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Online voting? Lang wants to give it a look

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Illinois

Lou Lang proposes that the state take a look at Internet voting.

Internet voting has the potential to allow voters to cast their ballots from anywhere â€” from the office, the coffee shop or the living room in their slippers. This convenience holds the promise of attracting younger, tech-savvy voters to the polls and could also be a simpler alternative to absentee voting for citizens living abroad or serving in the military.

State Rep. Lou Lang, D-Skokie, has filed a bill calling for the state to study the idea, and possibly use Internet voting in Illinois elections as early as the 2010 gubernatorial race. […]

Michigan, as recently as 2004, allowed online voting in its Democratic presidential caucus. The result was the second-biggest caucus turnout ever of 164,000 votes, 46,000 of which were cast online. More importantly, there were no reports of security glitches, fraud or intimidation, according to Michigan Democratic Party spokesman Jason Moon.

Madison County Clerk Mark Von Nida worries about the privacy lost when voting is taken away from monitored polling places. “When you open up voting (by computer), you open up the possibility of people having to vote in front of their boss, or their union boss, just to prove that it’s done,” he said. “And of course, (the vote) would be (cast) in a way that’s how the person who coerced them wanted them to vote.”

Lang says that’s why he wants to study the issue first. Your thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 9:10 am

Comments

I think Rep. Lang needs to refocus his attention on a variety of more pressing needs that the legislature should be taking action on. Among those needs, he should start with investigating the court system to either prove or dispell rumors of influence by the unsavory element of our society; to investigate CFS to see if they are using screening techniques of calls made to the DCFS Hotline to reduce the number of cases entered into the system (and thus leaving some minors at risk); ways to improve mass transit in the Chicago area; how the porposed cutbacks in the Cook County budget might put extra demand on state-run services; and how to solve the state’s budgeting woes. I think those are a little more important, particularly for someone who is hinting of seeking the chairmanship of the Cook County Democratic Party.

Comment by fedup dem Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 9:34 am
Good idea. Worth a study.

Comment by Left Leaner Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 9:55 am
As indicated, voting should be a private matter, and in a polling booth it is. Michigan may not have had problems with one election using internet voting, but that does not mean such problems will never occur. What happens when an ISP breaks down or is hacked? Way too many security issues.

Voting is a privilege that comes with some cost. Getting to a polling place on election day is a very small price to pay to participate in the election of our representatives. If you can’t do that or take adavantage of the early or mail-in voting programs, you likely don’t care much.

Comment by Fan of the Game Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:07 am
Good Grief, Charlie Brown! Isn’t fraudulent voting easy enough as it is? Let’s take a look at this logically. Internet fraud is rampant worldwide. Confidence in the electoral process has been damaged by electoral fraud and alleged electoral fraud. Why don’t we open up voting to internet fraud! Brilliant!

Comment by HoosierDaddy Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:19 am
Internet voting has a place. If you don’t investigate the option, you remain ignorant. We have enough ignorance around here due to panicking politicians.

Go for it. See what it is good for.

Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:21 am
It’s fine to look into it, but if you can’t guarantee that it doesn’t multiply the chances of fraud then forget it. At least now the folks who commit vote fraud have to leave the house to do it.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:34 am
Yea study it…because it would never get screwed up in Cook County.

Comment by Scoot Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:46 am
I remain fundamentally suspicious of any form of voting without a paper trail.

That said, doesn’t hurt to look. People sneered at Apple IIes too.

Comment by ZC Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:53 am
we have extra money to spend on a *real* study? maybe we should send that extra money that must exist back to the pension funds that got raided…

Comment by bored now Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 10:59 am
It sounds interesting. I’m skeptical of the concept right now, but a good look won’t hurt. I think I’d rather let some other states kick the concept around before actually implementing it. If we could drive turnout (whatever that means when people don’t actually have to go out) up to say 70% that would likely be a good thing.

Comment by cermak_rd Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 11:18 am
Why don’t we just give all our ballots to the Chicago Machine and let them vote for us?

Internet voting is an interesting concept, but there’s way too much opportunity for vote fraud or intimidation. I think the unions and ward bosses will do exactly what’s being warned about in the article.

As a previous poster said, voting is a privilege. Get off your butt and go vote at your polling place (or vote early). If you’re too lazy to do that, then maybe you shouldn’t be voting in the first place.

Comment by The Ghost Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 12:16 pm
Von Nida hit this one right on the head. Internet voting would make getting to the polls pretty easy, but I don’t see any way to prevent union bosses, etc. from exerting undue influence on their membership. Unless someone can figure out a way to avoid that, there is no point in spending money the state doesn’t have on this stuff.

Comment by Gene Parmesan Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 12:25 pm
For nonbinding advisory referenda, I’d say go for it, but otherwise it’s impractical for this reason: generally speaking, every computer on the net gets a specific address, as those who have defied Mr. Miller with nasty postings or flackmail from the campaign office posing as Joe Everyman have discovered.

So if you Internet vote from your home computer, your specific vote can be tracked back to you by the government. If you want to maintain anonymity of the ballot, you could vote from the computer at the public library or some kiosk arrangement but then you’re just re-creating polling places, aren’t you? Why bother?

Plus, it’s too easy to hack the whole thing.

The best and easiest way to use internet voting is for nonbinding ‘opinion’ type surveys of the electorate, to give the legislators a snapshot view of voter sentiment, where said voters don’t care that their votes can be tracked back.

This snapshot view will have to be tempered by the knowledge that polls of this type can be skewed by dedicated posting campaigns. Look up how the kids, for fun, jammed the TRL polls at MTV requesting Devo’s “Whip it”, and won the poll outright but busted TRL’s policy of never actually using the polls to pick the playlist for the day, instead doing video payola picks.

Should the government pay to make and monitor voter polls, where currently campaigns have to pay for them? There may be arguments both pro and con to this.

Comment by Gregor Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 12:34 pm
http://lorrie.cranor.org/voting/hotlist.html good set of info on internet voting. BTW, internet voting is working well in many places.

Comment by Way Northsider Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 1:07 pm
I support the idea of Internet voting, but there are serious security concerns that must first be addressed. Those studying this issue should be required to read Secrets and Lies by Bruce Schneier. Heck, legislators implementing any system, regardless if electronic or paper based, should read it.

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 1:48 pm
It’s worth a look if security can be assured. Don’t need the Nigerian contingent to find a new option they can hack into. What is wrong with simply walking/driving to your registered vote location and filling out the ballot? It seems like there are other more pressing issues facing the state.

Comment by zatoichi Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 1:54 pm
My suspicion is that anyone over 35 opposes the idea and anyone younger, embraces it. I, however, am the exception because I am over 35 and I support the idea.

I find the argument that “union bosses” will strong arm their members to vote their way ridiculous. Most of these union members work in corporate America or in businesses that I believe would take exception to their standing over the workforce, using the company computers, to force people to vote for Hillary.

You naysayers always find fault with everything. But what you can’t do is offer solutions to these issues yourselves!

Comment by John Lee Pettimore Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 2:13 pm
Here’s a solution: let’s not waste anymore money trying to design fancy voting systems that are less reliable than a paper ballot.

Given all of the corruption at the city, county, state, and federal levels of government, is there any doubt a union boss, candidate, agency supervisor, etc. wouldn’t strong arm some votes out of their employees? Particularly given that patronage employees “owe” their jobs to said persons?

Comment by Gene Parmesan Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 2:24 pm
Do you really want a bunch of uneducated(on the issues and candidates) people, that can’t bother to go to a polling place, voting? I don’t know that 75% turnout is really that good, when it requires almost zero effort by the person voting. Taking 15 minutes out of your day to vote is a rather low price to pay to exercise your rights…

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 3:02 pm
This is news?

Rep Boland investiged the potential benefits (and pitfalls) of internet voting back in 2000 and 2001 when he was Chairman of the Election and Campaign Reform Committee (I staffed for him.) With current technology there are too many pitfalls for it to be considered seriously.

Comment by INDY Know Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 4:16 pm
One of the reasons voter turnout has been decreasing is due to the implementation of the National Voter Registration Act, which has swelled the numbers of people on the lists, but not increased interest and participation.

If you want to have internet voting in a binding contest, we better have safeguards in place (biometrics) that protect against fraud.

My two cents.

Comment by God's Country Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 4:22 pm
When ISPs like Comcast and AOL and the like can figure out how to actually meet their stated performance standards this might be a good idea.

Comment by NW burbs Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 4:44 pm
I am way over 35 and I support internet voting.

Comment by Way Northsider Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 4:45 pm
The timing for this is not right. You have a huge number of Illinois voters that wish we could do away with the new voting machines and simply go back to paper ballots (that we trusted). Many of us feel that “if it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it” when it comes to our way of casting our sacred vote.

Voting via the Internet would simply create more distrust within our system of voting. We have plenty of “conspiracy theories” already floating around without adding to more distrust.
I am sure that Rep. Lange meant well by suggesting this but our political representatives time could be better spent pondering on how we are going to get the Illinois state government out of the financial quagmire that we are in and are planning to hand over to our children as our legacy.

Comment by Beowulf Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 5:22 pm
Anonymous - Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 3:02 pm,

Yes, I do think we want them voting. They, if they are registered voters, are just as much Americans and just as much part of our democracy as the people who have memorized their ballot and personally know everyone running for the LSC and the judgeships. If we want them to care about the nation, we’ve got to get them to vote. A representative democracy isn’t very representative when only half the registered voters bother.

As for unions, how many people are in unions anymore? The trades and state employees, but how many others? Are union bosses really that big of a concern anymore? And wouldn’t the vote by mail as used in Washington state be subject to the same concerns, but it seems to be working fine. And they have had some tremendous turnout.

I’m still not sold on internet voting, even though it’s been tried in a few cases, I’d like to see a few states use it and see how it works out. I’d be concerned about hacking and privacy issues (as far as the server knowing how I voted.). Washington state gets around that with their vote by mail by having 2 envelopes, one with the secret ballot in it, the other with the return address & address of the collection station on it. I suppose something similar could be concocted, whereby the outer ip packet is stripped off and an interior header is maintained, but I can’t see it being as transparent.

Comment by cermak_rd Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 5:48 pm
Hmmm… I hadn’t considered that voting in person, in part, is designed to guarantee the security of the secret ballot. Considering that Internet voting might allow coercion in private, I’m changing my position–I no longer support Internet voting.

Comment by Squideshi Tuesday, Jan 23, 07 @ 8:37 pm
Internet voting is silly. By allowing internet voting we will be removing an important aspect of checks and balances from the voting process. How can I as a partisan know for sure who cast a vote on line? I’ve done enough canvassing to know that many family members differ in their voting patterns unbeknownst to their partners/spouses, parents etc. As a citizen I should have the right to contest someone right to vote if they do not live in the jurisdiction in which they are voting, how could this be done? How can someone be sure that I â€œRWPâ€ cast my vote and didnâ€™t sell my â€œpinâ€ to someone else to have them cast my vote? There is nothing wrong with voters going to their polling place and casting their vote. We spend too much time trying to adjust the system to increase voter participation when it is not the system which is broken it is the lack of integrity and ideas that fail to motivate voter participation

RWP

Comment by RWP Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 9:10 am
So we can barely handle optical scanners and touch screens, but Illinois is ready for voting via hotmail.com or something. Seriously? Does Lang just like to see his name in the paper… stop wasting time and energy

Comment by Get it straight Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:51 pm