Latest Post | Last 10 Posts | Archives
Previous Post: Today’s number: $400,000
Next Post: Oy
Posted in:
* Um, OK, how about just taking out the lights and putting up stop signs?…
As part of the city’s ongoing study into traffic-control devices, officials on Sept. 15 turned off the traditional red, yellow and green traffic light setup at two intersections: Spring and Monroe streets, and Second and Edwards streets.
Instead, drivers on Spring and Edwards streets saw a flashing red light, which meant they had to stop and then proceed when the intersection was clear, while drivers on Monroe and Second streets saw a flashing yellow light, which meant they could proceed through the intersection with caution but without stopping.
Some drivers didn’t pick up on the change and would often wrongly stop at the flashing yellow light, causing confusion, said Lori Williams, the city’s traffic engineer. In addition, pedestrians had trouble crossing the streets.
So last week, the city changed back the lights at both intersections to the traditional red, yellow and green configuration.
Oy.
Springfield has way too many traffic lights downtown. Most are only useful for about an hour in the morning and then another hour after work. And even then, stop signs would probably suffice.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:16 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
Previous Post: Today’s number: $400,000
Next Post: Oy
WordPress Mobile Edition available at alexking.org.
powered by WordPress.
Amen
Comment by Jorge Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:20 am
Maybe not knowing the rules of the road is temporarily due to the budget situations?
Once the money starts flowing back into the Secretary of State Jesse White’s office, we can continue to educate people properly on the rules of the road?
Comment by Optimist Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:21 am
Add those stoplights along with the lone railroad track that services AmTrak and freight and you have a daily recurring nightmare.
A town still stuck in the past.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:24 am
I could not agree with you more!
It’s not like anyone even pays attention to the lights, anyway. Oh, the light turned yellow? Let me speed up. Oh, it’s about to turn red? That’s ok! I can go even FASTER! Already red? You mean already GREEN!
Comment by Vanessa Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:24 am
Syncing stop lights would be nice as well.
Comment by mcb Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:27 am
Or just flash them after hours, like they have done in downtown St. Louis for 35 years.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:27 am
Not to mention the bike lanes on 2nd street that no actual bikes use. Traffic backs up and you can only go about half a block between cycles of the lights at certain times of day. THe city turned a 4 lane road into a two lane parking lot so an occasional hipster can thumb his nose at state workers just trying to get to and from work.
Comment by That Guy Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:27 am
How about no traffic lights or stop signs? http://thecityfix.com/blog/naked-streets-without-traffic-lights-improve-flow-and-safety/
Comment by Spiritualized Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:27 am
Hey Mayor–give it some time. How about doing a little PR so the goofs who don’t know what flashing yellow and red mean can be educated. Go back to flash!
Comment by Tom Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:30 am
Can a town arbitrarily change traffic signs and lights? Do they have to have a written evaluation and rational as to why? Is a state law: right turn on right for example, left to whims of ‘traffic engineers’? Rich may have stumbled upon (or stopped at the straw that broke the camel’s back flashing stoplight) of a huge story where bureaucrats arbitrarily inconvenience everybody based on what they had for lunch that day.
Comment by Henry Moon Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:30 am
I think the turnaround agenda will be in place before Springfield removes enough stoplights to make a difference. Stoplight synchronization will not be in place until we all have automated flying cars.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:31 am
Downtown Springfield is on the verge of death, so all those one way streets have become unnecessary as well. Perhaps, back in the 1960s, when everyone in Central Illinois shopped downtown, there was a need for the one-way streets, but not today.
Why is this a problem?
It is a problem because many downtown businesses are located in buildings that were designed to be approached from the opposite direction. Springfield has some beautiful downtown buildings that cannot be seen because the one-way streets direct traffic away from them.
There really is no longer any need for all the one way streets in Springfield. There are not enough businesses surviving to justify it. There is not enough auto traffic to justify it anymore.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:32 am
Springfield is a town that never properly does economic growth planning and then makes so many exceptions that there seem to be no rules. No logic to the streets, sewers, zoning or even the power plant. It is the model for the dysfunctional State Capitol it hosts.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:32 am
I actually wish Springfield would do this in a lot more areas than downtown and Wabash. I wish they would do it along Veterans/IL-4 on some of the side roads that have little traffic (especially in the morning).
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:33 am
It would be nice if the EPA would slap penalties on cities with poor traffic management due to excessive lights. So much pollution is created by vehicles idling at lights when there is no traffic. How many green house gases can we save by ripping out a few ridiculous traffic lights
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:33 am
“Stoplight synchronization will not be in place until we all have automated flying cars.”
LOL!
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:33 am
The changes made sense but abandoning them did not. If you lived on the west side Rich, your pet peeve would probably be the SHG stadium PA system and the city leaders for ignoring the problem. Springfield refuses to properly regulate high accident intersections while over regulating other intersections. They should have given time for the less than illustrious drivers to adapt to the lights.
Comment by Springfieldite Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:34 am
“THe city turned a 4 lane road into a two lane parking lot so an occasional hipster can thumb his nose at state workers just trying to get to and from work.”
This non-hipster state worker uses that bike lane regularly to get to work. It’s one street out of many without a bike lane. You get the same amount of traffic back up on the streets without a bike lane. Rich is right, there are far to many stop lights in downtown Springfield. Was Cellini ever invested with a stoplight manufacturer?
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:35 am
Turnabouts would be great for any new road development.
Comment by Beaner Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:36 am
Roundabouts / traffic circles also make great replacements for stoplights in many cases, but if folks are confused by flashing yellow lights…
Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:37 am
Spiritualized is on the right track but I’ll take it further: traffic circles. And yes, more than just the “for show” traffic circle at the east end of Capitol that no one ever uses.
Traffic circles save electricity (no traffic lights needed), save fuel (no idling cars), and improve traffic flow. And, once you get the hang of them, are an utter joy to use.
Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:41 am
So, rather than expect drivers to know the rules of the road, Springfield is going to keep unnecessary lights in operation. That is good government in action. Nothing more frustrating than being the only car sitting at a light (or in sight) during off hours.
Comment by Slick Willy Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:42 am
People in Springfield complain if it takes more than 10 minutes to get home. Yellow lights mean speed up and flashing yellow just causes convulsions for some drivers. The 2nd Street bike lane is the biggest waste of tax dollars and traffic space. It would have been a lot easier and less disruptive to take out parking on Spring Street and add a bike lane there. Less auto traffic during peak times. The Springfield city planning department really thought that one out - must have given that duty to the summer intern. Travel to other capitol cities around the country and you’ll be ambarassed to compare them to Springfield. Hell, the Wal-Marts in Springfield have better looing parking lots that our Capitol Complex.
Comment by Joe Schmoe Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:43 am
Amen. And the light cycles are wayyyyy too long for the amount of traffic.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:44 am
Roundabouts? Yeah, the one at 12th & Capitol is effective as hell. Every school bus that runs around it tramples everything down. Another springfield planning gem. That one was handled by the summer intern three years ago.
Comment by Joe Schmoe Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:45 am
Joe - your comment had me laughing. I’ve talked to several state workers who’ve complained that it takes a while to get into downtown in the morning. Well, yeah, because they all get there at the exact same time!
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:45 am
They’ve had the blinking yellow out by the mall for about a year now and I think it’s just a disaster waiting to happen. Talk about being mushy: we want you to slow down, no don’t, no slow down, no don’t….
Comment by Conn Smythe Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:48 am
I disagree about the 2nd street bike lanes, but adamantly agree on the traffic lights. Seems like Springfield’s answer to everything is yet another light that turns red just before you get to it.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:48 am
The MCL crowd is really perplexed over that flashing yellow on Wabash.
Comment by Joe Schmoe Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:49 am
I read this earlier on SJ-R’s website and rolled my eyes. Typical Springfield dysfunction. There was another article several weeks (or maybe months) ago about removing some other traffic signals in town. Maybe they should hire an actual company who has experience with conducting traffic studies to do an actual traffic study instead of going with the status quo, which seems to be relying on city employees who keep messing it up. It’s like their using the trial & error method instead of relying on actual calculations and facts.
“Not to mention the bike lanes on 2nd street that no actual bikes use.” Yes, the ONLY street in town that has a bike lane. Dumbest thing ever!!!
Comment by L.A. Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:50 am
Legalize U-turns everywhere and anywhere. There’s your turn-around agenda. Fixed it. Done. Next?
Comment by X-prof Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:52 am
Capt Fax where have you been snoozin’
SPI has the Guiness book of records for the most untimed stop lights in any city. Legendary Mayor and U of I board member Karen Hasara once ran on a platform to time the lights. Her subjects had not noticed the problem since most run them anyway. Flashing is too complicated …don’t know if when we stop or go or pause.
Comment by Anonin' Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:53 am
I’ve asked three Springfield mayors about why the lights can’t be “synced”. All three told me the lights represent three types of technology some dating from the 1950s and the “old types” cannot be coordinated with the new ones.
My reply was so we can launch a missile from a couple hundred miles away and have it hit a selected target the nice of a garage door but Springfield can’t figure out how to make stoplights a block apart be the same color at the same time.
Welcome to Springpatch.
Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 10:56 am
Somewhere there’s a city worker (who ordered the Spring & Monroe light changed to a yield) who probably thinks it is funny that cars and state workers play chicken at 4:30 every day.
It is a recipe for disaster. Real lives are at stake here.
Comment by The Drummer Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:01 am
Before everybody jumps all over Springfield about the bike lanes, there is a method to the madness. The bike people can get a little goofy sometimes.
The FHWA, via SAFETY-LU (a federal highway bill), has mandated that the various transportation agencies increase non-motorized transportation by at least 15% of all trips.
There is another state law that may be coming into play as well, Complete Streets, which mandates that urbanized areas must consider bicycle transportation in the planning and design if roadway projects. This mandate applies to state routes.
Not being from Springfield, I don’t know if the streets mentioned are state routes. Whether marked or unmarked, Complete Streets applies to the project.
The traffic signal mess should have been handled by signs and/or message boards to alert motorists to the altered traffic signals.
Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:02 am
Synchronization?
I actually thought it was already in place.
My last time in Springfield, I drove on S. Grand from Mcarthur Blvd to I-55 and hit every light.
If it wasn’t synchronized, then I missed a HUGE opportunity, as I didn’t buy a lottery ticket that day.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:06 am
and Second and Edwards streets …
My experience was watching a car pull up to the flashing red on Edwards and assume that the cars on Second also had a flashing red and had to stop only to narrowly avoid being t-boned by the Second St driver who was proceeding through the flashing yellow.
recipe for disaster.
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:07 am
What about all the 1950/1960 era one ways to nowhere, other than,moving people in at 800am and out at 430pm but otherwise making downtown hard to manage?!
Comment by Annon3 Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:08 am
A surplus of stoplights is a common problem in many cities. And for some reason a number of people can not figure out what a yellow flashing light means. I have had to explain to some myself and the still don’t seem to believe it.
Around here, virtually all small towns have had a proliferation of regular stop signs over the past few decades. Even in small towns virtually every street intersection has a four way stop. It has not quite reached the total saturation point but it soon will.
Of course, the magic word of ’safety’ always comes up and that is supposed to quite any intelligent discussion of the issue,
Comment by Federalist Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:12 am
Two different cities that I visit, annually, have traffic circles. I am a big fan of those.
But very tough to put in after the fact.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:15 am
That and people not turning into the lane CLOSEST to them AND not turning on their lights while it rains.
Comment by Union Man Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:21 am
I bicycled to and from my State job yesterday using the Second Street bike lanes, and I work with several others who regularly use them as well. I have yet to see any substantial traffic jam supposedly caused by them. Only in Springfield would less than a dozen cars waiting at a light be considered a traffic jam.
Comment by State Lawyer Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:23 am
@Team Sleep 9:43. What Portion of the 6$ billion is current salaries? The AMOUNT the pension is underfunded is a fiction based on false assumptions of inflation over the past 20 years.
Comment by Union Man Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:31 am
Union - that must be from the other post.
Lawyer - my biggest problem with them was that it seemed as though the lanes just…happened. There was no prior warning or signs posted. The city just painted the lanes and that was that.
Comment by Team Sleep Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:33 am
FINALLY somebody is talking about this. What a disaster that whole city is when it comes to traffic lights. I built a healthy obsession for traffic lights while living in Springfield commuting from Southern View to IEPA every morning. Some lights are unneeded - traffic lights to exit a parking lot on North Grand? Some lights are incoherent - the northbound turns green 1.5 seconds before the southbound; green light for less than 5 seconds, etc. Then you have things like this - when I approach a flashing red signal, I assume everyone else has that same red signal. absurd!
Comment by Johnny Pyle Driver Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:33 am
Driving is a lot like politics where most people make up their own fantasy rules and then complain about everything.
Comment by Liberty Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:37 am
The traffic lights in Springfield provide the most frustration for me as a resident. Although not a professional engineer or an expert in traffic, it seems far too obvious to me that there is no rhyme or reason at many intersections.
On top of that, my neighborhood chooses to install speed bumps at certain locations on busy throughways. This penalizes the local residents who mostly abide by our local zone.
Also, just once, ONCE, I’d like to see someone in Springfield pulled over for blatantly running a red light, which is witnessed every day by anyone who spends any time at all driving the streets of Springfield.
Comment by Ubecha Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:38 am
Here is the problem I ran into. I was proceeding with caution through the flashin yellow, but I think the guy stopped at the flashing red thought it was flashing red all around and assumed I would be stopping so he started to proceed. Luckily no accident, but very confusing without a little more info posted at the corners. At least with four way stops signs they have the little disclaimer “four way stop” or “oncoming traffic does not stop.”
Comment by Tatler Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:38 am
Is it any surprise that when Rauner was elected the Springfield Chamber of Commerce and community was advocating for more government jobs to return to Springfield from Chicago. Not private sector jobs, but public sector jobs.
With a lack of focus on the private sector there will be no innovation or entrepreneurs willing to start businesses or locate to Springfield. Hence Springfield is stuck doing the same old status quo in regards to city planning that have been done the previous six decades.
If Springfield really does want to re-attract residents from the urban sprawl the past 30 years and make it an attractive location for young educated people, it is not a promising sign when they can’t even successfully navigate traffic flow. Or have the infrastructure in place to do so.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:46 am
Springpatch has long viewed excessive amounts traffic lights and multiple garbage pickup days (garbage cans and trucks out all the time) on the same street as signs of sophistication.
Good luck changing that.
Comment by Qui Tam Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 11:59 am
Um, back in the day, there was no traffic light at all at Monroe and Spring – just stop signs on Spring. Of course, there weren’t as many parking lots back then, but there were a lot more cars, if you can imagine that. Springfield should have skipped the flashing lights and gone with stop signs on Spring only.
Comment by Cheswick Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:09 pm
I meant to say *there were a lot more cars going through there
Comment by Cheswick Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:12 pm
Hard to relate at the moment. You need to say a rosary every day in Chicago if you drive in and around for work. The bike lanes here…they’re like a prelude to involuntary manslaughter. Need more than a helmet.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:18 pm
If you were actually driving on 2nd street between 7:30 and 9AM, or between 3:45 and 5PM, you would know why the flashing lights combined with the bike lanes were a bad idea. Give some thought to those that need to get to Madison from that location. There is no good way to do it except 2nd street. It’s hard enough to turn left from Edwards to 2nd without flashing lights, since the lane reduction pretty much means traffic is steady on 2nd street during those hours.
Comment by thoughts matter Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:25 pm
“Also, just once, ONCE, I’d like to see someone in Springfield pulled over for blatantly running a red light, which is witnessed every day by anyone who spends any time at all driving the streets of Springfield.”
OMG Yes!! What really ticks me off is if I would try it, there would be an officer appear out of NOWHERE to pull me over.
Comment by L.A. Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:27 pm
Been a mess for a long time and was looking forward to mayor shutting more lights off. As a motorcyclist it is easy to understand why the hundreds of riders avoid the down town area especially in the summer.
Comment by Nicky Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:29 pm
Some lights are synchronized and some are not; however, the main consideration for synchronization is that it is simply impossible for EVERY route to have synchronized lights.
Roundabouts will lead to an incredible number of accidents in a city where EVERYONE believes he is more important than the next guy, hence why so many blow through red lights.
Springfield, for its size, probably needs two main routes each of straight east-west and north-south without ANY lights at all. Whether that necessitates a raised road or some other option for crossing those routes is currently unclear. Nonetheless, we have need to get from edge to edge or drop off downtown quickly. I-55 and Veterans could serve the purpose of Veterans didn’t have lights and I-55 had a third lane. That just leaves the routes to downtown which are Clear Lake, 6th, Monroe and Jefferson which mostly have lights synced pretty well. I agree to just get rid of a bunch of lights downtown.
And while we’re at it, how about making all parking meters the same! 2-hour, 1-hour, 30-min and 15-min mixed and matched with no rhyme or reason except store proprietor requests to city council makes no sense.
Comment by Pessimistic Realist Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 12:29 pm
@Lawyer…….
I’ve seen a total of 2 cyclists using those lanes since they went in - a year ago.
Comment by SourKraut Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:01 pm
“Also, just once, ONCE, I’d like to see someone in Springfield pulled over for blatantly running a red light, which is witnessed every day by anyone who spends any time at all driving the streets of Springfield.”
I’m pretty sure IL still requires a front plate, but see cars without one every day. How’s that work?
Comment by SourKraut Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:05 pm
Go to Decatur or C/U, both of similar size. Traffic flows soooooo much faster there. My limited driving time in BloNo and Peoria would seem to indicate they move better as well. Also probably doesn’t help that Springfield has far worse drivers than those towns.
Comment by mcb Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:28 pm
The only route in Spinfield that is synchronized is the route that former Mayor Hassara took to city hall. A pet peeve of mine is public works starting a small road project during the morning drive time. Delay the start time to say 9:00 when most people have arrived at work. Work on projects in other areas and stay out of the way on main thoroughfares until then.
Comment by Pacman Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:30 pm
Agree, the City sure could benefit from some professional traffic engineering.
Sorry Rich if that is your biggest Peeve about Springfield . . . I can think of 20 other things that are more annoying about Springfield.
Comment by siriusly Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:35 pm
===I can think of 20 other things that are more annoying about Springfield. ===
Meh. I kinda like it here. If I didn’t, I’d move elsewhere.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:37 pm
I don’t know about BloNo, mcb, but C-U has just as many stoplight and traffic problems as we do here in the ‘Patch. The area north of I-74 in Champaign has been a disaster for a decade. Also try getting around or through the UI Campus at a reasonable pace. The only reason I don’t lose it driving there is knowing back routes from when I grew up there. The People’s Republic of Urbana isn’t as bad because nobody wants to go there.
My least favorite traffic light in Springfield is the one on Monroe that stops traffic so the LRS folks don’t have to drive a block east to get to the next stoplight. That is Springfield in a nutshell right there.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 1:48 pm
And on the other hand, Springfield has way too few stoplights at the southwest end of town. When you turn left onto Koke Mill or West White Oaks Drive, you often take your life in your hands.
Comment by Quiet Sage Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 2:03 pm
“A pet peeve of mine is public works starting a small road project during the morning drive time. Delay the start time to say 9:00 when most people have arrived at work. Work on projects in other areas and stay out of the way on main thoroughfares until then.”
Amen to that. I know I’m just complaining now but yesterday while taking my daughter to school down Walnut near Washington Park, you have one city crew blocking off all lanes for tree trimming so everyone detours one block only to find one lane shut down for repairs and the other lane blocked by truck picking recycling. All of this around 8:00 AM.
Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 2:28 pm
“When you turn left onto Koke Mill” I often take Koke Mill instead of Veterans because there aren’t as many lights.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 2:40 pm
The stop lights are not limited to Springfield but also exist in the surrounding area. From Lincoln to downtown Springfield I have counted 26 of them. Obviously someone is making a lot of money installing and maintaining these lights. The city should not subsidize a comfortable commute for those who decide to flee a socioeconomic and racially integrated public school system for the suburbs. There are also dozens maybe hundreds of streets and alleys the city can vacate and return to private landowners thereby shifting the cost of maintenance as well as creating more efficient routes of travel. Moving the train station from downtown is one of the most foolish things I have ever heard of. Having 3 forms of efficient transportation is vital to any city. Moving the train out of the downtown will have a negative economic impact on the downtown area. It will make Springfield more isolated than it already is, and the cost could be used for something else that would create growth, like subsidizing the rehab or construction of more residential apartment space downtown
Comment by Chupacabra Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 2:57 pm
The bike lanes on 2nd were a recommendation in the Springfield Bike Plan. Cyclists wanted a north/south route into downtown and the medical complex. 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th are one way. Spring doesn’t go through Jefferson.
For those who claim they don’t see cyclists using 2nd, I bet they use 2nd at rush hour only. I see cyclists using it regularly.
I realize it’s such an inconvenience to some to share the road with cyclists. Chill.
Comment by Sir Reel Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 2:58 pm
The bike lanes are in tribute to the greenies. Without the lanes, cyclists would simply take the side street, sidewalk, main street combo, just as they always have. Necessity, in that case, making far more sense than the latest invention.
Comment by Keyser Soze Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 3:09 pm
Of all the things to whine about. Traffic? Traffic lights? So it takes, what, an extra two minutes to drive across town, a journey that takes less than 15 minutes, no matter the time of day. I always laugh when I hear people complain about the traffic lights. You want traffic nightmares? Move to St. Louis or Seattle or San Francisco. Even in big towns where lights are synchronized, it does no good because traffic can’t move even when the lights are green.
Comment by Quit complaining Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 4:15 pm
Stirred the s***pot Rich.
Comment by Nick Danger Wednesday, Sep 30, 15 @ 4:27 pm