, and personally I don’t think is too much to ask for as a janitor.==
I agree, but at some point, someone has to ask if the 30-year janitor in your example is doing a proportionately better job than the 5-10 year janitor for the salary they are both paid.
If the 10-year guy can perform the job tasks at 95% of the ability as the 30-year guy, but at a much lower rate of compensation (and Tier 2 compensation package will only widen that gap even further), shouldn’t the state consider that cost?
Every day I make “bang for the buck” decisions with my own money. Shouldn’t our state do likewise? Should the state be obligated to continue employment beyond the rate of return paid for the job task?
Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:59 pm
Robert the 1st, how do you know those janitors are not educated? It does happen. So let’t just keep everyone making $15.00 an hour. Sounds like a plan.
Comment by Clodhopper Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:01 pm
Clodhopper- if the kid that mows your lawn went and got a degree would you triple his pay? No? Only that generous with state I money I see.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:12 pm
++People give up the right to strike and it also prevents a lockout of employees. Notice there is nothing in the bill from laying individuals off, which may happen when this is implemented. Also, the bill was extended to all state employees if you read it in bargaining units.++ I have no doubt Rauner will fire all state workers he deems to be un-important to running the state if SB1229 is over-ridden by both Houses. I also have no doubt that those jobs will be replaced with his people.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:13 pm
How about we all just to our own jobs first, before we start demanding that the janitors suffer?
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:19 pm
- MurMan - Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:30 pm:
Good point, but I’m not sure what AFSCME is allowed to offer at this point in the game.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:19 pm
Disappointing to see Rich give someone the ‘last word’ when they aren’t speaking the truth.
Comment by Bibe Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:20 pm
Robert: Once again you miss the point. His pay isn’t higher because he has a degree. His point is that some janitors are well educated. Sheesh.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:24 pm
Mama: The whole point of the contract is that he can’t just “fire” willy-nilly, nor can he indiscriminately lay off Union workers and employ scabs. At least not legally. And remember, with Rutan he can’t fire (or take any personnel action against) anyone because they don’t agree with him either.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:26 pm
I am a taxpayer. So you see the state’s money is partially mine. You know nothing about me. But a small clue, I do like to over tip. I am done. This is pointless and I have other things to do. And before you go all out there, I am not doing this on state time.
Comment by Clodhopper Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:30 pm
My post @ 2:30 to: Robert the 1st. Sorry..
Comment by Clodhopper Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:33 pm
- nixit71 - Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 1:59 pm:
==Some janitor who cleaned up state buildings on behalf of taxpayers for 30 years gets to cap his salary at 67K, and retire with a decent pension and medical benefits. That’s not what caused Illinois fiscal problems, and personally I don’t think is too much to ask for as a janitor.==
I agree, but at some point, someone has to ask if the 30-year janitor in your example is doing a proportionately better job than the 5-10 year janitor for the salary they are both paid.
If the 10-year guy can perform the job tasks at 95% of the ability as the 30-year guy, but at a much lower rate of compensation (and Tier 2 compensation package will only widen that gap even further), shouldn’t the state consider that cost?
Several problems with this. First, if they are union I am sure it would be a violation of the contract. If they aren’t wouldn’t that be age discrimination? So I am okay as an employee until you hire someone cheaper to replace me, my years of service and loyalty be darned? Oh and now I have to find a job at age 50?
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:36 pm
==If the 10-year guy can perform the job tasks at 95% of the ability as the 30-year guy, but at a much lower rate of compensation (and Tier 2 compensation package will only widen that gap even further), shouldn’t the state consider that cost?==
Wow, Donna Arduin is posting on Capitol Fax now!
Comment by Joe M Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 2:56 pm
===I do read all the articles and usually most of the comments.===
=== Nonsense. If the override fails maybe AFSCME will finally begin to negotiate in good faith. Demanding 11.5% raises for janitors that currently average over $67k and retire before 60 with full pensions, demanding overtime be paid after 37.5 hours from a broke employer, and refusing to pay a dime more for health insurance would all be seen by the public as AFSCME being out of line. That’s why AFSCME is pushing SB 1229 so hard. They know they are in the wrong and a strike would fail.===
===Nonsense. The bill that AFSCME wrote, allows AFSCME to simply stomp their feet and declare an impasse. That’s the entire point of the bill.===
Robert, if your first statement is true, then there is no way you can believe your second and third statements.
If you are informed, I have this to say:
I get it. You hate AFSCHME. You think they are overpaid, under talented thugs that are destroying IL. You love Rauner for trying to bust them and the political power they are allied with. This is America. You are entitled to your opinions and political ideals, but do the rest of us the courtesy of being honest about where you are coming from and what’s going on instead of trying to spoon feed us your partisan misinformation. We both know that this bill is about protecting AFSCME from Rauner’s demands that they roll back a lot of the gains they made in pay and benefits over the past decades. This bill is not about AFSCME demanding better pay and better benefits. AFSCME’s goal is to keep what they have, not to force Rauner to increase their benefits.
I don’t agree with your politics, but at least I would respect you if you were up front about the situation and just owned up to your beliefs and what Rauner is doing instead of trying to “spin” us like some fox news pundit.
If you lied about being informed, let me catch you up really quick:
1.) Out of the gate, Rauner wanted Right to Work, so he could bust all unions in IL. After months of an aggressive PR campaign, which failed to peel Democrats away from DEM GA Leadership, and it was apparent he would never get RTW through the GA, he finally dropped RTW.
2.) Rauner, under the cloak of property tax reform, then moved to local control of collective bargaining and prevailing wage requirements as his means of busting unions. That’s why GOP won’t vote for a prop tax freeze unless local control is established. Why is local control so important? So local governments can bypass the GA and vote to destroy unions.
3.) Rauner also wants to use power of the executive to bust AFSCME. He can declare an impasse in negotiations, at which point he gives his best and final contract offer to AFSCME. AFSCME then has to accept his offer or strike and wait for him to cave. All Rauner has to to do to bust AFSCME is force them to choose between; accepting a contract that strips them of many of the benefits they earned through decades of collect bargaining, or going on strike. If they strike, Rauner waits them out until rank and file AFSCME members cave because they need to eat and pay mortgages. Either way AFSCME chooses to go, the end result would be busting AFSCME and lowering the standard of living for the 38,000 state employees and their families. (I admit that this would save money on payroll costs, but there is a Keynesian economic argument to be made about whether such a policy nets the state money – alas a rant for a different day). SB 1229 simply takes the strike off the table, which stops Rauner from busting AFSCME.
There now you should be all caught up and the rest of us won’t have to hear anymore nonsense about this whole thing being some AFSCME scheme to force Rauner to pay state janitors $100,000 per year.
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:02 pm
“We both know that this bill is about protecting AFSCME from Rauner’s demands”
Yes we do. I think his demands are reasonable and if state employees don’t, they’re free to work elsewhere or strike and get the public to support them. AFSCME knows the public would not support them because Rauner’s demands are far from extreme, they’re in line with every other employer in the state. That’s why AFSCME wrote, and lobbied for SB 1229. AFSCME is a special, politically protected class and this bill proves just that.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:11 pm
Robert the 1st:
I think you are discounting the enormous impact that the Governor’s proposal on healthcare would have to employee’s paychecks. I know in my case my take home pay would go down 15% a month based on the current 60/40 proposal. And that’ doesn’t include the additional monthly costs I would have to pay getting prescriptions and going to the doctor as those costs would also be 60/40. It will destroy a lot of people financially.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:13 pm
==Rauner’s demands are far from extreme==
See my comment above and then make your goofy comment that it isn’t extreme.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:14 pm
I think Schnorf is exactly right. I have no idea why AFSCME hasn’t come out and said we’ll take the Teamsters deal. I don’t care if it has been offered or not. The Governor has publicly said (or at least his spokespeople have) that he wanted an agreement like the Teamsters. Call his bluff. Come out and accept it. That will tell everyone whether the Governor was serious or not. I don’t understand AFSCME’s negotiation stance at all. They were given an opening and they haven’t taken it.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:19 pm
***…because Rauner’s demands are far from extreme, they’re in line with every other employer in the state.***
Care to substantiate such a claim? What Rauner is proposing is the equivalent to the bronze level health care offered by ObamaCare. Is it your contention that “every other employer in the state is offering health care at that level?” If your answer is yes, you truly are trolling.
With respect to the 37.5 hours vs 40 hours issue, if you add in a week’s worth of unpaid half-hour lunches, you have 40 hours. If you want an hour long lunch, you end up working a 8.5 hour day.
Comment by Slick Willy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:26 pm
===Yes we do. I think his demands are reasonable and if state employees don’t, they’re free to work elsewhere or strike and get the public to support them.===
Robert, were you lying about being ignorant? Or were you lying about AFSCME’s motivations to try to improve your argument? From your comment it seems like it was the latter, but in your next post to me I would like you to openly state which it was or refute my position that its either or.
===AFSCME knows the public would not support them because Rauner’s demands are far from extreme, they’re in line with every other employer in the state. That’s why AFSCME wrote, and lobbied for SB 1229. AFSCME is a special, politically protected class and this bill proves just that.===
God you are salty, Robert. I get it you hate AFSCME. I think its good that they have a strong lobby and can stick up for their members. I think it would be good for IL, USA, and the middle class if all private sector workers had a strong union to lobby on their behalf.
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:29 pm
Senate Bill 1229 may be bad legislation but the Governor wanted a fight, he treats legislators like his minions (to say the least), uses name calling even after just meeting with the same folks he calls names, and uses only an adversarial style to negotiate, so all that has got him what he wanted, a fight.
If the Veto is overridden and they get to arbitration it should be an easy argument for his folks to put together; “Mr. Arbitrator the State is broke and getting worse at this time we cannot afford these proposed changes. Then put a reasonable package in front of the arbitrator. But if they get to arbitration my bet is him and his team will screw up the easy argument.
Comment by nadia Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:37 pm
By the way — I looked up the 2014 stats by Kaiser Permanente on average employee health insurance contributions — this includes big and small firms. The figure is 18%. The deductibles, out of pocket limits, etc. are in line with what Illinois state employees get. Only the private sector folks probably get their bills actually paid on time. The average private employer who provides health insurance contracts for a plan that offers much better coverage than a bronze level ACA plan. And the really good employers offer much better than just “average.” Robert seems to think that state employees, who in addition to janitors, also includes thousands of highly educated professionals, should have benefits comparable to a Dollar General. If Rauner were successful in his efforts, how in the world would Illinois be able to attract competent college professors, IT pros, civil engineers, chemists, doctors, etc.? Rauner and his rich pals want to redefine what middle class means — no retirement security, stagnant wages and lousy health insurance — for both private and public sectors. Robert maybe you ought to ask yourself why you want to help him do it.
Comment by kimocat Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 3:58 pm
I’d be happy for things to stay the way they are too, as AFSCME may be,according to some commenters. For me, that would mean-no tax increase. Leave the middle class alone and let us fight our way out of this multi-year economic slump with uncertain prospects without more hits on the Taxpayer ATM (Mayor Rahm’s term). We know our two failed political parties can’t help us.
But things won’t stay the way they are for us regular folks. Our political masters of both parties plan to raise our income taxes–a lot. The rest of it is theater. Speaking of theater,
public employee land and its labor squabbles have as much relevance to most Illinois residents’ lives as the movements of a distant planet.
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:09 pm
Cassandra:
Status quo for AFSCME does not mean no tax increase. I’m not sure how you would come to that conclusion.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:12 pm
AFSCME wants status quo, perhaps. So do I-no tax increase. AFSCME is entitled to an opinion and I’m not?
Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:15 pm
Cassandra:
I thought you meant that AFSCME getting the status quo meant no tax increase. I gotcha now.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:16 pm
A tax increase is coming whether AFSCME caves or not. Count on it.
Comment by Tournaround Agenda Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:25 pm
== So do I-no tax increase. ==
OK. Pay the previous taxes you didn’t pay for the services the State delivered to you when they shorted the pensions. Fair enough then.
Comment by sal-says Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:34 pm
@3:58 pm == to redefine what middle class means — no retirement security, stagnant wages and lousy health insurance — for both private and public sectors. ==
It looks like the goal of our governor is to lower the standard of living for the middle class to further enrich the corporate class. He is even willing to shut down the government to achieve this. Therefore the override of the governor’s veto of Senate Bill 1229 is necessary to stop a government shutdown and preserve the standard of living of the middle class…both private and public sectors.
Comment by Enviro Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 4:48 pm
For the love of Mike - stop feeding Robert the Troll.
Comment by Politix Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 5:00 pm
=AFSCME knows the public would not support them because Rauner’s demands are far from extreme, they’re in line with every other employer in the state.=
Rauner the First, What poll do you base this statement on? or is it the big mandate you think Rauner got when he modestly beat Quinn for $30 a vote? I don’t see a lot of the public here that isn’t supporting them. So why do you think you speak for the public? You do not speak for this voter. oops I mean Robert…
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 5:23 pm
Murphy is starting to make more sense to me. Maybe I should be a little concerned about that.
AFSCME and the Dems seem to be in a sort of echo chamber, while the override is widely opposed by editorial boards, including the SJ-R.
Of course, if Rauner desires compromise, he’s hiding it well.
Comment by Anon Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 5:42 pm
I think it’s a great idea for House members to override Rauner’s veto. What kind of manager wants an environment in which workers are focusing on strike preparation? Overriding SB 1229 could chill things out. It would be good for the state to not have the distraction of a possible strike/lockout, and for workers to not worry as much about their livelihoods.
We have chaos enough with the budget battle. Why add to it when we could avoid it?
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 6:01 pm
I wouldn’t put too much stock in the fact that the Governor “negotiated” a contract with a Teamster’s union of about 300 workers that work for the State. The Teamsters have been known to do sweetheart contracts for their smaller and fringe unions. They are mainly interested in collecting dues, without doing any work for the employees in such situations. I’ve seen firsthand such sweetheart contracts by the Teamsters.
“A sweetheart contract is a contract made through collusion between management and labor representatives which contains terms beneficial to management and unfavorable to union workers. It is also referred to as a “sweetheart agreement”. It is an agreement suiting some but not others arrived at secretly to benefit some at the expense of the rest, especially an industrial agreement between union and management representatives that is not in the workers’ best interest.”
Comment by Joe M Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 6:07 pm
Senator Murphy raises a valid point on the 40% tax on cadillac health plans that Govt. workers have.
This was approved by not a single republican vote in Washington. Who is supposed to pay this tax? The worker or the state taxpayer? Isn’t it logical that national democrats have forced a benfit reduction on state workers by virtue of this tax?
Comment by Shoedoctor Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 6:49 pm
I think anyone saying Rauner’s demands are reasonable need to calculate what 40% of their own health insurance would be, as well as 40% of every doctor’s bill. Because the state, in many cases, leads the way on pay and benefits for many types of jobs (as it should be, in my opinion). If they are paying that for their health insurance, what stops your employer for deciding “if it’s good enough for those unionized, overpaid fat cat wealthy janitors, it’s good enough for our employees!”
If my health insurance went up to 40%, for just me alone it would cost almost $450 a month. Now factor in that if I have to go in for even a minor surgery, I’m walking away with a bill in 5 figures at LEAST. So before anyone thinks that’s reasonable, go ahead and imagine it happening to you first.
Comment by Theo's Houseboy Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 7:15 pm
Shoe, it’s fairly hard to be a worker without being a taxpayer
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 7:20 pm
“This was approved by not a single republican vote in Washington. ”
Do you not understand how government works?
Comment by Politix Thursday, Aug 20, 15 @ 9:52 pm
I am for whatever brings workers and taxpayers the most possible reasonable deal. The problem in my opinion is that Rauner keeps attacking union rights. He just won’t get the message that Illinois refuses to be an anti-union state like its neighbors. That unfortunately requires more legislative action to fend off his attacks.
Comment by Grandson of Man Friday, Aug 21, 15 @ 8:15 am
Thought some of you might want to know–about twenty minutes ago I received a robo call from Rauner’s office, attacking SB 1229 I called my rep
to let him know how frustrating it is that this Governor apparently does not want to sat down with ASCME and legislators to discuss this bill
Comment by Earl Shumaker Friday, Aug 21, 15 @ 12:22 pm