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* Sun-Times…
The only Democratic no-show on Wednesday was state Rep. Ken Dunkin, D-Chicago. State Rep. Jack Franks, D-Marengo, voted “present.” And Rep. Scott Drury, D- Highwood, was the lone Democratic “no” vote. […]
Madigan said the two other Democrats who didn’t support the bill did so because Dunkin’s absence left an opening.
But that’s not the case, Drury said. He said he researched the issue and consulted with labor experts and decided the long-term implications of the measure were too great.
“I came to the conclusion that this bill was bad policy for labor,” he said Wednesday evening. “The right to strike is sacrosanct.”
“In looking at this bill, whatever short term benefits there may be toward the negotiations today there is a hefty price to pay, which is giving up the right to strike,” he said.
* Reboot…
This year, Drury voted for the labor-backed legislation initially, but dug into the topic as the rhetoric intensified, researching it like the former assistant federal prosecutor he is. Drury said he consulted with expert labor law professors at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cornell University and the University of Illinois.
First, he said he learned that Rauner’s claims that arbitration results in higher wages were false. Since the 1970s, nonpartisan academic research shows wages achieved through arbitration and those resulting from collective bargaining are about the same. […]
At one point, he said, he asked a teachers’ union member if they would sacrifice their right to strike if the proposal were amended and teachers were included in it and the answer back was a swift, “Absolutely not.” […]
And while Madigan told reporters state Rep. Ken Dunkin of Chicago’s unexcused absence was to blame for the bill’s failure because it gave other Democrats an excuse to peel off the union plan, Drury tells a different story.
He might have told a House Democratic staffer he still was doing his research, but Drury said he never indicated how he’d vote and never talked to the Speaker about how he might vote.
* NW Herald…
Franks said he voted present because he couldn’t agree with either side on the matter – he did not vote on the bill when it first came to the House, either. He said he worked “furiously” to convince Rauner and AFSCME to come to a compromise.
“I didn’t support the override, or either side. I wanted these guys to work it out,” Franks said after the vote.
* And it’s not all about the Democrats, either. Erickson…
The 68-34 vote was a tough one for some Republicans, many of whom represent areas with large union voter blocs.
State Rep. Terri Bryant, R-Murphysboro, was in the chamber but did not cast a vote. She is a former member of AFSCME.
State Reps. Tim Butler and Raymond Poe, both Springfield Republicans with large state worker constituencies, voted “present.”
Not casting a vote is just plain ridiculous. I mean, the constant “Present” votes are bad enough, but pick a lane, already. Sheesh.
* Kasich…
“Had Mister Dunkin been here there would have been 71 Democrats voting for it,” said Madigan. “He should have been here today, voting on this bill for labor peace. Like all members of the General Assembly he makes his own decisions.”
He declined to say whether Dunkin would lose his committee chairmanship as a result of his absence.
“Look, I’m not going to go there,” he said.
* But…
It wasn’t the first time Dunkin, a 13-year veteran lawmaker, was absent for a high-profile vote. In 2009, Dunkin missed the impeachment of then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich. The lawmaker, who was a Blagojevich ally, was on a cruise in the Caribbean, according to reports at the time.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 9:56 am
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Could it be that Madigan’so long held democrat veto proof super majority is cracking? Hummm….
Comment by Time for reality Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:00 am
that says it all
Had Mister Dunkin been here there would have been 71 Democrats voting for it,” said Madigan. “He should have been here today, voting on this bill for labor peace. Like all members of the General Assembly he makes his own decisions.”
Comment by foster brooks Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:00 am
Reboot! Why did you have to mention that Drury is a former assistant federal prosecutor! AARGH!
Comment by Crook County Dog Catcher Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:01 am
Pharaoh Bruce Pharaoh Mike
please don’t push us out on strike.
Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:02 am
Drury apparently missed the sunset part despite how much Durkin harped on it.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:03 am
Remember this is Springfield and MJM CONTROLS everything here. Had MJM wanted this bill to pass it would have passed. So MJM let Rauner win one, now let’s get on with governing, is a budget settlement somewhere close? Testestrone is an overpowering chemical.
Comment by the old man Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:06 am
These three would give their house keys to an arsonist.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:07 am
Rep. Bryant will get hammered for not taking a vote. But even in a presidential year, who are the Dems going to run against her?
I don’t get the present votes, either. Just vote yes or no. Or just don’t vote.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:07 am
===Could it be that Madigan’so long held democrat veto proof super majority is cracking? Hummm….===
Speaker Madigan requires 2 votes, two votes only;
Madigan for Speaker, House Rules.
It was Leader Durkin and the legislators he controls that can’t vote as the wish.
Are you so ill-informed on purpose, or is being a lemming something that comes natural to you?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:08 am
I don’t think Dunkin’s absence is as flip as some commenters have made it out to be. Dunkin knows one impact of the absence will be to cause Madigan’s leadership to be examined more closely — something that rarely occurs. Members of the black caucus who have not “bought into” Madigan’s leadership have special license to be more vocal. What will be all “on him” is this potential opening of Pandora’s Box.
Comment by chad Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:09 am
That makes two very public losses in two months for Madigan.
The GA pay issue was an unforced error, and this is the first time I can remember Madigan picking such a public fight that he lost. He was wrong to pick this fight, and he was wrong about his count from the first day when he claimed he had the votes through the last day when he claimed he would have had the votes if Dunkin was there.
Madigan either really is losing his touch or he has met his match, which was bound to happen sooner or later.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:09 am
Like all members he makes his own decision. Way to knock it out of the park after yesterday’s hardball demand
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:11 am
I’m tired of my elected representation not voting. I saw how many NV were in the house yesterday and it was ridiculous. No vote to me means you are not there. You have to choose a side people. It makes me very unhappy that my district is under-represented in the Capital. I heard that my new state senator gets $4000 from Rauner every time he sits on the fence. Isn’t this corrupt? If you’re not smart enough to read a bill and make a decision, don’t bother to run for public office.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:13 am
I still think a fair trade would be Drury for Ives.
They both could use a lil “other side of the coin” in their political careers.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:14 am
IF and I say IF
every representative was present and cast a vote based solely inline with the wishes of their district constituents they represent, just yea or nay. It still would not have passed. There are in my opinion, enough districts that have had enough of the big unions greed year after year. If you look at it in a vacuum and quit playing buddy politics, you might be able to see my point.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:16 am
Chad - that’s actually a really good point. I’m more in tune with the Senate side, so I don’t know much about House ops & politics. I’m guessing that Speaker Madigan & Rep. Dunkin don’t have the best relationship.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:17 am
Dunkin: Last to stick with Blago, first to join Rauner. $ays it all.
Drury: no profile in courage. His this-bill-really-hurts-unions defense allows him to have it both ways. And if that’s what he really believes why wasn’t he saying it before Dunkin no-showed? A convenient after the fact excuse.
Franks: the fact he didnt announce his “present” vote ahead of time indicates he, like Drury, was watching the roll.
I think Madigan is right. If Dunkin’s there, this gets 71.
Comment by Frank Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:17 am
FKA, I don’t think Speaker Madigan was wrong about his count; I think he was bluffing all along, and was called on it.
Comment by thunderspirit Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:17 am
Rauner won, but it also looks like he lost the “Madigan and the legislators he controls” tool.
Just kidding. Like he’ll ever stop using that old chestnut.
Comment by Served Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:18 am
==That makes two very public losses in two months for Madigan==
3 for the family if you include the court battle over pay for State Workers
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:18 am
“As a former assistant federal prosecutor, I feel as though it is only proper for me to inform you that I was a former assistant federal prosecutor.”
“Also, did I mention I was a former assistant federal prosecutor?”
Comment by Under Influenced Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:20 am
Allen D - “Big unions greed”? Can you give specific examples where AFSCME has big union greed. I mean I have seen modest COLA over the years.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:20 am
I wonder, will we still continue to hear about “Madigan and the legislators he controls” or if there’ll be a more accurate description of the situation from Team Rauner? Can we mark this as the point in time that “labor friendly Republican legislators” were reduced to a population of 1 in Illinois? Will we now refer to anyone who isn’t elected as “unelected” or does that only apply when it applies to a concept we disagree with? For example, would we call the head of an agency an “unelected agency director”?
To the post, any combination of Democrats and Republicans listening to folks in their district, totaling 3, would have been sufficient. Had they been short by one, there’d be only one person to blame, but instead they were short by 3. Math is hard, but with more episodes of Sesame Street there are more learning opportunities for those that are willing to learn.
Comment by AC Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:20 am
The labor vote aside, Dunkin SHOULD have been in the chamber. All of the members knew they would be voting on important bills, including the child care issue.
I seriously doubt Madigan or his staff would have let Golar or Monique Davis leave their hospital beds if they had known Dunkin was going to be a no show.
Comment by ugh Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:21 am
Team S: House Members only speak of Madigan’s potential difficulties in very hushed, confidential conversations — if at all. Dunkin knew his action would rip open a rash of more-open conversations questioning his leadership. Nothing drastic is likely to happen, but continued wearing can have an impact.
Comment by chad Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:23 am
The speaker played the GOP into thinking they didn’t have to participate
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:23 am
== Drury apparently missed the sunset part despite how much Durkin harped on it. ==
== “The right to strike is sacrosanct.” ==
If he feels that way, then something is sacrosanct, a three year sunset doesn’t change that.
Comment by OneMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:23 am
Where’s Columbo when you need him, uhh…just one more thing….
Comment by Republicrat Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:23 am
=== Dunkin knew his action would rip open a rash of more-open conversations questioning his leadership===
I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Seriously.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:24 am
@ow:
Agreed….Durkin and the legislators he controls.
I find it hard to believe that the Union cops, firefighters, teachers, and Prison Workers had their voices included in the vote yesterday.
Downstate the Prisons are a HUGE industry and they are well paying, lucrative careers. And union.
Well said.
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:25 am
OneMan - so perhaps sacrosanctness has a shelf live of only 3.5 years?!
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:26 am
–rash of more-open conversations questioning his leadership –
If not intended, it certainly has had the effect.
Comment by chad Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:27 am
So ‘labor peace’ is the euphemism? A “no” vote was a vote to support the collective bargaining process.
That’s all the GOP Reps will need to say to defend their votes. Why would any union want to give up its right to strike? The suburban Dems who voted for the override will be in deep doodoo next year.
Comment by Formerpol Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:31 am
==The 68-34 vote was a tough one for some Republicans, many of whom represent areas with large union voter blocs.==
The state is overwhelmingly non-union…perhaps 80/20. My area, like most, is overwhelmingly non-union. Even when you account for the folks who utilize AFSCME state services in my area, the union and those service consumers are still outnumbered. Yet both my State Senator and Rep voted for SB 1229.
Why do we hold our elected officials to different standards? Why are politicians in “large union voter blocs” expected to be pro-union yet my state reps don’t vote in the best interest of the majority in their districts?
Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
To the nine members who voted “present” and seven who took a walk….
What… would you say… you do here?
Of course a “present” or an NV is the same as a “no” vote. There’s no cover in the real world.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
I wonder why Madigan was quoted in the media last week that he thought the votes were there to override? He rarely, if ever, calls a vote that he really wants passed, and doesn’t have the votes. Given the Speaker’s long standing head knocking with AFSCME…Did he really, really, want to override the Governor’s veto?
Comment by Louis Howe Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:32 am
Drury really is tedious. Does he think ANYBODY buys into that nonsense?
For someone with endless ego and ambition, he has guaranteed himself ugly, expensive primaries.
Comment by Blago's Luxurious Grey Mane Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:33 am
Speculation is interesting but we won’t ever know what really happened will we..
Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:36 am
What a great day for Republicans in Illinois… nobody who works for a living gets raises for 4 years just as Chicago is forced to raise property taxes. Enjoy your really expensive wine. History shows you will not always be so comfortable.
Comment by jknell Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:37 am
=big unions greed year after year=
Do you think any districts have had enough of Big Corporate or Wall Street greed?
Just asking……
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:37 am
==What… would you say… you do here?==
I would suspect there are plenty of Tom Smykowski’s roaming Springfield.
Comment by nixit71 Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:38 am
Actions speak louder than words
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:39 am
It’s not all on Dunkin - but it’s looks like it would be a lot easier to primary him than Franks, Drury or Poe, Butler or Bryant. And missing the childcare vote would hurt him badly in his district.
Comment by Century Club Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:41 am
@the old man, 10:06: “Had MJM wanted this bill to pass it would have passed.”
Look, I’m not one for betting against the Speaker, but in his long career, he’s known defeat more than once. He isn’t all-powerful. Get over it.
Comment by In the Middle Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:42 am
“I came to the conclusion that this bill was bad policy for labor.”
And that’s why every enemy of organized labor opposed the bill?
Drury’s explanation doesn’t pass the laugh test.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:42 am
Drury says the bill is bad policy for labor, and Drury is an honourable man.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:42 am
there’s a lot I don’t understand about this. Doesn’t arbitration ensure both sides negotiate in good faith? Seems the current set up is tilted heavily toward the administration. Take my last offer or kill yourself with a strike.
Comment by Johnny Pyle Driver Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:43 am
Drury had the analysis right but the vote wasn’t about the substance of the bill. It was Rauner vs AFSCME. Not sure how much Drury values AFSCME’s assistance. Regardless he lost some yesterday.
Comment by nadia Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:44 am
So the house isn’t scheduled to convene again until the 24th so we now can probably safely say it’s not going to be this month that we get a budget.
Comment by Strangerthings Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:44 am
JS Mill,
The difference is, that voters view public employees different, because of the ‘I pay your salary thing’, it’s the same viewpoint that used to get when ComEd guys were sleeping in their trucks on the news while a UPS guy asleep in his wasn’t news.
I think AFSCME and public employee unions in general have a public perception issue. Complain all you want about the why on that, but that doesn’t help you fix it and I think the ‘protecting the middle class’ doesn’t work IMHO.
Comment by OneMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:48 am
I voted for Poe every election, as well as contributed to his campaign, he will not get my vote or contribution. Have the guts to stick up for your voters.
Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:54 am
A victory for Rauner, yes. But a Pyrrhic victory. Rauner wins a news cycle, some bragging points, but has done nothing to actually advance past the stalemate. This was a win that doesn’t actually have an impact on the “elephant” in the room.
The fact remains that the state is currently spending at a $6 billion deficit level, and because so much is court ordered, the Governor is without any tools to manage the deficit bleeding. You run any machine that hard too long, its going to fall apart — and the Governor will be wearing the jacket for that as it happens.
In addition, he’s adding more GOP members to the target column every week.
At the end of the day, it is the Governor who has the responsibility to build a governing coalition with the General Assembly. Right now, he’s locked down a super minority. Until he figures out he needs a majority — which will require Democrats — the long game outcome for him looks very ugly.
Comment by ILPundit Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:54 am
I agree, its not all on Dunkin. But I’m blaming him anyway because he is such a tool.
Comment by ILPundit Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:56 am
Veto overrides are hard on purpose. It’s a tough mountain to climb, getting 71 of 71 Democrats to vote for an override. It is set up that way, so that we have more stability in governance. It was reported yesterday that President Obama got his override-proof number for the Iran nuclear deal, the 34th senator.
If there were as many Republicans who voted for the override as Democrats who didn’t, it would have succeeded. When looking at yesterday’s vote and the right to work vote earlier this year, Republicans are not with organized labor.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:00 am
@one man:
With the large amounts of Corporate Welfare that News Corp Inc, JPMorgan Chase, Exxon/Mobil, and GE ( to name a few) receive I’m also subsidizing their salaries.
They have some Public Percption Issues in my book as they do not support the Middle Class and receive inordinate amounts of Government Entitlements.
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:01 am
Close friend of mine retired from a union job making $90,000 in retirement plus free health insurance. This was not a professional job; high school diploma. They worked it out so they worked 16 hours a day at the prison as often as possible the last few years they worked. This was all counted towards their retirement. He makes more in retirement than his base pay was……and people wonder why the union has such a bad rap……get real….this is one reason.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:07 am
===They worked it out so they worked 16 hours a day at the prison as often as possible the last few years they worked.===
Hmm.
Prison.
Why didn’t you go work in the prison… with your close friend?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:09 am
Anonynous
That is another reason that I brought up a month or so ago too. This is just greed at its finest and this should not be allowed, I have seen it in CMS too with past retirements it is ludicrous. This is just plain stealing from the taxpayers. Just my Opinion.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:12 am
So, it’s bad that somebody made $90,000 a year working 16 hour days? How have we deluded ourselves to this point? Why do we rail against the middle class worker making middle class wages while Diana Rauner takes a salary and fat cats pay 15% on what they bring home? All part of the long con I guess. If I’m miserable, you should be too. Nevermind the man behind the curtain
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:13 am
===Had MJM wanted this bill to pass it would have passed===
Another fan of black and white cartoons emerges from the shadows.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:13 am
@anonymous 11:07
Jealous much?
Comment by Politix Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:16 am
Anonamous 10:42. Beautiful. Shame Brutus, and hail Marc Antony and Caesar!
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:16 am
From Rep Chris Welch via facebook:
Maze Jackson while I applaud your authentic campaign to help black people, I completely, totally 100 percent disagree with you that missing yesterday was the way to do it. There was a lot in it for black people yesterday. Blacks, whites, and Hispanics will suffer as the result of the bills that failed yesterday. SB570, the child care bill, failed by one vote. Day care centers are closing every day. Parents are having to choose to quit or be fired from their jobs because of not being able to afford daycare. Many of those parents are black. In a few days, we will celebrate Labor Day. Instead of honoring labor yesterday, we disrespected it. We gave a man who campaigned against labor and who openly said in August of 2014 that he will layoff mass public sector employees the power to do just that. Now, with that power, you can bet he will use it. Many of those state employees are black. Many of them live in our districts. We failed them yesterday. Blacks, whites, Hispanics and children lost yesterday. Working families lost yesterday. Legislators who were sick came from their hospital beds. Some changed vacation plans to be there. As for the two democratic white legislators who voted present on SB1229 Maze, you know all politics is local. Why expose themselves in their districts if the bill is gonna fail? I agree with Sen. Toi W. Hutchinson. If that’s the principled position of the legislator, show up and vote no. Maze, Black people lost yesterday. We all did. We failed working families all across Illinois.
Comment by sideline watcher Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:17 am
===They worked it out so they worked 16 hours a day at the prison as often as possible the last few years they worked===
And then you make it sound like working at a state prison for 16 hours a day is some sort of vacation.
Get a clue, dude.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:20 am
@Tie for Reality: That’s two comments already today that reflect a weak grasp of “reality.” Madigan rarely has ever had a usable supermajority. On paper yes, in practice no. This is not a new thing. Better to listen and learn a bit, before jumping right to the “clever” insight.
Comment by walker Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:25 am
And I find it hard to believe that a Republican representative…..represented his Union Prison Workers best interest yesterday by voting present.
And if any of those Union workers voted for Union Bustin Bruce….you got what you deserve.
Comment by Jack Stephens Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:27 am
“Time for Reality” above, sorry
Comment by walker Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:28 am
Some of these bills might not have been vetoed or might have better shots at overrides if some GOP input was included in the first place.
As Sling says, a Present, or a NV was pretty equal to a “No” vote on at least one bill. There were plenty of Democrats who could equally be accused of “not voting their districts” as if everyone who lives in a 105,000 person district is of one mind. If you’re going to bet that big, you better be more than sure that you’re holding the hand that’s nearly impossible to beat. In retrospect, while the vote was close, there were never 70 votes in hand, let alone 71.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:29 am
– Some of these bills might not have been vetoed…… If some GOP input had been included in the first place.–
For example?
Just kidding. I'’m certain your comment is absolute nonsense based on nothing.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:37 am
Both sides lose battles along the way; what only matters to both sides is who wins the war—–and that will be answered with the final results of the 2016 elections.
Comment by Buzzie Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:38 am
===Some of these bills might not have been vetoed or might have better shots at overrides if some GOP input was included in the first place.===
Were there any Override votes that totaled 70?
Use the Google, you may be surprised.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:40 am
Sling, any of them. Are you positing that the Dem’s sought GOP input regularly? Or just looking for your usual cheap snipe.
It appears to me a Biss bill achieved this story in CF this morning:
* Six Repubs break with Rauner
Does your mouth ever get out of the way of your brain?
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:41 am
Did Mr. Right-To-Strike-Is-Sacroanct Drury ever once think to consult the labor groups at issue in this vote rather than “expert labor law professors at Massachusetts Institute of Technology,” which, newsflash, doesn’t have a law school?
Comment by Springfieldish Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:42 am
Not to mention that Heroin thingy that cleared 100 votes yesterday. Eek Man.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:43 am
Willy, see response to Mensa Sling ^^^
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:44 am
Guy, you are just profoundly dishonest.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:49 am
- A Guy -,
There weren’t votes that had the override total AT the number 70?
You sure?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:51 am
OW yeah the vote to overturn the veto passed –
Illinois state lawmakers said they made a decision on Wednesday that could save lives, voting to veto Governor Rauner’s decision to cut heroin treatment programs. They overrode his veto by a 105-5 vote, an overwhelming bipartisan majority.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:09 pm
105 is over 70 last I looked
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:09 pm
==Some of these bills might not have been vetoed or might have better shots at overrides if some GOP input was included in the first place.==
Some of these bills had bipartisan support but when the Gov vetoed it and it came up for an override vote those same Republicans lost their guts and sided with the Governor. Were they wrong in their vote the first time?
Besides, I don’t buy this incessant whining by the GOP that they aren’t included. That’s gone on for too many years. If you want to whine about it then don’t show up. And if you do show up don’t vote present on everything. Get a backbone.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:10 pm
What are the odds that Rep. Poe draws a more formidable, Democratic opponent now?
Comment by The Muse Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:14 pm
=== Wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 11:49 am:
Guy, you are just profoundly dishonest.===
Keep singing that to yourself if it gives you comfort. It’s a cop out argument from and extremely arrogant person. That would be you. You’re profoundly bitter. There are remedies. Do yourself and everyone else you insult or call a liar a favor and get one of those remedies.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:14 pm
Oh - Allen D -
Did ya miss the “AT”?
I think you did, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:14 pm
Seriously, again with the people without college shouldn’t make 100k a year? Seriously? I have family mbr. who in the private sector, non union makes over 100k plus amazing benefits with “just” a high school education. He is amazing at his job, spent years developing the connections, learning the business and working insane hours to get there. I know union workers who have had their bodies destroyed by their jobs, comed employees on high poles in the middle of storms and who were on call all the time and would work 24 hour days due to weather events. While on the other hand I know people with advanced degrees that can’t find their way home, wouldn’t know a hard days work if it bit them in the behind and lack any motivation to excel. Get a grip folks, there is more education out there than the education you get in school and having a degree does not entitle you to better pay than those without a degree.
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:16 pm
===The Muse - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:14 pm:
What are the odds that Rep. Poe draws a more formidable, Democratic opponent now?====
Slim.
I’m mostly referring to the formidable part.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:16 pm
yes I did OW
ooops
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:23 pm
Anonymous and Allen D.
Let me enlighten you about working in a prison. Guards do not get to say whether there will be overtime. Staffing levels determine overtime less staff = more overtime. The individual working those hours can volunteer for the hours but cannot offer it. That individual payed into the pension what he made oncluding ot. Yes he volunteered but the state understaffed the prison in tge first place.
As for working in a prison. I worked that job for 8 years until I completed my degree. I can tell you I have had every excretion the human body can produce thrown on me as well as being kicked and punched. Many of those doing the throwing had hep c, hiv, etc. Had a friend stabbed. Meanwhile the state continued to reduce staffing making the job more dangerous for the remaining staff. Feel free to give it a try since it’s so simple.
But hey I’m sure you two have it worse at the checkout lane.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:30 pm
Those that begrudge a prison worker a middle-class income are misanthropes.
That’s the nice way to say it.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:37 pm
The last time Rep. Poe had a “formidable” Dem opponent was when Sam Cahnman ran against him in 2006. If - and this is a big if - Blago had not been so unpopular in Sangamon County, Cahnman might’ve pulled off the upset.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:51 pm
Madigan must have something up his sleeve because if he wants a bill to pass he will not call it until he knows he has the votes. You can count on it Madifan will get the last laugh.
Comment by Honest abe Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:06 pm
Allen D could not do the job that’s why he doesn’t understand. I would bet if he did the job for a month he would first resign and second he would change his tune.
Comment by Honest abe Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:10 pm
===This is just plain stealing from the taxpayers. Just my Opinion.===
Allen D, pretty much all we get from your comments are your unsubstantiated opinions. And they pretty much are all the same:
blah, blah, blah union bad or
Union greed, blah, blah, blah or my favorite
Blah, blah corrupt union bosses blah blah
you should just save those template in Word to save you time on your next post
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:18 pm
Honest abe, I worked Brig duty for 3 years, and no I can no longer work in that type of environment being a disabled VET, I am sorry to say my conditions do not allow me to perform those types of services anymore. What I said or believe has no bearing on weather I would do the job though… without my disabilities, I could easily as my 14 years of military service shown. lets stick to facts rather than demeaning name calling, it only diminishes your intelligence.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:21 pm
===Madigan must have something up his sleeve because if he wants a bill to pass he will not call it until he knows he has the votes===
Oh, for crying out loud.
The House had 15 days to vote on that override. The deadline is Friday. Dunkin was gonna be gone all week. So, they ran the bill to get the HGOPs on record.
Stop it already with your uninformed conspiracy theories. You’re making yourself look like a moron.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:28 pm
There isnt some House of Cards plot here. Time was running out so have the vote and be done with it. Franks and Drury were board watching and without Dunkin to make 71 they had the cover to run with their tails between their legs. ASFME loses out a bit but the Speaker doesnt lose much at all. There were plenty of routes to 71, it just didnt pan out.
Comment by Inside_baseball Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:35 pm
The root cause of these pro-Rauner voices is jealousy and disgust. These people don’t want to make government better - they want to see other people suffer if it saves them a buck. Every time they hear that someone earns more than they do, they make themselves feel better by lying to themselves that those who earn more, don’t deserve it. Every time they hear about someone getting something from government, they make themselves feel better by lying to themselves that those people are lazy, dishonest or political stooges.
The root cause of support for this governor is immoral. They don’t want to see government succeed. They don’t want to see government help other people. They don’t want to see government pay their employees well.
They have been fed buckets of lies that government is just like a business, that balancing a budget is just like sitting down with a spouse at a dinner table with a check book. They have been misled into believing that anyone who works for governments are self-serving leeches that couldn’t find a job outside government.
So, they applaud a moment when not quite a supermajority votes against a governor who agrees with their mission to bankrupt, dissolve and destroy safeguards protecting civil servants. The fact that a large majority exists to pass this bill is explained away as a political stunt by corrupted people.
Our politics is poisoned. Both parties failed us.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:40 pm
Agree Rich. Given Madigan’s history with AFSCME.
Comment by kimocat Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:41 pm
IB, how could Drury be board watching when he was talking to labor law experts at MIT, the place with no law school?
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:41 pm
Allen D
Unless your brig duty was in gitmo or Leavenworth it isn’t even close. Housing drunk sailors till their command comes and gets them is a far cry from felons.
Before you try that disabled vet card know I left a lot of blood and some Brothers in both the sandbox and the stan. 6 yrs active USMC and back in as a reservist after 9/11 I have the same friggin card.
Grow up not every job pays because of educational requirements or do you consider your firefighter overpaid.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:51 pm
Word -
MIT has a fairly well-known labor relations and management school. I know some labor negotiators and lobbyists who have taken coursework and went through training there.
http://mitsloan.mit.edu/expertiseguide/search.html?t=Labor%20relations
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:52 pm
MurMan
sorry if the Truth hurts… but That is the truth as I see it and I guess from at least your eyes, I do not waver either…. we are overpaid for what we do, it is just hard to admit it.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:53 pm
===but That is the truth as I see it===
Who made you God?
You have an opinion. Don’t universalize it.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:56 pm
Rauner is a tough businessman. All he knew he needed to do is pick/pay off one of the 71 and keep the GOP off the bill.
Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:57 pm
===we are overpaid for what we do, it is just hard to admit it.===
The Republican Party has yet to say people need to make less money. This is not a GOP ideal.
Don’t think that it is.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 1:57 pm
==but That is the truth==
*sigh* Another person who has no understanding of the difference between opinion and “truth”
==we are overpaid for what we do==
Feel free to take a pay cut.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:00 pm
Lol. Truth doesn’t hurt. Your posts are just tedious to read through. I get it, you hate unions. You are entitled to that opinion and since Rich hasn’t banned you, you are free to share your opinion with us. I just wish you it wasn’t always the same opinion or that you wouldn’t share it quite so often…
And you do realize that your views on unions are your opinions and not undebatable truths, right? I am not union, but I don’t think they are overpaid. Doesn’t make me wrong. Just means we disagree.
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:03 pm
Allen D.
Ok your overpaid I understand. However you state that you cannot do the job because of your disability. Fair enough however if your not doing the job how do you know they are overpaid? I used to do the job don’t anymore and I’d say the compensation is fair to low. If your not worth what the state pays you work harder.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:03 pm
No I am not GOD, no one made me GOD, I just stated that is the truth as I see it, as in that’s my opinion.
no the GOP has not made a statement that we need to make less money but they are supporting the Governor who has suggested cuts and pay freezes, and I am all for that, it is good for the state. But that again is my opinion.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:04 pm
- Time for reality - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 10:00 am:
“Long held” since 2012. You might want to try that reality your screenname yaps about.
Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:07 pm
Mason born,
i think you misunderstood… I no longer work in corrections environment because of a disability.. it does not impair the job I currently have, which yes I state I am over paid.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:07 pm
- Allen D -
If you make too much, just send what you feel is too much to me or anyone else that is a Republican and refuses to believe conservative/Republican policy should be that workers make too much money.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:08 pm
==has suggested cuts and pay freezes, and I am all for that, it is good for the state==
I think those taking the cuts and pay freezes would disagree with you. But, hey, that’s just the truth (er, my opinion).
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:08 pm
Also Allen D, again, if you think you are overpaid then by all means speak up and take a pay cut. Until then you are full of hot air and a hypocrite.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:09 pm
prey tell Demoralized …. how do you take a pay cut… they state can’t even figure out how use coordinating computer systems for sharing data between departments. if you are just going to say quit… save your breath… I like helping the people I do, so no I am not going to quit.
Comment by Allen D Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:21 pm
- Allen D -,
Add a “deduction”, make it 10%, then at the end of the year, donate it.
Got it?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:25 pm
Allen D:
My point is put up or shut up. You rail about making too much money but you don’t have the guts to do anything about it. If you can’t take a literal pay cut then donate whatever equivalent excess amount you say you make to charity each month. It’s pretty laughable to rail about making too much money and then not have the guts to do anything about it. So, I challenge you. If you think you make too much money get rid of that excess. Contribute it to charity. If you don’t then you are a hypocrite. Period.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:29 pm
I can provide a mailing address if anyone would like to donate the part of their pay that they don’t feel they earned to the “Murman needs a vacation from IL” fund
Comment by MurMan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:48 pm
@ Anonymous 11:07
The benefits are set by the IL Personnel Code. Neither the retiree pay plan or the retiree healthcare plan were established by the union. Non-union employees get the same benefits.
Comment by Union Man Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:53 pm
Murman +1
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 2:55 pm
Bruce Rauner brought the Speaker to his knees yesterday. It’s as simple as that.
Comment by Snucka Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:03 pm
Most workers actually are making less than 5 years ago. This is the direction that the corporate class wants to see for the majority of workers. But not for them of course.
They will lower the standard of living for the 99.99% to enrich themselves, the very wealthy.
Google: CNBC - Most workers actually making LESS than 5 years ago
Comment by Enviro Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:10 pm
==Bruce Rauner brought the Speaker to his knees yesterday. It’s as simple as that.==
No he didn’t. No, it isn’t. Oy.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:23 pm
Voting present or not voting at all has coward written all over it.
Comment by Union boss Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:23 pm
Snucka
You might be overreacting a bit. MJM still has 68 solid votes. Did MJM take a loss sure but he is far from on his knees. To borrow from
Oswego Willy it still takes 71 house votes to pass a budget or tax hike. His 68 trumps Rauner.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:29 pm
“===They worked it out so they worked 16 hours a day at the prison as often as possible the last few years they worked===
And then you make it sound like working at a state prison for 16 hours a day is some sort of vacation.
Get a clue, dude.”
Isn’t this why we pay these best-paid-in-the-Midwest prison workers time-and-a-half for these extra hours? We have to pay them the inflated rate for life? Everyone here is completely fine with stacked overtime in the final years going toward pension? No one sees this as a problem in a state with $100 billion in unfunded pension?
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:50 pm
The vote to override was a huge vote…no doubt about it. Days like yesterday is the reason many on these boards are in politics.
Need I remind folks that the sun will rise tomorrow. The Governor and AFSCME will hit the negotiating table. I agree that the Governor will play hardball with AFSCME (in an attempt to force a strike) and AFSCME will undoubtedly file a series of ULP’s against the Governor. We have a lot of ground to cover before the dust clears and this settles….and we still don’t have a budget agreement. It’s going to be an interesting 3 years to say the least.
Comment by Stones Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:54 pm
===Could it be that Madigan’so long held democrat veto proof super majority is cracking?===
lol
It’s been cracked ever since he first got it. Jack Franks, Scott Drury, Ken Dunkin (millionaire’s tax), etc.
Where’ve you been?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:56 pm
“You rail about making too much money but you don’t have the guts to do anything about it.”
I think a state worker stating their opinion that they may be overpaid takes courage, especially on this blog. Look how you all responded… Pretty typical for anyone not in lock-step here though.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 3:57 pm
== Pretty typical for anyone not in lock-step here though.==
Oh goody. Another victim.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:08 pm
@Bob1 - “No one sees this as a problem in a state with $100 billion in unfunded pension?”
No, I don’t see an employee’s pension being the problem, I see the problem is that the pension was underfunded. Don’t punish the employee for the legislature spending taxpayer dollars on services that benefited the public. Had the legislature funded the pension at even reasonable levels, the salaries and pensions of public employees wouldn’t be a problem. There are other very similar pension plans out there that were properly funded and they aren’t bankrupting the employers.
Comment by Nickname#2 Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:17 pm
Okay, so I just had a raging debate over break. Do you think that Rauner will offer a crappy contract to AFSCME with like 20% more in healthcare costs( to thus gain public sympathy and make it hard to strike) OR he’ll over the contract from hell to insure that we’ll strike? I think most of you know which side I was arguing but I thought I’d throw it out to the wise ones.
Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:18 pm
My guess is he’ll offer 0% raises over the term of the contact (identical to the Teamsters) and ask the employee to pick up a greater percentage of the healthcare costs. He cannot offer the full Teamster deal because (to the best of my knowledge) AFSCME does not offer a separate insurance pkg to their employees. He cannot give AFSCME a better deal than the Teamsters (who were on board early) without looking like a sell out. It’s not going to be pretty.
Comment by Stones Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:26 pm
“Had the legislature funded the pension at even reasonable levels, the salaries and pensions of public employees wouldn’t be a problem.”
That’s all good and well but my and others’ point was about pension spiking. No pension plan can be properly funded with near retiree’s stacking up tons of overtime the last few years. They paid into the system for years from their base salary and regular OT. It’s not sustainable to use the final inflated numbers to base their payout on. Forget right or wrong, the numbers don’t work.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:27 pm
Vouchers he will offer healthcare vouchers.
Comment by burbanite Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:34 pm
Honeybear. Rauner is a rogue cannonball. He’s all over the place: pounds one thing, then spins back and hits something else and… It’s really hard to predict what he’ll do. I’m hoping for something moderate (that he’s selling to the press), but preparing for the worst.
Comment by anonlurker Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 5:38 pm
== No pension plan can be properly funded with near retiree’s stacking up tons of overtime the last few years. ==
If the State had the proper staffing levels, there would be no need for overtime … and no opportunity for spiking. Self created problem.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:24 pm
Every single house GoOPer now on record as being a Rauner-owned foe of unions. That’s an interesting piece of historical record to have in a state once renowned for bipartisanship on these kinds of issues.
Comment by Angry Chicagoan Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:25 pm
“If the State had the proper staffing levels, there would be no need for overtime … and no opportunity for spiking. Self created problem.”
Yes, I suppose we can say every problem within IL state government was created by IL state government, therefore self-created. I was just pointing out one of the many things that should not be allowed.
Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:33 pm
Dunkin should be stripped of his chairmanship and thrown out of the caucus; apparently, there was not enough of a consequence for the Blago no show.
Drury is full of it. That bill had a four year sunset, just as the contract (we might have had) had, so it was not a risk. Obfuscation at its finest. I guess if you can’t take your weight-just lie-Rauner style.
Comment by Property of IDOC Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 9:52 pm
Robt.the 1st,
Another thing that should “not be allowed” is forcing us to do the job of three people, slashing our departmental budget by 1/2, dividing department heads between two facilities…etc., etc. yet expecting the same output, obviously it ain’t gonna happen. And you must think overtime is something we decide? It can only be offered if not enough employees are available, understaffed=mandated overtime. Sheesh
Comment by Property of IDOC Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 5:52 am
===Yes, I suppose we can say every problem within IL state government was created by IL state government, therefore self-created. I was just pointing out one of the many things that should not be allowed.===
Talk about completely missing the point. RNUG gave you facts, but you didn’t stop to analyze how those facts impact your argument. It’s a self made problem because state doesn’t have enough prison guards to fully staff prisons so they rely on overtime. If you stopped guards from working overtime, you would have to hire more guards, who would have pensions of there own. So you really can’t point to overtime and say it is adding to pension crisis. I don’t have the numbers, but I have to imagine it is cheaper for state to allow overtime and resulting pension bump then it would be to hire additional guards to fill the hours currently going as overtime. I assume that because that is what the state is doing.
Comment by MurMan Friday, Sep 4, 15 @ 8:54 am