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Unclear on the concepts

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Illinois

* From the Kankakee Daily Journal’s story on fraud and voter suppression allegations flying in that county…

Late last week, Kankakee County Clerk Bruce Clark said potential voters were being brought to the clerk’s office to vote early.

“Whoever it is should not be doing this,” he said. “People should be allowed to come in here and vote without being harassed.”

If Clerk Clark thinks bringing people to the polls to vote early is somehow fraudulent activity or “harassment,” then he needs to go back to election school.

* From another story on the topic…

The probe led Kankakee County to take drastic action: no more “I voted” stickers would be handed to voters. No more dinosaur handstamps either

Um, OK. But here’s what the state’s attorney actually said…

Effective immediately no “I voted” stickers will be issued to voters. This will end the practice of vote purchasers using the stickers as proof of voting.

That’s an all too common scam. They “buy” the stickers to avoid directly paying people to vote.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:42 am

Comments

incongruous, much?

Comment by wolf Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:44 am
Hope ClerkBruce gets hisself lawyered for the G visit. Should be very entertainin’
Guessin’ BigBrain has had his Telco gear wiped.

Comment by Annonin' Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:45 am
People were taking people to vote early …. and that is wrong why?

Comment by Spliff Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:46 am
The only missing from this story is the fact Floyd wouldn’t put up one of Barney’s campaign signs in his barber shop window.

Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:54 am
The stank of GOP voter suppression in Illinois is starting to become quite noticeable.

Here’s my prediction — a wild guess, really: the more money pours Rauner pours into the ILGOP from his wallet, the more the stank will increase.

Not saying Rauner himself is initiating this stuff — but my guess is that his surrogates are more than happy to do his silent bidding.

Comment by Bobby Catalpa Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:55 am
You know those ‘I voted’ stickers have no date on them, right? I have a bunch of them because I stick them on my cheap plastic shelves (along with innumerable election stickers). So the whole ‘buy stickers’ idea sounds like I could make some good money someplace. Ya think? /s

Comment by Not quite a majority Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:58 am
I hope the residents of Kankakee County are comfortable with paying the attorney’s fees for the ACLU. This can’t end well for the County.

Comment by Jon Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 10:59 am
Back in the day, when punch card ballots were still the norm, voters were issued a paper stub receipt which was torn off a perforated portion of the punch card as proof of voting. The ballots were color coded in the primaries, so the stub would also indicate which party primary someone voted in.
I remember some people would actually affix the stub to their coat lapels as proof that they had voted. This was when Mayor Harold Washington was in office and voting was an imperative in the community.

Chicago now issues voters a generic “I Voted!” paper receipt.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:02 am
===Late last week, Kankakee County Clerk Bruce Clark said potential voters were being brought to the clerk’s office to vote early.

“Whoever it is should not be doing this,” he said. “People should be allowed to come in here and vote without being harassed.”===

I’m confused. How are these voters being harassed exactly? By being organized and taken to vote early? That’s harassment?

Unending robocalls are harassment. Driving voters to the polls to early vote is a smart field organization.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:07 am
So let me understand this correctly. I am a Precinct Committeeman and one of my responsibilities is to get out the vote in my precinct for our candidates.

So, if one one of the residents in my precinct wants to vote but may not be able to make it to the polls it is presumed to be illegal for me to drive them to the County Clerks office to vote in person?

And, what if someone asks me to get them an absentee ballot, and this happens, am I supposed to turn them down and tell them I can’t help them.

Just asking.

Comment by illini Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:07 am
To all you GOP operatives, remember, you’ll be hung out to dry by those higher up the food chain. An Obama Justice Department is going to be succeeded by a Clinton one; she will have just as much incentive to pursue voter suppression as does the current POTUS.

You guys have learned nothing from what Pete Wilson did to the GOP in California. At the end of the day, hatin’ on minorities is all you seem to have (and consultants cashin’ the checks from marks like Rauner and Uihlein). So much for that party of ideas thing. Your problem goes way beyond Trump, he’s just the most vivid embodiment at the moment.

Comment by Moe Berg Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:14 am
The story is much less confusing if you understand that the Kankakee Clerk is talking about two different groups of potential voters, e.g.

Late last week, Kankakee County Clerk Bruce Clark said potential [adjective 1] voters were being brought to the clerk’s office to vote early.

“Whoever it is should not be doing this,” he said. “[Adjective 2] people should be allowed to come in here and vote without being harassed.”

As to what those adjectives might be, I couldn’t possibly speculate.

– MrJM

Comment by @MisterJayEm Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:27 am
===I couldn’t possibly speculate===

LOL.

I bet you could.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:27 am
I would be wary of quotes from the Daily Uninal. The are notorius for not listening to the interviewee and the storises are generally mere approximations of what was said. There seems to be little on the details of the harassment or fraud or offers or anything. It looks like there needs to be some real reporting done on this instead of a patch work of press releases and a quick call for comment from the editors desk at the Uninal.

Comment by simple mind Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:41 am
Anonymous at 11:02 brings back memories. when the punch card system first went into use, the Harold Washington types were afraid that “proof” would be required by “precinct captains” (the regulars/bad guys…in their opinion) in the form of the color stub.

which the Washington people then proudly displayed in 1987 on their lapels. and which some of us found quite ironic.

Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:42 am
Is there a group, possibly Lisa Madigan’s office, that we would trust to investigate the claims of vote buying and counter claims of voter suppression? I don’t like either vote buying or voter suppression, but also don’t trust the partisans to investigate.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:43 am
==Is there a group, possibly Lisa Madigan’s office, that we would trust to investigate the claims of vote buying and counter claims of voter suppression? I don’t like either vote buying or voter suppression, but also don’t trust the partisans to investigate.==

And what do you think Lisa Madigan is?

Comment by so... Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:52 am
Can someone explain to me how buying the I Voted sticker does anything at all to the election process. I vote, I get the receipt. I walk out of the polling place, someone gives me $5 for the piece of paper. How does that influence my vote in any way?

Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:55 am
I’ve read various versions of this story and am still at a loss as to what’s going on here. Is this story *really* about stickers???

Comment by Illinoisan Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:02 pm
It springs to mind; did the voters arrive in Republican buses, or Democrat buses?

Comment by Keyser Soze Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:03 pm
10 ILCS 5/17-8
“…If an election authority provides each polling place with stickers or emblems to be given to voters indicating that the person has voted, no person who has voted shall be denied such sticker or emblem.”

This story isn’t *really* about stickers, but STICKERS MATTER

Comment by m Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:06 pm
—-Can someone explain to me how buying the I Voted sticker does anything at all to the election process. I vote, I get the receipt. I walk out of the polling place, someone gives me $5 for the piece of paper. How does that influence my vote in any way?—–

I drop you off at the polls, tell you to vote for X, then tell you that Ill buy a sticker from you after you get done voting, you come back in the bus, I give you $50 for a sticker…

You don’t see the rouse here? Or do you not want to see it?

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:13 pm
===I drop you off at the polls, tell you to vote for X===

If you’re transporting people from high-D (or high-R) precincts, there’s no need to tell anyone who to vote for.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:15 pm
so

I recognize that Lisa Madigan is a Democrat. Happen to think she is more fair than partisan.

Would welcome your suggestion as to what group could be somewhat trusted.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:17 pm
I am confused. Wasn’t there a story not long after last election of someones campaign giving gift cards for votes. Why is this now an issue to drive them to vote? Even if the pay them is it cause it’s cash and not a shiny new gift card?

Comment by Union thug Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:53 pm
I seem to remember that there was some controversy around the Rauner campaign passing out gift cards for votes.

Comment by Seymourkid Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 12:57 pm
Presumably they’re not following people in to the voting booth and people can still vote for whoever they want to - in private.

Comment by NoGifts Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 1:08 pm
>So let me understand this correctly. I am a Precinct Committeeman and one of my responsibilities is to get out the vote in my precinct for our candidates.

>So, if one one of the residents in my precinct wants to vote but may not be able to make it to the polls it is presumed to be illegal for me to drive them to the County Clerks office to vote in person?

The law is that you can wrap that voter in brown paper and send them to the early voting site via US Postal Service or another authorized public mail carrier.

Comment by some doofus Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 1:13 pm
I’m shocked the ads haven’t dropped yet against Cloonen. This is seems pretty weak and obviously political.

Comment by Dee Lay Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 1:20 pm
— The law is that you can wrap that voter in brown paper and send them to the early voting site via US Postal Service or another authorized public mail carrier. —

This is not even good snark - oh, sorry, were you serious?

Comment by illini Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 1:59 pm
===I vote, I get the receipt. I walk out of the polling place, someone gives me $5 for the piece of paper. How does that influence my vote in any way?

It’s more than that–you get a visit beforehand and told if you vote you get money. If you do this in an African-AMerican neighborhood which votes 90% Democratic I think the logic becomes clear. This is one of the uses of walking around money which has been reduced over time, but is not gone. You cannot offer any remuneration to get someone to vote whether it be $10 bucks or a cigarette or a pack of cigarettes or in the old days a chicken.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:20 pm
=== last election of someones campaign giving gift cards for votes.

Any remuneration is illegal including gift cards

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:21 pm
===giving gift cards for votes===

Never saw that allegation made. Either post a link or drop it.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:23 pm
The gift card story I seem to remember (and sorry I don’t have a link Rich) was not about gift cards for votes, but gift cards for those who were recruiting voters. That is a very different case and generally legal.

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:26 pm
Found it and I think it is what I described:
http://www.sj-r.com/article/20150723/NEWS/150729756

There were allegations in a school board race reported by Breitbart, but I didn’t see any mainstream coverage

Comment by ArchPundit Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:30 pm
You don’t see the rouse here? Or do you not want to see it?

Except unless you come in the voting booth with me, you have no idea what you are paying for.

Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 2:49 pm
>This is not even good snark - oh, sorry, were you serious?

It’s a reference to the election code, which used to carry those words for return of mail ballots - they could only be returned by a relative or by US Mail or another authorized public carrier.

Alas, good jokes depend on knowing that your audience will catch the reference. It must sound pretty odd if you don’t know the reference.

Comment by some doofus Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 3:33 pm
Sorry Doofus - I know very well about the mail ballot - my comment was referencing individuals I might happen to drive to the Court House to vote.

Did not catch the reference in this context since that was not to my point. Sorry.

Comment by illini Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 3:46 pm
I think any misunderstanding is worth it for the chance to see the words “Sorry Doofus” written in earnest. Hilarious!

Comment by some doofus Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 4:00 pm
Link about gift cards

https://capitolfax.com/2015/07/23/rauners-gotv-gift-cards/

Comment by Seymourkid Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 4:04 pm
There was no record of who got the gift cards, so there was no way to be sure what they were used for.

Comment by Seymourkid Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 4:06 pm
Why would anyone take people to polls? It could have something to do with Bruce Clark refusing to put early voting locations in other location but his office.

The same way he decides to reduce the number of voting places/booths in African-American communities, especially those that are no where near Brucey boys office. Like Hopkins Park, Pembroke, which are 93% African-Americans and are located 17 and 20 miles from the only early voting location right now in Kankakee County until October 26th. But then Brucey opens up 2 other early voting locations; 1 in Bourbonnais (77% Caucasian - Republican), and 1 in Manteno on the 31st of Oct (92% Caucasian - Republican).

But there’s nothing to see in Kankakee County… just keep moving on. Kankakee County Republicans - just trying to keep pace with Mississippi.

Comment by Watching_Bruce Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 4:24 pm
There’s also the fact that Manteno Twp has 11,000 people. Pembroke Twp. has only 2,000 people and no full service grocer, meaning most most households, have to find a way into Kankakee most weeks. Is there a county that provides early voting for an individual precinct in a rural part of the county?

Comment by lieber Wednesday, Oct 5, 16 @ 11:32 pm