Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar

Thanks for the props, but we need to do a whole lot better

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Illinois

* Eric Zorn once reveled in the commenter community he helped nurture on his blog. But new Tribune rules prevented him from banning the worst of the worst and he gave up…

I now cheer when media sites shut down their comment threads and hope the idea spreads. Public radio network NPR was the latest, switching off its forum Aug. 23 citing the prohibitive cost of effective moderation, the comparatively small slice of web visitors who participated in the scrum (less than a 10th of 1 percent) and the migration of online debate to social media. […]

The loudest, most polarizing participants come to dominate most comment-thread “conversations.” They wander from the point to attack each other, the publication and the writer with name-calling and innuendo — anything that can get past the profanity filters — which, paradoxically, drives off those with actual contributions to make. […]

Comment threads are more usefully interesting to readers at sites such as CapitolFax.com, the Illinois politics blog, where proprietors invest considerable time and enforce no-nonsense rules to maintain focus and civility in their comment areas.

But that sort of investment doesn’t appear to be scalable for big media.

We most definitely have our problems here. I’ve been deleting more and more comments as election day approaches and as an AFSCME showdown with Gov. Rauner nears. I expect banishments will exponentially increase in the coming days and weeks. There’s just not enough respect for other viewpoints and it frustrates me to no end.

Try to keep that in mind as we move forward. You may think you have the right to say whatever you want, and you do as long as it’s on your own turf. This is my turf, however. You are all guests. Try to act like it.

Thanks.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 9:43 am

Comments

You do a very good job Rich. Must if the posters here also do a good job of sticking to commenting on topic and politely disagreeing with each other. I do not blame media sites for shitting off comments. ABC still allows comments. Must if which are stupid. They allow so much through, but they ban people over stupid stuff.

Comment by Thoughts Matter Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 9:53 am
Thank you for all you do. Now one question…shoes on or off?

Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 9:54 am
Rich:
Suffice to say, I appreciate your forum for stimulating debate, and have on several occasions typed, then backed away from the keyboard before deleting altogether diatribe not fit for consumption. So many of us would be better to remember to make things personal, just don’t take things personal - in our conversational combat, and try best to use facts rather than fiction or bias. I have great respect for many of the posters on this blog, even those I completely disagree with - which is why I love this country so much for the opportunity.

Comment by Captain Illini Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 9:57 am
In a country where a presidential candidate literally insulted his way to the nomination, Cap Fax is a rare venue.

I appreciate the rules here. They keep it from turning into a verbal machete fight. I also appreciate the expertise of many of the commenters. They’re intelligent and say things worth thinking about.

You’re right, Rich. We’re all guests here. When we get too obnoxious, the host has the right to tell us to leave the party–and not come back.

Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:01 am
What happened to Wordslinger? Don’t tell me he was banned, or worse yet, gave up on commenting on Capfax. Missing his sharp wit, and informed, incisive commentary.

Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:06 am
I check in daily, but I no longer comment daily. This is because I believe that if I have nothing different from what I’ve posted previously or nothing that differs from what is being said, then I’m wasting everyone’s time.

After 15 years, I’ve learned a lot about blogging from Professor Miller. He’s a great editor. He’s made my contributions here relevant and has made me look far more sane than I’ve been through the years.

We’re going through very emotional times. It’s harder to be the adult in the chat room. Our elected leaders are not leading. Their political solutions are to divide us. This has been reflected here.

Whether it be the TEA party, the Bernie Brigade, the Anti-fracker, the Anti-taxers, the Trump supporters or the Clintonistas, insults won’t win. Building voting coalitions require respect.

Everyone votes. It is wrong to denigrate voters. It is wrong to denigrate good bloggers. No one likes a smart-alec. Just don’t do it.

Thank you Rich for your sandbox. Thank you for keeping the bullies out.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:11 am
Thank you Sir for the reminder. I need to take a minute to thank Honey bear and O. W. for answering my question yesterday. Business called me away and it was late when I saw those responses.

This site is the best political news source in or about Illinois. Much of what is discussed here is close to the heart and the pocketbook. In order to learn or teach anything be the gentle soul your mom tried to raise. Use your real name when you can. What is said here is more permanent than you might think.

Comment by Matt Vernau Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:14 am
Interesting. I haven’t read the Tribune for twenty years, and now they want to charge to read articles. My household growing up had a seven day per week subscription to the Tribune.

Starting in politics as a teenager, and having cronies who had positions ranging from State’s Attorney to the State Department, I thought I had a pretty good understanding of state, local, and national government.

I have my areas of expertise, but the best thing I can say about the Cap Fax forum is that there are commenters here who are probably smarter than I am. When I’m interested in a bill number, someone throws it out there. Then I can contact my Reps. and (hopefully) influence public policy in a good way. I consider Cap Fax a public resource that promotes good government, which is what every citizen should want in the end. Thanks for putting in the time Rich.

Comment by Payback Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:15 am
just had an image of you as jack nicholson…. go sell cracy somewhere else, were all full up here……

Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:20 am
One of the best things about CapFax is that it is heavily monitored. It puts people in the situation where, in order to comment, they need to think about the topic.
I’ve learned a lot here.
Thanks for the opportunity, Rich.

Comment by Belle Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:23 am
Is it ok if I pet Oscar? A good guest should ask first.

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:25 am
Copy that, sir!

Comment by Just Chilling Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:26 am
Thanks for this Rich and for providing a civilized forum here. It troubles me that “big media” is moving away from public comment however, because of costs, etc. When columnists and reporters publish on issues of the day, a lack of feedback, even if vehemently in opposition, tends to lead to an echo chamber where the media dictates its views rather than starts and engages in a conversation. I think just shutting off responses and debate totally is a poor thing for an institution which relies so much on its freedom to report and say sometimes controversial things to do.

Comment by Ron Burgundy Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:29 am
I am so grateful for this site. It is daily instruction for me in politics, civil discourse and debate. I try to figure out why the “invisible hand” didn’t allow something to post at all or why it was allowed to make the late edition. It is so important to my life. I am so thankful for a chance to engage in democracy and community in this way.

One question though. When a post doesn’t make it. Should I try again toned down or restated not to offend but to preserve a good point? Or should I just drop it? I want learn and improve that’s why I ask.

Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:33 am
This is one of the few groups I still view for the very reasons you stated. Thank you.

Comment by d.p.gumby Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:40 am
As the parent of two boys, I know civilization is not inevitable, its a bloody miracle and must be constantly renewed.

Thanks for weeding the garden.

Comment by Fred Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:48 am
Rich,
Your blog is a lot of fun and the commenter’s content is often well-thought out. I truly appreciate, and I’m sure others do as well, how you will interject when someone is either getting off-base or are peddling talking points as opposed to evidenced based facts. Keep up the good work!

Comment by The Muse Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:51 am
My last post isn’t here- guessing it’s trapped because I thoughtlessly used a word that Rich then has to moderate. I really appreciate the comments on this site because they usually contain explanations and information new to me. Without that, I don’t understand politics near as well. Commenters here make an effort to stay on topic and politely disagree.

Other media sites let their comment section devolve into name-calling and 4th grade arguments. Commenters that deserve to get banned are not, while many people get banned because posters disagree with the opinion for no good reason. I think Trump detractors are routinely reported by Trump supporters, for example, multiple reporting then gets them banned.

Comment by Thoughts Matter Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:52 am
Agree 100%. The news site comments have become a wasteland for trolls and vitriol. It’s unhealthy.

Comment by Shytown Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:54 am
Thanks, Rich, for your tolerance. The other day I posted a comment that was over the top and was deleted. I don’t want to do that again and am grateful that I wasn’t banned.

We have to remember that no matter how much “righteous indignation” we have, it won’t change a thing in the world when we rant in comments sections.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:02 am
I really appreciate your work keeping the comments section civilized. I think all the regular commenters are pretty civilized on their own, but of course there are trolls who come out from under their bridges from time to time.

There are many forums that require one to use Facebook (which I won’t do for a variety of reasons), with the excuse that having one’s real name on the post means a person is less likely to be vitriolic. Yet I see people posting the vilest, most racist garbage with their names attached.

If you’re a jerk, you’ll be a jerk whatever the platform. If you’re a decent human being, the same holds.

I started coming here because Eric Zorn would often link to you. I stayed because of the sensible conversation.

Comment by JoanP Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:03 am
I appreciate the tone Rich sets and maintains here. People are allowed to be passionate but not really obnoxious. All you have to do is follow a few rules. And if you are creative enough, you can communicate your opinions and feelings without resorting to the use of obscenities

Like others, I often write a long screed and then delete it or edit it before posting … partly because of Rich’s rules and partly because rereading things helps better organize my thoughts.

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:09 am
Now that FB allows people to create accounts using nicknames and pseudonyms, requiring a FB sign-in is not effective in deterring incivility. Careful monitoring and clear rules are indispensable to having a civil comment site where trolls don’t dominate.

I too miss Wordslinger and Vanilla Man as well.

Comment by anon Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:10 am
While I choose not to use a nickname, I appreciate you allowing me not to do so. It’s annoying to some, but concentrate on the worth or lack of it in the comment. Rich, you set the standard for the type of quality, and “attitude” allowed, exercised and excised in a forum such as this.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:12 am
Rich, sorry you have to deal with that on an increasing basis. I keep hoping that my words never include ones on the banished list. the list I had of those from your cautionary tale a while ago is somewhere on my desk.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:20 am
Rich, I was telling my wife the other day how much I enjoy your comment section because you police it.

Comment by Former State Employee Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:21 am
Thanks for the fair warning. I’ll try hard to be cool and not jacked up.

Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:37 am
I’ve read your blog for a few years, but only just worked up the courage to start commenting. I really do appreciate the comparative level-headedness, patience, and thoughtfulness that is shown on this blog. I must say that I feel like this blog helps me be a better, more informed Illinoisan. I’m saving up for a subscription just for that fact.

In short: Thanks!

Comment by Chicago_Downstater Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:47 am
Every one should have the same rules that you have over the comment box. Wouldn’t help everywhere but it does make me think before putting something dumb up.

Comment by The Way I See It Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:47 am
“This is my turf, however. You are all guests. Try to act like it.”

That is why I always bring a six-pack of beer when visiting CapFax.

Cheers to you, Mr. Miller!

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:52 am
Appreciate the use of nicknames. But if this moved to a facebook or other identifier used, I would stop immediately. SJR requires a log in and I quit postin’

Comment by Dr X Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 11:54 am
There is no place like Rich’s Place, and this shop, I’m glad it’s a place I can hang out.

I never forget… I am but a guest, and I’m grateful.

Sam/Frank

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:03 pm
This site is undoubtedly better because it is well moderated, thanks Rich! One suggestion that might reduce usage of the ban hammer and reduce typos - post preview. The comment box is fairly small, especially on an (increasingly popular) tablet or mobile device. Seeing the complete comment would give folks the opportunity to make revisions before their comments are posted. It would also be less frustrating to know if a comment was held for moderation, or went off into the aether due to some technical issue. Reducing commenter frustration just might make our comments more rational.

Comment by AC Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:04 pm
Rich,

I too would like to offer my most heartfelt thanks to you for what you do in giving us a civilized venue to discuss Illinois issues and politics. I have learned so much over the last few years. I am also grateful for the debates and differing viewpoints from commenters. I learn more from people who hold different views and opinions than my own.

I too have been wondering about wordslinger.

Sincerely,
Steve

Comment by Steve Polite Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:31 pm
It is indeed your turf. Thank you for inviting us in.

Comment by thunderspirit Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:36 pm
This is forum is a gem in a field of dirt clods.

From the post content, moderated discussion, provided anonymity, to the personal opportunity to hone one’s argument and writing skills, this place is a bright spot in many of my days.

Three cheers for the Captain of Cap Fax!

Comment by cdog Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:39 pm
===What happened to Wordslinger?===

He appeared to take a break of some sort. I’ll let him explain. He’s been commenting lately in off hours.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:40 pm
“But that sort of investment doesn’t appear to be scalable for big media.”

I guess if forum moderation can’t be coded and thus automated, there isn’t enough ROI on a human doing it to spend the money. /s

Comment by cdog Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 12:45 pm
We all come from different places and intersect here. It ain’t a place for the feint of heart, but it ain’t a place for bombastic kooks either. I find myself more often than not in the minority here. I’d like to think its the “Loyal Minority” in the best sense of democracy. If partners think and act precisely the same way; there are too many partners. Keep it up.

Comment by A guy Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 1:13 pm
This is only one of a few sites where I read the comments, one of the others has heavily moderated comments by a one owner blog and the other deal with higher ed.

Comment by frayedcat Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 1:42 pm
The Tribune public comments section is a sewer and has been for some time.

Comment by Molly Maguire Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 1:48 pm
It is a great sandbox Rich. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into it.

Comment by frisbee Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 1:51 pm
There is a big difference between unleashing a hostile emotional rant and posting an interesting comment that is fueled by informed, sincere emotion. Rich’s careful monitoring and curating of his site is what keeps his “guests” successfully focused on that difference most of the time, and is what separates this one from most political comment sections. Kudos and thanks, Rich.

Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 1:53 pm
A list of banned words would be helpful.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 2:33 pm
Thank you for all that you do. Your blog is the best source for fair, unbiased and insightful political news in Illinois.

Comment by Trapped in the 'burbs Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 3:02 pm
might also be good to post the link to your comments on the words prohibited here. thanks for the forum.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 3:38 pm
There is no “list” of banned words. It is and remains Rich’s full discretion. The list is whatever he says it is given the context and circumstances. And it can change from day to day, or even thread to thread. There is only one judge and there is no appeal.

Follow the guidelines in the spirit of civil discourse and you can use almost any words you like (except profanity, this is a G-rated blog).

And remember: Rich’s mom is a reader. Write here as if your mom was reading your comment. If that doesn’t keep you civil, you deserve banishment.

Also, I get deleted as much or more than any regular comment. It is poor form to whine about it. I know why I’ve been deleted 99% of the time and I know it’s Rich’s call.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 3:59 pm
Thanks, rich, for maintaining a focused and highly informative blog. I come here for detailed explanations and background, and thats what i get. There is give and take. Not petulent name calling and BS.

Comment by Langhorne Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:02 pm
===There is no “list” of banned words===

Oh, yes there most certainly is.

And writing the initial list was a very bizarre experience. Had to come up with the nastiest words I could think of. It was looonnngggg. lol

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:06 pm
Is it published? How did I miss it? I thought those were a proprietary list of words that automatically trigger a hold on a comment, not necessarily a deletion.

And next time you should crowd-source the creation of the list. Would be fun for us and save some time and effort for you.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:14 pm
===Is it published?===

No. It’s probably banned in 15 states. Seriously, it’s nasty stuff.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:24 pm
==And next time you should crowd-source the creation of the list.==

I thought we did that a few months ago, regarding additions to the list.

Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:27 pm
I have said this before, but it is worth repeating.

This site is very special to all political junkies, like me. There is no better source to go to when wanting to learn about the good, bad and ugly in Illinois.

And the comments, or many of them, do add to ones understanding of the complexities and the dynamics of of our great state - warts and all.

I try to limit my comments to my “hot button” issues and hope I add to the quality of discourse.

Thank you, Rich, for creating this site and making it available to all of us.

Comment by illini Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 4:34 pm
Thank you Rich for your terrific reporting and for monitoring the comments. I can’t read them all but when I do I’m impressed with the mostly thoughtful contributions to the debate about our beloved state. Keep up the great work! And commenters: keep it up!

Comment by Kate from the Northwest side Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 9:19 pm
Thanks Rich for your hospitality and your personal contributions to the discussions here. As RNUG would surely agree, this is the best place for retired guys to hang out this side of a classic car show. RNUG and I might disagree on the favorite brand, though.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Sep 7, 16 @ 10:00 pm
What happened to Wordslinger?

Good to learn his absence is voluntary.

Hope he sees fit to return soon — I miss his insight and wit. (And MrsJM does too!)

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 8, 16 @ 8:43 am
Please do not shut down your comments. You do a great job of moderating and your readers add commentary that gives those of us up north a broader understanding of perceptions outside of the city. Thank you for your efforts in keeping the comments useful and for banning offenders.

Comment by Chicago Northside Thursday, Sep 8, 16 @ 11:26 am