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* Roger Dow, president of the U.S. Travel Association, speaking in Springfield yesterday…
“It’s important to understand we can’t sacrifice freedom out of fear,” said Dow. “These incidents are tragic. However, if we don’t travel smartly and have smart security, then the terrorists win the game. It’s very important to understand. We must show the terrorists, life does go on.”
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:31 am
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I agree with Roger Dow. Although tragic, we can’t let these extremists dictate how we are going to live our lives. Reminds me when I was growing up and planes were regularly hijacked to Cuba.
Comment by Stones Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:34 am
Bring in the Israelis. They know how to do smart security. Look for the bombers. Not the bombs.
Comment by No Kidding Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:37 am
Fear is often an irrational thing. I was far more likely to die in a car accident on my way to work this morning than I am to die in a terrorist incident anywhere. Yet I still drive to and from work every day. The awareness of the dangers of commuting keep me alert and make me drive sanely, but I’m not in a state of fear. Same thing with traveling. Do what you can to be safe and weigh your risks.
Comment by MSIX Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:37 am
I think Netanyahu said it best yesterday,
Terrorist have ‘no resolvable grievances’ just seek our ‘utter destruction’.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:39 am
Amen. “I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” Nelson Mandela
Comment by Paddyrollingstone Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:39 am
Agreed. Brussels would need to have four more of these attacks to equal the number of homicides in Chicago so far this year.
Comment by Angry Republican Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:44 am
The point of a terrorist attack is to intimidate the living. Giving into fear and irrational hatred serves their purpose.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:46 am
Good luck, we’ve given terrorists much of what they dreamed of since September 11th. The ineffectiveness of the TSA is well documented, but seldom is seriously questioned, because it makes people feel safer. In 2000, I’d never imagined such widespread acceptance of unaccountable no fly lists, unreasonable searches of metadata, civil asset forfeiture, data sharing between the government and companies like Google and other unwarranted monitoring of private communications. Most people don’t think about how vulnerable they are to terrorist attack standing in a large airport security line queue, but I do. I fear for the future of not just this country but much of the west, because of additional reactionary security policies that probably won’t make us any safer, but will definitely make us less free. I also know I hold a minority opinion, and am ready for pre airport, pre pre airport security, along with widespread implementation of security checkpoints and searches at a variety of events and locations. I also hope I’m wrong.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:52 am
What Dow and others are saying is based upon a hope that is not bore out by reality.
What he is hoping is that the terrorists just want to disrupt our lives and scare us.
What we have been witnessing instead is that the terrorists want to terminate our lives and kill us.
There is a huge difference. The people of Brussels were doing more than just going on with their lives, unafraid of Islamic terrorism. They were repudiating fear publically on television, in print ads and telling the world exactly what Dow and his ilk are telling us to do.
The victims in Paris and in Brussels were innocent people who weren’t any threat to Islam or to their political beliefs. To pretend that we should just mosey on as though we can willfully ignore their repeated threats and attacks is insane in light of the concrete reality we see before us.
When an opponent verbally attacks you, it is ethical to verbally repulse those verbal attacks. When an opponent physically attacks you, it become UNethical to continue using verbal repulses to those physical attacks.
Consequently, what Dow is proposing for us to do is unethical. He is protecting his travel association as its spokesman. Listening to him for advice regarding Islamic terrorism is foolish.
Emeril Lagasse knows Islamic cuisine, so should we take advice from him on how to keep ourselves protected? I bet he is smart enough to not even try.
You don’t take advice from association spokespeople on issues beyond their capacity to discuss intelligently.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:57 am
–Bring in the Israelis. They know how to do smart security.–
They do, but nothing is foolproof. The Israelis documented 108 terror attacks in Israel in 2015, with 83 deaths and 251 injuries.
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html
If some nihilist losers or demented whack jobs want to blow up a subway or start spraying in Cole Hall or shoot up a woman’s health clinic, not even a police state can prevent it 100%.
There are, after all, frequent terrorist attacks in China and Russia.
Many of us of a certain age grew up in a time of MADD. The smart money said it was an inevitability that the United States and the Soviets would eventually lob nuclear missiles at each other (the Russians still have plenty of nukes pointed right at us, by the way).
That didn’t happen, and life went on.
It would be swell if we didn’t elevate these losers to global figures every time they managed to kill someone and give them their “blaze of glory” exit.
That must be exciting to the feeble-minded out there who want to go out the same way.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 9:58 am
–To pretend that we should just mosey on as though we can willfully ignore their repeated threats and attacks is insane in light of the concrete reality we see before us.–
Who in the world said that?
The United States has been for years and is right now whacking suspected terrorists all over the world.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:02 am
VM +1
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:02 am
Travel smartly? Smart security? Sounds good, but what does it mean? It is all so defensive.
When true evil is at your door, is the best solution to build a heavier door?
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:04 am
The more I read about the way Brussels and Belgium are set up administratively the more I wonder whether these guys could have been stopped with better police work and coordination among law enforcement. Read something in vox that Brussels has 19 mayors and 6 separate police departments for a city close to San Antonio in population. Insanity.
The civilized world is going to have to set aside parochialism to protect civilization from the barbarian nihilists.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:11 am
Obviously, the safe place to go is Cuba. POTUS spent the day there, yesterday, without a care in the world. Laughing, doing “the wave” and showing those terrorists.
Comment by weltschmerz Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:13 am
“Obviously, the safe place to go is Cuba. POTUS spent the day there, yesterday, without a care in the world. Laughing, doing “the wave” and showing those terrorists”. Yes, instead the POTUS should have left Cuba, run to a bunker and showed the terrorists that if they say “Boo,” he jumps. Great idea. /s
Comment by I'llPourYouAGlass Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:18 am
I get why he says that, in his role it’s all he can affect. But, still, pathetic.
Civilization does not win by just pretending the barbarians aren’t there, we win by crushing them and actually, you know, winning.
Comment by Harry Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:18 am
Last night the CBS Evening News did an extended one hour program, complete with several replays of screaming, smoke, panic, and fear.
It struck me that such graphic, sensationalist coverage is precisely what terrorists thrive on. Terrorism, of course, is about generating fear.
I’m not saying news programs shouldn’t cover such events. However, they might consider not helping the terrorists incite terror.
Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:21 am
Strengthening our visa process and securing our borders would be a basic step towards Dow’s goals.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:23 am
Streatoe Curmudgeon–you are right, but they also might consider not shrieking “Islamophobe” at anyone who tries to actually talk about what we might do about stopping it.
Comment by Harry Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:23 am
Hey Weltshmerz, nice trolling. Cuba has been a huge strategic problem for decades. Did the President who once headed the CIA solve it? No. Did his son? No. Did the guy the R’s claim has coddled terrorists be the first to break through? Yes.
On the topic, Kasich has sounded the most presidential on the R side regarding Brussels.
Comment by Mongo Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:32 am
===
Last night the CBS Evening News did an extended one hour program, complete with several replays of screaming, smoke, panic, and fear.
It struck me that such graphic, sensationalist coverage is precisely what terrorists thrive on. Terrorism, of course, is about generating fear.
I’m not saying news programs shouldn’t cover such events. However, they might consider not helping the terrorists incite terror.===
I’m no apologist when it comes to our national news networks but I would rather see what is actually happening in the world than be told what is happening with the spin that goes with it. Fear trumps complacency in today’s world. Complacency brought us 9/11. I doubt it was the terrorist organizations that gave themselves the label “terrorists”. It’s what we have chosen to label them. The end game for these groups, especially ISIS, isn’t causing us to live in fear. That’s just icing on the cake. No, their end game is death to all ‘infidels’.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:36 am
===I get why he says that, in his role it’s all he can affect. But, still, pathetic.
Civilization does not win by just pretending the barbarians aren’t there, we win by crushing them and actually, you know, winning. ===
And in the process, we become them. Genocide is not a solution.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:38 am
“It struck me that such graphic, sensationalist coverage is precisely what terrorists thrive on. Terrorism, of course, is about generating fear.”
This is the type of coverage ISIS and other terror groups use in their recruitment videos. If you think for one minute the “over” coverage of events by media outlets doesn’t contribute to their cause, you’re smokin’ weed with Cheech and/or Chong.
Comment by Westward Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:38 am
for those who think that the united states isn’t actively fighting ISIS, you’re just wrong. We have successfully taken out leadership, bombed strategic targets to include oil fields that were generating cash for ISIS operations, and retaking territories previously occupied by ISIS. Your simply buying into this Trump thing that we are not “winning.” How do you conclusively defeat an enemy that exist in every part of the world in sleeper cells? How do you conclusively defeat an enemy that will never formerly surrender? If you’re measuring success in this current battle against terrorism, you’re mistaken. We will never defeat ISIS the way the Allies defeated the Axis in WWII. ISIS is not a traditional military organization with specific goals. It simply exists to disrupt life for peaceful people throughout the world. This will often involve murdering innocent civilians. There is no rational justification for what they do, but we cannot become a monster to defeat a monster. I have willfully surrendered some of my civil freedoms in the effort to secure our country. In order for law enforcement to identify and track these potential murderers, law enforcement needs the ability to monitor traffic through means that some will define as big brother like spying.
Lets stop with the nonsense that the President accepts terrorism, and that his trip to Cuba demonstrates his apathy. He has done more to defeat terrorism than President Bush did. He gave the order to kill OBL. He has employed drones to decimate ISIS to a mush greater degree than President Bush did. And for those who suggest that we should be deploying US forces around the world to defeat ISIS, you better be prepared to deploy your children to that end. For all the bravado of Donald Trump, neither he, nor 99% of the rest of America, has served in the military.
Comment by anon Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:38 am
===I think Netanyahu said it best yesterday,
Terrorist have ‘no resolvable grievances’ just seek our ‘utter destruction’.===
I bet Netanyahu would have less of a terror problem in his country if there was an actual path to citizenship and enfranchisement for Palestinians living in the occupied territories.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:39 am
yeesh, these comments are the binary world. We can’t attack ISIS while also going about our lives? We can’t do a better job of attacking ISIS without the mass killing of innocent muslims, which only serve to recruit more terrorists?
And people only “shriek” Islamophobe when you propose banning 1.6 billion people from entering the country because they practice a certain religion. Or when you say that the problem IS their religion without also acknowledging how geopolitics and the economy play in to the rise of terror
Comment by Johnny Pyle Driver Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 10:44 am
Mongo - Time to catch up. While Cuba is still an exporter of terrorism in our hemisphere; it ceased to be a threat to us in the 80s. Small potatoes attempt at another legacy item.
Comment by weltschmerz Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:02 am
““It’s important to understand we can’t sacrifice freedom out of fear,” said Dow.”
Will someone please tell Trump we can’t sacrifice freedom out of fear?
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:03 am
Genocide is not a solution.
Tell that to the Armenians, the Jews, the Cambodians, the Romani (Gypsies), Rwandans, the Zunghars, the Hutus, and the hundreds of millions others who were victims of genocide.
That is, if you can find any of them left.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:04 am
===I bet Netanyahu would have less of a terror problem in his country if there was an actual path to citizenship and enfranchisement for Palestinians living in the occupied territories.
Nah. The only way that Netanyahu will have less of a terror problem is if Israel ceases to exist.
Comment by Stating the obvious Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:06 am
===Tell that to the Armenians, the Jews, the Cambodians, the Romani (Gypsies), Rwandans, the Zunghars, the Hutus, and the hundreds of millions others who were victims of genocide.
That is, if you can find any of them left. ===
Or Native Americans if we’re scoring at home. The point was that becoming the people who committed those atrocities is not an act of civilization. It is an act of barbarism. (It also serves to create more radicals than it kills, but that’s another issue.)
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:10 am
What MSIX said.
I am very concerned about America’s historical miilitary involvement in Muslim countries. We tried to portray ourselves as bringing justice and democracy to the world while invading and occupying a country, Iraq, that had nothing to do with 09/11 and was not an imminent threat.
How do we think potential enemies might view us? How many innocent Muslims have we killed and injured? Which leaders are being held legally accountable for our behavior?
I feel less safe also because of the actions of my country. I think it’s wrong for Trump and others to talk about banning Muslims. Lots of people kill in America. Are we going to stereotype and ban people who fit their religious and racial profiles too? We should try to build bridges instead of blowing them up.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:12 am
We had a wise and street-smart locksmith tell us something like “if they want in, they will find their way in—-if the door is made of steel, they’ll just rip the frame out.
The terrorists have all the time in the world to hone and implement their fear tactics.
I choose to not give-into this and am planning a trip for this Fall. I wish we’d leave the fighting in the Middle East but that is not my decision to make.
Comment by Belle Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:15 am
===Nah. The only way that Netanyahu will have less of a terror problem is if Israel ceases to exist. ===
We wouldn’t really know now since they’ve never tried that.
Instead it appears to be more acceptable to completely disenfranchise what amounts to a 3rd of the total population in the lands that you control and claim that said 3rd of the population is out to destroy you. Granted they probably are at this point…we’re coming on 50 years since the 6 Days War (which means 50 years of disenfranchisement).
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:16 am
–Civilization does not win by just pretending the barbarians aren’t there, we win by crushing them and actually, you know, winning.–
What in the world are you talking about?
On a regular basis, the United States whacks suspected terrorists in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and Pakistan.
Those are just the places that we know about, for sure.
How is that “pretending they are not there?” That’s actually “killing them.”
Is it your expectation now that the United States is responsible for protecting the people of Brussels from Belgian citizens? Kind of a tall order. How would that work?
“Civilization” has and will face bigger challenges than losers who are willing to blow themselves up and go out in a blaze of glory.
Why make these guys out to be 10-feet-tall? That’s what they want.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:36 am
==Many of us of a certain age grew up in a time of MADD.==
This reminds me, along with that were constant reminders of what made us different and better than the communists. For example, I learned in school about the East German secret police, how large numbers of people were hired to spy on others. I also learned how that could never happen here, that we required search warrants for that kind of widespread monitoring. We don’t require passports for traveling within the country like the Russians did, but we do have checkpoints inside our borders in border states. I believe in the aggressive persuit and destruction of ISIS and other terrorists that attack us and our allies like Belgium, but I think it should be done in a way that respects the 4th amendment as well and as literally as we respect the 2nd.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:37 am
Instead it appears to be more acceptable to completely disenfranchise what amounts to a 3rd of the total population in the lands that you control and claim that said 3rd of the population is out to destroy you.
First off, you are off by almost 10%. Palestinian in Israel make up 20.8% of the population. They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights. Your are wrong.
So you are saying that Palestinians in Israel have no rights at all? Please tell us more.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:38 am
===First off, you are off by almost 10%. Palestinian in Israel make up 20.8% of the population. They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights. Your are wrong.
So you are saying that Palestinians in Israel have no rights at all? Please tell us more. ===
I was talking about the Occupied territories.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:42 am
I spent the morning planning a trip to Venice for events surrounding the 500th anniversary of the establishment of the Jewish ghetto.
They won’t stop me. Indeed, this solidified my intention to go.
Comment by JoanP Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 11:55 am
I was talking about the Occupied territories.
So was I.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 12:01 pm
“Homer the Vigilante” The Simpsons, Season Five, Episode 11 (1994).
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 12:10 pm
=“It’s important to understand we can’t sacrifice freedom out of fear,”=
This assumes we haven’t already started doing that. See NSA’s warrantless surveillance, the military security complex, etc….
Comment by Qui Tam Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 12:20 pm
–I was talking about the Occupied territories.
So was I.–
You can’t be serious.
The status of Palestinians in the occupied territories is the dominant and constant conversation in Israel.
No one anywhere on the political spectrum in Israel would pretend that those Palestinians have “rights,” except those granted by the military authorities, which can and are taken away at a moment’s notice.
Really, don’t look for clear and simple answers in that neighborhood. If they existed, they would have been instituted by now.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 12:35 pm
Warning: Rant. After 911, the government set out to disarm everyone and anybody that goes on an airplane. My feeling is that that was the exact opposite of what should have been done. Cheap hunting or combat knives can be bought for just a few dollars or so. The government should have handed them out to anyone with identification, kept a list of those on the plane, and collected them when the travelers departed- No big deal, but instead of a couple of terrorists armed with box cutters, you would have a whole plane full of armed citizens. More importantly, it would have sent an entirely different message to the rest of the world… end of rant…
Comment by downstate commissioner Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 1:05 pm
Several months ago, we had the discussion regarding the acceptance of Syrian refugees. Find out that one of these baby killing murderers was recently back from Syria. With all that screening going on in Europe, I wonder what went wrong?
Comment by Blue dog dem Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 1:25 pm
–Warning: Rant. After 911, the government set out to disarm everyone and anybody that goes on an airplane. My feeling is that that was the exact opposite of what should have been done. Cheap hunting or combat knives can be bought for just a few dollars or so. The government should have handed them out to anyone with identification, kept a list of those on the plane, and collected them when the travelers departed- No big deal, but instead of a couple of terrorists armed with box cutters, you would have a whole plane full of armed citizens. –
Is that a gag? Have you been on an airplane? You want everyone armed?
By way, the “flaw” in your “plan” is that everyone who gets on an airplane has shown identification. The 9/11 hijackers showed ID.
If lack of ID was the key to singling out terrorists, that would be swell wouldn’t it?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 1:26 pm
To clarify the above the Arab population in Israel proper is about 20.7 percent. There are about an additional 4 million Arabs in the occupied territories with about 400,000 Jews in the West Bank.
Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 2:41 pm
You’re getting trolled, slinger.
I shouldn’t have bitten at the extreme position but I hate anti-Semitism.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 3:33 pm
ugh, i thought this place was better than to label disagreement with Israeli policies as anti-semitic. I was wrong.
That kind of stuff exists everywhere apparently
Comment by Johnny Pyle Driver Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 3:53 pm
==The government should have handed them out to anyone with identification, kept a list of those on the plane, and collected them when the travelers departed==
The Archie Bunker solution. Anybody remember the show when he suggested handing a “rod” to every airline passenger, then collecting them after the plane landed?
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 4:20 pm
Here’s the Archie Bunker video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 4:29 pm
Wordslinger @ 1:26: Yes, I have been on an airplane. Yes, I would rather everyone be armed, than no one but the terrorists. The law-abiding passengers will go on an airplane without weapons (nail clippers and files -sheesh!), but if a terrorist can get a weapon on board, he will. Simple fact.
The old gun-nut phrase “If guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns” has at least some grain of truth in it.
I did not advocate guns, I suggested knives.
As for the “flaw”, the identification is get the weapon for the duration of the flight only- it is not to screen out terrorists- that should have been done by the TSA before the terrorist got on board.
Oh, by the way, I have a friend that has another solution. Don’t let ANYONE on the plane with clothes on. If everyone is naked, you should be able to see if they are armed.
Comment by downstate commissioner Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 4:35 pm
FWIW, the WSJ and British papers are full of stories of how Belgian law enforcement apparently has known for years about the terror network its citizens were building in Brussels, but just never got around to doing much about it.
What’s more, France and Belgium don’t even share information on possible terrorists. Take a look at the map — understanding open borders for EU citizens — and try to figure that out.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 5:09 pm
“I did not advocate guns, I suggested knives.”
Bringin’ a knife to a bomb fight? SMH.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 5:12 pm
@downstate commissioner
Just an FYI. Mental illness or childhood does not preclude being able to fly as a passenger. You still sure you want to hand out knives to everyone with identification?
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Wednesday, Mar 23, 16 @ 5:48 pm
@MisterJayEM Can’t win ‘em all… let’s just strip naked…
College Student: Kind of a weak argument, since the point is that kids (obviously) wouldn’t be included, and the whole point is that I (and other good people) would be armed.
Strange, no one has disagreed with the part about the message being sent to the rest of the world…
Comment by downstate commissioner Thursday, Mar 24, 16 @ 9:00 am
===College Student: Kind of a weak argument, since the point is that kids (obviously) wouldn’t be included, and the whole point is that I (and other good people) would be armed.===
Ahh…so mentally ill people aren’t good people. Nice.
Seriously, drop the NRA’s playbook for once. A crowded aircraft isn’t your home.
Comment by GraduatedCollegeStudent Thursday, Mar 24, 16 @ 9:14 am