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Obamarama - More on Daley, corruption and racial solidarity

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Mayor Daley’s two main challengers in the upcoming election, Dock Walls and Dorothy Brown, were more than a little peeved at Obama’s endorsement of hizzoner.

Bill “Dock” Walls called Obama’s endorsement of the mayor’s campaign a mistake and said it showed the senator’s political immaturity.

Walls called Daley the “godfather of corruption in Chicago” and said the endorsement will leave Obama on the “wrong side of history.” […]

Brown said she found it hard to believe Obama looked at Daley’s “whole record” and missed the level of corruption that has surrounded the mayor. She said she spoke to Obama just before his announcement Monday.

“I cautioned him about making such an endorsement because of how it will appear; especially given the extent of the corruption and scandals plaguing the Daley administration the past 17 years,” Brown said in a statement Monday.

Archpundit, responding to an opinion writer over at Election Central who said he was “surprised” that Obama didn’t endorse Brown, had this to say:

It took me a bit to stop laughing. I pointed out in comments Meeks called her a loser (and since apologized), but the larger thing is that no one of any import in Illinois is going to endorse someone against Daley unless someone like Jackson Jr. ran. […]

…endorsing a member of your party is hardly earth shattering behavior. […]

We have people who are pure in who they back and we call them Greens, Constitution Law Party Members and Libertarians. Good for them.

The Election Central writer in question, Eric Kleefeld, had this response to another sharp critique of his post, which claimed his commentary was the “the silliest statement I’ve ever seen on this site.”

It might not be surprising for Obama himself, but with all respect it is surprising to see a major black politician in this country endorsing a white candidate over a black one, whether we like it or not. If Jesse Jackson were running for President, do you think he’d go out of his way to endorse Daley?

To which ArchPundit sets him straight, pointing out that Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr., the reverend’s son, supported Forrest Claypool (white) against John Stroger (black) and Obama was neutral in the contest.

There are two schools of thought, here. One is that by endorsing Daley, Obama will fall victim to the ol’ “smear a geographic region” game, like the “Taxachussets liberal” phrase that was so popular in two presidential campaigns. This time it will be “Obama’s that guy from the corrupt Chicago machine.” Some also argue that the Daley endorsement can’t help much, because he already has Illinois and Chicago locked up, so it will only hurt.

The other, which I haven’t seen mentioned in print or online yet, is that Daley is hugely popular among his fellow mayors throughout the country. That gives him a large national network he can tap for Obama. A call from Daley to any mayor in the nation could do wonders for Obama, regardless of Daley’s problems at home. The mayors gush all over Daley.

Then, of course, there’s Bill Daley, who ran Gore’s campaign and SBC, and therefore has plenty of national and bigtime corporate connections.

Thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 11:50 am

Comments

For ordinary people who live in the city, corruption is of much less interest than how well the city functions in terms of traffic, crime, municipal services and so on. In all these areas, I have seen Chicago become a much more liveable place over the years. The reality is, most residents would support Daley for mayor. No reason for Obama not to.

Comment by Way Northsider Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 11:56 am
Howard Fineman of Newsweek was on MSNBC on Monday saying that Daley called him to clarify that Daley did not have a problem with the Clintons as
Fineman had reported. Fineman went on to characterize this call as Daley hedging his bets on the Presidential contest. This was on Hardball. Very interesting.

Comment by amy Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:05 pm
Amy, either that or Fineman got it wrong twice. He is a DC character, after all.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:07 pm
When Barack Obamma endorsed Todd Stroger, that set the tone for his future endorsement of anyone that the Democrat Party wants him to endorse. Barack is simply human and wants to be able to advance his political career. If Barack had failed to endorse those candidates that his Democrat Party leaders told him to, he would wind up being the Head of Animal Control in Cook County in another 4-8 years.

Many foolishly thought that here finally was a politician that was really “his own man”. They finally woke up and smelled the coffee after the Stroger and Daley endorsements by Obamma.

Comment by Beowulf Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:15 pm
Way Northsider hit the nail on the head. In an imperfect world, good men bent on doing good must know how to be bad. Daley, the big city mayors and now Obama understand that good government has very little to do with individual perfection and everything to do with results. A government of good results will always trump a government of good intentions.

Comment by thomas paine Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:28 pm
I wish Obama had as much interest in Chicago’s corruption as he does in Kenya’s. Obama missed a golden opportunity to endorse no one and set himself aside from the politics as usual he bemoans.

Hillary wants the Presidency badly. Her staffers must be frenetically building anti-Obama files. His deal with Rezko and endorsing Daley could come back to bite him in the hindquarters, especially with the Feds digging deeper into Springfield and City Hall.

Comment by Tom Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:29 pm
Beowulf, you think anyone in New Hampshire will care about Todd Stroger?

Tom, I’m sure that talking point about Chicago and Kenya will appear in the campaign later, but let’s try to move beyond simply spouting talking points.

And, please, we all know that Hillary will do OR on Obama. It doesn’t have to be brought up every ten minutes.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:33 pm
Lets talk scenarios.

It is easier to remember that Obama is from Chicago and Chicago has all that corruption, than it is to remember that there is network of mayors that Obama tapped into by endorsing Daley. The second scenario requires a voter to believe that it is a good thing to have a network of mayors, and that Obama was tapping into it. Tough sell.

It is easier to label Obama as the guy from corrupt Chicago. Everyone wants to naturally know where candidates are from, so any voter will know that Obama is from Chicago. It is a very easy jump to go from there to labeling Chicago as corrupt, therefore so is Obama.

As what naturally happens during campaigns is happening to Obama. Voters who saw him as their candidate are discovering that they need to compromise on who he really is. He isn’t a saint - no one is. Those naive enough to jump on the Obama bandwagon at this time will find it a rocky ride.

Sorry that we have African American leaders who expect Obama to behave a particular way. They have stereotyped him and are also learning that he is a real person with flaws.

I don’t like reading cynics who think an end justifies a corrupt means. Daley should not be allowed to escape scrutiny because he loves Chicago. He has allowed some real corruption to occur under his nose, and that is not a good thing regardless of outcome. What kind of a mayor would let stuff go on like he has? You can support the mayor, but please don’t expect every voter to have a stomach as strong as yours, OK?

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:41 pm
Perhaps Obama should reread his speech from Kenya. Who you crappin Barack?

Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:50 pm
===It is easier to remember that Obama is from Chicago and Chicago has all that corruption, than it is to remember that there is network of mayors that Obama tapped into by endorsing Daley===

Um, that’s not my point at all. Apples and oranges. Possible public perception vs. lining up support behind the scenes. I don’t expect voters to know what Daley might do for Obama with their mayors.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:51 pm
Why endorse a guy at risk of indictment? What ever edge Daley gives, can disappear awfully fast with that.

Comment by Bill Baar Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 12:54 pm
Can we also point out that Dorothy did nothing for Barack in the primary? Why the hell would he endorse her?

And as far as this quid pro quo thing, how about the theory that the Mayor picked up the phone and asked him?

Comment by Observer Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:00 pm
Rich, you were referring to Bill daley, the man who helped Al Gore snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory, right?

Comment by fedup dem Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:01 pm
Obama wagged his finger at me a few weeks ago and told me “If you want to get rich, don’t get into government”. He then got back into his SUV, drove out of the ghetto, and back to his million dollar house.

Who is zooming who when it comes to lecturing about corruption?

Comment by Leroy Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:24 pm
A government of good results will always trump a government of good intentions.

Mussolini, who’s claim to fame was making the trains run on time, will be pleased.

If Barack had failed to endorse those candidates that his Democrat Party leaders told him to, he would wind up being the Head of Animal Control in Cook County in another 4-8 years.

Free guess: The State Treasurer will return who’s call first - Obama’s or Democratic Party Leader’s?

SOTU Speech -

Hillary Clinton looked radiant.
Barack Obama looked ?.

Comment by True Observer Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:32 pm
By today’s “standards”, this would really have screwed up the nominating chances for then Governor Franklin Roosevelt, since he reluctantly supported the Tammany Hall machine to get elected governor.

Comment by Rod's Brush Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:33 pm
Jesse Jackson? The guy who just recorded a radio ad to help ComEd raise electrical rates?

Rev. Jesse Jackson would endorse anyone he needed to if there was something in it for him.

Ask ComEd how much they had to give to Rainbow/PUSH to get the Rev to do their radio ad.

My guess is that amount would be a good opening bid for the Rev’s endorsement.

Comment by Carl Nyberg Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:34 pm
We are talking about Obama endorsing Mayor Daley not Ald. Troutman. The reality check is the scandals have not personally touched the Mayor and there has been no accusation of him enriching himself. Mayor Daley is very popular throughout the country because he is recognized as a great mayor. Only the purest of souls will be offended by Obama’s endorsement.

Another issue is endorsing Dock Walls or Dorothy Brown in spite of the Mayor’s successful leadership would create the perception that Obama’s endorsement is based on race. This would make people think of him as another traditional “African-American politician” like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton.

Finally, I don’t think Obama would have a chance without the Daleys. Their backing brings people, money, national connections, credibility, etc., etc.

Comment by Objective Dem Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 1:38 pm
First–fact check me–now that Rich linked to me–is that correct about the Jacksons and the Shaws? I wrote it and immediately couldn’t remember if I was close there and it’s not the easiest thing to look up.

Second, for all the bellyaching about Richard Daley, he’s an incumbent Mayor with no serious opposition. If the public were truly clamoring for change wouldn’t their be a good candidate in the race? These two aren’t even Bobby Rush’s.

It’s fine to criticize Daley and there’s a lot to criticize, but he’s also pretty popular. Endorsing a popular Mayor with ethics problem in his administration isn’t exactly a something you wouldn’t expect from most politicians. Who is running for President who hasn’t done something similar?

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:16 pm
Thought that Bill Daley was already helping Obama’s exploratory cmte. So he had Bill before the Mayor.

Comment by Cornelius Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:26 pm
“Then, of course, thereâ€™s Bill Daley”

We must remember that the primary season will look different in 2008. February 5 will likely involve races in several states, including California and Florida. Obama needs to raise a ton of money to compete with Clinton on the airwaves in all of those states. Having Bill Daley on his team will help him do that. Endorsing Dorothy Brown will not.

If Obama is on TV in Los Angeles and Miami 12 months from now, you can thank Bill Daley for helping make that possible.

Comment by Boone Logan Square Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:27 pm
“We have people who are pure in who they back and we call them Greens, Constitution Law Party Members and Libertarians. Good for them.”

I consider that a compliment. Thanks.

“Second, for all the bellyaching about Richard Daley, heâ€™s an incumbent Mayor with no serious opposition. If the public were truly clamoring for change wouldnâ€™t their be a good candidate in the race? These two arenâ€™t even Bobby Rushâ€™s.”

Not necessarily. The majority may actually want to replace Daley, but no one might be willing to run because of the political machine that the Daley dynasty has built and still controls.

“Then, of course, thereâ€™s Bill Daley, who ran Goreâ€™s campaign and SBC, and therefore has plenty of national and bigtime corporate connections.”

That’s great. This is exactly what we don’t need–corporations–ficticious legal persons–more involved in government.

“The other, which I havenâ€™t seen mentioned in print or online yet, is that Daley is hugely popular among his fellow mayors throughout the country.”

Rich, is this just your impression; or have you seen something that supports this idea?

Comment by Squideshi Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:32 pm
[…] covers several angles and links to my contents on Muckraker. I followed up today–I’m not sure about the Shaw portionso correct me if I’m wrong. [link] […]

Pingback by ArchPundit » Blog Archive » More on the Obama Endorsement of Daley Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:34 pm
Comments?

Yes. The way things are going, this blog should be retitled “Obama Central” brought to you by the “Capitol fax blog”.

Comment by Papa Legba Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 2:55 pm
“It might not be surprising for Obama himself, but with all respect it is surprising to see a major black politician in this country endorsing a white candidate over a black one, whether we like it or not.”

THEY MUST NOT HAVE TAKEN A VISIT TO SENATOR OBAMA’S CHICAGO OFFICE AT 230 S. DEARBORN. WHEN YOU WALK IN NOT ONE BLACK PERSON!

Comment by What's new? Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 3:18 pm
Ms. Dorothy Brown, Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County should discontinue using corruption as her platform.

The Clerk’s office is cluttered with corruption; missing files, improper data entered into the computer system, employees assisting opposing counsels by meddling in cases, unhappy judges due the Clerk’s offices failure to operate effectively.

All you have to do it go to one of the Clerk’s offices’ at 50 W. Washington and you’ll hear the feedback and can watch it for yourself.

Dorothy Brown should clean house at the Clerk’s office first before trying to clean out someone elses house.

Comment by One_Mcmad Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 3:23 pm
Squideshi,

Mayor Daley was elected by his peers as President of the US Conference of Mayors. He has also won awards from this group. That strikes me as good evidence that he is popular nationwide with other mayors.

There are problems with the idea of backing only 100% pure candidates. First off, I want someone who will get things done and help people rather than a saint who can’t accomplish anything. Second, many of the people you think are so saintly just haven’t gone through the media wringer. Third, we recently saw the results of people backing a “pure” candidate, when Ralph Nader cost Al Gore the election.

I always think of Paul Simon as one of the most decent and honest human beings ever. But even he made a deal with the Richard J. Daley to get backing in his run for Governor. Unfortunately, the people wanted someone more pure and honest, They wanted someone who courageously stood up to the Daley machine. So they passed over Simon for Dan Walker. Remember him, he was one of the worst governors in Illinois history and then went to prison for fraud.

Comment by Objective Dem Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 3:29 pm
“Mayor Daley was elected by his peers as President of the US Conference of Mayors. He has also won awards from this group.”

Okay, so Daley may be popular with the Mayors of the 1,139 cities, with over 300,000 population, that the US Conference of Mayors represents.

“Third, we recently saw the results of people backing a ‘pure’ candidate, when Ralph Nader cost Al Gore the election.”

Nader didn’t cost Gore the election. Bush beat Gore in Florida by 543 votes. Half of all registered Democrats did not even bother going to the polls and voting; and according to the San Francisco Chronicle, “Twelve percent of Florida Democrats (over 200,000) voted for Republican George Bush.” If even one percent of these Democrats had voted for their own candidate, Gore would have easily won Florida.

Every single party on the ballot received more than 543 votes. Do you also blame the Natural Law (2,281); Workers World (1,804); Socialist (622); and Socialist Workers (562) parties?

I suggest that you educate yourself further on this issue.

Comment by Squideshi Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 3:57 pm
First of all, the notion that Daley would call a reporter from Newsweek himself to clarify his position on the Clintons is silly. Some PR person probably called him - so big deal. It means nothing. What does Daley need with the Clintons? They owe him for all the votes he got Bill. Please see a journalist puffing himself up for what it is.
Secondly, This has nothing to do with good-versus-bad, curroption-versus-the public interest. Only those who think Obama is a saint would wrestle with this in such a way. How do you think he got to the state senate in the first place — bucking Daley. Not likely.
Think it through. How can Obama endorse one of two losing horses. When they get trounced, it notches down his perceived political clout. And perception is reality in politics. The story would be “Obama’s clout doesn’t go far” right as the presidential election heats up. Also, what will he do when horrible stories come out about Walls’ and Brown’s own curroption. As their only backer, he would have to answer questions about their records. These candidates are far from saints, the only reason they get a pass is because they are not really in the public eye. If they won they would be just as curropt as Daley, if not worse. And they wouldn’t know how to manage a city, only give handouts to their supporters. Plain and simple. This is a non story.

Comment by Get it straight Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:09 pm
Also,

=== Perhaps Obama should reread his speech from Kenya. Who you crappin Barack? ===

Comparing Chicago politics to Kenya — I mean seriously.

Comment by Get it straight Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:14 pm
I will actually take back my statement that Nader cost Gore the election. But only because Gore won the election if all the votes were properly counted.

Nader did hurt Gore more than the other fringe parties you cite. The reality is their supporters were not going to vote for the Democrat, regardless of who was running. However, many people who normally vote for the democratic candidate, voted for Nader instead. I know them personally so don’t try to say it aint so.

The second reason is Gore had to fight a two front campaign, with Bush on the right and Nader on the left. Not only did Nader take away some resources that otherwise would have gone to Gore, but Gore was forced to use some of his resources fighting Nader. If I remember correctly, Nader was far more aggressive going after Gore than Bush. Or at least that is how the media covered the story. I don’t have any hard evidence but it is logical to assume that Nader’s constant criticism also caused many traditional dems to just sit out the election.

Comment by Objective Dem Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:16 pm
“I will actually take back my statement that Nader cost Gore the election. But only because Gore won the election if all the votes were properly counted.”

That’s correct, and Greens were vocal advocates in support of an investigation; however, when the Congressional Black Caucus attempted to register an objection to the certification of the result, they only needed one Democratic Senator to join them, and not a single one would! Probably the only one quicker to concede than Gore was Kerry in 2004, despite the fact that Greens documented all sorts of irregularities in Ohio and two election workers there were just convicted of rigging the election recount that Greens funded!

“Nader did hurt Gore more than the other fringe parties you cite.”

Actually, according to the Democratic Party’s own exit polls, Nader helped Gore. Al From, DLC Chair, wrote in Blueprint Magazine that Bush would have beat Gore by one percentage point had Nader not run. Why? Nader energized new voters, who would have not otherwise voted, and who would have certainly not have voted for Gore. Not to mention that many of these switched at the last minute and voted for Gore.

“The second reason is Gore had to fight a two front campaign, with Bush on the right and Nader on the left.”

Gore was such a terrible candidate, that he deserved to be challenged on the issues.

Comment by Squideshi Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:44 pm
Questions surfaced about the sweetheart real estate deal(s) with indicted neighbor Tony Rezko and now this… pretty hard to look squeaky clean when he wraps his arms so nicely around those close to (alleged) corruption.

Comment by North of I-80 Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 4:44 pm
Richiepooh is becoming quite the Obama apologist. It will be fun to watch El Richbo get angrier and angrier as Obama’s star fades. I already see some tarnish on the edges.

Comment by zatochi Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 5:18 pm
Rich Daley has a lot to be concerned about with the Area 2 and Area 3 sadistic torture scandals with Jon Burge and other police officers. The testicles were electrocuted, genital mutilitaion, electrocution of eye sockets, throwing people out of windows, Russian Roulette, guns in mouth, severe beatings, burning people. Real disgusting and inhumane stuff.

Obama needs to deal with real racism and police torture, things he didn’t have to deal with in Hawaii or Harvard. Daley was State’s Attorney and turned a blind eye to get high conviction rates, many times of innoncent people. Devine was actually Burge’s attorney. This is hard core racism and evil.

Obama needs to confront Daley about racism and corruption.

Comment by Dotson Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 6:22 pm
Tony Resko is not done yet, not by a long shot.
Much more to come

Comment by Alessama ali baba Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 6:24 pm
Who sent Resko to corrupt Obama? A working class guy ends up in a mansion and friends of Daley. Hillary will eat this guy alive, and spit him out. Hopefully, if Hillary wins, she will keep our Patrick Fitzgerald to mopping up the filth in Chicago City Hall.

Comment by Patrick McDonough Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 7:00 pm
Squideshi,

You definitely win the chutzpah award of the week, with the allegation that Nader actually helped Gore in 2000. I am intrigued and will try and keep an open mind. I read Al From’s article you cited and it’s a very brief, passing reference - no real data, no evidence, no solid interpretations to build on.

What states in 2000 do you think Al Gore would have lost, besides Florida, had Nader not been in the race? I assume you think Florida would have still gone to Bush even had Nader not run. Any other states you think Gore would have lost in addition? Not saying I buy this in the least, but am willing to listen.

Comment by ZC Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 9:08 pm
What is the first thing a smart politician in Chicago learns? “Don’t back no losers.” Daley will win by another landslide, which he deserves and Obama will have backed another winner.

Comment by Paddyrollingstone Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 9:47 pm
How smart is Obama really? Why even risk this when Daley has no chance of loosing, even with an indictment. Just stay out of it. Would Daley endorse Hillary over St. Obama? I know Obama is smart, but the whole Rezko thing and now this, following his speech in Kenya is making him seem less of a diety and more of a mortal.

Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 9:49 pm
Why all the hubbub? Obama endorsed Blagojevich for re-election too EVEN over a proven viable alternative like Rich Whitney and the Green Party. (for those not able to detect sarcasm, there’s an implied snicker as you read the previous line, and this one too for that matter) Obama clearly knows nothing about winning politics. Trend story?

Rich, this “need to know” basis for Obama updates certainly is off to a fun start. When’s the election?

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Wednesday, Jan 24, 07 @ 9:55 pm
Obama didn’t see a need to pick between Stroger and Claypool.

Why he needs to pick between Daley, Walls, and Brown still a mystry for me. I see risk and whatever fundraising Daley’s can bring; Obama could out do on his own.

Comment by Bill Baar Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 6:57 am
The shelf life of the Torture allegations is way past due. Flint Taylor, again, took it to the U.S. Supreme Court and again - it got tossed.

Jayne Byrne was Mayor and cops got killed and detectives were told to bring in the killers. Leftist journalists like Shelly Abramsky concocted a story that Northwestern University Prof and Convicted ( pardoned) Felon Bernadine Dohrn Ayers pushed on law students and journalists that Burge ( an enlisted man) was a Trained torturer ( he was in Vietnam; Vietnam was Bad; ergo Burge was a trained torturer) and for nearly thirty years the PLO has tried to win the Lotto on this one. It is a sexy news story.

Saying so don’t make it so, no matter how loud or how long ( Byrne Washington, Orr, Sawyer that’s alot of Mayors and you smart guys know that Mayors control everything - and could have brought any number of cases against Burge or anyone else - but did not). If they had a case they would have tossed Burge twenty years ago.

I think some really bad people avoided the neddle thanks to PLO and some people who want to keep this racially explosive story out front - it keeps the Police Department and all Law Enforcement as a convenient straw-man. Old timey cops slapped and might even have punched some tugs - where is the nut zapper? Where is the mythical steam pipe in Area 2 that burned so many innoicent Black ( and recently Hispanic where’d they come from?) Men? Where is the evidence? Why has not ANY branch of government brought charges against anyone? They have not. They will not. But, the racial Roswell stories will help phony activists, lawyers, and political wannabees.

Comment by Pat Hickey Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 8:14 am
As someone did cite earlier to correct Rich’s initial post, Obama did take sides in the County Board President’s race. His silence was deafening and then the dagger– the letter with Durbin. Between Stroger and Daley, we see that Obama is still just a politician, albeit of a higher caliber in many respects. As much as I like him, boo on his local decision-making! It was laughable he was the Dems’ front man on ethics and pork!

Comment by Ambulance chaser Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 11:36 am
“What states in 2000 do you think Al Gore would have lost, besides Florida, had Nader not been in the race? I assume you think Florida would have still gone to Bush even had Nader not run. Any other states you think Gore would have lost in addition? Not saying I buy this in the least, but am willing to listen.”

I actually think that all of this is ultimately irrelevent, because to say that Nader somehow took votes from Gore makes the assumption that these votes automatically belonged to Gore in the first place. I don’t believe that Gore was automatically entitled to any votes–candidates must compete to earn the votes they receive. If candidates, like Gore, are permitted to simply take the electorate for granted, they will ignore the electorate’s issues.

In fact, this is exactly what Gore’s Democratic Leadership Council had in mind–they thought that if they moved the party further to the right, and became more like Republicans, they could capture more of the swing voters, and their base would have nowhere else to go. They wanted to take the base for granted, but they were livid when the Green Party gave people a real alternative.

The Democratic Party has a good deal of responsibility for allowing the “political center” in this country to be constantly redefined and shifted further right. Every time the Democrats move right, the Republicans retreat further right.

Not only is the political center constantly shifting right (winning battles but loosing the war) but voter turnout is dropping. Why? People aren’t interested in politics. They aren’t impressed or inspired with any of their choices.

I say let the Democrats follow the Republicans ever futher right, in pursuit of that ever-shrinking pool of elusive “swing voters.” Greens are focused on new voters–an entirely different tarket market.

This also seems to have somewhat of a balancing effect on the Democrats. For example, I don’t think that Gavin Newsome would have solemnized gay marriages out in San Francisco, had he not been running against a strong Green candidate.

Comment by Squideshi Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 12:20 pm
Pat Hickey, you are not aware of the facts on police torture in Area 2 and other places.

Please read:
www.chicagoreader.com/policetorture

Thank you and best wishes

Pete

Comment by Dignan Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 4:27 pm
Squideshi,

I get that argument, but to me, in turn, it seems ultimately irrelevant in a different sense. We’re talking past each other, but I think we understand the other person’s point.

I agree that nobody has an automatic right to anybody’s votes. Or to anybody’s endorsement … For me Dorothy Brown failed the credibility test when she overreacted to the “loser” comment. I think she put away any chance of winning the election right there. You have to display an oxhide skin if you want to succeed in Chicago politics. Dorothy Brown appears to have a large ego (no problem), but also, perhaps, a fragile ego (big, big problem).

Comment by ZC Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 6:00 pm
Hickey, Hickey, Hickey
Look at the Special Prosecutor’s report. It was NOT the smoking gun that Flint, and Locke and your WASPY and Jewish non Leo grads that you love so much BUT it also said that Burge, and Boffo, and a bunch of other Police officers SHOULD of been Indicted and WOULD of been convicted but boo hoo the statute ran.

Burge was fired. He had money and good lawyers behind him. He had political friends. The FOP was behind Burge.

Not only did the Special Prosecutor’s report, NOT the Peoples Law Office not Northwestern or DePaul or the law schools or Amnesty International or the Coalition to End the Death Penalty or gay liberal Jebbies BUT the City of Chicago’s OWN law department including Sheila O’Grady the sister of Paul O’Grady the Chief of Staff to your beloved Sheriff. The US Attorneys is STILL looking into this.
The OPS reports (2 of them) including the famous Goldston report.
The UN is looking into it.
Amnesty International made conclusions about it.

Maybe nobody got in trouble Patricius because it was covered up. And the 7 million dollar Special Prosecutors report said people should of got in trouble including Burge, and that TORTURE DID occur, including suffocation and electrocution.
2 OPS Reports
The Special Prosecutors Report
TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LATER
YOU can blame the liberals, Northwestern, communist journalists, Flint, Locke BUT maybe you should BLAME the racist, violent, sociopathatic, sadistic cops that not just one story but the City of Chicago, 2 OPS Reports, even the Mayor, the Special Prosecutors Report, Amnesty International, Chicago Tribune, and the Chicago Reader.

Argue with the facts, don’t just attack people (don’t you teach ad honimem and staw men and logical fallacy at Leo?)

Barack Obama is fine and it is a strech to link him to torture. BUT there are questions by Daley despite his admissions that should be answered.

Comment by Boyle Thursday, Jan 25, 07 @ 6:18 pm