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Question of the day

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Illinois

Let’s assume that your state income tax rate is going to increase. On what would you prefer the money be spent?

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 7:56 am

Comments

Education, healthcare and infastructure.

Comment by wndycty Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:04 am
They should take the cash in piles of $100 bills and, similiar to the broadcast of lottery drawings, have a once a week bonfire on the shores of Lake Michigan, publicly televising the burning of the cash.

Any other way of disposing of the cash (that is, giving it to politically favored people in exchange for services, justified by being either “efficient” or “necessary” or both) creates expectation, dependency and the clamour for ever larger annual cost of living increases, and is the proven way to bust a future budget some years hence.

Comment by Rick Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:15 am
The costs of copying documents and complying with various subpoenas from the US Attorney.

Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:21 am
Money should be used for developing new sources of energy, a high speed rail systems, and improved mass transit. Funding for all school children to attend and pass a mandatory parenting class each of their last two years in grade school and two years in jr. high school on how to properly raise children and manage money. Money to purchase required uniforms for all legislators to wear when in public so we can recognize them and protect our wallets and purses when they are present. Money to build larger prisons and enforcement for all lobbyist to register and report immediately to prison so they can serve four years prior to actually working as a lobbyist. All citizens armed with paint ball weapons to be fired at any politician each time we hear them say â€œtrust meâ€, or â€œyou have my word.â€

Comment by Justice Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:31 am
100% to real estate tax reduction!!!!!!

Comment by PalosParkBob Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:35 am
pensions (returning money to it), education, property tax relief — and moving the capitol to peotone (ok, probably not)…

Comment by bored now Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:38 am
Infrastructure, property tax relief, education and econonic development.

Comment by Niles Township Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:39 am
What? My income tax is going to increase? It better not. Now why does this possibility NOT surprise me. After 4 years of our GoverNOT spending “like a drunken sailor” and John Filan tellingt us we have a balanced budget, Ricky you got some ’splainin’ to do to the taxpayers if you want us to swallow this one. There should be more than enough money in the budget for schools, infrastructure and healthcare. After all, that’s what Blago spent $30M telling us all for the past 8 months.

Comment by Little Egypt Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:40 am
My absolute distaste for the premise not withstanding, I’d prefer the money be spent on roads and bridges and school construction - all bid openly and fairly. I can dream can’t I?! I’d say property tax relief, but it’s difficult for me to believe this state could dictate to Cook County or any other to lower property taxes. End result of a swap - the same high property taxes (at least until the court battles end several years down the road) and additionally high income taxes. A net increase in taxes on the regular guy.

At least with roads and bridges we could see the results and the spending spree would result in long-term capital improvement.

I can’t believe the Demcrats would really raise the income tax heading into a Presidential Election, but I didn’t think Rod could win re-election either.

Comment by Frustrated Republican Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:46 am
In my dream world, I’d really like to see the money go towards paying current bills and other outstanding obligations. Pay down what’s owed to the pharmacies, health providers, etc. I know, it’s not likely….I said it was my dream world.

Comment by Walking Wounded Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:55 am
A 240-day school year, like Japan, to avoid wasting school construction money on vacant space while working parents are forced to pay for summer childcare.

And smarter transportation (transit, HOV), so that parents can get home in time to help their kids with homework.

Comment by Schools and getting there Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:56 am
Pension replenishment

Comment by Siyotanka Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:00 am
Use the new money to fund a “pension lottery”. Retired teachers could purchase tickets for a modest sum. If their numbers were right, they’d get their pension that month. Given existing pension balances and the new bucks– they’d have about 1 chance in 3. So, it would be both “new thinking” and “fun” at the same time– definitely not “business as usual”.

Comment by OleProf Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:04 am
How about anything but the gov’s legal fees.

Comment by just a thought Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:08 am
Refunds of taxes to those who pay income taxes.

Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:12 am
Rod gave his word there would be no tax increases so this is impossible.If he is forced to change his mind (break a promise?), pay all the existing bills/obligations, set aside bucks for bills/obligations from existing services over the next year, and create a real rainy day fund before a dime is spent on any new project. That includes no on the spot give aways to ballfields, churches, shooting ranges or any other group.

Comment by zatoichi Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:16 am
The state is broke. We have to pay down that pension debt that’s spiraling out of control. Once thats paid down, that cost goes away. Then you could use the extra for schools, construction, healthcare bills, etc.
I have to laugh at those who want it all back in tax relief in one way or another. But Bob’s answer didn’t surprise me. No Bob, it’s not all about the kids, but it’s not all about you either.

Comment by pay it off Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:58 am
What bored now said: property tax relief, education, pensions (in that order). But there’s no PREFERENCE about it. Unless EVERY PENNY of an increase goes into those areas, FORGET IT. [pant, pant, gasp] Sorry for yelling.

Comment by Calypso Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:01 am
1. Pay off debts and fund pensions.
2. Outsource public schools to India, China, Japan and Mexico. Instead of paying for current student transportation costs, it would be cheaper to buy each student one round trip ticket per school year.
3. Use any left over funds to finance Cubs payroll. After building a stadium for the Sox this is only fair. If the Bears go to the Superbowl, make sure Blago gets seats in top row, near pidgeon roost.

Comment by Ali bin Hadden Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:05 am
Cut property taxes. Illinois’ property taxes are so high, and so lopsided towards wealthy towns, education has suffered tremendously. Right now, seniors hide behind caps while families get gouged. Cut the property taxes and give that money to our rotted schools and infrastructure.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:29 am
Pensions!

Comment by anon Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:37 am
I’d prefer that money be spent on issuing new bonds. If Illinois could raise $2-$3 billion in new revenue, just think about how much debt that could service! $15-$20 billion easy.

That would buy political peace in Illinois and Chicago for AT LEAST 4 or 5 years. Our modern ‘Era of Good Feeling’ here in Illinois would keep on rolling….

I know if I got a $100 a week increase in income at work, I’d run out and buy a brand new $40,000 SUV. $400 a month is enough to cover the payments for 72 months. Who would have thought a measly $100 a week raise could buy so much!

Comment by Leroy Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:40 am
My gas bill!

Comment by HRH Weezer Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 11:15 am
Education and Pensions

Comment by curious Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 11:17 am
I am strongly opposed to a tax increase; the state has plenty of money but distributes it poorly.

For sure, no more money to Corrections, DCFS, DHS until they clean up their bureaucracies and reduce their service populations. DCFS takes a disproportionate number of African-Americans into foster care and also protects far too many unproductive and downright incompetent bureaucrats. Corrections should be advocating for a reduction in their first time drug offender population. They can’t do it alone
but they can work with judges and other stakeholders to educate the public on what a ripoff ($250 million annual ripoff to be precise) the current sentencing system is. DHS is simply very badly managed and, of course overstaffed with patronage hacks at the management level. Again, no more money without reform.

No more money for schools without much higher levels of teacher and administrator accountability and revision of taxpayer ripoff school pensions.

No additional money to pay off state pensions without substantial revisions of pensions for new state workers. Every year thousands of new state employees get added to an unsustainably rich pension system. We can’t afford this. The state bureaucracy has become impossibly expensive…another taxpayer ripoff.

The one place I would invest is in universal health insurance. There is no reason to give state employees lavish and almost free health benefits while permitting 1.8 million Illinois adults, mostly working adults, to go without health insurance. If we have to pay more taxes,
provision of basic affordable health care for all is the priority…yes, even more of a priority than raising the salaries of already overpaid and underperforming schoolteachers and administrators.

Comment by Cassandra Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 11:19 am
Hopefully to not fund some the governor’s pet projects that I don’t think he’s thought through.

Seriously though they should use this money for education. I don’t agree with raising taxes but a tax increase will be a way for those advocating for better funding of the schools to put up or shut up.

Comment by Levois Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 11:57 am
Cassandra, would you take a little quiz for me:

1) how many state employees were added to the SERS retirement roll last year?

2) how much is the average monthly SERS pension?

3) how much is the average monthly TRS pension?

Comment by NumbersGuy Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 12:41 pm
How about paying down the Medicaid backlog?

Side note: Dick Mell is going at it with Rod and the Illinois Hospital Association over the charity care issue. There’s a piece over on the right under IceRocket. It’ll be Mell and AG Madigan versus Rod and the hospitals. Should be interesting.

Comment by Angie Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 1:06 pm
Seriously. Read it. I’ll put the link right here.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=76364

The Mell/Madigan versus Rod/IHA fun is just getting warmed up, methinks.

Hey, at least some good came of this election. Lisa’s back on the attack over the charity care issue, and Rod is completely on the WRONG side of the issue (shockingly shocking, I know–pardon the sarcasm).

Comment by Angie (post-script) Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 1:28 pm
Pensions with an emphasis toward all new workers going into 401K style plans rather than the older fixed pension plan. I think that was already done, but continue in that vein. See if you can offer a deal to mid-career people to get them to switch by offering a modest carrot. Other than that, pay down the outstanding pension liabilities.

Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 1:35 pm
Before there is a tax increase, the Governor and legislature need to quit wasting money on their pet projects. The budget deficits need to be brought down before any new spending is approved.

Comment by Wireless Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 1:54 pm
I’d be interested in hearing Bill’s opinion on this. Come back to us Bill. Time for partying is over. It’s time to get down to business and save our state.

Comment by Little Egypt Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 2:10 pm
Since Illinois has the worst debt liability in the nation the wisest course of action would be to pay down the existing debt, such as pensions, Medicaid backlog, etc. Also, quit obligating money to new programs that we don’t have. This spending insanity needs to stop.

Comment by Downstater Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 2:23 pm
Numbers-
I don’t care how many were added last year. The state rarely lays off anyone, even if they are totally incompetent, so most of the hundreds of thousands of state employees and teachers covered under the various systems will be collecting their nice pensions.

I believe teachers get an average pension of
$36,000, with state employees averaging about
$24,000. Most collect Social Security on top of that, plus free health insurance until they become eligible for Medicare, when the state pays for free supplemental insurance. The pensions come with a three percent annual cost of living increase. This compared with the bulk of their private sector compatriots who get no pension other than Social Security and who have to pay for their own health care until they are elibile for Medicare, when they have to pay for supplemental care.

Given all the demands on the state budget, we can’t afford this little government employee welfare state, especially when most of us not on the state welfare payroll also have to save money for our own retirement.

Comment by Cassandra Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 2:25 pm
The first $50M should be used to help Tony Rezko pay off his debt. Tony has always been there when Illinois needed him…a little reciprocation is in order.

Some should be set aside for a legal defense fund for a legal defense fund for the victims of Pat Fitzgerald’s witch hunt.

Comment by Frosty Da Snowman Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 2:33 pm
They should use a tax increase to expedite Blago’s conviction. Then use the remainder to dispose of the damn key.

Comment by Southern Illinoisian Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:04 pm
catch up on pension payments, to a responsible level of funding - not compared to what was being appropriated to pension systems in past years, before all the early retirements;

meet the State Constitutional “directive” of 50% of education costs coming from the State of Illinois - with whatever implications that has for property tax cuts or rollbacks;

catch up on all overdue State bill and reimbursements payments - nothing over 30 days, 12 months a year, year after year;

return state agencies to functional staff levels, not maintaining the lowest ratio of state employees to the total general population of the state - just for the sake of political pride in it; and

conduct an honest review of rates versus costs for community based providers serving State agency clients, and begin paying human services providers a functional rate before the entire community based human services system collapses in the next few years.

Also, since we’re dreaming on responsible things to do with available State funds, create a Rainy Day Fund for avoiding horrendous cuts during the next budget crisis era.

And if we don’t raise taxes - start Googling New Jersey state government to see what happens after years of budget games and deferrals. New Jersey has fallen apart, and is painfully being put back together again. At the moment, Illinois is roughly two to three years behind New Jersey if we do not raise taxes and address our revenue problems.

Comment by capitol view Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:08 pm
Assuming there would be an income tax increase, all the money should be used to offset and eliminate ALL taxes on the poor. The least government can do is to do no harm, and it makes absolutely no sense to force any poor people to pay even a penny in taxes.

Comment by Jeff Trigg Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:13 pm
I am against an increase in any taxes.

I am especially against a tax increase to fund political extortion from a black politician who thinks throwing money at black education will solve their poverty problem.

I would be in favor of paying more in taxes to fund another division of Patrick Fitzgeralds office.

Dumb.

Comment by Crackhead Obama Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:18 pm
Full public financing of public elections in Illinois.

Comment by Squideshi Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:33 pm
Equal Education Funding.
Adequate Healthcare for everyone.
Infrastructure.
Pension stabilization.
Rainy day fund.

Right on capital view - “conduct an honest review of rates versus costs for community based providers serving State agency clients, and begin paying human services providers a functional rate before the entire community based human services system collapses in the next few years”

Wow. Most people don’t get it. The state wants out of the business of helping people who can’t help themselves. Isn’t it scary? They want to shove them out of state centers into the community and they (the state) don’t want to have to pay for any of it. And providers are supposed to support this blindly on both sides. It’s sickening and evil beyond words. The helpless pay the price and people who care suffer because we can’t fight it.

Comment by Tessa Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:43 pm
Cassandra. you give me a migraine. You never let the facts get in the way of a good rant against those lazy state workers, do you?

First you say, “Every year thousands of new state employees get added to an unsustainably rich pension system.”

Then when you have to admit you don’t know how many, you say it doesn’t matter.

Actually, the net change in SERS retirees has been nominal over the past 3 years (after the ERI bubble.)

To some extent, you’re right. Paying pensions, ironically, is not what drives the State’s rising pension costs. Paying the huge IOU is what does.
If I were king for a day, I would use a significant propotion of the new revenues to pay down that unfunded liability. At $40 billion and growing, it will hamper the State’s financial status and ability to fund many other worthwhile programs down the road if it is not substantially reduced in the near future.

A couple other notes-

Teachers don’t get free health insurance. Maybe a few superindents, but not the rank and file.

Teachers also don’t get Social Security unless they had summer jobs or post-retirement work. Even then, it’s reduced by Social Security due to an obscure provision called the Government Pension Offset.

Comment by NumbersGuy Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 3:45 pm
Cassandra, the SERS system isn’t “unsustainably rich” either. As a matter of fact, it would be sustained quite nicely by the current employee/employer contributions. The employees have always made theirs, but not so for the employer. What’s causing the pensions to appear to be too costly to sustain is retiring the principal and paying the interest on the employers unpaid past share.

BTW, your observation about private sector benefits and pensions is ABSOLUTELY incorrect when the State is compared to its peers; unionized very large employers. The last time I checked (less than a year ago) there had been no change in the number of defined benefit plans among that group, and the changes in those medical plans were exactly the same as the State has been doing; employees making larger contributions, picking up larger deductibles and co-pays, substantial decline in the number of pure indemnity plans, great increase in number of PPOs.

Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 4:21 pm
I’d like to see more diverted to corruption and pinstripe patronage. There is something comforting about living in a state where citizens perform to a higher standard than their elected leadership–It’s good to leave room for improvement.

Comment by Upper Mississippi River Basin Blog Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 5:26 pm
Give half the money to offset property taxes for educating the next generation and half to police and prisons to hold the derelicts of this generation that refused to be educated. “They” say the educational systems cost less than the penal systems.

Comment by Joannie Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 5:34 pm
Hire a couple of big goons to make Blago hand over all the documents and subpoenas to Lisa and the press.

Comment by Buck Flagojevich Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 5:43 pm
Simple, paying down debt.

Comment by DRB Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 6:14 pm
Pay down some serious debts first, the rest will have to go to pay for all the new toy programs Blago has already brought online.

What I *think* the money will go to is,
more signs on on things with the Governor’s name on them, More parades, more ball parks, more salt dome power-washing contracts, more out of state restaurant contracts, more “information outreach” i.e. free campaign commercials and PR on the opublic dime, more “intern” jobs avoiding veteran’s preference, more outside lawyers to obfuscate, intimidate, and interfere with the legal processes of the state and federal investigations. And plenty of no-bid consultant contracts for friends.

Oh yeah, and more tooth whitener and spray-on-tanning sessions for the PR hags.

(the weather has me down today so I’m extra ornery)

Comment by Pink Elephant Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 6:19 pm
1. Half the money for Rich Miller

2. Half the money for Pat Hickey and Leo high school

Comment by Shamus Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 6:24 pm
Tax increase? I didn’t hear that in any campaign speech.

Comment by The 'Broken Heart' of Rogers Park Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 7:23 pm
Pay the bills. No new programs!

Comment by Lovie's Leather Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:29 pm
I agree with Buck Flagojevich 5:43. It is time for the truth.

Comment by Rex Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 8:53 pm
I don’t know how many new employees become eligible every year for a pension under one of the five state pension systems but assuming normal attrition, I think it’s reasonable to assume the numbers are in the thousands. I do assume most of them will remain long enough to be eligible for a at least a partial pension. Government pensions and associagted free or almost free new health care are the new great thing, courtesy of Joe and Jill Taxpayer.

The problem is that while their private sector peer make do with 401k’s and much reduced benefits, government employees, including teachers,continue to receive the expensive pension and health care benefits which are rapidly becoming extinct in the private sector. Given the many demands on state government dollars, this seems like a poor use of funds.
We will soon find out just how expensive that free or almost free health care is when the state has to comply with the new GASB requirements.

As to comparing the benefits accorded to those in the Illinois pension systems to other large unionized systems, that approach ignores the fact
that large unionized systems with lavish pension benefits are going the way of the dinosaur. Think General Motors.

Of course we can afford to pay lavish pensions in Illinois. But that means less money for schools, universal health care, affordable housing, needs of a far more numerous group of citizens. And those needs should come first. Not those of government employees.

Comment by Cassandra Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 9:14 pm
Cassandra, did you read what I said? The number of defined benefit plans among large unionized employers has not changed appreciably over the past several years. Is it that hard to understand?

Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:28 pm
Cassandra, Mr. and Mrs. Little Egypt are retired and our healthcare is NOT free. We pay a fairly hefty premium each month. Prescription medicine goes up every month and several of our meds now cost $40 each per month. Life as a retired state employee is not on easy street.

Comment by Little Egypt Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 10:41 pm
steve schnorf & Little Egypt -

Please quit annoying Cassandra with facts.

In case you didn’t read her post, she thinks “it’s reasonable to assume.”

Please stop being unreasonable, and just agree with her fantastical assumptions.

Little Egypt — if she says your meds are free, not $40 a month, they must be free. Do you really think you know more about the cost of your own prescriptions than some anonymous blogger who lives 300 miles away?

Jez, the nerve of some people. I’m sorry Cassandra, you were saying?

YDD

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Nov 15, 06 @ 11:38 pm
[Hire a couple of big goons to make Blago hand over all the documents and subpoenas to Lisa and the press.] ~ Buck Flagojevich

Rod being on the wrong side of Lisa Madigan, a waaaaaay popular, is going to be nothing but more trouble for him, especially since he and Madigan are at odds over the charity care issue for the non-profit hospitals.

I hope every nook and cranny of the healthcare financial industry (namely the sleazy collections agencies that got everyone in trouble over their heavy-handed tactics) gets a giant spotlight shining in. There’s no better time to fix this mess than now, and I do believe it’ll demonstrate to Illinoisans (yes, even Dems) just how much Rod is all about power and ego and campaign contributions, since he has stated in a news report that he won’t be working with the AG on her charity care issue. Wow. Talk about arrogance.

Can’t work with the little lady AG, huh Rod? Mr. Testicular Virility can’t take the little lady as the state’s top attorney tellin’ him what to do, eh? Eh?

I hope the press NAILS him on this issue (hinty hint hint hint).

Comment by Angie Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 1:31 am
Meant to add “a waaaay popular Attorney General” in that last post.

Comment by Angie (post-script) Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 1:33 am
I’m sorry for hogging three posts, but Rod’s behavior on this issue just makes me want to scream.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/97483,1NWS6-15.article

He’s going to protect the folks whose industry association gave him about a quarter mil in contributions, but he won’t work with our very very popular Attorney General?

If the Tribune still reads Cap Fax, will you folks please put on a full court press over this issue? Please!

This is the healthcare governor? Won’t back AG Madigan on the issue? He only jumps for those who throw money at him, I suppose. Not the little lady AG who really truly cares about human beings. No siree. Can’t work with her office at all.

I hope Lisa runs for gov and takes this jerk out. If Topinka couldn’t, then maybe a Dem needs to do the job instead. That’s the only hope left in this state, for decent Dems to step up and fix some of the mess around here.

Comment by Angie (post-script again) Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 1:41 am
Health insurance is free to former Illinois government employees. Nobody gets free meds but
most people don’t define health insruance as including prescription drugs.Even those on Social Security.

Large employers (other than government entities)
locked by contract into expensive defined benefit pensions are trying to get out of them.
Over time, they likely will. New GM employees will not get the lavish benefits of their predecessors.

But comparing government pensions with other large unionized employers is a red herring. Why should government employees have substantial pensions if the bulk of their fellow working citizens do not, pensions their counterparts must fund while saving for their own retirements. And why should so much of state’s resources go to funding these pensions. instead of funding health care for all, schools, care for the disabled, and so on. It’s a misuse of limited resources. A few of the privileged taking money from the rest of us. And the return is minimal, I might add, especially in the patronage-ridden state bureacracies.

Comment by Cassandra Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 8:37 am
Bigger ball stadium in Marion - maybe one that seats 80,000 - 90,000 people - it can double as the Olympic Stadium in 2016.

More tax credits for movies and a big replica “Hollywood” signed posted on the Thompson Building in Chicago.

Comment by 4% Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 8:42 am
Cassandra, if you don’t know what the benefits are that state employees and retirees get, then please be quiet. You act like you know so much about state employees, but you don’t, so just stop it, please. State employees are not being replaced by the thousands, or even the hundreds. That is laughable. Every single, that is by the ONE, goes through the governors office for approval. And they don’t come fast or easily, because he doesn’t think any agency needs more staff, which is why we work thousands of hours of mandatory overtime. So quit telling everyone here your theories about state employees, working and retired. I, as a state employee, one who worked on the current contract, who knows the system, am tired of it.

I’m sorry, YDD, Little E, Steven Schnorf, I tried, and I tried, but I couldn’t ignore her anymore. ARGH.

I guess maybe I need to walk away from the blog for a while and take a deep breath.

Comment by Tessa Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 11:50 am
Question for “know it all” Tessa:

Since you apparently part of the contract negotiating team, please “educate” us all on the following info:

1.How much of the annual State pension obligation is being paid to “early retirees” in the TRS, SURS, and all other state funded pension programs?

2.If State and public employees able to opt out of the Social Securtity system were getting the same benefits as the rest of us poor schmucks get, how much less would the stae pension fund obligation be? Follow up: What percentage of salary do state and public employees in Illinois pay compared to deductions from those of us in the Social Security System and OUR employers?

Please explain what it takes to dismiss an incompetent civil service or tenured teacher, as compared toi the rest of us “at will” employees.

I understand that “average” pensions are about $38 fro state and teaching employees.

Please educate us on what the average annual pension payments to employees retiring in 2005 were, and please explain why there’s such a huge increase “above average”.

I’ll be waiting with bated breadth for your “expert” response!

Comment by PalosParkBob Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 12:32 pm
Ever think what it would cost to hire competent state employees if we didn’t have a healthy pension system? Illinois would always get the leftovers and that means state police with an average IQ, professors whose degrees come from diploma mills, teachers who scramble to keep pace with their students, social workers who model themselves after Tony Soprano, etc. If adequately funded, pensions help the State to get talent now and pay for it later. Some of the extra tax dollars must go to keep the pension systems afloat.

Comment by retiredguy Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 2:04 pm
retired guy, what level of competence do you think we’re getting in public employees now?

College of education students typically have the lowest entrance exam scores and lowest class ranks of the “professional schools”.

The cream of that crop generally leaves public employment within four years, because they quickly learn that doing your job well in public service, especially public education, is completely irrelevant to their financial rewards.

These “movers and shakers”, the people who really could bring world class performance to public service and especially education, often wind up going to “privatized” public service, without union hindrance and repression, and do very well.

One wonders when you last tried to recruit a young employee. Try selling them on the idea that a huge pension benefit MIGHT be there for them in 30 years, if the system doesn’t go broke and the public doesn’t rebel against its excesses.

They’ll ask you how quickly their salary will increase if they do a great job, and their performance is much better than the “dead wood” they see. If you’re honest, you’ll tell them that no matter how well they do their job and how valuable their services are, they’ll be stuck in a “seniority and classwork” compensation system.

That loses the top prospects right away.

Who’s then left to be “public employees”? With some notable exceptions, the politically ambitous who’ll “network” in the system until they can become a consultant or independednt contractor, and those who just want to be a “warm body”, get raises without having to prove they deserve them, and people who just want to retire early on fat pensions.

By the way, Tessa, are you there? Tessa,(knock knock),Tessa?

oops! Looks like she doesn’t like to discuss the facts about public empoyee pensions very much!

Comment by PalosParkBob Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 3:58 pm
By the way, retired guy, it may not be such a bad idea if social workers had more than a little “Tony Soprano” in them.

Anyone who’s seen the series knows that he’s an expert in dealing with “social problems”. Usually it involves a 9mm “intervention” to the back of the head!

Talk about a motivating factor in getting your act together!

Comment by PalosParkBob Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 4:07 pm
PalosParkBob, that was truly an idiotic thing to say.

Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 4:13 pm
PPB, try a little simple math. Let’s say for purposes of discussion that employees reire at pensions of 33% of their salary, and to make it easy, wages to the currently employed go up at 4.2% per year, and 100 people reire each year.
So, again to make it easy, let’s start with a base average salary of retiree of $10,000/year. OK,
1996-100 people retire
1997-100 people retire
1998-100 people retire
1999-100 people retire
2000-100 people retire
2001-100 people retire
2002-100 people retire

Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 6:15 pm
Whoops,
2003-100 people retire
2004-100 people retire
2005-100 people retire
2006-100 people retire
Now, can you do the math? If so, you will understand why the pension of someone who retires this year will always be higher than the average pension of the people who retired befor this year.
If not, I give up on you.

Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 6:18 pm
PalosParkBob - You’ll be waiting a long time for me to respond, because I find you too irritating to respond to. I’m not going to answer your questions because quite frankly I was referring to Cassandra’s repeated references to state employees as you would have noted in my answer above.

I’m only going to get a decent retirement, if I stay in the state system long enough to retire from it, due to my enrollment in deferred comp. It’s not like Illinois has the best retirement system in the U.S.. Ya’ll make it sound like people retire from the state as millionaires.

Comment by Tessa Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 7:11 pm
Rich: Sorry about the “un-PC” comments about a “Soprano” method for correcting dysfunctional social behavior. It was a feeble, Kerryesque attempt at humor. I guess I’ve been hangin’ with my Cicero homeys too much recently.

I want to make it clear that I do not recommend using lethal force as a means of resolving anti-social behavior. In fact, I’m strongly against the death penalty, for reasons that are best saved for a future thread.

Steve: The math isn’t so “simple” as you state. First, your 33% numbers are way low, especially for “career” public school teachers. The number’s closer to 75% for a teacher with over 30 years service who meets pension requirements.

Next, you ignore the fact that most state pension funds escalate payments at a rate of about 3% per year “automatically”.

You are right to point out that State employee salaries have been escalating far faster than inflation. That’s one of the main reasons that pension funding hasn’t kept up with pension obligations.

It’s simple math; escalating salaries and benefits faster than growth of tax revenues (and state income) will lead to structural deficit.

That’s the political choice made by about 80% of Illinois public school district, which has resulted in deficits and “need” for tax increases.

The reason I asked Tessa these questions is that I understand that current TRS average 2005 pensions are about $60K, more than 50% greater than current “average” state government pensions, even though they’re being increased at 3% per year.

Until the State takes all currently legal action to slow the growth of state and school employee pensions to increases in revenues through growth of Illinois income, we will continue to have the “structural deficit” that will eventually bury the State pension program, along with most other state services.

I agree Tessa. If I were a state, TRS, or SURS employee, I’d find the concept of pensions “only” going up by the CPI “irritating” too.

Steve and Tessa, I suggest you take a look a Vanguard’s website to determine the present worth value of “typical” TRS pensions. I’ve run a few numbers based upon my local school districts, and the “value” of the pension was equivalent to a single tax free payment of between one and two million dollars at retirement.

When you consider that the “average” current retiree gets the equivalent of over a million dollars in present worth pension benefit at retriement, is it any wonder the pension fund is on life support?

Comment by PalosParkBob Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 8:44 pm
[…professors whose degrees come from diploma mills…]

Plenty of those around. Only a few universities worth going to in Illinois, and from what I’m reading, U of I is losing their top people to other institutions.

Education quality is very important, and you can tell a lot about the quality by those who have graduated from the various schools. I actually gave up a fully renewable scholarship from a regional school to attend a better university precisely because the quality wasn’t great. Not a single test, quiz, mid-term, or paper that was longer than 5 pages. THAT is a diploma mill, and there are lots of ‘em around. Yet that’s where some of the educators graduate from. Yikes.

Comment by Angie Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 9:12 pm
Must be nice to be in your local school district. Out in the corn fields, it’s not that way, and my pension with my deferred comp isn’t going to be near that high. Those I worked with who took early retirement, with the exception of a penny pinching merit comp boss I had, are watching their pennies because they don’t have piles of money sitting around to spend. Nice dreams, though, that you and others weave of those retiring with TRS, SERS, etc. pensions. It’s not the reality.

Comment by Tessa Thursday, Nov 16, 06 @ 9:17 pm