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* Speaker Madigan isn’t the only one calling out Reps. Dunkin and Drury on the AFSCME bill…
It’s not typical for Madigan to rebuke House Democrats in such a public fashion. To buttress his contention that the votes to override Rauner would have been there if Dunkin had shown up, Madigan said unions had received the same assurances he had from rank-and-file House Democrats.
Earlier, Michael Carrigan, head of the state AFL-CIO, said in a statement he received assurances from Dunkin and Drury that they would vote for the override.
“In the days before the override vote, both Rep. Dunkin and Rep. Drury told representatives of AFL-CIO-affiliated unions that they supported the fair arbitration bill, and Rep. Dunkin indicated he would be returning from his New York City vacation and taking the train to Springfield to attend the legislative session. We are very disappointed that neither did so,” Carrigan said in the statement.
* And Dunkin responds…
“I’m trying not to be confrontational with any of my members. The speaker, in the last six-seven years, we’ve had issues, talked as men in private, as professionals. I don’t really want to be fighting him or any other colleague. That seems where this has headed,” Dunkin said.
Madigan is clearly more upset than usual, but Dunkin’s colleagues are far more angry at him for blowing off session last week than has been generally portrayed in the media. Many are demanding punishment. And I think that may be why MJM has taken this thing so far.
Plus, everybody probably needs a vacation, man. I know I do.
…Adding… Oops. I forgot to post an important link. Rep. Dunkin on WVON yesterday. Click here.
…Adding More… Reps. Dunkin and Drury were also on Chicago Tonight yesterday. Click here.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:39 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Mmmmmmm…….vacation!
Comment by Jordan Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:44 am
Well, Dunkin already had his vacation…
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:47 am
My guess is that Dunkin and Drury’s actions will play fine in the court of public opinion. This echo chamber grossly overstates MJM’s popularity amongst the public.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:49 am
Haven’t they had enough vacation already?
As to Rep. Dunkin, he had a job to do. He failed to do it. I get that members of the GA are regular people who also have a life, but in the circumstances we are in now I think they need to be in Springfield whenever it is required. Sorry if it interferes with their personal life right now. That stinks. But I frankly don’t particularly care about their personal life right now. There are more important things to do than to vacation in New York.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:49 am
All expenses paid vacation for Ken Dunkin. I bet the Rauner penthouse was nice!
Comment by 360 Degree TurnAround Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:49 am
==This echo chamber grossly overstates MJM’s popularity amongst the public==
That’s nice. Now, let’s get back to political reality shall we? Care to join the rest of us?
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:50 am
In light of the fact that the childcare bill was collateral damage, I think Madigan should make Dunkin take on community service at a local preschool. See, this is why they never put me in charge of punishments.
Comment by Dome Gnome Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:51 am
===“I’m trying not to be confrontational with any of my members. The speaker, in the last six-seven years, we’ve had issues, talked as men in private, as professionals. I don’t really want to be fighting him or any other colleague. That seems where this has headed,” Dunkin said.===
“…except when I went on Chocago Tonight to exacerbate the whole thing…”
Rep. Dunkin, you are indeed a victim, a victim of your word being useless to count on, and that your arrogance just brought down a bunch of heat you didn’t expect.
On the flip side?
The Labor Movement is nothing to fear.
I’m with Rauner on this; Labor in Illinois, even when all are faced with the reality of Rauner wanting to destroy collective bargaining, they haven’t proven worthy of the effort to worry about them.
Labor blew it twice with Rauner. Not once, twice. Plus, and lets be a bit honest here, as a movement, I haven’t seen Labor in one voice go after the governor on their one principle that makes a union a union; collective bargaining.
So, Rep. Durkin, your word, well, I wouldn’t hold it in high regard, along with Drury too. You both deserve the blowback, but I’d fear the Speaker, and not lose sleep over Labor.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:51 am
=MJM’s popularity amongst the public. =
He does not need to be popular anywhere but his district. And he is. So there’s that…..
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:54 am
Dunkin’s word has no meaning and he has a history of making promises and going back on his word. Time for a new suit and fedora
Comment by Just saying Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:56 am
They lied. Cowards.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:57 am
So why is Franks being given a pass for his duck and cover by voting “present”? That certainly wasn’t a profile in political courage, nor was it done out of sense of bipartisan statesmanship.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:58 am
I’m sure the Speaker only did a press release because AFSCME asked him to. Just like running the bill.
(Tongue firmly planted in cheek).
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:00 am
The bottom line is, nothing is happening now without bipartisan support, not a budget, tax increase, or probably even naming yet another road for yet another politician.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:02 am
===So why is Franks being given a pass for his duck and cover by voting “present”? ===
I have to believe Franks…
Jack Franks was indeed, “71″
“Speaker, you get all 70 in the Caucus, I’ll be 71… ”
I have to believe it wasn’t ever going to be Drury or Dunkin bring critical to “71″, but the lever necessary for Franks to become… “71″.
That’s why Franks gets his pass.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:02 am
“This echo chamber grossly overstates MJM’s popularity amongst the public.”
Has anyone else started pretty much ignoring comments posted from “Anonymous” or “Anon”?
I can’t recall the last time one added something of value.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:03 am
–”both Rep. Dunkin and Rep. Drury told representatives of AFL-CIO-affiliated unions that they supported the fair arbitration bill, and Rep. Dunkin indicated he would be returning from his New York City vacation and taking the train to Springfield to attend the legislative session.”
Sometimes people hear what they want to. Dunkin and Drury did support the bill - they voted for it the first go around. This statement doesn’t say they supported the override. And Ken did return from New York. Just not on the schedule Carrigan wanted. Sounds like a bunch of vague assurances that the unions and Madigan are now claiming prove these reps lied. Plenty of legislators give themselves wriggle room with how they respond to requests. Seems this may have happened here, too.
Comment by phocion Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:04 am
-The Labor Movement is nothing to fear-
It was for Pat Quinn
Comment by Generation X Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:05 am
Madigan tried. But given the numbers, he needed a cushion, which he didn’t have. There are always going to be independents thinkers. Whether or not they were bought–we’ll never know.
It’s still pathetic that this Governor’s only win in the 9 months he’s been in office–and it was a very narrow win with a just-large-enough minority to survive–has been his ability to maintain the status quo that he so reviles.
Comment by James Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:07 am
This statement, combined with the Speaker’s statement says a coulple of things. One, neither the Speaker nor Carrigan claim that the Speaker was informed by these two members themselves that they would be present and voting in favor. Both allude to them having conversations with only labor. Having worked roll calls in the past, I don’t find it that hard to believe that whoever had contact with those members either 1. Heard what they wanted to hear, or 2. Took the vote for granted (especially in Drury’s case) since he had voted in favor once, laziness can lead people to think he would be there again.
I also think that the Speaker’s gnashing of teeth may be for the purpose of demonstrating to the rest of the caucus that he’s as upset as they are.
And my guess is Franks is off the hook because he probably said he would be 71 if needed. Happens all the time (and always lucky if you only have one member saying that), and when the votes weren’t there, Jack went yellow.
Comment by Juice Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:08 am
===And my guess is Franks is off the hook because he probably said he would be 71 if needed===
That’s probably a good guess. Also, Jack didn’t go on Chicago Tonight last night, either.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:09 am
One thing is certain: two people are lying.
Either Madigan and Carrigan are lying, or Dunkin and Drury are lying.
Gee, I wonder how people will bounce on that brain-teaser?
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:12 am
Letting this carry on in the media for days is a mistake. A rare but visible punishment like stripping Dunkin of his committee would have been more effective.
Every story is another public reminder that Rauner’s alleged ==corrupt bargain== apparently exists.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:12 am
Though he was scheduled to appear but had to cancel because of a family emergency. I do hope that if there is an emergency, that everyone is alright and I wish them the best.
But watching last night, I couldn’t help but think that Mapes must be a distant cousin or something. /s
Comment by Juice Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:13 am
Planned vacations may be another casualty of the Rauner impasse. Catch days where you can.
Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:13 am
great to see Madigan and the Dems battle in public. Rare sight but a great sight!
Comment by Anon2U Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:18 am
In other news, water is wet and Jake Arrieta is a very good pitcher.
I get that the AFL-CIO is mad. But, as Willy always (and correctly) reminds us, elections have consequences and the AFL-CIO and AFSCME have run into the Great Wall of Rauner.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:19 am
===It was for Pat Quinn===
What does that mean, use your words.
Labor wanted to reach Pat Quinn a lesson? How’s that going?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:20 am
Thank goodness Colbert is back on because I really need to laugh!
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:20 am
Word, I would argue that the Speaker is not necessarily lying. He is relaying what he was told by labor. It is entirely possibly that Dunkin and Drury are lying. But nowhere in the Speaker’s statement did he refute Dunkin’s claim that he told Mapes he would not be there, and nowhere did he say he himself was told by Drury that he would vote for the bill.
I’m just saying these four are not automatically lying. Either Dunkin and Drury are lying, or someone from labor is giving the Speaker and Carrigan bad info, and they are just passing along what they’ve been told.
Comment by Juice Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:21 am
You’re right Madigan is making this a public show because his caucus members are angry and feel betrayed.
It’s inside baseball, but still I don’t see how those union teachers can support either one of those members for re-election.
People expect members to flip on votes sometimes. But if Dunkin really told the unions, Speaker Madigan, and the politicians he controls that he was going to be there and he would vote to over-ride - then he deserves all the scorn from his colleagues he is getting.
I think most House Dems are going to be a lot less forgiving of Dunkin’s weirdness in the future. Or as The Speaker would like to say “indiscretions.”
Comment by trumped up Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:23 am
The finger pointing keeps reminding everyone of the defeat. Makes the Speaker look weak. It feels like an effort to warn others of breaking rank in the future. More Durkin-like than Speaker-like. Things aren’t what they once were, that is very clear.
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:26 am
Where is the hue and cry over the BS bill in the first instance. The legislation was a crock intended to protect AFSCME not the citizens of Illinois. For those of you in LaLa land you have not figured out the ordinary folks here are sick and tired of business as usual always aimed at protecting special interests while the State and city of Chicago continue their decline. Maybe just maybe Rauner is on to something and hopefully he can steer the state away from the cliff its hanging onto
Comment by Sue Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:26 am
MrJM: Two commenters are using Anonymous. (they sometimes appear simultaneously with opposite views.) Also there’s one Anon, and one anon. Two of the four just take useless random political shots, but one Anonymous makes solid, worthwhile comments, and anon sometimes comes thru as well.
Not much we can do, except ask that they sort themselves out with differing monikers.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:27 am
The people on here defending Dunkin by claiming the unions and the speaker are lying or just heard what they wanted to, how about Rich? Can you believe him? If my memory serves, Rich said he got a text from Dunkin the night before that said he was “not sure” if he would make it. Yet Dunkin said that he told leadership weeks before the vote that he wouldn’t make it and Dunkin claims he never waivered on that. So either Rich is lying to you or Dunkin’s story doesn’t add up. Plus Kenny D shut his phone off to avoid the heat, not really the actions of someone who was honest about his plans to vote or not vote. Dunkin’s actions don’t jive with his version of events.
Comment by MurMan Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:28 am
Sue - maybe you’re right and maybe the bill is a crock. But it’s the law for most other units of government. If your city doesn’t reach agreement with your fire department, they go to arbitration. As the legislature made it that way.
Yet for some reason they don’t have to for their own workforce. Typical state government - do what we say not what we do.
Comment by sue me ? Sue everybody Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:28 am
It’s not complex Willy. You said the labor movement is nothing to fear on one hand, and then continue to beat the drum of the 40% of labor who voted Rauner. The 40% either helped cause the demise of Quinn or they are irrelevant.
I’m not speaking of the wisdom of their support just pointing out, they still affect elections.
Comment by Generation X Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:30 am
Madigan is far more known for being vague and imprecise to avoid being caught stretching the truth than he is known to stretch the truth. Madigan said he had the votes more than once.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:30 am
My issue is not so much about what happened with the three Democrats who didn’t vote for the veto override, it’s that zero Republicans voted for it, or voted “Present,” even though some have been supported by union members.
Democrats have taken tough votes against their union supporters with pension reform, so we can’t say that Democrats are always in lockstep with unions. I’m afraid that this is not the case with Republicans, Rauner and unions.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:31 am
Phocion: It wasn’t Carrigan’s schedule. It was the Illinois Constitution’s.
Juice: I think Dunkin’s emergency was that he figured out that he better quit digging the hole he was in with his party.
Comment by SAP Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:31 am
@Wordslinger - it could also be that Carrigan heard what he wanted to from Dunkin and Drury, and then Carrigan told Madigan he had their support.
The only direct contact between them and Madigan appears to be Dunkin telling Madigan he would be out of town and saying Madigan knew that in advance. Drury also told the Sun Times the night before that he still had not decided, which makes it unlikely he told Carrigan and only Carrigan he was a ==yes==.
Madigan, Dunkin and Drury may all be telling the ==truth==. Carrigan would not be the first in politics to incorrectly assume or mislead others.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:33 am
@Oswego Willy (10:02): Makes sense, but if neither a “yes” or “no” vote would determine the outcome, it still smacks of duck and cover. I realize that it’s doing things like that which keeps a guy in the legislature for 10 terms, but Franks is the first person to pile on when it suits his purpose. What’s good for the goose…
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:33 am
Sue me- it’s the law only for the units related to public safety (Fire,police) where there is a need to ensure ongoing services.. Nowhere in any other contract has the star imposed mandatory arbitration. AFSCME put Madigan up to this to try to avoid the imposition of cost savings which citizens will benefit from.
Comment by Sue Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:34 am
Who’s the audience for Madigan continuing apologetics?
The press? Rauner? His own caucus? Labor allies? The House GOPers?
Just don’t get it.
All that he needs to communicate might be better done directly rather than via press release.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:35 am
It’s the eve of the destruction of labor in Illinois. The percentage of union households voting for Rauner speaks to their ability to influence elections and policy, but also their willingness to see the seeds of their own demise. It’s time for a singular cohesive strategy for organized labor in Illinois if unions are to survive and remain relevant.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:35 am
They voted against a ridiculously awful piece of legislation, they did their jobs. If that includes not showing up, then so be it.
Comment by The Machine Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:36 am
watching dunkin and drury was funnier than colbert
Comment by huh Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:36 am
FKA, you are not going to respond to my post? You keep pushing that it was people hearing what they wanted to hear. How does that version of events jive with Dunkin’s actions. Not what Dunkin says. What his actions were.
Comment by MurMan Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:38 am
And for those who are saying local police and fire have it but the state does not, that is because those are public safety positions. Most local AFSCME units don’t have that. And state positions that are public safety-related (prison guards) have special negotiations that would ensure they cannot strike. They are covered.
Bad legislation for sad people.
Comment by The Machine Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:39 am
SAP, sorry, I was referring to Rich’s comment about Franks. Ken was most definitely on Chicago Tonight doing Ken things.
Comment by Juice Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:40 am
Dunkin’s answer yesterday on the childcare bill was the more egregious. When asked about how this will affect his constituents and about how the bill would have passed had he been there, he said there are 117 other members blah blah blah.
Ken, this wasn’t about you. It was about 90% of the recipients of child care assistance who’ve lost it not because of Rauner, but because of you, Ken Dunkin. You had the last word but you couldn’t be bothered.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:40 am
This was just a bad bill on the merits, and suburban Dems will have a hard time defending it.
The only reason the union would give up its right to strike is because it KNEW that it would get more $$$$ from an arbitrator then from bargaining. And the state has no more money, so the taxpayers would have been stuck again.
Drury and Dunkin and Franks are heroes in more eyes than they are the villians here.
Comment by Formerpol Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:42 am
- Generation X -
The mere point the Labor Movement couldn’t hold ranks better than 2 in 5 voters claiming to be from Union households voting Rauner because “Pat Quinn” is more pathetic than saying they’ve lost their ability to organize.
Day after day here;
“I’m in AFSCME and I’m voting for Rauner, to teach… ”
Welp, the whole of AFSCME is being schooled now, and Labor… as part of that 2 in 5, even if I’m a Dem running, endorse me, don’t endorse me, I still get 2 in 5 of you if I just stick with Rauner(?)
There’s no immediacy. Seriously, Rauner wants to end collective bargaining and the whole movement is passive?
The labor movement, as the Pat Quinn labor numbers prove, when given the choice of their nose or to cut it to spite their face, labor will cut it, but still won’t know why they would, or how to herd their members to stop the others.
If you are in labor and they still don’t see how this is why Rauner shouldn’t fear them, then they will never get back to being an important part of the discussion.
I wouldn’t fear labor.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:43 am
– Where is the hue and cry…..–
Where it always is, Sue. You’ve cornered the market.
Comment by Wordslinger Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:43 am
Does Madigan want a pinata with his face (or the appropriate local Rep/Sen) on it, for Rauner to bash with millions in ads, or does Madigan want unions that are motivated to GOTV for Democrats in ‘16?
This bill was bad news for ‘16 and Madigan knew it.
Comment by Touré's Latte Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:48 am
To recap:
* Dunkin tells Rich that he is not sure if he will be in town for vote the night before the vote.
* Dunkin shuts phone off rhe day of and day after the vote
* Dunkin ally Maze Jackson plays race card day after vote
* Takes Dunkin 2 days to address the media, where he says he always was telling people and speaker he would not make vote and blaming speaker for calling vote when he didn’t have the number.
Does all of these actions jive with his claim that he was up front and honest about not making it back for the vote?
Comment by MurMan Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:49 am
I don’t disagree thst labor’s influence has been diminished here somewhat. It is hard to determine if Quinn would still be Governor had he chosen a different path in regards to some labor issues. I don’t think there is any doubt that a vulnerable Dem candidate needs strong support from labor. Could labor topple Madigan if they wanted? Absolutely not. Quinn? I think they did, either by voting other way or staying home
Comment by Generation X Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:52 am
Oh, in contrast to this echo chamber’s true lamenting of Rauner’s win and Madigan’s loss is Oswego Willy’s passive-aggressive/pretend browbeating of Labor. Anyone paying attention knows Willy’s a status quo shill and is only beating on Labor to enhance Madigan. “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.” #WillyShilly
Comment by Georg Sande Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:55 am
**Ken, this wasn’t about you. It was about 90% of the recipients of child care assistance who’ve lost it not because of Rauner, but because of you**
Can you count? Blaming any single legislator for a measure failing is asinine.
Comment by TBone Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:55 am
Don’t worry, guys. I’m sure the Democratic reform group IllinoisGO will support Drury and Dunkin.
Comment by Tournaround Agenda Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:58 am
- Georg Sande -
Your obsession with me is troubling. In your last few comments, not just today, but recently, have you had any point to them?
I keep trying to see if there is ever a point, I fail.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:59 am
===Can you count? Blaming any single legislator for a measure failing is asinine.===
Um, - TBone -, I count fine, thanks.
There were social service overrides tgat garnered 70 votes, needing 71 for override while Dunkin vacationed.
Use the search key, not too hard to find…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:01 am
I think AFSCME did a poor job at informing its members and other state and university non-members of the impact that upholding the governor’s veto of SB 1229 could have on collective bargaining. For example, non-union university employee’s health benefits stem from health benefits received as part of AFSCME’s collective bargaining. This governor has already gone on record saying he would like to weaken health insurance benefits for all current and retired state and university employees. One report I saw estimated that under Rauner, current and retired state and university employees could see much higher co-pays, much higher deductibles and a 50% increase in the costs of services provided
Comment by JB Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:01 am
**Can you count? Blaming any single legislator for a measure failing is asinine.**
LOL. When you’re the ONLY Democrat that didn’t vote the bill, and the bill needed one more vote, you deserve blame for it not passing.
Comment by AlabamaShake Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:01 am
That this is still going on after a week just shows that both sides are digging in for a long session of trench warfare.
I don’t see the Speaker giving in to the Governor because of a truant member. And I don’t see the Governor dropping his agenda.
There is one bright spot in all of this: the possible override forced the Governor to publicly state he won’t do a lockout. AFSCME might be able to use that to some advantage. Did the Governor ever put the no lockout in writing as he said he would?
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:02 am
Madigan dictated Quinn’s stance on pension reform - everyone must know that! Cullerton backed off because the Speaker wouldn’t let ‘consideration’ move, and Quinn went with the Speaker’s desired bill, despite well documented constitutional concerns that have proven valid.
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:03 am
= Dunkin’s colleagues are far more angry at him for blowing off session last week than has been generally portrayed in the media =
You bet! I was texting with a member of the GA that day and the word “livid” was used. I, like Rich, was told that there were staffers waiting at the 2 pm train in Springfield to pick Dunkin up. They all thought he’d be there, and had no indication to the contrary. Especially in light of Esther Golar getting there in a wheelchair, and everyone else making it, his absence was glaring. And he sure as heck knew there was more at stake than just the 1229 override. It’s going to be chilly in the state capital for a while.
Comment by Archiesmom Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:06 am
==In light of the fact that the childcare bill was collateral damage==
The final action deadline was not until September 30. The Speaker also knew Dunkin was not present.
Either the Speaker is having trouble counting votes, or he should have known the bill would not pass and still called it.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:07 am
Watching the segment on Chicago Tonight - it’s pretty hard to not find Drury credible and truthful. I believe he did what he thought was best.
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:08 am
**There were social service overrides tgat garnered 70 votes, needing 71 for override while Dunkin vacationed.**
Letting Republicans off the hook on these measures is exactly why we’re in the position we’re in. Dunkin says he was at a Jobs conference hosted by NCSL. Use the search key, not too hard to find…
Comment by TBone Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:08 am
===Dunkin says he was at a Jobs conference hosted by NCSL. Use the search key===
Yep, and if you do look it up, make sure you take special notice of when it adjourned.
lol
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:12 am
“There is one bright spot in all of this: the possible override forced the Governor to publicly state he won’t do a lockout. AFSCME might be able to use that to some advantage. Did the Governor ever put the no lockout in writing as he said he would?”
Jack, locking out employees has never been the Governor’s play. There is so much more than economics on the table here. If the union concedes to Rauner with what is currently on the table, there will be nothing left of the union but a hollow shell.
Comment by Small Town Girl Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:13 am
Watching the segment on Chicago Tonight - it’s pretty hard to not find Drury credible and truthful. I believe he did what he thought was best.
My first trial ad professor was a former AUSA. He told us, “The key to any argument is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
For some reason, that came to mind when I read your post.
Comment by L Y O Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:25 am
===My first trial ad professor was a former AUSA.===
Are you sure you aren’t Drury.
Interesting Tidbit: Scott Drury is a former Federal Prosecutor.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:29 am
Georg Sande: Are there only allies or enemies in your political world?
Even when people agree with one of your points, must it be some kind of trick, unless they fully support your position on everything?
Is proposing a compromise a “demand for surrender” as one Rep characterized it?
I wrote repeatedly that S1229 was an “inappropriate intrusion into the Executive by the Legislature,” especially in the context of an ongoing contract negotiation. Would you see that a clever “cover” for the fact that I’m a “Madigan shill?”
Does the fact that I pretty much support two of Rauner’s eight Turnaround Agenda items, would compromise on three more, but adamantly oppose three, automatically make me a “status quo shill?”
Sorry to pick your comments out from among many, but all-or-nothing views make governing almost impossible.
(And I value OW’s comments, even though I find him impossible to label.)
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:33 am
“Rauner wants to end collective bargaining and the whole movement is passive?”
I’m not sure I’d say that. Rauner has not been able to enact any anti-union legislation. He lost big-time with RTW, and Rauner can’t pass his plans to severely curtail collective bargaining because there are more than enough Democrats to stop him.
If Illinois was Republican-dominated, with Rauner at the helm, all kinds of anti-union legislation would have been passed, and if there were enough Republicans in the GA, there would not be enough votes to stop the legislation.
I also wouldn’t say the movement is passive in what we saw at the local government level, when hundreds if not thousands of union members came out to oppose local RTW.
I think that Rauner has done a very good job in unifying unions, in that they are working together, and in the case of AFSCME, membership has gone up substantially.
The labor movement will face major limitations, in my opinion, if Republican union members don’t wise up and stop voting for Rauner/Gov. Walker types. Have they now learned their lessons? That remains to be seen.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:36 am
What’s past is prologue.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:43 am
- once you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made -
Suggest the Speaker work on his ’sincerity’ in this case then, he’s not at all convincing. This manipulation failed. He lost. Not Drury, not Dunkin, not Cullerton, not Quinn. The Speaker made this a defining issue and he lost. Move on - and now do your job for the people of Illinois.
Comment by Lincoln Lad Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:43 am
It’s wacky Wednesday alright. Carrigan is part of the cast that caused the Speaker’s indigestion. Not surprised to see him weighing in. The strategy from the House D’s and AFSCME was shove it down the GOP’s throat. Ultimately, that cost them both.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:45 am
Thanks - walker -, very kind of you, and to your point, you’re quite right;
This all or nothing mentality, it’s crippling.
All well said.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:53 am
Show up push a button. How hard is that?
Comment by Foster brooks Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:57 am
Rauner won’t lock them out. He will just impose his “best and final offer” which will consist of pay and benefit cuts along with end of fair share and end of allowing the union to negotiate things like rates of pay, hours, vacation, sick days, seniority, health insurance, and safety concerns. In other words, a union in name only. This would force a strike, which is what Rauner wants. He could then replace strikers and lower pay and benefits even more.
Comment by DuPage Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:04 pm
What is Drury real story for voting No? Was his vote purchased?
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:18 pm
It appears Franks knew Madigan didn’t have the votes, but Madigan didn’t know. What?
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:19 pm
++I get that the AFL-CIO is mad. But, as Willy always (and correctly) reminds us, elections have consequences and the AFL-CIO and AFSCME have run into the Great Wall of Rauner++
Do you really believe the union could have defeated Rauner re-election?
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:24 pm
The Republicans who voted “Present” on SB1229 should feel the pain come election day. The “present” button should be eliminated. There should only be two ways to vote. Yay or Nay.
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:28 pm
There are alternatives to a strike. Generally those could be countered with a threat of lockout, which the governor has publicly stated he will not do. There are many tools in a union’s arsenal short of the nuclear option: work slow downs, work stoppages, the good ol’ blue flu, heck maybe something new. These tools should be discussed and tested before resorting to a strike since the Governor publicly gave up his nuclear option.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:29 pm
Dupage- a lot depends on the last and final offer.
If it is publically acceptable, no matter how bad it is, the union is screwed. If they freeze wages, increase healthcare by 20% but kill all the other factors like, greivance, anti privatization etc, then we’re screwed. The public will demand we take it and then we break because it is all the hard to understand stuff that is particularly important.
If the LFO is overtly terrible 500% increase in healthcare, or like you described, then the union will go on strike and I’m betting the public won’t blame them, especially when forced out on strike during the holiday season. We might, just might have a chance of breaking Rauner. So a lot depends on what happens Oct 1, when the tolling agreement ends. One correction is that workers on strike cannot be fired. Rauners trick then is to have social service workers classified as essential employees by the IL labor relations board, which he now controls. If that happens social service workers would have to work and the poor, disabled, vulnerable, and elderly would be cared for. Regardless of what happens I believe the union effectively broke already. SB 1229 was our only hope. It’s now a game of how bad is it going to be. If we are super lucky, and I mean super lucky we might move the needle on public perception a bit to the positive. That’s the best I think we can do. It’s a rebuilding decade now. Ground game
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:24 pm
@A Jack 12:29 =These tools should be discussed and tested before resorting to a strike since the Governor publicly gave up his nuclear option.=
The Governor did not put anything in writing, and has often gone back on his word.
Comment by DuPage Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:30 pm
Honeybear:
I think you need to understand the “last, best, final” scenario a little better. An impasse would have to be declared for that and the Labor Board would have to agree that. I understand your worry but I think you are a bit premature with it.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:39 pm
@MurMan 10:38 - reply to what? Your 10:28 post? Did you post something else that may have been filtered by Rich’s program?
Your 10:28 post addresses comments defending Dunkin. My only comment before that does not defend Dunkin. It suggests Madigan should have given Dunkin a ==visible punishment== instead of letting this carry on in the media.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:42 pm
Demoralized, thanks for the comment. I’m unsure what you mean. Could you elaborate? This seems like a really important point and I want to make sure I get it. I thought that the Gov. could simply issue “last best final” on Oct 1. Does Rauner controlling the Il Labor board factor into that? Thanks again for engaging.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:51 pm
Everyone keeps commenting that these latest few failures to override the Governor’s vetoes is showing cracks in Madigan’s power. But, correct me if I’m off base here, but when was the last time he had to override vetoes, or could even ATTEMPT to override vetoes? How many vetoes did the R’s override during Blago’s and Quinn’s tenures? Isn’t it a little disingenuous to say that Madigan’s lack of override votes translates into him losing power? I would think simply being in the ballpark of being able to override a veto shows a trend towards strength/power, not the exact opposite.
Comment by Moby Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 2:12 pm
Moby: It’s not the success or failure of the vote itself that raises concerns about the mythical Madigan. It’s the rare inability to predict and count on the outcome.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 3:23 pm
FKA, I could be wrong or maybe I was thinking of another poster’s comment. Been a busy day on my end. Don’t have time to look through it all atm. No worries
Comment by MurMan Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 3:42 pm
Here is a modest proposal. With the exception of legitimate family emergency lawmakers who fail to show up to vote on ANY bill should face a very steep fine for dereliction of duty. In addition voting ‘present’ or abstaining should only be permitted if the lawmaker has a conflict of interest and must be stated for the public record. Call it the being accountable with no cowardice rule.
Comment by HGW XX/7 Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 3:45 pm
OW-
I’m not Drury. Just a run of the mill attorney.
The story, however, is true.
Comment by L Y O Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 3:54 pm
== I thought that the Gov. could simply issue “last best final” on Oct 1.==
He’d have to declare an impasse. Labor Board can review and tell both parties to go back to negotiating. But based on the things I’ve seen and read (he’s put in writing that he will extend the tolling agreement indefinitely) I don’t see him declaring and impasse.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 4:18 pm
It’s important to note that the tolling agreement doesn’t automatically expire on Oct 1 (at least from my reading). I think it says Sep 30 or the declaration of an impasse, whichever occurs later. I don’t have it in front of me but I think that’s what I remember reading.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 4:19 pm
==”everybody probably needs a vacation, man.”==
Except for Dunkin. He already took his.
Comment by jake Thursday, Sep 10, 15 @ 12:06 am
38000 members and all their family members voting . I can get 10 family members to vote, solidarity is the answers.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 10, 15 @ 6:05 am
===I also wouldn’t say the movement is passive in what we saw at the local government level, when hundreds if not thousands of union members came out to oppose local RTW.
I think that Rauner has done a very good job in unifying unions, in that they are working together, and in the case of AFSCME, membership has gone up substantially.
The labor movement will face major limitations, in my opinion, if Republican union members don’t wise up and stop voting for Rauner/Gov. Walker types. Have they now learned their lessons? That remains to be seen.===
- GoM -,
All very valid points. Very well said.
As the local uprising usurped a great deal of the momentum of Rauner and his Resolution(s), but you hit at the end what for me is the big question mark that as a collective, can Labor mobilize statewide under one premise and realize that it’s all of them under fire.
That remains to be seen, that also remains to be seen if it’s even beginning at all.
Much respect, goid points.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 10, 15 @ 8:19 am