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* Yesterday, we talked about an op-ed written by John Terranova, who is Gov. Rauner’s Deputy Director of the CMS Office of Labor Relations. Terranova explained his op-ed in a letter to state employees…
In it, I correct AFSCME’s erroneous statement that employees who refuse to join the union at the picket line and remain at work become “at will,” a term reserved for a limited group of state employees who can be terminated without just cause. AFSCME’s claim is wrong. AFSCME employees continue to receive the same job protections even if they remain on the job and refuse to join the union on the picket line.
* AFSCME’s Anders Lindall responded today…
Rich –
We can’t imagine where John Terranova came up with the supposed “erroneous statements” alleged in his email and letter and wrongly attributed to us. AFSCME Council 31 has never published anything like these statements, nor are they accurate.
Terranova’s criticism of what he calls “AFSCME’s irresponsible strike talk” is likewise misplaced. Anyone paying attention knows that it’s Governor Rauner who boasted on the campaign trail that he’d force a strike and shut down state government, it’s Rauner who walked away from negotiations more than six months ago, and it’s Rauner who twice vetoed the fair arbitration bill we supported to prevent a strike and instead allow a neutral third party to help settle our differences.
Just as surely, anyone paying attention knows that AFSCME has repeatedly urged the administration to return to the bargaining table and join us in working toward an agreement that’s fair to all.
Anders
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 11:38 am
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Many things said by the Rauner administration have been inaccurate. What they said about AFSCME is more of the same.
Comment by DuPage Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 11:45 am
More oompa-loompa from the Rauner administration.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 11:48 am
Anders may want to have a pow-wow with the folks speaking to rank-and-file AFSCME members because the stuff Terranova mentioned about being at-will if we cross a picket line is exactly what I heard with my own ears. AFSCME may not have published this info. anywhere but it is certainly being communicated by at least some AFSCME reps.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 11:52 am
Judging by some of the comments here last night by those “in the know”, it does seem like this is a point of discussion amongst AFSCME employees. The fear mongering within agencies can be ridiculous and I don’t blame the Administration for clarifying the worker’s rights.
They could have done that without attributing the claims to AFSCME. I will be interested if they have proof or follow up. I’m also glad to see that AFCSME did come out and admit that the “at-will” narrative is false, and employees will still have protection.
Comment by Phenomynous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 11:59 am
Cubs in ‘16 is absolutely correct. I heard the same exact things straight from the mouths of union reps.
Comment by Cards in '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:03 pm
I’m glad this is back up today. I did some research and came up with this about “At Will”. I’m not a lawyer, nor am I an AFSCME official. It’s too much legalese for me and I’m hoping someone will be able to interpret it.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
There are 3 exceptions to At Will doctrine as they say. Two of which could be applied in our case here, public policy exception and more strongly Implied contract exception. I can see that maybe Implied contract exception could be the case but that’s why I ask that a legal person look at the above doc.
Look, I got huffed up yesterday about this but I’m on the receiving end of this crap. I acted a sea-lawyer when I shouldn’t have. I apologized to Demoralized and I will do so again. I’m not a lawyer or expert or union official. I’m just involved and engaged in this blog. Take a look at the above. If I engaged in fear-mongering I’m sorry. Again, I get worked up. But I’m always really going for the truth of the matter. I’m not trying to be perfidious. I still think that workers who resign from the union before they cross the picket line are At Will but with limited protections from the employee code, public policy exception, and implied contract exception. I think it is well proven that the Administration is extremely perfidious and misleading towards state workers. At least you know with me that I may be wrong but I’m always going to apologize and admit when I am. No one has proven me wrong on this yet. Just saying “your wrong” on such an important matter is just not going to cut it. I’m going to fight the perfidy as I see it. I think you can understand my sincerity to do my best for my union. But I got hot yesterday and slung some stuff that I’m not proud of. I again apologize. As Gandalf said in LOTR of Pippin, “He may be a fool, but an honest one.”
I want to continue to do the best job I can for the good people of my state. This career means a lot to me. Rauner is threatening my career and the good I do every day. No one here can deny the good things I do for those in need of our state. (Well Illinois Bob will but…you know) If you felt your job was worth fighting for wouldn’t you do it. If you felt the Governor was perfidious and destroying the state, wouldn’t you fight the perfidy as you saw it? Since no one legal was on yesterday, I stepped up and did the best I could. If I was/am wrong I’ll take responsibility as you’ve seen me do many times.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:06 pm
Anders did say that AFSCME never “published” any of this information. Too cute by half?
Comment by Phenomenous in '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:07 pm
AFSCME just needs to strike already and get the inevitable over with.
Comment by Blago '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:15 pm
Honeybear, have that info on the MAJOR wage concessions?
Comment by Warthog Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:20 pm
Afscme said this at a meeting I attended as well. they also made some bizzare comment about losing constitutional protection as well.
about 80% of what they said at the strike meeting was either false or so misleading the truth could not be seen.
and I doubt anyone will call me a pro rauner antiunion person
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:22 pm
My God Blago, nobody wants to strike. It’s not a outing in the park. As Anders said, only Rauner wants that. Rauner wants AFSCME to be the sin eater for all the damage HE’S caused to our state, including thousands of jobs in social services and literally over a million people effected by the loss of services.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:24 pm
Well said Ghost. All of the mixed messages are extremely frustrating. AFSCME members may have to make very difficult decisions that could have a huge impact on their families and careers. We NEED accurate information; not hyperbole.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:40 pm
I heard AFSCME reps saying this at meetings. I have not seen anything directly from AFSCME however.
Comment by Union Dues Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:40 pm
Are people saying they heard council 31 staff reps say this? Or are they saying they heard stewards say this? “Rep” and “steward” are sometimes used interchangeably, but that coming from an actual staff rep is way more official than it coming from some misinformed stewards.
Comment by steward Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:46 pm
staff reps were present
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:50 pm
===Are people saying they heard council 31 staff reps say this? Or are they saying they heard stewards say this? “Rep” and “steward” are sometimes used interchangeably, but that coming from an actual staff rep is way more official than it coming from some misinformed stewards.===
In my case it was a Council 31 rep. who said it at one of AFSCME’s informational meetings.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 12:51 pm
With the budget impasse *temporarily* out of the picture, the Governor can go back to messing with state employees. But AFSCME reps need to get their messaging together. I know its easier to just push/scare employees by using hypothetical situations, but this is one of those times you need to thread lightly.
Not only does AFSCME have to win the support of its workforce, but it also needs to win the public’s opinion. This is why CTU was successful in convincing parents, and a majority of Chicago.
Comment by here we go Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:02 pm
Honeybear:
I don’t know how many times it can be said. Employees will not be “at will.” If you want to continue down this path that is your choice but you are doing a disservice to anyone you tell this to.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:04 pm
Honeybear:
Besides, your union just told you it isn’t true. So enough.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:05 pm
Indeed, employees would be protected not only by the state’s last, best and final offer, but also by the state’s Personnel Code and accompanying rules,
Which includes language that allows outsourcing with no bumping rights, may as well be “at will” Not much in the personnel code other than federal guide lines and reference to the union contract.
Comment by Just Because Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:08 pm
=== Not only does AFSCME have to win the support of its workforce, but it also needs to win the public’s opinion.===
I agree. The message needs to be clear, factual, and free from hyperbole. If they don’t have their message in order, they will lose support from the public and from their own members.
Comment by Mr. Smith Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:14 pm
No one questioned John T. when he negotiated previous contracts. Why now? A bigger question, Will any other unions honor the AFSCME picket line since they have contracts?
Comment by pool boy Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:17 pm
Honeybear - When Rauner does it, you call is “perfidious”.
What is it called when AFSCME does it?
Such a joke….
Comment by allknowingmasterofracoondom Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:24 pm
There won’t be a strike. ILRB will tell Rauner to go back to the table and get the best deal for taxpayers he can get.
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:32 pm
=get the best deal for taxpayers he can get=
I believe that would be his best & last offer.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:35 pm
The big issue is still the contract Rauner is trying to force upon state workers. From what I’ve seen directly, virtually everyone rejects it.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:38 pm
But afscme won’t agree to that, which means a strike. No one accept Rauner wants a strike. Labor Board will tell Gov to meet them half way. Pay freeze, pay a little more for Healthcare and maintain restrictions on privatization. Will be approved in January. Mark my words.
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:38 pm
At t b e same time, afscme needs to convince everyone they will go on strike with Gov’s last best. To do this successfully they’ll need to get their message together and avoid fear mongering. I’ve heard union reps tout the at will line. This needs to stop.
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:40 pm
We don’t want to give the Gov any ammunition. It’s obvious to everyone except the Gov that his demands are unreasonable. They need to stick to this message.
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:43 pm
Since this is a novel thing that hasn’t happened before. Is it possible neither side truly knows what will happen. Reality is neither is lying just unsure?
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:51 pm
DHSJim, why don’t you outline what you make and your benefit package.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 1:57 pm
Regardless of the definition of “at will”, anyone who crosses the picket line has no guarantee of work location, hours, forced double shifts, pay,etc. If your job performance in your new (untrained) position does not measure up - YOU’RE FIRED!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:02 pm
Mason born- stop being logical, you know that doesn’t fly when it comes to this situation /s
Comment by Fixer Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:02 pm
anonymous is saying what i have heard said to people at meetings. if you come in or cross the line you have no guarantee what they will have you doing or where, not sure if they are obligated to pay you your salary or if they can come up with some other rate of compensation.
Comment by reasonable Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:14 pm
Honeybear - if “no one” wants to strike than why is AFSCME having meetings/communications about a strike?
Comment by Blago '16 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:16 pm
Blago, The best way to avoid a war is to be prepared for one.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:19 pm
Blago don’t be ridiculous, nobody ever wants to strike it is a last resort when you are faced with unreasonable demands, they have to poll people and w=see if they want to accept what is being offered or if not are they willing to exercise their right and force the issue for a fair contract and go on strike.
Comment by reasonable Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:19 pm
==nyone who crosses the picket line has no guarantee of work location, hours, forced double shifts, pay,etc. ==
Some of you just can’t help yourself can you. If you want to continue playing these games and continue to put out this false hyperbole so be it but you aren’t helping your cause.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:30 pm
This is Illinois….the public is on board with AFSCME regardless of what’s said. They have no worries.
Comment by cgo75 Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:32 pm
Demoralized - BITE ME!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:34 pm
Teranova only addressed the at will information, he aware of the comments about not being guaranteed you will be doing your job etc. and he never addressed it.
Comment by reasonable Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:41 pm
When you post as “Anonymous”, how would you even know who you are fictitiously supposed to bite?
Demo has a record of being accurate here. When the disinformation flies; I tend to believe him. And we’re hardly “like-minded” on a lot of topics. But he’s a straight shooter.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 2:54 pm
Exactly!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:00 pm
The union rep in our office ( who must be anonymous in the above posts!) has said it numerous times and in texts and emails, appears very pro-strike.
Comment by Danny Boy Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:07 pm
If someone were to cross a picket line during the strike (which is what I’d be more worried about than “at will”)
they don’t have a contract in effect and would be working under the terms set by the admistration. To think that going to work in that chaos would mean your job will be as ususal would be naieve. Now, will management be happy you’re there? Of course. They’re not going to be looking to ding someone who has sold out for their side. Will management have a lot of holes to cover and be using people in the best way to try and deal with that? Of course. Will your salary and benefits be whatever the administration sets it at? Yes. Again, you have no existing contract or tolling agreement at that point.
Honestly, these details aren’t as important as the bigger picture. What happens if a strike fails? Every public employee loses….for decades. Whatever you decide to do, do it together.
Comment by Moral Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:07 pm
Look, I get the fear and the frustration at the unknown. As I said, my spouse is in the union so I have a personal stake in the situation. But what I cannot stand is misinformation. This is a serious issue and everyone should be getting the most accurate information possible. What is being put out there is definitely not accurate. You can make a case for a strike without trying to scare people into the decision with false information. There’s enough factual ammunition to argue for a strike. The added peddling of false information doesn’t help. I swear I spend every other night reassuring my spouse that what she is being told simply isn’t true. You aren’t doing your members any favors by putting un-truths out there. It only confuses them.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:14 pm
Beeeep! Wrong!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:21 pm
All these people allegedly said this or that. The only problem, we have no names, no faces, no titles. Name some names folks.
Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:28 pm
” but it is certainly being communicated by at least some AFSCME reps”. I bet they talk about the weather too. Any official points are ALWAYS communicated in writing. You speak of this as if it’s a vast left wing conspiracy. Grow up.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:30 pm
I hope this goes up on the board. I was just told by somebody I trust that I was wrong. I’ll take their word. I apologize for any misinformation that I may have spread. I don’t know what to believe any more. I even did my own research to try to answer it myself. But there’s the problem right there. I’m out on my own. I’ve been thrown under the bus twice now, and I’m in reevaluation mode. I hope everyone will accept my honest apology and sincerity.
And yes racoondom when AFSCME does it it’s perfidy too. No matter who does it people get hurt and thrown under the bus.
I don’t trust Rauner or anything that comes out of his administration. I don’t think anyone can blame me.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:32 pm
Honeybear - if “no one” wants to strike than why is AFSCME having meetings/communications about a strike? Uhhhh, no other choice?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:34 pm
If you want to avoid a war you better be sure that you are prepared to fight one and win!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:36 pm
I predict ILRB will order Rauner back to the table. Then he’ll get up and walk away again, request another impasse ruling, and keep doing it until he gets a win or leaves office. No contract, no raises.
Comment by Onechair Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:51 pm
anonymous 3:34 we’ve got enough problems at AFSCME with complacency and apathy as it is. We have to educate our members in order to make the best decisions. This is a big one. It’s what I thought I was trying to do. Sometimes I wonder if people even know what Governor is in office. But still, don’t be daft. Who wants to strike and go through that. People want to know what could happen and what they need to do if Rauner pushes us towards that path which is what he has been doing from day one.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:53 pm
Honeybear:
I get it. The entire situation stinks. I just think the union needs to take a breath sometimes. It’s not helpful when there are 40 different messages being conveyed with bits of truth in each of those 40 messages and you have to try to piece together what those truths are. Believe me, it happens on my side as well. It’s frustrating beyond belief.
Big breath. Hold it. Exhale.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 3:58 pm
@onechair. Hope he does. Then tolling agreemen remains in place. He might be ideologically blinded enough to do that
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:09 pm
Emily Litella used to get highly riled with respect to stuff she misunderstood or misheard. I feel as if some of that type of thing is going on here. Difference is that Emily Litella was a character on a comedy show and this AFSME thing impacts people’s lives if they in good faith promote or act upon information about their union situation which is false.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:23 pm
I was at these informational meetings as well and a lot of members at the meetings were talking over one another and jumping to conclusions. I heard a member tell another member that employees who cross the picket line will be “at will” and the staff rep corrected them on the spot. People hear what they want to hear.
Comment by IllinoisForever Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:27 pm
** This is Illinois….the public is on board with AFSCME regardless of what’s said. They have no worries. **
Now THAT’s funny.
Comment by DGD Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:28 pm
Demoralized- it’s worse than 40 different messages. A couple weeks ago I was directly told something by someone I really trusted. I hit it hard on the blog (of my own volition, I’ve never been directed to say anything. Frankly I only know of a few union sisters and brothers who read the blog). So up and over the trench wall I go charging at the Rauner trench, nobody behind me, and I get shot to pieces. Then yesterday I go up and over the wall alone and get shot to pieces again. Both times told information that as far as I know now aren’t true. I mean they could be true. I thought they were true but it was based upon what the same person told me point blank. Now I totally don’t trust that person and I’m feeling like I’m not gonna show up tomorrow night. I made a fool of myself and I’m embarrassed and disillusioned. Again I’m on my own pretty much here with no oversight and Anders just threw me under the bus. Loving God I’m just trying to fight for my sisters and brothers.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:39 pm
Since no one has bothered to post the MASSIVE wage concessions made by AFSCME, my guess is they never happened.
Comment by Warthog Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:40 pm
“I predict ILRB will order Rauner back to the table. Then he’ll get up and walk away again, request another impasse ruling, and keep doing it until he gets a win or leaves office. No contract, no raises.”
That’ll be one heck of a lot of back pay for AFSCME members, once they do get a contract. The annual raises and step increases add up.
Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:46 pm
The union folks need to think before posting on this blog. Why? Rauner’s admin read this blog too. Its better to be safe than sorry when you are in the middle of contract negotiations. This means some thing are better left unsaid until a contract is finalized. If union members have questions refer them to Council 31’s Reps..
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 4:50 pm
too much oompa about “at will”
we do not want to strike…PERIOD, but if we do/
the contract blanket is on the sidewalk with the picket signs
staff who cross the line, no blanket
no blanket = a lot of ???s
pay
overtime
work location
job duties
i have been re-reading rauner’s contract proprosal
yikes
0 job security & a cut in pay due to insurance
i don’t see a choice but to strike but i hope dhsjim is right
Comment by spent Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 6:11 pm
Nick Name, I hope you’re right about the back pay but some DHS workers have spent years trying for it and come up short. I suspect Rauner knew when he signed the tolling agreement that a four year wage freeze was the best he could get. Now his goal is to keep that agreement going as long as he can.
Comment by Onechair Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 6:21 pm
Warthog, rauner’s administration knows what concessions we made. Their response was to go to impasse. (Literally minutes after.) Because to acknowledge them would be to tacitly admit we were reasonable and they would then need to respond in good faith. Since they declared impasse, they get to act like our proposals never happened. But they know it happened and the ILRB will have to do some contorting to prove we are at some mutual standstill. Because we aren’t…
Comment by steward Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 6:57 pm
=rauner’s administration knows what concessions we made=
Really? Why did it take a year? The last we saw published here, AFSCME was still demanding raises and 1.5x pay at 37.5 hours, from their broke employer.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 7:37 pm
A little history about the 37 1/2 hour week. This was the defined work week for most state workers prior to the first AFSCME contract. This was something that AFSCME did not have to bargain for although they have protected this ever since.
Comment by Johnnie C. Retired State Employee Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 7:52 pm
We had an informal meeting during break time with union reps the same day the admin’s email came out clarifying the “at will” issue. During the meeting our union rep absolutely said if we cross a picket line we will be “at will” employees and subject to termination without any additional protections. The email from admin was in my inbox when I got back to my desk…have to appreciate the timing.
Comment by Just Sayin' Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 7:58 pm
Honeybear, might be best to stay below topside for awhile until the seas are calmer. Good luck to you.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 8:15 pm
I’ve worked for the state for 30 years and have had a 37.5 hour week (with time and a half overtime past that) the whole time, so give us all a break and stop repeating Rauner’s line that this is a big new Union demand!
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 8:45 pm
My recollection is that the last, best, final said pay freeze, more in premiums (which should have been raise during the years when salaries went up with double digit contracts), 3 step bumping vs 8, and yes, greater ability to contract out work. Any changes to detailing and temp assignments? All of the scare tactics relate to things that I believe still have contract language. Tinfoil hats don’t look good on anybody.
Comment by Sense of a Goose Wednesday, Jul 20, 16 @ 10:54 pm
“Really? Why did it take a year?”
Umm was going on the whole time. And it would have kept going but they walked away from the table.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative…
Comment by steward Thursday, Jul 21, 16 @ 8:22 am
To “Sense of a Goose” - Great analysis, except if the Governor privatizes your job you won’t be around to enjoy the Governor’s wonderful “contract”.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jul 21, 16 @ 8:40 am
The question to be answered for all of this for State workers is, “Do you trust the Governor?”
Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jul 21, 16 @ 8:54 am
I’m wondering if there really will be strike fund provided by AFSCME national or lot. That would give us a lot of leverage.
Comment by Onechair Thursday, Jul 21, 16 @ 9:56 am
Not saying privatization is wonderful but have you read the current language and MOUs? The state can’t even contract out scanning projects to sheltered workshops (like SOS does/did license plates). A little give on some of the areas like that might have gone a long way.
Comment by Sense of a Goose Thursday, Jul 21, 16 @ 11:32 am